Micro 121: SS9 (Game over!)

[Wickedestjr]

Vote: Blueberry

[Wickedestjr]

Why blueberry?

He hadn't (still hasn't) confirmed.

...I think I've got it. The scum team is Lincolm, Kmd4390, and Blueberry. Lincolm, aware of the fact that his post is similar to Kmd's, knows he has to make his different to avoid suspicion; he does this by adding a colon to his vote with a space between it and the word 'vote'- something a town-alligned player would never naturally do. Note, also, that he refers to Kmd4390 as 'Kmd' rather than 'Kmd4390'. This is because they've already become acquainted in their quicktopic. Kmd votes for me in an effort to chainsaw defend Blueberry, because he is not here to defend against my allegations towards him.

Good game. Wasn't that hard though.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: Blueberry's here now.

[Wickedestjr]

Expect a post in three or four hours. If it's not here, then I've been eaten by lions. I have to go now, though.

Mod:

I don't know why they would, but if a townie were to hammer their self, would they be the only player to die? Or would the L-1 voter die as well?

[Wickedestjr]

The post 9 scumteam theory was a joke, for anyone who is not aware. I was hoping it would help get the ball rolling.

Post 12- Lincolm, why did you vote for me in this post? And do you feel that this vote was more helpful/productive than your vote for Kmd? If so, why?

maybe with all votes, put in parenthesis who you think should be killed if the lynch is on a supersaint. We basically have two chances to lynch scum each day. the lynch target could be scum. If not, they could kill scum. If we effectively have a second lynch count, we can control both chances by consensus.

I agree with this. If we can execute this strategy effectively, then we essentially have eight lynches to kill three scum. Two ideas I'd like to add about lynching procedure;
1. If we are lynching player A, then we have to choose player B to hammer under the assumption that player A is town. Just as an example, if player B is the next most popular candidate for death mostly because he seems connected to obvscum player A, then it would not make sense to have player B hammer. There's one other interesting idea I had regarding how to determine the player that hammers, but I still need to think about it- also it would be a more effective idea in later days.
2. We need to be fairly quick in deciding who we lynch. I see two situations which could turn out badly if we cannot reach a decision in time. a.) A mafia goon on the end of the largest bandwagon unvotes just before deadline to cause the death of the next-to-last voter. b.) Somebody refuses to hammer not long before deadline.

I personally believe we should have our lynch decided 3 or 4 days before deadline.


Post 16- Lincolm, you say there is at least one scum on your bandwagon (Cheery Dog, Kmd, Lincolm, Blueberry). Why did you say that? The only serious non-Lincolm votes on this bandwagon were from Kmd and Blueberry- are you saying you think at least one of those two people are mafia?

Post 17- I'm not a fan of this post from Blueberry. Firstly, how did the quotes from Lincolm imply that he was mafia? Secondly, what kind of answer were you expecting?

I believe the ones who were fast to call it a joke are the most likely ones to be scum though - town could have let it go to see the reactions. On this note, Blueberry and kmd are the ones who instantly treated it as a joke, with kmd not only calling it a joke, but including it in reasons in order to vote you (Lincolm).

Other things about kmd:

-The inclusion of the last paragraph in 13 looks pre-prepared, something that he had thought of posting in his first serious post.

-kmd was the first one to start the "Why (name)?" chain - Why did you need to ask for explaining regarding a RVS vote?

Wisdom, I have a hard time believing that you believe in the first paragraph of this quote, considering Kmd's vote for Lincolm was in part due to Lincolm's reaction to my joke. Also, can you elaborate on the bolded point, please?

Post 40- Cheery Dog, my point was that Lincolm's vote looked strange because there was a space between the word 'vote' and the colon. People use vote tags all the time. I've revealed that my scumteam theory was not serious.

Post 52- Wisdom, why do you find Lincolm suspicious? Also, you've switched your vote from Kmd (the person who started the bandwagon on Lincolm) to Lincolm. Do you think they are both mafia?

@Cheery Dog- You say Wisdom is suspicious for agreeing with a point that you only half support. Can you explain why that is? You and Wisdom had a conversation about it on page 3, but I did not understand your arguments.

Post 83- It bothers me that I don't know who Huntress suspects. Huntress, who do you suspect? Also, why is eagerness from Wisdom suspicious?

Post 86- Kmd4390, do you think it's suspicious that Lincolm took my post 9 seriously? Also, why ignore Cheery Dog's similar view?

My plan for town to control hammers is the kind of thing where scum might go to a QT and say "hey we have to shoot this down. Someone vote him". I'm disturbed that it's not even being discussed. I'm guessing the other scum won't talk about my plan negatively because they don't want to be too obvious and all in agreement in thread.

How likely do you think this is? Also, do you see Wisdom and Lincolm as potential partners? Or are they just individually suspicious to you?

