Micro 11: Mostly Normal Micro (Day 4)

Mr_Ree · Post Post #10 (isolation #0) » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:39 am

Vote Luckyjt

( can't have lucky Mafia now can we...) although he did vote for Sal, a very common name in Mafia movies...

Mr_Ree · Post Post #50 (isolation #1) » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:00 am

If anyone is over explaining their position, it's you Bud. Lucky's flippant response tells me that he really wasn't too concerned with the whole situation. If anything I'm getting a weak town read off him.

I have been wondering (from the very first post) if Sal and DJD would end up tunneling on each other but I am glad to see that's not the case. Post 39 is interesting and may warrant a Meta. Seems a little scummy to me to go so far as to call anyone town at this point in the game, especially when it's someone you know is going to be watching you closely. Like I said, I have to do a meta on this rivalry thing before I form any solid opinions.

/phonepost

Mr_Ree · Post Post #51 (isolation #2) » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:39 am

unvote: Lucky, vote: Bud

Now that we are getting to know each other a little bit better, it's time for a little RQS..

1. What timezone do you live in? (EST)
2. Do you consider yourself an investigator or an analyzer? Ie. Do you actively ask questions in order to draw out scum or do you sit back and analyse everything that is said? (Personally I prefer to analyse because that is where my strengths are but I feel that the key to winning is to investigate and be actively asking questions. I will expand more on this when I've heard from everyone else.)
3. What was your first impression of Sal's first post and Djd's eventual proclamation that Sal is town? (I believe I answered this in my previous post)

Mr_Ree · Post Post #54 (isolation #3) » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:45 am

You are correct good sir, I thought I was placing him at L-2.

UNVOTE: Bud.

I don't want this day to end too fast. I still have some questions to ask.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #66 (isolation #4) » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:05 am

It was all about question 3 anyways. The first was to figure out when the thread will be active most, so I know when to head home to the desktop. Long phoneposts suck. The second was to get an idea what everyone's play style is since most of you know each other from previous games and I seem to be the odd man out.

See... (non)random questions aren't useless afterall

I called DJD's post scummy, not because of the town read, because of the conviction to it. He didn't say he had a town read, he said that he IS town. Big difference, especially at this point in the game.

P-edit: @DJD: I am at a loss to know how timezone helps scum. Please explain. Your reasoning on Sal makes
more sense now. It didn't at the time. A two game Meta still isn't proof positive but now at least I understand it. As far as the unvote goes, it was to allow for stupidity. I am certainly ready to vote him, I'm just not ready to end the day yet.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #68 (isolation #5) » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:23 am

You've played as scum, I haven't on this site. Could you talk during the day phase? How did it help when people were on and offline?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #72 (isolation #6) » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:43 pm

So many lurkers... Why did everyone stop posting? Things are just getting good.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #87 (isolation #7) » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:25 am

I will post my reads after work. Should be around 10ish EST but it may be later if I get a visit from my gf. Can't post much at work but I will try to skim if people have questions. Still want to hear more from zeb and it would be nice to get a vote from Lucky.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #98 (isolation #8) » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:14 pm

Can't post now, game night with the girlfriend and neighbors. Most of you think I'm scummy but aren't willing to vote... What am I, Mr. Rogers? Use your votes people. Just don't hammer until after I post my reads. If you think I'm Mafia, you may as well learn something from my Lynch.

P-edit. No it's not... BTW, I find it odd that you unvoted considering bud is in no danger of being lynched and is one of your scum leads...

P-edit 2 LOL

Mr_Ree · Post Post #100 (isolation #9) » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:22 pm

Noon-4. Can try earlier but no promises. Hard to do reads from my phone.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #106 (isolation #10) » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:33 am

borkjerfkin

Bork was fast to jump on a bandwagon just to see where it goes. Once he has his first town read, he placed his vote with them, for no apparent reason at the time. In post #47 he asks some decent questions, shows some good scumhunting and justifies his earlier "lets see where this goes". In post #60, he completely ignores the main point of my question, what his feeling were on DJD giving Sal a golden townie ticket. Was it just to keep Salamence from looking too closely at him? Why did you say (in post 79) I had an early town read on DJD? I said no such thing. In fact I have been watching both him and Salamece closely since the very start of the game. Did I denounce him? I don't remember doing that at all. I did ask what people's thoughts were on Sal and DJD's interactions and how they felt about DJD proclaiming Sal as "Town!".

Null read here but only because of reads on each side of the scale

Bub Bidderskins

Bub gave a strange reaction to Lucky in post #21 by voting for him stating "...and felt the need to justify his actions. This feels like scum defensiveness to me." There was not a single hint of defensiveness in that post. Lucky more or less shrugged it off with a joke. In post #46 he addmitted that his vote on Lucky was a reach to get out of RVS but then tried to justify it by saying that he felt Lucky was scummy for over-explaining himself...with a joke... Lucky was asked for an explaination to his RVS, he gave a pretty standard response. I see no over-explaining here. That was reaching at it's finest. Again, complete avoidance of the original purpose of question 3, why does nobody see a golden ticket on page 3 as strange?

I'm still leaning scum here

DoubleJD

How did nobody else think that post #39 was not strange? He doesn't say leaning town, or probably town, he said "I label you as town!" If he is town, there are only 3 people playing that would know that for sure, Salamence, and the two mafia. It is too definitive a response and it doesn't leave room for interpretation, even if there is something more to the Meta that I'm just not seeing. People tend to play differently in each round as they grow and evolve as a playe r. When asked what his feelings were on Lucky, he waved them off with a.... Pokemon defense? Come on, it was a serious question. Even knowing that my third question wasn't RQS, he refused to answer it or even comment on it. A golden townie ticket is not something to hand out lightly, even with a two game meta. It's simply too early in the game for that. Like I said, he could have learned from past mistakes and simply changed his playstyle. A vote for me for not keeping him at L-1 on page three is strange. I had missed DJD's vote on page 2 when I did my vote count. Someone just skimming the thread could have agreed with me and hammered - even accidently. Too early to end the day just yet. Next is the whole timezone thing and how it benefits scum, doesn't everyone benefit from knowing when people are on? Isn't it more condusive to a good discussion? The switch to me with weak reasons he is unwilling to elaborate on (call it OMGUS if you want) is strange to me because it seems to be over 1. Not wanting someone to be in a hammer position yet and 2. RQS, namely the timezone thing (I think). The only reason the timezone thing would help (according to others) is with a quickhammer, which makes his point 1. moot because by unvoting, I prevented that.

I'm going to give the new guy a chance but this seems like it could be a scum slot to me.

Luckyjt

After giving a nonchalant response to questions regarding his vote in RVS, Lucky seemed fairly townie. Post #48 is more or less a townie post. Also, Happy Belated Lucky

Hard to get a good read here but looking townish so far.

Mehdi2277

Mehdi went to a lot of effort to see what people thought of Lucky. Normally when people file somebody as leaning town, they move on to a new target (the whole point of scumhunting). As far as following DJD's lead on voting me, it is pretty much null, more to add pressure than because he actually agreed with DJD. I'm still curious why Bub was given town cred since Mehdi was quick to hop on that wagon. The explaination in #90 said hitting L-1 early in the game gave him town cred, I dissagree with this but the reaction test made sense.

Good investigating and a lot of healthy questioning places Mehdi as leaning town.

ProsecutorGodot

I'm seeing some good questions coming from Godot. Post #52 is exactly what I needed to get a good read on him. I don't think Scum would point out that I accidently put him at L-1. There is the slight issue of mixing up games. If there is in fact no night kill for the first two nights, we should seriously think about getting rid of Godot. All in all,

I'm pretty sure he's town.

Salamence20

It really looked like Salamence was going to be tunnelling on DJD. His first post said as much (although it was in RVS, it was in no way random, but it was quite null considering it was the very first game post) Post #31 said he was still keeping a close eye on DJD "Exactely, so someone explain why Lucky's vote on me is more scummy than DJD's vote."
He did seem to overreact to some of his early votes though (post #31)

All in all, I'd say Salamence is leaning town.

zabriel

Fluff, Pokemon, Fluff. For an analyzer, I'm not seeing anything analytical. Try asking more questions, you may have better luck with that. Post #88 is a defining post, one that people can actually start to get a read on, yet he does something funny with it too, he said his top two suspects were Bub and I, yet he went ahead and unvoted Bub, even though Bub was in no danger whatsoever at that point. It would have been less scummy leaving his vote there or hopping on my wagon.

