512: Bojack Horseman Season 2 (Over)

[Polar Vortex]

This is the SnowStorm + Bearbert D hydra.

Confirm.

[Polar Vortex]

Confirm the other head if needed

[Polar Vortex]

VOTE: Sekai no ki
Let's see who the best hydra is!

[Polar Vortex]

I don't really understand the fuss about 22. Seems fine and the same reaction I got from firebringer


-Bearbert head

[Polar Vortex]

Firebringer, how many themed games have you completed?

I'm feeling ETL's overreaction to Wisdom scummy. Initially found it town, but the way he continued with it doesn't seem genuine IMO

-Bearbert head

[Polar Vortex]

Firebringer, how many themed games have you completed?

I'm feeling ETL's overreaction to Wisdom scummy. Initially found it town, but the way he continued with it doesn't seem genuine IMO

-Bearbert head

have you played with ETL before?

does your other head have an opinion?

I have one game played on this site and no, not with ETL. I'm currently waiting for the Snowstorm opinion on ETL and Firebringer so no, I have no clue what he thinks

[Polar Vortex]

wanna vote her?

Not especially, don't think wagoning her would give us more info. We've seen the reactions we need. More votes would mean more of the same.

Would rather wagon

VOTE: Firebringer

[Polar Vortex]

inb4 Wisdom and ETL are scum team

I'm actually thinking this is a legit possibility. The interaction really doesn't make sense to me. And it does ping as bussing imho

-Bearbert head

[Polar Vortex]

Firebringer, how many themed games have you completed?

I'm feeling ETL's overreaction to Wisdom scummy. Initially found it town, but the way he continued with it doesn't seem genuine IMO

-Bearbert head

have you played with ETL before?

does your other head have an opinion?

I don't think ETL's reaction is scummy. I'm actually more worried about Wisdom because I don't understand what he's aiming at with this push.

[Polar Vortex]

There are other prominent characters who've been in a famous 90' TV show.

[Polar Vortex]

Kaboose, are you familiar with the flavor?

[Polar Vortex]

I found ESL scummy, but thought Firebringer was scummier. Like I thought he was softclaiming some flavour to appear town(like he'd think we'd assume Bojack would be a town person. I didn't get the reference at that point, but thought it was obvious he was softclaiming a character) and also somehow fishing for roles like Kaboose was saying. I also don't like 78 which looks to me like a "look at how I don't care about these votes" type of post which scum sometimes do

I'll also trust Snowstorm's opinion on ESL. I was waiting for it before going that way and he seems cool with her play+at this point wagoning would be more to get a reaction and judging from her interaction with Wisdom, I don't think her reaction would lead us to get a better read on her.

-Bearbert head

[Polar Vortex]

I was not making a soft claim I was referring to intro song to show. >.>

Ok, got that. Cool
UNVOTE:

[Polar Vortex]

Please no, quoting stuff like that deliberately seems rude
-Bear head

[Polar Vortex]

The game should be started again I think. Even if it's not true we won't be able to judge things without thinking about it. I'm not even sure what happened but still.

For people, I've been playing with Snowstorm for three years now and I basically signed up for mafiascum for the hydra:P

[Polar Vortex]

VOTE: Sekai no ki
Let's see who the best hydra is!

How did you two meet/ decide to hydra?

I'm glad someone finally asked! It was pretty romantic. I first met Bearbert when I was seventeen years old. I was taking the bus to meet my father at his work - he was taking me to buy my first car. While I was standing at the bus stop just up the hill from an intersection, I noticed this guy watching me from the corner at the bottom of the hill. It made me smile at first, and then a little uncomfortable. Then he started walking across the intersection towards the other side of the street - but the whole time he was walking he kept looking back at me and smiling. I thought it was kind of cute - although he didn't typically look like the type of guy that I was attracted to. He had long black hair past his shoulders, a torn black leather jacket, and had a 3-day growth on his beard. When he got to the opposite corner of the intersection, he just leaned against the building and watched me - flirting with me with the sexy look in his eyes and his sweet little grin. I couldn't help but smile back and at the same time. I kept thinking to myself "what a silly guy for standing there and staring at me like that!" Well then, he started walking back across the intersection to the same side of the street as I was on! I kept thinking "Oh my god! Why is he coming back over here! Where is my bus! Oh my god, why did I smile at him!" Needless to say - my bus didn't get to me before he did. We talked briefly, small talk about where I was going, etc. And then he asked if he could call me and we could go out sometime. I don't know what possessed me to give him my telephone number - it was so out of my character to give my number to a guy I didn't even know at all. Looking back I believe it was some type of fate - like we made a connection without really understanding it at the time. Anyways, my bus came along and he went his way, and I went to buy my car. Within a couple of days he called and we made plans to go for coffee. I had my car then, and so I was to pick him up at his brother's home where he was living at the time, and we would go out from there. The date was set. Unfortunately, there was a mix up in the address he gave me. I spent an hour and a half trying to find the address on 10th Street that I later found out was actually on 10th Avenue! Thinking that I had been stood up, I decided to go back home and forget about persuing this date. And since I didn't have his number, there wasn't much I could do anyways. I carried on with my friends as usual - going out, meeting lots of new people, and having fun.

FOUR MONTHS LATER..........I get this phone call, from a guy, and the first thing he says is "guess who this is?" Well, during the past four months I had met a lot of new people, and a lot of guys, so I started naming all of the guys that I could think of. By the time I named the fifth or sixth guy I knew, he interrupted by saying "maybe it wasn't such a good idea that I called". He finally tells me that he's the guy that I met at the
bus stop, and asks me why I stood him up on our date! (To this day we still disagree as to whose mistake this really was.) By this time he had his own place and we did get together for coffee. In only 2 short weeks we had fallen so deeply in love with each that it scared the both of us - especially since we were both still quite young. Within 3 months he asked me to hydra with him - and after 9 months I finally said "yes".

TLDR:

What he said in #182, but I like my version better.

[Polar Vortex]

Me too. ETL's explanation is of course possible, but I think it kind of confirms Wisdom as town... It's still maybe playable?

[Polar Vortex]

Woah, uhh, awkward...

*waits*

[Polar Vortex]

No lynch is still a bad idea I think. We'd better no-lynch at 4 people not now. Plus, if we have a vig or a heal or something like that, the no-lynch is meaningless.

[Polar Vortex]

Firebringer, I don't think you understand the idea behind the no-lynch. And not wanting information, saying it's antitown to want information is baffling.

ETL, I confirm that I post more than Snowstorm. I'm quite a spammy type of player usually, but I try to be more restrained in MS.

[Polar Vortex]

No lynch is still a bad idea I think. We'd better no-lynch at 4 people not now. Plus, if we have a vig or a heal or something like that, the no-lynch is meaningless.

Let's assume since it's 9 player game 2-7 was original composition.

Now if we lynch now and it flips town that's two town gone with possible third in the night.

So six players left in day 2, we mislynch there and they get a kill it's game over.


So worst case scenario this game is over by end of day 2.

Because you guys want to lynch,

Why do we think we lynch tomorrow? Why no-lynch today amd lynch tomorrow and not the other(correct) way?

[Polar Vortex]

-Firebringer proposes a bad plan.
- I point out the obvious flaws in it
- He explains something making an obvious wrong assumption
- I point that out as well
- Ok, I'm a horrible player and he will ignore me


Notice that ignoring me gives him the perfect reason to sidestep my questions for him. Quite a fan of ad hominem as a defense our little dragon.

[Polar Vortex]

Give me reasons why I'm wrong. Explain. Not just saying I'm a bad player. A person who's been playing for one month contradicting me on mafia theory.

[Polar Vortex]

VOTE: firebringer

You are no longer welcome here.

Why?

