Micro 553: ETL's Double Day Unlimited (Game Over)

[RadiantCowbells]

Confirming as miller.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Tere

She's evil D:

[RadiantCowbells]

But... I'm a he.

And I do love you <3

[RadiantCowbells]

Marry me

[RadiantCowbells]

I read the rules before now and I'm reading it again and I don't see any secret question.
>.>

[RadiantCowbells]

...Oh goddamnit you're awful :\

[RadiantCowbells]

I READ THE RULES LIKE 10 TIMES BECAUSE OF YOU I WILL HAVE YOU KNOW

[RadiantCowbells]

Everyone needs to vote Tere so she can prove whether or not she's town.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, usually when I get voted up I spaz out and insult the people voting me ups' intelligences and make insinuations that their mothers are sexually promiscuous.

[RadiantCowbells]

Maybe we should just get a room and sort it out amongst ourselves~

[RadiantCowbells]

You convince ETL to change the game mechanics and we're all set!

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Kublai Khan

He's posted 90% "Like me because I'm likeable!" fluff and made a pre-excuse for later scummy play. That's good mafia ground-work right there.

Where/how do you get a town impression?

Methinks someone is threatened by my affable towniness.

[RadiantCowbells]

[/quote]Affability ≠ towniness. Affability is something con men do to gain people's trust. I have a negative view towards affability.

Do something town and I'll think you're town. Hint: don't OMGUS-vote.[/quote]

I forgot I was put on god's green earth to make you think that I'm town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I have an impression that you're a useless sack of shit but besides that, nada.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright I'm done.

replace me please

I don't want to play with you.

[RadiantCowbells]

I hope when you find out that my slot was town you reconsider your horrible attitude towards me having any fun whatsoever.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not playing with someone who dismissed my attempt to be friendly as "like me because I'm so likeable fluff".

That's an invitation to several weeks of hell.

Thanks for the game everyone else!

[RadiantCowbells]

Final thought before leaving: WickedJester is probably scum.

VOTE: unvote all
VOTE: WickedJestr

[RadiantCowbells]

Eh, I don't feel like leaving anymore. Call me scum bluffing if you must.

I'm pretty sure Jestr is scum based off of the rapid change of tone between his posts, if he was scum I'd expect him to have reacted more uniformly.

I'll fill in the blanks more later.

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE: all

VOTE: RC

I don't buy the temper tantrum personally. As town I would think they wouldn't care about that push, where as scum I could see them realizing they'll never out play that suspicion and they are no longer bothered.

It was also a threat thrown in there almost like they thought by replacing out a it could reset the slot's reads and allow the next person a better start.

This is a chainsaw vote.

[RadiantCowbells]

I hope when you find out that my slot was town you reconsider your horrible attitude towards me having any fun whatsoever.

You do realize that the goal of this game (and a rule on this website) is to play to win. Fun is secondary to achieving that goal.

You warned that you get nasty when you get voted and unfortunately it seems you were telling the truth. Your hissy fit rage quit, with subsequent quick retraction doesn't move me to think of you (or your slot) as town. At best it's null, at worst it's manipulative.

Right now you've stated you have no observations/notes/comments about anyone else's play and you've done nothing except either ingratiate yourself towards town or get really angry that someone doesn't think of you as town. Going with the theory that scum will best try to stay alive and win by looking town. I'm going to say that you are scum.

I have some doubts because this seems entirely too easy. But I don't have any stronger leads at this point.

No, I can handle being voted perfectly fine.

Contrary to what you seem to think I got a ton of alignment indicative information from my friendly-mode opener, particularly on Tere who I now consider highly likely to be town.

You were dismissive and rude about it and I find your playstyle both jarring and unpleasant.

Regardless, I'm fairly sure you're town so I'm just going to ignore you from this point on and lynch scum so I don't have to deal with you anymore.

If you do manage to lynch me, realize that for all your narcissistic "MUST PLAY MAFIA 100% BY THE BOOK NO DEVIATION" you were the one with the bad reads.

Kirk out.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm going to side VOTE: Kaboose for the reason I outlined.

[RadiantCowbells]

Con is probably town then. The (tbqh, dont mean to be rude) stupid inquisition can stop.

Vote: Wicked

What the hell are you referring to by buddying between Con and Kaboose buddying?

Did you or did you not realize that was a hammer?