Woah I just realized that this is a 3 scum in a 9 player game that has town vengekills. This is over poweredly scumsided O.O

I disagree with this completely. If we use the supersaint mechanic as a second lynch, then we basically have eight lynches to hit three mafia.

@theslimer3- Do you suspect anyone other than Lincolm?


Some thoughts-
I think Lincolm is probably town. I've seen scum fake fearlessness before, but Lincolm's self vote and response to the pressure seems a little over the top to be a scum gambit. I believe that he doesn't care about the negative attention. I would like to know who he suspects and would like a response to my questions, but as of right now I'd be surprised if he turned out to be scum.

Cheery Dog's fake hammer was pro-town but I'm hesitant to call him town because IIRC I've only ever seen scum do the same thing. However, I think it is townish how, later on, Cheery Dog discredits his own fake hammer- if he was trying to look like town, then I don't see why he would do that. Overall, neutral leaning town.

Blueberry looks pretty scummy. If you read him in isolation, you'll see he's been active. However, he's pretty much coasted by on his Lincolm vote, asked questions, and hasn't really given any other thoughts since. I also had issue with his post 17.

Wisdom looks even more suspicious. His vote for Kmd4390 seemed poorly justified and his vote for Lincolm looks opportunistic. Also, I find it strange that he has suspicion of both Kmd4390 and Lincolm given their interactions.

Having said that, I'm going to

Unvote. Vote: Wisdom

.

[Wickedestjr]

When you called out Blueberry for confirming last, what did you exactly mean by it? There's different reasons for people to want to call out non-confirmed last.

I voted Blueberry for confirming last... for lack of a better reason. Usually at game start I would make a weak accusation regarding a previous post but there were none. I'm aware of the fact that scum have day talk and thus no motivation to prolong the confirmation stage, but I was also just anxious for the game to start- I haven't played in months. Why do you ask?

I'll be honest,

I didn't read anything

. And if I didn't read the game thus far (got bored) then I'd mess this game all up xD

Dx

I read it this time

, I swear

...did you or did you not read the thread?

[Wickedestjr]

Currently catching up...

I don't get the last sentence. I didn't pick on Cheery. I just wanted to sheeping Kmd, no reason. And sheeping them both? Do I need reason to sheeping someone (as joke) in page 1?

If you wanted to sheep Kmd, then why didn't you sheep him in your first post?

As for the hammer thing for my plan, if someone refuses, they are lynched instead. Easy.

Dunno, but I think the scum can vote someone

early

and don't get caught. So the last think they do are looking the other townie to hammer. Well, I guess you don't think about it or scum who already plan for this to manipulate. It almost likely easy to manipulate in LyLo. I like the idea though... I will follow if not in LyLo.

If the player we want to hammer is already voting the person we want lynched, then we could easily just tell that player to unvote and hammer once the person we want lynched is at L-1. Sure, scum could try and manipulate the votes, but if we play intelligently then I think we can prevent any unwanted/unplanned deaths from occurring. Again, I think time management will be very important this game.

I want to be the hammer if not in LyLo.

That's interesting... why? If you are town, then why would you prefer your potential death to the death of a potential mafia member?

So here it is my read :

Wisdom is town. I already get it from post #32. Based on meta related also, he is a thinker. When he said :

-The inclusion of the last paragraph in 13 looks pre-prepared, something that he had thought of posting in his first serious post.

If he is scum, he won't say this. This is how a thinker town aware with someone plan.

Can you elaborate on this please? I'm not seeing it. And what do you think of my points?

You know that there is 3 scums. Potentially 3 scum can direct town to ask townie to hammer. I don't like the plan because it is easy to manipulate because of this.

I was thinking we have a second

fake

vote to determine who hammers. Not sure how much time this would require though. I still need to consider the different scenarios.

Regarding his "plan" - I had already read about it before, so it's not like the plan was something kmd came up with.

What did you mean by this?

I don't know why you have a hard time. I explained how I think. Yes, it was probably obvious that your case was a joke, yes, most people got it, but there were also people who didn't and others who had not posted yet.

What is the town motivation in killing it and discredit it as a joke

, making sure nobody will be likely to give reactions to it? Yes, we had Lincolm's reaction but we could possibly gain much more. Your original motivation from posting the case was reactions anyway - town that understood that it was a joke should have also understood your motivation and let it go to allow it to elicit reactions. Blueberry and especially kmd instantly killed it, and referred to it as a joke. Scum will refer to it as a joke, because they know they're not in danger from this case.

I think "killing it and discreditting it" is an exaggeration, especially considering you, yourself, admitted that most people realized I was joking and only a few players would actually take it seriously. I still find it strange that you would vote Kmd for discrediting my joke when, in the post in question, he votes Lincolm for his reaction thus taking advantage of my joke. Aside from Lincolm, who else did you think might have taken my joke seriously?

