Micro 474: Over the Garden Wall Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Lia

I probably would have recruited Nacho too. Pie and Metal would have been options as well, but Nacho mainly for his reputation as a strong player.

[Alchemist21]

Hi.

VOTE: MS

Also I would not have recruited nacho. I would probably have recruited alchemist.

Why?

I'd like the answer to this as well. Unless I'm being stalked I don't think AD has ever seen my scumgame.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Lia

I probably would have recruited Nacho too. Pie and Metal would have been options as well, but Nacho mainly for his reputation as a strong player.

this was probably my least favorite response so far

What didn't you loke about it?

[Alchemist21]

essentially, I don't think it's a good idea to read anyone based on who they'd recruit or how many ppl would recruit them. Dan's attitude is a better reason to town read him.

If you are scum, you have an optimal path that you will take and ultimately you will take it. Anything else that you bullshit is going to be weaker than what your actual reasoning was. Reasoning that makes sense to me and seems genuine enough is worth an early townread from me.

don't see this either. there's really nothing I'd expect him to go out of his way to do given it's post fucking 12. what did you think was safe about it?

Actually, before I answer this:

Alchemist, why pie or Metal Sonic?

I've been scum with Pie before and I think we could have possibly had a good synergy as scum. MS because he joined this game because of me.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: lia

Sing something

Is there a reason you switched to Lia?

[Alchemist21]

I lol at how you reference team mafia

Nacho mamma and alchey are here

Marquis is in the hydra and was in Team Mafia.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: lia

Sing something

Is there a reason you switched to Lia?

[Alchemist21]

mmm, i guess i don't need you to explain that

i'm decently unhappy with his shift from policy lynching me to "nacho will slay the scumteam", although rationale for that is explained by me having a timer thanks to my flavor claim
i don't really like his townread on pieguy

his townread on honey bee is strange: i had a thought that it could be ms townreading the scumpartner who recruited him,

but honey bee does look ok individually and so it's still mainly a thought in the back of my mind

@Nacho, the bolded part seems pretty specific. What makes you think it could come specifically from a player being recruited? Why was it more likely to be scum-scum?

I've seen scum have flimsy and awkward early townreads on Town before (granted this was typically from a scum player who didn't know the Town player), and I could see this kind of early read coming from Town as well.

[Alchemist21]

in team mafia he did the same whole "post a lot in sequence bc hahaha this spam and trolling is typical ms and i dont want to lose this game by mislynching him bc thats way too easy to do" (it's no)

he's trying to be "what a dumb spammer metal sonic is, posting so much and not knowing anything"
and ms is not dumb

what did you think was safe about it?

I thought it was safe because I figured me, you, Sonic were going to be on most people's recruit shortlists, and I assumed his reasoning would be something along the lines of play ability, but I'm now informed that assumption wasn't correct.

MS?

really?

You saw him in Team Mafia go pretty damn far in a Nightless game as scum. Why are you surprised by Nacho saying people would recruit Sonic?

[Alchemist21]

I thought I would be able to tell Marquis from Notty, but I can't. Someone help me learn tne difference.

[Alchemist21]

MS?

really?

Yes?

gaiden *could* be scum.
i doubt that he is.

hi mastin

What's your position on Gaiden? Do you think that he could fake that towntell? Do you think he did?

pie

why are you playing so well in here?

This seems like an odd question when you're his biggest scumread.

@Nacho, the bolded part seems pretty specific. What makes you think it could come specifically from a player being recruited? Why was it more likely to be scum-scum?

Honey Bee seems like a pretty easy target for MS to target as scum, so it seems more likely to me at this point that MS is attempting to clear a partner as opposed to shutting down a very viable mislynch without a real alternative.

Why did you think it was indicative of MS being recruited by Honey Bee and not the other way around? Who do you think scumMS would have recruited?

[Alchemist21]

Also, I'm getting a gut scumlean on Gaiden. He feels more talkative than I remember his early games being.

VOTE: Gaiden

[Alchemist21]

Hey! Jokeclaims are my schtick!

[Alchemist21]

I don't think you're obvTown.

[Alchemist21]

And I suppose all the players who don't think you're obvTown either are my scumbuddies.

[Alchemist21]

[Alchemist21]

Who knows Gaiden well? How does he usually react to suspicion in him?

[Alchemist21]

Also, I'm getting a gut scumlean on Gaiden. He feels more talkative than I remember his early games being.

