Micro 324: Bridge Mafia (D3, 6/9 alive)

[Antihero]

VOTE: jklash12

the scumbird

[Antihero]

still here. the bird's still scum.

[Antihero]

alright, so lucky's scum too. cool...

[Antihero]

VOTE: lucky

[Antihero]

you know... with mala being a huge benefit if town, or a huge threat if scum... why not just lynch her and clear that up early? Statistically... isn't it the smart move?

VOTE: Lucky
For the obvious reasnon,he wants mala out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMGUS!!1!!!1!eleven!!

VOTE: Arcangel9

(that the reaction you wanted!)

trying too hard to endear yourself all the while awkwardly avoiding commenting on anything
you're scum and you don't know how to start a game as scum. it's OK, lucky. i'm the same way

[Antihero]

@Anti-hero:

Want to explain further other than scumbird is scum? You won't sell me on that lynch based on you just saying that.

i won't sell you on ... what?
what are you talking about?

[Antihero]

nah, you said something about selling you on a

lynch

, which is a bizarre angle to take.

re: cardinal; committed the "hi!" first post scumtell, gut scum ping from post 29

[Antihero]

pet scumtell. from personal experience and gut, i feel like i see "hi!" or "hai!" or some other permutation of "hello" followed by an exclamation point from scum in the first post.
i don't know if you're aware of where my vote is, though...

._.

[Antihero]

i've explained this, please read

[Antihero]

underlying (annoying and fallacious) assumption: scum will be scumhunting and town will want to fuck around

lucky can't have been here a year and still seriously believe that

[Antihero]

Don't get snippy with insanity because you're being unclear. You're the one trying to play the Staeg card here. No one is a mind reader.

well, insanity followed up with this:

Or is it just that Lucky seems scummier than your gut pings for jklash?

so i couldn't have been that unclear. as to degrees of scum reading, i'm not getting sucked into the hair-splitting game there, so i guess you can go ahead and keep being the white knight, rc.

Did he assume every player would play like this or just him?

well, he said that it's what he "based his reads off of" or something to that effect, so i'm assuming the former.

[Antihero]

Mala's questioning of Antihero is probably the most awkward I've ever seen Mala. Not quite sure what to make of it. But I kinda feel like as scum she wouldn't question a player like Antihero. Mixed feelings there. Slight town lean I think.

Your last sentence actually took me aback. I thought you were fixing to say that you were leaning scum on Mala. I like both of these points though. I agree with you on both accounts.

wait a second... i thought you just finished telling me that mala's questioning was all good in the neighborhood and

i'm

the one who's being unclear and huffing the dipshit glue.

as for egg's sentence, i personally can't really follow it, but i don't know what "a player like antihero" means.

[Antihero]

are you asking if i'm usually foul mouthed and obnoxious?
or what?

[Antihero]

pleasure reading if you have a lot of time on your hands:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

[Antihero]

Antihero is not outspoken and influential. He is, in fact, very mean and always distrusts me even though I am an angel that would never do anything to harm him. <3

oh, well, i say good sir

blahblehblahblehblahbleh

[Antihero]

well, poo to you

cool story: jklash continues to be newbscum

[Antihero]

I'm concerned that neither Mala nor Wolfy have votes down. Are they biding their time for another wagon to spring up?

ok. so what would you call jklash still having his RVS vote on Egg?

[Antihero]

/smack

1. read redcoyote's post
2. read my reply
3. think about context

[Antihero]

rc is ballsy

i agree that mala has a good chance of being scum, though.

[Antihero]

/glacial

my slots of interest aren't posting.

[Antihero]

mala, i feel so... neglected
why don't you love me?

also

jklash jklash jklash

[Antihero]

wolfy lynch is suboptimal

Reason why i haven't voted is because my scum reads are mostly gut area more than developed into something solid. I have some townreads and actually want to work with them.

oh that's good to hear

VOTE: jklash

[Antihero]

let's dance, mala

[Antihero]

let's dance, mala

Maybe tomorrow night?

that's what they all say.


...then they don't show up.

i'm going to go cry myself to sleep now...

