Micro 640: Perfect Cherry Blossom (Game Over)

zMuffinMan · Post Post #17 (isolation #0) » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:08 am

i wrote this while failing to get to sleep

Spoiler: save as cirno.html, ???, profit

also ego post

zMuffinMan · Post Post #35 (isolation #1) » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:34 am

am i town?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #39 (isolation #2) » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:49 am

no. it's my 18th birthday in a couple days so i'm gonna wait til i can do it legally

zMuffinMan · Post Post #52 (isolation #3) » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:40 pm

beeboy makes a good point

if pieguy's scum, im sure she considers beeboy the biggest threat in this game. he seems like a very capable player who would be frightening to play against as scum

zMuffinMan · Post Post #59 (isolation #4) » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:34 pm

beeboy might be scum tbh

zMuffinMan · Post Post #60 (isolation #5) » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:39 pm

In post 33, Luna Fox wrote:Vedith's prob town.

maybe

In post 34, Luna Fox wrote:Edo too

eh

not feeling this

zMuffinMan · Post Post #68 (isolation #6) » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:21 am

i know what a mason is... they build things out of stone and stuff and belong to a secret society

zMuffinMan · Post Post #69 (isolation #7) » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:23 am

why are you voting pie, dark?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #71 (isolation #8) » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:23 am

ok. y

zMuffinMan · Post Post #81 (isolation #9) » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:26 pm

i would like it if pie showed up and made me feel all warm and fuzzy about pie

i would like it if beeboy talked about something other than pie and the ins and outs of making things with stone or whatever material he uses

i would like it if ms fox did something more than show up every now and then and call someone town

zMuffinMan · Post Post #82 (isolation #10) » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:55 pm

In post 80, thenewearth wrote:VOTE: Vedith

this is L-1 by the way, in case anyone tries to feign ignorance with a "whoops, i hammered"

zMuffinMan · Post Post #135 (isolation #11) » Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:09 am

busy today, post tomorrow

zMuffinMan · Post Post #185 (isolation #12) » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:30 am

In post 85, Luna Fox wrote:I think you're town

oh, gee, that's so nice of you. i want you to know i took a photograph of this post and framed it on my wall, so that i'll always remember this day

when do you think you'll get around to talking about why you think your town reads are town?

In post 87, Vedith wrote:anyone thinking Edo as town is boosted

i don't think edosurist has done anything particularly town but he also hasn't really done anything that makes me think he's scum, so eh

zMuffinMan · Post Post #186 (isolation #13) » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:39 am

In post 127, Edosurist wrote:My initial vote on pie was just cuz !!wagons!!, but then this made it serious.

In post 32, pieguyn wrote:
In post 31, Edosurist wrote:Are you not interested by my vote?
I am, I'd just rather watch and observe what shakes out of it by itself than going out of my way to question it.

if you want to explain it then by all means go ahead.

i thought #32 was an awkward post, mostly because it looked reactive (in an "oh, shit, i should have said something about that!" kind of way)

otoh, beeboy's reason for voting pie was a pretty fucking shit reason

zMuffinMan · Post Post #187 (isolation #14) » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:42 am

it also has a very appeasey feel to it, if that's a word (and if it isn't, it should be)

zMuffinMan · Post Post #188 (isolation #15) » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:49 am

In post 132, pieguyn wrote:I find that a lot of the time if I start jumping at shit in RVS it does nothing but cause a huge distraction... I find it equally as effective for my own reads to just wait until people start doing things I find significantly alignment-indicative

since when? my impression of you has always been that you like to be in the centre, generating discussion. i don't think i've ever seen you take a back seat

In post 133, pieguyn wrote:his read on Wisdom is hilariously wrong

does this mean you're town-reading wisdom?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #189 (isolation #16) » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:00 am

In post 138, DarkLightA wrote:However, he explains his vote as being based in the more recent fake-hammer. To me this seems opportunistic, like he's looking for scummy behavior to justify his vote rather than scum.

i don't really think it's all the strange for a player's initial joke read to develop into something more serious, so this seems pretty weak

e.g. everyone who voted pieguy in the early pages (including yourself) said it was initially a joke that turned into something more serious (albeit, early pages and nothing super strong)

In post 138, DarkLightA wrote:Or me: he accuses me of rolefishing in 66, and ignores it until after the whole L-1 thingy, when he picks up on my scent again.
Note this, it's important:
he initially doesn't care about my response, but after he's pressured, he asks me to justify me vote on him. I respond, and suddenly he sees me as scummy. To me it seems like he's justifying his suspicion of me (He says "The only reason that my vote isn't going on you instead of Wisdom now is because Wisdom's fake reaction to my lynch.") with the rolefishing post... Read through his posts there, 66-97, there's nothing to change his opinion? Is he threatening to vote me because of 96? That's a weak reason if I ever heard one.

my impression of the whole thing was vedith going back and looking at who was voting him, seeing your vote, questioning you about it and deciding he didn't like the way you responded to him (96)

i thought the fishing thing was more in jest than a serious accusation anyway

i dont really think vedith is scum

zMuffinMan · Post Post #190 (isolation #17) » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:04 am

In post 171, beeboy wrote:DLA I am not a mason with Luna btw just so you can scum hunt normally.

wow, what a shocking turn of events. did not see that coming

zMuffinMan · Post Post #191 (isolation #18) » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:06 am

ok i just realised pieguy said almost exactly what i said in #173 but i'm just going to pretend that pieguy is sheeping me

zMuffinMan · Post Post #192 (isolation #19) » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:18 am

In post 181, beeboy wrote:I would not say this is an information heavy game, half this game is shitty mason discussion.

yeah, fuck, sorry about that - that's completely the rest of the game's fault, they're so dumb for continually making you repeat "why are you questioning a mason?", "why are you voting a mason?", etc instead of playing the game

In post 184, Wisdom wrote:pie feels a little off compared to magical girl mafia but it might just be me

she feels more aggressive than i'm used to her being

not sure what to make of it so far, so i'm kind of just waiting to see where she goes from here

zMuffinMan · Post Post #236 (isolation #20) » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:35 am

will be around later today. work kicking my ass to get some things done asap

zMuffinMan · Post Post #268 (isolation #21) » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:37 pm

yeah, didn't realise the deadline was so close, whatevs

Vote: beeboy

gonna read recent stuff properly after i get dinner

zMuffinMan · Post Post #270 (isolation #22) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:43 am

In post 214, pieguyn wrote:I would prefer Edos to either of those, I think.

why?

