Micro 618 {Over}

[ReallySick]

/confirm

There is no limit to the number of topics you can create.

This seems to be a very good rule to be abused =P. Create PT against 1 person and Create PT against any combination for 2 people. That should be like 8 + 8C2 = 8 + 26 = 34 PT.
~Realeo

[ReallySick]

VOTE: Chip Butty

for potentially carnivorous and to be honest, I have a hunch that BulletNLynchproof is town.

~ Realeo

[ReallySick]

hey the other head of the hydra is popping in.
reading up on what i think of this game so far.

[ReallySick]

Im fairly comfortable with my other heads' vote.

From my own game with him and a general meta of chip his reasoning is very analytcal even just coming out of RVS, in the ones that ive seen, he has been town both times.
So when he enters this game sillily, and doesnt post anything content filled, it can lead me to suspect him somewhat.

(note: this is not a scumread just a small thing that i have noticed from meta... which is not so reliable anyway.}

~ Sickofit

[ReallySick]

also its not just abnormal for him, but the funny posts can sometimes have a stay in RVS, which is not town like and would prevent him from diving in to scum reads is he was town.

~ Sickofit

[ReallySick]

I'm reading Realeo as Town, but I'm pretty certain Sick is scum.

is this an OMGUS?

I would like you to address my points. why you are not playing as your town meta.

[ReallySick]

Why are you so keen to get us out of RVS?

I think the reason sickofit is so keen to get us out of RVS has something to do with a meta.

Spoiler: and the story began

We we're playing at Newbie 1601 if I recalled correctly.

It was my first game and my approach (a VI gambit) was "Everyone! Get out of the RVS, NOW!"

It works extraordinary.

I was put at L-1 at page 5. In a newbie game.

But I survived until the final 4 and successfully scumread sickofit and Drixx for the win while everyone was tunneling other player. So there is chance maybe sickofit is employing my tactic, while I myself revert back to normalcy. My normalcy is pretty much the same of Newbie 1601--without getting us out of RVS.

Mod request: Can we switch from quicktopic to classic MS PT? It seems my Indonesian government blocks it. Reports like this also came from Thailand, Malaysia & Turkey. I ain't going to use Tor.

Guys? Can we talk here... I am getting no reads at all.

~Realeo

Answered in 83.

[ReallySick]

What's your favorite movie, song and color?

Not that kind of talk. If people are going to be inactive or whispering in their PT while my government are blocking me accessing Quick Thread, I am for one also asking to get rid of the RVS ASAP =p (It's seriously boring =P)

Also, a hunch that I'm town? I don't think I've posted anything AI up to that point.

I have a theory, but the theory is (1) not conclusive (2)normally, I would be glad to explain it, but explaining the theory will be synonymous with [redacted] (3) who the hell picks up read from RVS?

Hence, the reason I used the word "hunch" =P.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Guys? Can we talk here... I am getting no reads at all.

What's your favorite movie, song and color?

Uh uh, no.
We need discussion and its not happening. It appears we are already out of RVS.

The reason I want to get out of RVS:

the point of RVS is to generate the discussion, and the discussion is not happening.

Staying in the RVS is not Pro-Town.


~ Sickofit

@ Mod

I can second the motion for a MS PT instead of quick topic.

My response is in 83.

[ReallySick]

Discussion has started whether you like it or not chip.
It's technically not RVS anymore.

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

I agree with this.
I'm still slightly reading chipbutty as scum still.

@Chipbutty

I like the analytic style better. It's a better town style then what you are doing now. You shouldn't change it IMO

[ReallySick]

At least that's if you're town.

[ReallySick]

the scum were extraordinarily good that game.

You said it yourself that there is not much to go off of yet, andso we have to go off of little stuff at the start.
Its not a huge inconsistency but enough to make me ask.

[ReallySick]

i was referring to all the meta on you i can find.

[ReallySick]

There you go, Sick - analytical enough for you?

this wasnt my point. youre smart enough to know that.

[ReallySick]

i dont know for sure but i will ask.

if i were to guess, it is because though he has few posts, he appears to actually be scumhunting.

[ReallySick]

guys i understand you're excited about the neat infinite neighborizer mechanic but for now, we should be carrying out most of our discussion in public. Good reasons to form a hood are to tell someone something you don't necessarily want to out to everyone, and so early in the game there really shouldn't be much of that.

agreed. we wont beable to find mafia and out them if we dont post in the main game thread.

on another note,
explain your townlean on chip, cuz im not getting any specific town vibes.

[ReallySick]

guys i understand you're excited about the neat infinite neighborizer mechanic but for now, we should be carrying out most of our discussion in public. Good reasons to form a hood are to tell someone something you don't necessarily want to out to everyone, and so early in the game there really shouldn't be much of that.

agreed. we wont beable to find mafia and out them if we dont post in the main game thread.

on another note,
explain your townlean on chip, cuz im not getting any specific town vibes.

~Sick

[ReallySick]

guys i understand you're excited about the neat infinite neighborizer mechanic but for now, we should be carrying out most of our discussion in public. Good reasons to form a hood are to tell someone something you don't necessarily want to out to everyone, and so early in the game there really shouldn't be much of that.

agreed. we wont beable to find mafia and out them if we dont post in the main game thread.

on another note,
explain your townlean on chip, cuz im not getting any specific town vibes.

~Sick

this post

I just want to clarify, and I know SOMEONE will jump on me for this, but it is a genuine question about the mechanics:

If werevolves have no factional NK, and only kill Town through lynching and vengekill resulting from lynching, can't Town actually peacefully co-exist with werewolves indefinitely, as long as we never lynch? I mean, with no NK, they pose no threat to Town unless we lynch.

felt likea townpost to me. making early mechposts early tends to ping me but the self-awareness as well as just the nature of the question is what i like. reads as a town aligned player to me. could definitely be wrong on this one, it's a gut feeling based on one post.

-Ariadne

I see. Possible WiFoM but a good pint nonetheless.

[ReallySick]

~sick

need to stop forgetting

[ReallySick]

Also, wouldn't not voting in order to co-exist be playing against win con?

not neccesarily.
If town needed more time to discuss a lynch, i might be an interesting concept. Since this game is in testing (I think) they may change this mechanic.

[ReallySick]

IMO scum usually seem more confortable and laid back... so the joking could go either way as a scum or town lean, just depends on the person... meta-ing him now...

[ReallySick]

Also, wouldn't not voting in order to co-exist be playing against win con?

not neccesarily.
If town needed more time to discuss a lynch, i might be an interesting concept. Since this game is in testing (I think) they may change this mechanic.

IMO scum usually seem more confortable and laid back... so the joking could go either way as a scum or town lean, just depends on the person... meta-ing him now...

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

What do you think about Murder trying to direct conversation towards BTD in 72?

I dont like it or even Murdercat in general. Look at his ISO... its not a towny ISO

[ReallySick]

Sick I've noticed looks scummy to me in general

i get this alot

[ReallySick]

but disliked Sick deliberately being overly reachy with the vote reasoning on Chip

It got discussion started which is what i wanted, and even though it may be a little thing it is the biggest thing ive caught so far.

Nahdia hydra so far has been pretty much on my line of thinking which means I like them for town as well.

I dont like this post it rubs me the wrong way. He could be scum trying to blend in.

Also disliked the whole hunch on BNL being town thing, but I am assuming that is linked to some kind of thought process that the person wagon'ed in RVS is usually town?

I liked BNL's 48 for town.

Huh?

