Micro 661 | Scumteam UnPick - Pressure Done

[Tenshii]

VOTE: Creature

VOTE: ZZZX

I am town 1-shot double voter. Fortunately, I already found the scumteam. Also I think we should scumhunt first, then reveal unpicks later on.

[Tenshii]

Oh and the yellow is fine imo, Creature's tone is just scummy af.

[Tenshii]

My picks were random. ((Dunhallym + Jaack)) ((Gamma Emerald + ZZZX))

Also I'm kinda nitpicking but I think the word "pick" is redundant in the chart and makes the chart unnecessarily bigger.

[Tenshii]

Kinda neat that fmpov Gamma can only be scum with Dunhallym.

[Tenshii]

Oh yeah. I also hate the argument for using probabilities as a means for lynching.

[Tenshii]

I'm not going to go into much more until tenshii reveals his picks, but I have a few ideas.

Hi.

Final Chart (Removed the word pick to appease tenshii

Ayy.

[Tenshii]

IF you are scum then you are doing a good job of playing it out in public but i am convinced that you arent and that to me leaves only two groups.

Why?

[Tenshii]

And for this you think Jin & I are scum? this looks like you're building a case over nothing.

I don't see how you got this though.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

I think the chart is just a distraction from actual scumhunting and brings a false sense of progression of the game. Like I still think we're in an RVS-esque state with not alot of information, especially considering that a large majority of the game so far was setup/strategy discussion.

[Tenshii]

You are getting all of that off of a joke vote that i placed "so i can put the game on my list"?

You either have amazing superhuman reading skills or you are making things up out of nothing.

VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

Wrt the bold, the former wouldn't be considered by town because they know they're town. Town would just jump to the conclusion of the latter.

[Tenshii]

I would've loved to see the Jaack vs Jin argument develop out more but I'll just put my thoughts into it since Dunhall is asking.

I think Jin doesn't see the value of RVS very much considering that he didn't participate in it. He even went to the extent of self voting. So I can see how Jin could interpret Jaack's vote on Jin as a shitty serious vote and return it with an OMGUS.

You want discussion? Okay. Who or what do you want to talk about?

I think I'm going to start here:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

Both ArcAngel and Jin had less than stellar RVS votes, but I didn't really like how Jin walked his back after being called out on it.

Both ArcAngel and Jin had less than stellar RVS votes, but I didn't really like how Jin walked his back after being called out on it.

You are aware that A) My RVS vote was on myself and still is and B) I didnt walk anything back and i wasnt called out on anything. Jaacks whole post is weirdly defensive, or just plain weird.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Jaack

Also I'm not sure if it's because Jin keeps saying "I'm town" so much but I like the way Jin is speaking in his posts.

As far as Jaack goes, I can understand his mindset towards RVS. RVS is a tool to start discussion aka scumhunting. So Jaack's mindset is "Not participating in RVS is therefore scummy". Except it generally isn't. There are town who choose to not participate in RVS. Just like how there are town who are shitposty, or trolly, whatever. But if we go under the logic that Jaack basically just made an RVS vote then the vote is more than fine. Although I don't townread Jaack, I just think what he's done is pretty standard and NAI.

[Tenshii]

VOTE: ProHawk

I don't really like ProHawk. His 1st reason for scumreading Jin isn't even good. His 3rd reason says he uses AtE when there wasn't even AtE in it to begin with.

Gamma probably can't be scum, maybe its conf-bias, but maaan does he look like scum. Imagine all of the people who would be confirmed town if he flipped scum!.... so tempting.

And this post is just throwing all kinds of shade. He goes from a lean town read to a lean scum read in one sentence. And then uses probability as a justification for getting his flip. And there's no real case/evidence here to justify any kind of read on Gamma. It's a really empty post.

[Tenshii]

There are a few posts that I don't like about Jin.

In post 80, Secret Agent Jin wrote:
need Jaack to be in all my games from now on.

^This after Jaack puts him in a pool of three lynch candidates.

I guess we can do a quick test... What is my 1st reason for scumreading Jin?

Your 119. That's also what I meant by I don't get how that's even a reason for scumreading Jin.

He goes from a lean town read to a lean scum read in one sentence.