Lincolm is town, kmd is scum. My vote and questions to Lincolm were pressure. I wanted to keep him at L-1 because I felt it was an interesting state for reactions. Scum would not be able to hammer him, town might try tricks like CDog's fake hammer - and generally there were things we could gain.

I have issue with this explanation.
1. What good is a pressure vote when the player you're voting for is also voting for their self? Lincolm didn't seem to mind the votes on him at the time.
2. Why would you pressure vote somebody you thought was town, rather than your top suspect Kmd?
3. If you thought Lincolm was town, then why did you say this:

Regarding his "plan" - I had already read about it before, so it's not like the plan was something kmd came up with. Wouldn't it be nice for scum to give this plan to the town in order to gain cred? This is what I instantly thought when I saw him mentioning it in his first serious post. The way he's trying to use it ("I want Wisdom to hammer Lincolm" - aka I want town to hammer town, because yes,

I find Lincolm town

now

), further confirms to me that it comes from scum. Look at how wicked adds to it in 103 - that's a townie with genuine motivations to use the plan - kmd wasn't.

?

One, my vote on Abraham wasn't serious. Two, he said that at least one person on his wagon is scum & he was on his wagon himself = he's scum. Three, I haven't been serious one bit about Lincoln or pretty much anything up to this point.

...not sure I understand this. So your question regarding Lincolm's hypothetical scum claim was not serious? What was the point of it then? You didn't actually think it was a scum claim? And I dislike your claim that none of your posts regarding Lincolm have been serious, because the post in question didn't sound like a joke.

Good enough time to remove the jokevote. Kmd's eagerness to question a first/obviously RVS vote is somewhat too overdefensive/overanalytical. Also, kmd'd hastiness for Wisdom hammering Abraham/controlling the lynches is also suspicious.

VOTE: Kmd

What made you decide to switch your vote at this moment, specifically?

[Wickedestjr]

Mod:

I will have limited access this Friday, no access this Saturday, and limited access on Sunday. I'll try as hard as I can to post here on Friday and Sunday, but no promises.

I'm almost finished catching up- I'll try to get at least another short post in before I got to sleep tonight.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm currently catching up right now- halfway through page 11 right now. I apologize for the lack of a post yesterday- I've been incredibusy.

The death of a mafia goon for the price of one townie seems like a great trade and I would say we're in a pretty good spot right now. We now essentially have six lynches to get two scum. I'm going to be V/LA this weekend so I'll see if I can take a guess at who the mafia team is in light of the recent flips before I have to leave. I was not expecting Wisdom to flip town, so I might have to reread.


@Kmd- What is your read on Malakittens?

[Wickedestjr]

Quick post before I have to leave. I currently think Huntress and Blueberry are the mafia. Having said that please dont lynch anyone before I return. Ill explain my reads when I get back. Hopefully having day 2 last longer than a few RL days isnt too much to ask for.

Ftr I'm not trying to slide by. I've been really busy- it sucks tbph. I wasn't expecting it either.

Bye cya later

[Wickedestjr]

I'm here. Again, I think Blueberry and Huntress are mafia.

Blueberry-

1. The vote for Wisdom is very scummy. His reasoning is worth quoting;

Wisdom's logic is pretty horrible, but

I can't tell the difference between Wisdomscum bad logic and Wisdomtown bad logic

. Though, I'd still like to see Kmd hammer and flip to see if he's town, so what the hell.

VOTE: Wisdom

He calls Wisdom's logic horrible but never says he believes that Wisdom is mafia. In fact, he pretty much suggests that bad logic is a nulltell by suggesting the possibility of it being Wisdomtown bad logic (bolded). The vote feels very opportunistic.

2. The vote for Cheery Dog feels off. As of right now, I can't pinpoint why exactly. Maybe it's to an extent because I townread CD, but I can't recall Blueberry actually giving a good justification for his vote.

3. Blueberry's posts regarding slimer look like textbook scumbuddy posts. I'm talking about posts 178, 180, 182, and 184. He acknowledges slimer's posts as funny/goofy/jokey but never actually makes an effort to get a read on slimer... well at least not until he asks Wisdom for help. Wisdom, in one sentence, tells Blueberry that slimer is playing similar to his scum meta and six minutes later Blueberry proclaims that he will vote for slimer if a wagon on him starts going. I have issue with this. Firstly, why would Blueberrytown need to wait for others to vote slimer when he could push for the lynch himself? Secondly, he quickly makes this proclamation based on what Wisdom, the player he previously suspected and ends up voting to lynch by the end of day 1, had given a sentence of justification for. Why would Blueberrytown be so quick to trust one of his suspects in this way?

