Micro 465: Molla's New Roles Mafia - GAME OVER

[snscompt1]

While I'm reading, can someone give me the gist as to where we are at. Also, I'm scum. Beware.

[snscompt1]

Damn. I hate when I make a joke and it's poor timing.

I finished skimming. Neat setup. ISO'd yakko and he was just a flake. However, I a 2 shot Vengeful Midnight Townie. However, he failed to mention that he already used both shots.

Why are we even voting here?

VOTE: No Lynch

[snscompt1]

As I was reading, I looked at both the votecounts for Day 1 and Day 2(not that Day 2 was really fair). I got nothing. All three of you were on both lynches and Yako wasn't voting. I'm happy to say that I've narrowed scum down to the three of you

[snscompt1]

First and foremost because I'm town.

Secondly because that's how you achieve the best case scenario?

Right now there is a 1/3 chance at hitting scum. Someone dies tonight. It narrows it down to a 50/50. Lynching now only benefits scum.

[snscompt1]

Im here. Slightly confused. And wont be able to post til tomorrow. Maybe late tonight. Im vla every weekend.

[snscompt1]

Quick post to get the game moving at least a little.

I was informed that Taly is a Nosy Neighbor. It did not include an alignment.

As for your "thing" you were trying to see if I picked up on Saul, nothing stuck out to me. I have reasons why I think both of you are scum and I'm still trying to decide what I'm making up and seeing because I want to see it, compared to it actually being scummy.

Furthermore on Taly's Nosy Neighbor thing, I was confused because I thought that this made Taly automatically town since a Neighbor is a town role. But I recalled that I have played two games where there was a scum Neighborizor and a Loud Jailkeeper. Both are town based roles yet were given to scum.

[snscompt1]

why would scum want others to know their alignments and roles* X-x I'm typing in a hurry at the moment, I'm having to run some errands with my family rn

They wouldnt want others to know their alignment.
Having someone know they have a pointless role isnt alignment indicative. Why would scum want to tell people they have a pointless role? To prove they arent lying. This is a new game. maybe youre able to tell the mod a role you wish to tell a player you have. Who knows.

Ive done a lot of rereading and will explain tomorrow when Im back home, but Im fairly positive Saul is town.

[snscompt1]

Omg. Yes.
This was the worst mistake you couldve made Taly.

Youre not even reading what I write. I never said you faked your role, I said it was a possibility. I think your role is real. Why would scum have a Nosy Neighbor role? Why would Town? What makes it alignment indicative?
Your argument is that they are telling someone their role. So? The role does nothing. Why is it town? This, from what Ive seen, is just a form of visitation as almost every role has had. It allows scum the opportunity to do exactly what you did and say "Im town because I told people my role through mod confirmation".
I can link a game where scum was a neighborizor, which is the same thing more or less. BBmolla was actually in that game, which is possibly where he got the idea for this setup. Then there was the game where I was a jailer and my target was notified that they were jailed. I was scum. Youre trying to prove youre town based on your role, which isnt your alignment.

Youve targeted my slot since the beginning of the game. Yakko was a lurker. Plain and simple. I looked at his posts to see if I could gain some sort of confirmed town insight, but half the posts were him not even paying attention to the game. He wasnt lurking on purpose, he was just not active.

Youve focused solely on this slot all game which by all regards is clever in hindsight. You push a lurking slot all game but never night kill them. No one is going to lynch them for fear of being wrong. You dont get a wagon started but constantly voice your distaste. You keep the slot alive til the end and they have no defense and everyone wonders how that slot survived so long.

Unfortunately for you, I dont think you forsaw Yakko being replaced with a more than competant player. I do tend to get over excited but generally am spot on.

More in a bit. That should get things started.

[snscompt1]

I have a response to everything, but would rather wait for Saul to read. It's a waste and infuriating to have to argue with someone you know for a fact is scum.

[snscompt1]

I can read but, I mean, what are you waiting on me for? I'm conftown now; it's your job to convince me that Taly is scum and you aren't.