So, I'm being a little more cautious.

Town doesnt need to be cautious IMO. Scum needs to blend in more than town does.

Sick, do you know Real's reasoning for thinking BNLP is Town? Could one of you explain it please?

*deflects conversation away from himself*

More coming later


~Sick

[ReallySick]

No seriously look at you ISO. It looks like you don't want to be noticed.

~ Sick

Note: your last post makes me want to scum read you. If you we're town you would want all the information you can get.

[ReallySick]

Sick, do you know Real's reasoning for thinking BNLP is Town? Could one of you explain it please?

I can't. It's dumb and has something to do with something else.

No-one is expecting a conclusive theory out of RVS. That shouldn't stop you from posting it.

If I am right, this is sarcasm right?

The reason I posted the hunch was

BNLP at L-2

. With experience of being put at L-1 at page 6, I feel compulsory to declare that I'm not going put him at L-1.

You two heads need to discuss this among yourselves - as far as I can see, Realio is saying we can't pick up reads from RVS, while Sick is insisting that we do. personally, I agree with Sick on this.

I don't care if our methodology conflicts--in fact, it's better thus we have more perspective,

as long we don't conflict in fos

.

I tr BNLP. He fos ChipButty and MURDERCAT. No conflict so far although we have to admit that we haven't have mutual agreement.
~Realeo

[ReallySick]

So you weren't townreading me ("hunch")

Called it "very small tendency to town" read.

~Realeo.

[ReallySick]

Before we proceed, how many of you are Americans?

I came to my observation that a lot of people made shitty post during midnight--due to exhaustion--so knowing your time zone helps. You will be surprised that a staggering huge proportion of shitty argument came around midnight--so I need to take concern of your local time, are you mafia with stupid argument or are you town with exhausted brain?

I myself an Indonesian and that's +7 GMT

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Is it from an ongoing game?

Anyway, I am definitely agreeing with pushing on BTD6

[ReallySick]

VOTE: BTD6_maker

[ReallySick]

I feel scum is in ChipButty/muredercat/BTD?

Just a d1 read but I'm ready to push my scum reads.

[ReallySick]

1. You (Realeo) continue to tr BNLP, but you can't say why and you admit the reason is "dumb"? And what is this "something else"? You seem to be saying you were concerned he was at L-2. Why? That's not such a big deal in RVS. He's not going to be quicklynched. Why did you find it "compulsory" to announce you weren't going to vote him to L-1? Why not just say that, rather than you had a hunch he is Town? Those are two different things.

1. Good argument, they are 2 different thing.

You see, at Newbie 1701, I was: (1)put at L-1 at page 6 (2)Called a newbtown (3)Sworn to not come back to this site (4)Sworn that I will be receiving wotc in 3 months.

And you know what? I pinned the scum at the end of the game when others are running in circle. Granted, it's a happy ending, but it was so

demoralizing.

So let's say that I have minor PTSD and BPLP gave me

deja vu

but at the same time I also have minuscule town lead so I feel the common courtesy to reduce the pain. Fair enough?

2. It just looks weird that you are not backing away from your "hunch" but you can't explain the basis of it.

I can explain it but I can't explain it to you. I would like to keep it for a while and sickofit agrees with me that we should keep it for a while.

You may keep bugging me about this but neither sickofit nor me will explain it for the time being.

I've got to say, that takes the biscuit as one of the most bizarre posts I have ever seen in a game of Mafia. But, okay, Realeo - can you be more specific and point out just which midnight (in which specific timezone?) posts were so "shitty"?

General observation. You're not expecting me to keep tally right?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

@ChipButty: When I was reading your ISO--it seem that you're too relaxed for a concept of people being put at L-1.

Granted, my concern at BPLP was a little bit premature--but your seem to be too relaxed about BTD wagon and start questioning MURDERCAT. I mean, there's only 7 days left at the clock so a lynch there won't be so weird.

And you haven't use your vote?

Unless, you have some philosophy that I am not aware of.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

I am comfortable and agree with my other head putting that vote on BTD6.

~Realeo.

[ReallySick]

[...] you accuse me of this [...]

Meh, it's a harmless question.

[...]VOTE: Really Sick

Thank you. We just wait for another hydra's vote so we can see everyone's stand.

~Realeo

Deleted hydra slip.

[ReallySick]

The BTD 6 wagon is not producing anything here. We need some serious more posting.
Like seriously.

[ReallySick]

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

If he had nothing to worry about at L-1 like you said, why would that change anything?

I think people has less incentive to chime in when no one's head is in the express line of the guillotine.

[ReallySick]

~ Realeo

[ReallySick]

I have question: If town is at 3-2, we lynched werewolf, extra the vengekill it will be 1-1 right? Tie?

7-2 -> 4 mislynch = 4 night.

Our PR should be catching the werewolf in 4 nights, yes? First day is spoiled, but can we make pact to let to not vote at all at D2, so our PR can have infinity amount of PR power?

[ReallySick]

PS: Assuming that it's not X-shot

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

My only concern is that there is like--Arsonist werewolf? I mean, the theme is Whisper in the Wood and an arsonist werewolf is a perfect fit to theme?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Paraphrasing is ok, right?

My PM said that we need to eradicate all threats to town, so obviously town don't win; But Ranger didn't really specify what is the werewolf winning condition. If it's the classic: You win when all town is eradicated--or nothing can prevent it, so that'll be tie right because no one finishes their winning condition?

~Realeo =/

I'd normally delete the slip, though in this case I won't as to keep mhsmith's pagetop.

[ReallySick]

I changed the hydra profile. I hope I will be able to reckon it now.

Back to the ol' scumhunting:

I expect BTD to talk anytime soon but I have to admit that both me and sickofit has come to a mutual agreement that BTD is in our top of the list.

And for once in a while, I will explain how we came to this mutual agreement: sickofit decided to go for direct scumhunting while I decided to go townhunting via poe.

There is some friction and some mutual agreement here and there but here's what we got on BTD.

From sickofit POV

(at least the last time we talked--so don't cite back and say "you're being contradicting". Fun trivia: Our read constantly changes and we can't be 100% sync.

YOU HEARD ME CHIP BUTTY, WE CAN'T BE 100% SYNC

)

, he found BTD's self-metaing scummy. From my point of view, I simply can't townread him--or even give him the benefit of doubt. It's a blatant lie to say that Chip Butty didn't rub me the wrong way, but I find it easier to label him "just a town being suspicious and doing his job of scumhunting" compared to BTD.

However, (1) I would like to see his fos and the other hydra's fos before the pushing starts. (2) The only thing that he talked was about the ninja and the RVS--so it's possible that I'm False Positive, so I'm up for change.

~ Realeo

[ReallySick]

Ok guys,

first of all, i think they would have found an easy broken town win if there was one. i believe there may be a Wolf PR that might prevent this strategy from working.

I feel like in the spirit of the game we should be playing to our usual wincon, and not trying to break this setup.

i still cant stand BTD 6 he is seriously pinging me scum. He has been self meta-ing and he feels like he is seting himself up to be able to switch wagons whenever the momentum shifts.

[ReallySick]

~ Sick

(sorry)

[ReallySick]

first of all, i think they would have found an easy broken town win if there was one. i believe there may be a Wolf PR that might prevent this strategy from working.

Note: Townslip...

What do you mean?

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

Can I have scumread analysis on us? I want to inspect other player's train of thought.

Awkward request, but serious nonetheless.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

I've only played with sick but I find the way he throws around random accusations with not a lot of reasoning to be extremely scummy. I also know it's NAI for him.

