Micro 617: Pokémon Episode 5 GAME OVER

[lilith2013]

Ooh competing wagons, how fun!

VOTE: justin trudeau

[lilith2013]

*sigh*...

[lilith2013]

Do you think there's some kind of significance to Swords specifically asking you stuff?

[lilith2013]

Equally tempted . got a dumb gut read on ^ as well....

Hey bella, when you posted this were you referring to a scumread on swords or a townread?

[lilith2013]

I'm townreading Smart but kinda don't like Ari's posting, so.. Not really sure what that sums up to.

[lilith2013]

Ranger, did you read NM's flip?

[lilith2013]

Hmm. I don't disagree, content-wise I haven't contributed all that much, but Swords is probably one of the players who's best at reading me. I'm curious what he thinks is "obvtown" though.

What do you mean by this part:

scum wouldn't want townies to step up their play and work harder to scumhunt

[lilith2013]

Urgh sorry, just started training at work and I'm being really lazy about all my games >< rereading now.

[lilith2013]

Jk, my phone is dying so I'll do this when I can get to an outlet.

[lilith2013]

Sorry guys I probably should have gone VLA this week >< I'm townreading BBT and obviously Bella. I still haven't reread and I apologize.

[lilith2013]

Can people pls get in here and talk about their reads on Sword >.<

Obviously Sword and I agree on reading Ranger as scum, but that alone isn't enough to put them solidly in the town corner.

Looking back, I'm somewhat surprised no one called Sword out on 176 when he questioned SirCakez's confidence in his belief that the Ranger lynch would be a mislynch, while Sword has been strongly confident in his scum read of Ranger for some time now.

What is there to call out? Hypocrisy in itself isn't a scumtell. Scumreading someone who flips scum isn't as suspicious as townreading someone who seems to be generally scumread for little to no reason and them flipping town. Of course, we don't know which it is yet, but I'm curious what you think is questionable about this.

Having said that, I'd still be more inclined to scum read SirCakez, if only because SirCakez's read on Ranger is essentially based on gut while Sword has provided more evidence and stayed solid in his position for longer.

This point is basically invalid because Cakes was a replacement and he voiced his townread on Ranger almost immediately. You can't compare "staying solid" on a position when Cakes wasn't even here to have a position at the time Swords began scumreading Ranger.

I still don't know what my read on Swords is, but I'm good with this:

VOTE: Racefan

[lilith2013]

Flash wagons from nowhere nearly always catch scum! /sarcasm

The amount of posturing prior to the Race wagon is laughable.

? So you're saying that race is town? And whose posturing exactly, mine? Ranger's? Do you think that the race wagon is a counterwagon to Ranger or to Swords? Or neither?

Quite frankly I'm not totally comfortable with lynching either Swords or Ranger, and this is my compromise.

[lilith2013]

Actually I'm leaning towards Swords being scum, Ari doesn't feel at all like his usual carefree (foot-in-mouth) self. Need to reread Smart's ISO by himself later and compare to some other games.

[lilith2013]

What the hell this game makes literally no sense

[lilith2013]

I think it's BBT.

[lilith2013]

Cakes is almost certainly town, because he hammered Ranger at deadline, when he could have refused or just not posted.
Racefan is the counterwagon that Ranger put at L-1.
That leaves BBT or Bella. I was originally townreading BBT for how he unvoted Ranger yesterday but now that she's flipped scum that's not as towny as it was.
I can possibly see the existence of a miller plus godfather so I'm thinking Bella's claim is still true but her play (i.e. being off the Ranger wagon) is probably more damning than BBT's.

Just to point out, Smart was townreading me (and I would say fairly strongly) as he always does when I'm town and I would have absolutely zero reason to kill them as scum.

[lilith2013]

Question Lilith (plus a statement).

Why does SC's hammer of Ranger give him townpoints but my re-joining of the Ranger wagon at a critical time does not?

