Micro 170 - Empking Mafia

[Varsoon]

I don't usually do RVS, but this is a 7-day game, so I'unno.

Let's just assume no PRs and 1/3 scum, then?

[Varsoon]

Yeah, so there's 2 out of 7.

Regardless, I'd like this to actually be a day where content gets produced and we have something to work with, rather than taking a stab in the dark with our lynch. It'd be nice if everyone could be active.

[Varsoon]

I like this Hiraki kid. He empkings like a true empking.

Can we please have some more activity? Our day ends in like 6 days.
I guess the weekend will be more active?

[Varsoon]

..................................................................................................................

Varsoon might be scum, idk....complaining about activity while not really saying anything to further discussion?

It's more along the lines of the idea that there's just seven players and they're not incredibly active so far. I'm just as guilty of this as you guys are. Yeah, it's RVS, but things can be said.

For instance,

In post 13, TAM's mention of linking the scum team via flavor seems like a weak way to put an argument on town. I'm much more on the side of Hiraki in holding that the game should just be played like a traditional mafia setup. To inject speculation on flavor seems like it's inviting too much RVS speculation without really cutting at who is scum or not based on play.

or perhaps I should speculate on Nero's post 15, which postures itself as scum by setting up a policy lynch and using the word 'kill'.

Maybe I should be more critical of the post I'm responding to, given that you suspect me as scum but don't put a vote there and seem to be trying to see town's reaction to what you've said rather than asking me directly about my posts.

Regardless, coming up with a hard case on someone with so little content is laughable, and will lead to mislynches. If town's going to win this, then town needs to be active. We have six days. Let's make the most of them, and give each other lots of content in order to better judge each other's alignment. Scum would prefer for town to do nothing for the next six days and make a lynch based on very little information. I'd rather give them that pleasure.

[Varsoon]

But that's why I don't do RVS. It's too much baseless speculation and, ultimately, amounts to reaction testing.

[Varsoon]

It's more along the lines of the idea that there's just seven players and they're not incredibly active so far. I'm just as guilty of this as you guys are. Yeah, it's RVS, but things can be said.

I'm super glad you checked that everyone else posted frequently yesterday.

Unvote, Vote: Varsoon

This is scum trying to act helpful.

Six players posted out of seven, and most of the posts were RVS vote parking and speculation.

Just trying to take the game into a direction, although I don't like how fast my wagon is building. Hiraki, do you feel pressure to start a new wagon up since yours is at 2 votes coming out of RVS?

[Varsoon]

I'd like to hear more from Varsoon. I also want to hear from Angel and obvious alt orozorro or w/e.

Lemme know what you'd like to know.
I know it seems a bit hypocritical to say that RVS is a lot of speculation and reaction mining while I was doing just that, but, honestly, I'm trying my best to get some worthwhile discussion started.

It's more along the lines of the idea that there's just seven players and they're not incredibly active so far. I'm just as guilty of this as you guys are. Yeah, it's RVS, but things can be said.

I'm super glad you checked that everyone else posted frequently yesterday.

Unvote, Vote: Varsoon

This is scum trying to act helpful.

Six players posted out of seven, and most of the posts were RVS vote parking and speculation.

Just trying to take the game into a direction, although I don't like how fast my wagon is building. Hiraki, do you feel pressure to start a new wagon up since yours is at 2 votes coming out of RVS?

Why do you think it is necessary to move out from RVS on page 2 itself, like you said not all the players aren't here yet.. What's the hurry...
I understand your disappointment about your early wagon but if you realize that it is you who pushed for it..

The hurry lies in the fact that we've got less than a week to make a lynch, and I'd like it to have as much content to go off of as possible. I suppose it stems from the last few games I've been in where town did nothing until the deadline, then ran around like chickens with their heads cut off, accusing everyone until a bad wagon was pushed and town got flipped. I can understand it happening once, but several times across multiple games? That's not cool. I'd like our game to be one that isn't so disorganized, chaotic, and easily guided by scum.

[Varsoon]

^ how do we don't know that you're scum and want to look like that you're trying to organize it?
doing soemthing is okay but overdoing is scummy...

By that logic, I've been scum in a lot of games.

I'd rather over do something than do nothing at all.

[Varsoon]

Lemme know what you'd like to know.
I know it seems a bit hypocritical to say that RVS is a lot of speculation and reaction mining while I was doing just that, but, honestly, I'm trying my best to get some worthwhile discussion started.

Except that's not the vibe I got from your post at all. Someone has to start suspecting someone. You seemed to be complaining about my speculation.

Ah, sorry if that came across weird.

What do you think about the other players?

[Varsoon]

@Orozorro: I don't like participating in RVS. I'd rather do something to get players engaged and out of random voting and flinging baseless accusations until something sticks.

