Micro 303: Tarot uPick - Game Over!

[Medea the Alien]

Who can I claim masons with.... how about Orci.


ORCI AND I ARE MASONS; TIME TO WRECK SHIT LETS GO BRO

[Medea the Alien]

So Kagami's ISO seems no less useful than people like TIP yet she merits three votes, at least two of which have no reasoning. Not liking the wagon at all, and TIP-scum wouldn't surprise me.

TIP, one post to convince me I shouldn't go whine at Cabd to move our vote to you, please.

Nazarene, you hate the orc votes yet your recap of orc doesn't exactly present him as a town read. Why the discrepancy?

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

pretty sure kagami is scum, just finished a scum game with him
ask gif

Great, but why do I have to ask GiF? You apparently played the game, make a case.

So Kagami's ISO seems no less useful than people like TIP yet she merits three votes, at least two of which have no reasoning. Not liking the wagon at all, and TIP-scum wouldn't surprise me.

TIP, one post to convince me I shouldn't go whine at Cabd to move our vote to you, please.

Nazarene, you hate the orc votes yet your recap of orc doesn't exactly present him as a town read. Why the discrepancy?

--PA

You missed the disappeared pages.

I know I read some of it, but I don't remember it in detail. Cabd might have better recollection once we sync, but if you remember relevant highlights I'm all ears.

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

VOTE: Medea the Alien

Daycop guilty.

Not joking.

Cute, nati, cute.

Mad props for it not being a faked dayvig instead.

[Medea the Alien]

We both know you're not a daycop, and ffery isn't a bastard mod even if you were, so move on. I mean, your trap worked nati. Just look at it. Giffy going out of his way to avoid posting while posting up a storm elsewhere, and PN looking to frame it as a scumclaim. And all of a sudden everyone's "surefire" kagami reads go out the window.

[Medea the Alien]

We both know you're not a daycop, and ffery isn't a bastard mod even if you were, so move on.

Day cops appear in non-bastard games too...

Day cops with incorrect results; and or hidden millers, however, do not. And this isn't the sort of shit natiscum pulls either.

[Medea the Alien]

SSK can hydra quote later.

But presumably,

if you're town,

Cabd, you know I wouldn't fake a daycop like this just for reactions.

So you really have no choice but to listen to my judgment.

The bolded pretty much tanks the utility of your reaction test, so I'm comfortable moving on to considering what we got out of this.

Here's our current wagon: you, PN, Nazarene, orcinus.

Overall, lots of bravado, little interest in questioning what's happening.

You obviously had to vote there, and unless you're scum with Kagami I see a lot of downsides and not much benefit to scum-you in kicking this off. Probably town.

PN went from a vote they weren't interested in supporting (GIF) to Kagami for the lolz, to mindless sheeping a fake day cop. Likely scum.

Nazarene-wise, the bravado of 'of course we were going to push Medea' is absurd, but isn't likely from scum. Seeing as our town flip would make them look pretty bad for saying this at all. Much easier as scum just to pretend you believed the gambit and hop on quietly. Likely town.

Orcinus needs to catch up, yet has no problem putting down an L-1 vote on a clear gambit. He can stay on our scum list even in the face of TIP's utter uselessness. Which, Nazarene, is pretty emblematic of why I was happy to leave our vote on orcinus here. (You asked about my take on the Kagami wagon: it was weak. Pressure, sure, but it looked more like wagoning for the sake of running someone up than being interested in listening to her points in response. I'm not confident on her being town, but I am pretty sure there was scum on her wagon at some point, either PN or TIP. Probably not both given the flimsiness of the arguments.)

No reaction thus far from TIP, GIF, or Alduskkel. I'd have preferred to wait for at least one more of them, but like I said, blown reaction test is blown.

Kagami...I'm not sure if she's setting herself up to be 'convinced' by the claim or is generally hesitant. I do remember town-Kagami as reasonably confident from a Micro game where she was JK (279?). So the lack of opinion here pings a bit.

Kagami, what's your updated take on how your wagon assembled and those people who hopped off in favor of us?

My personal reads ATM: Town (Garruk, Nazarene) slight town (Kagami, GIF) null (Alduskkel) slight scum (TIP) scum (PN, orcinus).

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

Next time don't fuck with The World, Cabd. I don't do things stupidly and I was hoping you'd just play along.

Hey, I wanted to wait and get more info out of it. Not my fault you slipped up.

So you know what I got out of it, and whenever Cabd shows up again I'm sure we'll get his further insights. What's your take on people's reactions?

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

The Collective is displeased.
UNVOTE:

Why displeased? Didn't you get information out of it? Or is this 'we're displeased that we aired our true scum colors for naught?'

So who we lynching?

Oh dear lord. Conveniently misses the ENTIRE gambit, wanders back in like nothing happened right afterwards just in time to avoid having to react. Cabd can move this vote if he disagrees, but seriously.

VOTE: TIP

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

Well yeah I saw the daycop shit and it was obviously fake. There is absolutely no reason to comment on it...

