Micro 475: Instant Lylo Mafia!

[KittenLicks]

Hi everyone! How are you all doing? :3

This game feels kinda weird to me. Half of the people I'm going to interact with are guaranteed scum? :S Scary thought.

[KittenLicks]

^^ Never live till lylo before?

Only once. But in that game I had 2 people I was 100% sure were scum, so I could safely ignore them and listen to my fellow townies.

I mean, I was wrong that time anyway, but it was still a very different situation.

[KittenLicks]

Hmm, I guess i see what u mean. But i don't think that cat's post was a towntell. I could totally see cat doing that as scum.

Quick question, is 'cat' referring to me?

I do not support an SW town read, I'm actually leaning more on a slight scumread.

All I know for sure is I'm town and I think kittenlicks might be and if I can figure out the third, I've got it made here. Brantz needs to post.

I have posted 2 posts and that is enough information for you to write me off as town? This feels more like an early attempt to pocket a bad/new player than anything. Also, you went from "slightly townish" to "knowing I am town" without me actually posting anything inbetween. o.O If I was scum I'm sure I could fake town in

2 posts.

Enomis' reaction to SW's insta-read seemed towny to me.

@Jeanne Why do you townread SW?

@BRantz How was the wedding? :3
Also, what do you think of SW?

[KittenLicks]

In all honesty, I think I mixed you up with Jeanne when I made that "knowing they are town" quote. It was them that said:

@SW Well, the only thing I can say for sure is that you [SW] are town and that I am town.

My apologies.

What I meant by "insta-read" was what you said about wanting to find the third town player, implying you had 2 already. I know nothing of you either, but if you can honestly solve the game that quickly I'd be very surprised.

Are you trying to lynch me already based on that?

Not at all. I'm not trying to lynch anyone as of yet. I'd be a bit of a hypocrite if I said you were insta-reading people then replied with an insta-scumread on you.

And again, I'm not trying to request anyone scumread anyone else. I'm merely asking Jeanne to explain their read and trying to get BRantz to participate.

I'm glad you responded like that, now I just need to figure out if it was a town or scum response.
SW: Are you usually townread or scumread by others early in the game?

[KittenLicks]

@Kitten: What are your thoughts on players besides SW?

Enomis I read as town, their thoughts on SW are the exact same thoughts I had, which come from a town perspective. Jeanne is either lurker-town or lurker scum that knows we cannot afford to policy-lynch a lurker. Hard to read that. You, Brantz, I'm fairly iffy on for various reasons.

Scum teams I can see:

SW-Brantz or SW-Jeanne
If SW is town it would have to be either Enomis-Jeanne or Brantz-Jeanne, neither of which sit well with me. Neither does Enomis-Brantz.

The fact that both of you are asking me self meta questions is another sign you are possibly communicating with each other.

Imagine a situation where both Enomis and I are scum and have daytalk. Your are implying that we went into our daychat thread and decided we should both question you about slightly different parts of your meta. How does that help us?

I asked you a meta question because I want to know how to read your reaction to a simple scum-lean. I was a little torn between 'outraged at being called scum because you are town' and 'panicked because you are scum'. That was why I asked you if you are usually scumread early game, thinking that if you are usually townread it may explain your overdefensiveness at being scumread for a change. I don't know whether that answer is true or not, but you gave the answer that not only didn't explain your overdefensiveness but also conveniently explained why you were getting scumread.

Enomis asked a similar question, though less subtly, which is why I felt it came from a similar mindset.

It is still possible you are town though, so I'll ask you directly, SW, why did you get so overdefensive from a simple scum-lean?

I do not support an SW town read, I'm actually leaning more on a slight scumread.

[KittenLicks]

Wow, Silver... I'm sorry, I didn't mean to scare you away from the game. o.o

If you are scum faking that, whatever, but I genuinely feel really awful that I've discouraged you from continuing.