[RadiantCowbells]

How the eff do we know for sure Con is town

What are you even SAYING right now?

Alright that's it I'm resolved never to join a hydra again.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh boy...

[RadiantCowbells]

I actually meant I was watching CMM but yeah.

[RadiantCowbells]

Watching Lhix* but yeah.

[RadiantCowbells]

See this is so fucking frustrating because I know that Jestr's scum but sometimes it's impossible for me to put into words.

He's so fucking formal and rote and not fluid about it and it's fake as hell.

Why the change?

Also, you ignored 87 and 88.

And why are you voting me?

See this.

Like, he makes a logical point. There's a logical sequence to follow.

But there's no feeling and no effort to directly tie it to the game.

Like, town in that situation would be all casting

Jestr's listing off things that I'm doing / have done that can be construed as scummy but he doesn't really tie it all together, doesn't put a bow up on it and finalize it.

He just lists scummy things about me and calls it a day because there isn't that extra step of him being town and thinking that I'm scum that brings it all together into his thought process.

Instead, he's scum and is just listing off things that are scummy because it justifies a vote without any of the feeling or discovery that town play brings with it, because it's an action, by rote.

Him listing off the scummy things is its own end as you can see by his play, and that's not town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, town in that situation would be all casting out with feeling about how the dude who is random voting him is scum or why the fuck are you doing that or are you a great big fool or something

[RadiantCowbells]

Why don't you agree? And why are you suggesting that this shpiel is Wickedest specific?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, there's no depth, nothing going on beneath the surface.

In town play you can see things in their posts about the way they're feeling that they don't say outright.

For example:

This isn't sound logic at all...

Kublai read Kaboose at town. That's evident from the post.

There's nothing directly useful about this post, and it doesn't fully encompass Kublai's thought process. It's just a piece of it, and you can see that in Kublai's play.

There's absolutely nothing going on beneath the surface, no deeper thought process, and his different posts (particularly his me scum -> farewell speech) are incredibly discordant and I can't see them coming from the same, town source.

[RadiantCowbells]

WickedJestr just has these things he says but they don't

mean

anything, is what I'm trying to get at.

[RadiantCowbells]

I disagree with you, but be that as it may:

what are your reads on myself & Tere?

[RadiantCowbells]

There is going to be mandatory unvoting and revoting of Wickedest so that I can be at the front of the wagon, thank you.

VOTE: WickedestJestr

I put "scum-slippy" in quotes for a reason, because I know it's not the entirely appropriate word but it encapsulates at least part of what you were insinuating. You can also put in "inconsistency" or "contradiction" but I know what you're driving at: Radiant was talking to Khan like he knew he was town and he was voting him. And I still think it's pretty forced.

Well, it's true. I was quite sure that Kublai was town at the point I was voting him, but that wasn't why I was voting him.

I'd think that my follow through should have confirmed that.

I get what you're saying. It's a scum move to point at evidence and note the weirdness of it, but then let a town snap the final piece in place, lead the lynch mob, and ultimately suffer the blame/morale-blow. Like a responsibility-dodge.

That's not really what I mean but if it gets you to vote Jestr then I'm not going to bite the hand that feeds me scum lynches.

[RadiantCowbells]

Are you from Epic Mafia? Because you were very quick to hammer Kaboose. Usually on Mafiascum we spend about a week or two deciding who to lynch each day. With the time/ability to have thorough arguments, it is important to make the most of the time that we are given. Your quick hammer wasted a lot of potential for meaningful discussion.

now THAT is a sick burn.

[RadiantCowbells]

I owe this a response but I'm just ugh atm.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think Lhix got banned.

Wish I could be more helpful here, I'm reading and I'll muster the energy to make a massive post at some point.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't like the ConMan wagon and I suspect it's scum led.

Still could definitely see Jestr scum and I'm starting to wonder about TTH.

[RadiantCowbells]

That's how I feel about it and my feelings are usually spot on.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, those two votes are my two biggest scumreads at the moment.

So I can see why I'd feel that way.

[RadiantCowbells]

it's funny how some distance makes everything seem small.

[RadiantCowbells]

Papa Zito, it's been a while, you were in my very first game on this site.

ohshit that's right

man that was a great game

RC and/or PZ, can either of you explain your town read on Kublai?