Interesting.
When have I done this in this game?
If anyone is doin it out of the two of us I would be you.
I've been making organic arguments against chip and BTD and Ll you've done is sheep it.
Be careful what you are saying.

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

Do not hammer at any scenario. STOP AT L-1.

Remember that we don't have to actually put him at majority--we just need him at plurality.

He need to receives 4 unvotes to not be lynched so that's enough pressure and that's enough to lynch him. Stop right there. No need to overkill. If you hammer him, then you are scummy from stopping him from talking.

@Murdercat

Let me clarify this. The last sentence: " I probably wouldn't want you to know how I read you as scum anyway."

Is this "I read sickofit as scum but not really with Realeo" or "I read you both as scum as a whole" due to 96.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

@Murdercat
You dont need an answer look at your ISO up until the point that I said it doesn't look towny.

Stilts point remains that I have given my reasonings for my FOS.

I am playing nothing like that game I have been toning it down.
Do not use tht game for this game it's two complete different styles from me.

FOS: Murdercat

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

sickofit, why are you signing up a game where people are so not impatient?

Power role, check Karnos. He can be hyperactive lynch bait if this flips town.

[ReallySick]

This is getting sick and I'm sickofit (pun intended)....

I better get sleep now.

[ReallySick]

sickofit, why are you signing up a game where people are so not impatient?

Hmm? I dot understand what you are saying?


What was with that hammer?

Ok so if BTD 6 is werewolf then he gets two vengekills... Could his team have maybe planned for him to die N1? Just a possibility... Idk it's making my brain hurt. I am very wary of karnos now...

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

BTD claim and claim honestly if you can during our Twilight.
And if you are town give a will.

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

OK wait, is this game using a different type of lynch mechanic? o havnt noticed it...

[ReallySick]

I suspect wolf!D&A picked the fakehammer and thought Town!BTD didn't pick the fakehammer and thus that his seer claim is genuine. So she fakeclaimed to get a real hammer before the fakehammer came to light. She even called for a realhammer.

And who leapt in to carry out that claim for a realhammer? MC, who forgot that karnos had unvoted.

Also, it was D&A who questioned BTD on the Cop v Seer thing...again, trying to secure the realhammer before the fakehammer came to light.

Prob MC second wolf.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: D&A

i dont think so, i believe BTD is scum still.

[ReallySick]

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

I'm liking Jae Read here. The usual newb wolfplay is to jump on the wagons with the biggest momentum and he has not done that and is playing cautiously as a townie. I'm not sure I agree with His like of D&A... But I'm willing to town read him.

~ Sick

I'll move with you on this btw. If my other head is ok with it staying: VOTE: Murderat

[ReallySick]

Fuck no i dont believe the Seer claim...

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

Aigo. That double fake voting really threw me off.

I actually buy that seer claim but like it matter. He can just claim to be roleblocked or roleblocked for real.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Aigo. That double fake voting really threw me off.

I actually buy that seer claim but like it matter. He can just claim to be roleblocked or roleblocked for real.

~Realeo

Umm... You mean that you think that there is a seer in a game with no Night Kill? Talk about OP. if that was the case then the game is already broken.

[ReallySick]

We're allowed to discuss it publicly, right? I see no problem because this is setup spec.

I was under the impression that it can Mafia Roleblocker/Mafia Godfather/Mafia Arsonist (woods--fire!). I mean, it's not necessarily for Micro game to have normal role.

~Realeo

You are allowed to speculate, and those roles are possible roles which could be in the game. For obvious reasons, I can say no more.

[ReallySick]

2 of Mafia Roleblocker/Mafia Godfather/Mafia Arsonist, before someone complains

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

@Mod: I believe that our vote is at MURDERCAT

So it is.

[ReallySick]

I'm not so sure about Murdercat. He is a weak scumread of mine but I think that at this stage one of Karnos and D&A is scum.

I should probably investigate Murdercat. Tell me in a whisper if you want me to investigate someone else.

You are playing his for all its worth arnt you?

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

I TR D&A here personally. They are being pushed but holding up.

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

Note; This is NOT our official read--we are somewhat contradicting like hell. This is purely my (Realeo) read and I just want to throw my opinion into the table.

------------------------------------------------------------------

I personally do not buy MURDERCAT being scum.

Karnos: MURDERCAT copies BPLP

I don't necessary buy them as AI. Karnos implied them as "Scum copying other person", but can't MURDERCAT & BPLP is just having classic "Great Minds Think Alike?"

That L-1 unvote. WTF?

I understand that people are wondering about the L-1, but I think that is NAI at best. They're 2 type of players here at best "the guy who take their time" (ie.me) & "lynch da bitch" guy (ie.Karnos)

I just want to classify MURDERCAT as the former one.

Don't you hammer, you dunce!

Remember that hammah trick? (Stares at Karnos). I'd like to that that MURDERCAT's reaction is real and basically just being consistent with "the guy who take their time" guy.

So if I townread MURDERCAT, why are you not changing your vote?

Simple, it takes mutual agreement to vote MURDERCAT, so it also takes mutual agreement to unvote MURDERCAT. Being a Hydra is tough, you can't just trump your other head opinion. Please, give us a break.><

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Oy, BTW. Don't hammer MURDERCAT.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

RABBLE RABBLE about things

This is not really a reason to scumread him imo, but with that said! I am scumreading him for other reasons.

VOTE: BTD

Can you explain "the other reasons". I want to see your train of thought. This happens before the L-1 chaos, mind you.

[ReallySick]

~Realeo. Goddamit.

[ReallySick]

Jaereed, response to 354 please

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Ah, so you spread them across. Sorry for the inconvenience..

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

@BTD. I believe you need to clarify your 357

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

UNVOTE: Murdercat

mutual agreement here.
more coming soon

~Sick

[ReallySick]

guys. there is n o cop in this game. Why? no Night kill.

Say we have a cop
we can literally use Chip buttys idea but we would have a cop to find the scum. the game would be broken.

BTD is not a cop. He is not town. I (personally, idk about my other head) want no lynch today other than BTD one.

[ReallySick]

yes that was me.

ok BTD. If there was a RB than if you were cop... you wouldnt have outed yourself until last minute... not early in the day.

If you are cop... than you know for sure that there is an RB.


you are not a cop.
you are not a seer.

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

Yeah so I'm having trouble coming up with reads. Trying a different approach for scumhunting.

Could ReallySick/Chip Butty be the scumteam here? Game is stalling near deadline, and these two people's activities are declining, and on the same wagon. This could mean they are scum waiting for people to pile on Murdercat.

Youre having trouble coming up with reads? why lol?

its much harder to "read" people as scum. Is that what the issue is here?

um. we have 29 more posts than you. Activity drop torward day end is less scum AI then posting a little bit at the beggining then getting it up. This slot has been the one pushing a lot of conversation i believe. You are grasping at straws.

And, might i mention its the weekend.

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

oh my god.

at the beguinning of the game cop wouldnt claim right? they cant expect to get a cop claim D1 and if there is none then the game is definitely imbalanced for town cuz cop wouldnt have to claim until he is about to be hammered.

~ sick

[ReallySick]

umm... BPLP... he literally said that Murdercats reaction to the "hammer" felt legit.

[ReallySick]

Alpha wolf? letme check on that

[ReallySick]

no but seriously i didnt see it on the wiki and i thought i needed to look harder somewhere.