Yeah, that should definitely read "I'd rather not give them that pleasure."


I'm kinda curious as to what AA means about balancing it out, myself.

Orozorro, what do you think of the other players?

[Varsoon]

@orozo: I usually don't jump into games until a few days into the first day, but this game has really short day cycles, so I feel like I need to be way more active.

@AA: Makes sense to me now. Yeah, I have been playing really dangerously as of late, hoping to get scum to slip up, but it usually backfires.

@Nero: I like Hiraki's punctuality and I'm willing to work with people who have responded to me so far. Currently feels like people are getting more active, so more to come about people so far. I'm more suspicious of lurkers by nature, but I feel like someone in the more active group could also be scum.

[Varsoon]

I'll stick with AA9, then.

@Hiraki: Harsh.

[Varsoon]

Stuff between Nero and TAM is throwing me off.

Anyway, I'll provide some more articulated input soon, but it's finals week, so I won't be as active for a bit.

[Varsoon]

Don't really agree with Nero's reasoning as of now.

C'mon guys, we've only got 17 hours.

That said, guess votes need to go places.

Nero

Just seems to be throwing things at the town wall and seeing what sticks. Really scummy method of play.
Every time he writes 'kill', it reads as hard scumbluffing to me. Most town'll say lynch. Could be reaction testing on his part, though.
Lots of posts put accusations but no pressure, like he's waiting for others to start up a wagon based on what he's said. Here's some examples of suspicion put down without a vote: 22, 23, 26, 32, 34, 37, 59, 71, 84, 88, 97...

I don't like his rationale behind his vote on TAM and I don't like the baiting he's been doing. Furthermore, the quick swap to AA9 when the TAM wagon didn't pick up speed reads as really scummy to me.

@Jacob: I'd like to know why you plant a vote rather than "X is scum".
Just planting votes does nothing for town.

[Varsoon]

Ach, messed up my vote. ANYWAYS:

VOTE: Nero

[Varsoon]

I don't like using Meta against people.
Each game exists solely within the confines of that game.
Therefore, I pretty much ignore meta-related accusations and defenses.

[Varsoon]

Nero, I'd like you to address the points I brought up against you, because, as of now, I'm still confident in my vote.

I could care less about scum/town posture or how players typically play scum/town. AA9's alignment should be obvious from this game alone.

[Varsoon]

Nero, could you articulate why you think AA9 is scum?
To be honest, I always have trouble reading AA9, but I've gotten better with that over time.
I'd just like you to lay out more of a case than the seeming-OMGUS that is 128.

[Varsoon]

but Oro should prob be the lynch today. Dude lurked like 4 days and then swoops in and echo's Varsoon + and puts me ay l-1.

vote:Oro

Nero, remember what I said about throwing everything at a wall to see what sticks?

Which is it, AA9 or Oro?

I understand using your vote as pressure, but right now it's reading a lot more like you shooting for whatever wagon has wheels.
I get that AA9's accusations of you seem like an OMGUS, but voting her back seems even more OMGUS.

As far as lurking goes, there's plenty of people who have been absent for at least four days now.
The echo and putting you at L-1 does seem pretty bad though, but, honestly, I built a solid case on you and I'd be surprised if no one else jumped on that wagon. Oro also articulated his vote, and so I wasn't so suspicious of echoing.

Honestly, it feels like Hiraki, AA9, Nero, and I are the only active players. I'd like to hear more from the other half of the game.

[Varsoon]

Vote Count 6

Nero Cain (3) - ArcAngel9, Varsoon, orozorro,
Varsoon (2) - The Acting Method, JacobSavage
JacobSavage (1) - Hiraki
orozorro (1) - Nero Cain

Can you include how many votes it takes to lynch?

[Varsoon]

Hence why scum echo since you'll be less likely to suspect Oro.

Given there are 2 scum in this game, I don't see why its bad that I'm speculating a Oro/AA team.

AA seems to have a high fluff count and is being glib and OMGUSy. Its not good town play, imo. Could she be town? Maybe. Its not like everyone with bad town play flips scum that's why I'm thinkin' we lynch oro. Also note the contradictions in his post.

I'll have to consider that. Honestly, it seems like you're trying to get me off your wagon, but it is a bit suspicious that Oro would make that sort of play after a few days of being absent. What contradictions are you talking about?

[Varsoon]

TAM, I see you down there.
What do you think about Nero's play?
Also, how do you feel about the game right now, so far?

P-EDIT: Can you speak towards what is currently happening?
I feel like Nero's way of handling that question was weird, but there's more going on now.