In post 215, pieguyn wrote:I'm curious to know where you're getting this impression of my play from.

why does the paragraph that follows this line have nothing to do with my quote? i suppose it's meant as a response to what i said about your early response to edo? if so, meh - i'm not so interested in that apart from the fact that i didn't really like your response to him

also i meant that your play feels aggressive not in the sense that you're pushing things strongly and whatnot but in the "grrr grrr im gonna eat your soul and spit it out because it tastes bad, don't cross me" kind of way (e.g. your early approach to beeboy), which isn't something i'm used to seeing from you

zMuffinMan · Post Post #271 (isolation #23) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:51 am

eh, vedith is probably town but the points about wisdom aren't particularly strong regardless of wisdom's alignment

zMuffinMan · Post Post #272 (isolation #24) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:58 am

In post 250, Wisdom wrote:I never checked what L- you were at, i took zmuffin's word that you were at L-1.

heh. *shrug* while i'd like to claim it was some genius reaction test or something, i actually thought you were voting vedith already - i got edo and vedith confused in my head so i legit thought it was l-1. i originally thought you were trying to do some dumb fake-hammer with your vote already on him, then when i realised he was at l-2 i went back and thought you were doing some dumb fake-hammer with your vote not already on him

i don't picture you as the sort of player who just hammers p4 of a game because someone was daring you to

zMuffinMan · Post Post #273 (isolation #25) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:00 am

why do you think beeboy is town, wisdom

zMuffinMan · Post Post #348 (isolation #26) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:17 am

In post 328, GreyICE wrote:zMuffin and me continue our blood pact that we can't share a win condition. He's got the shoot people at night one this time around.

uh-huh. why do you think im scum, greyice?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #350 (isolation #27) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:20 am

In post 274, Wisdom wrote:dunno, not sure hed pose as a mason as scum

why not? i thought it was a joke he didn't know when to give up (until people basically forced him to)

what's he done that's actually town?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #354 (isolation #28) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:29 am

by the way, serious question to anyone town-reading beeboy. i just went over his ISO again. what has he done outside the mason stuff?

what in his ISO is even remotely town?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #356 (isolation #29) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:35 am

if you think you can get me lynched, you can try to get me lynched. we both know that's not going to happen, though, and i don't actually think you have a legitimate reason to think i'm scum

as for edo,

i don't want to bus

i'm ambivalent about him. he hasn't done anything particularly town, he hasn't done anything i think looks all that bad either

talk about why beeboy is town if you're not going to talk about why i'm scum

zMuffinMan · Post Post #359 (isolation #30) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:40 am

@DLA,

i don't really think vedith is scum. i don't think his back-and-forth with you on p10 is as bad as you seem to think it was and it's a large part of why i think he's probably town. what do you think of 224?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #362 (isolation #31) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:43 am

In post 360, GreyICE wrote:First post of his would confirm it to town-muffin

yeah, no, i refuse to believe you actually believe this

zMuffinMan · Post Post #363 (isolation #32) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:44 am

i'm naturally a power role magnet

you don't need to "put me on the radar" to make me a target. i'm always a target

zMuffinMan · Post Post #365 (isolation #33) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:47 am

In post 4, beeboy wrote:VOTE: pie

{pieguyn, edosurist}
I have mod given info this is the scum team gg.

yeah, gee, this post just exudes towniness from every crevice

i'm such a fucking fool for not seeing the obvious here and you're totally right that this could only be coming from someone with a town role pm

what am i doing with myself if i can't even read something as obvious as this?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #366 (isolation #34) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:06 am

you know, i've read every post in beeboy's ISO at least four times now

even if i squint, i don't see anything in his early posts that i think you'd believe were a. town or b. unlikely to come from scum, let alone that first post

it's funny that you bring up the blood pact, because when i saw youd replaced in my first thought was "maybe this is the game..." but now i just want to power lynch you when beeboy flips scum

zMuffinMan · Post Post #369 (isolation #35) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:10 am

yeah, this is what you're apparently calling town greyice

zMuffinMan · Post Post #371 (isolation #36) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:17 am

In post 370, beeboy wrote:I think Luna and Pie are town so I vote the remaining player on my wagon ezpz

let me guess, greyice... this is another post that just oozes town intentions

because a town player looks at their own wagon and goes, "you know what? i don't actually have a reason to think this guy is scum, but hey, i think two other people voting me are town so he must be scum"

zMuffinMan · Post Post #373 (isolation #37) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:22 am

uh-huh

i voted you like 8 hours ago

luna voted you like 2 hours ago

your logic is "my wagon isn't moving"

in 2 hours

oh, yes, that's totally not something scum would make up as a reason

that's totally a town line of thought

zMuffinMan · Post Post #376 (isolation #38) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:27 am

who's scum with me, beeboy?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #377 (isolation #39) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:37 am

In post 375, beeboy wrote:Still don't think my wagon is all town tho

your reason before was wagon dynamics

your reason now is literally "three people are voting me and i think two of them are town"

that's why you're calling me scum. not for anything i've actually done in this game. not because any of my posts looked like scum posts to you. but because i'm voting you

ok

zMuffinMan · Post Post #381 (isolation #40) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:47 am

hey, greyice. there's a vote on me and from someone you think is really town. from your point of view, my wagon is 25% more viable... surely you can push me now, if you think i'm scum

In post 379, DarkLightA wrote:he has laid out as close to no case as you could possibly get

yeah, i'm not so concerned about this. people often think reads which are obvious to them should be obvious to others and not everyone is the type of player who cases

zMuffinMan · Post Post #385 (isolation #41) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:13 am

iirc i was scum-reading you for how you pushed pieguy early

you were using the whole mason thing as a way to avoid doing anything while pushing pieguy in a way that didn't feel natural - i'd have to go back and look at it for specifics which i might do when i get a break at work

but no, that's not why i think you're scum now. it's a small part of your larger body of work wherein you've done shitall for the entire day phase. you coasted on the mason thing until people got so fed up with you that you had to retract it and since then you've done... nothing. you complained about how the game wasn't "information-heavy" because of the mason stuff that YOU did and outside of that all you've done is sit on the pieguy vote for a while, unvote, argue with pie a bit about luna and now your vote on me

this is everything you've done. and no, i'm not misrepresenting anything here. you haven't gone into any real depth on any of your reads (which is funny given your stance on luna and her reads) and you haven't done a single thing in this game that makes me think you're town

zMuffinMan · Post Post #391 (isolation #42) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:27 am

In post 387, beeboy wrote:I don't feel like me being underwhelming or whatever is a hard reason for scum to hide behind

"underwhelming" isn't what i meant when i said you hadn't done anything town. town can be underwhelming, too. but they still do town things

zMuffinMan · Post Post #393 (isolation #43) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:44 am

In post 387, beeboy wrote:I wasn't really coasting on the mason claim it dragged a shit ton of attention to me that wouldn't have originally been headed in my direction. (I fake claimed mason before I know it causes problems for me)

I didn't complain about the game not being information heavy I was complaining about Pie arguing it was and I should have had more reads by page 7 when the game was really far from being information heavy.

the mason claim didn't really bring any attention to you at all, beyond the fact that people were discussing it early...

and yeah, with regards to the "information heavy" thing, im aware you were responding to pieguy but what i meant was that rather than doing any real scum hunting in the early pages (because while the game may not have been information-heavy, there was still content there) you complained about the mason thing as though that's the reason you couldn't develop any reads

zMuffinMan · Post Post #394 (isolation #44) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:47 am

In post 392, beeboy wrote:VOTE: beeboy

This isn't worth it

you know, regardless of your alignment, this is disgusting

if you don't want to play, replace out

zMuffinMan · Post Post #395 (isolation #45) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:50 am

like you're not hammering, so if you just don't want to play then leave and let someone who does want to play play. if this is just some scum appeal then it's a really underhanded move

zMuffinMan · Post Post #426 (isolation #46) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:08 am

is the "lazy" thing really the only reason you're calling him scum?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #430 (isolation #47) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:32 am

reaction to what

zMuffinMan · Post Post #478 (isolation #48) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:26 am