[Antihero]

on a more serious not, mr. beetlejuice blend-in-with-the-furniture is a much better lynch than anyone else at this point

vote jklash. it'll be fun.

[Antihero]

*on a more serious note

me is educated

[Antihero]

It'd have been nice if you could've contributed. Are we (Wolfy and I) both town?

nope, i don't get to hold the shit bag of shame and i'm contributing

and yes, you and wolfy are both townreads

Why did jklash vote Lucky instead of hammering/threatening to hammer Wolfy?

the implication being that that's the only course of action scumbird could've taken?
come on, rc.

[Antihero]

deadline's closing in, he's still got the "lolz, deadline vote, gotta' do it" out or he just figures someone else will do it and he doesn't want to touch wolfy's lynch for a good reason.

not everyone is a fearless scumbag like you are, rc.

also, there's no need for the shifty emoticon about mala. a mala lynch would be excellent.

[Antihero]

i've got townreads i want to work with. vote: egg

hominahominahomina

[Antihero]

ok

[Antihero]

Mala, I'm having trouble getting interested in this game for some reason.

replace out then

[Antihero]

Hey, Sorry for flaking.
It was intentional. I got busy with my projects didn't had a chance to be here

life is a cruel bitch. i understand.

[Antihero]

Haha, well, i played with mala and wolfy before.

Wolfy is also like this the other game i played with him. Generally defensive. However, in that game, some of his posts gave me a reason to strong townread him. This game, i don't see it.

@mala:
I see you getting prods and being generally inactive. So are you scum now?
I rmb you saying:" I am town if i am active, i am scum if i am inactive. That's your meta that you claimed was true?". Ain't that right?

Besides, that i read the whole game and generally don't smell anything. I ought to reread the game. I need to interact with people man.

@Redcoyote:

Do you think you can get a jklash lynch today. Imagine we get him to claim at the nick hour and he claim PR. Who are we going to turn the wagon on then? And maybe, we would not have enough time to turn the wagon and NL becomes a result?

DEATH TO META

anything good?

[Antihero]

show of hands

who would vote a mala wagon?

[Antihero]

Care to convince me on your jklash scum thingy? Because i don't see it.

nope, not playing that game

give me a starting point with what you do "see" and we can work from there

[Antihero]

ok, how did you determine that?

[Antihero]

Well, Anti, are you for mala lynch then?

Well, mala seems just mala this game form my grand total of 1 game experience with her(her alignment is still not revealed that game). Lurk through the day, scumread people for reason i cant understand. Vote someone out of the blue. So yea...

yes, i'm for a mala lynch for reasons that don't have anything to do with meta

also, yeah mala's right, no talking about ongoing games

[Antihero]

@Antihero:
Because it don't look like scum giving that logic? I can see roughly, somehow, the thought process of newb town.
Then let me ask you instead, how does that ring scum to you?

because it's a really awkward and forced angle, considering that insanity never actually sheeped anyone or held a continuous conversation with me about jklash.

also, considering how it contrasts with the rest of his iso it almost feels.... coached. like scum have day talk and he was fed the case.

[Antihero]

re: mala

Reads are as follows:

1. RedCoyote - town - way the posts sound comes like they are from a town PoV, also like some of his reactions and pressuring of certain players.
3. insanity018 - null area
4. ArcAngel9 - Leaning Town: Her reaction test on Lucky was scum hunting also her reaction in #73 is very likely town-AA than scum-AA.
5. Wolfy - Leaning Scum: The reply to Red was kinda awkward imo. However I like 131, so conflicted :[
6. Lucky2u - Null
7. Antihero Leaning-town: Hunting and pressuring: Lucky/JK. Very weak read.
8. Egg Maybe scum? Very little vote in his posts. Seems less like hunting and more like coasting. (more so in null area~)
9. jklash12 - probably scum: Sticky RVS vote and no revote. Very little hunting, coasting. A good chance of being scum.