As I said above: My making comments just tells scum what to say. I have things I want to look at that I can't here, and I really hate that you can't answer of the questions I put to Yakko, so that just sucks.

I will ask why you're not voting for Taly, that's just standard play in LyLo. Let's say I decide he's scum, do you want to hammer for some reason?

I was waiting to see if Taly's post screamed scum to you. Apparently not. Some things just stand out to me and I think others think the same way.

I was on mobile, which is why I said I wouldn't really be posting until late last night or today. I'm now at a computer. Doing voting and tags and such is a pain on mobile.

However, I am curious, why does it matter if I vote Tally? You have the deciding vote regardless. If you decide that I'm not town and vote me, then I die. If you decide Tally is scum, as I hope to show you, and you vote her, I'm obviously going to vote her. So what does it matter? You won't be voting until you're certain, right? This isn't important, and we can discuss it post game I suppose.

VOTE: Taly

[snscompt1]

Also, if I were scum.

Why the fuck would I target you to see my role.

Then try to get you lynched in lylo afterwards?

Why would you target me at all? That's one of the reasons I was confused. You're saying I'm scum and plan to vote me the next day. Why didn't you target Saul? As scum you'd want to target Saul to get him to vote me, and town!you would think the same way. So asking me why you did what you did is redundant as I'm not you and can see no clear reason why you did.

[snscompt1]

Plus, he killed House. House was ON his slots ass last dayphase - do you really think scum would pass up an opportunity to get an assured-vote of themselves in lylo?

I'm not faking or lying about anything.

I checked Houses posts from yesterday and he barely posted. He more or less said "yakko is scum by PoE". That's all. He never made a case despite how much you tried to get him to do it for you.

You say you're not faking or lying. If you were actually town, you wouldn't need to say that because you know you arent. It seems like you're moreso trying to convince yourself that you're not scum compared to Saul.

So, for the first lie, stretch of the imagination, whatever you wish to call it, please quote on the previous day where House was "ON his slots ass".

I didn't kill House. I have no more shots left, and I obviously didn't die. So it wasn't me.

You've come up with this argument as to why I killed House, so let me return the favor by sharing what I think happened.

House was a Rolestopper. He could potentially cause scum to not make a kill. You needed that gone. In addition, he already confirmed your role and supported you because of that role. Now you kill him before he changes his mind so you can say "House said I was town and knew my role" even though he's dead.

[snscompt1]

Remember House? Yeah, I'm sure you killed him because he probably would be voting for you again today.

Speculation and wifom. You could've killed him to make this argument. And other things I've already stated.

[snscompt1]

I'm self confirming I'm town, and backing up with my role. Shouldn't you be doing this as well?

Confirming you as town? Uh, no.
Confirming myself as town based on my role? Uh, no. Role is not alignment indicative. Furthermore, if I had a scum role, mine would be more town than yours since mine would punish town for killing scum. Not very balanced. But like I said, role does not equal alignment.

Yes, you said that maybe my role consisted of telling people the role I wanted them to hear. You're painting what I've said as my role and what it does as entirely something else.

This is a "New Role" game. I threw it out there as a possibility. I've already stated I don't think that that is the case, so how am I painting a picture without a brush? I'm not the Picasso Painter

I targeted your slot since the beginning of the game? Where did this come from? I've announced suspicion of your slot, yes, but I never gunned to get you lynched and I always had other suspicions and thoughts that took priority over yourself at the time. Also, I was NEVER at a full "distate" with your slot, I've said I wasn't fond of what I've seen and I found it scummy, but you're blowing my interactions with your slot out of what it is.

Will come back to this later.

Honestly, if you were that much of a problem - I would have NKed you already, I'm not a fucking idiot. I don't take chances in mafia especially when I'm scum.

How would you know that I would be a problem? I hadn't posted any content yet? I didn't even know who was the last town out of you and Saul. You're making an argument based on information you didn't have at the time but do now.