During or afterwards? How do you like your Kagami vote after seeing the entire wagon go haring off after a fake day cop?

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

Hey, I wanted to wait and get more info out of it. Not my fault you slipped up.

So you know what I got out of it, and whenever Cabd shows up again I'm sure we'll get his further insights. What's your take on people's reactions?

--PA

I legitimately did not intend to just be a reaction test.

...OK. I have no standing to be annoyed about someone faking alignment knowledge of another player, but I would like to know either what you got out of it or what besides your own inconsistency prevented it from working the way you envisioned.

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

I was 100% trying to lynch Medea, Tiershift.

Cabd said Etna was from a video game but didn't know what you meant otherwise. And then he pointed me at the wiki page. Which, since I know nothing about video games, was entertaining but didn't really tell me anything about your plan.

If you wanted us lynched, you didn't have to retract your claim. It likely would have dumped the town in LyLo when we flipped town and likely-town-you got strung up the next day, but it could have happened. Now that you're done with whatever your master plan was, if you want to get into it with us, go for it. Because I'm not interested in dealing with vague suspicions for however long we're alive.

You asked about my take on the Kagami wagon: it was weak. Pressure, sure, but it looked more like wagoning for the sake of running someone up than being interested in listening to her points in response. I'm not confident on her being town, but I am pretty sure there was scum on her wagon at some point, either PN or TIP. Probably not both given the flimsiness of the arguments.

Forgot to respond to this.

Are you saying that even if she is scum, there was scum on the wagon? Why do you feel so confident that there was scum on the wagon?

-Tier

I think it was an easy wagon for scum to hop on and off with impunity. I didn't see much evidence that the people on the wagon were listening to what Kagami had to say very well. And there wasn't a lot of evidence that some of the wagoners were trying to convince others of the validity of the case. Perfect scum camouflage.

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

Sure you do, nati. Btw @orci; PN is fuzzy incarnate, make of that what you will.

[Medea the Alien]

Well when you two are done with playtime, I'll hang out... tomorrow. It's late and sleep n shit. Penguin'll be up though.

[Medea the Alien]

For the fun between Garruk and Medea, for now happy to move Medea to town, even though I wasn't quite satisfied with the back-and-forth.

What weren't you satisfied with? As I think I've made clear, I'd like to get maximum value out of this, and it's already helped persuade me of town-Nazarene and likely town-Garruk. Scum reads have only solidified, but I'll take the definitive impact on town reads.

I'm not sure I've ever played with Bert outside of marathon/skype Mafia, but doesn't he usually town it up when he's town?

In asking this, I assume you think he hasn't towned it up. Is your read on them currently the absence of a town read or an actual scum read? With reasons, please.

i really didn't like cabd's push on me

he's normally much lazier in the early game and doesn't do shit

he got off his ass to misread me??

and now that read dissipated?

weird man

Alert: we still think you're scum. We'd just rather vote for TIP who also seems reasonably likely to flip scum and apparently isn't going to do anything useful. You LOLhopped a clear reaction test with little thought beyond dealing with it as inconspicuously as possible, but you dealt with it. That TIP strolled in afterwards and didn't even acknowledge it happened is inexcusable. Hence the vote. Although I suspect Cabd would be happy to wrest our vote back to you.

gaiden thinks that kagami is scum for refusing to vote medea, that is his scumread

When Kagami posted we were at L-1. The way the above reads to me is more like Gaiden is insistent that Kagami is scum and is pointing out anything he can think of that might stick to explain the read. Kagami questioning the claim at all seems town to me. Unless Kagami is scum with Garruk, scum should have wanted the fake wagon on us to go through, especially when they can blame someone else for it the next day. Only way that doesn't work is with a Kagami-Garruk scum team who decided to sacrifice one of their own to see us dead. Which, I realize Cabd is scary, but the idea of scum queuing up for a 1:1 trade in a game of this size is absurd. Even if it made the other one come out smelling like roses, it's a very tunnely theory and I'd have expected Kagami to react more definitively in that case.

Garruk's dodging the question of what they got out of it/wanted to get out of it and claiming to still want us dead with zero explanation is admittedly bad. But the Kagami wagon is still worse, and Garruk only works with Kagami-scum, so I'll just ask again: Garruk, please discuss your own gambit. With something other than lyncher invocations, please and thank you.

--PA

P-edit: PN, you may not have known it was a clear gambit, but we knew it was and scum knew it was barring a set-up with a third party, unlikely in a Micro. As such I'm comfortable analyzing the reactions in terms of how town and scum were likely to behave. More in my next post, as I think this deserves more than a P-edit.

[Medea the Alien]

PN went from a vote they weren't interested in supporting (GIF) to Kagami for the lolz, to mindless sheeping a fake day cop. Likely scum.

Nazarene-wise, the bravado of 'of course we were going to push Medea' is absurd, but isn't likely from scum. Seeing as our town flip would make them look pretty bad for saying this at all. Much easier as scum just to pretend you believed the gambit and hop on quietly. Likely town.

Orcinus needs to catch up, yet has no problem putting down an L-1 vote on a clear gambit.