~ sick

[ReallySick]

@ReallySick can I convince you to vote BNL instead, also?

I'm not sure you will be able to convince us. BNL is not really in either readlist the last time we sync.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Still though... finding one werewolf guarunteed while the town is invincible sounds

VERY

unbalanced. Does it not?

I feel

VERY

strongly there is no seer in this setup it would be too unbalanced.

RB and Seer: relies entirely upon luck to hit the seer. Probably the seer may get 2 investigations in before he was RBed, and you could no lynch every day until the seer gives his reports.

Jailer and seer: they shouldnt need a jailer just a regular RB would do the same thing. .... unless there is a vig... but if theres a vig then there would be no seer.

AlphaWolf and Seer: i stated above why this is absolutely fine for town as well

Deleted alt-slip.

[ReallySick]

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

On second thought, after reading the ISO--I kinda understand JaeReed's fos.

VOTE: BNL

Not mutual agreement, so sick can easily revoke this and I probably going to swim deep again to rereading.

~Realeo.

NB: Is Vanilla Seer a possibility? BDT claimed Seer but didn't really telll what kind of seer.

[ReallySick]

@JaeReed. But your vote is still at MURDERSCUM?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Ah. Day 2. My intelligence.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Oh now i feel stupid.

There are also sanities that may come into play.
I can honestly see another day come out of this and maybe let him get a 'Report'.

I still think BDT is scum... but no sure enough to lynch a seer claim D1



This head is fairly comfortable with a BNL vote for now. I trust my other head at what hes doing right now and i am willing to go with it.

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

So who's being lynched at this point? BNLP or MURDERCAT? Both of them are tied at 3 and both of them are tied at 2 before then.

At the point of this post, it would be BulletNLynchproof thanks to JaeReed's vote in 456. Prior to that, it would have been Murdercat. An updated votecount is in 552.

[ReallySick]

Personally, I think the job becomes easier after we have a

sure flip

and 2 people we don't have to sort (and can trust post flip). Let me look at BNL now.

You're willing to bet your life now?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

You said "sure flip". How sure are you?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

About BTD, the question we have to answer is:

1) Did BTD figured out that the hammer is fake?

2) If no, did he troll as a maf?

~Realeo

I am convinced that neither me, MURDERCAT, ChipButty realized it--but BTD? I am more inclined to not either.

[ReallySick]

guys we have 16 hours. we cant be inactive now.

[ReallySick]

ill be around a bit longer but not at the deadline. i dont inten to change my vote though so that wont be changing. if my othe head wants to change it and he is on im all good for it though.

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

I wanted to pointed this out, hoping that this might get attention.

Can some people re-consider their definition of good setup and broken setup?

When someone considered

Cop vs Roleblocker + WW

, you said it's too townsided.

When someone considered

Cop vs Alpha + Roleblocker

you said it's too mafiasided and defeats the purposes of having Cop.

So my question is,

what do you want? What is a good setup? It seems according to you, everything is simply wrong

Do you expect 7 Vanilla Townies + 2 Mafia goon? (ie. Mountanious)

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

So do I, but some people are basing their fos solely on setup spec so that's annoying.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

At least one scum pushing that wagon, possibly both.

Not necessarily True.

If this is a simple majority game--the at least 1 mafia on the wagon (and of course, your favorite

the mafia is either the 3rd or 4t person

) maybe valid. But this game employs plurality--and it's possible that the mafia hop on other stupid wagon to deflect accusation.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

I retract my 539. I thought that D&A mentioned BNL at 538--but it turned out to be BTD.

I <3 misreading

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

i think my other head and i agree on our reads right now.

i want to wait for him first tho do get internet access before i push on these reads.
also, i want to wait for BTD

[ReallySick]

I was a bit put off by the contents of a private topic between them and I though. Seemed... disingenuous. Scum motivated, even.

VOTE: ReallySick

-Ariadne

You thought that us asking you if you we're whispering JaeReed Scum-motivated?

[ReallySick]

The typos.

You thought that us asking if you were whispering JaeReed was Scum Motivated.

[ReallySick]

I think my partner and I agree on:

Karnos ~ Murdercat

VOTE: Karnos

[ReallySick]

Well BNL said 1 was on and 1 was off probably right?

Spoiler: Well...

BulletNLynchproof - 4 (Dionysus and Ariadne, ReallySick, JaeReed,

Murdercat

)
karnos - 2 (BulletNLynchproof, Charloux)
Dionysus and Ariadne - 2 (BTD6_maker,

karnos

)
BTD6_maker - 1 (Chip Butty)

BNL didn't like Karnos either JaeReed.

As pointed out by BNL:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: karnos

I finally have a scumread. I am suspicious of his townread on me and I think he could be scum white knighting, considering I have not been townie and almost all the other players are scumreading me. I also didn't like his earlier buddying of me.

In our PT Karnos did seem very scummy to me. He said something that I had already said in the thread and acted like I hadn't said it already. He seemed to be buddying us quite a lot. He was talking to us like he knew for sure we were town.

Realeo has a bit to say on it whenever he picks up the time.

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

@ChipButty: The blackmail is a joke. I clarified this already.

[ReallySick]

Good midnight. I just landed. I will either post the argument that I promised for D&A soon or later if I get too sleepy.

[ReallySick]

If there's anything factually wrong with this argument, bear with me.

So I decided to do vote count analysis.

Spoiler: Vote count at peak of the wagon

BTD6 wagon:

BTD6_maker - 4 (JaeReed, Really Sick, karnos,Murdercat)
BulletNLynchproof - 2 (Charloux, BTD6_maker)
ReallySick - 1 (BulletNLynchproof)
Murdercat - 1 (Chip Butty)

Not Voting - 1 (Dionysus and Ariadne)

Murdercat wagon:

BulletNLynchproof (1) Charloux
Murdercat (4) BulletNLynchproof ReallySick JaeReed Chip Butty
BTD6_Maker (1) Dionysus and Ariadne
Dionysus and Ariadne (1) BTD6_Maker
Not Voting (2) Murdercat karnos

BulletNLynchproof - 4 (Dionysus and Ariadne, ReallySick, JaeReed, Murdercat)
karnos - 2 (BulletNLynchproof, Charloux)
Dionysus and Ariadne - 2 (BTD6_maker, karnos)
BTD6_maker - 1 (Chip Butty)

Hold your horses. I know you're complaining, but let me defend it. The reason I use VCA

this early

is because

we have 2 counter wagon

.

I came to 2 observations.

• I don't think Chip Butty is scum. He is being consistent voting in {MURDERCAT,Realeo,BTD}
  
• I don't think Charloux is scum. He spent a huge time voting BNL before switching out. Mafia are meant to leverage their voting power--thanks to their day talk. I don't think Charloux did.
  
  So my remaining scum is in {BTD,JaeReed,MURDERCAT,Karnos,D&A}.
  
  From these permutations, the only partnership that makes senses is Karnos/MURDERCAT. Here's why:
  
  • They try to distance themselves at "WHY DID YOU UNVOTE THAT L-1" drama
    
  • This one is important argument.
    If you look closely, when MURDERCAT wagon is at peek (when ChipButty put him at L-1) neither of them voted. Karnos claimed to fos MURDERCAT,
    but he only voted MURDERCAT after the wagon collapses.
    
    
  • Both of them pushes on BTD.
    
  • This one is not fact-checked. I will do it later, but I'm very exhausted.
    At 20th June, BNL pointed out my argument of defending MURDECAT. At the same time, Karnos start contacting me. Possible buddying?