You say Yakko was a lurker as if it wasn't a negative thing... He wasn't paying attention to the game? Why is that not at least somewhat raise for concern? Plus, why are you targeting me now because I'm sure as hell not the only person who has targeted your slot for it.

No, Yakko lurking was a negative thing. But I'm saying from what I saw, he wasn't watching the game at all. Scum watch the game and lurk, which is the argument you're trying to present. He wasn't. I know his role. His posts show lack of coherence. Not paying attention isn't a concern besides requesting a replacement. He eventually did get replaced.
I'm "targeting" you now because you're proven scum. Why would you want me to target anyone else? Would you like me to target dead players or Saul? Who would you like me to target? I haven't started making arguments until today.

Are you kidding me? You do know that I didn't vote for you in D3 because I was WAITING for a replacement. Do you honestly think I'm this dense? Why in the HELL would scum just sit and wait for "possibly a little less competent" player come in and let them fuck themselves over?

I... Sns, your argument makes no sense.

By the way, if you are saying "OMG YES." like you've "caught" scum, where is your vote to back it up? Otherwise, why are you now coming out with these BIG posts trying to paint me as scum saying "YOU'VE MADE THE BIGGEST MISTAKE KEEPING ME ALIVE. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAH!"?

I thought you were going to explain your shit TOMORROW, not randomly just wait for me to respond.... Then launch a post against me?

Sigh... House really was right about you being scum.

This is just a mess. You're really using a lot AtE right now. With just a tad bit of flailing.
None of this makes any sense.

[snscompt1]

I have more reasons I found that further prove Taly being scum and can post them in 5 minutes as I already have it typed up and mostly finished.

However, you're saying that this post I'm making now determines the game. I'd rather not waste it on arguments that won't look at without discussing it.

Instead, I have a question for you Saul:
What the hell are you doing?

There has been no case AT ALL made against my slot that makes me scum besides Yakko being inactive. You've done nothing to help this.
I have found quite a few reasons proving Taly is scum. You've made no comment on those.
You said it's up to me to change your mind. Are you excluding yourself? You're done with the game and just quit if I don't do a good enough job convincing you?

You're willing to bet the entire game on this. You won't go digging and see how Yakko wasn't scummy at all? That falls on me only? Bull.

I'm quite pissed right now that you're just saying "fuck it" and going to hammer if you don't like this post. Drag out the game? It's been 1 day since the thread opened. I've been actively trying to show you how Taly is scum.

Before you give up, read my posts again. Read Taly's. Then if you still feel like saying "fuck it", I won't stop you. I'm not as invested in this game as you should be but at the moment, I seem to care more than you. You decide who dies. You decide the game. Don't fuck it up.

[snscompt1]

OK, we'll see how your heads play in this game. I just think it's cleaner if you had a less volatile reaction. However, I don't believe scum would say that out of the gate(A reason why I am liking the McMenno push, but I want an answer from him). So I am thinking you're being genuine in your response to me for the most part. Very slight town lean.

I do feel that 164 is townie from MoP.

The first two interactions Taly has with MoP, both giving reasons for him to be town based on....being genuine?

Why does everyone on the McMenno wagon have at least 1 vote on them? I find this interesting. Could there be a connection?

counterwagon shenanigans if he's scum?? idk. hard to say without knowing his alignment? who was this question to?

your vote is good tho. even though i'm unsure about how to feel him/his wagon, i feel oddly apathetic towards the wagon due to.. how he's handling it? i don't know if that's the best way to describe it.

....bulge isn't caught up >_> i guess he doesn't get a say this time.

This set off alarms. Not at first, but after I found Taly was scum. MoP is directing him to keep the vote on McNuggets. Tally was on the McChicken wagon and put him to L-1. Perfect scum spot. Not the person to throw the hammer if wrong, and yet far enough at the end of the wagon to make it seem natural.

I would have expected McMenno to claim an alignment along with his role

*blink*

*blink*

Um... What? Why? Isn't it obvious what alignment he'd claim?