Leaning scum but more info and explaination required for a good read.

My top three choices for scum are DJD, Bub and Zabriel, in that order. There has to be at LEAST one in that list.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #110 (isolation #11) » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:15 am

VOTE: DJD I'm going to leave my vote here until I hear more from the new guy. Too much question avoidance for my liking.

My reason for question 2 was not to create a situation where I could lynch those that go against thier regular playstyle, it was because GreyICE once said:

"A few people see themselves as town movers and shakers, who push lynches and organize towns. Some see themselves as advisors, who identify town movers, and help them while suggesting things to them and working with them. Some just play as analysts, making posts about what they think is townie and scummy without doing a great deal to move their chosen scumreads forward, letting other townies carry the standard. Some like being the town bulldog, who pushes players and questions them, puts pressure on them and calls for wagons. Some like identifying townies, and working with them, building a coalition of sorts. Some like being the 'what if' guy, the devil's advocate, and challenging people on their reads.

What usually can kill towns, and what has done in more newbies than I can count is when townies see their role as an

observational

role rather than an

investigative

role. (and I am not talking about night actions). Floating along waiting for something to happen is what sinks towns, as eventually the threshold for 'something' declines to the point where spurious lynches are generated without the scum having to even work for it."

I completely agree with this statement. When I asked the question, too many people were just lurking, thier name would pop up at the bottom of the thread under users viewing this forum, but nobody was posting. I'd like to see a good game where EVERYONE takes on the role of investigating. Analyzing helps but only when used in conjunction with proper investigation. Be active, have fun. It's only a game but that doesn't mean I don't intend to win.

P-edit: @ zabriel It wasn't doing any harm either, considering he was one of your leads. If you are that confident I'm scum, then place your vote on me. Don't just take your vote off completely to FOS the two people you want to vote for. That last post moved you into null but only because of the last line.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #112 (isolation #12) » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:22 am

Salamence is town because I have DJD as scum. The only reason I can see for DJD to give Sal a golden ticket was to keep him off his back. Right now that's my main focal point to this game. WHY WAS HE SO SURE??? Even with the answer about the 2 game Meta, it still bugs the crap out of me. Like I said, there are only three people playing that know each townies alignment for sure, the player themselves, and the two mafia.

P-Edit: I was lol. It did sound forced but was more or less the response I was looking for. I didn't say he was town, I said he was null.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #118 (isolation #13) » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:50 am

If multiple people are thinking along the same lines, it's not parroting, it's a reason to look closer.

As far as misinterpretations go, I may have misinterpreted what you said Bork, but that was my genuine impression of what you said. Place a comma after DJD and try re-reading it. I believe I have stated multiple times that the semantics in DJD's read bugged me, not the read itself. It appears to have sparked something in Salamence as well, who has a good Meta to go off. I'm on to something here. Why do you disagree with it so much? Why do you seem to be protecting DJD?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #124 (isolation #14) » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:04 am

I don't expect you to sheep anyone. Sheeping doesn't help anyone. I have him as probably mafia, if based on nothing other than the sheer amount of scumreads I have from others..... your point? Does anyone else feel my case on him is bad? Has he been avoiding other people's questions? Oh wait.... he has. Did he not hand out a golden ticket? oh wait.... he did. Did he have good reason to hand out a golden ticket instead of just giving a read? THAT is what I'd like to know.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #132 (isolation #15) » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:40 am

In post 125, borkjerfkin wrote:@Sala:
You should've just said meta, then.

Meta is more useful when you can prove similarities rather than differences. Link me to a scum game and show how he's been behaving similarly.

@Ree: You're acting like him calling Sala town is some
sort of Innocent-child-like authoritative claim
. It's still just an opinion, and hardly a "golden ticket". I don't understand how someone who isn't trying to misdirect us doesn't understand that.

Please elaborate on the bolded section or say it in a different way. It makes no sense to me in it's current format. How was it not a golden ticket? Why are you so concerned with how I read it when you are currently voting for Mehdi? How does what Salamence just said not throw up any red flags to you? Sal just used his meta to say that DJD would "NEVER" proclaim Salamence as town so why does it still bother you? Are you trying to help DJD out? That's kinda what it's looking like to me... and I don't understand how someone who isn't trying to misdirect us doesn't understand that.

P-Edit: I would like to press the replacement. They will never have the answers I want but I would like to see something from them nonetheless. That slot feels scummy to me and I don't care if nobody else sees it. I told you I would give you something before you went ahead with any hammer votes on me. This is what I'm giving you. Even if you lynch me now, at least you have something to work with tomorrow. If you decide not to, form your own opinions, don't critisize mine for being different (or similar??? (bork)) from everyone elses.

I don't want sheep. I want investigations and opinions from everyone, not just the self proclaimed investigators.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #133 (isolation #16) » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:52 am

Going mobile soon, within the half hour. I'm not going to make long responses from my phone so if I say I'll answer something later, it's because I have too much to say on the topic. I'll try to answer everything but scrolling within the text window on my android requires a lot of effort and heavy use of the enter key. I'll get to any of those questions tomorrow.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #136 (isolation #17) » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:31 am

Welcome to the game Johhog!

Mr_Ree · Post Post #142 (isolation #18) » Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:37 pm

@ lucky, you did miss something. My question 3 hinted at my suspicions. My follow up questions to the timezone thing were leaning on him, Check posts 66 and 68. He even said his own argument was void if scum have daytalk or whatever.

He said his argument may be void. Part of the argument which caused him to vote for me could be void BUT he was too lazy to check. Other people said that the only way it could help scum is to help quickhammer. I believe that I showed I was against that BEFORE I was accused. He replaced out without fully answering any of my questions. Any of them. He said most of my questions were scummy. What is scummy to you, asking questions OR avoiding them to suit your needs, followed by calling them scummy because you don't want to answer them?

P-edit: exactly.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #145 (isolation #19) » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:08 pm

Fair enough since I disagree with many other points that have been made about others. I STILL have that spot down as a scum slot even though my current read on Johhog is null for lack of content. BTW, How long does does it normally take to read through 6 pages? It's a null question IMO because RL>mafia but still.... I need a read that isn't DJD.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #148 (isolation #20) » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:15 am

Don't worry about it, I'm not. RL>MAFIA.

I will be stuck at work for most of the day but. Will try to make the occasional phone post.

ISO me Lucky. I was focusing on him quite a bit even before he replaced.
[

Mr_Ree · Post Post #151 (isolation #21) » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:23 am

LOL. I like your train of though but would it really make sense for scum to skip 2 night kills just to get you? How does that help them? Not that I would really mind too much if they did try that. Two free days without a nk would be freaking awesome. What you did just there creates a wifom situation which results in my death tomorrow if the nightkill gets roleblocked or refused. It was far less likely that there would be no kills for 2 days.

You, my friend, are starting to sound scummy...

Mr_Ree · Post Post #154 (isolation #22) » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:01 am

Wait a sec.... did you just say you like godot's last post on me?

I think I'm going to have to do another read post before the day is over.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #162 (isolation #23) » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:56 am

It may not be likely but it is possible. Just not as possible as a one night no kill. The only reason it would be sensible is if there are no night kills AND there is no other reason for it (jk, etc). Why would it be sensible to Lynch me tommorrow if there is no night kill tonight? We would have no reason for a jailkeeper to claim on day 2 but day 3 we might. No reason to draw out power roles day 2 at all unless we are seriously mislynching. Do you not agree?

P-edit it says Salamence is town BECAUSE I have DJD as scum. That can change with a few posts from Johhog and is reliant on the fact that DJD was giving sal a golden ticket to keep him off his back.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #164 (isolation #24) » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:28 pm

No I didn't give anyone a ticket. I gave a reason why I have Salamence as town des pite having him in my read post as showing signs of scummyness. There is a difference, in fact, a major difference. I did not proclaim his as town. Look at the post I was answering and use it in context. Stop reaching.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #172 (isolation #25) » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:58 pm

In post 126, Mehdi2277 wrote:I still have djd as a null read (it's the main reason why I made that last post since right now he isn't town to me). Currently I want to say one scum is in my 3 null reads (djd, bork, or zab) although ree is starting to become null here for me (which makes it two scum out of those 4 assuming my reads are right).

