Micro 412: 9P Rebels In The Palace (Game Over)

[Wake1]

Greetings, everyone.

[Wake1]

UNVOTE: Wake88

[Wake1]

Ika, did you not say RitP was breakable?

[Wake1]

that being said yes wake its breakable,

Why not mention this earlier, regardless?

[Wake1]

that being said yes wake its breakable,

Why not mention this earlier, regardless?

b/c i knew it would be shot down? i have no intrest in bringing up an idea that i know will be shot down you hosted the last game where i brought this up and evetyone went "nope"

Would not a Townie at least try?

[Wake1]

So am I reading this right in that the only difference between this and a standard micro is scum don't have complete knowledge of who the other mafia are?

Correct.

For example, Guard 1 could lynch Guard 2.

The King could lynch either.

[Wake1]

Why does he deserve to be hammered?

[Wake1]

I figured as much.

Thoughts on ika?

[Wake1]

How so?

[Wake1]

Wisdom, what was your reason for voting fuduzn?

[Wake1]

Anatole, what do you think of Wisdom's reason for voting fuduzn?

[Wake1]

VOTE: wake

zero content so far

My playstyle has changed.

I've participated in this game, and I'm reading your vote as an OMGUS.

As soon as I question your reason for voting fuduzn you say it's gut, and immediately counter with a vote.

Feels like self-preservation to me.

[Wake1]

Please explain your gut reason for voting fuduzn.

It shouldn't end at "gut." There's always a reason.

[Wake1]

There's nothing more,

his posts gave me bad vibes

Please articulate why.

[Wake1]

Wake, vibes can't be explained. They're just vibes. The more you insist, the more it feels pointless, and the more I think you are scum.

Gut feeling. Bad vibes. You say you can't explain it, and then omgus me with your contrived "he's posted zero content."

You're a smart man. "Posts" indicates plural, so there must be at least one reason why you felt his posts were scummy.

That you think my insistence is scummy is, in itself, ridiculous. From you I am wanting answers, so am content asking.

[Wake1]

Wake, vibes can't be explained. They're just vibes. The more you insist, the more it feels pointless, and the more I think you are scum.

I still don't see any content from you. Finding something you think is pushable and asking one million questions about it is not content.

No, there's no other explanation than I thought he is scummy and wanted him lynched. No matter how many times you ask, that will be it.

Content is subjective. That you think I'm doing nothing to progress the game doesn't mean that's the case.

You lynched him because he was "scummy," yet you're refusing to attempt explaining it. We deserve more.

[Wake1]

Completely understandable. Please take your time Edos.

[Wake1]

Flubber, may I please have your take on Wisdom's current actions?

[Wake1]

Flubber, please note 287.

Your thoughts, Boonskiies?

[Wake1]

Not liking ika's latest post.

[Wake1]

With this game, the weakness for Scum is that the Guards must redirect players' attention off of their King's wagon.

What we should do is tabulate who's been redirecting attention off of wagons.

[Wake1]

Why are you disinterested in the JasonWazza wagon, Wisdom?

[Wake1]

And, so, why?

Is it another one of those fantastical vibes?

[Wake1]

So why

did

you hammer fuduzn, Wisdom?

[Wake1]

Oh, I see.

You contributed to the fuduzn lynch, and you said it was because he was Scummy. For one who wants explanations from others, you certainly have not been forthcoming on the details, my friend.

I think I'd rather talk with you about this than your attempt to have me talk about Boonskiies instead. I would really appreciate it if you would give me more legitimate and honest answers, so you can get me off your trail.

[Wake1]

VOTE: Wisdom

[Wake1]

Now I'm interested.

[Wake1]

My meta within each site is different. I tend to ask many questions on mafiascum.net.