Yeah he was clearly trying to solve the puzzle. He was delving into things and hitting the correct notes. I can give specifics if you want but that's the gist of it.

Our conman tho, is like, the exact opposite.

ALSO

If there's a vig in the house (probably not, but) Prohawk would not be a wasted bullet, tia.

max dumbtell.

Yeah, I'm pretty damn confident that CMM is town here.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, well my uncle killed himself and I just got back from the funeral so I'm not really sorry for not being town carry no. 1 nor in the best emotional state this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

The first two pages are just sexual tension between Tere and Radiant. Good lord.

No sexual tension. Just references to a prior game.

Tere is both married and many years older than me

[RadiantCowbells]

Well, there's definitely something wrong with trying to get with married women.

I've been approached by cougars before

[RadiantCowbells]

Prohawk pinging me as town here.

[RadiantCowbells]

All about the Wicked stick.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not going on a suspect #2 or doing much of anything till I get an opportunity to fully reread the game.

That's probably gonna be Sunday or something.

[RadiantCowbells]

Prohawk wagon is OK though I'm still townreading him.

I might reread that slot when I get a chance.

[RadiantCowbells]

I like Rob for town as well.

My major scumpile right now is Papa/TTH/MAYBE Prohawk

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm going to VOTE: TTH for now.

Tomorrow and onward I'll be able to commit more time to this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Papa Zito

not really feeling Prohawk too much atm.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll hammer ProHawk at deadline to avoid a NL or a CMM lynch.

Otherwise, nada.

[RadiantCowbells]

Eh, I'm pretty sure either both scum are on CMM already or you're the last scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

We can flashwagon something else if you follow me onto it.

I might not have the strength of will to wall of text something but I'm not really able to just give up on getting a better lynch yet.

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE: Zito

I don't like the way people are moving around it

[RadiantCowbells]

I would strongly advise you to do otherwise, assuming that you're town.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: RC

I can't make the effort this game needs.

bye.

[RadiantCowbells]

Again, I recommend looking at RC's fake blow-up. He "replaces out" over nothing at 1am or so, then comes back at 8am and announces he's staying in the game. There was zero risk of being replaced between 1am and 8am. The mod wouldn't be online, and even if she was, there's no way she'd be able to confirm a replacement in those hours. It was a very low-risk play for scum, and it was designed to remove pressure. It worked.

When you find out that I'm town and you decided that me flipping out under the circumstances had to have been a tactical scum maneuver, one that scum!RC would never have made or needed to make, I hope you give yourself a gigantic kick in the pants.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'd say something about Antihero as well but you already know how I feel about you.

[RadiantCowbells]

They voted me first. I'm just returning the favour.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, there's 3 people discussing lynching Papa Zito.

I am voting 2 of them and have been gradually warming to a lynch on the third.

I don't think it's at all out of the ordinary for me to get cold feet about that lynch under those conditions.

Plus, Antihero is not known for having decent reads, so.

You're not going to mention anything about CMM's vote being opportunistic as fucking shit?

VOTE: unvote

[RadiantCowbells]

Yes, I think he's scummy as fuck for it.

I don't like how he ignored me when I had le towncred and then as soon as public opinion shifted he started to push on me.

I also don't like the associatives between the two of you and I think the scumteam could easily be CMM/youreslf here.

UNVOTE: RadiantBellCows

[RadiantCowbells]

Yes, town do often opportunistically vote people to avoid getting lynched themselves.

The specific way that CMM did it there, not something I like at all.

What's your read on me?

[RadiantCowbells]

That's reasonable I guess.

No, I just feel like if he was town he would have said it somehow differently.

which shows a completely different scum pool. That tells me that your reads aren't very strong in this game, because that's 5/7 players that you are suspecting. Given this lack of confidence, why is it a problem that Papa Zito is getting votes from two of the other players that you find suspicious?

I had forgotten about you.

I mean I guess, I'm definitely scumreading a ton of people, but my reads aren't overly strong right now.

With that being the case, I don't want to be the person who creates a new wagon right before the end of the day, particularly when I'm already not necessarily townreading either of the primary wagons.

[RadiantCowbells]

TTH is scummy as shit and mentioned liking the vote.
CMM wasn't one of my major scumreads but I abhor the way he voted him.
You are (were? I like you over the last few pages) one of my major scumreads and are voting him.