And I want to address one extra reasoning that has something to do with the drama we had today: D&A fosing me over the whisper.

As hinted above, I exchange a lot with Karnos. Karnos pointed out a good argument about JaeReed being scum. This has something to do with JaeReed whispering D&A (I will give more detail later on) which is why I must ask D&A about JaeReed. But this is where it raised my alarm. He gave me argument about JaeReed being scum--but he is advocating a D&A lynch (I will explain more detail later on. I really need sleep)

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

If the post is sub-par of my usual level of quality, I have 2 words of excuse.

Jet Lag

[ReallySick]

he said murder is guilty.

we are predicting Karnos-Murdercat.

[ReallySick]

*yawn*

[ReallySick]

Is that the argument pointed out earlier in the thread? I addressed that.

No, it's a different argument.

So this is basically Karnos' argument:

Premise 1 : JaeReed townread D&A
Premise 2 : We expect town to whisper their townread
Premise 3 : According to JaeReed + Karnos whisper, JaeReed didn't whisper D&A
Conclusion: Therefore JaeReed is scum.

Figured that might make it easier to read him + he was complaining about people not talking in the main thread so I assumed he didn't have a topic with anyone.

He claimed to have 5 topics.

[ReallySick]

How many of us believes ChipButty is town? I know sickofit is still conflicting with me but anyone else?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

I can't answer for him.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

If this is true you should be voting BTD end of story.

Can he be a Vanilla Townie doing a gambit? I have pulled such gambit and that's why we're voting Karnos instead of Murdercat.

If I lynch Murdercat and Murdercat flips town, mafia will fry him like hell. If I lynch Murdercat and Murdercat flips maf, well he is genuine seer as it turned out--but like it matters because he's going down with the vengekill.

To quote a very famous Epic Mafia mantra: "Don't lynch either the cop or the cop target for more report" Which is perhaps one of the rare wise quote to came from there

[ReallySick]

I am starting to see the possibility that maybe D&A isn't scum with Jae, but I still see Jae as a scum,

presumably with Murdercat.

SO FICKIN VOTE HIM! LET'S VOTE TOGETHER. Together, we can put him at L-2. You vote him, I sheep you since me and sickofit settles at {Murdercat,Karnos}

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Come On. I dare you to (hypothetically) bus him.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

I am not making a leap (I don't know about JaeReed) but I pulled a gambit where I claimed cop as Vanilla Townie (or whatever what they call it back in Epic Mafia)

BTD is not 100% VT, but he can be VT. Which is why I'm giving him the benefit of doubt.

[ReallySick]

And why did I make that stupid offer when I shouldn't lynch Murdercat given the state of the game.

Sorry, sorry. Adrenaline rush.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Can he be a Vanilla Townie doing a gambit? I have pulled such gambit and that's why we're voting Karnos instead of Murdercat.

Why are people entertaining this? Why do people think this is a possibility? What am I missing?

Mafia is

not

binary of town is being honest v mafia lied. It can gets complex.

[ReallySick]

So? He is claiming a guilty on you has equal power with claiming a innocent on you or even claiming roleblocked. A VT claimed Cop is a VT gambit--it doesn't matter the report. This maybe counter-intuitive but it is the truth.

He can be scum, VT gambiting scum on your, or real cop checking you.

Trust me that 100% understand you--if you're town--I have been on the giving end and the receiving end.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Time to spill the bean.

I'm the seer. Me and BTD have been roleswapping.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

If you do, we should be looking for a partner. Murder is acting like a jester though in that he wants to be lynched. If he's scum I don't think it's wise to allow him his 2 vengekills before we sus out his partner

Let us do the math.

If I have Murdercat guilty and I tell that I have guilty report: there'll be people who question my report and insist on me not being cop
If I have Murdercat innocent and I tell that I have innocent report: there'll be people who question my report and insist on me not being cop

It's a lose-lose. I am

100% going

to out it later, but it's the best of interest for us to be not biased. The reason that I'm telling that I am the cop is Murdercat is tunneling on BTD and that's like not productive like hell.

It is possible that I erred and BTD is scum--but at least ditch away the gambit reasoning.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Are you saying that you told BTD your role and had him claim the result?

That is correct. He claimed D1 seer, so why don't just leverage him as well?

Gambit + Roleswapping

If you were seer then you would give your result.

I will before the day ends (5 days into deadline), but not insta going to. That simply dumb.

[ReallySick]

Look Murdercat, your reasoning has been "I don't trust his claim". That will be simply wrong to let you go to that shit hole of reasoning.

Which is why when BTD gambitted, sickofit panicked like hell, but that will give away right? So I have to neutralize it.

Being a hydra is tough, you know. You can't 100% sync. I won't be surprised if sickofit checks-in and asking what the hell is going on. I haven't tell him about revealing this roleswap.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

I know this along. I don't know what Charloux meant by lying.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

How come BTD pulled a gambit with the majority knowing about it???

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Who is 'you'? Murdercat?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

He didn't say "going to". He just said about an idea that Karnos gave, but dismissed it by saying "I probably should be claiming roleblocked"

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Because he believed that the scum is D&A and JaeReed. According to BTD, the plan is to whisper JaeReed and D&A innocent while claiming Murdercat is guilty. Why he proposed it is I have no idea?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

VOTE: ReallySick

I think I like this right now.

Pedit: Sure but if me and Karnos are partners he would call for a fake guilty on Char or Chip or someone, not me.

I'm just reciting facts. Don't shoot the messenger.

[ReallySick]

You roleswapping thing was BS and you ignored my question about it

I can only answer the question about roleswapping BS until certain condition is reached. D&A can vouch for this reasoning.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Wise move actually.

DID KARNOS KNOW THIS ALL ALONG?

Because BTD said "Don't tell Karnos because I may pull 2nd gambit"

[ReallySick]

So let us clarify this:

(1)BTD didn't lie about the plan. He just didn't make it official (at least to me)
(2)Murdercat obviously being tricked.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Hold on a second.

7/8 of us know the gambit. That means at least 1 werewolf know about this plan.

There is a chance that MURDERCAT know about this trick all along if he's the 2nd werewolf. Not 100%, but plausible.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Condition has been reached! Now I can tell about the BS roleswappin.

So do you remember my reasoning of fosing Murdercat/Karnos? One of the argument was, they are ganging up against BTD.

My hypothesis is, if I pull that sitty roleswap, both of them will gang up against me.

Result?

VOTE: ReallySick
I think I like this right now.
Pedit: Sure but if me and Karnos are partners he would call for a fake guilty on Char or Chip or someone, not me.

We're at 8 now so assuming no night kills we have... 3 more mislynches before we need to find scum.

We're at 6/2, right? Three more mislynches, we're 3/2. Then hit scum, 3/1. Scum vengekills 2, 1/1. Town loses.

And what do you mean "assuming no night kills"? We know scum doesn't have NK. Are you suggesting there might be a Vig?

Interesting thing: 1v1 doesn't mean town loses, it just means the first person to post and vote at the start of day wins, whether town or wolf. Kind of funny really.

But yeah, we can't just keep lynching townies for fun. Need to lynch scum.

VOTE: BTD
Since the seer claim has been fully debunked, I think this is the correct move. I still think Jae is acting incredibly scummy, but can't lynch two people at the same time, and fake seer claim is a step worse.

VOTE: JaeReed

No clear results, just a lot of muddying of the issue, going to vote with my gut for now.

So TL:DR;

the roleswappin in an impromptu reaction test.