[Polar Vortex]

There is absolutely no need for the words idiots to be used. It just dumbs down the discussion. And I'll support the feelings that I guess my other head wanted to transmit with the why. No need for that type of post either Kaboose.

You think we have enough information. How? Why? Enough information is only when you've caught the whole scumteam. Has you majesty done that yet?

And you've ignored my point about lynching today and going to night tomorrow. Because you can't go back on your point. You have to straight up dive ahead and ignore the completly logical objections to your plan. And then you ignore the question about why Kaboose is scum. Why? Because you have no idea so you just repeat the point when asked to explain

[Polar Vortex]

If you have a vig or something like that, no lynching is even worse

[Polar Vortex]

Why incorrect? Again with the ignoring my whole point.

I'm nor saying that lynching today is a must. But applying pressure to people sure is. If we just let them like :"yeah, I suspect you, but we're no-lynching so you're in no danger", how is that helping town at all?

[Polar Vortex]

I'm okay with a no lynch today as well.

Kaboose, when firebringer brought up his nolynch attitude, you supported it. But after we me and ETL go after him, he votes him without explanation and never comments on the no-lynch attitude. Why is this?


And when I thought you said Firebringer had no place here like you meant we should policy lynch him. And I thought that was rude. But it's possible you just found him suspicious so again, please explain the suspicion

[Polar Vortex]

Interesting claim. And the way it was done is quite natural. The reveal makes sense. But it looks like an evil role to me personally(without full knowledge of what the role actually does. I'd like some description of what it does if it isn't a problem). But why do I think it seems evil role even though I'm not aware of what it does? Because I presume it's linked with Wisdom's role and I can totally see one evil and one innocent linked in this way.

-Bearbert head

[Polar Vortex]

Are you just going to soft all the characters in the show?

Why is this suspicious by itself rather than just annoying?

[Polar Vortex]

Hmm, I tend to belive Sonic's claim. But I don't think it should have been claimed+ the target is bad IMO. Why didn't you just shut up, investigated somebody(preferably somebody else like us who you found suspect. Or the other hydra.) and them came with the claim tomorrow with an actual result?

[Polar Vortex]

But why did you claim?

[Polar Vortex]

ETL is town, don't waste the investigation on her

[Polar Vortex]

No, I'm not sure. Her play is still town. Still, there are lots of people who are blank spots. Who would be much better targets. Like really, the only reason for this is to avoid a policy lynch that we weren't doing in the first place. Her explanation is fine and natural to me

[Polar Vortex]

Then why don't you investigate us? Still a better target

[Polar Vortex]

Sigh. Your play is too much like mine:P

[Polar Vortex]

I'm male. You still don't have a chance at me since I'm all snowstorm's. After courting him for three years, no way I'll dump him.
Btw, who do you want to lynch(if at all)?And what were you seeing in my iso?

[Polar Vortex]

ETL is town

, don't waste the investigation on her

what makes you so sure?

No, I'm not sure.

Her play is still town. Still, there are lots of people who are blank spots. Who would be much better targets. Like really, the only reason for this is to avoid a policy lynch that we weren't doing in the first place. Her explanation is fine and natural to me

You really seemed sure at first. Are you sure you're not sure?

Well, exagerating reads is what we all do in mafia:P.

And Snow is I'm pretty sure also male

[Polar Vortex]

On the bright side.

Town just got information. Will be helpful for night actions.

Yeaaaaaah, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Yes, town got info but so did scum... And for them knowing the cop is like 100% more important

[Polar Vortex]

And Wingback has just spoiled the party:/ I was mentioning his gambit a lot in the hope he'll get NK-ed tonight since I have no read on him. And that's what he's going for anyways
And well, from Sonic's pov who would be a blank spot? Us or the other hydra(well, they are a blank spot for me at least). She's said we're suspicious with no explanation whatsoever.

[Polar Vortex]

I have town reads on you, ETL and shtar. Evil read on firebringer and kaboose.
I'm not bought by firebringer. Think the defence of him is "too bad to be scum" which is almost always bullshit imo.
I've made some points about kaboose. His stance on firebringer doesn't make sense. He supports the no-lynch idea and after he saw me and ETL jumpimg on him, he immediatly remembered thr scum read he had.

[Polar Vortex]

No Lynch is till the best policy on a purely numbers based approach.

I guess maths wasn't your strongest subject... Ok, I'm not the best scumhunter, but my theory is fine. But okx let's say I'm a bad player. Why is everybody agreeing with me then?

Now, wingback, this is why I suspect him. I don't think he actually believes that no-lynch is a good idea. He just went with it and couldn't back down. Seriously, a new player not even thinking that maybe, maybe everybody else is right and he is wrong... And then absolutely completly ignoring the obvious flaw. I've pointed it like 3 times, he hasn't adressed it once. Once. That's not town thinking. And yes, I've been in his position. One against the whole town. And of course at one point I realized I was wrong. And I was a horrible, horrible player.

[Polar Vortex]

The reaction is just annoying me tbh. The whole: "I have this policy" seems fake to me. Like he wants to lynch the cop. That's what I get. I don't think he actually has an investigative role, think he was just trolling. And sincirely, I don't think firebringer realized Sonic was gambiting. If he had investigative role(as opposed to a tracker or something like that), he'd have claimed on the spot. But hmm, I don't get him. At all.

[Polar Vortex]

I think backing down from lost arguements is something experienced scum do a lot better than new scum. And I do think I'm a good scum player.

See what I mean? I think firebringer didn't even consider the possibility of Sonic lying. He went with the "lynch all lyers" to see if anybody would go with him, IMO. Plus, the idea that he has an investigative role(something other than a cop that he'd have counterplayed imediatly) is strange... He might have something like a tracker, but that's hardly an innocent specific role

And I admit I may be completly influenced by the fact that I don't get his play at all. I find it nonsensical. Like his only arguement is "the numbers are in my favour" without even bothering to comment on the obvious flaw? Makes no sense. So I just default to a "he's just scum blundering and going on with it because it gives him town points"

And I think scumhunting by partnership this early on is a bad idea. I'm not going to inno read somebody because the other suspect doesn't fit as his partner. I'd rather get a flip(preferably kaboose. Think he has the highest chance of flipping scum+ I think Snowstorm thinks fire is fine)
I disagree with you on Sonic. Think that just on principle we shouldn't lynch a cop claimsnt on day one. Even if it's prob a gambit, there's still a chance he's a real cop and a chance he'll get NK-ed). Tomorrow if he fails to provide any result, he'll get more scrutinity.

[Polar Vortex]

Wow, you've seen thst wingback? Not a scumslip, but really close.

[Polar Vortex]

VC please?

I'm tempted to vote kaboose right now. Wanted to discuss it with Snow before doing it, but damn, that's as close to a scumsplip you can get I think. But I don't want to hammer or anything :/

[Polar Vortex]

He said "I thought he could be lynched so I jumped on him"<---- exactly how scum thinks and not really how town does. Scum mindset. I've exageratted that scumslip idea, but this is the strongest evil read for me at least

[Polar Vortex]

Is wingback a hydra or an alt?

Not a hydra. And I think he mentioned being from another site? Or could be an alt of course

[Polar Vortex]

He said "I thought he could be lynched so I jumped on him"<---- exactly how scum thinks and not really how town does. Scum mindset. I've exageratted that scumslip idea, but this is the strongest evil read for me at least

So you admit town could think like that. But I'm scum anyways.