VOTE: Gaiden

:/
This is such a weak reason for voting someone. Why do you think that he'd be more likely to post as scum than town? Why are you completely ignoring the MS push (which has much much stronger reasoning than this)? What do you think of the Gaiden townslip that's been discussed? Who do you think would have recruited Gaiden?

Who knows Gaiden well? How does he usually react to suspicion in him?

This is something you could very easily check yourself. Is he doing something that you find suspicious? If so, why not make a case out of it instead of asking other people to do your meta research for you?

I don't have any stronger suspicions at the moment, so that's where my vote is. I've actually meta's Gaiden in the past, but I'm not sure how valid it is these days, and the pattern I noticed isn't exactly related to what I'm asking about here. I'm too busy these days to run another second hand meta on him, and I'm asking for first-hand meta which is better than secondhand anwyay.

[Alchemist21]

P.S. I can see the Sonic push, but I don't want him at L-1 yet.

[Alchemist21]

PPS. I don't know who if anyone would have recruited Gaiden. That doesn't stop him from being the initial scum that recruited someone, and I don't think he Towntelled just by saying he wouldn't get recruited.

[Alchemist21]

Explain why pie is playing "so good" when, if you are town, the major thing he's been doing all game is absolute garbage

Whether or not Pie is correct and MS is scum, I think Pie's posts have been pretty solid. Calling his posts garbage seems like an early attempt to try to discredit Pie.

[Alchemist21]

P.S. I can see the Sonic push, but I don't want him at L-1 yet.

PPS. I don't know who if anyone would have recruited Gaiden. That doesn't stop him from being the initial scum that recruited someone, and I don't think he Towntelled just by saying he wouldn't get recruited.

Who do u think picked ms then

Anyone that saw his performance in the Nightless may have recruited him. I'm not sure beyond that.

[Alchemist21]

Also, I'm leaning towards Nacho being more likely scum than MS being scum right now.

[Alchemist21]

P.S. I can see the Sonic push, but I don't want him at L-1 yet.

why not? we have two days until deadline. nothing revolutionary is going to happen.

PPS. I don't know who if anyone would have recruited Gaiden. That doesn't stop him from being the initial scum that recruited someone, and I don't think he Towntelled just by saying he wouldn't get recruited.

probably no one would have recruited gaiden.

Explain why pie is playing "so good" when, if you are town, the major thing he's been doing all game is absolute garbage

Whether or not Pie is correct and MS is scum, I think Pie's posts have been pretty solid. Calling his posts garbage seems like an early attempt to try to discredit Pie.

it's a very strange approach to take when someone is pushing you as scum above doing anything else to just sit back and go "wow his posts as so great" instead of actually addressing the pushes he's making and trying to work with him.

Also, I'm leaning towards Nacho being more likely scum than MS being scum right now.

why is that?

It may be strange, but I don't think it's necessarily scum indicative. The case I can see for scum MS is the "he posts shit for the sake of posting shit" case rather than how he's reacting to Pie's posts. If there's any indication he's scum from the way he's reacting to pie's posts, it's that it's easy to call Town Town and he knows this, and he's being pretty liberal with handing out the confTown statuses.

I think you could be scum because it looks like you're trying to discredit the player you said you didn't want to be Town in this game. You've stated that you feel Pie would be a threat to your scum game to the point that you would recruit him just so he wouldn't be Town. I can see you as scum wanting to try to shut him down early as scum if you did not or could not recruit him.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Nacho

I still have a gut scumlean on Gaiden, but the more I think about it the more confident I am in Nacho being scum.

[Alchemist21]

Nacho claimed his role already, and it doesnt look like a scum role though...


BUT! Recruited players have a role that is independent of their alignment! So scum can have a townie role! Hmm!

From what I understood of the rules, ALL roles were assigned separate from alignment. Plus, Kagami designs his games so that role =/= alignment anyway to prevent attempts of outguessing the mod.

We learned that the hard way in Micro 415 when farside had a role that A) allowed her alignement to be confirmed in a neighborhood by posting a specific phrase in the PT and B) prevented her from being neighborized. Since there was another role that could take one of the abilities, it was theoretically possible for her to get neighborized anyway, and a lot of us at one point or another assumed scum wouldn't have an ability to confirm their alignment in a PT, but she was scum anyway because roles were assigned seperate from alignment.