I still don't think Karnos is town--but he gives me reason to move on.

VOTE: Murdercat

[ReallySick]

Oh whatever. I got what I need. sickofit was arguing for Karnos lynch while I am arguing for your lynch. A settlement need to be made.

You act scummy and then OMGUS whoever calls you scum. Maybe you are just scum.

Nein. I made myself a moving target intentionally. I mean, look at JaeReed. He also fos me, but fosing me naturally. You on the other hand just waving knife at me.

Between natural foser and knife waver, I lynch the knife waver.

Because he believed that the scum is D&A and JaeReed. According to BTD, the plan is to whisper JaeReed and D&A innocent while claiming Murdercat is guilty. Why he proposed it is I have no idea?

~Realeo

Scumslip on how to set up mislynches on me and D&A?

Reciting the facts. I am just telling what BTD told me. Don't shoot the messenger.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

You may call me liar, but I already check-in my plan with D&A before, so I'm not making up excuses. This move is already recorded.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

YOU ACTIVATED HIS TRAP CARD.

I'm playing the Yu-Gi-Oh card of black hole! Die! Die! Die!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In seriousness, someone need to explain why BTD is scum. (And why BTD > Realeo)

Granted, I see no town motivation,

but I also don't see the scum motivation

[ReallySick]

Before the lynch proceeds, if I flip town, will you still scumread BTD?

And If BTD gets lynched and BTD filp town, will you still scumread me?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Ah so you will scum read no matter who we flip. Recorded.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

[ReallySick]

UNVOTE:

Can someone gambit again? The game stalls again

~Realeo

Fixing the unvote tag.

[ReallySick]

I already scumread him before all of this gambit pileup.

I can confirm that from the mood of the whisper--(implicitly) he is going for Karnos/Murdercat

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Btw i'm a terrorist, so if anyone visits me or vengekills me, they will die. Along with me.
I'm disappointed with BTD's reaction though, i expected something, well more? I'm good with my vote now even if it started as a lolvote

if they are vengekilling you... that means

A. they have been lynched
B. You are gonna die

if they are vengekilling you and you are terrorist... that means
you are both gonna die.

fake

[ReallySick]

RS, I don't get your gambit. I am not saying murdercat is obv town, I really don't have that strong of a read on him, but the idea that your "gambit", if you can even call it that actually proves he is scum- it does not.

Good observation. It was an impromptu gambit and snap judgement so I didn't really give a thought.

The gambit was to check Karnos/Murdercat--and the fact you didn't vote me (despite being at L-2) kinda flusters me.

So I ask myself. "Will Karnos split vote?" I thought, if Karnos/Murdercat is indeed the correct scum, then they can't take risk of splitting vote me. Especially when they can escape with it by throwing the guilt to BTD. ("You stupid gambit!")

As I said, the gambit gives me reasons to move my vote--not exactly proof it.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Can someone explain to me why BTD is scum? It takes 5 votes to lynch so some explanation to get people into the wagon will be helpful..

I had my hunch about a Jae & D&A scum team,

One of them is possible. Two of them? If it's two of them, they will not resist voting me.
~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Is 1 hour enough to realize that the hammer is fake? Anyone here. I'm pretty much newbie here about forum experience.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

The only reason we want to lynch him D1 was becuase he didn't talk enough. Now? He talked. And if you notice, most of the talk he did when we want to lynch him was near post-VRS. You're naive to judge someone's quality of post for something a little bit after RVS.
~Relaeo

[ReallySick]

Can the people I whispered about the gambit please come forward?

Karnos gambit, right? Yeah. I got that whisper.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Why people are going karnos>Murdercat.

VOTE: Karnos

I will have to settle in 2nd trophy.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Pardon me, but can't mafia also say the same?

I can somewhat accept your argument about murdercat's lynch--but that is too much.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Nahdia really pushed me off RS.

I think Nahdia pushed you off me because our whisper? I am too lazy to contact you so I contact her--especially with the gambit. I figured out that if she's townreading you, she will whisper you about our conversation.

Apparently she didn't.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

So today's menu is {ReallySick,Karnos}. Let us focus here unless any of you can cook a new meal.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

@Karnos:
His logic tells me a story. He believes that he is being hammered so he claimed Seer (think troll), but he appear not to be lynched. By being "seer", he can gambit to see some reaction--which is why he kept his "seer". Charloux asked him personally if he's gambitting and he claimed so. Charloux told me so I play along with him. He claimed guilty on MURDERCAT--which is his scumread. He planned to 2nd gambit Karnos--but blown up by Charloux.

The puzzle fits along and his fos is consistent {Karnos,MURDERCAT} like ChipButty is being consistent with {Murdercat,RS,BTD}

It's not really an impossible story like you saw in reality show like The Mole.

Unless you can think another "hidden motive" behind his action--you tell me what is the possibility. Make it a narration like above

--------------------------------

If you think I'm scum for pushing you off RS, then the clear motive would be that RS is my partner, right? Well you flip RS first to see if he's scum, not lynch me, you're heavy townread. Jeeze.

A little bit of fallacy.

If I flip town, it proves that it's not D&A/Reallysick--but it doesn't proof D&A is not scum.

The only reason you should associate lynch me is if you think I'm the

only

possible scum partner for D&A. I mean, one extra reason for me to lynch MURDERCAT is I believe that the only scum partner for ChipButty is Murdercat/ChipButty. If MURDER flips town, I (personally) feel somewhat confident not scumreading ChipButty.
---------------------------------------
@Karnos: Do you know the gambit all along? I'm still flustered.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

I mean, the reason I ask why BTD>Reallysick was because he's consistent.

BTD limits himself to {Karnos,MurderCat}

We have voted BTD,Murdercat,BPLP,and Karnos. That's opportunistic as fuck and I for one surprised no one jumped on that. We have been literally on every wagon.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

I personally considered the possibility of Karnos/D&A. I mean, why you jumped fos to JaeReed and

only after I laid my gambit

you fos back BTD. A leaked bucket?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Popping in.

I'm REALLY not wanting Karnos here. Looking through his ISO, like all of his posts are like:

BTD is scum!
No really, BTD is scum
RS and BTD is scum!

He's been screAming the same exact thing in his Iso OVER and OVER.
How does this not read scum to you?

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

I am going to pop in back. Wee, thank you for coming!

@Karnos: Do I have a license to ignore you for a while? I feel like that either you're not reading things or you're dumbtelling--but I know you are smart so dumbtelling is impossible. I mean, you're making a lot of fallacies and actually flusters my process to townread you--like BNLP did, he's basically "Oh, I am a bad town. No wonder you're lynching me" (using Justin Beaber voice, if it helps)--but scumreading you for fallacies is also a fallacy.

Though, now I am starting to wonder if there is some RS BTD connection. You seem oddly aggressive towards me now that I really want to lynch BTD, isn't that a chainsaw?

MY TOWNREAD IS BEING VOTED. I AM BEING ODDLY AGGRESSIVE. DO YOU EXPECT ME TO RELAX WHEN THERE ARE VOTES IN MY TOWN READ? I MEAN, YOU

ALSO

WENT INTO THE TROUBLE OF CONVINCING ME THAT MURDERCAT IS TOWN IN WHISPER, SO NOW I CAN'T DO THE SAME?

Don't say that's "But BTD is not being lynched". You also argue Murdercat for me when only me is voting him, IIRIC.