He can stay on our scum list even in the face of TIP's utter uselessness.

low effort play can appear scummy re: the read on PN, so I can see that I guess.

On the other hand -> Bolded is a weak point without flips. Saying this is worse than Nazarene because "Nazarene's bravado is too absurd for scum" is a complete non-reason. Well, hard to believe.

it really looks like this reads list was made just to draw attention away from all the attention brought onto them by Garruk's fakeclaim gambit.

there is no tip-toeing around it. the bottom line is it was NOT a clear gambit. that's why they're called gambits. I know because I believed Nat was telling the truth. So this position they're taking doesn't make that much sense.

To elaborate: your approach to our wagon was scummy. You didn't show any interest in thinking beyond having an apparent result fall into your lap. You wanted other people to hop on to obscure your own easy jump, and you didn't consider anything about the claim before or after doing so. It's scum opting not to look a gift horse in the mouth as far as I can tell.

So according to you, what happens if Kagami had hammered like you wanted and our town flip is out there? Who's going to get the most attention after Garruk? The one who avoided standing out or the one who cheerleaded the lynch? Probably the one who claimed to have a scum read on us all along and who would have been directly proven wrong? Sounds like a pretty good piece of bait for a follow-up lynch if I'm right about Garruk being town.

And if you think my discussing the claim and the wagon and continuing to pester Garruk to talk about it is trying to draw attention away from it, I just...don't even know what game you're reading.

As far as it being a gambit, I think you should consider that almost half the player list knew it was a gambit. Us, Garruk, and the scum, assuming Garruk is indeed town. Again, third party considerations screw with this, but for a Micro odds of a third party being in play are low. Do you truly believe that it was only town reacting there? If not, scum reacted as well, and trying to figure out how to separate out that group is quite useful.

Garruk only works with Kagami-scum, so I'll just ask again:

so you see the timing of the fakeclaim (when Kagami was at lynch -1) as more than purely coincidental?

Not necessarily. If Garruk is scum, the only reason they have to disrupt that L-1 wagon is to save a buddy. Letting the wagon play out with Garruk-scum and Kagami-town likely nets scum information if Kagami is forced to claim upon hammer intent. Which, on this player list, seems quite feasible. So either scum gets Kagami hammered or they learn her role. Both good things in a Garruk-scum/Kagami-town scenario. Therefore the only benefit to Garruk-scum is if Kagami is a partner.

On the other hand, if Garruk-town has a strong townread on Kagami, that would be a good reason to time the fakeclaim for that point. Shake up a crappy wagon. But they were voting Kagami before moving to us, so I don't think that's a good explanation.

Bottom line, I think they decided to do something, and given how much they were winging it such that they flubbed their own plan I think it's more likely they didn't think about the lay of the land as a whole in their timing.

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

There's a difference between how you hopped on with a minimum of fuss and Nazarene jumping on while crowing about how they knew we were oh-so-scummy. You have the easy 'follow the cop' excuse without commitment, Nazarene commits to believing the result for their own reasons. Harder to back out of one than the other.

I agree that it (mostly) didn't make sense for Nati-scum. Doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for Nati-town. And yeah, they carried it on really close to the point of no return, but they really only got one shot at this. May as well maximize it.

Reacting to a claimed daycop guilty...I'd be looking for a trajectory that indicated the claimed daycop would use their investigation as claimed. I might voice my support of the lynch while seeing where people moved in the aftermath of the claim, since I know I'm town after all; seeing who jumped would be more informative on account of the 'gimmie' nature of the wagon. I might demand a full claim from the daycop given the low chances of a multiple shot daycop in a Micro. I might try to find and interrogate other people who had reads on the investigated slot. There's a lot to be done beyond 'hop on wagon' and I saw none of that from you.

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

I modded a game Gaiden was in. IIRC he was Goo, which, um, doesn't give me much of a sense of how he'd play in a more normal game. I don't expect all of that from both of you, but let's face it: this is a Micro game, most likely two scum. You think you have one scum handed to you gift-wrapped. You aren't going to do anything to knock out the last scum? Instead you try to hurry up the wagon. Let's say Nati hadn't slipped up/retracted it. Do you really think there was a chance we wouldn't have been lynched? If not, why the giant hurry to pressure Kagami into hammering?

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

Medea.

I think you're town.

But I still need you lynched.

Because role. I have a passive ability that only activates upon your death. I'm not claiming what my role is though. Taking it to the goddamn grave there.

I had to choose a player to tether to pre-game, I chose you.

I still think you're town, albeit it town who decided to base their usefulness on the death of a strong player (yes, I'm talking about Cabd before people start calling me massively egotistical). I do kind of enjoy that you've made us effectively BP though.

GIF, I see what you mean about things ending abruptly with the fake daycop. Thing was, I would have liked to let it play out, but Garruk slipped, which meant that if someone did LOLhammer, our town flip would have made Garruk all but guaranteed to be the next lynch, and I think that would also have been a mislynch.

Tier-Nazarene, why is Alduskkel less useful than TIP and orcinus?