It's not that I don't care about anything else. It's that you contributed to fuduzn's lynch and said it was because you found him Scummy, but never explained why. I then asked you, and you repeated that it was a feeling, and I countered by saying there's always at least some teeny, tiny little reason why players find other players Scummy. Was it because of his tone? The words he wrote? His hairstyle? His demeanor? Why? Don't actions that result in people getting lynched require reasons? And since you've been avoiding and ignoring my simply, thorny question, I don't quite like it. Wisdom, if you're Town you need to be honest and forthright, and at least make an attempt to articulate why you've voted for fuduzn. "Scummy" isn't good enough. Your reaction to my wanting answers from you is why I'm not letting this go.

I want answers, please. Please work with me, Wisdom, instead of struggling against me. We need to work together, so your honesty and willingness to be forthright is what is required, and is everything people keep saying in MD is good for the game. Please articulate the exact reason you contributed to getting fuduzn killed.

[Wake1]

Klingon, Flubber, what do you think of a Wisdom lynch today?

[Wake1]

wisdom is almost certainly town

Why?

[Wake1]

Anatole is intervening on Wisdom's behalf. Does this have relevance in a RitP Setup?

I'd like you to work with me, Wisdom, and that includes answering me honestly and thoroughly on why you contributed to fuduzn being mislynched. In spite of this you're now asking me about Boon, when I am wanting answers from you and you either avoid or ignore me. Why did you vote for fuduzn? Trying to redirect my attention to Boonskiies will not work. Please answer my question, or I will continue to focus on you this game.

All I want are answers. If you're Town, please be Town and work with me.

[Wake1]

What's so difficult about it?

You mislynched fuduzn. He wanted pressure applied to you. I came to you for answers. You have not answered them fully.

Wake

: "Why exactly was fuduzn scummy enough to mislynch?"

Wisdom

: "I felt he was Scummy." "He's naturally scummy."

Wake

: "

Why exactly

did you find him scummy."

Wisdom

: "He's scummy, he's scummy, I just felt he's scummy."

Basically, you were blatantly wrong and overconfident in your ISO, regarding fuduzn being Scum.

That Anatole continues to defend you is making me feel you're really the King.

I don't think it's that hard to break it down as to why you mislynched fuduzn. I'm asking for exact details. "Gut," and "Scummy" aren't good enough. If you're able to lead a mislynch, you're able to answer basic questions.

Anatole I'm not being hard-headed. He's not answering me and trying to weasel out of it instead.

[Wake1]

I answered you. You're just not accepting my answer. That's your problem.

You're deliberately avoiding answering me, and that is and will continue to be a problem for you this game.

If you refuse to answer me fully—and I say this with respect—I will continue to press you for evading me.

I want to know exactly why you found fuduzn scummy in this game. Do you think you shouldn't explain it?

[Wake1]

But can you guarantee that he can't fake that as scum?

no, but it makes it a lot easier to buy that he actually thinks he's right, which gives him town points

Anatole, if I voted for you and when asked why I simply said "because he's scummy," would that satisfy you?

[Wake1]

I'm not avoiding anything, man. I answered to all your questions. You have to learn that there are people who scumhunt with their gut.

Gut.

Scumhunting with their gut.

Usually there's something that bothers the gut, which in turn causes the person to pursue that player.

What was it that irked your gut?

Was it fuduzn's association with other players? Was it something he said? Was it his voting pattern? Was it indigestion? Was it a position he took?

What was it exactly? What was was it? You don't have to be afraid to relax, gather up your thoughts, and answer truthfully, correct?

I want to know. I want you to tell me. Why

exactly

did you find him scummy?

[Wake1]

But can you guarantee that he can't fake that as scum?

no, but it makes it a lot easier to buy that he actually thinks he's right, which gives him town points

Anatole, if I voted for you and when asked why I simply said "because he's scummy," would that satisfy you?

no, because presumably in this situation I'm fu with a town PM

If I'm a third party townie? probably

and this is assuming it's day one in the hypothetical ^

Let's say Day 1 that I contributed to Wisdom getting mislynched. He flipped Town. My answer for voting was "he's Scummy."

Would that be enough for you, or would you not wonder? Maybe you would probe at it, and try to get a better grasp on the "why" of it?

[Wake1]

I am being respectful with you all, whether you are Town or Scum.

It would be great if I could receive the same general respect in return.