Yes, you deserve caps.
~Realeo

[ReallySick]

because chip look at his ISO.
he literally has only been pushing a BTD lynch. this can mean two things;

(1) he is scum being very careful not hooping around on wagons.
(2) He has been pushing the wagon with least resistance the whole game.

[ReallySick]

~ Sick

[ReallySick]

I don't trust this. How does RS reach the conclusion he does in #855, given that last VC and the two votes in-between? Why no mention of BTD, who had two votes? Looks to me like BTD scumbuddy trying to get Town.karnos lynched.

Error on my brain. My apology.

Karnos

Let's try this, solve any misunderstaning in case this is dreadful Town v Town:

1) Which part of my D&A/Karnos argument don't you understand? I said you succeed on the gambit while Murdercat failed the gambit. But after I announced the gambit, you start fosing BTD (which is part of the fail gambit scenario). So the hypothesis is

D&A told you the gambit

so you passed the gambit by (awkwardly) voting JaeReed.

2) Am I D&A/RS or BTD/RS? We're closing to deadline so let's make our stand clear. My stand is Karnos/Murdercat, but I'm willing to change my opinion to Karnos/D&A at this point, but my Karnos/D&A is still not beyond reasonable doubt.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

I find it ironic that I townread everybody that JaeReed scumread and I scumread everybody that JaeReed townread. Complete mirror.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Can we have Karnos lynched tommorow? I tunnel scum read him and Jae is tunnel town read him.

One of us is wrong

and I personally can use some eye-opener. I tried to escape the tunnel like creating other association like considering Murdercat/JaeReed--but even creating a fos reasoning against them feels forced for me with Karnos in the alive list.

Is it too premature to push a d3 lynch? Maybe, but our concern is genuine.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

This is probably scum ^

"We can lynch my scum buddy today as long as we mislynch the next day, that will still give me a chance to win."

Honestly I could lynch you today too.

This is 100% valid accusation. Here's why I'm pushing.

If BTD flips town: I am fosed for towncreding
If BTD flips scum: I am fosed for buddying

How convenient. Double edged sword. I got wrong for any scenario. Why don't just go all out? I mean, it's super obvious I'm getting lynched tomorrow no matter the flip.

@JaeReed: You claimed to lynch BTD because he muddies the water. Say you lynch him,

a)Bang! He flips scum. Now what?
b)Bang! He flips town. Now what?

[ReallySick]

@Murdercat: Go hammer him if you think he is scum. We have 1 days left. Make your stand.

[ReallySick]

I'm going to give him a chance to post again. The fact that you are calling for a hammer without him posting is scummy as well.

Pardon me?

[ReallySick]

What frustrates me the most is:

Assume that BTD is town, so I, BNL, and BTD are mislynched; who will be the accused scum partner at LYLO?

The remaining 6 with high chance will accuse Charloux/ChipButty.

I don't think any of them is scum.

So see my frustration, no matter the flip

{Karnos,Murdecat,D&A} are never touched.

This is why I'm I pressing on one of them.

If I mislynched tomorrow, you will lynch LYLO in Charloux/ChipButty--I don't want that.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

No here's the thing.

I made

a big

argument (it's big for someone in vacation) why Karnos must be lynched while you just went with "stupid gambit"

If I mislynched Karnos,

I have to reconsider everything

. The whole hyphothesis shatters apart.
If you mislynch BTD, you people went "Oops. Well, it's his stupid mistake to gambit."

What I want is a detailed explanation.

I gave a big explanation, went into the trouble of playing second gambit--just to confirm my read.

I am proud of my shitty gambit, I am proud of that wall of post, because

I fight to get a read

. D1 was

hell

, total distortion, so I need to act to get a read on other people.

I CAN'T JUST WAIT FOR SOMETHING TO HAPPEN.

If I went into the same trouble, then I expect you to do the same. I want guarantee that if BTD is mislynched--we're learning something

instead of simple shurgs.

I mean

JaeReed

, you gave us detailed explanation why ChipButty and Murdercat is town, right?

I want a detailed explanation something like that.

I mean, who is his partner? The only partner of BTD is RS--because I defend him. Who else? Most of you are just being emotional now, I want to see their rational part.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

I am ok with you being in lylo. I personally have no feeling against you.

I just don't want to waste a day without learning something.

Mafia+Daytalk is already

annihilation

for town. The moment newbie queue implements whisper--the victory rate plummets--so we know this is going to be though, which is why I and sick being aggressive since first time--like messing up with ChipButty.

I mean, sickofit knows his meta that ChipButty is an asshole (which btw, Charloux easily agree at in our whisper.) Why waste my time (and my emotion) messing up with his brain unless we want to figure out what's going on?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

So you just went "Oh, well." if he flips town? That's it? Your thinking process is that short?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

@JaeReed: Aren't we lynching BTD now? I mean, I'm pressing on Karnos lynch for D3 because I sincerely gave up. It's too much for defending him. We(sickofit+Realeo) already warn him for the gambit before D2 starts, so I just give up when he being put at L-1. You have no idea the chaos (and warning) in our whisper.

It's mentally taxing. Go scumread for this giving up. I can't care anymore.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The other reason I keep shouting for explanation is I want to know if BTD flips scum, who is bussing him. Bussing him in the name of "shitty gambit" is too easy. I don't want scum to get away with bus.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

There. Give me your reasons please. If they don't make sense I can just move back.

I already gave me my long wall of post. I gave my reasoning of that shitty gambit. Go read.

We can lynch Karnos together or we can lynch BTD together. I have no problem if you can tell me something.

If you can't give me hard evidence,

then let me lower the bar

:

Who is BTD's scum partner? Why?

I propose {Murdercat,Karnos} because of the VCA and I propose {D&A, Karnos} That's the association. What's yours?

Mafia is a

association game

and the least we can do to learn from something is if you associate someone.

I don't mind if you can't explain me--people use their gut feeling and I personally have used them.

However, If you fos someone

but you can't even point a scum partner--that's a huge warning.

I mean, the reason that nobody wants your head is--who is your fucking partner? D&A?

It's not rocket science.

We can lynch Karnos together and I spread my reasoning before. We can also lynch BTD together but I need your reasoning. It's 10 pm in local time so I probably going to sleep. But we still have 24 hours something and it's not like I'm going to hibernate the whole deadline.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

I agree if you answer this question.

If I flip town and BTD flip town, now what?
If I flip town and BTD flip scum, now what?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Wait, town lose?

6-2 -> Karnos
5-2 -> Realeo
4-2 -> BTD

Ah right, we lose. I didn't consider that. I have to retract my agreement then.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Murdercat, if you want to lynch BTD so badly, don't mock me. Convince JaeReed. I did my part at defending BTD so do your part attacking BTD.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

I already finished since a lot of time. The only reason I'm convincing JR because he needs prompt. If that VCA and that gambit calculation is not enough, then oh well.

If Karnos is scum then I would admit my reads suck and you can lynch me.

Why would I lynch you? I put you as 1 of 2 Karnos' partner--but I'm not set on stone.

Townreading a scum

is not synonymous

auto mafia. Stop that kind of mentality.

My hope is JR will see through you independently.

I hope JR can see that if he can't point his scum partner, then he need to reconsider his read. I'm all ears if he can point BTD's scum partner.
~Realeo

[ReallySick]

If Karnos is town then I would be basically sure that BTD and RS are scum together

So if we mislynched Karnos and you mislynched on of us--you're confident that the other is not scum.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Good day. Can I have seer report, please?

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

There is no seer. BTD fakeclaimed.

I know, I know.