So is this townhunting, scumhunting or nullhunting? This was your most current read post, correct?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #174 (isolation #26) » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:31 pm

Considering the fact that earlier in the game you were quite interested in finding out which way people leaned (I just don't want a null answer) it's odd that you would group half the playerbase as null. Shouldn't you simply have 2 groups? Leaning town and leaning scum. It's over 150 posts into the day. Isn't that a little late in the day to have completely null reads?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #178 (isolation #27) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:14 am

Seven of those 15 hours have already passed. Doesn't look like we'll have Johhog past today. It says bub is Vla until September 20th. To top that off, we haven't heard from Salamence in almost 2 days.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #193 (isolation #28) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:18 pm

Oh wow. What have we got here? Our missing players have returned with a vengeance! Great text walls people. I can't quote those things at all from this phone. I still say that DJD seemed scummy to me at the time. Fortunately I don't feel the same about Johhog. I think I have a good enough read here to

unvote JOHHOG

I'll post some comments regarding the text walls tomorrow. For tonight, I'm confined to my phone.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #199 (isolation #29) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:31 am

@ Mendi I honestly have no idea why I chose the word fortunately. That is just where my brain went. It was a quick phone post and I didn't put any thought into it besides my unvote. I had my reasons for voting djd but since I can't get anymore info out of him, my vote was left on that slot to pressure test it. I see more town than scum in his first and second wall post, hence my unvote. Now I need to reevaluate my earlier reads.

BTW, You stated that several minor things made me seem scummy. What exactly are those things? You appear to be conceding points and contradicting yourself quite frequently. Why is my focus on the DJD slot different from Johhog's focus on Salamence? Since (as you say) connecting yourself to another player (by making a case against them) is townie motivated.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #202 (isolation #30) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:45 am

So you think that me keeping bub in a hammer position would have been more town? 3 pages into day 1? Where anyone reading my argument could have agreed with me and ended the day sans information? You say I gave sal a golden ticket as well yet you ignored the fact that my reads were mutually exclusive. I was basically saying that IF that was DJDs intent to keep sal from tunnelling him (which is not that far fetched) then that would mean sal is probably town. As for the night kill debate, blame that on Godot. He's the one who brought it up again. I mentioned it in my read post because I saw it as a scum slip. I was too lazy at the time to check his other games. Sound familiar? As in last page familiar? I can't wait to get to a proper computer and point out some contradictory statements. It's townie to do this but not when this person does it. Why? Because I have a null read on them. Lol

Mr_Ree · Post Post #204 (isolation #31) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:58 am

I voted him because he was obviously reaching. He admitted as much. I'm fine with voting someone I have reason to vote for. What I'm not fine with is ending the day on page fucking 3. How the hell does that help anyone?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #214 (isolation #32) » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:55 am

So in effect, you would rather have a scum lynched on day 3 then page 25 BUT, you are OK with lynching someone you think is town on page 3? This makes no sense. You think it was fine to hammer someone for reaching that early?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #217 (isolation #33) » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:26 am

Also: Don't chop my posts to make me say things out of context. Most are short enough that you can easily quote the whole thing. There is no townie motivation to chop posts. It usually just edits out the main point of the post and changes the meaning.

You think I'm trying to sound inquisitive? Is that what you picked up off a snippet of my post? Did you happen to read this page or just skim it? I'm pretty sure Johhog, Godot and myself have all said (in the last 2 pages) the reason a quicklynch on day 1 is bad. We have better luck looking at interactions day 1 when we have ALL the players together than in any other day. I'm not saying I wouldn't love to Lynch scum today. I'm saying. We need more information before we Lynch scum today and so we can be sure we Lynch scum today.

Does this make sense the fourth time around or should we get someone else to explain it again?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #218 (isolation #34) » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:30 am

Where did I get that from? Your town read on bub. If he did get lynched, you believe he would flip town. Is that not correct? That means we would have lynched town on page 3, not Mafia.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #219 (isolation #35) » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:38 am

EBWOTP pretty WIFOM right? So is your idea that we were sure we were lynching scum. So is your idea that we will end up lynching town because we investigated too much.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #228 (isolation #36) » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:55 am

Ahh OK I get it now. You seem to be ignoring what I am saying and dissecting it to the point where I'm saying something completely different. If you want me to clarify something for you, just ask. What I said in post 217 was exactly my point ALL ALONG. Why don't.people get that? Now you are further dissecting it to tell me my own point isn't what I meant?

218 and 219 were pretty clear to me. Add enough wifom and you can turn things into whatever you want.

For your reiteration, all I have to say is: No shit. But we didn't have him dead to rights did we? We had him reaching. Enough for a vote but not enough for a mistaken quickhammer. Now answer me this, how does a series of townslips possibly lead to a lynching?

P-edit. Damn I started writting this too long ago.

@Salamence, no it just increases the possibility that he is scum. Personally, based on my earlier impressions of what djd could have been trying to do, I think it could be very likely.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #232 (isolation #37) » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:10 am

Ahh I see. OK. Yes I agree with that. It doesn't nesessarily work all the time though. Check out my Mafia in Canada game. In the end we all had Nacho pegged as town and it almost lost us the game.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #236 (isolation #38) » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:58 am

I have to disagree. If you ISO him you can follow his thought process. He is the epitome of analyzer logic. He has been posting his top 2 leads with every second post. He even posted his townie reads on his read post. Yes, I agree he is playing cautiously but with more townie motivation than scum motivation. He seems more worried about figuring out who the scum actually are then in hiding anything.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #242 (isolation #39) » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:46 pm

^ agreed. It would really mess with the game mechanics to only have 1.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #249 (isolation #40) » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:08 pm

Can you explain your reads a little better lucky? How did you arrive at that scum team?

@Salamence: if Johhog was lynched and flipped town, who would you go after? If he flipped scum, who would make your list then?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #262 (isolation #41) » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:52 pm

@mod. Can we get a votecount?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #264 (isolation #42) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:46 am

You didn't sheep but your reads come from everyone else?

Lynch all liars. HOS Lucky.

Don't even think about ending the day until we hear something more from Joh.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #274 (isolation #43) » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:06 pm

In post 266, borkjerfkin wrote:You realize that at this point this is going to be less about who is scum and more about who's better at arguing, right?

I'm hoping that's not the case. Let's get this day rolling. I've been thinking more about PoE. That's. A good enough place to start.

Not including yourself, who are your top two candidates for town? I have Godot as a top townie candidate and zab as a runner up. I'm starting to lean lucky for lynching due to the panic posts. Ignoring spelling and grammar is a sign that he was in a rush to get those posts out. It was pretty consistent until he came under the gun.

vote lucky

Everyone, same question. Which two players stand out as probably town?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #281 (isolation #44) » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:30 am

Now things are coming together. If I use quantitative methods to determine who has the highest probability of being scum/town based on everyone's reads, is anyone able to double check my work? We can win this with math!

P-edit: Gambit?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #283 (isolation #45) » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:40 am

Why definitely?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #286 (isolation #46) » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:25 am

I'm voting him now but I'm not so sure he's just bored town. Tbh my vote was more to add pressure than because he was my top scum read. With his last post, I feel comfortable leaving it there.

What are your top 2 reads for town?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #288 (isolation #47) » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:57 am

Still need to hear from Salamence regarding his town reads but it's looking like we can narrow the scum pool to a few common players. I hope this works out the way I think it will.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #322 (isolation #48) » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:03 am

Look at the two wagons we have running. The more townie looking players are voting lucky and the more scummy looking players are voting zab. I'm still wondering about lucky though. I'm a sucker for AtE but I also know that Lucky is no noob when it comes to Mafia. I'm just not sure if he's playing expertly or if his head is just not in the game. Panic post, followed by a gambit, followed by a VT claim, followed by a VI AtE. I just don't buy the VI act. I know he may be newer to this forum but he's been playing on two other sites for quite some time. The roles on those site make everyone PRs which makes the game considerably easier though. I must admit I'm torn but VI just doesn't add up.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #331 (isolation #49) » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:46 pm

I'm not opposed to the idea either. I don't think Mehdi made anyone's town list but correct me if I'm wrong on that. We have to remember though that there are (or should be) 2 Mafia out there. I have to believe that they wouldn't both be the same wagon but my main scum targets were all on Zabs wagon. If we choose to give Lucky a pass this time, Mehdi is the next best choice.
Intent to hammer. There are some things I'd like to check first though.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #333 (isolation #50) » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:41 pm

You're wrong on that one. You are at L-1...

vote Mehdi

Mr_Ree · Post Post #335 (isolation #51) » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:51 pm

I checked the vote count to make sure before I voted. You are NOW at L-1.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #339 (isolation #52) » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:17 pm

/facepalm.

unvote

Mr_Ree · Post Post #341 (isolation #53) » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:24 pm

EBWOP: He said Jailer. Not jailkeeper. I've been a jailkeeper before. My role in Mafia in Canada (over) was Jailkeeper. I don't know if our mod would have written it differently...