Garruk, why is Kagami such a strong scum read here? And if you're so sure, why not lynch her today before trying to activate your claimed ability? PRs are all well and good, but I'd rather be considering your situation from a 6:1 perspective than 7:2, or worse have been policy/gambit lynched and go into tomorrow watching the town at 5:2 whether or not you have some shiny new role.

So Cabd should be getting in here, but his take on the Gaiden thing is that Gaiden playing in an anti-town fashion doesn't make him town; it just masks his scum game. I'm not meta diving to back that up, but unless you are seriously proposing that Gaiden would be playing differently as scum, I have no problem judging your hydra on what you actually do here. And what you've done is scummy.

Orcinus, when you posted this:

VOTE: medea

actually getting to stuff later tonight

How much of the game were you current with, in terms of actually having opinions and not just seeing, 'daycop!' :VOTE:?

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

How much of the game were you current with, in terms of actually having opinions and not just seeing, 'daycop!' :VOTE:?

i had been on vla for 3 days

So that's 'nothing' then? Why did you feel it was a good idea to toss out a vote on a claim that was so ridiculous without getting context? What do you think of the gambit after hearing the complete explanation?

Tier-Nazarene, why is Alduskkel less useful than TIP and orcinus?

Can't believe I said he was. All three are pretty useless, mkay.

-Tier

Sorry, phrased that poorly. You said that Alduskkel was posting useless things, implying that that was your motive for voting him. I'm asking what pushes him ahead of TIP's anti-town uselessness where he ignores events entirely or orcinus whose back and forth with PN was as engaged as he's gotten. (And reading his side of it in ISO, he's vague, asking questions but not giving opinions. The only things he's come out swinging about are the hated mechanic and our scum read on him.)

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

How much of the game were you current with, in terms of actually having opinions and not just seeing, 'daycop!' :VOTE:?

i had been on vla for 3 days

Hi I am here and penguin tells me you are scum. My little reaction test on you is lost to the abyss of fuckyouhohumgetarealserver so can you help me re-create it by pretending I just voted for you and called you confirmed scum from meta?

[Medea the Alien]

At this point I fucking pray that TIP is scum (which he sounds like yay), or if he's town that PN is scum (bonus if both scum) because neither of those fuckers should be anywhere near potetial lylo.

[Medea the Alien]

So Cabd should be getting in here, but his take on the Gaiden thing is that Gaiden playing in an anti-town fashion doesn't make him town; it just masks his scum game. I'm not meta diving to back that up, but unless you are seriously proposing that Gaiden would be playing differently as scum, I have no problem judging your hydra on what you actually do here. And what you've done is scummy.

Gaiden's a lazy fucker regardless of alignment so yeah, they don't get to sell that as a towntell. Insert another quarter, try again.

[Medea the Alien]

It's allll tigers, all the way down. But eh, not worried about you misreading me, tomorrow will make it easy for you. I'm gonna head to staples.

[Medea the Alien]

I will always support gambits by other players in the game if it doesn't directly harm town

I thought that it was underwhelming after hearing the explanation but I don't really care because I'm scum reading you guys

I'll admit that you jumping on gambits doesn't shock me, but the lack of engagement bothers me still. It's not as bad as TIP burying his head in the sand, but as I said at the end of 269 I don't see you putting out much in the way of opinions that you're willing to stand behind. You're scum reading us and spent a lot of time trying to wheedle out info on the claimed Hated mechanic. When you did get into a discussion, your involvement was basically asking questions, and your contributions were pretty vague.

Cabd seems sure he can sort you one way or the other given time though. I don't have anything useful that's more recent than Micro 99, so I'll punt this one to him.

I want an answer to ald's question: how can anyone really be town reading TIP at the moment?

Do you think it's a valid question? Given where your vote is. Because I still want an answer to my inquiry in 269 before the deadline runs out...

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

orcinus, it's the 'hop on' part that bothers me in terms of engagement, not the 'industriousness of doing so during V/LA' part. You say you support fellow players' gambits--presumably that's because you think useful results are gleaned. But I don't get where you've followed up to move the game forward based on what happened.

And that's in addition to your general approach as outlined in that quote. Your exchange with PN left me feeling all kinds of uneasy about your motives, and I don't think rereading it that I learned anything new about your take on things.

Talk to me about Alduskkel. Nazarene is simultaneously voting him and reinforcing his question, and you aren't making a case there either. His activity's been lousy, but he tried to engage with the game.

P-edit: Alduskkel, why? We have half a day to deadline and no wagons > 2 votes. orcinus isn't a town read, but at least he's responding at all, unlike TIP. Frankly I'd rather you joined us on TIP, although given that a third of the player list hasn't posted in over two days, I'm not optimistic about us avoiding a no-lynch at all.

[Medea the Alien]

I'm sorry, had no idea we were this close to deadline.

How is ald engaging with the game?

-Tier

I thought #262 was at least trying to get a foothold in things. And Alduskkel felt like lost town to me, although I'm not sure if he just looks good in comparison to TIP. I assume your heads are still disagreeing about Alduskkel, give this:

I want an answer to ald's question: how can anyone really be town reading TIP at the moment?