Yeah, he would claim town. But the thing that is weird, is that he didn't claim town? He is at L-1, shouldn't he have made a connection between his ability and alignment? That would have given us more than just a "his ability isn't specific to an alignment, so we should wait to see if he is true." Asking him to claim wasn't just to see what he could do with his role-abilities, but to see how he would answer it.

I could be looking into it too much, but it catches me off guard where McMenno didn't say anything about his alignment. It could be he was trying to avoid saying something he shouldn't.

286

Nice try, please provide a reason, or thought - if you think menno is scum, then give an intent and say how so.

that's really not wierd. EVERYONE claims town, it's obvious and unneeded.

Tally has been obsessed with claiming alignments all game.

Why?

Because he's scum. He messed up. Why would a true townie ask someone elses alignment? They wouldn't. Taly insists that his role makes him town. How?
Since when does a role equal alignment in these type of games? It doesn't. Taly has been trying to convince everyone that he's town based on his role. That's scum just trying to find an easy way to make a win through invalid reasoning.

Why is this slot scum?

Taly has been off since the beginning. I took the time to show that as soon as I found out you were town. I'm not scum. It's right there in front of you.

[snscompt1]

Thank you for responding and not just hammering. I feel like I can work with you.

I don't need you to present a case as to why you think Yakko is scum and why Taly isn't. I just need to make sure you understand why you're voting before you do. I've seen no arguments against me making me scummier compared to Taly. If you have them hidden away, fine. You get to decide. I just want to make sure you think about who you decide to vote for before just doing it because I can't see myself as scum, nor Yakko.

You said that Taly is pretty much just being Taly, that's fine. I've never played with him and only meta off of games I've played with that person if at all. However, someone can act the same regardless of alignment. Just because they act the same as they did in one of their town games, doesnt make them town.

I wish I could explain Yakko's thought process. I really do, but I can't. Every time he posted it looked like he randomly read a few posts and made up reads based on nothing. I can't explain him any better than you can and I'm the one that replaced him. Imagine how infuriating this is for me?

As for getting a townread on MoP. I can't give you that unless I make it up. I already know he's scum. Searching for reasons as to why he would be town would be me looking for something that isn't there, and then exaggerating it. I don't see MoP as town.

[snscompt1]

You can fuck right off.

ugh i'm crazy against personal attacks so i've given bulge a stern talking to

sorry house

What is with the hostility here?

wwe're like good cop bad cop but bad cop was too bad for good cops likings z

UNVOTE: House

Sorry for the harshness. Wasn't meant to be a personal attack by any means, sorry if it came across that way. Anyway, you can be town for your recent posting.

Thinking shos could be some sort of Jester-ish role. If not, he needs to get his head out of his ass and play. But I don't think it would be safe to lynch him today. Good vig-shot, though.

@McMenno, what do you think of House's 47 (and, subsequently, saul's 63)?

Also, just to clarify, the "good cop, bad cop" thing Bins was talking about is just an incidental difference in playstyles. This isn't a gimmick account. Basically, it should be pretty obvious which one of us is posting.

The only townish thing I can see is him apologizing and trying to put aside being aggressive to try and work with House. He explained that he wasn't doing it on purpose but rather just how he is. He seems sincere. However, that's the problem with Hydras. He did something wrong and his other head caught it and corrected it. So it's hard to tell what Bugle was really thinking compared to what bins told him to say.

That is literally the only thing I can possibly see MoP being town for. The rest was pointless.

[snscompt1]

I've knew what you meant by Taly being obtuse. Now that I know he's scum, I can only assume it was done on purpose. Why? To cause confusion. Unfortunately, as I've stated, I see things that you won't because I KNOW Taly is scum. You don't.

the description of what scum often do

I would like to change this to "sometimes". However, you're right, I didn't view it like that. I know Yakko was town, so I only assumed that he was just giving a half assed effort because he was lazy and not committed. Coming from your view though, I can see how it could be scummy.

