Micro 521: Desperation (Game Over)

[Varian-]

VOTE: temp

Sorting the active people is hard for me right now. KT just reads newbie so strongly that I dont have an alignment read there yet. I saw and agreed with the tier vote on kmd at the time it was made but kmd also appears to be asking good questions that move the game along, which tempers my read significantly. Tier still town, though. I don't have any strong suspicions on the people who've been active as the game stands now.

So, this is a blatant sheep of Mario.

[Varian-]

Uhh wow, once I can write off as noob play, but twice? My brain is stewing in some "too scummy to be scum" fallacy soup, but fuck it, we'll do it live:

VOTE: KT

Why'd you vote temp?

Pedit @edo: This post answer your question?

[Varian-]

Why should temp claim? Am I missing something other than the brief L-1?

[Varian-]

Right, got it.

FA, are you insane or scum?

[Varian-]

You're assuming the desperado didn't know to not counter-claim without being told not to counter-claim, which is not necessarily the case. Although with newer players that possibility is less likely.

[Varian-]

Multi quote over multiple pages not working, so @whoever asked me why Mario, I thought he made a decent case for this stage in the game and at the time I wasn't really feeling the other wagons.

Temp, why are you not voting?

Lex and varian, stop flying under the radar and comment on the game tyvm

The game has been open less than 24 hours and has accrued way more pages in that time than I was anticipating for a micro. The only access I've had so far has been the occasional phone post while at work. So... sorry I don't get to sit at a computer and f5 all day?

If you have any specific questions or comments feel free to ask them and I'll get to them when I can. In the meantime, I'm doing my best to keep up but there's a lot of fluff and sometimes I have to actually work while I'm at work.

We're not lynching you flow stop being a lazy crybaby and play the actual game instead of condoning your own lynch.

you don't want to lynch me because you know that you'll be outed as scum once I flip town tho

I've been playing the correct game the entire way at a level far beyond any of you

[Varian-]

And IDK, I think I might be in the "ignore flow forever" camp now. I've never seen multiple fake claims end well when playing elsewhere, I hope it's not considered good play here?

[Varian-]

Who's scum, varian, and why aren't you trying to get him/her lynched?

Is there a reason that, out of everything you possibly could have asked me, you asked something that should already be very clear by a) reading my ISO and b) noting the lack of recent activity by my scum suspects? Should I force myself to come up with questions to ask scum suspects who aren't here rather than letting questions occur to me naturally (such as now)? Would you rather I make a post every hour, "hey, just as a reminder, I still think temp and KT are scummy and you should all vote one of them"? Because I'm not going to flood the thread any more than it's already being flooded.

This looks like you're pressuring me for the sake of looking like you're putting pressure on someone (and because I said I'd answer questions if you had any) and not an actual genuine, organic question. My reads have been pretty clear with the exception of some of my town/null reads, which I prefer to keep close to my chest if they're not being pressured/wagoned.

I kind of think desperado voting is dumb, but eh,

despvote: KT

[Varian-]

UNVOTE: KT

I'm just not feeling it anymore. Recent posts say newbie town to me. Temp read has also slipped but that's due to absence of content rather than any

VOTE: TierShift

I will probably get flack for this from people who still think he's town, but that's ok. The reads list in 208 strikes me as super safe, given the game state and his activity within it. After all those questions he's asked and how active he's been, his scum suspects are three people who haven't posted much and KT? All four people are super easy targets right now and I'm just not buying that it's genuine. Plus, his vote is on KMD, as per the most recent vote count. What's up with that? Did he forget where he's voting or is it a way to not do anything with his vote while looking like he is? I can't think of any town reason to leave your vote on someone you obviously aren't pushing.

And maybe I'm biased on this last part but his questions of me were pretty stupid and easily answered by looking at my iso. I have been pretty clear about where my thoughts are when I've been able to post. Just comes across as asking questions for the sake of it.

Speaking of questions, @Alpha: I'm sure if you think about it you can realize why giving out town reads on people no one is pushing anyway might be better for scum than town. If a town read of mine is facing a lot of pressure, that's when you'll hear about my town reads and probably not before. If this is a concern and meta is something you care about, I have done this in other games as well so feel free to stalk my posts.

[Varian-]

Blah.

UNVOTE: Tiershift

My head isn't really in the game right now due to reasons that have nothing to do with the game, sorry. So I don't have updated reads right now because I have barely looked at or thought about this game. Desperado me if you want, I guess, but I'm town.

