Micro 622: Queen Mafia GAME OVER

[Elyse]

LET'S GO

VOTE: Elyse

Your Avatar irritates me.

??? I hadn't posted at that point.

VOTE: Iprobablysuck

OMGUS + stupid username

Also I can't be the only one who thought the theme was like, Queens, as in rulers and not the band

[Elyse]

Vote him

[Elyse]

Because I think pressure will be useful in reading him

[Elyse]

I hate when people say "RVS is over so I'll unvote" but that's probably not alignment indicative.

My belief that IPS would react to pressure was based on him saying three votes on someone was a lot.

VOTE: Aristophanes

I agree with FA and duppin.

[Elyse]

Oh I find it VERY suspicious, I just don't like how she pushes somebody into L-1 this early and the only reasoning she gives is ''I agree with FA and duppin'' if that's not a sheep vote I don't know what is.

VOTE: Elyse

Was going to do that earlier but forgot.

Very well, I agree.

I don't think #32 makes much sense given the context of #30.

This @ TTH

@IPS
Yes my vote is a sheep...sorry I don't have groundbreaking information every time I post.

Though I didn't realize my vote was L-1. Should've checked that.

Postie is town.

[Elyse]

So what should I say then? Give me an example of what I should have said when I voted Aris.

Postie's read on FA seems very genuine. He's going against the grain and there are multiple avenues for him to take if he were scum going for a lynch. I don't see him going for FA out of everyone.

[Elyse]

''I feel Aristophanes is scum because he tried to throw shade on IPS and then defended him after I told him to vote IPS, so I agree with Fire and Duppin'' (or whatever else you have to say on the matter)

Basically give your opinions on the case, explain WHY you agree with it, and add anything else you might want to add.

Just saying ''I agree'' doesn't help anyone. Saying WHY you agree at least adds to discussion.

Saying "I agree" accomplishes the same thing because there was never any question as to what I was talking about but ok.

Postie's read on FA seems very genuine. He's going against the grain and there are multiple avenues for him to take if he were scum going for a lynch. I don't see him going for FA out of everyone.

Not really following you here. What do you mean?

Hard to explain. Postie's FA suspicion just doesn't seem like something scum would do right now. Aris is getting run up, there's some heat on me, FA is probably getting looked upon favorably because of the Aris wagon. It'd be a weird time for him to switch focus onto FA under no pressure as scum. It just feels genuine.

[Elyse]

I'm guessing FA is going to say I'm scum with Aris for saying that FA is looked upon favorably for the Aris wagon which is stupid since I obviously meant that he's at the forefront of the Aris push. He looks good for scumhunting and stuff. And I'm also scumreading Aris, so if you incorrectly interpreted it as me saying he'll look good because Aris is flipping scum, that's in line with my reads.

If it's something else then idk lol.

[Elyse]

My townread on Fire comes from post 96. I liked his case on Elyse.

lol

That case is shit.

[Elyse]

My townread on Fire comes from post 96. I liked his case on Elyse.

lol

That case is shit.

More deep, epic insight from the goddess of Mafia.

Other than the fact it's against you, why is the case shit?

It's literally "Elyse is aware of what's going on in this game and is looking at it from a perspective of 'what scum would do'". No shit. That's how I scumhunt.

@TTH
Do you think Postie is buddying me?

[Elyse]

@TTH

Postie couldn't really justify the wagon. She had a hard time explaining her read. That's part of the reason why it struck me as so town. The purpose of the FA switch wasn't to distract from current wagons or start a quick counter wagon because, at least from my PoV, her vote isn't something anyone will follow.

[Elyse]

No you didn't.

You're saying that I'm scum for looking at the game from a scum perspective...this is how you scumhunt. You are doing it too by saying that scum would look through the game from a scum perspective. Your case is one of the worst I've ever seen on this site and that's saying something.

I don't know if you're really misguided or scum though. Bullet sheeping you is awful as well and I have taken note of that.

[Elyse]

I've pointed out the flaws in the case. You're scumreading me for thinking from a scum perspective to scumhunt. That is terrible. There's no way around it. I don't understand how you actually think that is it a legitimate case.

If it weren't for Bullet's sheep I would be scumreading you, but I think he could be trying to take advantage of you and pass the blame should I ever flip.