[snscompt1]

So sns, if you're town, you're not only fighting what Yakko set you up with, you're fighting something you can't control at all.

That makes me feel a bit better if we end up voting me. If you do, no hard feelings, it's just a game. You win some, you lose some, you make mistakes. I've made my fair share.

Thanks for discussing. I'd like to see how Taly replies to all this.

[snscompt1]

Ok. That was a mess. Again. Just like the end of 645.

Taly, you're refusing to quote where I misrep you and that's getting old. I haven't misrepped, so you can't quote. I understand, but it's annoying.

Saul. Taly is flailing in the wind and raging hard right now. Tell me how this is a town reaction? You've already said that you're most likely going to vote me. Town!him should be trying to convince you right now. But rather, he's screaming at me in complete gibberish and isn't reading the game or purposely making stuff up to make me look bad.

If you want to dissect Taly, please let me know, because I'm having trouble understand his posts.

Pedit: No. I didn't. I said House

could

roleblock a scum kill. Misrepping again or not reading. I don't know and don't care at this point.

[snscompt1]

He hasn't put up much of a major argument against what I've said.

There isn't anything I can argue against when you've said nothing coherent. The stuff I

have

understood are you saying "I'M TOWN", "SNS IS MISREPPING ME", and "I WAS ROLESTOPPED WHICH MAKES ME TOWN". All three statements are false. You're not town, I have never misrepped you. And you were a middleman and nothing happened to your "abilities".

[snscompt1]

Saul, who do you think House targeted last night? A kill went through so that means something.

[snscompt1]

Right which is why I was questioning it.

Ok. So let's say he did target Taly last night. Purely hypothetical as we can't prove it.

Taly targeted me. Which means I was rolestopped. Not that I had anything to do last night but I couldn't have killed House.

The more I think about this, the more it falls into place.

pedit. stuff reading.

[snscompt1]

Since you like lists:

1)

The first reply/comment/thought to or about MoP was this:

OK, we'll see how your heads play in this game. I just think it's cleaner if you had a less volatile reaction. However, I don't believe scum would say that out of the gate(A reason why I am liking the McMenno push, but I want an answer from him). So I am thinking you're being genuine in your response to me for the most part. Very slight town lean.

I didn't townread MoP right off the bat

You never voiced this in any post prior to post 74. So false.

And no. Yakko didn't explain anything anyone asked him as far I can tell besides half assing it.

2)

To not seem eager, to play it right and seem town, to be able to have the hammer vote. You expressed your intention on voting Yakko to just be done with it in post 60

3)

So, you're defending you mislynching people by saying you do that as town? Wouldn't you do that as scum?

4)

Why would town be happy to throw suspicion on someone in lylo, and not back it up with any case or vote?

Because you voted me and Saul didn't. I had been trying to decide who was scum between the two of you and as I've said, I was on mobile and tags are difficult. I made a small case against you, which you're saying I didn't. And at the end of the case, I said "More in a bit. That should get things started."
So, I did make a case and me being excited because you slipped makes sense. So false again.
Why do I need to talk to you? You know I'm town. Arguing and trying to convince you of something you already know, which you will simply refute because you're scum is pointless.

5)

Wow, I forgot we played together in that third game! Definitely going to review that. But that was a bastard game which is a lot different.


pedit: He already said because he wanted to see my reaction. But still, if he positive I was scum, why send scum your role? I'm confused as well.

[snscompt1]

It makes PERFECT sense for Sns to kill House, since House was onto him - and already concluded that sns was scum.

And you couldve killed House just to have his last opinions of you be town, thereby making us believe him. And you couldve killed House just to make this argument against me.

Your wifom arguments don't work.

[snscompt1]

So... you're going to degrade my arguments as WIFOM, OK...

Well they are. You're using speculation and saying what scum!me would do. That's the definition of WIFOM. So yes.