Huntress-

1. If you read Huntress in isolation, you'll notice that, before slimer died and flipped scum, she had acknowledged his presence only once here- and even in this post she barely pays any attention to him. She says "I'm looking at" slimer and three other players, makes comments regarding the other three players, but says nothing to justify her suspicion of slimer. She NEVER speaks directly to slimer or says anything about him aside from in this one post. I get the impression that Huntress is scum who felt obligated to throw slimer's name out there just in case she had to bus later on.

2. In general there were several instances on day 1 where I got the impression Huntress was afraid to call somebody scum, such as the post which I called guilty of IIoA.

3. I believe Huntress is trying to fly under the radar (or at least she reminds me of many utr scum I've caught in the past). I'm not attributing this to her inactivity- regardless of allignment she's probably posting almost as much as she can. But IIRC she only called out Wisdom as mafia on day 1 and even that suspicion seemed largely based on my reasoning- as if she wanted to avoid getting into too many arguments. Worth noting also that Huntress originally read Wisdom as town but then changed her mind over the course of ~120 posts. It's quite possible that she was piggybacking my vote for Wisdom which was somewhere inbetween.

My scumreads are based mostly on individual behavior, but the lack of interaction between these two players is reassuring of my belief that they are both mafia.


Other reads-
Lincolm- almost definitely town (nothing he has said gives me the impression that he cares about how he is perceived- also the reaction to Kmd's plan seems genuine even though I disagree with it)
Cheery Dog- neutral, leaning town (as I explained before the fake hammer wasn't necessarily townish, but the behavior immediately following the fake hammer looks townish, there are also a few things he said/did that didn't appear to have any scum motivation)
Malakittens- neutral, leaning town (I remember thinking on day 1 that she didn't appear to be making an effort in looking like town but instead only cared about finding scum, I also got town vibes from some of her posts on day 2)
Kmd- neutral (I can't get a read on him- I would like to know what he thinks of Huntress and Malakittens)

Dammit. Blueberry has to be town. No scum would want to be at L-1 with someone itching to hammer.

Interesting that you would say this when you yourself were in the same position a few days ago. I don't think it makes Blueberry town, especially when he saw you do the same thing earlier and when there are many players that suspect him. If I were scum in his situation, I wouldn't be afraid to try a similar gambit.

I would personally like to see Huntress hammer Blueberry today.

Vote: Blueberry

(L-1)

[Wickedestjr]

I wonder if Huntress is scum. Reason why I kept calling her town was because I have a reaction test and I used it. She passed it so I called her town for that. Now I'm questioning it.

Can you explain what this was?

Wicked I also find it odd that you are calling Huntress out for sliding under the radar when the difference of your posts are 1 number.

Um... I clearly stated that my 'flying under the radar' point was irrelevant of activity (bolded below). Did you even read everything I said? Look here;

I believe Huntress is trying to fly under the radar (or at least she reminds me of many utr scum I've caught in the past).

I'm not attributing this to her inactivity- regardless of allignment she's probably posting almost as much as she can.

But IIRC she only called out Wisdom as mafia on day 1 and even that suspicion seemed largely based on my reasoning- as if she wanted to avoid getting into too many arguments.

The underlined portion of the post explains my 'fly under the radar' point. It does not apply to me; I called out both Wisdom and Blueberry and justified those suspicions with my own reasoning.

Your posts do have the higher content, but that doesn't make you town.

What is the point/relevance of this comment?

You have zero, zero interactions with Slimer. That can easily be excused by saying you have been busy. That to me isn't an excuse that should be allowed.

Your point that I have zero interactions with Slimer is false. I at least asked Slimer a few questions, thus demonstrating interest in determining his allignment. Huntress said she was "looking at" Slimer in one of her posts but never asked him any questions or made any other comments about him. There's a big difference. How the hell can you say that Huntress has had more interaction? And are you saying you think my inactivity was alignment motivated? (Please tell me you're not saying that)

@Cheery Dog and Lincolm- Why do you think I'm mafia?


More later... I still think Huntress is mafia, but I'm not yet sure about who her scumbuddy could be yet. I don't understand what in my case hasn't convinced people- I think I brought up some good points. I'm thinking Mala is the partner, but I need to reread.

[Wickedestjr]

If we are all confident in

two

one

town read

s

and they're correct, town wins.

Fixed. If I have a correct understanding of the setup, then a three player LyLo scenario would allow for two kills- the lynch and the supersaint's kill, leaving one player in the game.

The next 'question' you asked him was hardly relevant. It was asking him whether or not he read the thread or didn't read the thread.

So you might have been trying to demonstrate interest, but you didn't follow it up. In fact to me you showed NO interest in trying to determine his alignment, but attempted to maybe - idk, distance yourself from him?

The second question was very important imo, because it looked like Slimer was saying he both had and hadn't read the thread. I needed to know if he made his posts knowing what had already been said in the thread- it had an influence on how I initially read him. I later found out that he made some posts w/out reading the thread and others after reading the thread.