[Varsoon]

I don't agree with going after an inactive solely on the basis that Policy Lynches are bad, but with a good deal of the players in the inactive pile, it's hard to make the call that none are scum.
We've got 9 hours left. I'll try to be online for most of that time. In about 30 minutes, I'll be gone for roughly an hour, but I shall return.

[Varsoon]

I know. You shouldn't be updating me on this nearly as much as the other players.

[Varsoon]

Assuming that if the day ends without a lynch, there's a nolynch, we've got about 4 hours until a nolynch happens. This is probably the worst scenario for town.

[Varsoon]

Jeeze, Nero, do you make a single post that isn't accusing someone or OMGUSing?

Lynching you might be bad, but there's enough players without a vote on you to push through a lynch on anyone else. Make a damn good case and put a vote somewhere if you don't want to be mislynched. Prove your town so that your flip doesn't have to be the thing to do it, because as of now, I don't trust you.

I'd rather have a day 1 mislynch than a day 1 no lynch. The only info we get is from the night kill, and scum still wins in the same amount of time.

[Varsoon]

Are you sane? My vote is on Oro, I've explained why I think Oro should be the lynch. You pretending like I haven't is lol.

I know you've mentioned your reasons for voting Oro, but I'd like one decisive post explaining why you think he's the best vote today.

ok, hammer the town cop, Tam.

Now it -really- feels like you're trying to avoid getting lynched by saying whatever you can. No one was even asking for a role claim. Do town PRs usually role-claim on D1 when they're under pressure? It seems like a bad move no matter what alignment you are.

[Varsoon]

So....TAM declares intent to hammer and you think I should just willingly take the lynch? lolololol

No, I think you should make a good case for you being town and a damn good case for your scum suspects, especially who you have a vote on.
It's like you're just rolling over and asking to be lynched, rather than doing any pro-town work.
All you've done is claim cop.

[Varsoon]

You've made baseless accusations of everyone so far, never stuck to one person, and swapped your vote from wagon to wagon in what reads to me as opportunistic voting, hoping someone jumps on a wagon you start. Instead of backing up your cases when I've asked you to, you've just attacked me. I feel like the case that I built on you in 109 was incredibly solid, given the amount of content I had to work with, and your response in 147 was, essentially, "Okay, but no."

At least I vote with integrity and answer people's questions/explain myself when asked to elaborate. All I ask is that you do the same, especially considering the fact you're at L-1 and the day's about to end and TAM already voiced intent to hammer.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, I read and responded to that.

[Varsoon]

1 day 20 hours?

Empkinging hard.

Nero, what did you 'cop' out?

Vote: Nero

[Varsoon]

Because you're the cop, apparently?

[Varsoon]

Oh, guess you didn't find the scum.
Well, that's okay.

[Varsoon]

That's a great idea oro! Lets tell the scum who to shoot tonight. How does outing my investigation benefit the town?

I also find it a little strange that you are claiming that I'm voting you for no reason.

I'd also still like you to explain why you were ignoring this game for 4 RL days yesterday?

That's what Oro is saying. It lies in logic that if you're cop, you probably investigated one of your scum suspects, but hit town and are holding back from saying who it was because you don't want to confirm their role to scum.
Except by outright saying "Let's tell the scum who to shoot tonight," you're admitting that you investigated someone with a PR, which isn't a very town thing to do. Why would scum want to shoot vanilla town rather than you, especially with your cop claim? You basically just admitted that whoever you investigated was a PR. That doesn't seem town to me. I could WIFOM the shit out of this, but c'mon. Defend your claim and defend your night action. Did you kill AA9?

Early role-claims are terrible.
See what happens?

[Varsoon]

why the fuck didn't you idiots kill nero

Vote: JacobSavage

Savage/Varsoon

let's get this done

I'm flattered to be your sustained scum-pick, tsun~raki.
What's Savage done to become my buddy?

[Varsoon]

>Implying you can greentext on Mafiascum.net

[Varsoon]

Tsun~raki, yare yare.

[Varsoon]

There's always warmth in my arms, Tsun~raki.

[Varsoon]

Except that you weren't lynched, even when TAM expressed intent to hammer.

I'm going to respond to anything you write, regardless of who is directed to, because you're my top scum suspect and you've done nothing that makes you more town in my eyes.

Hiraki's just mad 'cus I'm teasing him more than anyone else does and it makes him all hot in the head. He's voting me in every game we're in together. :3

Honestly, Nero, if you just keep calling a scumteam and night-killing the other person in your 'team' while pushing hard for the lynch of the other one, you're not going to win. Right now, that's what it seems is happening.
It's also funny that Hiraki did nothing other than suspect me as scum and you immediately cleared him of the suspicions you had beforehand, buddying instantly when he sheeped your vote.

[Varsoon]

I'm not really seeing Oro just because he's nubzorz but Varsoon death would be pretty neat.