I did say Bella's play yesterday was more damning, but while Cakes hammering at deadline is an absolutely ridiculous play to make as scum, I could maybe see voting a scumbuddy happen a little farther out from the deadline, if you felt like the wagon was headed in that direction.

I said it was you mostly because between you and Bella I wanted to believe Bella's miller claim but now I'm kind of thinking it's her.

Sword was the obvious kill, whoever is scum. Sword would almost have been obv town after their push on Ranger, given her flip. That's why I don't particularly like your confusion at the start of day, it doesn't make sense.

My confusion was over the part where Cake and race are very likely to be town because of yesterday, but I was townreading you and Bella. So either Cakes/race is not town even though they should be, or one of my townreads is wrong--either my townread of you (and you were basically my strongest townread from play yesterday) or Bella's miller claim was fake. Which is pretty gutsy for scum.

[lilith2013]

My initial thoughts are that I still believe Bella's claim, and that Cakez's behavior at the end of yesterday makes me believe he's most likely town as well. So I'll need to take a closer look at lilith and BBT.

I can possibly see the existence of a miller plus godfather so I'm thinking Bella's claim is still true but her play (i.e. being off the Ranger wagon) is probably more damning than BBT's.

Why do you consider her not being on the Ranger wagon as evidence against her when you weren't on the wagon either?

I never said that couldn't be used as evidence against me--which it probably will be--just that it's evidence against Bella. Between Bella and BBT, Bella being off the wagon is scummier than BBT being on the wagon. Regardless of whether I was on or off the wagon.

[lilith2013]

Ok got what I needed from UTL
VOTE: lilith
Pretty sure this is last scum

Omfg

[lilith2013]

Side note, I'd like for a flavor claim to happen and I'm fine with going first.

[lilith2013]

I believe it was a little over a day, if my math is right.

Ranger joined her own counterwagon on race instead of pushing swords until the end of the day, which makes no sense to do to a scumbuddy.

[lilith2013]

Oh, I wasn't counting her being a godfather. I guess it does make sense if she's trying to sacrifice her buddy in order to survive and hope for a cop clear.

Okay, well you were townreading race yesterday but it sounds like you're not anymore?

Let me reread and get back to you, but I'm fairly sure the answer is that you unvoted Ranger in order to reread and then didn't place your vote anywhere else for a while--I thought it was unopportunistic/un-scum motivated or whatever you want to call it.

[lilith2013]

Okay yeah that's pretty much it? Cakes asked you who you were scumreading other than Ranger and you said you needed to read the game properly and unvoted, and that came across as genuine to me because I'd think that as scum you kind of know who you want to push already or at least would have more people on your suspect list. (Also in retrospect, you not having any scumreads other than Ranger seems pretty towny to me, since you'd want to at least set up for a mislynch the next day if you were bussing your partner.)

[lilith2013]

Well BBT is now my top townread again. That was a bit of a roller coaster.

[lilith2013]

Side note, I'd like for a flavor claim to happen and I'm fine with going first.

[lilith2013]

Does this massclaim include roles or just flavor?

[lilith2013]

Actually same?

I'm James (as in Team Rocket). I can fullclaim as well.

[lilith2013]

And I'm James, and beeboy was Meowth, and Brock (gym leader) is scum and Misty is also a gym leader. But then town people flipped as Ash and Ash's Pidgeotto, I think.

[lilith2013]

So why exactly did you think I was scum?

[lilith2013]

I don't really know what you want from me here? What information did you get from the mod that convinced you I'm scum?

It's a little unfair for you to say I constantly avoided the Ranger wagon because I was staying away from both major wagons? Like even though I was leaning towards scum!Swords I wasn't by any means prepared to vote for them and I even said I wanted to reread some of Smart's towngames first. Which I didn't get around to but that's because RL stuff has been getting in the way of mafia.

This is intent to hammer racefan, I guess. I'm not super convinced he's scum but it's not Cakes and it's probably not BBT and it's maybe not Bella. So.

[lilith2013]

Thanks radja <3

I was mostly waiting for you to reply to me, cakes. And then it was my birthday and I forgot.