[Varian-]

He is most likely telling the truth, Lex. If it were a fakeclaim, he risks being shot by the actual desperado. I doubted it for a sec too because the timing was sketchy as hell but I don't see why scum would fakeclaim it given the current game state.

And with Tier most likely being town I probably just need to reread the game entirely, cuz something is majorly off with my reads. Sorry my life is butts right now, I will get to it hopefully within the next 24 hours or so (but not right now, sometime when I can actually sit at a computer and have multiple tabs open and such).

[Varian-]

Prod dodge, life is hectic and I'm not sure when I can get to this. Hopefully soon.

[Varian-]

I'd vote temp or MM.

VOTE: Temp

Apologies for the inactivity, but things should hopefully be getting better now. I had some medical and familial issues come up that were more distracting than anticipated. I'm going to do a skim reread to make sure this is still a vote I'm ok with and hopefully get my head back into the game.

[Varian-]

VOTE: KT

Bleh.

[Varian-]

I'm on an actual computer for once!

I've been playing mafia/werewolf in various formats for six or seven years and I still suck, heh. I'm a little paranoid of the "town leader" archetype but I haven't seen anything that's made me suspect much KMD yet otherwise. And looking back, the KT/Alpha analysis looks spot on - KT kinda latched onto Alpha for lots of stupid little things and it doesn't look like a bus (and I'm not even sure that KT would be capable of bussing decently at that level of play, sorry bro).

260 came after a bunch of spamposts from KT that read from me as noobtown making an effort. I think my error came in giving too much of a pass for the newbieness.

Edos I've had down as town most of the game but is someone I feel like I haven't scrutinized very hard at all. I just haven't seen any red flags that made me take a closer look. Hopefully Mario is scum because I don't think I can argue my way out of getting lynched if it's between Edos and I with how inactive and generally busy I've been.

On the note of Mario, though, I think he sees the same thing in Edos that I do because he barely even touched him. From a Mario scum POV I'm clearly the easier target. But I hope I'm not overstepping any meta "don't comment on cases people make on you" bounds when I say calling my KT vote a "necessary bus" when I hammered hours before the deadline is reaching *really* hard to throw dirt on me. No, I didn't want to lynch KT. I thought he was town at the time. I'd already said I wanted to vote other targets. But as town when it's literal hours before deadline and no one else seems to be around who can hammer, you fucking hammer to avoid a no lynch, unless you're ... idk, masons with the wagon dude or something. And before then, I wasn't *trying* to leave the KT wagon, that was exactly what I was doing, because I didn't agree with it anymore. And I probably still wouldn't agree with it today if he was still alive and unflipped.

The "I was a counterwagon!" in 374 is one of those things that is *technically* correct but comes off as disingenuous. MM was not a counter wagon until after Temp was. Temp got saved (temporarily) by his claim and MM was only tertiary wagon of choice up until that point. I don't think it's at all out of the realm of possibility that scum could be the 1st and 3rd popular choices to get wagoned (and hell, I've seen scum be both 1st and 2nd before) and to try to say that he can't be scum because of it is skeevy as hell. But then I'm kinda biased at this point because mario is the only person I can really see as scum.

VOTE: Mario

I keep thinking that I should do a reread and assess Edos/KMD more thoroughly because it's something I would do if I were actually dedicated to being a good player but I'm way too lazy for that and it feels like work so I'm just going to make my peace with that. *shrug*

[Varian-]

*twiddles thumbs*

KMD, done any of that reading yet? Flow, post?

[Varian-]

Mario, I'm a guy. KMD, I hammered KT, not Mario.

I think in hindsight what happened with KT is that, because he was an obvious newbie, I set the bar for scumreading him a lot higher than I should have, because I've seen newbtown do some really scummy shit before that an experienced player wouldn't. (I.e. self voting, voting literally anyone who isn't themselves, appeal to emotion being some of the most common ones.) I was reading the early opportunism as scummy but when he showed up despite people suspecting him and made ten posts in a row or something, my read wavered because I expected new scum to try to lurk the attention away or post fluff/defensiveness rather than faking involvement. Looking back it wasn't even that good, but idk. I didn't bother reassessing my read on him after that point I don't think.

[Varian-]

Offsite. I've been playing mafia/werewolf several years off and on, mostly in person games at parties but sometimes on a forum. I've been familiar with the wiki and mafia discussion subforum for a while though, they're good resources.

The in person equivalent to fluff posting is distracting the group about something entirely irrelevant to the game but I figure for the most part the tells and strategies are analogous no matter where or how you play.

[Varian-]

I can't brain enough to do games right now but I have days off after today and so can hopefully get to this soon. Rough week. Sorry.