Papa Zito has done nothing to make me lose a scumread, correct, but I get a bad feeling about the way people are moving around it and a scum flip from several others could make Papa basically confirmed town.

I don't want to lynch him today.

[quote]Why did you decide to un-vote yourself?/quote]

I'm not feeling quite as salty right now as I was at the time.

[RadiantCowbells]

Self voted then un-voted, yes. Self hammered, yes. Including once as doc.

I've replaced out of one game before, ever, and that was because there was serious drama between one of the players and myself.

Then again, I've never been in similar circumstances IRL.

[RadiantCowbells]

The fact that the only people who supported it were scumreads of mine?

And that a few of them struck (specifically CMM) struck me as him just wanting to push the wagon away from him.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: ConManMick
VOTE: ProHawk

I feel like I should be throwing my vote down there at this time.

Both of these are at L-1 at this point.

[RadiantCowbells]

In fact.

VOTE: unvote Prohawk

I want CMM.

[RadiantCowbells]

I've paid a ton of attention to that, and the oddness of his quick jump to me plus his jump for attention that accompanied it.

It was very grab for attentiony, huh?

[RadiantCowbells]

Several different times and in several different ways.

[RadiantCowbells]

Antihero: "BUT IF CONMANS SCUM YOU'RE MORE SCUM WITH HIM YOU B-BAKA!"

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: CMM

Or Anti.

[RadiantCowbells]

Let's make a deal.

I'm positive that the scumteam is Anti/CMM right now.

How about we lynch in the 3 of us, and if you lynch me then you have to lynch one of them after.

Does that sound fair?

[RadiantCowbells]

I have little else to say.

We're not lynching Papa Zito though. He's town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm pretty comfortable just saying that of all of the games I'm playing this is the one I'm least interested because of how weak the town players are.

Rob and Papa are town. It's 2 of {CMM,

Hey Rob. You know when I play the 'good little townie' game that you're jumping on me for not playing? when I'm scum. only then.

[RadiantCowbells]

Care to explain why?

Oh, wait. I forgot the entire scum team has a post restriction against that in this game.

Your last post with the word "Zito" in it was 490, where you said you had a scumread on him but didn't like the wagon for some reason. Now he's obvtown? What?

Go ahead and lose the game for town.

just don't involve me in it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hammering who?

Me? Zito?

Fantastic choice of lynches there.

And I'm mostly done with exams so you're going to find lynching me to be a far more difficult prospect than it was.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm pretty comfortable just saying that of all of the games I'm playing this is the one I'm least interested because of how weak the town players are.

I'm sure you would rebuke your attackers in this way as either alignment. And for what it's worth, you've made your lack of interest pretty clear to us.

I asked you earlier but you ignored me: if you really lack interest, why haven't you replaced out? Because this is the third time that you've expressed significant disinterest yet you remain in the game. The purpose of the game is to have fun and it doesn't seem like you're having fun. Furthermore, your lack of presence and your disrespectful attitude (going out of your way to call us weak) is not conducive to a fun game for the rest of us. Does that matter to you?

VOTE: WickedestJestr

I mean I could still do this if only because it would make PoEing the rest super easy.

We're not lynching Zito. Rob, please vote someone who could actually flip scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Anti/CMM/Jestr

I'm voting both scum.

If Anti is town, I can't wait to trash talk the shit out of your reads.

Just like in Arsonist mafia, eh? You being an idiot pushing on me while I had the scumteam pegged from D1.

[RadiantCowbells]

CMM is 100% scum. I'm not positive who the other is.

I've been going back and forth between Anti and Jestr, but I'm mostly leaning Anti, however, WickedJestr's 581 strikes me as scum talking to town.

I've seen scum make posts like that to town players many, many times.

[RadiantCowbells]

Rob, how do I get you off of Zito?

[RadiantCowbells]

Lack of content doesn't make anyone scum.

You're essentially telling me that you're scumreading myself and Papa Zito because of our lack of conformity to your perceived mafia norm of an extremely dry, good little townie meta.

If this was your first game ever, I'd be somewhat okay with that. It's not, so you should know better.

[RadiantCowbells]

And Papa, you fucking unvote Rob now.

[RadiantCowbells]

i know

i'm such a bitch

quiet scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

i know

i'm such a bitch

quiet scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

2) I do not consider this, as site rules are clear on not playing to wincon. If I cannot assume town plays to wincon, scum hunting is impossible.

