Micro 659: Game Of Thrones S1E2 GAME OVER

[Kraeg]

Vote: SirCakez

If you abbreviate his name, it will come out as "SIR C" which sounds like "CERSEI", and we all know Cersei is evil.

[Kraeg]

I think the characters who are scum are the ones who have been shown to be antagonizing in this certain episode.

[Kraeg]

But still the flavor of the game is GoT, and it has got to have some impact on the alignment of each character. The Lannisters seem to be the hostile ones, at least in this episode, it's just fair to think that they would be scum. Saying that they aren't necessarily evil makes it look like you are planting an excuse to claim as town when a rolecop investigates you and finds out that you're a Lannister(assuming there's a role cop).

[Kraeg]

also I'm gonna say Wisdom town

Can you at least enlighten us why you think Wisdom is town? Cause this post makes you look like a scum who's trying to associate himself with a town.

[Kraeg]

My vote on Cakez is merely a RVS vote. I don't know about the others.

[Kraeg]

i dont like kraeg so far

Yeah, because I questioned someone who is townreading you.

[Kraeg]

A handful of people have been discrediting the flavor discussions, and the more people discredit it, the more I think that there's something about the flavor that makes people not want to discuss it. Perhaps the flavor really points out certain things about the scum.

[Kraeg]

Widsom

- Good info.

Kuroi

- Do you see the two as separate entities, or do you think that flavor related discussion provides insight into gamestate knowledge?

No. I talked about it because I didn't see Kraeg's vote as a real one. He seemed to be obviously joking, but I pointed out something pointed out by GRRM (George R. R. Martin) in an interview, where he said no one is 100% good or 100% evil.

Yeah I agree. I also watch GoT, and everyone seems to be on the same level. Unlike in other series or movies, it's not really clear who's the baddie in the show. Everyone has their own interest. But for the purpose of the game, we have to make assumptions or conjectures as to which characters would likely be given a scum alignment because there should be clearly a baddie in a mafia game.

[Kraeg]

VOTE: Kraeg

- saying "this makes it look like you're scum" as opposed to "this makes me think you're scum" x2
- the arguments he uses I completely disagree with and find reachy
- vague shade net
- awkward phraseology
- possible that he knows lannisters are scum flavor

I'm saying "this makes it look like you're scum" because I'm trying to be objective. Saying "this makes me think you're scum" is subjective, and usually based on gut feeling and it's very easy for anyone to say what makes them think as scum.

You probably find it awkward because we're talking about the characters of the scum here, and it would be awkward for scum to read about people talking about them. I have my own reasoning why I think the lannisters are scum flavor, I didn't mentioned it out of the blue. Even if I knew beforehand that Lannisters are scum flavor, it's actually good for the town for me to be saying it, at least the town has an info they can use once people starts knowing each other's character. And why the hell would you even think that someone who thinks that lannisters are scum flavor is a scum? That doesn't make any sense. Seems like you just threw different negative comments just to paint me badly but not to justify why I am scum. Your reasoning for voting me is scummy.

Vote: Expedience

[Kraeg]

I'm gonna try my best to play this game.

It's my only one.

VOTE: Wisdom

For someone who said he's gonna try his best to play this game, you're playing this very badly. It's more than a day since you last posted, and the first time you came in here, you just left one post and walked out of the game. Didn't even try to engage in any convo. I'm not gonna be surprised if you flip as scum.

[Kraeg]

Kraeg do you usually get scumread as town?

I'm not really sure if I always get scumread. Sometimes people just scumread a certain player because that player opposed someone who is townreading them, or they simply just disagree with his ideas, and not really because they think that person is scum.

[Kraeg]

Then go ahead and lynch me. I'm pretty sure there's a scum in my wagon for me to be at L-1 this early. At least we can narrow the list the next day.

[Kraeg]

It has something to do with what you ask. Sometimes people scumread me for those reasons.

[Kraeg]

Kraeg do you usually get scumread as town?

I'm not really sure if I always get scumread. Sometimes people just scumread a certain player because that player opposed someone who is townreading them, or they simply just disagree with his ideas, and not really because they think that person is scum.

this response feels manipulating
you're subtly trying to make us think we're wrongly scumreading you for your "ideas"

I'm not saying that you are scumreading me for those reasons that's why I said it in third person. You are free to defend your reads.