There were already two votes on me so there's motivation right there to fabricate a case on someone with an already established wagon.

[Elyse]

I think he could be trying to take advantage of you and pass the blame should I ever flip.

[Elyse]

I don't see a scumteam working in tandem like that.

Why not?

[Elyse]

Unlesss you can do good preflip associations, they are usually not good in my experience.

Lol

@FA
Now you're just being ridiculous. That's like saying "why don't scum claim scum because no one would expect them to do that!" There comes a point where certain patterns can be attributed to scum and town alike. I don't see two scum in a nine player game sheeping one another this early on with a terrible case to boot.

[Elyse]

Wow nice catch. Fire did the same thing as me but only I'm scum for it.

[Elyse]

VOTE: BulletNLynchproof

His scumread on me is so lazy and the only time he's addressed me lately is to say he's "unsure" of my posting. He's not engaged with most of the players and hasn't even addressed the accusations against him regarding his awful sheeping of FA's "case".

[Elyse]

and hasn't even addressed the accusations against him regarding his awful sheeping of FA's "case".

This is wrong by the way.

I probably didn't explain 102 properly. I was townreading Fire for his case on Elyse, but I didn't agree with the case. I was scumreading Elyse for other reasons.

Missed this.

Townreading someone for a case but disagreeing with them is stupid and scummy. It's like you're trying to appease Fire without having to take the same stance as him.

I also think it's bullshit and you are only saying you didn't agree with it now. There's no way you would have simply said "I liked his case on Elyse" if you didn't agree with it.

And what are your "other reasons" besides that one post where you said I was fake?

[Elyse]

Wow nice catch. Fire did the same thing as me but only I'm scum for it.

Who was this directed to? The only person who posted between this and your previous post is duppin, but I didn't see him mention any scumread on you in those two posts.

duppin - I was saying that Fire called me scum for something he did too.

Gut, and the last time I saw someone use emotion defensively, they were scum.

This is just awful.

Can we please lynch Bullet

[Elyse]

Bullet always does what?

[Elyse]

says weird things that make him commonly scumread

tbf I have never seen his scumgame, but I have erroneously scumread him in 2/2 games I was with him as town, and used him as a lynch in another game where I was scum and he was a 3p lyncher

So how are you supposed to tell the difference if you don't know his scum game?

That's a really weak reason

[Elyse]

Good with an Aris or Bullet lynch

[Elyse]

239 pings me so hard. The overjustified, apologetic unvote of Bullet, the slight shade at Postie, the ridiculous defense of Bullet at the end when you were voting him like two posts earlier.

That was such an awkward and complete backoff of Bullet for "towny toned posts that you missed". Like are you even reading the game? You've "missed" a crazy amount of posts.

I wouldn't be surprised with a Bullet/Aris scumteam.

[Elyse]

VOTE: Aristophanes

L-1

[Elyse]

No.

There was an attempt to counter wagon on me and one on Bullet.

I am townreading everyone on the wagon and strongly scumreading Aris.

[Elyse]

There was an attempt to counter wagon on me and one on Bullet.

Those have had zero traction though. And the fact that the Aristo wagon has sprung up so organically and no one is being particularly forceful about it I feel rules out the possibility of scum bussing.
This is a mislynch. Unvote.

I am townreading everyone on the wagon and strongly scumreading Aris.

a) Why are you townreading the people on the wagon?
b) Even if everyone on the wagon were town, what does that have anything to do with Aristo's alignment?

You ruled out bussing but then ask why everyone being town on the wagon has to do with Aris' alignment. Lol. Bussing this early on day 1 in a micro when Aris isn't an obvious lynch is an unlikely move for scum so a wagon with a bunch of townies on it looks good to me.

Not going through my reasons for townreading the three of them, do you disagree with any?

[Elyse]

Are you seriously trying to argue that a town led wagon is more likely to be scum?

Your reason for voting GL is bad.

[Elyse]

That question didn't make sense.

*town led wagon more likely to be on town

[Elyse]

Except both of us agreed bussing is unlikely. So what wagon composition should I be looking for?

GL didn't back down or take a wishy-washy position when you questioned him which makes me think his intention was to scumread you.