In post 434, beeboy wrote:I won't go into the self vote, sorry.

mm

i don't really believe you as a town-role-who-thinks-his-claim-will-make-it-so-he-isn't-lynched self-votes like you did. "this isn't worth it" isn't something i think someone who knows they won't be lynched if they claim their role says

so whenever you do eventually claim, if your role isn't as town as you're making it out to be or if you don't have a decent justification for the self vote, im probably going to want to see you power lynched

zMuffinMan · Post Post #480 (isolation #49) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:32 am

In post 434, beeboy wrote:Question for the people voting me o/
Who am I scum with?

probably one of the people calling you town for shitty reasons (greyice, wisdom)

but hey, your softing probably bought you a day so good for you, i guess

zMuffinMan · Post Post #482 (isolation #50) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:35 am

In post 453, DarkLightA wrote: Beeboy I think is town just because I don't see his play coming from scum.

you mean his play in general or you mean the claim stuff?

in either case, why?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #489 (isolation #51) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:45 am

In post 465, DarkLightA wrote:Pie, why do you think lynch a soft claimed PR day 1 is a viable strategy? In almost all cases this is completely misguided.

i don't think this statement is as true as you think it is

i don't regularly play micros but i sincerely doubt there's vanilla scum in a small touhou-based setup like this

the idea that if he's town, scum will see him as a threat is a misguided one because if he

is

actually town, scum probably either have something to counter him or might just not care

that said, i would not be so concerned with looking elsewhere today; it's just that i don't have any strong feelings about the other viable wagons at the moment being scum

zMuffinMan · Post Post #503 (isolation #52) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:02 am

wisdom brings up a pretty strong point in 500

zMuffinMan · Post Post #514 (isolation #53) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:09 am

eh that should resolve itself then. shoot me and prove your role

dunno how feasible it is but going to sit here while i read things

Vote: GREYice

zMuffinMan · Post Post #516 (isolation #54) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:10 am

no

The target is confirmed town

zMuffinMan · Post Post #517 (isolation #55) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:11 am

well unless gif runs a different version than a standard one

zMuffinMan · Post Post #543 (isolation #56) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:15 pm

does anyone have a town read on greyice? if so, why?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #545 (isolation #57) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:34 pm

the thing about greyice is that every single game we've played together (i think), he's called me scum. the only difference between when he's done it as scum and when he's done it as town is that when he's town, he's a lot more forthcoming with reasoning whereas when he's scum he uses what essentially boils down to wikitells and getting him to talk about it in any depth is like pulling fucking teeth

i suppose if he's so utterly convinced that it's me and edosurist, i could maybe see him not caring so much (with the logic being take out the weak link and it becomes easier to take out the harder lynch), but that requires him being so convinced that it's me and edosurist in the first place

zMuffinMan · Post Post #551 (isolation #58) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:54 am

going to sleep. i'll be around from pretty much whenever i wake up until the deadline

while i doubt a greyice lynch is actually going to happen, i do want people to talk about their read on him

zMuffinMan · Post Post #552 (isolation #59) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:56 am

you know if the deadline hadn't been extended by 24 hours, greyice would have essentially replaced into a game and lurked until the deadline

as is, it's over 40 hours since he posted in a game he

just

replaced into with a deadline looming

zMuffinMan · Post Post #635 (isolation #60) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:15 am

In post 568, Edosurist wrote:Welp. Bye guys

wow

zMuffinMan · Post Post #637 (isolation #61) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:20 am

In post 576, GreyICE wrote:I think Muffin is desperately trying to make this me vs. him without commenting on you at all

i just genuinely didn't think anything edo was doing looked like scum. or to put it another way... i didn't have qualms with his play

but given his reaction to the desperado i'm probably wrong

as for why i was trying to make it you vs me, it's because i don't believe you're as convinced that i'm scum as you're making it out you are. and you refuse to talk about why you think i'm scum because you know if we go down that road, it's just going to make you look bad again

zMuffinMan · Post Post #638 (isolation #62) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:28 am

apart from the fact that edo's reaction to the desp thing was a scum slip, there probably isn't both a desperado and a 100(97)% confirmable town role in this game

zMuffinMan · Post Post #639 (isolation #63) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:30 am

In post 617, Luna Fox wrote:So we have a Desperado and a role that can confirm itself as town (im guessing FN).
on a 9 player game this looks BS.

he's not a friendly neighbour (that wouldn't be something anyone would claim is confirmable "day two") but yes this is more or less accurate

zMuffinMan · Post Post #648 (isolation #64) » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:45 am

edo, claim in your first post

zMuffinMan · Post Post #659 (isolation #65) » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:15 am

In post 657, Vedith wrote:Although I doubt Edosurist would have made such a deal out of it as scum

the only reason edo is still alive today is BECAUSE he made a big deal out of it

he basically scum-claimed in response to the desperado thing and to cover it up he claimed some role that was both confirmable and town to live through the day

zMuffinMan · Post Post #661 (isolation #66) » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:29 am

Spoiler: relevant quotes

In post 438, Edosurist wrote:^That's L-1

I'll claim once I got someone stating intent (that's not DLA)
Or if you want me to claim now/not at all just let me know.

^ when he hit L-1 the first time, note: willingness to claim and not in a "i have a confirmable town role" way

In post 509, Edosurist wrote:Desperado's a day-role, right?

In post 518, Edosurist wrote:Actually, speaking of Grey, the past game of mine he linked was centered around the desperado.

In post 563, Edosurist wrote:I'm like 90% certain that the Desperado is a day action. In retrospect, assuming you survive the night, the action would be better used if saved for another day when sacrificing a townie for a clear is helpful. I was initially assuming you'd be killed tonight, but

In post 567, beeboy wrote:
kill Edos
Desperado Edos

In post 568, Edosurist wrote:Welp. Bye guys

^ this is coming from someone who knows what a desperado does, talks about a game of his centred around a desperado and then sees the claimed desperado shoot him and assumes he's dead. he tries to pass it off as a "brain fart" after explicitly talking about it for most of the end of the day phase, including making suggestions about who he wants beeboy to shoot ("shoot wisdom", "don't shoot luna", etc)

In post 570, Edosurist wrote:Oh dear god I've messed up entirely

Before someone tries to hammer, let me claim

In post 587, Edosurist wrote:As I said, I request that I'm given a chance to claim before anyone hammers.

In post 592, Edosurist wrote:Ok, my role is 100% confirmable tomorrow. For the sake of the town, it's best if I hide it.

In post 603, DarkLightA wrote:Edos is your tomorrow claim literally 100% foolproof or is it 70%?

In post 607, Edosurist wrote:As long as I don't die, I can confirm and it will be useful. So I'll say 97%

In post 612, Luna Fox wrote:confirmable claim =/= confirmable town.

In post 613, Edosurist wrote:Confirmable town claim, if you honestly want me to clarify.

