Micro 130: Noughts & Crosses Mafia

[Mitillos]

Ha, edge again. Awesome.

Vote: Rondar

[Mitillos]

@Mod: Raffia rhymes with Mafia.

[Mitillos]

I'm not sure that using names for rhyming isn't cheating... It can only lead to some word being made up to rhyme with "month" or whatever and then when someone says "that's not a word", the response will be "Uh... it's... um... IT'S A NAME! That's right. It's a name. In fact, I'll name my firstborn that, to prove it." and then some poor child gets made fun of by bullies throughout school for having a stupid name. Then they read some book which they think is telling them to go kill someone, the rage that's been built up explodes and I kind of forgot where I was going with this.

So, tell me about your votes? How serious/joky were they?

[Mitillos]

I understand nothing from post 12.

@molla: Can't tell if trolling or serious?

[Mitillos]

@molla: We are definitely

not

lynching conf-town, unless it will lead to certain victory and there are no other choices that also lead to certain victory.
@Rondar: You're wrong. If we take a corner, we can guarantee that scum can't get a line. We also have a decent chance of getting a line, ourselves. If we take a side, we are forfeiting the chance at a line, unless scum just decide they want town to win. Or, again, we luck out and get one scum and have a potential line ending with the other scum, making it impossible for him to block us. So, yeah, first day is corner, as far as I'm concerned.

Also, where are Siv and Ven?

[Mitillos]

@Rondar: Your task is clear. Lead the scumhunt on Bitmap, Siv and saporo.

[Mitillos]

If we lynch on the ends and we end up mislynching, we will be in a far far worse situation than if we mislynch on a corner. So, unless you can convince me that e.g. molla is definitely scum, I will not vote a side. To illustrate further, the mafia part of this game allows us up to two mislynches. The tic-tac-toe part of this game will screw us over, if we let scum get the upper hand in that.
Also, Bitmap being opposed to corner-plays can also be taken as self-preservation. Which is not towny, but null.

Unvote

I'd like to hear more from everyone and give those who haven't said anything much, the chance to get in here and participate.

[Mitillos]

@Siv: Except that, if I were on a corner, I'd still be advocating going for corners on the first day. I'm far more interested in winning, than surviving.
And no, on 9 players, with 2 scum, 2 mislynches is exactly the amount we get before we're in LyLo.

If we hit the side, we give scum the control of the tic-tac-toe part of game. Remember that they also know exactly where everyone is. Consider this. Say they get the centre spot on N1 (which they probably will, anyway). What good is our side lynch? Nothing. And even if you think that the opposite side is all town (which is a bit irrelevant and also not a valid argument, but whatever), we still need to prevent ourselves from losing because of a line that scum forms. They can force us to vote on that side, by making the appropriate kills.

[Mitillos]

Well, let's agree to disagree, then. So, why is molla scum? This is to all 3 who are voting him.

[Mitillos]

@Mod: You're missing Siv's vote on Venrob. It was near the bottom of page 2.

[Mitillos]

You're right!

Vote: saporo

Counter-wagon, GO!

[Mitillos]

Nice to see you participating Bitmap.

[Mitillos]

O_o
I am confused and afraid.

[Mitillos]

Many happy returns.

[Mitillos]

He's saying that the scummy thing is an alternative interpretation of what Venrob did, so don't be quick to dismiss him as VI.

[Mitillos]

...Are we really going to go down the "open to interpretation" road, at multiple levels? It's what I understood serra to be saying to Siv in post 83 and he confirmed this in post 97.

[Mitillos]

And I'm saying that serra was saying that there are multiple ways to interpret Venrob's actions, which is exactly what you are saying, as well...

[Mitillos]

@Siv: If you have stuff to add, you should do it quickly.

[Mitillos]

Yes. So, while we're in twilight, he should give his final reads, or tell us if he was scum and be done with it.

[Mitillos]

What claim exactly would you ask for, in this game? There's only an innocent child, 6 VTs and 2 scum. Asking for a claim is the same as asking "Are you scum?".

[Mitillos]

That was to Blueberry. He was the one who referred to BB's sig first.

[Mitillos]

So, Siv. Now that there's a real hammer, how about revisiting my previous question to you?

[Mitillos]

So, serra, want to hop onto this cool sapo wagon?

[Mitillos]

Exactly. She has done nothing. No attempts to scumhunt, even her vote isn't on anyone. It's like she saw the Siv wagon forming and decided to sit back and watch. Also, my wagon is terrible, because it's against both town win-cons.

[Mitillos]

Yes. He is. But if he is not and gets mislynched, it's a far worse outcome than if sapo is not and gets mislynched. If both are equally scummy, the corner-side difference should be a tie-breaker, even if you don't think that sides should be excluded. Basically, the choice should be the one that minimises our chances of loss.

[Mitillos]

@Mod: Could we get a Venrob prod?

[Mitillos]

sera is absolutely right. The point of lynching a corner is to strengthen our position. Doing something equivalent to lynching a side doesn't do this.
Also, lining up lynches is scummy. I can totally see BB as scum now. I won't vote him yet, because I'd rather find if his partner is on a corner, in which case, I'd rather go for him first, just in case.