[Elyse]

^great post

[Elyse]

TTH you scumreading Ari?

Did you just ask someone if they are scumreading the person they are voting for?

I want updated thoughts from you on the game.

[Elyse]

Why are you scumreading me again?

[Elyse]

239 pings me so hard. The overjustified, apologetic unvote of Bullet, the slight shade at Postie, the ridiculous defense of Bullet at the end when you were voting him like two posts earlier.

That was such an awkward and complete backoff of Bullet for "towny toned posts that you missed". Like are you even reading the game? You've "missed" a crazy amount of posts.

I wouldn't be surprised with a Bullet/Aris scumteam.

[Elyse]

Ok so nothing?

Gotcha.

You know the longer you hold onto the terrible scumread on me, the worse you look. I thought you were just offended that I called your case terrible (which it was) but you should be over it by now. :/

[Elyse]

Ok so nothing?

Gotcha.

You know the longer you hold onto the terrible scumread on me, the worse you look. I thought you were just offended that I called your case terrible (which it was) but you should be over it by now. :/

I don't believe my previous case was nothing, and I don't even know how if my read was based on little or nothing it would be a "Gotcha". You are on odd on to think in this line of thoughts.

The gotcha was as in "your read is based on nothing, got it".

@Postie
I want to lynch Aris more

[Elyse]

You are pushing a counterwagon

[Elyse]

Sure. But I'm town.

I don't know about that

I was townreading you

But not anymore

I think the scumteam is within this group of four:

Aris, FA, Postie, NBL

But then again the Wingback slot is a mystery so idk

[Elyse]

Sure. But I'm town.

I don't know about that

I was townreading you

But not anymore

I think the scumteam is within this group of four:

Aris, FA, Postie, NBL

But then again the Wingback slot is a mystery so idk

Okay your scum team is in a group of four players, when their is nine players total in the game. You have just slightly below 50% of the player base in your group of possible scum.

I really think that is horrible on every level.

Why? I've cut my scum pool in half. What's so horrible about that?

You're literally blowing things up to try to make me look bad and now you're backtracking on your read like I thought you would earlier.

FA jumped up on my scum list.

[Elyse]

You're literally blowing things up to try to make me look bad and now you're backtracking on your read like I thought you would earlier.

FA jumped up on my scum list.

How am I backtracking on my read?

"Wow Elyse is terrible for narrowing her scum pool to 4" (lol @ that and you not responding to it) "but that probably makes her town"

You're saying that something I did is bad and then saying I'm probably not scum for it. That's backtracking.

[Elyse]

You're literally blowing things up to try to make me look bad and now you're backtracking on your read like I thought you would earlier.

FA jumped up on my scum list.

How am I backtracking on my read?

"Wow Elyse is terrible for narrowing her scum pool to 4" (lol @ that and you not responding to it) "but that probably makes her town"

You're saying that something I did is bad and then saying I'm probably not scum for it. That's backtracking.

Okay? I think what you mean to say is that I am adjusting my reads based on new information, but alright, I am "backtracking"

What do you think of conversation between Postie and TTH right now?

Nah I'd call it backtracking. You also still haven't addressed that you called narrowing my scum pool to four horrible despite it being a normal, helpful thing to do. Why did you do that?

I don't care about the Postie/TTH convo. I am noting how you're trying to change the subject.

[Elyse]

@FA

You also still haven't addressed that you called narrowing my scum pool to four horrible despite it being a normal, helpful thing to do. Why did you do that?

[Elyse]

Why would GL hop off the Aris wagon when it was at L-1 to vote you if both you and Aris are town?

[Elyse]

Ok...

Idk I don't see scumGL hopping off an Aris mislynch that was about to happen where he would have gotten no heat, to a Postie mislynch where he will get heat. Especially since (no offense) you don't have the influence to get him lynched with your scumread on him.

TownGL changing his mind seems much more believable.

[Elyse]

Ok

[Elyse]

I do think it is possible you are town, but I don't think your play has been towny at all and I simply can't understand the motivation behind what you did with Aristo. I'll gladly admit that I'm perhaps reading a bit too much into it. That does not really change the fact that I find your play rather suspicious. I also feel like you're OMGUS'ing quite a bit, but I could be wrong so I'd really like to hear your reads.