^ this was the only way he was living through yesterday. note when DLA starts questioning him, he gets anxious and tries to make it seem like his role should allow him to live. when luna points out that a confirmable role doesn't make him town, he counters by suggesting it would confirm him as town

his claim was pretty clearly done as a last effort to take the pressure off him after the reaction to the desperado thing

suggesting he wouldn't do that as scum makes literally no sense; the alternative was him most likely getting lynched d1

anyway, waiting for everyone to check in, but edo needs to be lynched today (can't wait for greyice to show up and suggest i'm bussing, and then point out that it's still the case even if i say this... and that... and that... and that... and that... and that... and that)

zMuffinMan · Post Post #662 (isolation #67) » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:31 am

In post 660, Vedith wrote:Claiming fruit vendor as scum seems a bit too risky imo though.

i mean, other than the fact that if it is his role, it is his role, i'm also thinking it's possible there's just a theme of loud roles in this game and he's not actually a fruit vendor. wisdom was essentially a loud bulletproof; it wouldn't surprise me if edo is trying to pass off a sort-of-loud role as a fruit vendor

zMuffinMan · Post Post #666 (isolation #68) » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:49 am

you think i was sheeping pieguy? please... even if i were scum, i don't sheep. ever. like literally never in any game ever. the fact that pieguy might have shared the same opinion as me (i don't even really remember pieguy saying you were doing jack shit or having the same reason for initially voting you) just means pieguy was reading the game in the same way i was

as far as "revolving my play around reads on you", what? like literally what about my greyice read gave you the impression that it has anything to do with you?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #667 (isolation #69) » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:53 am

also how is greyice a "safe" push? have you ever played with greyice?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #695 (isolation #70) » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:40 pm

In post 680, GreyICE wrote:Muffin probably lets Vedith pick who to shoot

oh, yes, that's likely

"hey vedith, you know that desperado claim and that other 'confirmable town' claim and that greyice dude who's calling me scum and everything... let's not do anything about them. instead, let's just go ahead and kill DLA and hope things work out"

you pegged my scum play to a t, greyice. if only i could get on your level

zMuffinMan · Post Post #697 (isolation #71) » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:33 pm

your answer to that is "muffin"?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #701 (isolation #72) » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:05 am

In post 699, GreyICE wrote:
In post 697, zMuffinMan wrote:your answer to that is "muffin"?
You're not puzzle solving, you're scumplaning about my thoughts. I don't think your ego is so fragIle as to collapse under the weight of being suspected in a mafia game.

im interested in seeing how you try to justify me being scum with this tangent you're going on with the DLA night kill. because so far all you've done is try to claim im scum who had no input on the kill, which is about the only way you can pin it on me, but seeing as you're apparently so very aware of what i do as scum, you should already know how very little sense that makes

there's no "collapse of ego" and i find it funny that you're trying to suggest that the only reason id point out the absurdity of your "well i cant actually think of a good reason muffin is scum or why muffin would make that kill so im just gonna say he's scum with someone who might have done it and had no input" argument is that my ego is collapsing under the weight of your very damning accusations

"not puzzle-solving"? what? because im not indulging you in your night kill analysis? i don't do night kill analysis. the only time i really ever use it is when im scum, actually. i don't find it helpful to the game state in any way and i don't think that any conclusions you can draw from a single kill are going to mean much, because even in the event those conclusions were correct, it's more likely a lucky guess than a solid argument.

of is "not puzzle-solving" a blanket statement you're using for my overall play? because if so, you have more than enough time in this day phase to break down my posts and talk about what you don't like. your excuse yesterday wàs "not enough time". what's your excuse now?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #723 (isolation #73) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:37 pm

In post 704, GreyICE wrote:You're just waiting to see which way the town breaks here before you decide what to do

you're trying to call me scum because i'm not voting? really?

as a theory point, i don't throw my vote around much and i haven't in games for a while - i take a more lax approach to the game in general until i am ready to end days. i don't need to use my vote to help me figure things out and, in general, i find it more useful to let others do the voting. would i do so as scum, too? sure. but only because it would be an emulation of how i play as town

so yeah, i technically am waiting to see which way the game breaks, but if you were half the expert you're pretending to be on my play, you'd know how little that means

In post 708, beeboy wrote:Am I correct to assume if Edos flips scum I should just accelerate us into mylo by shooting tonight because someone will vote me?

if whoever we lynch today flips scum, shoot me

yeah, it'll fast-forward the game to mylo most likely but seeing as greyice is pretty much going to use a scum flip to paint me as scum, it means he has to completely change his trajectory tomorrow and that will be interesting to see

also, declare a target before the day ends and stick with it

zMuffinMan · Post Post #724 (isolation #74) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:43 pm

In post 715, beeboy wrote:Pie, Zmuffin and Luna are the people who will vote me if I don't shoot tonight lol

it's incredibly unlikely you're scum with edos, so no and i don't really care if you shoot or not

that said, if you are going to shoot, declare your target

zMuffinMan · Post Post #725 (isolation #75) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:46 pm

In post 721, GreyICE wrote:Hey Pie, do you see someone who he poked extremely early in the game, who told him complete nonsense and from who he bought this total nonsense and barely ever mentioned it again? In fact this was the only mention, buried in the middle of a pile of names.

*shrug*

i'm not going to pretend i have good interactions with edos. in general, i don't interact as much with people i'm not familiar with and i can't really force him to interact with me, either. still not scum

zMuffinMan · Post Post #728 (isolation #76) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:49 pm

... no, you're an idiot if you shoot without declaring a target

like literally the dumbest thing you could do

zMuffinMan · Post Post #730 (isolation #77) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:51 pm

yeah, but a desperado dies if they shoot town...

zMuffinMan · Post Post #734 (isolation #78) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:16 pm

hey greyice,

who's scum with edos in the unlikely event we're in a parallel universe where it somehow isn't me

zMuffinMan · Post Post #737 (isolation #79) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:53 pm

sorry. i know i was asking you to stretch the limits of your imagination by asking that. i didn't really expect you to have an answer

zMuffinMan · Post Post #739 (isolation #80) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:57 pm

you look good with a goatee btw

zMuffinMan · Post Post #741 (isolation #81) » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:56 am

by the way im expecting this game to go to a greyice-luna-vedith lylo and greyice is probably going to go back to pushing vedith at that point

which is sad because in the event greyice is scum, he probably wins there

and when he kills me tonight, watch tomorrow as he says stuff like "well, gee, i totally did not see that coming. muffin was just playing in such a scummy way, and even though i could never come up with a decent reason to call him scum, he just made so much sense as scum with edos..."

zMuffinMan · Post Post #743 (isolation #82) » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:38 am

yeah, well, while i

technically

am the one with a goatee, i'm not the one with a goatee here

zMuffinMan · Post Post #749 (isolation #83) » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:53 am

In post 744, GreyICE wrote:Although I'm impressed you were posting stuff like that without a vote.

i mean, why is this even a point you're bringing up? it looks like you're simultaneously saying i wanted to bus while suggesting that my lack of vote means i don't want to bus

do you think if i were scum with edo, i would realistically have expected him to live through today? if your answer is yes, then i've done a pisspoor job of making that possibility a reality, and if your answer is no, then what do i gain from not hard-bussing for all the credit it may have been worth?