I didn't followup on my two questions, because there was nothing to followup on. My first question was if he had any suspects other than Lincolm- he said he didn't have any other suspects. What was I supposed to say? "Try harder"? My only option was to wait for more posts from everyone. The second question was regarding whether or not he actually read the thread- it turns out I misread his posts- no possible followup here. The only reasons I didn't ask Slimer any other questions are- I was catching up for the last few days of D1 (I realize this is a bad excuse, but it's true) and I realized that most of Slimer's posts were pretty terrible/useless in general (they didn't make much sense). I felt that any questions that would benefit me would be based on the big picture of his play rather than regarding individual posts- and I didn't feel as if I was ever caught up enough to ask questions like this- I also wasn't expecting day 1 to end so early (I thought I'd have time to question him more).

You're "potential distancing" suggestion is interesting, but false. I'm not sure at all what makes it look like distancing or what distinguishes my reactions with slimer from my reactions with other players. Especially considering I asked a few other players a similar amount of questions on day 1, including you. Have you looked at anyone else's interactions with slimer?

2. As far as I can see, you haven't called any post "guilty of IIoA". Which post were you referring to?

3. I actually expressed suspicion of Wisdom in the first post I mentioned him in, and explained later why I hadn't said more at that point. You didn't even touch on the points that were my main reason for voting Wisdom, the accusation of lying and the misrep, so I don't know how you can claim that my suspicion was based on your reasoning.

2. I called out your post 83 of IIoA in my first big post (without using the phrase IIoA). Post 124 is also IIoA.

3. Firstly, the first post that you mention Wisdom is post 83. It does not look at all like you are expressing suspicion of him;

At first glance Wisdom seems town but my scumdar is pinging a bit there.

Sure, you gave yourself room to backpedal out of that stance, but it definitely looks like you were leaning town on him in this post.

Secondly, the basis of my vote against Wisdom was almost entirely based on his vote for Kmd. I attacked his reasoning/justification for it. IIRC, you accused him of lying in one of his points against Kmd and you accused him of misrepping Kmd. That's hardly any different from my vote.

So far it's still Cheery and Lincolm but I need time to think first. The last day was cut off too quickly.

+Scumpoints- my two strongest town reads for most of the game. I could be wrong on one of them, but I can't envison any scenario where they are both mafia.


I'm about 86.561% certain that Huntress is mafia at this point. I'd vote, however-
-I want to first try to determine who her hypothetical partner is. I originally thought it was Mala, but the "reaction test" and general interactions between her and Huntress (upon rereading) are giving me pause. More on this hopefully tomorrow.
-If we were to lynch Huntress, which is what I'd like to happen, then it looks like I'm a popular candidate for hammering anyway. Of course I would prefer for a non-conftownie (fmpov) to hammer in this case. However, if my contributions, actions, and answers don't convince anyone, then I'm fine with hammering.

[Wickedestjr]

I reread most of day 1. And I actually think Mala's interactions with slimer look more genuine than CD's. Now I'm beginning to suspect that Huntress and CD are a scum pair.

More on this later when I've got more time to post.

[Wickedestjr]

And

Mod

there are five players still alive, ftr.

Fixed.

[Wickedestjr]

Neither of those posts fit that description unless you consider comments, questions and replies to questions to be IIoA.

In Post 83 you make a few comments regarding other players in the game, but never take a stance on any of them- that's IIoA. e.g. You say that Blueberry's joke vote felt forced, but fail to take any sort of stance. Like most/all of the comments in this post, the lack of a stance allows you to decide later. In the example, you could have easily said later that you do/don't find the joke vote suspicious based on responses to your point and the town's general read on Blueberry. As a matter of fact, the only stance you do give is your read on Wisdom, but even this allows room for backpedaling; you say he seems town but also allow yourself to vote/suspect him by saying "but my scumdar is pinging a bit there".

Post 124 looks like IIoA as well- you say you are looking at four other players, but this statement, again, allows room for backpedaling. You could easily argue that you nullread or even townread one of those four players.

What about "my scumdar is pinging" makes you think I was leaning town on him? And as I said in my last post, I explained later why I hadn't said more at that point.

You said "Wisdom seems town but my scumdar is pinging there". If you were leaning scum on him, then why would you have bothered to say he seems like town. The 'but' in this case implies imo that you townread him but had slight reservations.

The accusation of lying and the misrep

came after your vote on Wisdom, with his second vote on Kmd and not the first one which was the one you based your vote on. You voted Wisdom in post 103. My vote was based on Wisdom's vote in 113, explained in 115 and summarised in 117. Either you're getting your timeline mixed up or you're pulling a misrep of your own.

I'm a little bit confused. If I'm reading this correctly, then you have just explained/justified

my

point. I accused Wisdom in the post that I voted him in, and then your vote and reasoning came afterwards...