Reason why i haven't voted is because my scum reads are mostly gut area more than developed into something solid. I have some townreads and actually want to work with them.

biggest issue is that actions don't match up with the rhetoric

1) wolfy read implies she thinks he's kind of townish, but i think she leaves the read intentionally mushy to join the wagon if she needs to.
2) lucky is a pretty polarizing player. leaving him null and having nothing to say is kind of a red flag to me (especially when she had something to say about everyone else except insanity)
3) she never actually works with her townreads. coyote and i are voting jklash, but she still foregoes a wolfy or jklash vote for an egg vote. the sentence about "working with townreads" is just rhetoric to appear town.

[Antihero]

re: mala

1) i wipe my ass on meta
2) at some point, "top scum read" has to go out the window and there has to be a lynch consensus. with a couple days remaining, that time is now. town moves in a herd. you're sitting still.
3) lucky is an extremely anti-town player and has tons of red flags. off the top of my head: "this is how i would play as scum: blahblahblah", "haha, someone fell into my slayer's gambit trap", "are you going to hammer yourself?"

[Antihero]

So he was fed a case that's really awkard and forced with bad logic?
You are not making sense.

prima facie, the case looks pretty good. it doesn't stand up to inspection, though.

what are you confused about?

[Antihero]

meta tends to give a lot of false positives. it creates this artificial set of "rules" that say "this X player plays this way all the time as Y alignment". in reality, there are a lot more complex factors that dictates a player's play in any certain game (besides what alignment the player drew).

i quit using meta once i realized i got too many reads wrong based on it. meta is more of a liability than anything and is best ignored. i guess "the game" where that really sank in with me is dark age of the law.

[Antihero]

Cuz he's at L-1?

so.... state intent to hammer and ask for a claim....? come on mala, i know you've played a mafia game before.

coyote, i am so ready to turn this wagon around for a mala one. the chasm between what mala's doing and what she's saying is the size of the marianas trench

[Antihero]

you know what? screw it.



i'm gonna make my own wagon. with blackjack, hookers, and a mala scumflip

[Antihero]

VOTE: malakittens

[Antihero]

you hammer without asking for claims, mala?

now

that's

something worth using meta over.

[Antihero]

Deadline in 1 day, 11 hours, 32 minutes

so, you're just playing chicken with penny or.......

what?

when were you planning on being ready?

[Antihero]

no

shitbag of shame rejected and thrown right back at you, egg. it's not my fault this game is full of mealy-mouthers who "can't see" anything.

they're called eyeballs. and if you can "see" something on wolfy, articulate it, because i certainly haven't "seen" a good case on him.

[Antihero]

Also, Antihero, you don't have much room to talk about Mala not being ready to hammer when you are leaving the L-1 wagon you wanted so badly to start a brand new one.

not to mention the fact that mala not asking for a claim before supposedly intending to hammer is what my main complaint is. i don't think she ever intended to hammer jklash.

for that misrep, welcome to my scum pile though, egg.

[Antihero]

I was looking at this post being made right after you left the L-1 wagon that YOU started and YOU wanted and YOU were begging us all to join to start a brand new wagon with deadline approaching:

Deadline in 1 day, 11 hours, 32 minutes

so, you're just playing chicken with penny or.......

what?

when were you planning on being ready?

/nocontext; i don't think mala ever really planned on hammering. that's the point.

your shaming is still ineffective and scummy.

[Antihero]

horrible vote and claim stalling

hammer time

VOTE: jklash

[Antihero]

with rc's claim, i am now a lot more suspicious of mala's softclaiming

[Antihero]

VOTE: mala

awesome attempt at trying to create the illusion of hypocrisy, though. i never dogged you on hammering. i called bullshit on you saying that you ever did plan on voting jklash in the first place. by the way, enomis already asked for a claim. jklash didn't give one or acknowledge the fact that he was asked for one even though he was at L-1. that's claim stalling and it should be met with swift death.

also, the special requests to not wagon you repeatedly is (at the

very

least) softclaim-ish. if you're now saying that it was all smoke and mirrors to begin with (which is what i suspected at the time anyway), that's even more of a reason to wagon you.