you're just trying to have your cake and eat it here

zMuffinMan · Post Post #750 (isolation #84) » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:55 am

beeboy shouldn't be shooting anyone on a town flip

zMuffinMan · Post Post #786 (isolation #85) » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:46 am

shooting in the event of an edo scum flip is a good thing imo (mostly because it takes whoever you shoot out of the lynch pool and

especially

so if there are other investigative roles in the game)

just shoot me if edo flips scum since we all know who greyice is going to go after on his scum flip

and whatever you do, make it clear ASAP what you're doing because you hammered

zMuffinMan · Post Post #788 (isolation #86) » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:56 am

i don't really believe that, but the plan should be this

if edo is trolling, shoot me
if he isn't, shoot no one

if beeboy doesn't show up again to confirm or change before thread gets locked, he should follow this

zMuffinMan · Post Post #795 (isolation #87) » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:20 pm

you say i "talked my way out of it" like that's what i was trying to do (by not doing it at all?), but i don't see how you could really believe that

e.g. gif could have easily come in and locked the thread right after 788

zMuffinMan · Post Post #804 (isolation #88) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:02 pm

In post 802, MathBlade wrote:Why all the pushes on GreyICE yet you settle?

i don't understand what this question means

how much of that post did you write last night?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #806 (isolation #89) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:06 pm

In post 802, MathBlade wrote:explain how this isn't cross bus to victory

what a dumb request

what sort of answer are you even looking for here?

"well, you see... since the sum of the square roots of any two sides of an isosceles triangle is equal to the square root of the remaining side, it's literally impossible"

zMuffinMan · Post Post #807 (isolation #90) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:10 pm

In post 805, MathBlade wrote:It is a simple question you say GreyICE is scum a lot. Yet push comes to shove your votes almost always ended up on someone else

what? i've voted two people in this game (though you could argue i was voting edo in spirit yesterday, so three)

one of them was beeboy, one of them was greyice

if by "push comes to shove", you mean i wanted edo dead yesterday, then sure. i wanted edo dead yesterday. i thought he was scum, too. this may come as a surprise but you can have more than one scum read

zMuffinMan · Post Post #814 (isolation #91) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:16 pm

i was voting greyice

zMuffinMan · Post Post #815 (isolation #92) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:19 pm

In post 810, MathBlade wrote:you choose Edo instead. Why?

how much of the game have you read?

edo did one of THE worst fuckups ive ever seen a town player do (if not the worst), so much so that even if his play had been town independently (it wasn't, really, though there was nothing overtly scummy either), i'd struggle to see how a town player could do what he did

zMuffinMan · Post Post #817 (isolation #93) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:41 pm

why do you think mathblade is likely town

zMuffinMan · Post Post #819 (isolation #94) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:50 pm

what about luna's posts was town? why does luna not being able to deal with the game mean luna town?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #820 (isolation #95) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:54 pm

In post 802, MathBlade wrote:With a bullet proof flipped and beeboy dead (likely desperado)

In post 803, MathBlade wrote:Well excuse me is desperado* wrote most of the questions preflip*

what do you think about this?

i suppose after what edo did this isn't some silver bullet or anything like that, but i think it's interesting that he presumably wrote that during the night phase

zMuffinMan · Post Post #822 (isolation #96) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:00 pm

outside of the fact that he wrote that post during the night (so it was obviously something he spent time composing), what's coherent about it?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #823 (isolation #97) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:02 pm

i don't think it was obvious that beeboy was going to die last night

tbh i expected you to die

zMuffinMan · Post Post #828 (isolation #98) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:11 pm

i am mobile so ill look at whatever you're talking about later but i wasn't asking about Luna because of any specific issue with her (outside of her just not doing much of anything), i was asking because i don't see where the certainty about her slot is coming from

zMuffinMan · Post Post #830 (isolation #99) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:15 pm

what threat was beeboy to scum? he wasn't going to make a game-losing shot so his role was essentially useless. i would have kept him alive, killed a consensus town read like pieguy or someone who was actually a threat to me and gone from there

zMuffinMan · Post Post #834 (isolation #100) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:20 pm

beeboy was a potential mislynch and beeboy probably wouldn't have fired on a scum lynch (if he were going to fire at all he would have done so last night...)

literally the only legitimate reason to shoot him would have been his reads

zMuffinMan · Post Post #836 (isolation #101) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:24 pm

desperado that conveniently never shoots is an incredibly easy thing to fake-claim - unlikely to be in the game so low chance of a counter claim and there's no need to "prove" it because numbers

zMuffinMan · Post Post #839 (isolation #102) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:29 pm

In post 833, MathBlade wrote:So again. Tell me your scumreads ZMuffin.

Not asking for the moon here. It is a simple question.

nah

i decided that in the likely event i was alive today, i was going to scrap my reads and start from scratch

zMuffinMan · Post Post #841 (isolation #103) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:31 pm

In post 837, MathBlade wrote:
In post 834, zMuffinMan wrote:beeboy was a potential mislynch and beeboy probably wouldn't have fired on a scum lynch (if he were going to fire at all he would have done so last night...)

literally the only legitimate reason to shoot him would have been his reads
Beeboy wouldn't have been a Mislynch if I had anything to say about it because I would argue what I did here that he townfirm himself by firing. This game would have been today only. Because if he didn't fire it was insta lynch city the next day.

No way scum makes that claim and sticks to it to LyLo as then they just are forced to protect Beeboy's partner it is too limiting. Beeboy doesn't limit anything.

not a single word in this post makes any sense whatsoever

zMuffinMan · Post Post #848 (isolation #104) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:39 pm

i already have a scummy for scum play, i dont need another

zMuffinMan · Post Post #851 (isolation #105) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:45 pm

In post 842, MathBlade wrote:Having no reads is garbage.

uh-huh

i could tell you what i was thinking at the end of yesterday, but seeing as edo flipped town and beeboy died over others i thought would be more likely candidates (because really, beeboy was doing shit all in this game), what would be the point?

i didn't read the game overnight. i didn't think about the game overnight. edo's flip already confirmed i was looking at the gamestate in the wrong way yesterday. why would you expect me to have fully formed reads today?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #854 (isolation #106) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:49 pm

In post 832, MathBlade wrote:And if the game isn't over by EoD today they HAD to fire or be outed as scum.

this argument is a load of shit btw

beeboy didn't shoot after yesterday

why would he have shot after a scum flip today

the numbers are the same. in either case, an incorrect shot means a town loss and he'd have had a BETTER chance of hitting scum last night (2/5) than after a scum flip today (1/3)

scum had no real reason to kill beeboy because of his role

he wasn't confirmed town (the only reason i thought he was town is because i thought edo was scum and i didn't see the desperado shot thing happening as a scum-scum interaction but edo flipping made that point moot)

he's not exactly a strong player either, so what threat did he pose to scum outside of the odds he'd vote one of them today?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #858 (isolation #107) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:53 pm

In post 840, MathBlade wrote:Of course you did because you don't actually want to lynch GreyICE even though you keep saying GreyICE is scum yet you don't do a damn thing about it.

yeah

let's see

greyice replaced in with about 24 (which became 48) hours to go to the deadline d1 and wasn't really around d1 at all. i still ended up voting him d1, even though i acknowledged that with 24 hours to go before the deadline, it was unlikely he'd be lynched when the best case i could muster would have been along the lines of "gut plus lack of content"

d2 edo was my focus

so your argument is that i didn't spend d2 trying to get greyice lynched, essentially

ok

zMuffinMan · Post Post #859 (isolation #108) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:54 pm

In post 856, MathBlade wrote:At that point it isn't about odds though. Beeboy would shoot after today because he's have the information of who the other scum is and that makes for the best possible shot.