Worst defence ever. Towm could think like that yes, but it's so much more likely from scum. I mean if you go by this, why do we even lynch at all? Town could have done it. Town could even claim serial killer. Does the fact that a town could do it invalidate the scumminess? No way

What exactly did you find scummy between the post where you agreed with him and where you voted him? If you agreed with his posts at that time, what do you find scummy there?
It looks like you even admitted it. You saw an opportunity for a lynch there on firebringer so you jumped on it. Opportunistical scum

[Polar Vortex]

VOTE: kaboose

An explanation would be nice

[Polar Vortex]

Didn't you explain everything already? I was adding a vote for comic effect

Yeah, but I didn't ask you to explain because I want to find reasons for lynching kaboose(I have those already), I asked because I want a read on you.
And comic effect?

[Polar Vortex]

I really thought that vote put me at like L-1 or something... But like that's my first vote. I have all these scum reads on me and 1 vote.

Are you sure? I didn't vote because I was afraid of a quicklynch

[Polar Vortex]

Why didn't Polar Bear vote his biggest scumread after writing a wall about it?

This is disingenuous considering they are a hydra and you know it often takes hydra more time to coordinate, especially if there is a definitive leader that one looks to for input more than the other, which is pretty clearly the case here. Whether they are town or scum doesn't change how that dynamic operates.

Right. So I helped them.

What makes you think that is "scum wanting an easy lynch" instead of "Town wanting to help one another"?

I have some points to add. First here with the phrase "town helping town". How do you know we are town? I can see you could have assumed it, but your last read on me was "not liking what I see here". When and why did your read change? What is your read on us now?

[Polar Vortex]

Why didn't Polar Bear vote his biggest scumread after writing a wall about it?

This is disingenuous considering they are a hydra and you know it often takes hydra more time to coordinate, especially if there is a definitive leader that one looks to for input more than the other, which is pretty clearly the case here. Whether they are town or scum doesn't change how that dynamic operates.

Where did you get this is the case here? There's not really a leader at all between us. I've been posting more because Snow has been busy

[Polar Vortex]

But the point was a general one in that his statement read to me like he was trying to cast suspicion on your slot by saying that you didn't vote despite writing a wall about a suspicion that you had, which I found to be disingenuous regarding hydra in general.

With him now saying he's townreading you, negates the statement, however, I really feel like that was the intention. His reads are flipfloppy and make zero sense, and none of them really substantiated.

Yes, it also looked to me like he was casting doubt. But I don't understand the motivation of changing his read there...

[Polar Vortex]

ETL, you may have missed my point against Kaboose. It's an acute version of yours on Sonic. He mentioned he voted firebringer because other people(me and you) jumped on him. That's the wall(if you think that's a wall... ) he's mentioned(and also the "scumslip")

[Polar Vortex]

I actually agree with MS on this. The fact that technically people didn't vote kaboose doesn't mean he wasn't paying attention. The distinction is superficial

[Polar Vortex]

I actually agree with MS on this. The fact that technically people didn't vote kaboose doesn't mean he wasn't paying attention. The distinction is superficial

No no. It's not that by itself. It's the fact that he said he just wanted to "add it". Don't you see that the language implies he thought there were already votes there?

Yes, and I also thought there were votes there. Because it was pretty clear the vast majority agreed kaboose was the main suspect, the fact that people weren't actually voting him is a bit irrelevant

[Polar Vortex]

the fact that people weren't actually voting him is a bit irrelevant

Actually quite the opposite. It says a lot about the game state and those who are making the noise without the votes.

Why would people not be voting a suspect they all agree on?

Wingback was voting him before the reset I think so maybe he forgot to recast his vote?(from the top of my head at least. Maybe not). I was afraid that kaboose had too many votes already so didn't want to vote with no votecount+ wanted to discuss the read with Snowstorm about him(we only talked about wingback, you, sonic and firebringer). I guess the other hydra is in a similar position. So a bit irrelevant here

[Polar Vortex]

I don't see how people don't get what ETL is saying... Especially Polar seeing as he thought there were enough votes on me to be worried about hammering.

Polar didn't want to accidentally hammer, and MS didn't seem to care if he was. That's got to be a problem for you Polar, no? As in you have to see a problem with MS's vote?

No, I don't see a problem with that specific thing. I guessed sonic wouldn't actually hammer and if it was a first vote who cares? I of course didn't like his vote because no explanation and ETL makes some good points(like Sonic is just discussing techicalities in some of his posts). But I think the "he was just skimming" is weak. Like if Sonic was skimming, didn't ETL do the same thing missing my points on you?

And kaboose, can you explain in your own words what problem do you have with that vote in particular? Preferable not copying just what ETL said please.

Mine

[Polar Vortex]

Then why aren't you pushing me/wingback at all? In fact, you haven't mentioned any scum read on us.

Can I give a full list of reads please?

[Polar Vortex]

ETL, Snow may be easier to read for you, but he's had like 3 posts...

Oh, and he mentioned to me you play like Tammy so the overreaction didn't ping as bad.


Kaboose, can you explain the reads on me amd wingback? It seems like you put us as evil just because we pushed for you and because I asked you why you didn't push for us. Like is the only reason to suspect us the fact that we go after you, but didn't vote you? Are the reasons not reasonable?

[Polar Vortex]

How about the fact you questioned MS's vote, but then defended it against ETL?

I questioned it because it wasn't explained, but I still thought ETL's accusations were unfounded. Try to pay attention please

[Polar Vortex]

How about the fact you questioned MS's vote, but then defended it against ETL?

I questioned it because it wasn't explained, but I still thought ETL's accusations were unfounded. Try to pay attention please

You disagreed with my assessment that he was probably skimming. But it does not negate the fact that his vote was placed with no verifiable or observable town intentions, and the only intentions it appears to have is a scum motivated.

No, I don't disagree with you on that. I don't see any town motivation other than something like "let's have fun". Which could be ok? Sonic seems that kind of player to me(well, I am that kind of player so...). But his explanation makes no sense, I dread rereading it(but will have to).

But why don't you think he could be partnered with kaboose? It's very easy to see a scenario where scum sonic thought kaboose partner was doomed so he wanted to be seen on the mob. And like Wingback has mentioned, he didn't mention kaboose before which again makes the partnership more likely

[Polar Vortex]

Kaboose, why don't you explain where exactly is wingback putting words in your mouth and why?

Wingback, what is youe read on the hydrae? I've not seen you give a read on us(at least I don't remember)

[Polar Vortex]

boring

This post is where my vote came from. If anyone else suggests it was for any other reason, they can kindly fuck off for being ignorant.

Ok, explain why that post is suspicious

[Polar Vortex]

boring

This post is where my vote came from. If anyone else suggests it was for any other reason, they can kindly fuck off for being ignorant.

Ok, explain why that post is suspicious

because I took the time and effort to read the thread and provide my thoughts on everything in detail, and it was an opportunity for him to contribute/interact, and he chose to dismiss it entirely and not make a single comment on anything i'd said instead.

does that sound like something town would do? or something that scum would do in an effort to discredit a town player and brush off anything they had to say?

:/. I wanted thoughts from kaboose. He doesn't explain any reads.

And as you can see, I think firebringer is scum. I don't disagree with you here. But I don't know if it's just annoying playstyle or scum? Some people just omgus really hard and ignore people they don't like. But dom't you think the way he said he'll ignore me is a very very convenient way to ignore all my pressure on him? Especially since firebringer has ignored posts like me pointing out his flaw, but not other posts? And I completly don't see how any town can post something, ignore when somebody points out a flaw and then repeat the same point? I can't get over this, it's baffling. Maybe it's just personality(amd would be consistent with what he said to you with that "boring" post)

[Polar Vortex]

@ Polar, what's your read on Sekai? You haven't mentioned a read on them so far.

Null, tbh. Leaning on town because gut from some posts. Them expecting Sonic to town read them seems town to me. Think you've mentioned they seem very disengaged amd I agree. I'll have to read him later. My first priority for a iso.

[Polar Vortex]

I have no been ignoring your posts.