Unvote

[Mitillos]

@Siv: It wasn't empty. BB is prob-scum. That means sapo is probably not his partner. Why would I stay on the wagon that prob-scum is on?

[Mitillos]

@Siv: Read what I said in my unvote post. I'd rather look for scum in the corners first, if possible.

[Mitillos]

Vote: BBmolla

I hope I don't regret this.

[Mitillos]

Some of you guys should seriously really read the rules... There is no such thing as a no-lynch. It's a compulsive game.

[Mitillos]

If we lynch Rondar, serra or me AND if this is a mislynch, we lose. So, if anyone wants to push any of those 3 wagons, they had better be 100% on the guilt. I have town reads on both Rondar and serra right now, so I will not support either.
Venrob/CDB and BB were the other two people on the Siv wagon.
At the moment, I'm in favour of the BB wagon, but I'll hold off for a bit, until I reread stuff.

@Bitmap: You are voting BB. I hope you realise that you'd better be pretty certain of his guilt, because if he gets lynched, you're automatically the target for the night-kill. That is, mafia won't get to choose a target; you will be it (see post 1). Are you OK with this?

[Mitillos]

Yes. Yes, it is.

If we lynch you today, Bitmap dies automatically tonight. That's what the last point in post 1 is saying.

[Mitillos]

Must be a really long trip home...

[Mitillos]

I disagree with sera. I think that, if there is a scum in {BB, Bitmap}, the better board arrangement would be from a Bitmap lynch, if only by a bit. And if neither of them is scum, we lose the game anyway, by voting one of them, which seems to be what will happen today.

I would also like to hear more from Bitmap, sapo and Rondar. BB, please unvote, until there has been some more conversation.

[Mitillos]

@Mod: Could you prod sapo, if you have not already done so?

[Mitillos]

If you believe that the scumteam is sapo and one of {BB, Bit}, then Deli is probably the better lynch choice.

[Mitillos]

Looking back, I think I should clarify that.

Say sapo is scum and her partner is in {BB, Bit}.
If we lynch sapo, then Deli dies and we have to either be 100% of getting scum, or lynch me. If we're not 100%, I must be lynched, at which point scum will kill and put us in LyLo.
Instead, say we lynch Deli. Then sapo gets NK'ed, then we lynch Bit, so then BB has to be the NK.

[Mitillos]

Good point. Yeah, I take back what I said about Bit being a better choice than BB.

[Mitillos]

Need more from sapo and Rondar, now that his V/LA is about to end. Particularly sapo who has added almost nothing helpful to the game. Look at post 280. She says that BBis 100% town (which I don't really get, but whatever, let's go with it) and then does the one thing that, if it goes through, ensures his death overnight. And the whole Bitmap/BB essentially dying together is something that had been discussed quite thoroughly earlier. So, either she's not reading anything, or she wants people she considers 100% town dead. If anyone is convinced that at least one of Bitmap and BB is 100% town, they should be looking for scum elsewhere, just in case both of them are town.

@Deli: What do you think of sapo? I think she's scum and would advocate your lynch, to get her killed overnight.

[Mitillos]

@Deli: What about the other part? If sapo is scum, I think it's a better idea to lynch you, rather than her, to maintain some strength in the board. Of course, if both of you are town, we probably lose by lynching either of you, anyway.

[Mitillos]

If nothing significant happens, I'm hammering BB in 3 hours.

[Mitillos]

@serra: Oh right. I completely forgot about the plurality rule. Yeah, sure, I'm happy to wait to hear more.

[Mitillos]

@serra: At the time, I went by the assumption that sapo and Deli were both town, for some reason. I was wrong. When I reviewed things, I corrected myself.
Anyway, I think serra is town.

Vote: Rondar

[Mitillos]

@serra: What are you confused about? You asked about post 274. I said it when I was under the impression that both sapo and Deli were town. Because I figured the Bitmap lynch would give us a slightly better chance of getting both scum. Later, I changed my mind about the alignments, so the BB lynch made more sense, than the Bitmap one.

If you're confused about why I believed you were town, it was sapo's Bitmap vote. It made no sense, if you were her partner.

In any case, you didn't hammer Rondar, so you're town, or are trolling us really hard. I don't think you'd do that. Look at sapo's post 52 on day 1. She came in just to question the Rondar wagon, then disappeared for a long time when I voted her. She got worried about her scumpartner.

[Mitillos]

Wrong choice.

[Mitillos]

Why would you listen to the guy who used a self-meta defense when no one brought up any meta-arguments against his play?

[Mitillos]

@Rondar: Using self-meta is not the issue. I have used it too. The point I was making was that you used a defense of behaviour, when my attack on you was 1) PoE and 2) associative from sapo. You were to eager to say "I can't be scum, I don't play like that as scum". If you see what I mean.

In any case, good game.

[Mitillos]

I have used it too, in the past, I mean.

[Mitillos]

Well, my D1 wagon on sapo was to get her and others to talk more. She was a corner, so it would be just as good.