YEAH, BY THAT LOGIC, SO WOULD TOWN WHO WAS STILL ALIVE IN LYLO

jesus fucking christ, you cannot be this dense

zMuffinMan · Post Post #861 (isolation #109) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:01 pm

i dont even really care about this argument so im just going to drop it - it's not important and it's not going anywhere

but from a purely theory standpoint, you're completely wrong

and beeboy is still (IMO) a weird kill for scum to make over others

zMuffinMan · Post Post #864 (isolation #110) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:07 pm

what do you mean i "doing enough to figure it out"? the majority of my posts in this game have been centred around greyice. and talking about greyice. and asking people about their read on greyice. and so on and so forth...

your original argument was "you didn't vote greyice" - i did, though

your next argument was "you didn't do enough to push greyice" - he wasn't even around d1 and d2 edo was a bigger priority and i STILL talked about him, but yeah, i didn't push him... because i wanted edo lynched

and now i apparently haven't been doing enough to figure it out? what? like asking greyice to talk about where his read on me comes from, asking others to talk about their read on greyice, etc? yeah, fuck, i should have done stuff like that, hey?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #866 (isolation #111) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:09 pm

"without a reason"

did you even read what he did?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #868 (isolation #112) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:10 pm

In post 661, zMuffinMan wrote:
Spoiler: relevant quotes
In post 438, Edosurist wrote:^That's L-1

I'll claim once I got someone stating intent (that's not DLA)
Or if you want me to claim now/not at all just let me know.
^ when he hit L-1 the first time, note: willingness to claim and not in a "i have a confirmable town role" way

In post 509, Edosurist wrote:Desperado's a day-role, right?

In post 518, Edosurist wrote:Actually, speaking of Grey, the past game of mine he linked was centered around the desperado.

In post 563, Edosurist wrote:I'm like 90% certain that the Desperado is a day action. In retrospect, assuming you survive the night, the action would be better used if saved for another day when sacrificing a townie for a clear is helpful. I was initially assuming you'd be killed tonight, but

In post 567, beeboy wrote:
kill Edos
Desperado Edos

In post 568, Edosurist wrote:Welp. Bye guys
^ this is coming from someone who knows what a desperado does, talks about a game of his centred around a desperado and then sees the claimed desperado shoot him and assumes he's dead. he tries to pass it off as a "brain fart" after explicitly talking about it for most of the end of the day phase, including making suggestions about who he wants beeboy to shoot ("shoot wisdom", "don't shoot luna", etc)

In post 570, Edosurist wrote:Oh dear god I've messed up entirely

Before someone tries to hammer, let me claim

In post 587, Edosurist wrote:As I said, I request that I'm given a chance to claim before anyone hammers.

In post 592, Edosurist wrote:Ok, my role is 100% confirmable tomorrow. For the sake of the town, it's best if I hide it.

In post 603, DarkLightA wrote:Edos is your tomorrow claim literally 100% foolproof or is it 70%?

In post 607, Edosurist wrote:As long as I don't die, I can confirm and it will be useful. So I'll say 97%

In post 612, Luna Fox wrote:confirmable claim =/= confirmable town.

In post 613, Edosurist wrote:Confirmable town claim, if you honestly want me to clarify.
^ this was the only way he was living through yesterday. note when DLA starts questioning him, he gets anxious and tries to make it seem like his role should allow him to live. when luna points out that a confirmable role doesn't make him town, he counters by suggesting it would confirm him as town

his claim was pretty clearly done as a last effort to take the pressure off him after the reaction to the desperado thing

suggesting he wouldn't do that as scum makes literally no sense; the alternative was him most likely getting lynched d1

anyway, waiting for everyone to check in, but edo needs to be lynched today (can't wait for greyice to show up and suggest i'm bussing, and then point out that it's still the case even if i say this... and that... and that... and that... and that... and that... and that)

look, all of two seconds to find a post that summarises my thoughts on edo and why i "switched without a reason"

zMuffinMan · Post Post #870 (isolation #113) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:13 pm

In post 867, MathBlade wrote:Here you sabotaged it and then never put enough weight towards getting him lynched.

im a realist, if i dont think someone is getting lynched, ill say so. he hadn't done much. no one was focusing on him. it wasn't hard to see he probably wasn't getting lynched unless he showed up and posted and gave me something to work with

that said, i DID try to get opinions out of people about him because i wanted to gauge where people were at with their reads on him

zMuffinMan · Post Post #872 (isolation #114) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:15 pm

In post 869, MathBlade wrote:Yes that is a horrible reason and obv town. If you were townMuffin you'd see that.

uh-huh

99% of the time something like that happens, it comes from scum

people have been nominated for kodak moments for less obvious-looking slips

you know nothing about town-muffin or you'd know this is it

zMuffinMan · Post Post #873 (isolation #115) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:17 pm

In post 871, MathBlade wrote:Instead you are scum muffin who found a Mislynch target so you didn't have to push Grey.

right, yeah, sure

as scum, i needed to push edo because, hey, there were just no other options

as scum, i decided "you know what? even though there's probably no chance greyice gets lynched today, i'm not going to continue bussing him for all the town credit it would be worth if he did somehow end up dying"

zMuffinMan · Post Post #874 (isolation #116) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:19 pm

pieguy, what's your opinion on math's posts

zMuffinMan · Post Post #876 (isolation #117) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:23 pm

no db talk?

i was testing things with some procedures i'd made that i no longer really maintain. and even though it wouldn't take particularly long to do, after the current run of games i'm in, i'm done with mafia so i'm not gonna bother

zMuffinMan · Post Post #879 (isolation #118) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:54 pm

hey, greyice

let's play a game

i'm going to assume you're town in this post and, for shits and giggles, let's assume we've somehow ended up in goatee-verse or gif fucked up and sent me the wrong role pm or something

who has set this endgame up?

because if you're town, probably the only reason you're alive is because scum thought you were guaranteed to push me (if not today, then tomorrow) and vice versa

if you're town, i actually think the most likely scum team here is math+pie

i really did expect pieguy to die last night. unlike beeboy, pie actually has a chance of swaying people to her point of view and is probably the most dangerous town player if you and i aren't in the kill pool. i could see scum thinking, "oh, we need to kill beeboy because role," but even if that's the case, they'd only do that if they thought there was a decent chance of beeboy shooting one of them. what threat is beeboy to a scum team that he isn't going to be shooting? what threat is beeboy to a scum team when he's not shooting at all?