Damn. Thoughts anyone?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #344 (isolation #54) » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:55 pm

I'm throwing all my current reads out the window. At this point I'm pretty sure Godot and Zabriel are town. Even with claims I'm still not sure about you or Lucky. You were both my top 2 scum leads. My first step is going to be going back and rereading the thread.

If anyone is planning a CC, DON'T!!

P-edit : How could I not jump off the wagon with a jk claim?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #349 (isolation #55) » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:15 pm

Lucky claimed VT. You claimed jailer, which still leaves room for Mafia roleblocker. BOTH of you COULD still be scum but still..

I'd rather not have a counter claim. If there is a real jk then they could just spam you. If we have a cop, they can check you tonight. Either way I'd rather not have any more PR claims on day 1.

P-edit see above

Mr_Ree · Post Post #352 (isolation #56) » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:07 pm

It's a horrible idea to reveal our PRs on day 1. Just freaking horrible. Mafia knows who is town. Townies do not have that advantage. Power roles tip the scales. PR claims are death sentences on day 1. Even a counter claim would be suicide.

I completely agree that a VT claim is null. Where did I say I didn't?

Zab is probably town as far as my reads go. He seems to be buddying me but he started at the worst possible time. I see it as null but I'm open to interpretations His posts seem pretty transparent and easy to follow. His thought process mimics my own. I'm just not seeing what you guys are seeing. At this point in the game, he's probably my second last choice for the chopping block.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #357 (isolation #57) » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:50 am

First sentence post 259, first sentence post 263.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #358 (isolation #58) » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:03 am

And yes, it looks like deadline is fast approaching.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #360 (isolation #59) » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:05 am

Scummy in the fact that he's not really contributing much to the game. For someone who is ALWAYS online, he is not posting nearly enough. His reads are few and far between due to the fact that he has mainly been tunnelling 2 or 3 players.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #364 (isolation #60) » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:47 am

This ^

I don't know how many times I've iso'd him...

Mr_Ree · Post Post #392 (isolation #61) » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:05 am

If we assume there was one scum on each wagon, the only survivor from Zab's is Lucky. Lucky, can you give your reasons again on why you felt Zab was the most viable scum target? Point by point would help.

To those of you on the Salamence wagon who said they thought the argument between Sal and Johhog sounded like town on town, what made you change your mind? Lack of activity, an abundance of ignorance or just general mistrust?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #394 (isolation #62) » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:37 pm

What were you expecting to happen? Didn't you call this?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #402 (isolation #63) » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:23 am

Only so many people can fit on a wagon. If you look back, I wasn't around for hammer time (which happened early morning). Meanwhile, I was on late the night before. I know for a fact that I'm not scum so why does it hurt anyone to focus on the wagons? Considering how many people were saying town vs. Town, Sal's Lynch went ridiculously fast. What we should do today is focus on that wagon and figure out who was in control at the time. I find it hard to believe that it was purely town on him.

Gotta admit I may have been blinded to the possibility of Zab-scum. His first post of the day gave me all sorts of bad vibes. I'm definitely ready to hear what Lucky has been seeing up until now.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #408 (isolation #64) » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:29 pm

In post 380, zabriel wrote:You're suspicious because I haven't defended myself? Well honestly, I am not really concerned about the wagon on me. I wasn't concerned at L-1, I'm not concerned now.

Salamance has done some shady things. I think he's a good lynch. If he flips town, then we have to reevaluate. We work from what he said and what was said about him. If he flips scum, so much the better.

If Salamance flips scum, that means we probably have only one scum left (since that seems to make the most sense for balance).
If our jailer is being honest, chances are he won't make it through the night since PRs are like tasty, tasty candy to scum.
I'd suggest that he choose his night target in thread so that we can check somebody off as conf-town if he dies tonight, or possible scum if nobody dies. If we don't lynch scum today, he shouldn't feel bound to his in-thread choice and should do what he feels most appropriate and we'll see what happens in the morning.

What happened to this Zab? It was a perfectly logical course of thought. Your very first line of the day was "Of all the possible ways the night could have turned out, that was not what I saw happening." It sounds like you were deflecting. How did you not see any possible way that a claimed townie jail keeper would not survive the night? Why would your play style as scum affect the nightkills in this game?

@ Bork, I was with it in spirit. I just wanted to hear more from certain players before it actually went down. Now that I see the flip, I'm wondering if my original thoughts on DJD may have had some merit. I'm just not hearing enough from Johhog to form a solid opinion yet.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #415 (isolation #65) » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:49 pm

I seriously want to hear cases from Johhog. Both on his town reads and his scum reads. Through some pretty extensive iso'ing I think I have the scum team pegged. Cases coming later in the day, I just need to hear from a few people first.

@Godot, bub and bork: care to do a town to scum list for us?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #416 (isolation #66) » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:54 pm

@ Lucky. Did sals flip change any of your reads? Did it come as much surprise? Who would Zab's partner be according to your most current reads?

@ Bub both wagons should be looked at. I was more on Sal's wagon than Zab's. I was pretty sure Zab was town yesterday.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #421 (isolation #67) » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:17 am

Maybe maybe not. You have three townreads and three scum leads. I want cases or at least some measure of explanation as to why they are there. You can't have 3 people sitting in your scum pile for no reason. Especially when you say you aren't picking up any scum vibes off anyone. I've been watching your play. Since your initial wall, all you've posed is these are my reads, be back soon. This isn't scumhunting and has no benefit to town.

Do Zab's posts today make you see him in a different light? Is he still your top choice for town?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #426 (isolation #68) » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:31 pm

Ummm... didn't I flat out say that I wasn't ready for it to happen yet?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #429 (isolation #69) » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:45 am

Yeah but we were still waiting on more from lucky, Joh and Mehdi.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #430 (isolation #70) » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:48 am

vote Johhog

I might as well put this here now. I doubt there's anything he can say that will change my mind.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #434 (isolation #71) » Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:32 pm

Your last post pretty much covered it. You are asking for questions while avoiding them at the same time. You've been topping my list for a while now. You gave it a quick start but since then you have been coasting. Just enough content to stay in the game without having to play it. General malaise doesn't really cover it. Convenient how you noticed my vote right away but chose to ignore the content in between. Like I said, I've figured out the scum team. You are step 1.

TOWN. Bork Godot Bub Lucky Zab Johhog SCUM

Mr_Ree · Post Post #438 (isolation #72) » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:01 am

I'm always more aggressive day 2. Just wait until day 3.

Still no town or scum cases aside from a repost from 1/3 through day 1. Yeah.... post something real so I can make my case on you. You said you caught me in a contradiction? Why not try pointing out what that contradiction is. You know, actually play the game.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #440 (isolation #73) » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:13 am

I have been reading the thread. What I've noticed is a severe lack of content unless you are being voted or FOS. Post your case. At least now I'm getting an effort out of you.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #442 (isolation #74) » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:34 am

Who are you waiting for to post this so called case?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #446 (isolation #75) » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:46 am

It's like arguing with my little brother.

I'm gonna tell mom.
Fine, let's both tell mom.
No I don't wanna.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #451 (isolation #76) » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:25 am

In post 441, Johhog wrote:
In post 440, Mr_Ree wrote:Post your case.

Nah... not feeling like it. Later on.

Yeah immaturity... post your freaking case!!!!!!