You have flaws in your arguments that you won't address, does that mean you are ignoring me????


Should I say you are avoiding me and are therefore scum.
You guys addressed your POV on a lynch today, I disagree and stand by my reasons.

Their is absolutely no reason to lynch other than you can guarantee me with 99% certainty that the person we lynch is scum.

I have posted a flaw. Five times. Why the fuck do you assume we'll lynch tomorrow? Nolynching should always happen in MyLo(exagerattion, but still) And if we no lynch today and get a heal from a doctor, it helps with absolutely nothing
Do you seriously argur you haven't ignored my points about that? Whaaaaat
Point the flaws in my arguement please. You've said I'm a horrible player and nothing else

[Polar Vortex]

Yes. A completly random lynch is better than no-lynch today. At least if we didn't have roles. With roles I'm not that sure, but relying on them to do anything is still bad.

And we wouldn't no-lynch. We'd lynch the biggest suspect. But I guess the whole idea of scumhunting goes right past your head

[Polar Vortex]

@ Polar, why do you ask to be investigated? As far as I recall, there wasn't a lot of suspicion on you and it should be more helpful from your POV for MetalSonic to investigate someone else since there's a chance of hitting scum or clearing a townie.

I was a blank spot. Nobody had a town read on me IIRC and Sonic had a scum read. Others null I presume. Objectively a better investigation than ETL who everybody seems to lean town onto. Now since people have town reads on me(at least a few of them even if weak. And no, I won't count the scum reads from firebringer and kaboose) somebody like the other hydra would be a better target

But still, if you actually have the role amd not gambiting Sonic, please don't announce the target beforehand!

[Polar Vortex]

Sigh. Why does it sound really scummy firebringer? Explain. Nobody knows what's in your mind. You could be Einstein and we'd have no idea of your genius


Sthar, it's not fun playing with bad townies as scum:( I want a challenge personally

[Polar Vortex]

Blacklists are dumb IMHO. Now can we get to actual content please?

[Polar Vortex]

Oh no, my main reason for wanting a lynch is information. And the possibility of hitting scum, but I thought mentioning that is superfluous. Just that I can't use that arguing with firebringer because he doesn't think information is good for town for whatever reason. Not even sure he knows what we mean by information+

And wing, do you seriously see town putting their fingers in their ears and saying "lalalalala I can't hear you" completly ignoring my points against it(like the whole we can go to night tomorrow)+ ignoring any attempt to get him to scumhunt. I am starting to warm to the idea that he's just bad townie( but we can't policy lynch him )

[Polar Vortex]

Polar argument is all on my theory disagreements which is a stupid read.

I disagree with you == scum.


It's like wtf? How?

No, but completly ignoring my points again and again? Complete lack of scumhunting? How do these sound as scummy behaviour.

Fire, why am I and kaboose scummy? Fucking explain something once in this game. Where am I misinterpreting you? Give examples

[Polar Vortex]

Oh, firebringer. What happened to you lynch all liars policy? I've openly admitted I've lied on thread. Where are you going to lynch me?

[Polar Vortex]

Polar argument is all on my theory disagreements which is a stupid read.

I disagree with you == scum.


It's like wtf? How?

No, but completly ignoring my points again and again? Complete lack of scumhunting? How do these sound as scummy behaviour.

Fire, why am I and kaboose scummy? Fucking explain something once in this game. Where am I misinterpreting you? Give examples

You are tunneling me, you completely ignore Kaboose screw ups. Rather have me mislynched than your ally right?
You are arguments on me are bad, and completely theory based.

You just said you are fine with a random lynch.

That good enough.

I ignored kaboose screwups. Yeah, I was over his ass completly just because I'm ignoring his screwups. Which screwups exactly btw? You still haven't pointed at them while I have done so.

[Polar Vortex]

badlogic that can be explained by being familiar with a different meta, and antagonism that can be explained by a massive ego. i.

You've just explained me perfectly in one sentence!:P except the bad logic, think it's working fine this game(yes, I know you probably weren't talking about me, but still)

[Polar Vortex]

If I'm townreading kaboose, and I'm townreading sthar, and I'm townreading ffery, and I'm townreading ETL, and I'm townreading polar bears, and I'm townreading fire bringer, and I'm know I'm town,

Who is scum???

Let me guess...

Vote: Metal Sonic.

[Polar Vortex]

We'll how much is flavor alignment indicator?

I mean....Bojack could be evil right?
He has issues lol

I have no flavor knowledge. Is he a main character? Usually the guy in the title is town

Yes, he is. In the same sense that Hannibal Lecter is the main character of the show Hannibal(one of the main characters at least). Bojack could be evil(and would be one of the evilest characters?). But we shouldn't lynch him today with that claim....

That leaves me.... firebringer? I don't know

Oh, snowstorm voted Sonic, so I'll let that there and have it as an excuse not to think

[Polar Vortex]

Dude, you're selfcentered. I've never tunneled on you.

Please explain why did you change your read on me please? And you're not even reading when I said my other head voted Sonic:/. Like this is how much you're paying attention to the game.

Why isn't ETL town? She seems obvtown to me.

[Polar Vortex]

Who do you think is the towniest player here? Why?

Sthar,

Been agreeing with most of what sthar has been saying minus theory on no lynch, seems to be on up and up.
Disagreed with a few reads but I see where they can from .

What do you actually agree with him on?

[Polar Vortex]

Who do you think is the towniest player here? Why?

Sthar,

Been agreeing with most of what sthar has been saying minus theory on no lynch, seems to be on up and up.
Disagreed with a few reads but I see where they can from .

What do you actually agree with him on?

It was mostly of what he though about Kaboose.

But I've been posting the same things. Wingback too. Why sthar over us?

And what question? Point it out.

[Polar Vortex]

He was asking you that dude not me...
Let's see. Stromgest town reads are ETL and Wingback

[Polar Vortex]

He was asking you that dude not me...
Let's see. Stromgest town reads are ETL and Wingback

This is why you are on my:

Misguided Town slot.


You always gotta have at least one player whose reads are bad!!!

At least I have reads unlike you!

[Polar Vortex]

And you missed it. Sonic is almost certainly lying

[Polar Vortex]

Sekai, did firebringer pull reads out of his ass with no explanation whatsover in his last game?

[Polar Vortex]

>.>
You not find that hypocritical with your own town reads?

Well, ETL's reactions are very genuine and I can certainly see her annoyance with your play.
Wingback is obvtown for his posting. He's reasonable, I share thoughts with him on a couple of subjects and he looks like he's scumhunting

[Polar Vortex]

That's the problem. He

looks

like he's scumhunting. Is he?

You tell me. He's your suspect, not mine. I don't need to defend him. You need to attack him and you haven't done that?

[Polar Vortex]

What has wingback done that is obvtown?

this is a question

“Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[Polar Vortex]

VOTE: wingback

This player is below the bar

Uhh, Wingback is the bar.

Why didn't you vote him when you reached the conclusion that everyone else was town? (Right before I voted you).

[Polar Vortex]

Kisai, I think Wingback is suspectex by two people but mostly everybody else has a strongish town read there

[Polar Vortex]

Oh, 81 is definetly by Snowstorm. I think I can explain my read: I originally assumed Wisdom ususlly pushes people on D1. I thought that was a personality trait so wasn't particularily interested in it. Then I saw the overreaction, but I preffered not to vote there since I think Snow had mentioned he had played with her before and wanted his opinion. Also, I didn't think a ETL wagon would give us information(which I assumed was the reason Wisdom wanted her wagoned). Then Snowstorm told me ETL plays a bit like Tammy and that what I thought was an overreaction was quite normal. After this I didn't have a scumread on her anymore. Also, the point I agreed with kaboose about looking like bussing was more of a "if ond of them flips scum, look at the other" rather than" I suspect them because she looks like a wisdom partner". And I never use a partnership read before having at least one scum flip

Oh, and I thought posting a screenshot on thread was rude not to Titus, but in general as it would bring outside info into the thread(basicslly what you said)

Makes sense?

