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Post #95 (isolation #2) » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:04 pm
Postby Marge »
I agreed with lane on post 60.
Anatole's unvote and reasoning looks like he is just making excuses. When I originally read Anatole's vote on ZZZX it read pretty fake. He was attacking ZZZX for 1 post when others where trying to be more serious he looked to be doing more joking around with his post. Add to that since his vote his scum read is now based on ZZZX attack on him, which is null. He also didn't explain why ZZZX lack of post was scummy. I think he is just holding onto that as an excuse.
My read of Anatole can be summed up in one simple picture.
In post 97, Marge wrote:I'm leaning on believing the claim.
Reading his post I see confusion. I would like to see more from him then just discussing the claim he made.
Okay, so what motive (even more so as town) do you think he would have to claim so easily?
So why would scum not kill him tonight to gain a day?
Lets think here...
In post 21, Flow Alpha wrote:At this point I have to admit my real role, I am the Vent which is a passive role. As long as I am alive I pipe out hallucinatory gas but if I die the gas will build up and cause hallucinations. This means the votes will all be jumbled and vote counts will be blacked out. Vote me with caution.
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Post #102 (isolation #5) » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:22 pm
Postby Marge »
Sorry I'm still learning the function around here.
Anyways I thought he was warning people to vote him because it could cause the town harm is how I read the post I quoted.
Afterwards it just reads as well I screwed up here. All it does is give scum a heads up.
In post 102, Marge wrote:Anyways I thought he was warning people to vote him because it could cause the town harm is how I read the post I quoted.
Afterwards it just reads as well I screwed up here. All it does is give scum a heads up.
Yeah, what I worry about is the fact he had very little pressure to say that.
I still think a jester role, scum would have no reason to make a claim and then expect us to believe that they survived the night.
However, I think Flow likes to joke a lot, so could also be that? (Claimed 4 man hydra in a game with me and then was replaced due to inactivity, I believe).
I'll keep that in mind. Maybe he is just good at lying.
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Post #113 (isolation #7) » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:03 pm
Postby Marge »
In post 107, GuiltyLion wrote:The thing with Flow Alpha's claim is that it only hurts town by claiming it, because scum can NK him and scramble the votes / skip a night. If he survives a few days then he's probably scum lying, but until then his claim is probably true. Vedith is spot on in 104.
This wagon on Anatole is terrible, it is ridiculous to assume he actually wanted me lynched based off of one post. If my reaction gave him town vibes, then his unvote and move to ZZZX makes sense. If there's scum on the wagon I think it's either ZZZX or Marge.
VOTE: ZZZX
Anatole's vote on you didn't read serious but neither did his vote on ZZZX.
It looks like he is just trying hard.
GuiltyLion wrote:was that a fucking hammer?
Yes. L-1 was mentioned.
I'm pretty neutral with that hammer since Anatole play read scummy to me. Not sure why you think he isn't
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Post #116 (isolation #8) » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:34 pm
Postby Marge »
In post 114, GuiltyLion wrote:I never said he isn't scum, I just think 20 posts from him isn't enough to have a strong read and that hammering 5 pages into the game is ridiculous.
You were calling players scummy for voting him.
I get that it's page 5 but his back and forth with verdith I just saw someone not trying to get reads and came off as defensive when lane brought up his post and reasoning.
In post 115, lane0168 wrote:It's flow new here or something? Or just pulling an ika...
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Post #134 (isolation #12) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:55 am
Postby Marge »
In post 131, GuiltyLion wrote:Well I am townreading Lane at the time, I liked his aggressive lines of questioning and 51 struck me as a particularly insightful pro-town point. Vedith I thought was likely town due to 71 and his subsequent back and forth with Anatole, as well as his callout of L-1. So since I had two townleans on the wagon, I was looking at the other two.
ZZZX's vote was basically an OMGUS, not really strongly indicative of alignment, I have basically a nullread there. So he could still be scum.
Your vote came along with this reasoning:
In post 95, Marge wrote:Anatole's unvote and reasoning looks like he is just making excuses. When I originally read Anatole's vote on ZZZX it read pretty fake. He was
attacking
ZZZX for 1 post when others where trying to be more serious he looked to be doing more joking around with his post. Add to that since his vote his scum read is now based on ZZZX attack on him, which is null. He also didn't explain why ZZZX lack of post was scummy. I think he is just holding onto that as an excuse.