Huh?

Your 121.

One last thing Tenshii, what is your read on Gamma?

I don't have one. If I had to force one it'd be slight town but it's really weak. Do you have a read?

[Tenshii]

I've reread his iso and I will tell you that I still have a slight town read.

In all seriousness, I don't get it. So plz explain.

P-Edit: I'll give you my interpretation after you give me yours.

[Tenshii]

If the read is dependent on him not being original, why would you want me to read him based off of his ISO? Also idk what drive-by-posts are.

[Tenshii]

@ProHawk

Oh. When you said "give me your interpretation," if you were talking about my reasons for scumreading you, I already gave them.

Well the AtE point I can understand. I just misinterpreted it because you quoted a post that didn't contain AtE. But everything else still stands.

WRT Jin and Jaack, Jaack puts Jin into a possible scum-pool, then Jin compliments Jaack. Brown-nosing, sucking up, buddying, whatever you want to call it. Have you never seen scum do this?

I haven't. And even then I don't understand why it would be AI. Jaack's scum-pool was based off of statistics in the first place, so you can't particularly get heated about it or anything. Are you talking about scum buddying up to Jaack for putting effort into things like making charts? I have seen that. But I have seen town do that as well.

[Tenshii]

And even then I don't understand why it would be AI. Jaack's scum-pool was based off of statistics in the first place, so you can't particularly get heated about it or anything. Are you talking about scum buddying up to Jaack for putting effort into things like making charts? I have seen that. But I have seen town do that as well.

I don't know what AI stands for... And I disagree with you, if you are scum, you will be VERY upset that you are getting lynched based on statistics. Yes, I am talking about scum buddying. Scum has more motivation than town to do this IMO.

AI = Alignment Indicative. It might just be me but I'd get upset if I got lynched based on statistics for either alignment. What is the motivation for Jin to buddy up to Jaack here?

[Tenshii]

Gamma probably can't be scum, maybe its conf-bias, but maaan does he look like scum. Imagine all of the people who would be confirmed town if he flipped scum!.... so tempting.

So after reading Gamma's theory post, were you saying that "Gamma probably can't be scum (because of the chart), but maan does he look like scum (because of a read?)" Cuz if you did, that makes a ton of sense.

[Tenshii]

@ProHawk You know what. No. I got this. Chart OP.

I'll borrow your townread on Dunhalll. I can't be scum with Gamma fmpov. Therefore Gamma is town too. I got 2 townreads for the price of 1. Let's go.

No wait no. By that logic, you should be pushing me because you townread Dunhall.

In all seriousness what do you think of Gamma's ISO from 102+ in terms of bringing ideas to the table.

[Tenshii]

I have a thought but first:

Can everyone please give a read on ProHawk?

Like slight town. I think the way he replied to my accusations on him implied confidence in the idea he's town

ONe question I dont get @tenshii and @jack. Why are you just so focused on his RVS vote? Am I missing something or wat.

His wagon was because of an RVS vote.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

[Tenshii]

umm, it looks like he is trying? What do you think about ArcAngel?

If he's trying, what does that say about him drive-by posting as scum? ANd whatnot. ArcAngel is my best scumread, although it's weak. Mainly cuz of an overreaction to an accusation that was never there.

[Tenshii]

I'll come back to what I think of the Jin issue later on but a few comments:
1) the case on him started with RVS thing but is certainly not limited to it.
2) repeating over and over that you're town doesn't make it so. So I don't really understand the underlined part.
3) you earlier voted fro Jin because of what you interpreted as a "slip". Have you changed your mind on that?

1) Then what is it? Reactions? His reactions were due to a different interpretation on a vote on him that was because of RVS.
2) I liked the way he's speaking, although I might be confusing the way he's speaking because he says "I'm town" so much.
3) The slip wasn't AI, I just pushed for a reaction

[Tenshii]

Okay nvm. I don't get why Jin flip flopped on his read on Jaack. It only makes sense if he was trying to cover up for himself.

VOTE: Jin/Kyouko

[Tenshii]

Lol Idk. I think Kyouko's push on me is town but then idk where else to vote.