[Polar Vortex]

Oh, and to me that interaction looked like bussing to me because I faked something like that with my scumpartner the last game I've played.

[Polar Vortex]

I see so many try hards which I usually associate with town but idk.

Reads in This are kind of sporadic and changing a lot.

Usual day one bs.

This is rude. People make efforts posting content and you call them tryhards and say they post bullshit. Extremly rude.


Oh, sekai, when you made that 605 wall and you kind of attacked me a bit, what do you think of my response?

And both the heads have a town read on sekai. I think she( I mean more fferylt)looks for motivation in other people's posts and they(because both) seem to interact with sonic to get a read.

[Polar Vortex]

I never called you for insulting other people. But when they make actual content, actusl effort which you aren't btw, to dismiss it just like that is extremly rude. At least be thankful they are doing your job for you if you're innocent

[Polar Vortex]

Yes, it's you who are right and everybody else in the game wrong. Don't even think you could be wrong! I mean, it's not like the game is filled with people who've been playing for more that 4 years and you for a month, no? Everybody is just persecuting you whose play is objectively perfect and beyond reproach!


Oh. The disconnect is still there. We're voting Sonic even if this partcular head has a minor town read on him(and everybody in the game for that matter :/)

[Polar Vortex]

If someone puts a gun to your head and pulls the trigger.
Who do you blame? The person holding the gun? Or the one getting shot?

all

Your analogy is misguided. A better one would be in am office where we all work and you stand there playing video games and wondering why the manager fired you

[Polar Vortex]

you stand there playing video games and wondering why the manager fired you

your analogy is wronger.

firebringer is not playing video games. he has a speech lisp and people are calling for the manager to fire him because you hate hearing his sound + he is "new on the block"



wait till he brings in the fire

then you will be fired

Hmm, I don't like this. At all. The joke is pretty funny actually, but it looks like he thinks firebringer is easy to manipulate and praises him in order to guarantee firebringer will listen to him after that. What do you think, sekai?

[Polar Vortex]

And I'm sorry you aren't enjoying the game firebringer

[Polar Vortex]

Hmm, can you explain firebringer? I've started to believe he's antitown town and not scum. Plus, even if I agreed, I want reasons for votes

[Polar Vortex]

I can also help if you want. But you don't have an inno read on me, so... You said something abour one of the hydras pinging you I think. Do you remember what?

[Polar Vortex]

Ok Sonic, I won't ignore you. Let's see. Can I get three reasons you suspect Wingback?

[Polar Vortex]

Can we stop arguing with MS and just lynch him?

[Polar Vortex]

Can we stop arguing with MS and just lynch him?

no you cant. go sit in the corner SS

But I'm tired of sitting in the corner. I want blood!

[Polar Vortex]

I have. Not a fan of the guy, but I'm curious to watch the whole thing.

Now, where are those MS votes?

[Polar Vortex]

Umm, I have thr same problem as Sonic. Since I started kind of reading Firebringer as town, I started to get paranoid of sthar in particular. Maybe because Sekai and maybe because he's not obvtown as opposed to wingback/etl/kaboose. Also, like wingback said that I asked the same questions: this game it actually happened that I posted some questions and he ninjad me. Thinking so much on thr same page is a good indication he's town from my PoV.

My weakest townread(so by default a scumread) would be Sonic, so I'm ok with Snowstorm's vote there.

But that "I don't get town vibes post" from Sonic is weak. Like can you point some posts where you get bad vibes from.

And ETL, don't you thinking the interaction betweem Sonic and Firebringer is more Sonic looking for an ally than both of them scratching the other's ear?

[Polar Vortex]

Polar, i agree with sthar that he's better lynch for tomorrow based on what he does. i'd rather lynch firebringer today.

p-edit: i suppose but i think you are wrong about firebringer.

Hmm, I thought that too, but I'm not completly sure. And I won't vote over my other head.

And sonic, I'm doing the same as you but at least I have another head who doesn't suspect you by POE.

[Polar Vortex]

That deadpool is lame if he didn't claim to be third party in a game where two allignments was mentioned before

[Polar Vortex]

Polar, i agree with sthar that he's better lynch for tomorrow based on what he does. i'd rather lynch firebringer today.

p-edit: i suppose but i think you are wrong about firebringer.

He's scum, there's no better lynch. What do you expect him to do that he hasn't had the chance to do yet?

[Polar Vortex]

Because if he's NOT scum, he's an asset, and giving him a night to prove himself is beneficial in that case. He's the new oldMastin.

How is he an asset? You don't seriously believe he's a cop, do you?

[Polar Vortex]

Besides, he IS scum.

[Polar Vortex]

If he's such an incredible town player, his play here is even more of a reason to think he's scum, because it's far from being what I'd expect from an incredible town player. And you agree. All you have on him are your hopes. We can't not lynch players because we hope or wish they were town when everything points at them being scum. You're not paranoid about him being scum, you're paranoid of him being town, you're afraid of being wrong about your scum read. That's what I get.

[Polar Vortex]

but nothing points at me being scum? what are you talking about?

For starters, your "laugh-in-your face scum attitude". Then there are your terrible reads, your bad vote, your chit chat spam...


It's pretty sad looking at that vote count and thinking the only good vote there is ours. Come on town.

[Polar Vortex]

Oh, my reads are bad because I was almost convinced Kaboose was scum and then he gets PI-ed and my whole worldview is shattered.

[Polar Vortex]

Why do you assume there's a case on wingback, sthar?

[Polar Vortex]

because there are votes on him

Well, sonic voted him because he wasn't town enough and firebringer sheeped him because sonic was nice to him.

[Polar Vortex]

VOTE: ETL

sheeping

Sheeping who?

[Polar Vortex]

Vote Sonic.

[Polar Vortex]

Yeah, Sonic

What do you think about his conversation with firebringer?

[Polar Vortex]

My other head naturally.
Actually sthar, but I wouldn't mind my other head to comment

[Polar Vortex]

^commenting, not to comment. Grammar

Btw, ETL, what arguements do you see on firebringet being scum other than he's very antitown. I of course agree with the second, but when I tried to think of reasons for the first I didn't know.

And guys, why do people think firebringer was softclaiming cop? I thought he was softclaiming vig???

[Polar Vortex]

Oh, ETL, your reaction to the Sekai's claim is the same as mine from like 20 pages ago^______^. You get bonus cookies for that

[Polar Vortex]

It's not so much about being antitown as it is being overtly antagonistic, impudent and stubborn

in order to

avoid contributing anything substantial. He may feel like he isn't able to do so believably as scum. This was actually one of the things I resorted to quite often as my scumgame deteriorated. You can see it in whatever most recent Anti game where I was scum, I think with Guyett and Flubber or someting like that, and ended up with mastin in LYLO. it was super rough. i've lost the will to be scum these days. I lose interest in the game. scum hunting is so much more fun.

anyway my point is that it is an easy and unconscious switch from puzzle-solving to combativeness and even ffery pointed out a marked difference in his playstyle.

what are you talking about, soft claiming? i didn't see any other claims? the only thing i got was kaboose and ms who claimed outright. oh and ffery who said they were a neighborising neighbor something. and sthar who basically said he can confirm himself.