Wisdom aided in mislynching fuduzn, and I feel his reason for mislynching him is, at best, ambivalent. Are we not supposed to pry for answers? Are we supposed to languish in apathy? No, I do not believe so. Let's ask questions and do what we must to attain something we need: thorough answers. In Wisdom we have a player who continues to not specify for even a minute why exactly he mislynched fuduzn. I do not like mysteries. It may be that he knowingly mislynched fuduzn, and has passed it of as "he's scummy," and now believes he is exempt from reprisal. No my friends, that's not the game we've come to love. None of us are beyone reproach. No one here has the right to be free from being questioned. He has the right to struggle, avoid, evade, and otherwise react negatively to my questions, but I have the right to keep prodding him for answers, because I have the feeling he's lying to us all. I feel you Anatole and Flubber as well should help me in applying pressure to Wisdom, to better sort out where Wisdom stands in this game. I am open to being interrogated for answers. I believe Wisdom should as well.

[Wake1]

I could compromise on an ika lynch for now.

fail

im fine with my myslycnch as well

You could join the Wisdom wagon instead.

Klingoncelt could join it, too.

[Wake1]

I don't recall some of ika's play.

He isn't playing well, but I suspect he's Town.

Klingon, it may be more prudent if you and ika help me in applying pressure to Wisdom, if only tentatively.

[Wake1]

Honestly, here's where I'm standing at right now.

I want to play this game, but when I'm personally insulted and otherwise abused—in spite of the fact that I'm being very respectful to everyone else—it destroys my morale and makes me not want to care or play. My time is pretty darn precious to me, so it wouldn't make sense to stick around and be lashed at for asking questions when this should be a fun game you derive enjoyment from. The condescension and snappiness from Anatole, Wisdom, and Flubber aren't called for, and if it continues I will definitely replace out, because I don't see why I should put time towards being treated like a bad person. For now I'm going to take a V/LA from this game. If, when I return to the game, I continue experiencing bad behavior then I'll just replace out, because it's not worth it. Pokerface invited me to play this game, and I want to, but when I'm getting treated like crap simply because I'm interrogating and pressuring players—while being respectful at that—I don't want to be pulled through the mud. I think if I'm treating players with respect, regardless of how I go about asking questions, I should be treated with the same sort of common human decency and general respect. If that's not going to happen, and I'm going to get vomited on every time I probe and prod for answers, then I'll just take my time elsewhere.

If you want a strong Town player who can give very thorough reads and be active, don't treat me like crap. It's not fun. That's all I have to say for now.

[Wake1]

You're over-simplifying it.

I didn't think it was pointless to ask you exactly why you found him scummy. That wasn't pointless. I wanted answers, instead of constant avoidance. The real crap, which is what I'm taking issue with, is the way you and some other players treated me while I while prodding you for answers. As was said in 479, I'm not going to waste my time if I'm going to be treated that way. That's not crap. Expecting sportsmanship isn't crap at all. The reason I didn't respond earlier to you was because I didn't want to say mean things to you in my anger, which wouldn't help the game at all. Basically, a break to cool down. If you're Town Wisdom, the way you treat fellow players does matter, especially if they're Town as well.

[Wake1]

yes you are and the fact your trying to make an excuse for it by pointing it towards mods is really makes the argument that your are all the stronger

I do not understand. Please clarify.

[Wake1]

Frankly, no. I did think someone might take the bait I laid, in hopes of riling me. If you're actually Town, you will have some explaining to do post-game, because you're completely off if genuine.

I think your post is more or less a poorly-constructed act meant to try and get a rise out of me, because an opportunity was presented for you to try and anger me in hopes that I'd replace out. Based on that forethought (or lack thereof), I'm quite comfortable with lynching you today. If you're Town, we'll talk via PM, because things need to be set straight before they get any more insane.

VOTE: ika

[Wake1]

ika

You've done nothing in 62 and 167. In 168 you know RitP is breakable yet you said nothing because you didn't think anyone would care. No you assumed that. If you were Town you should of tried. You didn't and someone actually had to remind of the fact. You say it's breakable, yet you said nothing. Not looking good there. In 171 you're knowledgeable of it being able to be broken yet you side with Wisdom that's it not even worth the time. You also didn't try it when you were a Guard in my own RitP game offsite.