Mr_Ree · Post Post #453 (isolation #77) » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:01 pm

Don't think I haven't noticed the three driving forces on many of the mislynch wagons are all voting me. Thanks for pointing that out Godot. I didn't have to look too hard to confirm it.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #460 (isolation #78) » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:46 am

While we wait, does anyone want to point out anything unrelated to the Joh/ree votes?

@Godot: what makes Lucky a better Lynch target than anyone else? His play today is much stronger and more involved. While I agree that there are some points we have both made that support the scum theory, he has completely dropped off my radar for the time being. The post you made outlining the major players in yesterday's fiasco was, to me, far more telling. The fact that all 3 of them are currently on the same wagon again today should be an eye opener to everyone.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #463 (isolation #79) » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:05 am

@lucky LOL I was going to point out the Joh/Zab relationship. Case on it's way...

Mr_Ree · Post Post #464 (isolation #80) » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:07 am

Btw, if you intend to hammer, state intent. I don't intend to claim without it.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #467 (isolation #81) » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:24 am

I'm going to attempt to cover everything in three posts. This is the first. My responses to Joh's case. Which in my eyes is pretty weak.

In post 461, Johhog wrote:
In post 331, Mr_Ree wrote:I'm not opposed to the idea either. I don't think Mehdi made anyone's town list but correct me if I'm wrong on that. We have to remember though that there are (or should be) 2 Mafia out there. I have to believe that they wouldn't both be the same wagon but my main scum targets were all on Zabs wagon. If we choose to give Lucky a pass this time, Mehdi is the next best choice.
Intent to hammer. There are some things I'd like to check first though.

In post 106, Mr_Ree wrote:
Mehdi2277
Mehdi went to a lot of effort to see what people thought of Lucky. Normally when people file somebody as leaning town, they move on to a new target (the whole point of scumhunting). As far as following DJD's lead on voting me, it is pretty much null, more to add pressure than because he actually agreed with DJD. I'm still curious why Bub was given town cred since Mehdi was quick to hop on that wagon. The explaination in #90 said hitting L-1 early in the game gave him town cred, I dissagree with this but the reaction test made sense.
Good investigating and a lot of healthy questioning places Mehdi as leaning town.

That is the last time you really mentioned Mehdi before you voted him. What caused the sudden shift?

Sudden shift? You realize that there are over 220 posts in between those two quotes right? That's not very sudden. You were quick to vote in wagon spot 3 when you thought it was going somewhere though.

There is more though. You were also present on the wagon that led to Lucky's claim. In your big post of reads you said this:

In post 106, Mr_Ree wrote:
Luckyjt
After giving a nonchalant response to questions regarding his vote in RVS, Lucky seemed fairly townie. Post #48 is more or less a townie post. Also, Happy Belated Lucky
Hard to get a good read here but looking townish so far.

In post 264, Mr_Ree wrote:You didn't sheep but your reads come from everyone else?

Lynch all liars. HOS Lucky.

Don't even think about ending the day until we hear something more from Joh.

There is 150 posts in between these two examples and also a logical reason to go there. Notice the last line though. Joh is still in my top suspects.

In post 274, Mr_Ree wrote:
In post 266, borkjerfkin wrote:You realize that at this point this is going to be less about who is scum and more about who's better at arguing, right?

I'm hoping that's not the case. Let's get this day rolling. I've been thinking more about PoE. That's. A good enough place to start.

Not including yourself, who are your top two candidates for town? I have Godot as a top townie candidate and zab as a runner up. I'm starting to lean lucky for lynching due to the panic posts. Ignoring spelling and grammar is a sign that he was in a rush to get those posts out. It was pretty consistent until he came under the gun.

vote lucky

Everyone, same question. Which two players stand out as probably town?

Those were the next times he mentioned Lucky. Again, what happened here? While I think a little flip-flopping is natural this is more than a bit too much for me.

I stated my suspicions on Lucky. Did you miss them? flip floping over the course of 150 posts is not out of the ordinary. Weren't you on that one too.....?

You were also ready to vote Sal late yesterday - which makes you positively oriented towards our three wagons that led to a claim yesterday.

I think the key word in there was ready. I wasn't. I wanted more info out of you, among several other players. Did you just conveniently forget that? I'm sure I pointed that out.... Oh wait... I did. By the way, weren't you in spot three on that one too? Didn't you say you were ready for someone to hammer him? I think you did....

While that's a little strange in itself I think this is the big thing here:

In post 106, Mr_Ree wrote:My top three choices for scum are DJD, Bub and Zabriel, in that order. There has to be at LEAST one in that list.

Which means you pointed your finger at everyone except yourself, Bork and Godot. I don't think any honest town player can have that many scum reads.

And would you look at that, right back to my original reads. What a flip flop!!! I've thought of Bork and Godot as town thoughout the game. Bork was hard to get a read on in the early game but he has been making great points and has been the voice of reason whenever things get crazy. For the most part, Godot has been playing a great game and is doing a fair job at scumhunting. I had no idea about the rest. Haven't most of us suspected them at some point? Bub for his early reaching, Lucky for inconsistent play, Zab for going against his own logic, and you for multiple reasons I've already stated and will restate in my next few posts.

And yet again, he flip-flopped completely on Zab. He was leaning scum on him early on but when he voted Lucky he said this:

In post 274, Mr_Ree wrote:Not including yourself, who are your top two candidates for town? I have Godot as a top townie candidate and zab as a runner up.

He was making some strange points at the beginning. His logical approach won me over as it was easy to understand. His arguement today on why Mehdi wasn't the logical choice set him waaay back in my eyes and made me take notice of something that I will explain later.

Without any explanation for the sudden shift. Now Zab is one of his biggest town reads and Ree stops at nothing to make himself look better.

In post 322, Mr_Ree wrote:Look at the two wagons we have running. The more townie looking players are voting lucky and the more scummy looking players are voting zab.

In post 317, DCLXVI wrote:
(3)
Luckyjt
: Mr_Ree, ProsecutorGodot, borkjerfkin
(L-2)

(3)
Zabriel
Luckyjt, Mehdi2277, Salamence20
(L-2)

Of course, he neglects to mention that he's on the Luckywagon himself. Neat.

Why is it strange that I said that? Godot Bork and Myself. I haven't suspected either of those two. The Zab wagon had the 3 most voted players of day 1. Neat eh?

And then he does of course proceed to change his mind once more.

In post 434, Mr_Ree wrote:TOWN. Bork Godot Bub Lucky Zab Johhog SCUM

And his only (vague) explanation is that he's getting "bad vibes" out of Zab. And look. "Surprisingly" he fails to give any reasoning whatsoever of why I'm scum. Instead he resorts to simple personal attacks.

Why are my reads strange now? I'm voting you so of course you would be in my top scum slot. I think Zab is your partner so he is number 2 scum, bub and lucky are interchangably null, and my top two town reads are at the top of my town list. I will go on to explain the reason I think Zab is your partner. As for you, I've had my eyes on you the whole game. I even mentioned that I was going back to look at my original case on DJD. Strange indeed.... Aside from a contradiction that you failed to point out, why are you putting me at L-1?

I fail to see any town motivation behind Ree's actions. There's no way he has the mind of a townie. And you guys know what? I'm out of time. I'm pretty content for now (even though I didn't have time to write about some things such as the recent contradiction etc.) but I'll go back later and check if I want to add anything to my case. But I've hit my own time limit, so this is Reecase 1.0. Hope you guys like it.

I do like it. It's so full of holes that it will make my case so much easier. This is what you've spent days working on? Seriously? This is why you were so confident in your case? This is what was making you so unbalanced? Sounds like you were really counting on Lucky for the hammer. Not buying the AtE. Not buying it at all.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #468 (isolation #82) » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:26 am

Three more posts coming, One on Joh, one on Zab and one to tie them together. Gotta stop for dinner but I'll try to do Joh's tonight. The others may wait until tomorrow.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #471 (isolation #83) » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:55 am

Limited access today. No wifi until tomorrow. May be back up later tonight.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #473 (isolation #84) » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:39 pm

Ree's case on Joh v1.0

Let's start with DJD

Post 39 has always been in the back of my head

1. Unvote, compliment, I label you as town! This was 39 posts in. I could see it a little later in the game but the reason I was focused on it was because it is the perfect strategy to get somebody who is tunnelling you to drop thier guard and focus elsewhere. DJD scum would have every reason to post this (This should get him off my back for now...)