Huntress, what in my last post made you wonder?

In their next posts I want to see who Malakittens, Cheery Dog, and Lincolm currently believe the scum team is

(I'm assuming Huntress still suspects CD/Lincolm).

(I'm currently thinking Huntress/CD)

[Wickedestjr]

Why when I wanted people to list it no one was interested, but now all of a sudden you are. CD shot me down super fast.

I acknowledged your request and I in no way shot it down. Ftr, I don't think CD shot it down either. Only reason I'm re-asking the question is because now a week has been spent with the focus on JUST the five of us. I was curious what had changed or been decided since you asked. We're getting to the point where we need to start making a decision.

I have never witnessed any game of Wicked.

Yeah I haven't played on the site a whole lot recently (I think I've played one game in the last year and a half). If you're curious, here are imo four games that exemplify my playstyle pretty well-
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=22984- town (in a hydra as Masnev, but I made most of the posts)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=18160- mafia (i replaced in)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=18412- town
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=13499- mafia (three years ago, but a fairly good representation imo)

That's one of the reasons why I think Wicked is town. If he were scum it would make sense for him to have voted me already to avoid having to hammer.

I'm curious, how much merit do you put in this point?

See though the thing that gives me the most doubt on you is how you are still going after CD and Lincolm. I have known you to play like this as both alignments. The rereading in of itself is null, but I still think town-you would reread more than scum-you.

I'm going after them because they're my top scum-reads. I certainly haven't been looking at them exclusively.

I have issue with this quote. Malakittens expresses doubt of you for going after CD and Lincolm. Yet you're more concerned about the suspicion rather than convincing Malakittens that you're reads are correct. Scummy.

I guess we just have different ideas on what constitutes IIoA.

In those early posts I gave what reads I had at the time.

The lack of a stance in some cases merely meant I hadn't made my mind up on those.

Can you quote this please? (the bolded)

I tend to trust my gut quite a bit. The "but" was meant to imply that I was giving more weight to the gut read than the other part.

Not the way I would've worded it, but I'll assume this is a nulltell.

In posts 113/115 Wisdom accused Kmd of lying and misrepped him and voted him a second time. I voted him for that. Your reasons related to Wisdom's first vote on Kmd, not the second one which came after you voted him.

umm... unless I'm misreading, Wisdom's points in 115 look pretty similar to his points in 32.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm becoming more confident in my Cheery Dog scum read (and slightly less confident in my Huntress scum read). So much in fact that I'm actually going to

Vote: Cheery Dog

partially for post 443.

Originally, when asked to explain his scumreads on Huntress and I, Cheery Dog justifies it by saying he has no reasons for suspecting us, but he simply hasn't established us as town. Yet, later, Malakittens asks him about his reads and he responds with this;

You know CD. Explain to me why you either have a town read on me or a null-leaning town on me?

I don't, I have higher scummy reads on them.

This is extremely contradictory and shows that Cheery Dog really just doesn't want to explain any of his reads. Cheery Dog called Huntress and I mafia solely because Lincolm and Malakittens seemed more townish, but when asked to explain the townreads, he says he reached the conclusion Malakittens was town because Huntress and I appear more suspicious. That's circular reasoning.

Another thing I've noticed is that he's basically coasted through this day with his vote on Huntress. It looks like bussing, but I also think the vote looks bad regardless of Huntress's allignment. Day 3 started, CD expressed suspicion of just me, later he expresses belief in a huntress/wicked scum pair, and then he votes for Huntress rather than me. It seems unnatural and he hasn't even asked any questions or done anything to strengthen his reads despite no reasoning being given. He's shown no townish interest.

[Wickedestjr]

Malakittens, if we are both town, then who's more likely to be mafia? CD or Huntress?

[Wickedestjr]

I was very busy today, so I've read the thread but I don't have time to make a longer post now. I should have plenty of time to post some thoughts/questions/responses tomorrow (~16-17 hours from now). In the meantime, I'm still happy with my vote where it's at- will explain when I return.

[Wickedestjr]

1. To me CD shot it down. Though I'll semi admit that he shot it down for a good reason. I will also admit that I may have just gotten lucky in the LyLo situation that I picked because depending on which players I picked I would have probably lost that game. I still have reason to believe that what I was going to do is a good thing. It helped me in another game and I don't see how CD saying 'Well if I was alive maybe it would have been a different outcome'.

2. Curious as to what changed? Reason why I didn't go through with the 'experiment'. Yeah I was going to use it to help me and get a little closer to figuring out who the scum team was. I felt as if CD destroyed it because he was talking about it happening while I was being scum. I have only played one scum game with CD so to me the whole thing was destroyed as soon as CD said it.