[ReallySick]

Since no one is talking (it's weekend afterall)

Spoiler: An unexplained tale about Reallysick v Charloux

Remember my discussion with Charloux?

Remember the [REDACTED] part?

You see, there're 2 ways to /in

>/confirmed
>I understand my alignment

When I confirmed, I went for /confirmed. BNLP also went for /confrimed. JaeReed went for I understand my alignment.

So I ask, why people went lazy for /confirmed. I make hypothesis that we are being lazy because we are getting VT--again.

It's kinda ironic how I townread him but later lynch him

The reason I [redacted] the reasoning is because to explain my hunch--I have to out that I am Vanilla Townie. At that point, we're still speculating of seer. Now, we believe that it's mountanious--so I don't see any danger anymore.

[ReallySick]

Correction; ChipButty not Charloux

~Relaeo

[ReallySick]

If I recalled correctly, it is BTD's meta to make joke about others people role.

So BTD making joke about BPLP is not a BPLP is a normal thing.

The ninja jokes though...

[ReallySick]

It's on my mind lately, but has anybody made a 3-person PT yet?

We did.

Sickofit created RS+BTD+BNLP so he can push on CB. When BNLP dies, I used it to converse about the gambit.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

I wanted RS to give his "case" and he didn't

I already did with the vote count. It's wrong, fine. But don't say I didn't make my "case".

I keep saying

"We can lynch Karnos together or We can lynch BTD together"

. I keep challenging Murdercat to hammer but he didn't want to,

so it would have to be me who hammer BTD

. This is why I keep asking "Who is the scum partner?".

I can't hammer BTD blindly

.

Spoiler: And for people who accuse RS/BTD

It's easier for me to bus BTD instead of defending BTD. Get your mind together. With JaeReed being the pretty much being town read and JaeReed townreading Murdercat and JaeReed, I can't get away with murder. It will be easier for me to bus him, vengekill in {D&A,Murdercat} and I can convince Charloux. Charloux has been talking with me extensively.

It takes 3 people to lynch in {JR,ChipButty,Charloux,Realeo} If I convince Charloux to push on CB. Boom! {JR,Charloux,Real}, JR expressed fos on Charl before so I know the odds.

The only reason I will defend BTD if I am scum will be for towncreding.

So one mafia in {RS,BTD}, very possible.

Two mafia? Do the math.

I didn't see D&A hammer coming in my calculation tbh.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Oh and BTW.

VOTE: ChipButty

I still need to confirm meta with Sickofit38, so hang tight!

[ReallySick]

lol. I think I owed sick an apology ><

[ReallySick]

Good question!

By process of elimination--I considered ChipButty/BTD (double apology) or D&A/CB (apology)

But ChipButty/BTD seems to be unlikely by interaction--like JR/D&A. So I have to go for D&A/CB.

About the reasoning, I will explain later until sick confirms my observation. About the apology, sickofit fos CB and BTD--but I keep vetoing him.
~Realeo

[ReallySick]

But ChipButty/BTD seems to be unlikely by interaction--like JR/D&A. So I have to go for D&A/CB.

The reason I crossed out CB/BTD because CB was consistently shooting BTD for almost 2 complete days. I mean, maf do bus, but do they bus that long? Is BTD is so scummy that CB can't change his fos?

[ReallySick]

I don't get your first pointer.

About your second pointer, It was made clear that JR, MC, RS are still debating. I mean, that debate is like 3 pages with me using big font and colorful font.

I used the font red. It turned out, red is not enough to attract people.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

@ChipButty:
Hey Mister-I-Never-Mislynch. Start voting BTD.

[ReallySick]

My first point is that the statements I quoted from you appear to be at odds with each other.

Also, red is Ranger's color in this game. Might be an idea to highlight using another color.

Yeah, I forgot.

And I still don't understand the odds. I mean, I completely understand your train of thought--but do you even read the context of the text?

In the light of karnos' lynch, I'm more inclined to vote within Yellow atm. Pretty sure at least one wolf there.

Start voting then. The earlier the more glorious your MVP title.

[ReallySick]

@ChipButty:
Hey Mister-I-Never-Mislynch. Start voting BTD.

Also, this kind of sounds like you might be trying to start another mislynch wagon.

So BTD is town now? I thought it was BTD/RS.

And seriously Mr.ChipButty.

Put your mouth where your money is

. You keep fosing but never push for your fos.

[ReallySick]

I mean, Mr.ChipButty. The reason I fos you now is that you always play the "pass the buck" game style and most of your comment is "the filler style"--which is why BNLP get lynched in first place.

[ReallySick]

So vote me then, Mr.MVP. We have done this before on D1. I ask for you voting me and you obediently vote me before fleeing away to vote Murdercat.

[ReallySick]

And now that karnos has flipped green, we know his proposed gambit was on the up-and-up. So BTD's subversion of it looks scummier.

So many suspects, so little room for mislynches.

Like, even we know this. You don't need to tell us. I mean, I have considered it to an extent that I'm starting to considering CB/BTD.

[ReallySick]

Warning! Wall of Post

I might as well start explaining since I forgot now is 3 AM in America while it's 3 PM in Indonesia.

The reason I fos CB is for this.

I'm thinking BTD/RS at this point.

<Ahem> Make sure you spell my name right on my MVP award. It's "Butty" with teo "t"s.

Seriously Jae - you knew D&A was going to sheep you but you didn't bother reading? You're usually so conscientious - I find it a bit hard to believe, tbh...

In mafia, there are something that we call as

Gloating tell

This is very classic that mafia can't just stop telling how good they are or how bad is something or whatever.

JaeReed used this once. He fosed Charloux because of the gloating.

What makes ChipButty's special is that he claimed to be more cautious now, so the fact he's counting the egg before they hatch alerts me.

I agree with this.
I'm still slightly reading chipbutty as scum still.

@Chipbutty

I like the analytic style better. It's a better town style then what you are doing now. You shouldn't change it IMO

I guess the game you're referring to mainly is Open 640, the one we played in together, right? If you go back and look at that, you'll see that I did place two joke votes at the start (Kappy, Aneninen) and, more importantly, that I came out of RVS thinking both were scum, when they were not. Also, I thought you were scum, and prob Shotty too, and you were both Town too. So,

I'm being a little more cautious

. Also, as you and others have pointed out, there hasn't been a great deal of public posting, so there really isn't much to go on yet. If you see something you think is scummy, and it isn't me, by all means point it out and I'll look at it. If it

is

me, I'll try to alleviate your concerns as best I can.

What makes this more important is that CB is known to be erratic. An erratic player known to be cautious--they can push very strong--but they still remain cautious. For example, piratemollie is somewhat erratic--but when she see fos--she push on it. Mislynch? Ouch. Correct lynch? Yas. But 100% live moves on. It's not over

Erratic player are counter-intuitively wary about their fos--because they're more likely to be lynched (for their erraticness) so they need to make their fos counts.

The reason I'm currently enquiring Sick is I want to know what kind of erratic of him and I can't be impartial now. There is a chance that he is not the kind of erratic that I was assuming and I have to drop your fos.

For now. Boom.
~Realeo

Pedit: That 147 doesn't count? It's a lead question. I mean, you're constantly fosing me at that point so like it's not obvious I'm inviting you to vote me.

[ReallySick]

I will check this.

[ReallySick]

Nah. I think I will be biased. I was just 5 post and saw "OMG, This is proof!"

You know tunnel vision, it sucks. Potentially after I sleep--to reset my brain.
~Relaeo