Post 64 and 67

2. The reasons for not liking my questions, specifically the one about timezones was "Because town doesn't care when everyone else is online, but scum might." This was kind of a reach, but it's also when he dropped out of the game.

Now on to Johhog

Now that day 1 is over, I thought it was the perfect time to go back and check Joh's ISO. I happened on some rather interesting things.

Post 179

3. Hypocritical arguement at the end of the read. It took a while to get to us. When he first mentions Mehdi, it was to say he had a town tell. Same with Lucky and Zab. He focused on Sal later in this post but ultimately settled on Godot because of Godot's post 52 "The sooner they can get mislynches and move out of our two NK-free days, the better for them." He later went on to attack me for thinking the same thing about it. Think about why he would feel he would have to check up on it, even going as far as to check a different game to make sure. I noticed it but I couldn't be bothered to look it up. It's advantageous to town, so yay. Notice how my read on Godot said leaning town but if for some reason there is no NK for two nights, we should seriously think about looking at Godot. Where in that does it imply that I could be bothered with checking a different game?

Post 182

In post 182, Johhog wrote:

In post 61, ProsecutorGodot wrote:Actually, you're right. I'm confusing this with an Open game that just started, and it's Semi-Nightless. Maybe after these games end, I won't take on this many games. Or at least not let them blur together.

Man, I think I was a little trigger-happy here. Checked it and well, this guy's right. Sorry.

UNVOTE: ProsecutorGodot

In post 62, DoubleJD wrote:If anyone cares to look at that game sala linked...you'll notice he was scum and reacted completely differently under pressure. Similarly, if you check my wiki and open Open 422, you'll see he responds to pressure in a very similar manner there as he did here and was town then.

2 game meta, but its enough to put him at the 'most likely townie' end of this list of 8.

2 game meta? Really?
quote]

4. AMISH TELL. Would you look at that... I found scum! Gotcha on this one. My vote is not changing until one of us gets Lynched. EVERYTIME I have seen this happen, it's been from scum. EVERYTIME.

Post 146

In post 146, Johhog wrote:
In post 145, Mr_Ree wrote:BTW, How long does does it normally take to read through 6 pages?

Not long, but then you're supposed to respond to it all too (and sleep, I'm in a different time zone than you) and when your computer fucks up halfway through and it all gets deleted you get pretty mad. I won't rewrite it all so I chose a different solution but you'll still have to wait for a few more hours.

5. ISO post number freaking one. Damn. WHY WAS I SO BLIND??? You either lied about one thing or another. You're caught. You read through the thread, did a post, and it got deleted.... ok. So you got all the way up to date, enough to respond to my post... but you still felt the need to write the post as if it was your first read??? Combined with the Amish tell, I don't really need to go on. But if you insist...

6.
In post 359, Johhog wrote:Almost 3 days. Notice that our mod's using the 0.00

0.00

Btw, could everyone who isn't voting Sal please sum up their thoughts on him in just a sentence or two?[/
0.00

0.00

I'm going to switch my stance here. I thought I caught something but I'm not sure it was actually there. Zab is... I don't know... I've taken note of the fact that anytime I vote or cast suspicion on the DJD/Joh slot he votes me, it's been the same for a few others. I've noticed a few other things but I will them for later. Bub is Johhog's partner. I never took into account the whole mafia can talk during the night thing. And also set targets.... If Sal was day 1 target, I must be day 2. If we still have any kind of useful power role, I'd like someone to check out either zab or bub when Joh's lynch flips scum. Preferably Bub.

0.00

In post 383, Johhog wrote:
In post 381, Mehdi2277 wrote:0.00

0.00

0.00

0.00

0.00

In post 401, Johhog wrote:0.00

0.00

0.00
Mehdi/Sal
0.00

0.00

0.00

0.00

Mr_Ree · Post Post #474 (isolation #85) » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:58 pm

@DCLXVI, please remove the previous post. I screwed up on the formatting. Gotta start using that preview button

Ree's case on Joh v1.0

Let's start with DJD

Post 39 has always been in the back of my head

1. Unvote, compliment, I label you as town! This was 39 posts in. I could see it a little later in the game but the reason I was focused on it was because it is the perfect strategy to get somebody who is tunnelling you to drop thier guard and focus elsewhere. DJD scum would have every reason to post this (This should get him off my back for now...)

Post 64 and 67

2. The reasons for not liking my questions, specifically the one about timezones was "Because town doesn't care when everyone else is online, but scum might." This was kind of a reach, but it's also when he dropped out of the game.

Now on to Johhog

Now that day 1 is over, I thought it was the perfect time to go back and check Joh's ISO. I happened on some rather interesting things.

Post 179

3. Hypocritical arguement at the end of the read. It took a while to get to us. When he first mentions Mehdi, it was to say he had a town tell. Same with Lucky and Zab. He focused on Sal later in this post but ultimately settled on Godot because of Godot's post 52 "The sooner they can get mislynches and move out of our two NK-free days, the better for them." He later went on to attack me for thinking the same thing about it. Think about why he would feel he would have to check up on it, even going as far as to check a different game to make sure. I noticed it but I couldn't be bothered to look it up. It's advantageous to town, so yay. Notice how my read on Godot said leaning town but if for some reason there is no NK for two nights, we should seriously think about looking at Godot. Where in that does it imply that I could be bothered with checking a different game?

Post 182

In post 182, Johhog wrote:

In post 61, ProsecutorGodot wrote:Actually, you're right. I'm confusing this with an Open game that just started, and it's Semi-Nightless. Maybe after these games end, I won't take on this many games. Or at least not let them blur together.

Man, I think I was a little trigger-happy here. Checked it and well, this guy's right. Sorry.

UNVOTE: ProsecutorGodot

In post 62, DoubleJD wrote:If anyone cares to look at that game sala linked...you'll notice he was scum and reacted completely differently under pressure. Similarly, if you check my wiki and open Open 422, you'll see he responds to pressure in a very similar manner there as he did here and was town then.

2 game meta, but its enough to put him at the 'most likely townie' end of this list of 8.

2 game meta? Really?

4. AMISH TELL. Would you look at that... I found scum! Gotcha on this one. My vote is not changing until one of us gets Lynched. EVERYTIME I have seen this happen, it's been from scum. EVERYTIME.

Post 146

In post 146, Johhog wrote:
In post 145, Mr_Ree wrote:BTW, How long does does it normally take to read through 6 pages?

Not long, but then you're supposed to respond to it all too (and sleep, I'm in a different time zone than you) and when your computer fucks up halfway through and it all gets deleted you get pretty mad. I won't rewrite it all so I chose a different solution but you'll still have to wait for a few more hours.

5. ISO post number freaking one. Damn. WHY WAS I SO BLIND??? You either lied about one thing or another. You're caught. You read through the thread, did a post, and it got deleted.... ok. So you got all the way up to date, enough to respond to my post... but you still felt the need to write the post as if it was your first read??? Combined with the Amish tell, I don't really need to go on. But if you insist...

6.

In post 359, Johhog wrote:Almost 3 days. Notice that our mod's using the 0.00

0.00

Btw, could everyone who isn't voting Sal please sum up their thoughts on him in just a sentence or two?

0.00

I'm going to switch my stance here. I thought I caught something but I'm not sure it was actually there. Zab is... I don't know... I've taken note of the fact that anytime I vote or cast suspicion on the DJD/Joh slot he votes me, it's been the same for a few others. I've noticed a few other things but I will them for later. Bub is Johhog's partner. I never took into account the whole mafia can talk during the night thing. And also set targets.... If Sal was day 1 target, I must be day 2. If we still have any kind of useful power role, I'd like someone to check out either zab or bub when Joh's lynch flips scum. Preferably Bub.

0.00

In post 383, Johhog wrote:
In post 381, Mehdi2277 wrote:0.00

0.00

0.00

0.00

0.00

In post 401, Johhog wrote:0.00

0.00

0.00
Mehdi/Sal
0.00

0.00

0.00

0.00

Mr_Ree · Post Post #475 (isolation #86) » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:11 pm

@Zab I wasn't really pushing for Lucky, I was trying to sort out my thoughts and just decided to look at the smaller wagon first because it was easier to process. Lucky was the only one left on it but I really have nothing to go on there. He's moved up into the townie range and Bub dropped below you to scum, putting you back in my null range.