I don't care for this set-up. It's very scum-sided because they have daytalk and we have zero info. to go on and dumb town is throwing the game or smart scum is taking advantage of lurk town is going to frustrate me to now end.

Mathematically it is fair, seeing as if you are town you have a 50% chance of voting correctly. Though even if you do it is then another 50% chance for the rest of town to choose to vote for the other person over you. Honestly, my heart's now just not in the game anymore, and I'd take that 50% chance right now if it wouldn't be hugely disrespectful to the mod and the rest of you that want to play.

How long have you been playing mafia?

This is my first/second game outside of two newbies, though I've been playing on EpicMafia and other chat-mafia places for much longer.

Are you scum?

No. I'm also a little hurt that you called me dumb-town and I don't usually approve of name-calling of other players.

Meh, you listed BRantz Jeanne I guess. I'm very tired and missed that. Why on Earth doesn't that sit well with you? You don't think scum is going to lurk this one out for the win?

If Jeanne is scum they are a wildcard that could be with anyone, seeing as they are lurking. I cannot read their lurking either way. Brantz is my second scumread, which was why I suggested a you-Brantz pairing. Enomis is my most town read. Brantz-Jeanne doesn't sit well with me simply because it is a wildcard paired with my second highest scumread. It is definitely possible and I did consider it, but I felt that you and Brantz was more likely.

Nobody is cleared. Nobody is confirmed. We are on like day 3 or something, the game is far from over and I don't pretend to have solved it. The way you are speaking makes it sound like you are about to be lynched.

The fact that you aren't even really looking at BRantz or Jeanne is insane to me.

We are 3 days in. Can I not look at one person at a time?

I want some town players I can work with here, not ones who think defensiveness is a scum indicator.

I apologize for not being a town player you can work with. If you are town and honestly believe I am that awful of a player, I would be willing to replace out.

[KittenLicks]

I think if one of more people lurk and don't post, town isn't going to win. That's another reason I don't feel like putting much effort in here.

Well, yeah, I mean, if a single townie does not vote we auto-lose.

KittenLicks-Explain your scumread on BRantz. Is it PoE or something else? I'm null on him and Jeanne completely.

It was PoE combined with their townread on you, making me think you could be partners. It was a bit more likely than You-Jeanne anyway.

I'm back to square one now though, pretty sure you are town. If you are scum and faked that frustration I'd really see it as incredibly underhanded.

Just a random side note:
If Jeanne is scum I feel bad for Brantz/Enomis. Daytalk must be absolutely barren.

[KittenLicks]

you seemed pretty sure of Wolf town due to that blowup. Have you never seen scum blow up and ATE before? Did you meta him already?

I don't think it is likely SW is scum. I have looked into one of

her

previous games as Town, but not a scum game, and found it fairly consistent to her play here. I don't see SW doing that as scum though.

@SW Brantz I'm reading as pretty town now that they are posting more. It is definitely a viable possibility that Enomis is scum trying to force scumreads on you and I have no idea about Jeanne of course, but by PoE they are with Enomis.

Also, sorry guys, things have been busy lately. I'll try to be on more often from now on.

[KittenLicks]

OMG KIttenLicks-I am so sorry. Here I am bitching at people for calling me he and I've been calling you she. Oops, you guys are all he but me and Jeanne. LOL

Oh, don't be sorry, I don't really mind what pronoun people use when referring to me. Call me he/she/it/they, whatever. If it bothered me I would have pointed it out. <3 I only bolded the word "her" because everyone seems to be getting your gender wrong even after you pointed it out thrice, for some strange reason.

[KittenLicks]

@Enomis I don't have time to give it more than a quick lookover right now, but here is one:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=24413

[KittenLicks]

@Enomis No, actually. Her town game was just the first one I found.

@Brantz What do you hope to glean from the answer to that question?

[KittenLicks]

Why would you stop once you found a town game though? Why would you not look for a scum game to see the differences?