This basically says that there's a wide swath of players, myself included, whom you will perpetually lose with and then blame them.

I am not going to play any differently because you insist that I must be rigorously game focused at all time and neither will a lot of people.

Papa's being a world class dork, maybe, but he's doing so in a townie way. I don't see any attempt to avoid pressure being made by him.

There's plenty of ways to read people that don't require them to be attempting to convince everyone to follow your wagon, and if you can't function outside of such a meta after 3 years on site I have little but bewilderment to answer you with.

Like, how do you expect Anti to be lynched if you don't persuade others and no-one agrees merely by looking at Anti's play? Do you think a wagon will just magically appear if you keep making offhand quips like the above?

Eh, I'm fairly sure that when Papa Zito flips town that you will reconsider that I'm right and the one person who is town between CMM/Jestr/Anti may see the light and help me.

Otherwise, who knows.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean it's not exactly pleasant for me to sit and watch my two townreads going off on each other for days.

And between exams, personal shit, etc., I don't really have the energy to play MS meta case building.

Besides, I'm not good at it. I'm better at finding town than scum anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

I've already explained why I think Jestr's scum multiple times so I'll focus on the Antihero/CMM thing.

When CMM wagon is in full swing, guy's at L-1, this is what Anti says.

i took a quick peek at some recent conman games. he's always low key and it looks like a frequent mislynch so this it's not an easy sort.

but we have prohawk here who knows conman's going to flip scum and trying to tie whoever he can to it (and has been the whole game) AND telling everyone how innocent he is b/c of the counterwagon so maybe there's something to what you're saying

So you can note that in one single post he both
1) claimed that CMM was difficult to sort and discredited the wagon by doing that.
and
2) claimed that Prohawk is scum bussing their partner.

Which is bizarre as shit because if he thought Prohawk was scum bussing he'd hammer the bussee, no? Not try to subtly discredit the wagon?

Then a few pages later we get the whole random tunnel on me thing, which I still believe was an attempt to distract people from CMM.

And then look at CMM's reaction.

The implication being that if he doesn't, he's admitting that he's scum? Like what? I don't know if there's a technical term for what this is, like a loaded statement or something similar but I'm going to say it's plain ridiculous.

No, they're scum together.

but we have prohawk here who knows conman's going to flip scum

[RadiantCowbells]

Anti was trying to tie a billion lynches to CMM flipping scum but not voting the slot.

That alone should give you pause.

[RadiantCowbells]

Lhix was banned for game throwing.

There's a reason for it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Well fuck you because I want to win.

[RadiantCowbells]

Do you think that scum is likely to tell town who is scumreading them that they're provoking them because their reaction is funny?

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey, I've played games with "that guy" before.

Find me one where it's scum, I dare you.

[RadiantCowbells]

Papa I'll lynch you on principle if you continue this.

[RadiantCowbells]

I sort of agree.

I'd happily lynch Jestr or Anti though.

[RadiantCowbells]

That puts me in a situation where I'd want to lynch you to make a point to the other townies.

[RadiantCowbells]

Rob, if your lynch pool is me and Zito then I may end up having to lynch you.

I somewhat agree with what you say about CMM but considering that Anti/Jestr are scummy as fuck in general I'm still in the mood to lynch there.

Can we not compromise here?

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright, I'm done with this game.

VOTE: Rob
VOTE: Zito

Just hammer wherever.

[RadiantCowbells]

And I get mislynched, so, so infrequently.

I'm very sad.

Words will be said in postgame.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry about my own part in town loss. My play was fairly mediocre, both in terms of my reads and my ability to show that I was town.

That said, Anti, c'mon. Are you going to scum read me every single game?

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, this is one of the stronger plays I've seen from scum.

A few people called 1 of the scum at different points (I was definitely leaning on Zito being scum when I was lynched) but no one called them as a team.

Even if Rob or Zito was lynched I doubt the other would have followed.

[RadiantCowbells]

Zito's not bad

#1 vote of confidence.

[RadiantCowbells]

The double bus was really smoothly done.

You both did solid but not amazing in not being independently scummy, though I think either of you could have easily been lynched; but BOTH of you couldn't have been lynched, like ever.

It was well done.