I'm thinking here

VOTE: Something_Smart

But I don't really have a case to support it.

Also I dont agree with any townblock.

[Tenshii]

I don't have time to expand but the speed at which ssbm changes his plan from we have to lynch between ssmart and d'un to let's trust each other and lynch Tenshii whom he said was likely town in a previous post does nothing to convince me of his innocence. I think he's trying a desperate gambit.

Why aren't you voting me if you think I'm scum?

VOTE: Dunhallym

[Tenshii]

@tenshii - Are you still scumreading ProHawk?

No not atm. Just kinda paranoid he shifted from a scumread to a townread on me after I townread him but other than that I feel okay on townreading him. Are you scumreading ProHawk?

[Tenshii]

From my perspective, there is a 50% chance that Dunhallym is scum which goes against my read there, but I guess I have to take that into account when looking for scum today.

I don't understand how you got that.

[Tenshii]

@Something_Smart Why were and/or are you scumreading me?

[Tenshii]

@Anyone, Why is Jaack your townread?

I see how Tenshii misinterpreted it, and I'm interpreting it to mean that you scumread ssbm's abrupt change of opinion (which was later revealed to be a reaction test), which I'm pretty sure is what you meant.

What posts are you guys talking about?

The math leads me to believe Dunhallym is simply the best lynch. The odds are good and I think that SS's points in 322 are good enough that my townread there has faded. But I'm not locked in there.

SS doesn't even talk about Dunhall there.

[Tenshii]

My reasoning in 210 still applies. It's really just that all of his posts seem to be transparently working for the benefit of the town, in a way that would be very difficult to fake.

I don't get it. Can you quote posts that show this?

[Tenshii]

.... I may need to do some re-evaluating...

[5] ssbm_Kyouko - Jaack, ProHawk, Gamma Emerald, Dunhallym, ssbm_Kyouko [LYNCH]

This wagon can't be ALL town can it?

Unlikely for it to be all town.

VOTE: Dunhallym

His posts have a decent trajectory of trying to figure out where scum is hiding. What is your read there?

Null. I think alot of what he's done is mechanical and NAI.

@Tenshii

Okay nvm. I don't get why Jin flip flopped on his read on Jaack. It only makes sense if he was trying to cover up for himself.

VOTE: Jin/Kyouko

Can you explain what you meant by "cover up for himself"? Also why did you bring this argument at this specific point when it had been debated over and over for pages before?

As in abandoning the read for the purpose of building a counterwagon. I brought it up because my read on him changed. Also do you have reads?

[Tenshii]

The primary reason why you've been townread is because you're scumhunting in the sense of asking questions yet with all of the questions you ask I don't see you drawing any conclusions.

Also in a worst case scenario with you flipping town, a nightkill makes 5way lylo simpler to play because each person alive in 5way only has 1-2 combos.

[Tenshii]

Ok. So I'm not quick enough for your taste. So tell me what have YOU been doing? Or anyone for that matter? What are your reads?

I don't know/remember. I don't think I've done much, if anything, but I don't care enough to reread my ISO to confirm

ProHawk Town - Because of how he interacted with me
SS Town - Articulates well and has unbiased thought processes from what I can tell
Jaack Null - Hes a wide townread but I don't really see it. If I had to force a read I'd say town mainly cuz everyone else isl
Gamma Null - P-Edit: So originally I had nothing on Gamma and was gonna put him down as a nullread but when I was typing this out I kinda had to force myself to think about it and then I remembered what (I think ZZZX) brought up about his posting style and it still holds true. I don't really remember him doing anything significant. So scumread.
ZZZX Null - Don't like his activity though
Dunhall Scum - Scumhunting without coming to conclusions.

So atm I think Gamma has a slightly better chance of flipping scum (off of reads) but off of statistics I think it's better to lynch Dunhall.

[Tenshii]

Wait so am I replaced?

[Tenshii]

Fuck my bad though for my activity.

[Tenshii]

Uh long story short, when he replied back to me with my scum case on him, it felt as if he was really confident in the idea he was town. And his replies had the implication that my case didn't make logical sense, which tbf fmpov I initially thought it did.

[Tenshii]

@Jaack Why are you townreading Gamma?