Seriously, go to the wiki and look up the STFU guidelines. They're Kagami's own methods for designing games to prevent outguessing the mod.

tl;dr Nobody is confTown just because they have a role that would be positive utility for Town and nobody is confscum for having a role that would be negative utility for Town.

[Alchemist21]

MS, what's your read on Nacho? You're coming off very wishy-washy towards him.

[Alchemist21]

Specifically, 196 and 197

this response is interesting.

Spoiler:

I did that. I didn't glean a lot from it, because it's pretty obviously one of the first games he played here. It's pretty jam-packed with newbie questions or questions intended to look newbie, which I agree is not the same situation as in this game.

Soren claims he has over 40 games completed. I don't think that's what he was going for there; I think he was just asking as much stuff as he could to look busy and not realizing nothing he was asking had any town motivation.

@Endless Possibilities: Do you think that Soren is typically pretty wishy-washy on his own opinions or generally easily led? Do you have experience of him as town in a completed game? I read this:

Mini 1650: Greatest Idea Mafia

and Soren seemed a lot more forceful in that as town. His questions were much more pointed toward alignment and less busy-seeming. I don't see much other meta, but if you have it, I'll read it.

mm, I looked through this and the first thing I noticed is that in that game, he wasn't following closely at the start of the game (he says this in 268). it's usually easier to step back and take a fully objective view of the game when you already have a body of work of content to go off of, as opposed to seeing everything unfold firsthand.

also in that game, his opening (and his play in general) hardly consisted of any questions, as opposed to him primarily commenting on stuff. it's possible he just took a different approach here, or is having an off game

there's also some other things that I think might be different but haven't looked into it yet: for example, it's possible a lot of people were acting obviously scummy/town in that game, compared to this game which is rather slow (with at least 3 people having practically no content at all). I suppose what I'm saying here is that I don't find a lack of strong scum reads scummy, given my 2nd strongest scum read is fucking Anti just for not doing anything at all besides one somewhat-off-looking push.

besides that, I don't have any experience with town Soren, but I think the differences from his ISO here to the ISO in his scum game are a lot greater than the differences from his ISOs here/this game. I usually don't agree with calling someone scum because of minor differences to their town game, in no small part because I used to (and still am, to some extent) be known for being extremely obvious town as town and I would have that pushed on me a lot whenever I did so much as one thing that was different from any of my town games. this is moreso my method of reading people so make of it what you will.

I didn't like this because Antihero hasn't actually posted much in this game. No one has explained their vote on him very well. His vote is on LucianRoy, whom Soren was voting earlier for "meta" reasons that apparently both of them now agree were not very strong. LucianRoy is clearly not immune to OMGUS since he is scumreading two people currently on his wagon and one who was; it seems a little out of place for him to resolutely resist the same OMGUS urge where Soren is concerned.

I'm still not particularly seeing why this is scummy, explicitly because Anti hasn't posted much. it makes sense to poke at a lurker in order to get them to do shit. there were better questions he could have asked, but I could easily enough see it coming from town.

LR had also declared a town read on me after I started pushing on him (although I never voted him) so I'm not sure what to make of the second point. either way, I don't really think it makes sense as a scum strategy to OMGUS every town player who pressures you, so I don't think it makes sense him not OMGUS'ing Soren would be indicative of Soren scum, either.

This was interesting because I was voting LucianRoy at the time. It's like Soren is only interested in asking questions among the people who were voting LucianRoy. Soren also says he just wanted to see what I would say -- again, not owning the suspicion that is pretty clear in the question imo.

It's not just the questions for me, though I watch for that more since Farside pointed out it is one of her scumhunting tools. (Yes, I shamelessly borrow from other players.) Soren hasn't had any strong views -- in fact, he sheeped me onto LucianRoy and then immediately backed off his own vote without unvoting.

IMO a lack of strong stances isn't particularly scummy. it's either indicative of scum who don't want to fake reads, or town who legitimately don't have any reads and don't see it fit to pretend like they have reads that they really don't. what I find scummy is when people act like they have strong stances, but then don't actually do anything to follow through with them (ex. Aris WK'ing a lot of people who are under pressure but not doing anything to explain why).

in Soren's case, I think it's plausible enough he just doesn't have any strong reads yet. he's either scum who made a push and then didn't feel like continuing with it, or he's town telling the truth about not having a strong read on you and backed off for exactly the reason he said - that he asked the question to see what you would say as opposed to feeling strongly you were scum. either way, I don't think it's inconsistent.

one thing that I noticed when I played with him as scum was that there were basically no stances *at all*, which is kind of similar. I suppose it's not too unreasonable he's stepped up his game as scum to some extent and is more capable of taking stances but is not yet comfortable faking the strong pushes he made in his town game. however, I still think there's more stuff that points to him being town.