I'm still going to keep a close eye on you but Bub jumped onto my radar and the more I look at the slot, the worse it looks. 16 posts. Damn. Trying to fly under the radar. Too bad he popped onto mine.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #477 (isolation #87) » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:28 pm

Alright. In order to explain the Amish tell, I'm going to use the originator's quote:

Amished wrote:You replace into a game. Size/length doesn't matter. You get a town-aligned role (PR/Vanilla doesn't matter either). What's your first instinct? Get to scumhunting, right? (RIGHT!) Heck, do you ever have any instinct or thought to check what your predecessor did at all? Of course not, since you know he (and you) are town aligned and whatever he did was with town intentions. Also, you know that townies can be wrong so you don't have to worry about changing a viewpoint or a stance on anybody and looking scummy because you can explain it. Therefore, you have ZERO reason to look at what your predecessor did, at all, ever. You might look for his thoughts since you know that he's town aligned but ultimately you believe in your ideas and scumhunting much moreso than anybody else's, even if you know that they're confirmed town.

Same scenario, but you get a scum role. You then have to worry about if you're under pressure, what did your predecessor say to become under pressure, you don't want to rock the boat too much and therefore you don't want to switch stances. All of this means that you look to your predecessor *first*. That's exactly what PE did by knowing that his predecessor didn't post at all.

There is ZERO/NONE/NADA/NILCH reason for any townie to look at their predecessor first and foremost. There *is* scum motivation. That makes it one of very very few true scumtells. I've done it as scum, ABR, Jazzmyn, xRECKONERx... I'm missing some here but that's some notable ones just off the top of my head.

In the past, I have used this tell in order to net scum multiple times. I can explain more in a bit if you need me to, but the synopsis is that Johhog is scum and needs to die. I have not seen any tell more accurate than the Amish tell, and as a result, when someone drops the tell, I lynch them. There is nothing more definite in mafia that is not PR-related.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #479 (isolation #88) » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:01 pm

Yeah. Hindsight is 20/20. I wish I noticed it yesterday.

I'm still considering the possibility of you bussing after you realized Joh's case was weaksauce. I think I would prefer Bub for tomorrow's Lynch.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #483 (isolation #89) » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:01 am

Does anyone really care about being blacklisted by a player who says he is thoroughly uninterested with playing Mafia? I don't.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #484 (isolation #90) » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:04 am

BTW, that was a nice AtE threat.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #487 (isolation #91) » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:47 pm

That puts Joh at L-1. Lets wait and hear from Bub and Lucky before we end this.

@Mod: Can we get a prod on Bub?

Any thoughts on all this Bork? Who do you think is Joh's most likely partner?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #491 (isolation #92) » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:23 pm

I do believe what I'm posting, I wouldn't post it if I didn't. I get the confirmation bias though. My case is written with him being scum in mind. When I saw the Amish tell, I went back over everything, including my very early read on DJD. After realizing the tell, it all looked scummy to me.

The fact that he hasn't really done anything townie motivated since I voted him doesn't help him at all in my eyes either. Did he ever make a case for any of his reads? If he was town, he would still be scumhunting instead of acting spoiled. I've never seen a townie react so bad to a case. He is caught scum and he knows it.

Why do you think bub is town?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #496 (isolation #93) » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:05 am

Noted. I'm almost 100% sure Johhog is the right vote for today. If I'm wrong then it's his own fault for his behavior after being voted. He still hasn't posted anything that will help town tomorrow. No reads, no advice, just a call to Lynch me.

I'll play your game Johhog. IF you flip town, I will place the first vote on myself tomorrow.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #500 (isolation #94) » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:22 am

vote ree

Sorry Johhog. Really thought it was you.

If anyone still doubts my townieness, trust me on this. Will explain later if you didn't catch it.

unvote, vote Bork.

I will "eat my hat" if I'm wrong again today.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #504 (isolation #95) » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:39 am

For the record, you're probably scum too. I'm leaning scum on both Bork and bub. Godot is probably town unless I got roleblocked the first night. I'd be dead by now otherwise.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #507 (isolation #96) » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:06 pm

In post 98, Mr_Ree wrote:Can't post now, game night with the girlfriend and neighbors. Most of you think I'm scummy but aren't willing to vote... What am I, Mr. Rogers? Use your votes people. Just don't hammer until after I post my reads. If you think I'm Mafia, you may as well learn something from my Lynch.

P-edit. No it's not... BTW, I find it odd that you unvoted considering bud is in no danger of being lynched and is one of your scum leads...

P-edit 2 LOL

Would you look at that... I breadcrumbed. I'm the friendly neighbor. Not exactly a Mafia role. I won't fill you in on all the little details on my role but I'm pretty sure it's Bork and bub.

What do you have to say for yourself now?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #509 (isolation #97) » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:35 pm

Yeah but you forget, I took a chance by targetting Godot with it. Since Mehdi died it should have gone through since he couldn't have blocked me. No Mafia would want me around in endgame. Considering the fact that I'm still alive, I can probably trust Godot to be town. That leaves you, lucky and bub. I'm pretty sure you're hammers were an attempt to obscure information. The fact that you've been the only one to hammer this game, all on townies, after stating townreads on them up until their Lynch became viable. If I'm wrong, game over is just around the corner. If I'm right, town wins.

And why the hell would I fakeclaim freindly neighbor?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #513 (isolation #98) » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:39 pm

Yup. No reason to say who else at this point in time. I could be persuaded to vote bub instead.

unvote

Anyone else have anything?

P-edit : @ Lucky what are your thoughts on everyone else right now?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #514 (isolation #99) » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:19 pm

In post 503, Bub Bidderskins wrote:For the record, I fucking called it.

Any scum could

vote bub

Mr_Ree · Post Post #515 (isolation #100) » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:00 pm

I thought there would be more action here tonight. Just to play on the safe side, I'm going to unvote today whenever I'm going to be offline for extended periods. I'm pretty sure bork and bub are scum but I'm not going to leave anyone open for a quickhammer without some solid discussion today.

@Lucky, he was either town or a third party. He probably wouldn't have been night killed if he was scum.

UNVOTE: Bub

Mr_Ree · Post Post #519 (isolation #101) » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:19 am

@lucky it makes no sense and you know it. Why would scum buss their partner at a point where they could potentially win the game.

Also, why would I claim friendly neighbour when it's a role that doesn't really tell me any info other than if I don't die then they are probably town.

By leaving my 2nd target hidden, I can create a worrisome scenario for scum. Is there two people out there who know his identity? Who knows? I like it that way for now. My votes carry more strength and have more backing behind them. The
fact that it seems to be worrying you, Bork, means I'm probably right in my assumption.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #521 (isolation #102) » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:45 am

@Godot, what are your thoughts? Should I say my other target?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #522 (isolation #103) » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:25 am

@lucky, I'm not pulling a Legato this time. I'm telling the truth. I am the friendly neighbour. If townies vote me or any other townie today, it's game over. I'm assuming your vanilla claim to be true. Make sure you place your vote right today.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #526 (isolation #104) » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:35 pm

What. The. Fuck.

You seriously didn't get a message from the mod saying I'm town Godot? That's messed up. So much for this PR. My second target was Zab. Considering he's dead now, he can't confirm me either. I was kinda counting on you when I claimed.

Fuck it. I'm still down for Bub. I don't know how I got blocked night one but it probably means we have a second roleblocker of some kind because Mehdi's action shouldn't have resolved.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #531 (isolation #105) » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:46 pm

Drop the votes until we sort some things out. Use HOS for your desired lynch target and FOS for their partner. We have plenty of time.

HOS BUB FOS BORK

I'm so freaking confused right now. The way I see it, it's either a Bork/Bub scum team or a Godot/Lucky scum team. I'm leaning more towards the bork and bub team because of Bub's overall play. Bork's WAIT WAIT WAIT reaction was more defensive sounding.

In post 517, borkjerfkin wrote:If Ree's target claims he did not get a message, that at least proves that at least 1 of Ree, person who Ree claims he sent a message to is scum.

What happened to this?

@Bork: Why are you so sure Bub is town? If you're right, I need to be seeing what you're seeing. If I flipped as a Friendly Neighbour, who would be the scum team?