3. Not sure how to put this without it looking terribad. It's going to come off as a chainsaw defense...
She knows where my doubt it coming from. She knows the exact spot. I have known her to play where she is very single-minded as both alignments. It's a bit different when she's (scum) though because she'll go after one person until they are basically dead without looking at others. She's trying to reassure me that she's not doing what I believe she's doing.

1. It seems as if I might not entirely understand the situation. What did you mean when you said Cheery Dog "shot it down"?
2. I was curious if anyone's reads had changed. We are nearing the end of day 3, so I also wanted everyone to establish their reads as a step towards making a final decision.
3. Can you go into any more detail? Was my assumption wrong?

1. I figured what needed to be happening for town to still win, and choose huntress as I felt out of the three of mala/you/her that it was most likely top be easier to work how I think today and tomorrow need to go in order for town to win.

I've explained why I have Lincolm as town currently haven't I, even if it is only generalised, it's still all I believe I need for town

(aka my team)

to win.

Mala came in with contributions during those posts and as they made sense, you and huntress end up as the scumteam, though it is possible I'm also bias because Mala was reading me town which is correct whereas you other two have been attacking for what whatever reasons. and the fact I'm confident in my Lincolm read means I've probably not going to bother rereading the thread at all and just stick with what I believe will win the game for town.

1. I don't understand what you are saying here. Can you please elaborate or reword this?
2. Bolded portion feels off. If you are town, then why did you feel the need to add that?
3. Alright, you have in fact explained your town reads on Lincolm and Malakittens. My problem is that you avoided explaining your read on Malakittens until Huntress asked you very specifically to explain it.


More later...

[Wickedestjr]

We've already been over this. The only thing I forgot to mention was that in post 124 I said I would be saying more about Wisdom and Kmd in a separate post (post 201) so that's where my reads on them were.

Alright, well that doesn't change the fact that your posts 83 and 124 contained IIoA.

Nope. The points I voted him for refer to comments he made on later posts by Kmd.

That is completely false.

Post 32-
-Wisdom accuses Kmd of being scum for ruining the potential of my 'joke' in his

post 13

.
-Wisdom accuses Kmd for the last paragraph of his

post 13

sounding 'pre-prepared'.
-Wisdom accuses Kmd for asking about my RVS vote in his

post 4

.
Posts he attacks; 4 and 13

Post 115-
-Wisdom continues arguing with Kmd over his

post 4

.
-Wisdom continues arguing with Kmd over his 'plan' from

post 13

.
Posts he attacks; 4 and 13

We both voted Wisdom for attacking posts 4 and 13. Your ignorance of this obvious detail is almost as bothersome as the detail itself. How could you possible argue against this?

I'm still waiting for replies from Lincolm but I'm ready and willing to vote Cheery now.

Vote: Cheery Dog

What prompted you to vote at this time specifically?

[Wickedestjr]

I add useless information that doesn't need said in brackets everywhere - that's just my internet personally.

A brief skim of your iso says that most/all of your bracket-enclosed comments were actually natural, necessary, and relevant to the corresponding non-bracket-enclosed text. The phrase "aka my team" was unneccessary and unnatural.

Also, if this is just your internet personality, then why do you continue making strange comments like this? You do this twice in your post 456;

I'm comparing the activity levels to what I think scum with daytalk would be doing. Or at least what I would probably be doing

if I were scum

with daytalk.

Lincolm is actually failing it now with his lack of activity, but I also know he is also being inactive elsewhere on the site. I don't know about any of you others, or why you're increasing your tempo only now when there's a chance you'll get a Cheery-mislynch happening.

If I'm to die today, I'd like to be dead by pluralrity at deadline rather than any hammers,

unless Lincolm or Mala are scum, in which case go ahead and hammer me please

.

Looking at where Lincolm asked if I were still supecting Mala, and the rest of his post it looks like he was still trying to avoid MYLO (also the fact he still apparently thinks he is a good lynch for today) I personally would actually rather have a scum lynched today and go to MYLO rather than do whatever is needed to not me lynched/have scum hammer me in LYLO. I see both options as plausible and am willing to take a risk to either by getting a suspect to hammer another.

First bolded comment- "if I were scum" = "i'm not scum now"
Second bolded comment- "if Lincolm or Mala are mafia then they should hammer me" = "i am town and i like it when mafia die". This comment is particularly irrelevant for three reasons; a.) if Lincolm and/or Mala were mafia neither of them would hammer you just because you asked them to, b.) you said in the last paragraph of this post that you'd prefer a mafia lynch to a mafia hammer, so why would you ask mafia to hammer you here?, c.) you said you thought Huntress and I were mafia.

The second bolded comment is so irrelevant that it is probably written for the purpose of establishing yourself as town, which is a scum tell and most certainly not a personality tell.