Unvote, Vote: Varsoon

vote:Varsoon

I think Oro and Varsoon are independently scummy but Varsoon defending/responding to a post directed at Oro gives me bad vibes.

+ they likely have a role cop since they are trying to push me as one.

You've been mentioning PRs a lot for a game that doesn't have a public setup.

[Varsoon]

Hiraki's just mad 'cus I'm teasing him more than anyone else does and it makes him all hot in the head. He's voting me in every game we're in together. :3

Yeah, it's not like I've called you and Jacob scum from Day One or anything.

Adorable, but the Pisces flipping when opportunity arises for either of your wagons is just lame. I could have called two people scum on Day 1 and stuck to either of them, but it wouldn't make me any more town. You entered game and haven't substantiated an argument against anyone. You just put votes down, and because you have some integrity between your two non-RVS votes, you're somehow confirmed town and right on your assumptions? Oh, tsun~raki, go heat up your Kid's Cuisine.


@Nero:
You claimed cop. I'm entertaining the idea of it being true. I guess my noob is showing here, but can a normal cop tell if someone is a PR or do they just get a PM that says Scum or Town?
If the later is the case, then disregard my argument in 192.
However,
I also never asked you what your cop-PM said, I only asked who you 'cop'd. Check yourself, bro.
Either way, I'm trying to find some way to confirm that you're not just bullshitting us about your PR in an unknown setup.
I'm also trying to pressure you to figure out why you swapped your vote right away at the start of D2. As it stands, it seems like it's based off of information that only you hold, likely due to your PR?

unvote

I don't want your lynch going through until I get answers. Something feels wrong about this.

[Varsoon]

Blah, thought you had a vote on someone else at the end of D1 and put it on Oro.
Finals have really kicked my ass, sorry.


I'm hoping that who you 'investigated' helps me gauge if you're really cop or just lying/scum.

[Varsoon]

TAM and Jacob need to be more active. It's hard to read them, considering the only active players are really me and Nero, with Hiraki occasionally poking his head in.

[Varsoon]

Fair enough.
There's five players that aren't me, and at least two of them have to be scum.
Your PR claim and then the fact your lynch didn't go through/you weren't NK'd is what really made me think you were scum, but at this point, it's equally likely that the NK wasn't on you solely so town would think that.
I don't know why scum didn't kill Hiraki, who was the only player who wasn't on your wagon. If you're town, it'd make more sense to kill him, then just have your wagon pushed through on D2.
Ugh, I don't know what to think.

[Varsoon]

TAM, Nero doesn't really seem to have a way to confirm cop-hood. I've been trying to figure it out for awhile here.

Do you think Hiraki would play scum the way he's been going about it?

[Varsoon]

Also, I can't decipher your sentence on Orzo. What do you mean? Do you want me to give a read on him?

[Varsoon]

Anyway, I had Oro in my town-bucket, especially since AA9 flipped town and she was on the same wagon, but now I'm not so sure. I guess I'll see what he has to say. Going to sleep.

[Varsoon]

I agree with Nero on the WIFOM, but if you know someone is town, and you flip cop, then we can have that person as confirmed town and we don't risk a mislynch on them.


@Jacob: Are you still sure Hiraki's scum? Whyso, or whyno?
@Oro: I think you're grouping Nero in the scum pile too soon. I do suppose we only have 18 hours, but you seem eager to claim there's a scum-team of him and someone not-you. I agree that I don't like how the cop-claim turned out, but I'd like to discuss something other than Nero's to-cop or not-to-cop scenario

[Varsoon]

I just can't trust Nero's whole
"I'm a cop. Uh... I did Hiraki yesterday and he was innocent, I swear."
It's easy to say you know people would be innocent after the flip, Nero.
As scum, you could also easily call Jacob another innocent investigate, in case his wagon flipped town, giving you more town cred, and, while Jason was alive, he'd probably give you his own town following.

Nero, you've been pretty adamant about Oro being scum for awhile, why didn't you investigate him?

Honestly, your flip will give town way more info than any WIFOM situation.

Vote: Nero

[Varsoon]

Now tell me what your real alignment is and why you haven't been using your cop powers on your top scum suspect.

[Varsoon]

That is, if you even are a cop.

[Varsoon]

We figured in the QT that TAM was a better player to keep alive because he'd probably put another vote on Nero, considering how things turned out.

I really like this setup, if it's a bit loaded in scum's interests. Might be less loaded with only one scum, or 10 players?
Still, two cops with two redirecting scum is neat.

[Varsoon]

I honestly was hoping that we could keep Hiraki alive as long as possible just so I could mess with him.


Anyway, it was a fun game, although I feel like it was a bit obv that I was scum.

[Varsoon]

Yup.
Worked out.