Seriously, I am not that deep in my scum-play, and if I was - I wouldn't have offed someone that would directly contribute in keeping scum alive(townreading someone who's wincon is to survive), in the hypothetical situation that I am scum. Which I am not.

More wifom.

And really, the idea of saying EVERYTHING I've done in this game leads to this "massive scum plan" I must have is mostly speculation - at least on the parts where you guys are WIFOMing about me killing House.

So now you're degrading my arguments by calling them wifom? Right. Well the are, but refer to my first quote of you in this post. Hypocrite.
More wifom arguments about the NK. I've made the same to you.
Being agitated IS anit town. Whether you mean it or not. It prevents the other town members to grasp what you're saying. I have tried to understand many of your posts. But the parts where

YOU FUCKIN

change

the

font

and shit

and state false incoherent statements is beyond what I have time for since I KNOW you're scum. Why do I have to listen to your posts at all? You're scum. The only reason I responding now is to convince Saul.

[snscompt1]

1)

Ok.

2)

Well obviously I wrote the wrong number. Stop raging. It was post 598. Which is post 60 in your iso.

3)

No. I wouldn't. Not unless I thought they were scum or they needed pressure.

4)

I was on mobile. Read please.

Why do I need to talk to you? You and I both know you're scum. So, why are you replying to me? A bit afraid here?

I reply to you, you reply to me, yet because I reply that makes me scum. Fine. This is the one of the most ridiculous reasons I've ever seen considering I can say the same thing back to you. Yet, I'm not. Why? Because it's ridiculous.

5)

There is a difference. These role have some coherent thought that make the game balanced. That didn't.

[snscompt1]

Your all caps in certain words comes across as anger.
And yes, I've done quite a bit of speculation and wifom. But I've stated that's what it was and that it's all speculation.
You came back and said "Ermagurd he killed house because he was a threat". Wifom. Not even acknowledging it. Then you tell me to stop using wifom. Christ.
Then if you're done talking, I've said about as much as I can.

Saul. Up to you. I hope this was enough.

[snscompt1]

Im getting really pissed with all your "woe is me, sns is being a bully". I have said nothing, nothing whatsoever, that even remotely resembles me being a bully. The worst thing Ive said is that your posts are a mess, which they are as Saul agreed. Ive said some of your arguments are lies. Which they are. Ive called some of your arguments wifom, which they are. And the only thing Ive said towards you as a person is that youre a hypocrite and flailing. Both of which are true.

I know youre trying to win but this is ticking me off.

[snscompt1]

Btw, Saul, what was that you noticed and was hoping I would pick up on but didn't?

[snscompt1]

It's not important. I will remind you post game.

[snscompt1]

GG.

[snscompt1]

Well how about that.

It really was a valiant effort, sns. But you were screwed even before you came into the game.

Yeah, I killed House because of his role. You weren't sure if it was me or Taly so I kept you alive. Taly had been a bit crazy throughout the entire game so I tried to play off of that.

I actually thought I almost had you convinced. I started feeling really bad half way through.

@Taly

None of my arguments against you were made up or even stretched. As a scum player I don't lie, I find it works well.

Sorry about the modding and the janky swingy setup. Thanks for playing. Thanks for replacing in and trying your hardest sns. Well played guys.

No problem, was fun anyway.

pedit. Yeah Taly, I thought Saul was coming around but I was fairly positive I was done for the minute I started.

After looking at the interactions between you and MoP, I found around a dozen reasons why you weren't scum. Unfortunately I couldn't exactly voice those, nor did Saul though. You did well except for you going a bit haywire.

[snscompt1]

sns, I'm curious if that worked. Who did you think I thought was scum when you made your night kill?

Slightly yes. I killed House because
1) His role seemed town and I viewed him as town overall. So therefore others probably did too.
2) I hadn't read the whole game thoroughly.
3) You viewed Taly more likely to be scum than House.
Out of the three of you, I needed you on my side to win, so I went with what I saw you posting. So the fact that you thought House was scum is news to me.