^ this was a post FROM MY LATEST TOWN GAME WITH MS. he was in THIS HYDRA with me for this game.

his angle here is that he's paranoid of me bc I'm supposedly making long/effortful posts early in the game. this is blatantly disingenuous. while long posts are not a tell either way for me, he has directly seen that it's something I do as town and that I'm more than capable of walling early game if I want to elaborate on or deconstruct posts in depth.

so him thinking I might be scum for it doesn't make any sense. I think he's going for a fake paranoia angle here, as in he pretends to be paranoid of someone bc ppl will hopefully see it and think something along the lines of "look at that paranoia, so town".

I'm aware this is supposedly just paranoia, but regardless, it doesn't make sense from a town POV. he knows it's not a scum tell yet supposedly is pushing it as one anyway.

If there's any indication he's scum from the way he's reacting to pie's posts, it's that it's easy to call Town Town and he knows this, and he's being pretty liberal with handing out the confTown statuses.

except this isn't what he's doing. what he's doing is calling me town, but then going back and saying he's paranoid of me for supposedly making long posts. that isn't committing to a town read on me.

rather than an actual town reaction - such as deconstructing my posts and trying to show me why he's not scum (which in this case is something I think he should be particularly likely to do here bc we have a pretty long history with each other), or committing to a firm read on me either way - we're seeing him do the "fake paranoia and start second guessing myself" routine.

How often has MS seen you make long posts as Town? If that was the only time I could see him forgetting you could do that.

On the other hand, what he's doing with his Townread on you sounds like what he's doing with his Nacho read too.

On a scale of 1-10, how confident are you that

A) Nacho is Town?

B) MS is scum?

[Alchemist21]

pieguy why are you beginning to misrep me

Where is Pie beginning to misrep you? I don't see it at all.

Do know that I still prefer my Nacho vote, but I think pie makes some good points and I will lynch you if deadline requires it (which is 19 hours after I'm typing this post).

[Alchemist21]

I think you could be scum because it looks like you're trying to discredit the player you said you didn't want to be Town in this game. You've stated that you feel Pie would be a threat to your scum game to the point that you would recruit him just so he wouldn't be Town. I can see you as scum wanting to try to shut him down early as scum if you did not or could not recruit him.

I don't understand how I'm discrediting him.
I'm not saying that pie's scummy, or that pie isn't town.
I'm not calling her a bad player.
I'm not saying that her pushes this game don't make sense or are bad (I have followed her on her push for the entire game).

I'm saying that it doesn't make sense to call her posts fantastic and super good if you're the one who she is pushing because, if you were town, the direction she would be pushing the game is completely wrong.

I also don't understand how you could possibly make this push while pie is making the exact same argument than I am.

You called Pie's posts garbage. That's a discredit. Even if the conclusion is wrong, you can still appreciate the quality of a player's posts because being wrong =/= being mafia and being right =/= being Town. In open 591, I correctly started scumreading 2 players (1 SK, 1 Mafia) because even though they expressed Townreads on me, the Townreads didn't quite make sense. Even if someone's read is wrong, you can appreciate the fleshed out thought processs behind them acquiring their reads.

[Alchemist21]

Alchemist, Honey bee and gaiden, I would appreciate it if you guys switched over to Doduo, thanks.

I'm not really seeing scum in Doduo. He's early tunneling, sure, but plenty of Town do that. You yourself said Marquis is capable scum and a convincing actor. Do you think a capable scum player is just going to tunnel 1 player like the Doduo slot is doing? Even if Notscience did that, wouldn't Marquis try to make the slot come off as more fluid? I think the reality is that their slot is Town thinking they have scum for sure and want it dead.

[Alchemist21]

^ You need a care bear.

Also, where did Honey Bee go? I want their opinion on recent developments.

[Alchemist21]

i mean i guess i could
post a readslist

or something

but that would involve reading the thread in full again (assuming you want something taking recent stuff into account which is prob a given)

I couldn't catch you before you logged out apparantly.

If you come back, start reading at Page 13 and tell me what you think. That should be enough to give you a good handle on the recent events.