Ooh I hate this post. And every time duppin says "to be honest" or "honestly" I wince.

BNL joins my townpool! And no, that's not because something something reverse OMGUS. It's because the way he's jumping on and off my wagon makes little sense from a scum PoV.

RE: OMGUS accusations - just because I am scumreading the people on my wagon does not mean I am OMGUSing them. I'll go into detail on my reads in a bit so you have a clearer picture of where I'm at.

I agree with this. BNL has become a townread for me.

I'd much rather lynch Aristophanes than Postie today. I think they make sense as a team but imo, I can't see Postie's buddy being anyone

but

Aristophanes, whereas Aristophanes makes more sense with other people. I know this is stupid for D1 associations but Aristophanes has had a grand total of 0 posts that make me look town. Postie's reads are pretty good even if I disagree with some of them and she's had moments that make me think she's town. I was townreading her until recently.

Tentative townread on Wingback. I liked the post but like GL said, it was pretty much in line what everyone has been saying.

@Fire Assassin
Stop ignoring me. I've asked you multiple times and bolded it. Why did you say that narrowing down the scumpool was something "horrible"?

[Elyse]

@Fire Assassin
Stop ignoring me. I've asked you multiple times and bolded it. Why did you say that narrowing down the scumpool was something "horrible"?

The way it was narrowed down had a majority of players in it, and the way it was organized seemed like it could be lining up lynches.

I almost wanted to ignore this post again btw, don't know what made me decide to answer it, I guess my morning is pretty bright.

That doesn't make sense. The

way

it was narrowed down? I said that I've cut my scumpool in half, so that is actually wrong. It's not the majority. Plus, my reads aren't set in stone, as shown by my townread on BNL. And if you think that's lining up lynches, then you could say that to anyone who lists their townreads basically. Complete bullshit.

FA is a scumread of mine. After I badgered him about his shitty scumread on me, he blew up something that I did as "horrible" (even though it wasn't) just so he could say "actually that was so bad that it means Elyse is town :/". It fits into his narrative of being pissed at me but also allows him to get rid of his godawful read he's been sticky with since the beginning.

Ooh I hate this post. And every time duppin says "to be honest" or "honestly" I wince.

Well to be honest I honestly don't care.

Why do you hate the post though?

That's not the way I'd expect you to talk to someone whose wagon you engineered and is currently sitting at L-1. It's like you're already trying to wash your hands of the Postie lynch before it happened. "It's possible you're town even though nothing you've done is townie" is a stupid statement in its own right and the rest of it is just a giant fencesit. "I'll gladly admit I'm reading too much into it, but you're play is still suspicious." "I feel like you're OMGUSing but I could be wrong." Like...? You're not taking any stances, contradicting yourself, and seem almost apologetic about your scumread on Postie.

And this is on someone whose wagon you started and is sitting at L-1.

It just feels really off to me, and another reason I'd rather lynch Aristophanes.

[Elyse]

FA is a scumread of mine. After I badgered him about his shitty scumread on me, he blew up something that I did as "horrible" (even though it wasn't) just so he could say "actually that was so bad that it means Elyse is town :/". It fits into his narrative of being pissed at me but also allows him to get rid of his godawful read he's been sticky with since the beginning.

I think we have different perspectives of what is scummy and town, which is pretty apparent. I don't believe I said I was pissed at you, but your thought process does annoy me. For instance this "blew up something that I did" it just fits into your own narrative, which is funny because you say I have a narrative to apparently change my read on you for, what reasons?

Because I called you out on your shitty read and you couldn't back it up. It made you look bad so you said my narrowing down the scum pool was "so horrible it's town" when it wasn't horrible at all.

[Elyse]

First off, I can see town thinking that the way another player is pushing a case is townish, while also thinking that they are wrong. I don't understand why you think that's unlikely.

I think that's more likely to come from scum. I just don't see a townie reading a case, disagreeing with it, and then townreading someone for it. Like if the case is good, why do you disagree with it? It makes more sense coming from an informed point of view.

Secondly, Postie townread TTH right after TTH made a case on her (Post 115 and Post 116). I assume Postie disagrees with the case if she's town. Why isn't that scummy but BNL townreading someone for a case he disagrees with, scummy?