Tier, why do you think TIP is town, assuming the above was Aegor?

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

I'm here.

Probably willing to vote ald if ti comes to deadline and tippy doesnt gain traction.

Orc read actually slightly improved. Tip still useless and scumcoastining just like he did in vengeball.

[Medea the Alien]

Also tippy is at 3 votes, not 2, nazerene.

[Medea the Alien]

input from medea

Hi.

I don't really see there being a oneshot vig in this game when ffery has past experience with vigs in micros and it being rediculously scum sided. (Morph the cat scumgame, Nachomamma8's "Achievement Unlocked Mafia") Admittedly, that was a scum extra kill, but my point stands that in our conversations in-hydra she'd expressed a distaste for vigs in anything smaller than a 13p mini (and even then she has a recent negative experience thanks to orc's scumteam in 1551).

The angle Kagami is taking in her defense is interesting, though. Not exactly how I'd play it off had I gotten caught making a nightkill.

[Medea the Alien]

if it's likely to get false positives.

I wouldn't gave jumped on it quickly if the result had a decent chance of being false positive.

Like this post is enough and actually correct (*glares at natirasha*)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kagami

[Medea the Alien]

...so much for giving Cabd space to sort orcinus.

Last I heard from Cabd, he was gung-ho on lynching Kagami in light of a claimed investigative result. I'm actually inclined to lynch Kagami today as well, seeing as some things just don't add up to the pro-town town-Kagami mindset I remember from other games of hers.

Saying that she was planning on conf-towning herself with this supposed vig shot and so kept a low profile Day One. Which is all well and good, but deliberately playing with the goal of just making it through the day is scummy, and as such tends to attract town power roles. And not likely the protective ones either. More like investigative ones...oh, wait.

Not scummy per se, but in her set-up spec she talks about the drive and the light, assigning passive powers to the drive for flipped town and the passive power to the light for her claimed role. If flavor was as deliberate as she's suggesting, that seems odd. Like actual powers don't fit right or something.

Gif is your investigative role 1-shot?

VOTE: nazarene

Yo I'm just trying to gauge the likelyhood of gif getting a false positive.

Gif, you don't actually have to tell me your role but you may tell me if it's likely to get false positives.

The role fish here pings a lot. But given likely set-up features, I'm not sure if it was coming from clueless scum or town baiting a trap.

Third pick for scum is medea, in the event that I had no scum on my wagon.

Medea should pretty much know I'm town, as scum-kagami would have no chance at all of not hammering her during the daycopping thing. Scum-kagami was obviously in a tight spot, and would have been very happy to draw some suspicion that she could potentially get out of, while still being able to shift the blame to Garruk. I also find it on that Cabd doesn't seem too concerned about orc's very obvious errors and behavior that is highly reminiscent of the Tales game he just modded.

The suggestion here that scum-Kagami would have hammered a blatant reaction test to stave off the lynch for one more day is lousy. Yes, people would have been annoyed at Garruk, but hammering there would have been pretty obvious scum. And as far as getting out of trouble with it, it seems that the whole reaction test/ploy did that pretty handily for you anyways. After our wagon took off, yours never got above two, and spent most of the time at one vote: TIP. The only time it came back at all was Perpetual Nonsense voting you...

This diversion:

Q: Why are we not massclaiming? Seems good here.

as Garruk's entrance seriously hurts my town read on them. No comment on investigative results after being so hot to trot on their own 'investigative result' before. I do tend to think that if aspects of the set-up are as they seem from flips and some things have happened as stated, mass claim might not be as damaging as normal. At least the non-passive abilities.

I think scum is in {orc, Garruk, Naz, GIF}.

More later when I'm not dead tired.

So we, you, and Kagami (who killed someone) are town? More on that would be super, because that's a heck of a list.

I think flavor-claiming can't hurt, given the uPick aspect. And we're rolling along in that direction anyways with the number of players who've soft-claimed flavor. It is true that it reduces flexibility for any scum fakeclaims.

So in short, I think Kagami's likely scum. Alduskkel looks bad for coming in with little to say about the Kagami situation, as does Garruk. I'd be shocked if there isn't scum somewhere in that group, if not both scum. Nazarene, I tend to think is well-intentioned town, and the apparent lack of long-term impediment with the Hated modifier claim is the only thing that makes me leery of just tossing them into the town pile. GiF is clearly in my town pile, and orcinus, really not sure. I'd feel better if Cabd had finished his plan, whatever it was. And if those posts were to come back.

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

as Garruk's entrance seriously hurts my town read on them. No comment on investigative results after being so hot to trot on their own 'investigative result' before. I do tend to think that if aspects of the set-up are as they seem from flips and some things have happened as stated, mass claim might not be as damaging as normal. At least the non-passive abilities.

Why would I comment on shit? I've said Kagami is scum since d1.

I have a distinct reason I want to massclaim, btw. It should be blindingly obvious, too.