[Kraeg]

I have no one in particular in mind who I think is a scum in my wagon. I'm just saying that I won't be surprised if at least one of the people in my wagon flips scum considering that it appears that I'm becoming a lynchbait here, and how convenient it is to point fingers at me due to the lack of people discussing and pointing fingers.

[Kraeg]

Kraeg

- You're at L-2 on page 5. Why are you saying you're lynch bait? I realize there's not many people posting, but why aren't you directly trying to engage with anyone instead of just complaining about the lack of discussion?

That's actually the problem, there's not many people posting so there's almost nothing to engage with. But I hope that you remember that I was trying to create discussion when I talked about the flavor. And I'm not complaining about the lack of discussion, I was just rationalizing why it would be convenient for people to scumread me. If you look at the previous posts, it's as if I'm the only one trying to stir the game until people started scumreading me. And that's very convenient for the scum, let someone do the talking, then jump on that person and scumread him.

Even if I'm only on L-2, a few other people has expressed their intention to vote me. They just didn't cast their vote.

[Kraeg]

All I tried to do is cast doubt on people? Wait, that's what this game is all about, and I did try to create discussion earlier.

[Kraeg]

Shit.

Later today, I swear.

No, this is already the third time you came in here promising to us that you'll post soon, and yet didn't. I'm already starting to think that this your way of "trying your best to play the game" - by promising to post soon which results into you not being able to give anything substantial in the game. There really isn't that many posts to read. You could have at least given us your general thoughts about the game or about some people here instead of just making a promise to post. I would be more inclined to think that his kind of play is a scum play.

Vote: BBT

[Kraeg]

@GL I don't think I need to explain what I'm saying there. It's self-explanatory.

[Kraeg]

dont tell me i have to explain why

I'll never ask. At least that will save you time.

[Kraeg]

What claim? My vote is independent of your claim that you will vote him if he still doesn't post about the game.

[Kraeg]

And what hammer are you talking about? I only have three votes. We need 5 votes for a lynch. Did you just implied that you're a scum and you're scum buddy will also jump on me?

[Kraeg]

Actually, I want to thank whoever asked me why I didn't consider claiming when I was at L-1. This just strengthens my belief that there's a scum on my wagon.

Here's why: If you remember earlier in the game, my joke vote ignited a discussion about the flavor, to which I engaged with. I have insisted that the flavor has something to do with the alignment. I have also stated my belief that the Lannisters would probably be the ones be given the scum alignment, and that insisting that they aren't or that the flavor does not have any relation to the alignment would seem like planting an excuse to refute a flavor cop investigation, assuming that there's a flavor cop.

Now, I think that the scum took this as me hinting that I am a flavor cop. So they may have painted me as a scum to try and get me to roleclaim, or maybe to lynch a town PR, if it ever comes to the point. I really think that there's a scum on my wagon because they would be motivated to lynch me this early or at least to make me roleclaim.

[Kraeg]

mollie plz be town

Why the change of heart?

Probably because of your post. The magic phrase is "I could hammer you".

[Kraeg]

if you end up being town coming up with this contrived bullshit im taking a break until the playerbase changes up

Thanks. You'll be having a long break.

[Kraeg]

I think mollie could be scum due to her wishy washy read on me. CC could also, he jumped on my immediately after Expedience voted me. But still, I still find BBT's behavior sketchy which is why I'm still putting him on the scum list.

[Kraeg]

Even if he doesn't have time for the game, it wouldn't really be difficult to read 2-7 pages of posts, with majority of the posts containing only one or two sentences. It's not like a lot has been happening since the game started. He could have at least left us a brief post about his thoughts instead of just a prod-dodge.

[Kraeg]

UNVOTE:

mollie please explain your change of mind

The guy who's very eager to see me get lynched suddenly unvotes.

[Kraeg]

bullshit

by that logic every lurker ever is scum because town would never lurk

You're taking this out of context. I'm only talking about this particular case in this particular game.

[Kraeg]

If you want me to claim, that's not gonna happen. You will have to decide without me claiming.

[Kraeg]

I didn't vote BBT just to deflect the votes on me. Do you seriously want people to just ignore a player who has prod-dodge for three times?

[Kraeg]

Well, goodluck scumreading mollie after I flip town.