[Alchemist21]

i actually don't really want to say it but

i want a lia lynch significantly more than a ms lynch right now
and that's like
a lot

What is it about Lia that you don't like?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: lia

And why the hell are you so happy to sheep Doduo when you're so sure he's scum?

VOTE: Metal Sonic

[Alchemist21]

Oh wait, I missed the "thanks for obvtowning post"

VOTE: Nacho

Why is Doduo obvTowning for you though?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Nacho

i still have no idea where this comes from

his claim is confirmable and forced to be put to town's benefit and should be enough to put him to the side for now

I really don't care what the role is. If I think a player is scum, I'm going to vote them. If he's Town then we can benefit from his lynch by him self-hammering anyway. If he gets to L-2, then the next person should declare intent to put him at L-1 and wait for Nacho to be online at the same time before voting so scum don't quickhammer.

[Alchemist21]

I saw it. I just don't believe it.

[Alchemist21]

I really want to vote Nacho right now.

I don't even know if it's out of spite or if what I'm seeing is actually something real.

Is that because of the argument vs agreement thing? To be fair it is easy to read through and mistake one for the other.

[Alchemist21]

If you have other reasons though, I would love your support on this wagon.

[Alchemist21]

^That makes it L-2.

If anyone wants to put him to L-1, try to do it when Nacho's online and can self-hammer.

There are only 5 hours left though so don't wait on him too long.

[Alchemist21]

Let's say give Nacho until 2 - 1.5 hours left in the deadline.

Good night, everyone.

[Alchemist21]

@Lia, why do you think Doduo is scum?

[Alchemist21]

@Lia, I've seen hydra heads refuse to sign as Town before. It's annoying, but I don't take that as alignment indicative, especially when a hydra could try earning easy Town cred by being cooperative and start signing posts. I also Townread their D1 tunnel vision on MS, because I consider tuneeling to be more likely coming from Town.

[Alchemist21]

I'm not sure how I feel about Gaiden anymore. He actually hadn't matched the pattern I've observed before in his scum meta and now he's gone back to his usual lurky self apparantly, but I think he's aware of his scum meta and I don't know how willing or capable he is of manipulating it.

I have a good reason for not wanting Nacho's head on a platter anymore.

P.S. @Nacho, in hindsight I realize I misinterpreted your post where you said Pie's posts were garbage.

[Alchemist21]

I don't agree with Lia about Doduo, but I can see her points as coming from Town. I feel like both these wagons are on Town.

VOTE: Gaiden

He's feeling off again. He's a lurker. He knows it and everyone who's played with him knows it. Why would he feel the need to apologize for not posting over the weekend? I'm not really a fan with his jump onto Lia either, but that's probably more null for Gaiden.

[Alchemist21]

Massclaim's fine by me.

@Gaiden, what's the point of claiming home chapter if we don't character claim? I don't see what use we'd get out of it.

[Alchemist21]

Oh right. Forgot that it tells us who's home chapter it is each phase.

[Alchemist21]

apparently no one reads the night start posts...

Full Claim: I can choose the phase chapter. So i can choose which player can't be player targeted by abilities. unfortunately, i can only choose each chapter once so the chapters we've seen can't be selected again.
So i have a mini-doc type ability right now.
so if we claim home chapter then i can kinda save someone, maybe.

Nobody would have figured this out just from reading the phase starts.

[Alchemist21]

Oh. I see now.

[Alchemist21]

I'm a neighborizer, and chapter 3 is my home chapter.

[Alchemist21]

It looks like eveyone's agreed to the massclaim but so far we only have 2 claims. Do we need to open a bag of popcorn?

I do have a bit of info that I thought was relatively useless at first, but now that I've had time to think on the game it could actually be useful.

Popcorn: Lia

You said your claim could help so let's start with you.

[Alchemist21]

Here's the deal.

I know there's a roleblocker in the game because I received a night phase report. The report also told me their flavor name, so if I were scum then I or my partner could just kill them tonight without incident.

What I

don't

know is who it is or why, and that's the part I think could be telling. Given how roleblocking worked in Micro 415, I'd wager that the roleblocker knows their target gets informed of being roleblocked, and if that player is someone who's been claiming a Townread on me, I'll know they're probably scum.

[Alchemist21]

So again Lia, claim.

[Alchemist21]

Pie and Bee.

[Alchemist21]

Never mind the claim, Lia, I'm dumb.

I forgot about the list of home chapters in the OP. I know it's Pie who roleblocked me now.