Sonic pointed firebringer actually played a nice game as scum. I mean, it's obvious sonic is trying to manipulate fire here but would that being true change your read of him?
Don't you think him refusing to contribute can be just a personal policy? Like, general lazyness+ lynching scum

Oh, firebringer said in a post "he'll take care of kaboose tonight". That lead me to believe a vig softclaim. Other people(wingback) thought about a cop claim or something

[Polar Vortex]

Sekai, I didn'r catch the thing about european players. Both of the heads of this hydra are European so if you're trying to imply this game lacks european players...

[Polar Vortex]

Oh. But that doesn't make much sense. He's posting in good time for european players so if they were more euros there, they'd interact even more with him?

[Polar Vortex]

Nothing. Just wanted to comment on something before we lynch Sonic.

So yeah, lynch Sonic!

[Polar Vortex]

Just wanted to comment on something

ok..... why?

Because I was bored and needed something to discuss!

And firebringer, sorry if you're not having fun this game The problem is we don't feel you listen to us(for example you ignored my flaw of your arguement, you posted a "boring" response to ETL making effort). This does not help town in our opinion. Maybe you're from a different site where you solve the game with night actions on the like, but I think everybody here is more interested in what we call "scumhunting". That obviously includes giving reasons for reads+ answering questions. It's very annoying for somebody to ask questions just for the other player to ignore them.

[Polar Vortex]

The "even if I'm lying" kind of is an admission, don't you think?

[Polar Vortex]

That's absolutely clearly an admission. And I'm not sure how 2 is relevant in any way... ETL is completly right about mafia being a team game. If you are serial killer, yes, you go alone. If you're scum you can try going alone by bussing partners. But town needs to do what town does, working together

[Polar Vortex]

There's a difference between discussion and antagonism. You accuse me of antagonism, but when people post things looking for feedback, and your feedback is "You're a bad player. This post is boring." the reaction is not going to be very favorable to you.

What?

You can discuss and be antagonistic at same time you dolt.

One doesn't exclude the other.

Yes, but the correct response to disagreeing is certainly not going ad hominem, but rather "I disagree because...". See the because? That's the key word in the sentence. Giving reasons. We feel you haven't done that.

[Polar Vortex]

Are we in the courtroom?

Well, we're 11 players here. We'll be the jury. 9 of us think it was a lie and think the accuser has confesed to his sinful ways. One of the juries is the defendent for some strange beaurocratic reasons. Should we not pass the sentence as a lie because one of the juries classified the admission as technically not one, even if the meaning is clear. Or don't you find the meaning clear?

[Polar Vortex]

We're 11. Hydras count as two people in this. Counting them as one person is rude.

And juries are unanimous? Damn, the idea is even more stupid than I thought. What if we have a jury who is obtuse like I think it's thd case here.

[Polar Vortex]

but nothing points at me being scum? what are you talking about?

For starters, your "laugh-in-your face scum attitude". Then there are your terrible reads, your bad vote, your chit chat spam...


It's pretty sad looking at that vote count and thinking the only good vote there is ours. Come on town.

So the grass is orange, your nose is blue, and Orlando is bigger than China, and that makes me scum.

Yeah, anybody on earth can knows that's bullshit.

Yes, that's exactly it. Keep on scumming.

[Polar Vortex]

*

(wrong emote. [YES, it matters])

[Polar Vortex]

ETL, do you still think Firebringer is scum?

[Polar Vortex]

He claimed he was a cop, why would you need him to say it again?

If he's really a cop he should have no problem in saying it again? And i he does so he should also flavor claim.

[Polar Vortex]

I am going to cop you tonight polar bears like I promised earlier

Flavor claim.

[Polar Vortex]

How are there people who do not want o lynch this?

[Polar Vortex]

Shut up scum!

[Polar Vortex]

Oops. Too harsh?

Well,

at least im honest

[Polar Vortex]

I can "no u" with more words but in this case I don't really think it's necessary; both you and ETL are scum reading MS, so I shouldn't need to show you or convince you of something you're seeing too. Besides I'm lazy and have no scum-hunting credibility.

So I'm just waiting for people to realize and accept that MS is scum and needs to be lynched.

[Polar Vortex]

Umm, is this "profiling" necessary?

[Polar Vortex]

Yeah, on this piece of theory I agree with Sonic. The lynch all liars policy is flawed. Sometimes the best strategy for town is to lie. Don't be rigid with the wiki! IMHO, the wiki attempts to give a somewhat basic understanding of the game, but real games are a lot more nuanced. Just following some some rules without thinking is IMHO boring and promotes mechanical play

But in this case I agree! Lynch Sonic!

Umm, all scum are liars. If you don't lie at all in the game, surely you can't be scum

[Polar Vortex]

I'm a daycop and have just investigated you.

[Polar Vortex]

Angry Pidgeon did say the game could be crazy

[Polar Vortex]

Ok, I was joking. Wanted kaboose's reaction since I was paranoid of him. Now I'm not. That reaction is pure town.

[Polar Vortex]

if you want to lynch me that bad then maybe tomorrow you should claim cop and claim you have a guilty on me.


then be blacklisted as I flip town

Then be un blacklisted if you flip scum?

You'll be lynched

today

. We do not fear the blacklist.

[Polar Vortex]

Lol are you a real life cop? Lol

The profiling makes this game completely creepy.

No.

Face to face I wouldn't need to ask you questions. This is a limitation of the text-based medium. I do not believe we are communicating effectively, so I'd like to establish a baseline for your cognitive development, general empathy, and primary motivation. I'd also like to understand any language or cultural barriers. This will help me communicate with you more efficiently and form a more accurate read on your in-game intent.

Why are you focusing on Firebringer? Do you seriously need all that to read him better or do you want to work with him that bad?

It all seems pretty unnecessary. And you didn't ask these questions to anyone else. The game has also been going on for some days, so if you wanted to profile him, why wait until now?

[Polar Vortex]

I don't think anyone should be expected to answer personal questions from a stranger on the internet. I'd be pretty creeped out, too.

I wanted to be profiled:(

[Polar Vortex]

Sekai no Ki, Wingback, sthar8, why no vote?

[Polar Vortex]

Sekai no Ki, Wingback, sthar8, why no vote?

you're only just asking us that?

What do you mean?

[Polar Vortex]

I don't get any profiling:(


Well, wanted to ask. Sekai didn't claim their flavour, no?

Oh, and has anybody who has watched thr show thought who would be the evil characters? I don't see any obvious choice tbf. So clearing kaboose for claiming bojack isn't that good. I mean the way he claimed makes him PI, not what he claimed.

And no, we aren't no lynching. Try something else

[Polar Vortex]

No lunch on the other hand is even worse

[Polar Vortex]

We both pick Sonic.

[Polar Vortex]

Tells me Kaboose jumped from null to scum for me.

You're going to have to do better than that. Explain why. And why, if he's scum, you feel like letting him live another day rather than voting for him right now?

No matter how positive always leave room for error.

I have night actions which might help me sort out Kaboose.

You did here.

I think he's softing vig, not cop?

[Polar Vortex]

His attitude and approach are disruptive to the game, and attempts to reason with him have been met with dismissal and derision. Do you really not see the point of figuring out how to talk to him without screaming "why are you not listening?!" every third post?

It's only disruptive if you let it disrupt. He's one of several players in this game, one you described as low hanging fruit. So, of all people you can interact with, read and try to work with, you chose the disruptive low hanging fruit. You can ignore him, you can read him without trying to have a conversation with him, you don't need to reason with him. What you're doing is not productive and doesn't make sense.

Thoughts on no lunch again??

I'd consider it if I didn't have suspects or had doubts about them, but I'm pretty confident in our reads and strongly believe we can lynch scum today.

[Polar Vortex]

It's only disruptive if you let it disrupt. He's one of several players in this game, one you described as low hanging fruit. So, of all people you can interact with, read and try to work with, you chose the disruptive low hanging fruit. You can ignore him, you can read him without trying to have a conversation with him, you don't need to reason with him. What you're doing is not productive and doesn't make sense.