[Antihero]

yet I find it hard to believe you are both scum.

i don't

[Antihero]

I'm at L-1 with zero counterwagon. so I'm sure this is a scum driven wagon.

non-sequitur smear tactic

the wolfy vote is very strategic and calculating. several people have already called me town and you can't appear weak by OMGUSing, so you know you can't vote for me. so you hope people will fall back on a default wolfy wagon.

also, you're making a great effort to hang on to your allies:

Eno is still town. His pred was town and I know her meta like the back of my hand~

[Antihero]

Town fake crumbing to draw a NK is really that hard to believe? Why haven't you even asked her to provide meta to show that she's done this before considering she says she has?

because meta's trash and the whole goddamn thing is a stupid circle jerk of wifom

let's just say (for the sake of argument) that she does softclaim all the time as town. she's aware of this meta (she's already shown us this), so of course she would try to mimic her town meta as scum.

Should I be concerned with the merits of her repeated statements that your [enomis] slot is town?

no, he's just the swing vote she needs to stay alive so she needs to placate him. her buddy's not going to vote her and she's just counting on loudmouth red coyote to be content to go back to his wolfy vote.

[Antihero]

Scum-AntiHero is answering questions for scum-Wolfy because he knows that his new inexperienced partner is more likely to crack under pressure!

you know, tough guy rhetoric alone probably won't work on this playerlist. you need a semblance of logic. which you don't have.
you're grasping at straws and it's really transparent.

[Antihero]

lucky!

any reads outside of mala and wolfy?

[Antihero]

all meta is, at its core, straight-up WIFOM

amen

moonbeams from kalimar

[Antihero]

if nothing else, RC should be a lot higher on that list for the claim.

^the only thing that's "fake" is that list

egg's scum

[Antihero]

just did an egg/lucky double iso and that scumteam actually makes a lot of sense

UNVOTE: for a sec

[Antihero]

redcoyote, i'm having some serious misgivings about a mala lynch now, espeically now that all i see when I look at egg's posts are "I'm setting someone else up to take the fall when Mala flips".

[Antihero]

oh yeah, shit there goes someone in your mislynch pool

[Antihero]

ironically, the word that comes to mind when i look at egg's iso is FAKE

let's start with the wall.

Lucky- He's mostly a town read because of the lack of a good case on him and people like Insanity voting him because it's easy. Also, looking back, his vote on Insanity early in the game is for reasons that I agreed with. I also like his take on jklash leaving his RVS vote for so long. He didn't try to run with it being scummy or anything. Just called it lazy and pointed out there's no possible "scum agenda" there. It's a voice of reason type of post that I feel like Luckyscum wouldn't use to discourage people from voting mislynch bait like that. His take on the Mala wagon today has the same voice of reason feel to it. Then the fact that he pointed out a clear difference between jk and wolfy, questioned wolfy on it, and THEN voted when he wasn't satisfied shows town scumhiunting rather than opportunistic scum like he seems to have been painted as. So I guess the biggest town tell is the way he isn't jumping on the BS that everyone else is spewing and is going against it in what appears to be a genuine attempt to lynch scum.

lucky tunneling on wolfy is really the most town thing you see in this game? is that a joke?

Mala - Like Lucky, I mostly just don't buy the case. I'm really not sure what to even look for with Mala these days, so I'm gonna have to leave it at that.

this is your second strongest townread and it's the basis of the core of his scumlist. yet, this is all he has to say about mala?

there's a huge difference between being a wagon hater and trying to suss out who exactly on the wagon is scum and who's misguided town (this is what a townie does) and being a wagon hater and just trying to throw dirt on

everyone

on the wagon (this is what scum do).

everyone

on the mala wagon is scummy? fake. he's just throwing blanket suspicion on the wagon and seeing what someone else will pick up on.

Arc/Enomis/Kalimar - I actually wasn't that impressed with Arc. She felt fake. Maybe it was that the buddying with Mala felt overplayed or the exclamation points threw the tone that way. Even Enmois' entrance seemed awkward asking about the theme rather than the game and then the "haha" to start his next post. But then he comes right out with solid reads and opinions and just keeps going from there.

solid opinions, eh? well, a few snapshots of his reads when he left: he had redcoyote and insanity as town (one of whom is your top scumread) and he had no impressions of you and lucky (your strongest townread).
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p5880153

Antihero - Antihero is low on this list because of the jk thing. I really think the way he tunneled so early and his actions near deadline add up to a possible scum neighbor. And his attitude towards Mala feels fake. However, I don't have much of a case outside of that.