[Kraeg]

Well, goodluck scumreading mollie after I flip town.

what does this even mean

That's for cakez. I'm referring to his "If Kraeg is town, mollie is scum, vice-versa" thing.

[Kraeg]

This is just a quick post. I don't have a lot of time right now.

@mollie. I dont think cakez is saying that conmanmick played in my game. He's saying it's another game, not necessarily the one I modded. Although I don't quite understand how he got confused with me and conmanmick. How do you get confused about someone who modded a game you played and someone whom you have played with.

[Kraeg]

I'm hesitant to give BBT a pass. From the very start of the game he has promised that he will play this the best way he can, but what we got were a series of promises to engage in the game at a later date which were never fulfilled. I don't think I can townread or at least null read someone who has repeatedly promised to do something and yet repeatedly failed to do so.

[Kraeg]

I'm up for a mollie or a BBT lynch.

[Kraeg]

@mollie

agreeing with you about cakez does not necessarily mean that I need to townread you. You were still wishy washy with your vote on me.

[Kraeg]

I also can't understand why people are giving BBT a pass. He promised he's gonna post something last Tuesday or else he'll replace out, but we didn't see him doing either of those. He has clearly lied to us several times.

Vote: BBT

[Kraeg]

So how is a neigbourizer automatically a scum? That's usually a pro-town role.

[Kraeg]

Can you at least give us the full details of what happened between the two of you last night

[Kraeg]

Given the fact that we hardly got anything from BBT last day because he prod dodged the whole day, I'm not going to be surprised if a neighbourizer would directly ask him about his role.

[Kraeg]

Or why he would be neighbourized.

[Kraeg]

shadow, You saying that I'm not giving much thought or reasoning with my vote when in fact, I did, is scummy. I am not pushing a BBT merely on his lack of content but also with lies he has repeatedly brought into this game. Last D1, he kept on promising to post content on his next post and even promised to replaced out if he wont, and yet we didn't see this happen. His push on Kuroi is not also convincing enough, and there isn't really that much reasoning provided to say that Kuroi is scum based on what happened between them last night.

I'm not saying that a neighbourizer is an auto-town role. Yes it can be a scum role but right now I just dont see any reason why Kuroi could be scum based on his posts. I do not want to scumread him merely because he's a neighbourizer because the role can either be town or scum. We also need to look into his posts and what happened between them during the night.

[Kraeg]

GL is sketchy. I dont know why. Probably because of the lack of posts.

[Kraeg]

Kuroi looks town to me. I'm comfortable with a BBT lynch and will not really change my vote that much for this day.

Anyway, what's with the gifs?

[Kraeg]

I've already answered Kuroi's question. Not gonna answer other questions.

[Kraeg]

How is that refusing to play the game? I just tend to pick questions to answer. It's not like I'm not gonna post my thoughts or vote.

[Kraeg]

I don't think I'll get a lynch on BBT, but I do think Shaddow is scum. He has also been quiet.

VOTE: Shaddowez

You don't think you'll get a lynch on BBT? He was at L-1 before you unvoted. Shaddow has expressed his intent to lynch BBT. He's close to getting lynched.

[Kraeg]

But his lies and his thing with Kuroi is still scummy. The problem is you are misrepping me, and that makes you scummy.

I'm willing to do BBT or shadow lynch.

[Kraeg]

shadow, so you're saying that being a lurker does not make a player a scum, and yet you are scum reading me because I'm "trying to sneak by"??

[Kraeg]

Vote: shaddowez

[Kraeg]

I hope you now understand why we need to lynch BBT

[Kraeg]

shaddow, I don't think it's necessary to inform you that my vote puts you at L-1. The last VC was on the top of the last page before Kuroi and I voted you. You should have still been on track with the votes.

[Kraeg]

How did I become a potential scum partner of BBT when I am a staunch proponent of his lynch?

[Kraeg]

Given the circumstances of shaddowez lynch, I do not think that his scum partner bus'd him. It's unlikely. It's not like the case against shaddow was so compelling that it would merit him being bus'd by his scum partner. Plus BBT and I were being scumread, it would have been very easy to deflect the votes on shaddow by pointing finger at either of us.

It's just down to PoE. mollie and GL was not on the wagon last day. One of them is the last scum. I'm going to bet that it's GL. It's consistent with the theory that shaddow's scum partner wouldn't have bus'd him. GL thought that there wouldn't be a quickhammer unless BBT will self-lynch and last day when everyone seem to be against shaddow, he townread shaddow.