Which is pretty reachy. The vote on ZZZX didn't seem fake to me at all, it's obvious Anatole was satisfied with my response to pressure and wanted to look at someone who was on my wagon. Next, "attacking" is way too strong of a word for Anatole's post. This whole paragraph is extremely uncharitable and you weren't very cautious at putting Anatole to L-1, both of which make my scumdar start to beep a little bit. I voted ZZZX because I thought I could get more out of pushing on him at the time, considering Anatole had also voted him.
Keep in mind though all of these reads are rather weak because we barely had time to discuss anything yesterday.
Well I saw Anatole's push on you and then sudden vote on ZZZX because low posting as reachy.
That said I think ZZZX staying low and saying nothing else is suspect. The hammer could be scum or town so I'm going to wait on flow.
I agree with your town read on Lane there.
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Post #135 (isolation #13) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:58 am
Postby Marge »
Flow Alpha
lane0168
Davsto
GuiltyLion
ZZZX
Shiro
Just wanted this in my iso because I see more players then others and forget about those not around. Should be 2 scum with the amount of players I think.
So with what I see I'm looking more toward ZZZX and Shiro but the claim by Flow makes no sense given the amount of players in the game. It would almost be an auto win for scum I would think.
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Post #203 (isolation #23) » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:41 am
Postby Marge »
While I don't disagree with dav's thought I'm not ready to out guess the mod.
I agree with lane about shiro' reaction considering others voted flow and he said nothing then about the votes.
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Post #211 (isolation #24) » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:25 am
Postby Marge »
In post 210, GuiltyLion wrote:Don't like the push on Shiro. Post didn't look fake to me at all.
I still think it's more likely Flow is a jester than either scum or beloved princess, but I do agree with the idea that if Flow is what he says he is, then town must have some kind of powerful counter to help compensate for losing a "night" (day in most games) entirely. I'd really rather push on other people for now, even if he is scum then he has a partner.
It is confusing why he didn't die though, if he's not scum then maybe scum figured he'd be an easy lynch?
Scumpool for me (ignoring the Flow nebula of confusion) is {Davsto, Marge, ZZZX}. Davsto/Marge seemed fine to throw shade on Shiro without asking for followup or moving their votes to a less convenient target than Flow.
Flow
- so when you die does anything happen to the vote counts?
In post 203, Marge wrote:I agree with lane about shiro' reaction considering others voted flow and he said nothing then about the votes.
Which votes in which posts? This feels like a reach/misrep.
VOTE: Marge
Dav and lanes vote at the start of the day was on flow.
Now explain how it's a stretch at all.
In post 212, Marge wrote:If you think shiro' comment was sincere, guilty lion, why did he get only outraged on my comment and not the votes placed on flow prior to my comment?
My thinking was that Flow only doubled down on his claim after Lane pressed him about it more. Lane had already unvoted Flow and Davsto hadn't posted yet since. So the two "votes" were really just Davsto's leftover vote from when Flow tried to justify his hammer. You were the first one to say you still wanted to lynch Flow, after he reiterated his initial claim from page 1.
You're acting like Shiro is nitpicking at you, but there's no reason Shiro should have been focusing on those other two votes beforehand because they came under an entirely different context, and one of them was already retracted. Your reaction feels both defensive and like it's reaching to assign scum-motivation to Shiro.
Not sure if you missed it or what but flow already claimed day 1 to be a beloved princess
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Post #227 (isolation #27) » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:31 am
Postby Marge »
Oh wait no you seem to think shiro missed the claim or something?
It's not like the guy is going to claim something different from the "mistake" he made
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Post #228 (isolation #28) » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:34 am
Postby Marge »
On a side note maybe it's me but I mentioned the votes from others onto flow and guilty lion has this sudden theory that should clear shiro who has not even defended himself
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Post #229 (isolation #29) » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:41 am
Postby Marge »
Haha I totally missed page 9.
Someone not reading the thread reads town to guilty lion apparently.
But the reaction from shiro was fake still because again others voted for flow, he acknowledged those votes on flow but doesn't question those voting flow.
You expect me to believe a player reacted to almost wanting to vote vs actual votes?
That's crazy or scummy thinking lion
In post 226, Marge wrote:Not sure if you missed it or what but flow already claimed day 1 to be a beloved princess
people lie on D1 all the time, and then Shiro claimed to have missed it.