173 and 175 are virtually worthless. As for your 177, forgive me for keeping in mind that if you were Scum you certainly wouldn't want to even entertain the notion, because, as you said, it's quite capable of breaking this game wide open. You didn't know, you didn't try. Don't be lazy. Makes you look suspicious. Your 180 is merely an echo of the same lowly sentiment in 177, in that you know how to break the game but you didn't even try, which makes it look like you're Scum not wanting to bring up how to nail the Scum. Additionally, 187 and 238 are worthless as well. Well, actually, your 187 does explain a thing or two about your latest unfortunate behavior.

243 makes you look like Boonskiies, but without the charm and good will. By and by that tactic is horrible and will only hurt the Town by denying us the time we need to come to better decisions. As for 290, it's horrible. No wonder players are apathetic. You should know active lurking is Anti-Town, yet you proudly broadcast this as if you think it gives you permission to get away with it. If you're Town I daresay you're behaving like a Village Idiot. Consequently, I must wonder what sort of Village Idiot doesn't intentionally active lurk and troll others. Must be an ego trip or some other small thing that has little or no bearing to this game whatsoever. 326 is yet another blorp in the bucket.

Oh, look, so is 370. Why lookie here, 375 DOES something. It asks a question. We've got a question asked here, folks. I'm feeling a bit of fire in my belly, like this guy is onto something and is about to turn it all around in order to put Town in a better position. I feel it. He'll turn for the better. Wait, no, it's 464. He's fine with his own lynch and isn't doing anything about it. More strong, exemplary Townplay here ladies and gents. What other gems shall we find in this pile of cyber manure?

Well, he's trying to personally insult me by saying everyone hates me and that I ask for everything and that I eat hemochromatic babies and whatnot. That's swell. I guess it's a lot easier to personally vilify someone in a game instead of doing the legwork, like asking gameplay-related questions. Oh my, he's also saying I always have to be the first to get an answer, as if that has any sort of basis in reality. What kind of slanderous little punk do you think you are to be trying to smear me with your crap? Enough already. I think, if you're actually not Scum, you had better get a grip and try to understand things better before you go shooting off your mouth based on what you heard from someone heard who heard something from someone else, etc. Don't you know gossip is a harmful thing, and that usually what actually happened isn't really what you're being told? Have some common sense man. If you're going to slander me, in a live game, based on some third-hand gossip you managed to take as God's honest truth, I will pin you to the wall in this game and drill it through your head that what you're saying and doing is crap, is unacceptable, and isn't going to be taken lightly when it's done in my presence.

And yet here you dare stand, puffing out your chest against me, as if you have any damned sort of credence to talk to me that way. Who in the Hell do you think you are? You've been nothing but Anti-Town this game. If you're not going to do anything, but instead do everything you can to hurt Town and piss people off, I suggest you take a hint and replace out of this game immediately. I don't know who this guy is parading as ika, but he's being mean and vile and literally trying to piss me off with some of the worst lies and feces he can smear me with. Knock it off. Now. If this impostor running around in ika's account thinks he can keep slandering me in this game while doing nothing to advance it, I'll be forced to Blacklist you for being nothing but a jerk. I hope this is a wake-up call to stop your shitty behavior and get back onto the right side of playing Mafia. 'Cause if you don't, and you do it long enough, other people are going to notice it too, and won't want to play with you.

As for my read on you, you're both Anti-Town and Scummy. You've blatantly insulted and trolled me (personally as well), and you even said in 187 that you're going to highly troll this game with your hammering crap, which tells me you don't care at all about trolling players. What have you done?!? You've done NOTHING! You asked a few trivial questions, expressed how you didn't want to share a tactic that can break the game in Scum's favor, and dared to troll me in this game. You need to stop, now, and play the damned game without being so limp-wristed, lippy, and rude. I have 0—

ZERO

—damned tolerance for that kind of crap. Play the game, form reads, make accusations, do SOMETHING, or get out of this game.