Vote: GuiltyLion

[Kraeg]

If you remember on D1, I brought up the discussion about the flavor and how the Lannisters would be the scum in this game. Both shaddowez and GL called the discussion useless. If you were the scum Lannister, it would make sense to discredit this kind of discussion.

[Kraeg]

It would be better to go after the people who weren't on the shaddowez wagon before lynching anyone on the wagon.

[Kraeg]

Can you please not talk to me like I don't even understand a thing?

Yeah I know you declared your intent to hammer shaddz but it never happened and my reasoning is based on the theory that the scum would have bus'd his scum partner last day. An intent does not suffice so by PoE, I'll still consider you.

And yeah, I know you also called the flavor discussion useless but you were on the shaddz wagon which is why I cannot use that against you.

Seriously this game isnt about finding the best player in this site to criticize people how they're playing. This game is all about survival, and we're not really gonna go anywhere if you'll just criticize how bad or shallow everyone is.

For me it's just PoE at this point. If you want Kuroi, Ill consider voting him tomorrow if I'm still alive.

[Kraeg]

*wouldn't have bus'd

[Kraeg]

So GL you're saying that I am the scum partner and that I bus'd shaddz. Please convince me why I will bus shaddz when I can stay on the BBT wagon or vote someone else and it's not like everyone's gonna use PoE this day to even consider bussing to make myself not a scum partner of shaddow.

[Kraeg]

Ok. Point taken, then it should be GL.

[Kraeg]

GL the "scum is on my wagon" part should be taken lightly. That was just a mere D1 hunch and reaction test. It's not like I'm a cop and got and inv result during the day and I'm hinting that I got a scum result on any of them. So whether I was right or wrong about it, it doesn't really matter. That was D1 and this is D3.

[Kraeg]

If Kuroi is scum, it doesn't make sense for him to neighborize BBT on N1. BBT was practically not gonna be useful since he doesn't really post a lot. I think a scum neighbourizer would use their power to neighborize someone who is being generally townread and the he'd use that opportunity to find someone whocan vouch for him. There's just no benefit for a scum neighbourizer to neighbourize BBT. Him doing that should be a town move to talk to someone who hasn't been posting.

Last day he also switched his vote to shaddow when BBT was at L-1and when Wis was the only one on the wagon. It just doesn't make sense for scum Kuroi to immediately go against his partner at that point, and if he did I think he would have unvoted when shaddow reached L-1. Generally, he seem to be town.

[Kraeg]

Let's just lynch and see how GL or Kuroi flips.

[Kraeg]

The thing is if I'm gonna vote for Kuroi, I'll doit to sheep your read and get this day over. Not necessarily because I think Kuroi is scum.

[Kraeg]

Alright,

Vote: Kuroi

[Kraeg]

I'm just trying to give them the lynch they want. If Kuroi is town, then the last scum should be GL.

[Kraeg]

The thing is those comments could have been deliberately planted on me to create association later on after shaddow dies. Like I've said I find it unlikely that shaddow's partner bussed him last day given the circumstances of his lynch. It would be more convenient for the scum to deflect the votes and redirect it against me or BBT, and this one of the shaddow shaddow did when he said he didn't like that I hopped on his wagon with BBT supporting it. The arguments against shaddow was not so compelling to merit a bus. It just happened that a lot of people were on the same side about shaddow and BBT quickhammered.

[Kraeg]

Rickon Stark, VT.

Vote: GuiltyLion

It's obviously GL.

[Kraeg]

Welp, I was kinda hoping I don't need to explain why GL is scum. Like I've said, I do not think that shadow's scum buddy bussed him. The wagon on him formed quickly and the cases against him wasn't that much compelling to merit him being bussed. It only came from reads which can be easily refuted and the attention that time can easily be redurected to BBT or me or to any other player. It's not like there's a cop here who announced that he got a scum result on shaddow, in which case his scum partner would be left with no choice but to bus him.

At that time when shadow was at L-1, GL posted that he townreads shadow. Also, even though Wisdom seem to be the most active and the one who contributes a lot in this game, he never got killed until last night because he roleclaimed. If you go back to Wisdom's reads you'll see that he townread GL since D1 and it would make sense for scum GL to keep someone like him alive.