In post 229, Marge wrote:But the reaction from shiro was fake still because again others voted for flow, he acknowledged those votes on flow but doesn't question those voting flow.
I already told you, those votes were pre-Flow doubling down on the claim, and one of them was already unvoted. You're misrepping pretty hard here, Shiro never acknowledged the votes on Flow.
Happier with my vote by the second.
Yes he did.
In post 169, Shiro wrote:I dun see flow as scum, too much of a lynchbait. Unless this is some strange draw all the attention plan to make us thing he wouldn't do it as scum I would think he is town. Dun thik he is a good vote today.
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Post #234 (isolation #32) » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:13 pm
Postby Marge »
Vote: lion
The wking is just too much. I can't see town thinking there is anything wrong with what's been pointed out.
Add that to that the theory me made up, calling players scummy for what is clearly an overreaction to a comment and misreprensting mutiple times things saying it didn't happen, almost like he should be believed instead of looking for himself.
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Post #238 (isolation #34) » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:28 pm
Postby Marge »
Just showing a bit what I'm referring to.
In post 210, GuiltyLion wrote:Don't like the push on Shiro. Post didn't look fake to me at all.
I still think it's more likely Flow is a jester than either scum or beloved princess, but I do agree with the idea that if Flow is what he says he is, then town must have some kind of powerful counter to help compensate for losing a "night" (day in most games) entirely. I'd really rather push on other people for now, even if he is scum then he has a partner.
It is confusing why he didn't die though, if he's not scum then maybe scum figured he'd be an easy lynch?
Scumpool for me (ignoring the Flow nebula of confusion) is {Davsto, Marge, ZZZX}. Davsto/Marge seemed fine to throw shade on Shiro without asking for followup or moving their votes to a less convenient target than Flow.
Flow
- so when you die does anything happen to the vote counts?
In post 203, Marge wrote:I agree with lane about shiro' reaction considering others voted flow and he said nothing then about the votes.
Which votes in which posts? This feels like a reach/misrep.
VOTE: Marge
First vote he says I'm stretching for a scum read on something that happened in the game.
In post 212, Marge wrote:If you think shiro' comment was sincere, guilty lion, why did he get only outraged on my comment and not the votes placed on flow prior to my comment?
My thinking was that Flow only doubled down on his claim after Lane pressed him about it more. Lane had already unvoted Flow and Davsto hadn't posted yet since. So the two "votes" were really just Davsto's leftover vote from when Flow tried to justify his hammer. You were the first one to say you still wanted to lynch Flow, after he reiterated his initial claim from page 1.
You're acting like Shiro is nitpicking at you, but there's no reason Shiro should have been focusing on those other two votes beforehand because they came under an entirely different context, and one of them was already retracted. Your reaction feels both defensive and like it's reaching to assign scum-motivation to Shiro.
Then he has this made up theory before shiro says anything.
In post 226, Marge wrote:Not sure if you missed it or what but flow already claimed day 1 to be a beloved princess
people lie on D1 all the time, and then Shiro claimed to have missed it.
In post 229, Marge wrote:But the reaction from shiro was fake still because again others voted for flow, he acknowledged those votes on flow but doesn't question those voting flow.
I already told you, those votes were pre-Flow doubling down on the claim, and one of them was already unvoted. You're misrepping pretty hard here, Shiro never acknowledged the votes on Flow.
Happier with my vote by the second.
Again making another remark that is untrue to defend shiro.
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Post #239 (isolation #35) » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:32 pm
Postby Marge »
In post 237, GuiltyLion wrote:You can't accuse me of WKing and then also being on a scumteam with Shiro. And I'm pointing out that it was scummy of you to casually suggest Shiro is scum for weak reasons without interacting with Shiro or moving your vote. THAT'S what's scummy.
remember when you posted a meme about Anatole? How'd that push turn out for you?
And you keep ignoring the key point - there was ONE vote on Flow at the time Shiro posted, and it was from Davsto pre-Flow-claiming-D2. That's entirely different than you saying you want to vote Flow
after
Flow doubled down on his claim.
To say Shiro is "ignoring votes" on Flow is a misrep. That's what's scummy. The reason your reaction is different than Lane's is because Lane immediately asks Shiro about this inconsistency and voted her. That's a town reaction. You, on the other hand, just sheep Lane in saying it was scummy, but don't bother to vote or add any of your own opinions. That's what scum does.