[Alchemist21]

@Pie, why did you roleblock me?

[Alchemist21]

EBWOP: ninja'd

[Alchemist21]

That all makes sense.

So we have 2 scum in Lia/Bee/Doduo, and I think the most likely pair there is Lia/Bee based on yesterday's wagons.

[Alchemist21]

It doesn't all make sense to me.

What I don't know is who it is or why, and that's the part I think could be telling. Given how roleblocking worked in Micro 415, I'd wager that the roleblocker knows their target gets informed of being roleblocked, and if that player is someone who's been claiming a Townread on me, I'll know they're probably scum.

You say this, then when you realise it was Pie that did the blocking you change your tune. Why? Also, is your neighbourising permanent or temporary?

@ Pie: Why would you want to prevent Alch using his neighbourise on day 3?

Pie's explanation made sense. I had actually expected the roleblocker to be outside the neighborhood since it could be reasonably assumed by a player in the neighborhood that I had no night actions, and that a roleblocker wouldn't waste a use on me if they thought I had no night actions.

[Alchemist21]

Who would Doduo's partner be?

[Alchemist21]

I'm seeing inconsistencies there with part of my role but it may be they weren't intended to be consistent in the first place. I will claim after Doduo but not before them. Honey bee's 624 feels town so I'm happy to let her decide whether to claim after we've done so.

I think the only one I'd be prepared to lynch at the moment would be Doduo. Marquis has posted more than 20 times elsewhere since Doduo's last post here, including several long posts, so I'm suspicious of why they're choosing not to give priority to a game so close to deadline.

Marquis has said their role is useless but I still want to see their claim. I would have preferred for them to go first but as it's only 3 hours to deadline I'm not going to wait any longer to claim, for what it's worth.

I'm a tracker that hasn't been able to track anyone yet due to certain conditions.

What are these inconsistencies?

[Alchemist21]

I'm not going to wait forever. This is lylo and I don't want the lynch to become a deadline scramble.

[Alchemist21]

Nope. Not a word was said by any of us last night. Lol.

I sill be kinda pissed with myse,f if the scumteam is Pie/Honey Bee.

[Alchemist21]

OMG Honey Pie! That name would be so fucking awesome for a scumteam!

But I'm not strongly leaning towards Pie being scum.

[Alchemist21]

honey bee/Doduo is the only scum team I've been able to rule out so far. I haven't seen Bee's push on Doduo throughout the game as a bus; I also don't really know if Bee suddenly claims yesterday he doesn't want to lynch Doduo for *magical reasons* after bussing them the majority of the game if they were partners.

I'd like to see if Alch has reasons for Bee being scum based on play. I don't really agree the way the wagons were D2 makes Bee/Lia scum (Bee was on Doduo before the Lia wagon happened, so it doesn't make sense it was intended as a counterwagon; he pointed this out in the neighbor PT a while back and I think it's correct) and I haven't seen much in Bee's play pointing to him being scum.

Doduo/Lia need to claim ASAP.

I'll go back through and reassess Bee's posts when I get time, but mostly it's a case of PoE. I really don't think it was to scum's benefit to bus yesterday so I don't think any scum were voting for the other EoD yesterday, so the way I see it, the only possible teams are Lia/Bee, Pie/Bee, or Doduo/Pie. Your play this game has been highly Town, particularly with helping me try to read Nacho better and your explanation for the roleblock. My faith that you're Town is why I neighborized you first and why I'd kick myself if you really are scum, but I just don't see that being the case. Ruling out Pie as scum narrows ot down to just one possible team for me, and I'm pretty confident that that's the scumteam.

[Alchemist21]

How ling will deadline be extended?

[Alchemist21]

Going through Honey Bee's posts, I only see developed stances on 2 players (MS and Doduo). Their behavior isn't indicative of scum, but it's not indiciative of Town either.

Lol..

I think we should lynch today. No lynching is going to just remove gaiden from the equation(maybe?). Though idk if we can actually come up with a hniformed decision in time.

I don't think i want to lynch marquis today because of *reasons*. Nice to see you again tho :p

What are these *reasons*? We're in lylo now so there's no point holding back, especially after having a more developed scumread earlier on them in the game. The question also applies to whomever replaces Honey Bee if/when that happens. Since there was a sudden read change, I'm guessing the reason is role-related and will be available to the replacement.