Wicked and mala expressed slight suspicion themselves of huntress, whereas huntress didn't express suspicion of either of to the other two, therefore it would be more likely to have my plan agreed with it we lynched huntress first - I was going for speed over smarts.

This seems like a very lazy and anti-town approach. Especially bad considering you said this;

I repeat, I don't have a titan read on mala - a few towny vibes that don't change the overall read except to push it slightly higher on the town side I didn't feel were needed to be said.

This is relevant to the points in my post 447. We're in a LyLo situation, we had just lynched/killed two town-aligned players, and you admitted you were uncertain about your reads. You explained your townread on Lincolm, yet you quickly jumped to the conclusion that Huntress and I were mafia based on "a few towny vibes" from Malakittens and you voted Huntress without giving/having any points against her. The problem with this is that you restricted your town read on Malakittens to being based on two of her posts at the start of day 3. It's hard to believe you are town because of this. What about days 1 and 2 or the rest of day 3? And how are you certain enough to vote with such little justification?

I'm feeling even more comfortable with this vote.

[Wickedestjr]

Just a reminder (Yes, I prefer see my enemies PM roles, not mine):

You win when there are at least as many mafia members alive as there are town members

Wicked. Why did you emphasize on CD's weird wording, but you didn't when Lincolm keeps emphasizing on how he's town and is reading scum PM's. He's said this quite a bit so far.

Both players have said things that stick out, but you are only commenting on one out of the two?

There's a big difference. Lincolm's "I am town" comment was actually relevant to the rest of his post here: he was explaining his reason for quoting the mafia win condition. I wouldn't have known why Lincolm felt the need to quote it if he hadn't added that comment. It actually felt pretty natural/genuine to me. Cheery Dog's comment, on the other hand, was irrelevant and unneccessary. The comment could have been added to any mention of the entire town

(aka my team)

and it would have made just as much sense (as exemplified in this very sentence).

It may not all be in brackets - but it's still my persona on the internet.

If you can show me an instance in the past where you, as town, made a comment like that, then I will probably retract this point.

Which is why I didn't vote then. I then thought slightly more and came up with what I think is a guaranteed plan for a town win when I did vote - not much time or posts had actually passed within those two thoughts which turned into my vote, I hadn't actually called you the scumteam then anyway - just too suspects and therefore my preferred lynchee hammerer pair.
I'm also fine with subituting one of you with Mala.

This still seems like a lazy and anti-town approach. This also fails to explain/justify this;

If I'm to die today, I'd like to be dead by pluralrity at deadline rather than any hammers, unless Lincolm or Mala are scum, in which case go ahead and hammer me please.

You've decided here that if you are to die then you want Huntress to also die.

Cheery Dog, how strong is your townread on Lincolm? (scale of 1 to 10)

In post 115 Wisdom quoted Kmd's post 95 and accused him of lying in it which in my opinion was a false accusation. He also misrepresented what Kmd said in post 86. These two points were the main reasons for my vote on Wisdom, not so much post 32 which I thought a bit of a stretch but was willing to wait and see where he went with it.

Their argument still revolved around the same points I had voted Wisdom for. Wisdom accused Kmd4390 for lying about post 4, which is a post Wisdom attacked in his post 32.

He was avoiding my questions.

Why do you think he would do that? I like the vote, but this seems like a weak reason.

[Wickedestjr]

The day is almost over. Have we agreed that we want CD and, if CD is town, Huntress to die today?

[Wickedestjr]

I don't have much time for any posts right now. I've been very busy the last two days. Not sure who I think the last mafia is- I have some rereading to do in light of the recent flips.

Malakittens, approximately how many games have you played with Huntress?

[Wickedestjr]

I'm working on a post right now. (other than this one)

[Wickedestjr]

Aww I'm dead.

Congrats town! I thought I might've had a chance to win it, but I was hoping nobody would point out I was confscum... and then Lincolm did. Out of curiosity, Mala, who did you think the mafia was on that final day before Lincolm offered to hammer?

I enjoyed being scumbuddies with Huntress and wish slimer could have stuck around longer. This is our QT link. It's not often I get a scum role pm so this was a lot of fun, although I wish I could have been more active- the business was genuine. Day 3 was very exciting, though- especially with all the vote movement throughout and the last minute decision.

In regard to the setup, I think this is actually pretty townsided. If town goes with Kmd's plan (which was perfectly valid/reasonable imo) then town essentially has eight lynches to get three mafia, which is more than enough. Also, if town can successfully 'clear' just one player, then it is even easier to win. Having said that, town still outplayed mafia imo and they deserved to win. And even though I believe it is unbalanced, I wouldn't mind trying it again in the future- it was very fun.

Also worth noting that nobody replaced out! It's pretty rare for an entire game to take place without somebody needing replacement, so I am thankful that we didn't have to deal with that. I look forward to playing with you guys in the future.

Thanks implosion!