@Bub: What made you change your reads? It's a big change even though your last reads were from day 2. Why do you think Bork is scum? What do you think about the possibility of Godot/Lucky as a scum team?

@Godot: Your reads are matching mine right now even though you don't have any solid proof that I'm town. What have you noticed from Bub? What are your current thoughts on Lucky? How do you feel about Bork's reaction when I voted him and claimed?

@Lucky: I'm still under the impression that you are a vanilla townie, for now. I'm not quite sure what you think is wrong with my claim. Assuming my claim is true (because it is), who would be the next logical scum team?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #532 (isolation #106) » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:48 pm

EBWOP, Never mind the quoted part, it's been discussed.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #535 (isolation #107) » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:55 am

Your nose is broken lucky. I'm exactly who I say I am.

Mr_Ree · Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:04 am

Are you still sure bub would be my partner? Not hard to prove my role tonight since I shouldn't be blocked. That would men you guys either see my flip if I'm nk'd or get my message. Either way, you can prove me tomorrow.

Mr_Ree · Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:35 pm

So the Godot/lucky team doesn't make sense to you Bub, given that you think Godot is town. Can you find anything to tie Bork and Lucky together aside from current reads?

Mr_Ree · Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:44 pm

@Godot: that is why I chose Zab. I was planning on sending it to Bork for most of day 2. When I realized he hammered without giving Lucky a chance to say anything, I changed my mind to Zab thinking he would likely survive the night. You or Bork should have been the likely NK targets.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #542 (isolation #111) » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:28 am

@Lucky: Even if I was scum (which I'm not) it's better to keep me around after that claim. It's easily proven the next day. There's nobody to block me tonight and if I get killed and flip, you'll know I wasn't lying.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #544 (isolation #112) » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:50 am

Ugh. If you're town, you're playing horribly. Maybe you can't find a partner for me because I don't have one. I just told you how I can be confirmed. If you Lynch whoever you think is my "partner" while believing I'm scum, you have a 1 in 3 chance of choosing right. If you believe my claim, you have a 2 in 3 chance of lynching scum. When scum gets lynched, I get proven either by death or by my PM ability.

Let me give you an example:
If we Lynch Bub and he flips scum, the game continues to auto win. Why? If you and Godot are town, no matter who dies over night, I get proven as town. Bork-scum would then have to kill Godot to leave it as you, me and him and hoping that you didn't get my message. If he killed me, I'd get confirmed and you and Godot would vote Bork. If he killed you, Godot and I would vote Bork. Of course, that assumes that both you and Godot are town.

Mr_Ree · Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:25 am

Aren't you the rule master Bork?

@ mod: if scum have daytalk, would it say so in the rules?

Let's get this out of the way now. Nobody voted after Bub except you. Scum found?

Mr_Ree · Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:11 pm

In post 552, borkjerfkin wrote:I'm talking about someone voting
with
Bub. I hardly voted for myself. Stop being dense.

Nor did anyone else. Your previous comment was moot.

Mr_Ree · Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:31 pm

Why do you think I started the day off voting for you? To see if anyone else would jump on. Nobody did.

The daytalk point is useless. A quickhammer can happen with or without it. All scum needs is for one townie to vote another townie. Notice how nobody has voted after you and bub? Probably means one or both is scum.

Daytalk is useless when scum can chat during night phase. Plans can still be made. Get online every night at exactly 8pm est. If anyone is voting town, vote with them at exactly 8:01pm. See how easy that is? Why does daytalk make a difference?

Mr_Ree · Post Post #558 (isolation #116) » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:09 pm

Because you seem so concerned about it. Lets just take that off the table by having a mod confirm one way or the other. It is handy to know if they do or don't. Doesn't make any difference either way but it is handy to know. Odd that you didn't look it up. Seems to go against your play this game.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #563 (isolation #117) » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:02 pm

My thoughts exactly. If Bub was town, scum would have taken advantage. Which means it's most likely an attempt to bus his partner, Bork.

That's the way I see it. I'm not ready to end the day though. Not until I figure out Lucky. I've played with him before on other sites. He's not new to the game and I know he plays better than this. I noticed a possible lucky/Godot scumteam day 2. My Johhog/zab read was stronger. Since that didn't pan out, I'm open to the possibility again. Given everyone's current reads, Bub is the most likely scum. Partnerwise, my scum read on Bork hinges on his reads on Bub and his town hammers. He has taken the hammer on town twice in a row. I'm willing to make a case but I want more discussion before the day ends.

Can I ask everyone to post both a town and scum case on everyone? I'll do the same. There's a chance it may muddy up the waters a bit but it's equally likely that it should make the scum team pretty evident.

Mr_Ree · Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:37 am

I'm here. Still working on my read wall. Will post it later tonight.

Sorry all, busy week.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #591 (isolation #119) » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:36 pm

I have to think about this for a sec. I knew Godot was going last night. I sent the message to Bork. Even though I thought he might be scum. I had this all sorted out but I don't want to finish this while drunk.

Will post more tomorrow.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #592 (isolation #120) » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:52 pm

BTW, How did everyone decide on Lucky? I really wasn't sure.

Mr_Ree · Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:05 am

Lol, so this is fun right? I've already chosen who I want to lynch. Don't let me interrupt your arguement though. I'm rather enjoying this.

Mr_Ree · Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:49 am

Haha ikr? Bork screwed up pretty hard on day 3. He really could have made things harder on me by believing my claim as you did.

Final thoughts Bork?

Mr_Ree · Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:13 pm

Lol. You two done? Are you ready yet?

Mr_Ree · Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:59 pm

Dude, you're making this too easy. Resist or something. Put some fight into it man!

Mr_Ree · Post Post #614 (isolation #125) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:45 am

Vote Bork

Sorry all if I got this wrong. I'm 70% sure I didn't but considering who is left, the fact that everyone has been calling bub town and lastly, Bork's reaction, I couldn't have gone any other way.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #619 (isolation #126) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:19 am

Great game everyone. I still thought bub was scummy going into day 4. If not for the little gamble I did saying I was planning on voting Bork, I never would have known.

Gg

Mr_Ree · Post Post #623 (isolation #127) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:46 am

Yeah my claim came at the perfect time. Sorry for the reaction test. Glad it worked.

Mr_Ree · Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:37 am

Actually I was under the impression that lucky was town and playing really bad. I probably wouldn't have voted him.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #635 (isolation #129) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:25 pm

In post 631, Johhog wrote:I hate this game, this site and I hate all of you. Taking a break once I'm out of my current games. I've been playing worse and worse recently.

You weren't playing that badly, you just made the mistake of attacking me. No hard feelings but I couldn't have you exposing my role too early. I'm not sorry for anything. If you hate everyone for not lynching the town PR, so be it and so long.

@DJD. I'll admit, Salamence wasn't really in the spotlight for me day 1, I was looking closer at Bub, your slot and (a distant 3rd), Lucky. It didn't seem like any of them were viable with so little time left so I more or less gave my support to get the flip. No worries on having to replace out. Real life should always come first and, lets face it, sometimes things come up.

Thanks Godot, my claim would have fallen to pieces if you hadn't supported me day 3. I enjoyed playing the game with you.

Lucky.... you were the least threatening scum I've ever played against. If your FOS's held any weight to them, I would have just policy lynched you like Johhog. Next time I'll be able to pick up on your alignment right away. I just thought you remembered when I raeped the town as Legato.

Bork, you had me confused until the very end, bravo. It was fun playing with you. You were right, good arguements and eloquence will normally win me over. If not for the mushroom post, I may have turned around and voted Bub.

Bub, gg. You didn't post a lot and I had you as scum for most of the game. Next time, I'll know better.

Zab, I like your logical mind. Too bad you got nkd. When you were thinking and posting along the same logic I was using, it helped clear my own head. Hope to see you around.

Mehdi, if you hadn't blocked me night 1, things would have gone so much easier. If I had a role that could have saved you I totally would have. Sorry for making you claim day 1. If you want, pm me and I'll explain my PR strategy. It always seems to work for me.

Mr_Ree · Post Post #636 (isolation #130) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:29 pm

@Salamence, sorry about the early death. At least I got the DJD slot for you as retribution

@mod, great game! I liked both the setup and my role. Too bad the only time my message worked was when it was being sent to scum...