I have my suspicions, but nothing that's helpful speculated on. And if you think it's so cut-and-dried, where's your vote?

in 327, I posit that our abilities come from some interpretation of the "light" and "drive" thingies, but that scum might have powers from the "drive" and "shadow" meanings. No one has expressed any objection to this possibility, so I figure I might actually be right on that one.

I'd like the discrepancy between passive and active ability inspirations in your examples addressed.

prod garruk, please

cool, if my setup spec theory is correct, then we should def flavor claim and look into "shadow" readings.

What does this mean?

VOTE: medea
Die scumfuck

-Tier

So you're not reading Kagami's posts but you have *reasons* to vote us. I think you're town, so pay more attention, please.

cool, if my setup spec theory is correct, then we should def flavor claim and look into "shadow" readings.


Anyway, I'd like to re-emphasize: What scum would kill PN over GiF or Naz, who were almost universally townread and would actually be useful to town if left alive?

The fact that it was PN who died should pretty strongly indicate that it was a vig kill. PN would kind of be a bad scum kill even if he were an IC / very obv-town.

If you think scum-kagami would have killed a person who was suspecting me, there would still be much better choices (Naz being an obvious one).

With lots of power roles in play, scum probably wouldn't go for targets likely to be protected, for starters. Other options, not accounting for your partner's identity: we were under a cloud thanks to Garruk and our death would supposedly empower them, Garruk claimed to have no power until we died, Alduskkel barely posted, and orcinus was tunneling the claimed Hated and us. Not really any significantly better kill choices out there. Why not kill someone suspecting you? You were unlikely to take heat for it, given that it's a single data point, and it would have made today easier. And that doesn't account for any motivation your partner might have had.

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

are you avoiding me

I don't think you're doing anything new, interesting, or useful, so yeah, I'm not overly inclined to shower you with attention. Take it up with Cabd if you're feeling neglected.

I vote when I damn well please, PA.

And so my question is why it doesn't please you to vote for Kagami at this juncture?

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

If TIP's a tree stump as indicated by his statement and the vote count, we're at LyLo, not MyLo.

I find it incredibly hard to take orcinus's calling for our head seriously here after Garruk's clamoring turned out to be just so much bullshit.

I think TIP should determine the mass claim order.

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

I think TIP should determine the mass claim order.

Ok, medea is next. Then gif, then orc, then us?
Since we're apparently conftown now.

Heh, no. A) Nazarene =/= TIP, B) you're hardly conftown on one unknown player's say-so, C) GIF is partially claimed and so is less of a mass claim concern than a complete unknown like orcinus. But nice try.

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

I'd mock the lack of posting, but this is just pathetic. Naz, when you're around let me know. We'll just simultaneously claim if you're gonna have a stick up your ass about it.

[Medea the Alien]

Nope, I get to give you sass, orc. Shut up and follow the confirmed town.

But hey, let's say I'm scum. Do you REALLY think scumcabd doesn't have a fakeclaim sitting on ye old shelf of scumcabdclaims ready to go right this second?

So why does he not just claim from the getgo?

Get a clue dude.

[Medea the Alien]

OH man look at all those Nazarene posts since both heads are online and posting plenty elsewhere.

So glad they decided to show and get on with it.

[Medea the Alien]

I havent been doing much of ANYTHING in any game lately, yo. Like... we don't have the same level of orcihate going so i've been letting her play with you while i go be lazy and apathetic and a bit mehface, which kind of sums up my mafia life in general right now?

I've already chosen to go simultaneously with aegorhydra (WHO IS STILL POSTING PLENTY EVERYWHERE ELSE) instead of after him, so if I was looking for wiggle room then I willingly pissed some away.

[Medea the Alien]

Yeah well, sorry notsorry. Life's not exactly been peachy and rosy lately, but whatever, it's not important to the game. You can bug me later if you care to know about it.

P-edit; I'm here

[Medea the Alien]

[countdown]0.00[/countdown]

Concurrent claims, since you care so much to know I'll be going next after you.

[Medea the Alien]

Chariot, Strong-Willed (aka unblockable) 1-shot jailkeeper, used on giffy last night

[Medea the Alien]

Right so you're a 2shot role in a world of oneshots, okay then.

And here I was thinking it was possible you were town along with naz and it was ald-gif or something.

VOTE: orc

[Medea the Alien]

Better hope you can sell one of the two other towns on it, bud.

[Medea the Alien]

Because I'm not self voting, and your scumbuddy only has one vote.

[Medea the Alien]

Also fuck you, now I owe penguin ten bucks.

[Medea the Alien]

Riiight.

IF you'll humor me though, I do have a question. Is that the fakeclaim she gave you, or did you not use it and went with your own? Because if ffery gave scum a doc fakeclaim with jailkeep in the game, i'm yelling at her for it given this exact same scenario played out, albeit reversed, in gif's mini theme.

[Medea the Alien]

But otoh, this gives me a new orc scumtell. Out of the nulltells book it goes.

[Medea the Alien]

As an aside, tippy, can you see/post in the dead thread still?