[Wake1]

VOTE: Wisdom

[Wake1]

ALmost replaced out because the game was pretty much ruined for me. Let's see what happens.

[Wake1]

i stand by the fact that my apathy didnt grow out of being scum this time around but still actualy out of the fact that reck and generic repalced out.

i like playing with reck b/c hes just a hilarious troll/player to play with and gen is just pure randomness

really after that entire fight that fought out and seeing them replaced i lost intrest in the game as a whole.

that being said what i said to wake was outside of my alignemnet ane real talk to him that he cant take any negativity b/c he takes it too seriously. gran was right about saying hes soft overall and i simpily showed him he makes exucese about it and he decided to think i was insulting him when i was merly stating a fact.

if you learn anything wake is that i dont rile player to make them repalce out when i say thing sike that its cus its the blunt truth, even if i was town in this game iwould of said the same thing

i just looked at the near end of dead chat and it still remains the same for you wake: you cant take some simple playstlye insults or someone just attackign your play. people are an ass, people are jerks, you either need to learn to either just ignore it or just accept it

That you think it's the blunt truth is merely your opinion. I can just as easily say you speak as if you're an unintelligible highschool drop-out and pass it off as it being the blunt truth.

I play these games to have fun. Not to be called an idiot or be talked down by people who don't even know me. If you want to get nasty with me over simple gameplay, why the hell shouldn't I show you the exact kind of nastiness you show me? You throw a rock at me, why shouldn't I lob at you?

Being an asshole and a jerk shouldn't be tolerated in these games because they drive down the value of the forum. If you think that's ok, you're basically saying it's alright to rip people apart in these games. You wouldn't like being savaged in this game to the point of replacing out, and all you're doing is giving people justification to be as bad or worse than you and others were in this game.

Don't be an asshole. Don't treat people like crap. It's not right, and it's not acceptable.

[Wake1]

I like when people play respectfully. Civilly.

I backed down from our fight because if I responded to you likewise Staff would undoubtedly step in to keep me from fighting back.

It's probably PF would not allow me to use my creativity to insult every bit of your gameplay every chance it was presented.

I don't like hurting people. You're basically pushing me to hurt people in these games, like you do others. That would not be a good thing.

That, and people tend to WotC others simply because of little things, and would definitely WotC me if I treated others as you did to me.

Why would I want to be like you and get my jollies hurting people?

[Wake1]

Maybe you should question why people treat you like that

Not everything you believe is true. Gossip is a bad thing, and rarely does it fit with the actual events. Maybe you should question why people are saying those things, find out for yourself, and ask both sides before automatically believing things as gospel truth.

[Wake1]

1)I like when people play respectfully. Civilly.

2)I backed down from our fight because if I responded to you likewise Staff would undoubtedly step in to keep me from fighting back.

3)It's probably PF would not allow me to use my creativity to insult every bit of your gameplay every chance it was presented.

3)I don't like hurting people. You're basically pushing me to hurt people in these games, like you do others. That would not be a good thing.

4)That, and people tend to WotC others simply because of little things, and would definitely WotC me if I treated others as you did to me.

5)Why would I want to be like you and get my jollies hurting people?

1) i dont, we disagree on it nothign more nothing less

2) if staff got involved b/c someone who is not mod/me reported it (and i dont report unless most extreme) then i would step in myself asking who did it and that unless if i do it/mod that it should be disregarded. that being said your attacks (the one from the newbie @CABD) is a direct attack and not attack on play, i attak peoples play and when i say something about real, its outside of alignment

3) thats an exucse on why you didnt, you never asked him yourself nor even tried it

4) not much you can do about it then. but the real question is: is that the real reason why you are WOTC or is that what you jsut beileve?

5) you dont have to? its jsut my playstyle to be agressive to players

1) Then I guess we disagree. Other players here like it when the game is played with some civility and respect.