I did. 4 posts later.

you seemed pretty sure of Wolf town due to that blowup. Have you never seen scum blow up and ATE before? Did you meta him already?

I don't think it is likely SW is scum. I have looked into one of

her

previous games as Town, but not a scum game, and found it fairly consistent to her play here. I don't see SW doing that as scum though.

@SW Brantz I'm reading as pretty town now that they are posting more. It is definitely a viable possibility that Enomis is scum trying to force scumreads on you and I have no idea about Jeanne of course, but by PoE they are with Enomis.

Also, sorry guys, things have been busy lately. I'll try to be on more often from now on.

@Enomis I don't have time to give it more than a quick lookover right now, but here is one:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=24413

Could you answer my question, please?

[KittenLicks]

@kitten:

Then what have you gleamed from it after looking at both his scum and town games. Do your SW act the same as he does in his town games still holds?

I'm not very good at meta-ing people, due to having no experience with it, but activity-wise I think SW is a lot more active this game than I would expect from her as scum based on that scum game.

In all honesty I'm fighting apathy here and I'm really having trouble reading people this game. My reads on people keep swinging back and forth and I honestly don't know anymore. I really hope SW is town, because I don't think I can bring myself to consider that her blow-up earlier was faked.

Enomis and Brantz I'm jumping back and forward on at this point. I really need some time to look over each of their posts and give them some deep thought. Time which I just don't seem to have these days. Maybe I'll find an hour to lock myself in a dark room or something at some point this week and figure this game out.

Welcome, Droog. You have an interesting posting style.
If you are town I hope you can help me sort this mess out and if you are scum I hope you are easy to read.

[KittenLicks]

so its vintually impossible
to scumread somone
with a kitten avatar
hi

Too friendly. Too much trying to get him on your side. Don't like.

This has little to do with the game, but the day being friendly becomes something that should be avoided is the day I stop playing Mafia.

I am reading Droog as town though, but very very warily. They seem a much more experienced player than me, and I have no idea what them faking town would look like if I saw it.

I am also discounting the possibility of SW/Enomis.
So I'm going to use some logic.

If Droog is town:

• If SW is town
  • Brantz and Enomis are scum
  
  
• If SW is scum:
  • Brantz is scum.

If Droog is scum:

• If SW is town:
  
  • Brantz or Enomis could be scum
  
  
• If SW is scum:
  
  • Droog and SW is scum

This leads to a great conclusion that simplifies the game for me a hell of a lot.

IF Droog is town AND SW and Enomis are not the scum team
THEN Brantz is scum.

Two questions to be answered.
Is Droog town?
Could SW and Enomis both be scum?

If I can answer these two questions correctly, I have solved the game, I think.
For now:

FOS: Brantz

Cause the only way they are town is if Enomis/SW is the scumteam or if Droog is scum.

[KittenLicks]

That post by Kitten says nothing. It is a wall of words that says absolutely nothing. There is no trying to figure out the game there SW. Don't be blinded by it.

FoS: Kitten

I am here droog, whats up?

Well, the words don't say anything by themselves, no. You have to read them. Such is the nature of text.

Judging by this post I'd say you seem pretty set on the idea that

A)SW is town, seeing as you are appealing to her to scumread me.
B) I'm scum. I'd call this OMGUS but I can sort of see the build up to it, though you never voiced it before this post and I cannot for the life of me see the reason for it.

From your point of view:
You are town.
SW is town.
I'm scum.
Enomis or Droog is scum. You are town reading Enomis, so I assume you are saying the scumteam is Droog and I?

I'm really enjoying this new logical approach to the game, so I think I'll do some more thinking.

If I assume Droog is town and we lynch Brantz:
Two situations where town loses:
SW is scum with Droog.
Enomis is scum with Droog.

I'm not considering SW/Droog as a real possibility, because there is no way I'm going to correctly read you both if you are scum. I cannot even rule out a scumteam with you both in it based on those interactions when Droog entered, because Droog was the one that brought up the FoS'ing thing and would know to hide the associative tells.