Lane
, yes, I agree Shiro either missed or didn't comment on those claims. But think about it on a deeper level - do you think scum!Shiro would really choose not to comment on it the first time, and then decide to only push on it after Marge makes a comment after the 4th claim? It'd be blatantly obvious that their push isn't consistent with how players were treating the claim beforehand. Shiro is getting called out on it. How does that benefit scum!Shiro?
You guys just take something that someone does that you don't understand and assume it must be coming from scum. That's a poor way to scumhunt and will lead to townies getting lynched.
I explained further.
Just because you ignore post blanetly, as I already have shown, doesn't mean they do not exist.
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Post #244 (isolation #37) » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:39 pm
Postby Marge »
In post 242, GuiltyLion wrote:also it's convenient now that I can be scum in Marge's POV regardless of what Marge thinks of Shiro's alignment.
I'd be more surprised if anyone was town reading you as you just bypassed my whole case into the only thing you can fight against.
But that is what scum does.
remember when you posted a meme about Anatole? How'd that push turn out for you?
And you keep ignoring the key point - there was ONE vote on Flow at the time Shiro posted, and it was from Davsto pre-Flow-claiming-D2. That's entirely different than you saying you want to vote Flow
after
Flow doubled down on his claim.
To say Shiro is "ignoring votes" on Flow is a misrep. That's what's scummy. The reason your reaction is different than Lane's is because Lane immediately asks Shiro about this inconsistency and voted her. That's a town reaction. You, on the other hand, just sheep Lane in saying it was scummy, but don't bother to vote or add any of your own opinions. That's what scum does.
Lane
, yes, I agree Shiro either missed or didn't comment on those claims. But think about it on a deeper level - do you think scum!Shiro would really choose not to comment on it the first time, and then decide to only push on it after Marge makes a comment after the 4th claim? It'd be blatantly obvious that their push isn't consistent with how players were treating the claim beforehand. Shiro is getting called out on it. How does that benefit scum!Shiro?
You guys just take something that someone does that you don't understand and assume it must be coming from scum. That's a poor way to scumhunt and will lead to townies getting lynched.
Fun facts of the Mafia scum search engine. town lion talking about sheeping in another game
So him saying I'm sheeping a read and not explaining is a lie and him finding sheeping scummy in general is a lie.
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Post #248 (isolation #39) » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:20 pm
Postby Marge »
In post 246, GuiltyLion wrote:Marge how is that post in any way relevant to this conversation? It's not that you sheeped lane, it's that you encouraged his idea that Shiro was scummy without ever voting or interacting with Shiro yourself.
And look! I scumread Kop for the exact same thing in the
very post that you linked to
!
In post 461, GuiltyLion wrote:I don't really see consistent behavior here. Kop has voted for Not_Mafia, Vedith,
encouraged a Fox lynch without ever voting it
, then back to Not_Mafia, now onto ASP.
You realize by the time I posted he shiro already posted his comments.
I again already stated my oppinion
Nothing is going to change those 2 facts in this game.
GuiltyLion wrote:Marge: do you think Shiro is scum? Yes or no answer.
Tell you what.
I asked you about a town read on shiro you never responded to.
When you feel the need to respond to my question I asked many pages ago.
I'll completely responses to your misleading question.
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Post #252 (isolation #40) » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:14 am
Postby Marge »
In post 237, GuiltyLion wrote:You can't accuse me of WKing and then also being on a scumteam with Shiro. And I'm pointing out that it was scummy of you to casually suggest Shiro is scum for weak reasons without interacting with Shiro or moving your vote. THAT'S what's scummy.
While scum lion thinks about why shiro is a town read I'm going to go over this point.
Earily in day 2 I did interact with shiro and called him a liar about having no reads.
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Post #278 (isolation #42) » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:41 am
Postby Marge »
In post 257, GuiltyLion wrote:so Marge you think Shiro is scum and that I am the partner. Why would I defend my partner so obviously? That's literally terrible scum play.
My case on Marge: calling other people scummy without poking at them or voting them is a scummy thing to do because it creates a general narrative that a person is scum without you having to be tied to that narrative. Marge isn't trying to solve the game, she's just pushing people as scum for doing things she doesn't like. Her point that Shiro is scum because 'why call me out when there were vote
S
on Flow' is both a misrep and defensive.
Marge's case on me: I defended someone I'm townreading that she thinks is scum, therefore I am the scumbuddy.
Tell you what.