[Medea the Alien]

As an aside, tippy, can you see/post in the dead thread still?

[Medea the Alien]

...Wait, fuck.

UNVOTE:

ORC HAUL YOUR ASS IN HERE AND UNVOTE ME, I JUST REALIZED SHIT

[Medea the Alien]

If orc is scum, he either nokilled to set this up somehow knowing kagami was a vig or wanting a MYLO scenario, or his scumteam killed bert night one. Neither of those make any sense.

Whereas two protective roles in a twokill environment seems like chaos but I could see ffery subverting shit after our bad taste of it in gif's mini.

It's Aldus-giffy, isn't it?

[Medea the Alien]

The thing that distresses me is look at the flipped roles so far, as well as my own:

TheIrishPope, The Lovers, Town Neighbor and One-Shot Inventor, Lynched Day 1
Perpetual Nonsense, The Sun, Town Ascetic One-Shot Motivator, Killed Night 1
Kagami, The Tower, Town Enabled One-Shot Vigilante, Lynched Day 2
Garruk Relentless, The Universe, Town Enabler and One-Shot Reviver, Killed Night 2
Medea the Alien, The Chariot, Town Strong-Willed One-Shot Jailkeeper

They're all oneshots with modifiers.

[Medea the Alien]

Why did you jk gif last night?

Because despite him getting kagami lynched, his follower claim and the way he outed felt town as fuck + sheeping kagami's read on him once she flipped town.

[Medea the Alien]

Uh, why not you?

...Because I'm town?

Did you really just ask me that?

[Medea the Alien]

Of course it doesn't matter, if orc doesn't get in here and unvote me, we've lose once gif and Aldus are around. And I'm pretty sure giffy's online atm stalking this out.

[Medea the Alien]

Well

I guess we really need gif to claim now.
Do you think scum follower makes sense?

I'm expecting one scum informative, one scum blocking.

Scum Follower is possible, but damn, getting a "vig" result (or killing result but lol no SK in a 9p setup) and pushing it as a guilty anyway. Gif fucking snowed me good. It's just as likely a scum rolecop or something stronger though.

[Medea the Alien]

ORCI YOU PIECE OF SHIT STOP PLAYING MISHMASH AND GET IN HERE AND UNVOTE ME

[Medea the Alien]

ITS 3 AND CHANGE PM THERE YOU LAZY FUCK, YOU'RE ONLINE, GET IN HERE

[Medea the Alien]

I SWEAR TO ARCEUS IF WE LOSE BECAUSE YOU GOT A MISTAKEN MURDER BONER FOR ME I AM GOING TO BE PISSED

[Medea the Alien]

The thing that distresses me is look at the flipped roles so far, as well as my own:

TheIrishPope, The Lovers, Town Neighbor and One-Shot Inventor, Lynched Day 1
Perpetual Nonsense, The Sun, Town Ascetic One-Shot Motivator, Killed Night 1
Kagami, The Tower, Town Enabled One-Shot Vigilante, Lynched Day 2
Garruk Relentless, The Universe, Town Enabler and One-Shot Reviver, Killed Night 2
Medea the Alien, The Chariot, Town Strong-Willed One-Shot Jailkeeper

They're all oneshots with modifiers.

His claim matches NONE of these. I totally forgot about the possibly missing kill. (It's still possible that mafia killed bert alongside kagami)

[Medea the Alien]

Asleep at 3pm? I fucking doubt it.

[Medea the Alien]

I bet he's in class right now, whereas.... giffy's in eastern US time (3:30AM I think) and Aldus is fuckifiknow time zone.

[Medea the Alien]

ORC FUCKING UNVOTE BEFORE GIF SHOWS UP

[Medea the Alien]

Aldus, for you to be town and orc to be scum, one of the following two things must be true:

A- scum-orc nokilled to set this up (and then got lucky curtosy of kagami)
B- scum-orc killed bert night one, hitting alongside kagami's kill

Do you think that's possible?

[Medea the Alien]

So if he's no-killing, why no-kill night one and not night two?

And if he's scum, who is the partner?

[Medea the Alien]

Okay medea why are you not voting ald

Because I don't want votes down before massclaim is over (now that i'm out of the moment) PLUS I want to hear from the dead thread if tip is able to do so.

[Medea the Alien]

Ald the issue with that is that if you can confirm your ability to control his inventions, that effectively makes you masons in a 9 player micro. That plus provable vig means day one massclaim is autowin, when you factor in the provable town reviver.

[Medea the Alien]

Vote: TheIrishPope

hi

VOTE: ald

Thank you for confirming my vote on you you bandwagoning scum whose idea of playing is "harp on the hated thing for a bajillion years."

Where are all the TIP town reads coming from? I mean, I get it if you don't think he's scum (I have him at null), but town? Really?

Oh fine.

Vote: TIP

My issue now is, if you could control tip's abilities, why did you treat him as nullish-possible scum on day one? Did you think he could be a scum inventor that is led around by you?

[Medea the Alien]

In fact why am I not?