Hm, that's interesting. Why would Droog bring up the FoSing as scum? Obviously to hide connections between himself and his partner and encourage others to rule out those connections. If he is scum, the first player he chose to do that with was SW. Which means I cannot altogether rule out the possibility that they are scum together. Which sucks.

Well, for now I guess I'll say:
If Droog is scum, SW likely is. This isn't helpful at all.
If SW is scum, Enomis probably isn't, and vice versa.

I'm fairly happy with my townreads on SW and Droog though, tbh. SW could be scum, but if so it is with Brantz so that doesn't matter anyway.

[KittenLicks]

Hey. Sorry about being inactive.

@Kitten:

That whole logical argument of your makes no sense to me.

Well, which one? I've posted two now. And er, I'm sorry they don't make sense to you? It's logic. If you disagree it would be great if you could point out the flaw in it (whichever argument you are referring to)?

And You havent answered my question:
Your SW townread came from her playing the same as her previous town games.
So, how did your conclusion changed/ why did it not change after reading her scum games.

Please answer this. Because this really seems like a lazy effort to just townread SW because

she

doesn't seem to be a popular lynch.

Also, why is droog town? I can't seem to get anything from the conversation btw him and SW.

My SW townread originally came from her 'blow-up', which struck me as town. Her meta didn't have much to do with it at all, but I don't see any reason to scumread her based off of her meta.

I am not decided on either of SW or Droog being town yet. In the post I made minutes ago I considered the possibilities of either of them being scum, or both of them. I am happy with a townread on Droog because he seems town. He is actively trying to interact with others and solve the game. Same with SW. I am not decided on those reads. If I knew 100% Droog and SW were town I'd just vote for you or Brantz, because you would be confirmed scum.

Enomis, assume I am scum. Judging by how I am 'using a lazy method to just townread SW because (s)he isn't an easy lynch' I suppose I'm not scum with her. Am I scum with Droog or Brantz? Keeping in mind that Brantz seems to think I'm scum with Droog.

[KittenLicks]

Also enomis, droog asked you some questions which you ignored. You clearly aren't reading the game and going from tunnel to tunnel.

I'm actually pretty good with enomis as scum and I'd go along with a vote on him if town wanted to go that way.

Enomis might be scum. I see no reason to lynch them when Brantz is a much better lynch though.

@Brantz

If you were scum, who would your partner be?

[KittenLicks]

@Brantz

If you were scum, who would your partner be?

If you are going to disappear, please answer my question first?

[KittenLicks]

@Brantz

If you were scum, who would your partner be?

If you are going to disappear, please answer my question first?

What is the point of this question? Do you think anyone is going to tell you who they are likely scum with, especially if they are scum? What will this tell you exactly?

No. I am about 90% sure that if Brantz was scum the name he gives me would not be his partner. Is that not a very valuable piece of information to you?

[KittenLicks]

@Brantz

If you were scum, who would your partner be?

If you are going to disappear, please answer my question first?

What is the point of this question? Do you think anyone is going to tell you who they are likely scum with, especially if they are scum? What will this tell you exactly?

No. I am about 90% sure that if Brantz was scum the name he gives me would not be his partner. Is that not a very valuable piece of information to you?

I have to tell you, if I was scum and you asked me that question, I wouldn't answer it at all.

Hey, SW, if you were scum who would your partner be? <3

[KittenLicks]

hm
im scared
sw
are you scum with droog?

[KittenLicks]

I have nothing more to say, really. I can't shake the feeling that SW or Droog or both could be part of the scum team. Obviously at this point there is no point pursuing that, so if either of you are, gg.

Droog cannot be with Brantz, unless he is planning to unearth some crucial evidence at the last second to force a change to SW because Enomis won't vote Brantz.

If SW is scum it isn't with Brantz, she iiterally has nobody else to change her mind to that I can see, except maybe Enomis.