Given how much time you and ETL are wasting trying to deal with him, I don't think it's reasonable for

you

to judge

my

efforts as unproductive. Antagonistic or not, he's a player in this game which means I need to form a read on him.

If he's town, as I suspect, then an effort to help him become a contributing member of the town should be pretty obviously welcome to townies.

Making a decree as to how

I

can best form a read is questionable to the point of being scummy.

That's not me. It's the other head

[Polar Vortex]

You pretty clearly criticized Snowstorm for me dealing with firebringer is weird

[Polar Vortex]

yeah, but at least my other half has gone in a completly different direction. I mean our slot has not been one dimensional, but you in thr last days at least interacted mostly with firebringer. Who are your scumreads?

[Polar Vortex]

It's only disruptive if you let it disrupt. He's one of several players in this game, one you described as low hanging fruit. So, of all people you can interact with, read and try to work with, you chose the disruptive low hanging fruit. You can ignore him, you can read him without trying to have a conversation with him, you don't need to reason with him. What you're doing is not productive and doesn't make sense.

Given how much time you and ETL are wasting trying to deal with him, I don't think it's reasonable for

you

to judge

my

efforts as unproductive. Antagonistic or not, he's a player in this game which means I need to form a read on him.

If he's town, as I suspect, then an effort to help him become a contributing member of the town should be pretty obviously welcome to townies.

Making a decree as to how

I

can best form a read is questionable to the point of being scummy.

But we have done more than that. We have sorted out Firebringer and we have been pursuing our scum reads.

Now, my problem with you is that you haven't been as present, and when you are you chose to spend time on a slot you described as low hanging fruit. When you said that about Fire you also said you believed there to be scum in MS/ETL and that Ffery was pinging you. But instead of pursuing those leads you chose to focus on the low hanging fruit you think is disruptive. That's not productive, and by focusing on Firebringer it's like you're hanging the fruit even lower.

Kaboose, we're not lynching Firebringer.

[Polar Vortex]

yeah, but at least my other half has gone in a completly different direction. I mean our slot has not been one dimensional, but you in thr last days at least interacted mostly with firebringer. Who are your scumreads?

There is one of me, and two of you. This is almost as bad as defending with "oh no that was my other head."

Still, the one who argued with Firebringer has done more than that.

[Polar Vortex]

I don't buy sthar thinking this is actually scummy for us.

[Polar Vortex]

Do you still think there's scum between MS/ETL? Which way are you leaning?

Is Ffery still pinging you?

[Polar Vortex]

VOTE: Sthar.

Firsts.

[Polar Vortex]

Yeah, sthar it is. He had no problem at all with us until we started asking him questions.

[Polar Vortex]

And he seems to have forgotten the players he did have a problem with.

[Polar Vortex]

VOTE: Sthar.

Firsts.

omgus

VOTE: polar vortex

It's pretty obviously not an omgus vote? We were suspecting sthar so we started questioning him. He then turns himself to us. He's omgusing really. Subtly, but he is

[Polar Vortex]

I said in one post I think something about you as a negative. But then, most of it is pretty unprovable since we were discussing a sonic-sthar partnership between the heads. Snowstorm said it's best to keep quiet about you before sonic would presumably flip scum. But he went to question you(which was the attack I mentioned really). After that we think you felt the suspicion in that questioning and went for us. That's my view at least

[Polar Vortex]

VOTE: Sthar.

Firsts.

omgus

VOTE: polar vortex

Nice helmet.

[Polar Vortex]

@wing, fferyguyn- Talk to me about PV. I don't see anything in their iso that looks like legitimate scumhunting. They're focusing on the theoryfight with furbringer over providing content, and

their jump onto me was both telegraphed and really weak.

I'm not sure if I'm just frustrated with the double standard and revisionism, but I looked through their ISO and I can't recall why I was townreading them.

Was that why you started to suddenly suspect us? Did that also give you the convenient amnesia that made you forget why you were town reading us? Or maybe you don't remember because you had no reason to town read us in the first place.

BTW, you still haven't answered what your current stance on MS/ETL and Ffery is. Did you forget you suspected them? Or were they random baseless reads too?

[Polar Vortex]

IDK maybe I'm wrong.

PV- show my why you thought I was suspicious using only things that came up before I called you scummy.

Now, my problem with you is that you haven't been as present, and when you are you chose to spend time on a slot you described as low hanging fruit. When you said that about Fire you also said you believed there to be scum in MS/ETL and that Ffery was pinging you. But instead of pursuing those leads you chose to focus on the low hanging fruit you think is disruptive. That's not productive, and by focusing on Firebringer it's like you're hanging the fruit even lower.

We were worried about you, because of PoE, neither of us was town reading you. ^That was what triggered us to push you.

[Polar Vortex]

Those posts tell me nothing. I still don't see the read progression. I want clear, direct answers.

How did you go from "one of MS/ETL is scum" to "[No idea what your ETL read is]" and "Could compromise on MS"?

And I still don't know what's your stance on Ffery. Is she still pinging you? I don't even know what it was that was pinging.

[Polar Vortex]

None of that creative writing specifically addresses the points I made about you, nor does it answer my questions.

[Polar Vortex]

You had leads. You said you thought one of MS/ETL was scum and that Ffery was pinging you. You went on with your life, came back and instead of pursuing those leads, you started profiling the slot you had described as "low-hanging fruit". You didn't even comment on those other players. Low hanging fruit denotes a player you think is likely to be town and to be picked on by scum, and you decide to pick on him instead of looking at the possible scum who were picking on him or at any of your other leads.

To summarize, you had reason and tools to scum-hunt and you didn't. You drew attention to a player you expect scum to push. I think that shows a scum mind set.

[Polar Vortex]

My attempts to reason with you are being met with dismissal and derision. I must have gotten your profile wrong.

[Polar Vortex]

Sonic, what has sthar done and wingback not to deserve a town read?

[Polar Vortex]

Well, that's a boring qyestion. Mine's better. Answer it

[Polar Vortex]

Keep ignoring my question^^

[Polar Vortex]

I want to lynch both sthar and MS actually.

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That post is like using every mafia jargon possible without saying anything... I think the only point he made was "he's discussing theory" and the rest is just many words saying nothing

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sthar, what happened to the let's not lynch Sonic today because of role, but then seeing him as an ok compromise?

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Think it's just scum desperate because he was caught

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And where did ETL say my points were really bad? She said she agrees with us more than not. She agreed with me on firebringer at the begining, on Sonic and on you. She doesn't agree now with my firebringer is town theory, but it's not like she has said that's suspicious from me. You're blatantly doing revisionist history here and I hate it.

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And I'll let you decide my other head answer your weak ass rebuttals. I disagree with him using the words "picking on him". I think better words would be "deciding to interact with him so you can safely ignore you prior statement that there is one scum in Sonic/ETL". You didn't want to lurk so you came and wasted time with firebringer, something I admit I have done, but I've gone after Sonic too(and yes, it's not fair that since I'm in a hydra I can be lazier than you and my slot would still do things. That's why I'm playing in a hydra)

Do you think there is still scum in ETL/Sonic? If yes, why did you say you could compromise on Sonic but still pushed ETL?

She made two points against me. Only in one it looks like she's actuslly a bit suspicious while in the other she's just giving me some advice. Saying she disagreed a lot with me is BS, since she agreed a lot more

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I'll let my other head answer. Not sure why I wrote decide

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@wing, fferyguyn- Talk to me about PV. I don't see anything in their iso that looks like legitimate scumhunting. They're focusing on the theoryfight with furbringer over providing content, and their jump onto me was both telegraphed and really weak.