It's different when the case is about yourself. A lot of people townread others for being suspicious of themselves. I don't know if it's accurate but some people do it.

Why would Aristo be apologetic to his scumbuddy in thread? It would make more sense if you argued that Aristo was backing off and apologizing to a town-BNL to make sure he doesn't antagonize him, but then you call the two of them a scumteam.

You're right. It makes more sense if BNL is town.

[Elyse]

My point is that your case was so bad that if you actually pursued it, people would take notice and give you heat for it. Hence the back off

[Elyse]

I just don't see a townie reading a case, disagreeing with it, and then townreading someone for it. Like if the case is good, why do you disagree with it? It makes more sense coming from an informed point of view.

BNL never said he thought the case was good. He just said he was townreading Fire for the case. That could mean any number of things most likely scenarios being that BNL thought Fire's thought process was town, or that he though Fire's aggression was town, or that he thought Fire sounded like he believed in his case even if he BNL saw it as misguided.

You're right. It makes more sense if BNL is town.

Why did you think they were scumbuddies at that point?

First thing is more theory I guess. I disagree but there's no point in arguing.

Idk I probably had confbias.

[Elyse]

Meh I'd have rather lynched Aris but hopefully Postie is scum.

[Elyse]

I thought the scum slip was acting as if Aristophanes flipped scum. But I guess he could just be really confident about that?

[Elyse]

GL or duppin for Aris' partner

[Elyse]

VOTE: Wingback

Lol

Glad Fire was killed cause I thought he might be scum.

Wingback trying to push that bs on GL is laughable. Reads to me as scum planning on pushing GL and getting their plans foiled.

If it's not Wingback I'd guess duppin over BNL but I'd have to reread.

[Elyse]

Wingback is flailing and trying to keep his options open cause he knows the game is over.

[Elyse]

Why do people think BNL is likely scum with Aris? Aris voted BNL and BNL wasn't on the Postie wagon. They don't fit to me.

Let's just lynch Wingback and reassess if we need to.

[Elyse]

Wait, now that I think about it - Fire was the only one who had a scumread on Elyse, right?

He wasn't scumreading me at the end of the day.

[Elyse]

So Wingback is going to spend his time trying to paint me as scum.

yawn

[Elyse]

Wait, now that I think about it - Fire was the only one who had a scumread on Elyse, right?

He wasn't scumreading me at the end of the day.

Hmm

So why do you think FA was killed?

Idk I was scumreading him.

[Elyse]

Wingback you picked the wrong one to go after!

[Elyse]

Hmmm. Ok cool glad to be confirmed.

I refuse to lynch anyone other than Wingback. His posts on this page alone make him deserve the noose.

[Elyse]

Can we lynch Wingback now

[Elyse]

I don't know why Wingback is so adamant about not being lynched and being vigged instead.

Let's lynch him

[Elyse]

You're right I haven't been reading your posts

Because you are scum

[Elyse]

Willing to take that risk

[Elyse]

Sucks I had to be force replaced because IPS sucks.

I would've liked to see how I did because reading along I totally thought TTH was scum despite thinking it was duppin while I was still in the game. Obviously it's different when you're playing vs a spectator and TTH is pretty darn convincing.

Great job TTH and good job serra. It's really tough replacing in so late and having to make the endgame decision like that. duppin you played LyLo well and had me convinced you were town...although I would have lynched you over BNL lmao.

Good job everyone. This was a fun one.

[Elyse]

Iprobablysuck messaged me saying "you're an idiot and you suck at mafia, just thought I should let you know" which clued me into the fact I was wrong about Wingback.

[Elyse]

Sucks I had to be force replaced because IPS sucks.

I would've liked to see how I did because reading along I totally thought TTH was scum despite thinking it was duppin while I was still in the game. Obviously it's different when you're playing vs a spectator and TTH is pretty darn convincing.

Great job TTH and good job serra. It's really tough replacing in so late and having to make the endgame decision like that. duppin you played LyLo well and had me convinced you were town...although I would have lynched you over BNL lmao.

Good job everyone. This was a fun one.

You thought I was scum too....

Yup and I would've gotten you lynched if you hadn't been NK'd