[Alchemist21]

game mechanics and gamebreaking aren't were my mafia strengths lie, so I'd like for one of you - Pieguy? - to walk me through why nolynch seemed like a good idea yesterday. I'm going to catch up on this game day and then read the neighborhood and see if any of this changes my thoughts about this game.

I'm pretty sure there was no reason. it happened bc everyone was too inactive to decide on an informed lynch until it was too late.

I still think alchemist and Lia are most likely scum.

this is where I'm at as well.

the only question mark I really have is why Alch wouldn't have just voted Doduo instead of Gaiden D2 if saving Lia was his goal. but, I've seen weirder shit than that (sthar in 13p).

At the time I thought Lia and Doduo were Town. I missed deadline so I didn't have a vote anywhere, but if I were trying to save a scumbuddy from a serious wagon, I'd have voted elsewhere a lot earlier.

[Alchemist21]

@Lia, I've seen hydra heads refuse to sign as Town before. It's annoying, but I don't take that as alignment indicative, especially when a hydra could try earning easy Town cred by being cooperative and start signing posts. I also Townread their D1 tunnel vision on MS, because I consider tuneeling to be more likely coming from Town.

I don't recall making any statement about newness, and this is the closes post of mine I found that could even be taken that way.

[Alchemist21]

To try and get a sense for their alignment by interacting with them. If you read back through the neighborhood you'll see where I said why.

[Alchemist21]

you initially asked for a reads list on May 29. Then on June 1 you wanted honeybee and Pieguyn to 1v1 in the PT, despite the fact they said they were townreading each other.

That seems like an odd request to me.

Because by that time I was certain 1 of them was scum, even if the Town among them didn't think so. There's nothing odd about asking 2 players in a neighborhood to start interacting more. Isn't that kinda the point of a neighborhood?

[Alchemist21]

I was Townreading him. I generally aim for Townreads as a neighborizer. Bee was an exception.

And yes, having them interact in the neighborhood was

specifically

to remove it from the game thread until I could get a conclusion to share with the rest of the players. I didn't want the conversation to get tainted by people interjecting during their conversation.

Are you going anywhere with these questions? I don't see you getting anything useful from them other than trying to look busy.

[Alchemist21]

Yesterday was MYLO. I think 1 person said they wanted a lynch yesterday, but MYLO usually ends in a No Lynch.

[Alchemist21]

Mostly I'm just trying to understand where your head was at and if I could see town mindset in the choices you made and how your reads evolved. I need to go back through the game and get more of a feel for chronology - when reads developed and if possible why.

But, I'm also kinda in a holding pattern hecause I want doduo to clarify his claim.

You need to reread then because I'm pretty sure I explained every action I made when I made them, either here or in the neighborhood.

[Alchemist21]

Mostly I'm just trying to understand where your head was at and if I could see town mindset in the choices you made and how your reads evolved. I need to go back through the game and get more of a feel for chronology - when reads developed and if possible why.

But, I'm also kinda in a holding pattern hecause I want doduo to clarify his claim.

You need to reread then because I'm pretty sure I explained every action I made when I made them, either here or in the neighborhood.

You're not the only player in the game

, and merging 2 threads' chronology is non-trivial.

And whether you laid down trajectory or not, I still have to think about the mindset behind those actions and stances.

Funny, since I'm the only one you're questioning. Nothing for Lia or Pie? (I'll let Doduo slide because where the fuck are they?)

[Alchemist21]

So you did. Still feels like you're just asking me fluff for fluff's sake.

[Alchemist21]

I can't wait for Doduo anymore. I have lmited access on weekends and deadline is on Sunday. Something needs to happen today and at this point I' still comfortable with my reads in ffery and Lia.

[Alchemist21]

Also, alchemist, do you have thoughts on who would have been lynched on day 3 if doduo had been around or if there'd been more will to do *something*?

I don't know who would have been lynched. Possibly me because I think Pie, Bee, and Lia? were all suspecting me at the time. I'm not 100% on that though.

[Alchemist21]

I don't understand Doduo's role. Why would we need a rolecop for dead slots?

[Alchemist21]

I Townread Doduo's tunnel on MS. Nothing they've done has changed that for me.

I have to leave now and I'm still comfortable with where I'm at.

VOTE: Lia

I'm betting the game on Lia/Bee. Apologies in advance if I'm wrong.

[Alchemist21]

Whoops. I'm sorry Lia and everyone else.

As for the mechanics, I wouldn't mind another game with a recruitment mechanic. Random chapters wasn't great though.