If Brantz is town, then Enomis is scum with SW. Unlikely, but the only other possibility is Droog/SW or Droog/Enomis.

SW, earlier you didn't mention Droog/Enomis, why is that pairing impossible?

Urgh, Droog/SW is bugging me so much, but it's just too late now and Eno/Brantz is far more likely.

Also, am I the only one wary about leaving the deadline to the last day? If one of us isn't on we will autolose. I kinda don't want to lose this game cause someone wanted to sleep in or something dumb. :p

@Mod

Will there be prods issued on the last day?

[KittenLicks]

I think you are townreading Kitten too easily compared to anyone else but there isn't much I can do about it if you two are the scumteam.

I don't even think BRantz will be around to vote. I'm kind of disappointed that people signed up for a game that required participation to play and decided not to participate.

On the other hand, I'm here, you are here and Droog is here. All the game comes down to at this point is the question "Are we all town?"
We don't need anyone else here to answer that anyway, unless one of you two are scum with Brantz and want to make some last second votechange for the win.

Droog, I've been feeling like you have been pocketing me all game, which only furthers my fears about you and SW being the scumteam. I mean, there is literally not a thing I can do at this point, but I'm getting more and more sure as we approach deadline. :/ Shall I just vote? How long do we have? I'd rather lose this to a SW/Droog scumteam than to a nolynch.

[KittenLicks]

How much time do we actually have?

[KittenLicks]

Brantz is the safer choice of the two.

Can't shake SW/Droog or SW/Enomis. T_T

Shall I just drop my vote on Brantz, then if you two are the scum team you quickly win? Nothing is going to change before deadline in terms of who I am willing to vote for.

[KittenLicks]

Okay, well, I'm not sure how conclusive that is with two people not here, SW.

At the very least, it is not Droog and I.

I guess we can wait for everyone to show up and not quickhammer and conclude that one of SW or Brantz is scum?

[KittenLicks]

It shows me that you and droog are not the scumteam which is exactly what I needed to see.

That's all well and good for you if you are town. It tells me nothing. T_T

[KittenLicks]

I could vote Brantz and see if Droog quickhammers, if you wanna play Russian roulette again. ;D

It is much safer to just wait for people to come around, tbh, but it's not like anything is going to change before tomorrow anyway.

[KittenLicks]

Well, I think the only thing more waiting is going to accomplish is bringing about the chance that I miss deadline. Is everyone okay if I vote Brantz now? The chance that it is Droog/SW will always be there and I don't think anything but a flip is going to alleviate it.

[KittenLicks]

Well, I'm gonna try to look on the bright side then. It's either Sw/Droog or Brantz/Enomis.

If it is Brantz/Enomis, we win.
If it is Sw/Droog, which I still can't shake the feeling that it is, at least I get a long mafchat to read, right?

For better or for worse:
VOTE: Brantz

If you're scum, feel free to hammer that for your win, droog.
If you're town, feel free to hammer it too, actually, cause it's still the best vote. Just be sure to tell me which you are doing.

Even with the ups and downs, it's been a fun 9 days or so, guys (and SW :p). Good game.

[KittenLicks]

VOTE: BRantz

Just in case Droog is scum and worries it is a fake-vote cause of the absence of the uppercase or something. ^^

[KittenLicks]

Can't shake the feeling I just threw the game out the window. :S

Someone tell me I did the right thing. Even if it is a lie.

[KittenLicks]

i dont want o be scum with you anymore sw

Damnit

Damnit.

I'm going to sleep. -___-

[KittenLicks]

Droog/Enomis, seriously? -___-

I even had the option of switching to that earlier but I thought Brantz was safer. Urgh.

What's the mafiachat look like? You replaced a lurker and Enomis was lurking the last half of the game. Completely barren?

[KittenLicks]

Well, I guess that's that, then? Good game, all.

When the mod arrives and you endgame us make it quick and painless please. <3