vedith's posting history isn't great but there's a complete lack of goal-oriented play in it. there's no opportunism or forward-planning, it's just single-minded focus on certain players (wisdom, followed by luna)

luna felt like she was just... there. and yeah, she talked about time constraints and shit but even when she was here and posting, nothing about her posts stood out as particularly town to me (outside of maybe the requests to be shot yesterday, but pretty much all of that came after it had been pointed out beeboy shouldn't shoot on a town flip). i've been overlooking her because my reads elsewhere were a lot stronger but given the majority of them have ended up flipping town, i'm re-examining this. math's posts so far have a very specific focus (making today you vs me) but outside of that, there's been a weak defense of vedith and... that's it

pieguy feels a bit like she's been trying not to step on any toes with her play and i've been mostly ignoring her for the same reason i've been mostly ignoring luna. but realistically speaking, the justification for luna-slot being town is severely lacking in depth and something i could easily see pie doing as the mother-goose scum protecting her young

if you are town, i don't really expect you to drop your suspicion of me or anything just because i said so. but whatever. this end-game was planned by someone and that someone isn't me

zMuffinMan · Post Post #881 (isolation #119) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:01 pm

anyway, i fully expect you to just reject the above reach-out so whatevs

at least if you are town, you can't say i didn't at least try

zMuffinMan · Post Post #882 (isolation #120) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:14 pm

btw i wrote that without really paying much attention to 877 but 877 isn't a bad example of what im talking about with regards to pie-math

it does feel like they both came into today with a specific agenda in mind but whatevs

gonna do some proper reading when i get home

zMuffinMan · Post Post #883 (isolation #121) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:28 pm

In post 880, MathBlade wrote:Called it

i also wrote it knowing that mathblade would have something cheeky to say about it

it could just be as simple as greyice being scum and me wasting my time with this exercise but hey, if i end up thinking greyice is scum anyway, i'm not going to feel bad that i explored all options

zMuffinMan · Post Post #887 (isolation #122) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:42 pm

youmu, VT

go greyice

zMuffinMan · Post Post #888 (isolation #123) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:45 pm

btw, pieguy, break down what you liked about mathblade's first post

because from where i'm sitting...

In post 802, MathBlade wrote:Okay this has to be LyLo.
...
For the love of God no one vote yet because scum can quick hammer.

this here just looks like an unnecessary need to create the image of a player who's trying to do things for the good of the town. it's an over-the-top way of saying something that anyone with two brain cells should already know

In post 802, MathBlade wrote:With a bullet proof flipped and beeboy dead (likely desperado)

i DO still think this is an odd thing to right overnight, even if you are assuming it... and i still do not think it was as obvious as you and mathblade are saying it is that beeboy was dead last night. i stand by what i said in 879 with regards to this: there was no sane reason for scum to shoot beeboy unless they feared his reads OR they thought he was going to shoot them. i think if you're town, you should have died last night and i am surprised you didn't think of yourself as one of the more obvious choices for a NK. nobody was really scum-reading you and you should especially think that if one of greyice and i are scum then we would have been worried about you catching onto us

i also think the fact that beeboy died completely destroys mathblade's argument about a scum team involving greyice and i from the get-go, unless it was meant to be a wifom kill, but that's not what mathblade is suggesting. realistically speaking, if the team is greyice and i then in what universe was beeboy going to shoot one of us on the other's scum flip? he gave no indication he thought it was cross-bussing and it looked like his major scum read was luna anyway... so if we WERE assuming that beeboy would shoot on a scum flip today, then leaving him alive would have been optimal play

the only other things of note he did in his first post were ask greyice why he wasn't pushing me harder, ask me why i wasn't pushing greyice harder, request the inane "explain why you're not scum together" (which is like... yeah...), and ask you why you weren't pushing both of us harder

what was there to like about mathblade's first post? what was coherent about it?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #889 (isolation #124) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:04 pm

In post 855, MathBlade wrote:
In post 36, Vedith wrote:
In post 35, zMuffinMan wrote:am i town?
Yeah.
Vedith IMHO as a known lurker wouldn't interact with Muffin like that.

In post 852, MathBlade wrote:
In post 672, Vedith wrote:
In post 669, GreyICE wrote:Now who for the love of Christ shoots DarkLightA? Bus Driver? Redirector? Because I can't fucking think of a sane reason that's who the scum shoots.
Why?
Who looked impressive town to you yesterday?
Why Vedith is not with Grey Ice

i don't believe either of these posts would give someone enough conviction to rule them out as scum with another player

zMuffinMan · Post Post #890 (isolation #125) » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:06 pm

why didn't you talk about why vedith isn't scum with pieguy, mathblade?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #913 (isolation #126) » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:20 pm

In post 813, pieguyn wrote:hi math.

I feel mostly certain that your slot is town

yeah that's some heavy suspicion pieguy is piling on you

zMuffinMan · Post Post #914 (isolation #127) » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:30 pm

In post 906, MathBlade wrote:Now they don't even provide justification as to why the other is town

greyice isn't calling me town (he's suggesting i'm bussing you) and the fact i tried reaching out to greyice doesn't mean i think he's town, just that i'm willing to consider it

zMuffinMan · Post Post #922 (isolation #128) » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:23 pm

In post 919, MathBlade wrote:advocated for a "freebie" lynch

hes saying waiting for vedith to claim is a 'freebie'... as in, "vedith's claim might be relevant to the game state, so why not wait?"

cant wait for pieguy to jump in here and say, "yeah, mathblade is doing the same fling-shit-and-see-what-sticks strategy but i don't think it's definitely necessarily absolutely coming from scum"

zMuffinMan · Post Post #930 (isolation #129) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:53 am

so you're a full JK?

if so, claim a target before the day ends today (preferably sooner rather than later)

zMuffinMan · Post Post #932 (isolation #130) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:30 pm

i would only assume the JKs on pieguy mean something if mathblade flips like some über-awesome PR that scum wouldn't waste. if he flips regular goon or something, the JKs don't mean a lot

zMuffinMan · Post Post #934 (isolation #131) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:52 pm

depends entirely what scum power is, but even without much power i wouldn't find it all that strange. desp + jk + bp have weird interactions that don't really synergise

zMuffinMan · Post Post #935 (isolation #132) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:56 pm

also dont really think vedith-scum goes "shit, i need to claim something that puts me in the spotlight atm because that seems necessary"

besides, i thought you'd ruled out vedith-scum like 24 hours ago

zMuffinMan · Post Post #945 (isolation #133) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:20 pm

fruit vendor is basically a glorified vt

1-shot desp, 1-shot bp and jk don't have particularly good interactions (though it depends on how 1-shot desp acts when it gets blocked and how 1-shot bp acts when it gets shot by the desp)

realistically speaking, the setup would have been designed around desp using its role n1. there's a lot of ways for town powers to interact that aren't necessarily good and i don't think town's power is all that strong (desp is really a double-edged sword in a game this small)

also depends on what power scum has. prob a limited-utility strongman at the very least

zMuffinMan · Post Post #946 (isolation #134) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:23 pm

also 1-shot desp and 1-shot bp is just shit in a setup by themselves anyway

against like 2 goons that's not even a good amount of power

zMuffinMan · Post Post #951 (isolation #135) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:29 pm

town-JK with scum having something to counter it is far more likely to me than the setup being that dogshit

ime gif is more the sort of mod to jack up town power than to give them nothing - see: the recently finished magical girls game for example

zMuffinMan · Post Post #952 (isolation #136) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:30 pm