I asked you about a town read on shiro you never responded to.
When you feel the need to respond to my question I asked many pages ago.
I'll completely responses to your misleading question.[/quote]
@lane: I've seen lion blantantly ignore the counter points I've made and I can't see any town motivation for that.
It's not anger, or some attitude issue. He just repeated his issue again all while ignoring that I interacted with shiro and stated views before anyone else.
I've seen scum do it more often then town.
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Post #279 (isolation #43) » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:43 am
Postby Marge »
I mean I'd love is some else aske lion why he is town reading shiro so hard. Maybe then he might be forced to finally respond since I think it's fake.
This is regardless to my feelings about shiro.
- please do not hammer Flow unless Marge or Flow takes a vote off of me. I have a mechanic with my role that comes into play if I enter "day" phase with more than one vote on me and I'd rather avoid that.
@Marge, @Flow, if we're not gonna lynch me then it helps town if one of you takes a vote off of me.
1) I think your town read on shiro is fake, which I said. You can tell me you can't explain it, I say it doesn't exsist.
2) if your claim is true what did you day 1
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Post #318 (isolation #45) » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:12 pm
Postby Marge »
In post 304, GuiltyLion wrote:Yeah it kind of hurts town if I have to explain which is why I avoided bringing it up for the most part. It shouldn't really matter (especially after today), just know that it hurts town if I have 2 or more votes when somebody else gets lynched.
I got super
lucky
D1 when flow was the quickhammer hah.
I'm more okay with lynching flow since he admitted he lied about the vote scrambling thing, but no one seems really opposed to it which is weird.
In post 308, lane0168 wrote:Anyways marge, whata ya think? Take your vote off for the greater good?
If he was telling the truth about some weak princess role then why no push on flow after his claim?
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Post #333 (isolation #49) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:20 am
Postby Marge »
In post 331, GuiltyLion wrote:oh look, I was right about Shiro being town. Maybe now you'll believe me about ZZZX being town too.
Scum definitely bussed Flow Alpha, the question is which bus was most likely to be scum. Davsto essentially guaranteed he'd be the lynch, which is preeettyyy likely to be town, but I wouldn't rule it out as a bus completely. Lane stuck on Flow most of the day too and remains my strongest townread. Marge didn't vote him initially and tried to make Shiro look scummy for ignoring Dav and Lane votes. She's still my top scumpick.
VOTE: Marge
Oh look the player that never explains why a player is town.
Never cc even day 1 after flow's claim and was scum reading zzx day 2
So what is your plan for tomorrow when I'm dead!
You going to claim your "ability"?
Or keep lying?
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Post #338 (isolation #52) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:29 am
Postby Marge »
In post 337, GuiltyLion wrote:Investigated Shiro n1 because 55 was a super sketchy looking post.
Investigated ZZZX n2 because he's a lurksack and had no chance of dying last night.
I trust myself to get my scumreads lynched, so I investigate players that I'm null on or doubting my townread. I don't investigate my scumreads.
Look, if anyone doubts my claim, then you should deal with me in LYLO. Lynching a claimed cop before then is mathematically an incorrect play because it only widens your scumpool and guarantees ZZZX dies tonight. Voting a cop claim is hilariously anti-town.
Okay if that's true ill go with Davsto as final scum.
But don't expect me by it without a full claim or you explaining a lack of cc in regards to flow
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Post #376 (isolation #57) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:17 am
Postby Marge »
Dear god I got homie showing me some crazy video and I lost my train of thought.
I'm sharing it too.
On a complete related game, I was a bit paranoid about lion and thought he was using the claim for a scum win, especially when his response is that zzzx would be dead tomorrow rather then a cop.
That thinking made no sense.
Dav claims and backs down quickly to lion and is pretty vague when asked about his reads.
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Post #382 (isolation #59) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:05 pm
Postby Marge »
In post 381, lane0168 wrote:Wait what? Marge is farside? Nobody made me aware of this.
Anyways I'm torn between davsto and marge. Generally I think it's marge because of davstos hard core push of flow, so it pretty much seems to be game over... marge today. Should be davsto, me, and zzzx tomorrow, and in that case it's davsto. But I don't think it'd get to that point anyways
I maybe an alt but I'm not scum.
Don't know if you modded a game before but 3 investation roles in a micro is a hell fucking no.
I'm just trying to figure out if it's dav or lion.
You can lynch me if you want.
I'm just a vt anyways.