2) Right. So as long as you attack someone's play it's ok, but if you attack them personally (if you can even call it that) then suddenly it's hands-off. What a joke. Players shouldn't be attacking each other. All you're doing is giving me an excuse to be an extremely aggressive player.

3) That needs clarification, because it sounds like you're responding to something else.

4) Some people use WotC for good reason, and others don't. Quite a few people don't have a problem playing with me, and actually invite me to play in their games. If I went around trolling and attacking peoples' play like you do I'd undoubtedly get WotC'd for it. Do you get WotC'd by people for doing what you do to piss off and anger players?

5) Like calling players names? Or being condescending? It almost feels like you're pushing me to be an aggressive player. But, once I do that, then your counterparts/opposites will come in screaming that it isn't right to attack how people play, and then the cycle just repeats itself. If it's not you promoting trolling/aggression, then it's others promoting anti-trolling/peace. Seems this forum's playerbase is starkly divided on how to play.

Umm, I don't know anything about any gossip nor do I care about it. You just now whined that people don't treat you right, and I'm telling you, as one of the people who supposedly treated you "not right", that you should question why it happens.

Some

people on this site are malicious and aren't above spreading malicious lies and rumors. Some do have legitimate reasons to be upset with me, but some don't, and some use this to their advantage to lie. I already understand why some of it happens. You never had anyone spread a lie about you, ever?

[Wake1]

uhh Im telling you thats not what I'm talking about

You were a terrible townie this game, failed to answer questions, failed to explain yourself, failed to cooperate, fixated on a single dumb thing. If you cannot look back and understand that these things can cause someone to feel greatly annoyed at you and call you an idiot, then there's no point in this exchange

The fact of the matter is that I had little time, and was injured/sick. On top of that the apathy and mistreatment by you and certain others didn't make me feel like contributing. How you treat people affects how they play in these games. I did fixate on you for contributing to fuduzn's mislynch because at that time you were only saying it was because because he felt Scummy, but not why. Then after you called me an idiot and provided reason why you felt he was Scummy, I just didn't have the time, and ika bringing in outside stuff to try and personally embarrass/anger me didn't help the Town at all. A lot of you did annoy me with your own crappy and piss-poor play, but I don't recall naming any one of you idiots, whether you deserved it or not.

[Wake1]

Wake-Why does this happen in so many of your games?

I'm not trying to pick on you but since I've joined here, I've noticed this same argument after several of your games.

You don't act this way on the other site.

What's different here?

Maybe if you figured that out, you'd have an easier time.

Also, your last comment in the dead link, implying town only won cuz ika gave up is not cool IMO. Especially since you were town here.

It's a long story.

At USMB I don't have a group of malicious people trying to make my experience hell. I did at debatepolitics.com, like you may have, and for a brief time I did at USMB, but those trolls have mostly been eradicated by Staff.

Ika as King did not do much to keep himself from being lynched. I didn't say Town won only because of it. Please be more prudent with the way you're wording your words, Wolfie, because I didn't say that. If ika had done things differently it would have been more difficult for the Town to lynch him.

[Wake1]

There are no malicious people, Wake. Consider, just for one second, that maybe you are in the wrong and cause other people to react like that.

Not all the time.

It's wrong to assume that just because more than two people say something that it must be true.

There are other players who have no problem playing with me, and would play again in the future.

I'm not playing that game where "they said, therefore true" crap. It's dishonest and wrong.

[Wake1]

Me neither, Wake. What I'm saying is my own opinion based on my own experience with you in this game. Don't assume I'm sheeping others, cuz I am not.

There are others who, in the past, made up lies or exaggerations of the truth, and continue to spread them while others believe it.

You may not be sheeping, but there are many naive sheep here. It's a despicable business, really.

You got mad at me for prodding you for answers. In Mafia we prod players for answers.

[Wake1]

"Town did win, which is good, but ika wasn't doing much to survive." ~Wake

Your comments implied town won because of ika.

My point is that if ika were as active and competent as, say, Titus or FakeGod or me or anyone else capable of digging in deep there would have been a greater struggle for Town. If you read ika's posts, you can see how some of them weren't strong at all.