"here, let me milk this fake antihero scumread for everything it's worth so i don't have to work with him or try to reason with him"

<insanity and wolfy cases>

oh, so the scum just happen to be the newbs. how convenient.
being "nervous" isn't a scumtell and just flippantly declaring things to be "fake" does not make a case

[Antihero]

i guess maybe the most striking thing is the interaction with his supposed townreads (or a lack thereof).

if he really did think mala's wagon was crap, he would know that there's townies on it. instead of trying to convince townies to unvote he just repeatedly mumbles about how he doesn't buy the case or something like that.

that's why he's himing and hawing around with me. he doesn't want to confront me directly, but at the same time he has to explain why he's fucking around instead of working with me.

he's not really against this mala lynch. he wants to

look

like he's against it without actually stopping it from going through.

VOTE: egg

[Antihero]

I've never been good at getting people to change their mind...

nah ah, i know you. that doesn't fly.

being distant isn't the same thing as not being good at convincing people of things

[Antihero]

I haven't read all the posts yet (doing that now), but Antihero, quick question re: Lucky/Egg scumteam:

Why did neither one of them hammer Mala under the pretense of either, "oh, RC/antihero/insanity/wolfy changed my mind... Mala is obvscum" or "eh, RC/antihero/insanity/wolfy aren't changing their minds, so I guess we'll get finish this day off"?

Let me do that reads post and if Mala is the only lynch that will happen, sure, I'll hammer. But I'd much rather hang Wolfy.

[Antihero]

[quote="In post 418, Egg"

]The only argument that could make sense is that Mala and I as a scum team actively made sure to stay off of this wagon in case of VCA.

But if that was the case, why did neither of us bring up any VCA until now?[/quote]

also, the VC lacks

context

mala insisted that she intended to vote jklash. the only thing that prevented her from doing so was circumstance (i hammered first). so, according to her own convinctions, she was on the jklash mislynch wagon (or all intents and purposes).

[Antihero]

1) is the 99.5% stat the same for micros (which have fewer people, fewer scum, and therefore has smaller lynch wagons)? i can buy that stat for large games; i didn't do a data collection, but i bet for micro games it's lower.

2) the argument is a misapplication of statistics and probability anyway. "X event is unlikely to happen and therefore it didn't happen". it's the same argument creationists use to say evolution didn't happen.

[Antihero]

mala fullclaims next post or powerlynch will ensue

[Antihero]

just to be clear this has to do with what happened last night

[Antihero]

i see you on sitechat, mala.

i'm going to go potty and if i don't see a fullclaim by the time i get back, you will be receiving my vote

[Antihero]

i'm cappelletti convention, one-shot roleblocker. i blocked mala last night.

popcorn to wolfy

[Antihero]

no, and it'll be obvious after the massclaim

[Antihero]

popcorn to someone else...

[Antihero]

i'm against a NL.

[Antihero]

the scumbags decided to be conservative and stick with VT and was definitely suboptimal for them (now RC and I are pretty much ICs just because of game design/balance).

i could entertain the idea of a lucky/insanity team.

[Antihero]

I still would put my money on scumMala here, but doubt is starting to seep in. I think seeing scum's kill tonight will really help me. What say y'all?

yeah, i don't know RC. i don't think she'd sit around on a VT claim and/or let her buddy do the same.

[Antihero]

I agree with the bolded.

Also, interesting choice of words for the below part after the bolded.

@Wolfy:

unvote if the numbers are like they are then we are in mylo.

not sure what you're getting at, RC is town.

also, given a 2:7 ratio (which any competent game-designer will use), there can't be a quickhammer even if you grant Wolfy is town

[Antihero]

I can't believe Mala would be so dense. :/

It's funny because even if I wanted to call Antihero scum here, Mala is doing her damnedest to keep me from calling her town.

Mala, how would you rank your scum game?

she's not the only one being dense
:\

[Antihero]

If you have something to say, say it. Just because you blocked Mala last night doesn't mean her partner couldn't have submitted the kill.