I'm not sure if I'm just frustrated with the double standard and revisionism, but I looked through their ISO and I can't recall why I was townreading them.

A good part of it is subjective stuff that I've mentioned before: mirroring what I'm thinking at several points. Other reasons:

They are sticking their neck out for a Sonic lynch beyond what's necessary considering nearly everyone had some degree of suspicion towards Sonic.

Their read progression from Sonic to you was initiated by them. They picked up on you profiling Firebringer, found it scummy and pushed on it. I realize it is null for you since you apparently do it as both alignments but I could see someone who doesn't know that thinking it to be scummy. It's more their initiative that I read as town than their actual arguments. And why pick up on that and pursue it as hard as they are doing when they could continue pushing for a Sonic lynch - a push for which they are catching no flak for? They had plenty of chances to back out. And if Sonic is their partner, bussing hard and backing o when a Sonic lynch is still on the table doesn't make sense.

We're not backing down from Sonic! Just we prefer sthar now(more because some people prefer to let Sonic live another day, as presonally I'm indifferent between sthar and Sonic)

Btw sthar, why no vote in our direction? So you could use it for that trick with voting yourself and then unvoting that reads so fake?

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Sthar8 is town.

Why? Has he done anything a good player like him can't fake?

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You misunderstood my post completly. I never attackec you or criticized you for not being a hydra. That's a strawman. I criticized you because instead of doing actual scumhunting you came and started profiling firebringer. I personally have no problem with you doing thst, but you were only doing that and talking a bit about kaboose who was already PI. Not going after scum at all

Let's go again. You said ETL thought my points were really bad. For that you quoted somewhere where she thought I was fake(not having bad points there!) and some advice on being on a hydra(I did have a bad point there I agree). But it's still one and she agreed with our stances time and time again. Which you completly ignore. Why ignore that? It's for me clearly blantand revisionism. That I've just fact checked. Your time for fact checking

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Oh, I remembered your procces. Actually I was having problems figuring out what you meant by process. I thought that post made no sense and the whole idea of being attacked for defending ETL is laughable when I didn't feel you defended her( well, as opposed to Sonic who imediatly went "ok, ETL is suspicious because of this so I need to claim cop and shit". But nobody would have gone for her for that shitty reason

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And your stance in regards to Sonic is clear, but we are asking why you are adopting it and after that still saying "I could compromise on him". Like you've said you pretty much want to keep him until tomorrow, expressed more suspicion on ETL thsn on him but still when you were talking about who you want to lynch you push him as your second choice. Not natural

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Because what she said was fake wasn't even a point, but a reaction test so she can't possibly say it's a bad point that she disagrees with.

You want times she agreed with us? Just from the last set: the chainsaw comment, the vote on you

Before that: the attack onto Sonic, my discussion with firebringer

Already a whole deal more than what you've pointed as disagreement

And this isn't busywork. It's you blatantly lying in thread and me catching you with cold facts. And still, I'm just pointing out how your wholr attack for ETL makes no sense. You attavk her because you think that despite disagreeing with me a lot she called my conclusion good. She disagreed with me once. ONCE. And agreed a whole lot more


And why ignore the Sonic question? I'll ask you again. Why did you say you're letting Sonic live another day, but still mentioned him as a secondary suspect you're interested in lynching even though you've mentioned ETL a lot more as a suspect

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Do you people not see how neither Soniv or sthar have given any fucking reason for scumreading me? Sonic has said a coupls of mumbo-jumbo that's like taking a mafia dictionary and putting all common accusations there. And sthar has been blatantly ignoring questions, lying in thread and spreading misinformation. They're pretty clearly afraid of us here

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I'm not responding in an essay but with bulletpoints:

-In the introduction, since you used every mafia jargon known to mankind you've mentioned lack of ingagement. However, in the first part of the follow up you mention we're ingaged. What changed between last night and now?
- You mention meaningless questions. First, that's subjective since for example Wingback saw the same things
- You said I ingaged in theory discussion. But how is 337 nor relevant to the game? Somebody mentioned admitting you're wrong a newscum mistake and I disagreed
- The hydra dissonance thing is overdone. I have at no point used thst in my favour. Please note that both heads are quite new to hydras, especislly me as it's my first game in a hydra.
-I absolutely don't see Snowstorm's lack of conviction. Saying he's lacking conviction and then attacking us for tunneling don't fir together. + I don't see what more do you want than "he's scum, just lynch him"
-I do get where you claim inside knowledge on ETL, but it's pretty clearly just s strong town read from me. But the point about knowing you're innocent is baffling since it appears nowhere that we believe that


In conclusion, Sonic's case makes one objective point and then a lot of subjevtive posting like being ungenuine(but not pointing our where)

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I mean it's objective that at the time you were doing absolutely no scumhunting whatsover, with the bad vote meaning unexplained amd completly pulled out of your ass. At this point you haven't explained your read on Wingback with anything that has any value. You say words like ungenuine and the like, but that can be said of absolutely all points. It takes no effort whatsover to call a post ungenuine and say it pinged you. Uses no logic.
And you attitude is very clearly and objectively trolly so that's where the in your face scum.

Do you realise you have no facts whatsover other than "he's discussing theory" which was actuslly pretty fucking relevant to my read on firebringer?

Your vote is clearly both an OMGUS and a chainsaw for my attack on sthar.

And no. Creating this "You are going down today" is so ridiculous it reeks of desperation. You were doing nothing but when I started to attack sthar you immediatly build a bullshiy case on us. The one who is going down today is either you or your buddy sthar, the other one following imediatly tomorrow. You're just desperate because you already see the defeat with mostly everybody scumreading you.



And 544 is pretty clearly "I'm going to reasses things since thr kaboose claim shattered my reads so in the meantime I'll let our vote on Sonic". After reassesing, I came with a pretty strong read on sthar that I wanted to push tomorrow after a Sonic lynch, but Snowstorm preffered to question him today.

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Wow, appeal to your prior reads. Your previous games are completly irrelevant to this game and using them as an appeal is laughable.

Snowstorm didn't explain everything because it was so fucking obvious what he meant and I had to explain it now becausr you manipulated what he said in your favour or actuslly didn't read and mechanicslly go through it. You

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No, I still take absolute responsability if you flip innocent since I'm synched with him now.

And you asked me a question about what Snowstorm did and I actuslly agreed with him there. If I let him answet, you'd attack me for hydra dissonance, if I defend it it's still not good. This time we're completly synched so I can defend his words. And of course I needed to present my own reads not only the hydra ones.


You're stretching my words so much. Caught scum. Done

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First, you aren't going to lynch me. Boasting about that is ridiculous.
Two, sthar is as guilty as you. Why attack you when I can get him lynched and then with a scum flip I'm conf town and lynch you as a partner? Or I can do it the other way. I don't care, but just you askinf for me to vote you means you'd prefer sthar to live than you. So I'll still push him because I'm a contrarian

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And snowstorm did explain his reads it's just I have to elaborate since you are so extremly obtuse and ignore it. For fuck's sake, you didn't even read it carefully, but made assesmrnts about it.
People, sonic knows I'm destroying him in this arguement so he's using the "I'm always right. Trust me" fallavy. That's so obvious a fallacy that I fail to see how a good player like him would use it as town

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I can write the same kind of arguement: I'm 6-0 as scum and never lynched so the idea that you'd catch me is laughable


See, this is still a fallacy. Disclaimer for you, even though it's true I'm 6-0, what I presented is still stupid as fuck and I did it to illustrate what you're doing with the "trust me". So you aren't allowed now to say I claimed this. Just so we're clear. I'm tired of your BS so I'll just explain everyrhing as if I did to people with low mental capabilitirs even though I know yours is pretty high, but that way you can't pretend I meant the opposite