In post 949, MathBlade wrote:Lol 2 goons v 7 townies is balanced without power.

yeah, no, your opinions on balance are invalid

17:2 is VERY SLIGHTLY scum-sided in mountainous. 17, not 7. think about that

zMuffinMan · Post Post #957 (isolation #137) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:33 pm

beeboy said he wasn't shooting on a town flip iirc

zMuffinMan · Post Post #961 (isolation #138) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:35 pm

it's not really debate. i've literally done the numbers on this

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p7407794

zMuffinMan · Post Post #962 (isolation #139) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:38 pm

In post 959, GreyICE wrote:Because if he yells "YOLO" and fires we don't get to do anything about it whether he's right or wrong.

yeah, except (a) i doubt he'd bet the game on his shot if he weren't going to shoot n1 in the first place (which he really should have done) and, (b) the possibility that a situation like this occurs where there's an alternative explanation for the death makes it a fucking dumb thing to do

zMuffinMan · Post Post #963 (isolation #140) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:38 pm

i suppose beeboy could just be that dumb. i doubt it, though

zMuffinMan · Post Post #966 (isolation #141) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:46 pm

i agree shooting anyone else was better. it's literally what i've been saying since the start of the day. it's part of why i started entertaining the mathblade+pieguy theory

and it's what i asked mathblade to justify with his dumb "muffin+greyice" theory because there's no world where i need to kill beeboy, let alone where i need to kill beeboy with my partner cross-bussing me all game

zMuffinMan · Post Post #967 (isolation #142) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:49 pm

In post 778, beeboy wrote:But everyone but you will yell at me if I am wrong >.>

In post 785, beeboy wrote:Can I just shoot no one?
>.>

In post 793, beeboy wrote:On the 1% chance this isn't scum trolling I won't shoot.

i also sincerely doubt these posts come from someone who thinks, "YOLO, FUCK EVERYONE"

zMuffinMan · Post Post #969 (isolation #143) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:03 pm

if i were scum who wanted to shoot you, i'd do it with my own hands and then piss all over your corpse while im at it

no offense

zMuffinMan · Post Post #970 (isolation #144) » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:14 pm

plus i would have just shot you n1 and laughed hysterically as you were powerless to stop me from the grave

zMuffinMan · Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:25 pm

i think if you really thought i was scum, you'd have more than just that to say about it

zMuffinMan · Post Post #977 (isolation #146) » Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:34 pm

yeah that link doesn't really prove anything

zMuffinMan · Post Post #978 (isolation #147) » Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:34 pm

why can't it be me-vedith? you were like 100% sure i was scum at the start of today

zMuffinMan · Post Post #979 (isolation #148) » Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:35 pm

why can't it be pieguy-vedith? pieguy just reverse his reads on you/vedith completely

zMuffinMan · Post Post #993 (isolation #149) » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:54 pm

i sincerely doubt vedith is scum. did a once-over of his ISO just to be sure - the pie read is at least consistent with his actions and i just don't really think he's scum

the only real question is whether pie decided to come out today hard-defending her buddy before doing a full 180 or whether greyice came out today guns blazing ready to bus. i really want it to be the latter because just because i realllly want to lynch greyice but it's prob just pieguy tbh

im also pretty much expecting a no kill tonight regardless of who's scum so im not really concerned about who vedith chooses to block

zMuffinMan · Post Post #996 (isolation #150) » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:59 pm

i am explicitly scum reading you over him at this point

that said, if we went into tomorrow with you somehow confirmed scum and him somehow confirmed town, i would have difficulty deciding who i want to lynch. on the one hand, win con, but on the other hand, lynching greyice. not gonna lie - id struggle with that decision

zMuffinMan · Post Post #998 (isolation #151) » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:01 pm

gonna laugh if it's just grey ice/pieguy and the game's been over since the cross vote

zMuffinMan · Post Post #999 (isolation #152) » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:02 pm

prob isn't though. prob just pieguy-mathblade

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:04 pm

well, whatever. im pretty sure ill be around tomorrow anyway so i don't really have anything else to say today

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:05 pm

greyice, will you do the honours and hammer or shall I?

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:06 pm

pieguy, write a 1000 word essay explaining why I should vote greyice over you tomorrow

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:07 pm

that's not 1000 words

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:10 pm

i will hold you to that, pieguy. first thing tomorrow, a 1000-word essay

you've felt really lazy this game so if you're town that's the least you should do

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:12 pm

and everyone who thought you were scum in this game died of mysterious causes - wisdom, dla, beeboy

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:14 pm

*shrug* really just waiting to see whether greyice has anything else to say today but given hell almost certainly be around tomorrow i actually don't really care

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:21 pm

fuck it. im taking the hammer because greyice didn't even do me the courtesy of responding to my reach out

Vote: Mathblade

tomorrow we will have a nice, long chat about why you haven't felt town in this game pieguy, and then you need to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside or you die

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:27 pm

i already feel like what you post is going to be incredibly underwhelming

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:45 pm

yes, very convincing

now, i

totally

don't believe it's pieguy-mathblade

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:48 pm

In post 1017, pieguyn wrote:was it really zmuffin and ICE?

well, shit.

In post 1018, pieguyn wrote:jesus fuck if that's the case I owe you a sheep or two.

sorry

everything about these two posts feels contrived

as though you've never seen scum troll post-lynch

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:52 pm

like you literally came out of this game like right before this started

In post 1999, MathBlade wrote:VOTE: Mathblade

lynch Shiro tomorrow people.

In post 2000, pieguyn wrote:. . . can't tell if scum trolling or if legit.

In post 2001, MathBlade wrote:I am so town. At least you had fun today yes?

In post 2002, MathBlade wrote:See you on the flip side. Looking forward to seeing the dead and scum PTs.

In post 2004, MathBlade wrote:...There is no if. It will be shown that I am of my alignment.

and that was your reaction there

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:53 pm

yeah, i'm pretty confident i called it

it's probably pieguy-mathblade

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:55 pm

yeah, right, because mathblade would never troll as scum?

zMuffinMan · Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:35 pm

nah i'm pretty certain at this point it's just pieguy mathblade

pieguy-town's first reaction to that isn't some half-baked "oh, i totally believe that, it must be greyice-muffin" at least not without acknowledging the possibility of trolling

zMuffinMan · Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:58 pm

it is unfortunate that the blood pact prevented us from ever sharing a common goal, greyice - i've always thought you were one of the strongest players i've played with and i would have liked to roll town with you

zMuffinMan · Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:45 pm

17:2 is only horribly bad because it's a horribly bad setup to play

it is (provably) almost mathematically balanced, but still very slightly scum-sided - the figures i linked are the actual figures for each of those setups in a mountainous game (here)

you could argue that people don't lynch completely randomly which, while true to some extent, doesn't really mean anything unless towns perform better than random on average (which probably isn't the case)