Also, quit changing your avatar.

avy's not changing any more.
what are you thinking outside of mala?

[Antihero]

I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I think Mala is scum, insanity, and if you are game I'd vote her with you right now.

But I think I'd still rather NL. I can understand why others would be against that, but from my point of view, that would only help me hunt scum.

all that's going to happen is that i'm going to die

don't get butthurt when i call you dense

[Antihero]

You smug bastard. You're probably right though. If you're scum, you've really pulled one over on me, Antihero.

Who are you going to vote?

if i'm scum, penguin should immediately go on everyone's mod blacklist because 2:7 with a town commuter and scum roleblocker is insanely scum-sided.

i'm gonna take a little time to mull over this game. in the meanwhile, everyone who's NOT confirmed really need to be doing the posting.

[Antihero]

i'm gonna take a little time to mull over this game. in the meanwhile, everyone who's NOT confirmed really need to be doing the posting.

I'm not sure anybody is actually

confirmed

...

I can vote in {lucky, mala} with a preference for mala.

@lucky - I know you're scum reading me, but if I'm scum who's the other one?

reasons? come on, don't hold back

[Antihero]

There were also two town neighbours.

my point still stands.

[Antihero]

VOTE: lucky

[Antihero]

UNVOTE:

[Antihero]

LOLOLOLOLOLO

LLOLLOLOLLOLLLOLL fdjksajfdlsa;lkfas
fdsalkjd;lewakjas
'

dsaff;lkjdsf;lkaes;lkjes

VOTE: lucky

[Antihero]

as long as the vote is for lucky

seriously, that last post almost made me eat my keyboard

[Antihero]

once i gave you reason to think you might get lynched, suddenly a "no lynch" sounds good?

lol

[Antihero]

VOTE: lucky

pinpoint

[Antihero]

So this post, 40 posts before that one, where I express my interest in a no lynch is what? Nothing? I didn't "suddenly" anything.

2 ISO posts, but it's nice that your dilating time to suit your timeline

Btw, keyword "still" should have deterred you making that conclusion.

/belch

that makes it all the more nonsensical.

[Antihero]

whoops

Why are we

not

doing a

no lynch

again? I thought that was the go to move for MiLo

dammit double negatives

[Antihero]

UNVOTE:

wolfy
insanity
mala
lucky

[Antihero]

...waiting for insanity to post...

[Antihero]

i mean lucky

[Antihero]

shit

[Antihero]

I knew we should have lynched lucky

[Antihero]

VOTE: lucky

[Antihero]

mala, please check your vote count.

also, pwetty pwease JUST GIVE US THE $%#@#@$ING FLIP ALREADY

[Antihero]

LOLZ botched hammer

[Antihero]

thank yooooooou, penguin

[Antihero]

LUCKY

i'm sorry.

you only wanted to be my friend.

you only wanted my love.


but i rejected you and only gave you rope instead.

i see the error of my ways, though. PLEASE TAKE ME BACK. I PROMISE TO BE GOOD.

[Antihero]

Antihero blocks Malakittens (successful)

insanity018 rolecops Lucky2u (gets VT result)
insanity 018 kills Kalimar (successful)

oh, PR+kill while both scum are alive?

weak

/sourgrapes mumblemumblemubmkl;dsajfsa;lkfsja;lkfdsa

[Antihero]

i can't believe i went off the goddamn deep end and went full moron when i had scum in my sights....

/ughgflkjdsafjk;ldsajf;ldsa

i suck so hard....

[Antihero]

t's a risk scum have the right to take in my philosophy. I often use trackers, and being tracked to two people, one of whom dies, is hard to wriggle out from. They also lose all the benefits of night actions if that particular player is blocked/interfered with. I respect that other mods/players feel differently.

yeah, yeah, i know. i respect it to.

just ignore me, i'm just enjoying stewing in my own sour grapes.

[Antihero]

ok....

goodbye forever redcoyote....

[Antihero]

it was my fault for going apeshit beserko on egg. it wasn't you redcoyote.

if it makes you feel better, feel free to verbally abuse me. i deserve it.