VOTE: racefan

Like I said, I'm not totally convinced it's racefan but I'm not sure who else it would be. so.

[lilith2013]

I want to hear your claim tomorrow.

[lilith2013]

Hfkskfkanjrajjetjs stahp.

What's your mod info that makes you think I'm scum?

[lilith2013]

oh yeah
I was a Town Thundershocker a.k.a Roleblocker
I shocked you night 2 and I had to ask UTL if my action went through or not since Ash died. It didn't, so you could have still done the kill. If it had gone through then you would have been cleared.
Yume didn't send an action also night 1

What do you mean by it didn't go through? Like it was never received?

[lilith2013]

I'm honestly so confused because both of you were on the Ranger wagon and like I just don't understand. But I guess it is possible that you were bussing in order to sail through to LYLO on towncred.

[lilith2013]

Um... Shouldn't that roleblock have still been enabled, since roleblocks come before kills in NAR?

[lilith2013]

Uh... Can we ask Radja? Cause that doesn't seem right.

[lilith2013]

Well, that should confirm me as town, since either you're telling the truth and you did roleblock me, or you're lying and scum.

Also, power-wise, it doesn't make sense to weaken town's power by making their roles enabled, while giving scum a godfather AND roleblocker. That is, if you're actually a town RB.

I think it's possible that you saw the town enabler and came up with the idea to make me look scummier by saying you weren't enabled on the night I would have made the NK (I'm not sure whether enablers are usually generic and enable all town PRs, or only enable one specific PR, or also enable scum PRs??).

It's also possible there was some confusion between UTL/Radja but I don't get why he wouldn't answer you in PM but he did answer here. Maybe your question was too specific? His answer here was extremely generic. It doesn't help that Radja never gives us the full flip, just the name.

[lilith2013]

Merp.

What do you want me to say here? I already explained why I wasn't on the Ranger wagon, I think. You also know what my scumgame looks like. And if you're not lying about being a roleblocker who was enabled by Swords then I should be confirmed as town.

[lilith2013]

Does strongman go through RB? I thought that was just protectives. Or do you mean ascetic?

Anyway I'm not hammering (yet)

[lilith2013]

No shit I'm town.

Again, based on Radja's answer, Cakes is either telling the truth about roleblocking me and therefore I'm confirmed town, or he's lying and therefore from your point of view I am still town. This shouldn't be news to you.

I am thinking it's BBT.

[lilith2013]

It still makes less sense for Cakes to hammer 10 minutes before deadline

Unless it was for towncred

But seriously idgi

I also really hate being the hammer. I just did this for a newbie. Ergh.

[lilith2013]

I mean,

when you get roleblocked it's usually pretty clear

so I'm not sure why you were acting so confused.

??

An Enabler enabling me dying in the same night + unknown scum PR

??

[lilith2013]

Tbh neither of your responses made me any less confused by what you said.

[lilith2013]

Ugh I'm sorry I just really don't want to be in this position.

How is it easy to tell if you've been roleblocked? Because (I think this is what Cakes was saying) if your enabler died in the night you made an action, that might be the reason your action didn't go through.

It still doesn't make sense for UTL to say that he wasn't enabled that night though, if he was.

Cakes, can you paraphrase the part in your role about enabling?

[lilith2013]

Then how did you know that you were enabled by Ash?

What exactly did you ask UTL?

[lilith2013]

And what did she say?

[lilith2013]

Okay I don't really see Cakes coming up with this elaborate ruse about enabling and UTL pming him and then Radja confirming the opposite of what he said, because it just seems such an easy lie to get caught up in. soooooo

VOTE: BBT

fingers crossed.

[lilith2013]

Well????

[lilith2013]

Well, I actually watched the episode this weekend, and Nurse Joy also doesn't fit into the theme of everyone else's claims. So there's that.

[lilith2013]

Lilith rocking the lylos right now. X

/pre-in for next Pokemon

Guys I'm on episode 25 help