Tier, what exactly made you post this?

[Medea the Alien]

OK, I really don't get Alduskkel's role at all. TIP, maybe you can shed some light on this. You were a one-shot inventor. According to Alduskkel, you could generate one of {commute, watch, extra vote} but he decided where it went?

That actually doesn't sound like so bad a scum role to me. Scum inherently gets the ear of a townie, and they're also controlling the power thereof. Which if nothing else neutralizes a chunk of town while letting scum manipulate the power distribution.

Nexus...also seems like a decent scum role. And D1 Hated is hardly a disadvantage. Only thing is the question of whether orcinus is town who protected Nazarene and how that fits in with a single kill N1.

I kind of have a suspicion about what's up with orcinus's two-shot claim but I want to see if anyone else gets there. Orcinus, if I'm right, why aren't you claiming your modifier? And if you're town, unvote, like, now. It's all fun and games until we get hammered, and I don't care to lose this game because people think it would be fun to lynch Cabd. Yes, I'm looking at you, Garruk. And no, I don't care if we would have been a tree stump, it was still dumb.

TIP, what's your take on Alduskkel? Did you get to talk with him pre-game?

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

That's why I fucking unvoted you orc. Now fix your tags and unvote me proprly, because giffy's on VLA yeah but I will DIE if you're town. And then we lose.

[Medea the Alien]

are we doing goodmorning capslock rage?

BECAUSE IVE BEEN DETACHED FROM THE FUCKING GAME OKAY

[Medea the Alien]

AND WE'VE GOT THE CONFIRMED TOWN TREESTUMP CALLING HIS NEIGHBOR SCUM AND SAID NEIGHBOR'S RESPONSE IS NOTHING

BUT NO LETS TALK ABOUT HOW ORC HAS A MURDER BONER FOR CABD EVEN THOUGH IT DOESNT MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE

[Medea the Alien]

Kagami, you mean the one calling me town?

As for the kagami lynch, are you fucking kidding me?

Claimed killer guilty not in lylo/mylo is fucking autolynch.

[Medea the Alien]

there's a strongly hinted corroboration to said claimed killer

Where was this? I sure didn't see anything like that.

[Medea the Alien]

also PA has been saying useless things like "hmmmmm naz could be a scum role" and that's not town PA

Fucking lol. It's actually "Town where Cabd makes her not self-filter her posting" Penguin.

[Medea the Alien]

Yes because I totally saw that.

[Medea the Alien]

Like hindsight if 20-20 sure. But I didn't see it back then. I'm terrible at picking up PR tells and softs.

[Medea the Alien]

Prepare your prod dodges now, then; if we're waiting for giffy.

He had some sort of minor family emergency and won't be back from Friday, since he even had me take over backing up his games.

[Medea the Alien]

So not that I'm not enjoying getting to rub my being right in Cabd's face, but it only works fully if we get to lynch the scum here.

GIF, Alduskkel, you need to get in here and see just how absurd orcinus is being. I suspect that what happened here was that scum-orcinus went for a wacky NK in PN and let Kagami take the fall for it. In the meantime, he 'clears' his partner Nazarene and claims a surprise!2-shot role with no modifier. I can only assume that his actual modifier is particularly incriminating, like one-shot BP.

Look at his overall play here. Tunnels his buddy over the Hated thing that he knows will stop being an issue after the first day, runs himself into us repeatedly with no attempts to persuade anyone that he's right, since he knows he has nothing. Gets super-pissed at Kagami for shooting PN--because if he hadn't overlapped with her his team would have been in MyLo yesterday?

Then he supposedly forgot how he interacted with Nazarene for night actions when Nazarene was the only person here he did interact with? Not likely. That's scum not wanting to be more specific on a fake claim until he has to.

Retroactive case on GIF whose follower claim is extremely town? Leaving lynch options open on everyone except his buddy? This is orcinus gambling it all on a mislynch today, and I will be damned if I let him get away with it after Mini 1551.

VOTE: orcinus

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

Thanks for the game, fferyllt! GIF, it was a pleasure--your night action choices and day play were superb.

As far as all the expressed bitterness in the thread goes, might I kindly suggest you knock it off? Alduskkel was quite clear that he was town reading us all of Day Two. As scum, we only needed to deceive one person, and yes, we brought that person to LyLo.

Nazarene and orcinus chose not to make a persuasive case to Alduskkel. Telling him to read our joint ISO doesn't count. And, significantly, when Alduskkel posted this:

Explain why orcinus isn't scum, please.

the only one addressing his question was Cabd. You two failed to genuinely work with him or consider his perspective. Even if you were that convinced of the team, you could have tried to get Alduskkel to lynch GIF first, forcing us either to leave both of you alive or let Alduskkel live and risk him questioning why he was still around.

So your reads may have been good, but you failed in the execution because this is a team game. You can kick and scream about blacklisting all you'd like, but your rude and shortsighted behavior toward Alduskkel make me ten times more leery of ever playing with you again than him. Calling someone trash and retarded while taking zero responsibility for the outcome is lousy behavior.

--PA