Micro 753: Votefuckery (Game Over)

[Sakura Hana]

how exactly does the time relate to your willingness to engage with me?

Wtf is this even supposed to mean.
The answer's already on my post.
You said you needed to interact with me to get a read on me and made no effort to do so.
And now that im tunneling you, you complain that im being a brick wall.

yeah, i wanted to interact with you to get a read on you. i'm making an effort to do so

right now

. it's not painting the best picture really.

Oh really.
Tell me more.
I already saw this coming from a mile away.

[Sakura Hana]

the game kinda died with 4 people effectively voteless.

Ouch

beeboy is a good lynch imo, saves me the hassle of being lynched tomorrow.

?
What makes you think you'd be lynched tomorrow?

[Sakura Hana]

Well my reads are an entangled mess right now:

northsidegal - Scum
A Simple Plan - Town if PP is scum; otherwise null
PenguinPower - null-scum if NSG is scum; otherwise null-town
Alisae - Town
Maruchan - Town if ASP is town; otherwise null-scum
Sobolev Space - Town
beeboy - Town
Not_Mafia - null-Town

[Sakura Hana]

My lack of hindsight has gotten us into this mess, im not gonna leave this day without a scum lynch to make up for it.

[Sakura Hana]

Are those town reads based on anything, or just POE?

They are based off stuff yes.

[Sakura Hana]

Well my reads are an entangled mess right now:

northsidegal - Scum
A Simple Plan - Town if PP is scum; otherwise null
PenguinPower - null-scum if NSG is scum; otherwise null-town
Alisae - Town
Maruchan - Town if ASP is town; otherwise null-scum
Sobolev Space - Town
beeboy - Town
Not_Mafia - null-Town

Guess i'll explain most of these.

Alisae has been pretty town overall throughout the day phase, i like eir contributions.
Beeboy, i dont think scum beeboy would go and say what he said about not playing with me if im scum.
Sobolev, This one i've been spinning my head around, but I keep going back to "town" regardless of whatever NSG flips even if it seems like NSG is trying to connect themselves to her.
NM, He's been the first one to go against NSG's slot, but i have no idea how to read this slot, so im gonna go for null-town for now.

-- Then we have the entangled mess of preflip associatives --

ASP, this wagon sprang after NSG was being wagoned, mostly led by PP, i doubt this indicates partners, but it certainly seems like an attempt at a CW from PP, so if PP is scum, this is def. town.
PP, After initially attacking NSG, tried to CW into ASP when ASP wasnt around, it can be a way to defend NSG if NSG is scum, but not entirely sure, null-scum if NSG is scum, otherwise null-town as it'd be weird for PP scum to have abandoned that wagon on town.
Maruchan, had the chance to hammer ASP, instead gave reads and asked permission to hammer, also has ASP as high townread, if ASP is town, this makes no sense as a move from Maruchan-scum, if ASP is scum, then i have no idea what to think of this other than a last ditch effort to divert the lynch from a partner, so null-scum.

-- And finally --

We have NSG. Which im just flat out scumreading.

[Sakura Hana]

in terms of associatives i think asp lynch > nsg but still fine with either

Why?

[Sakura Hana]

Well, I still think she isnt.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah i saw your post, i dont trust someone being "newb" or not.
Although I admit i'd have a hard time explaining because i can't words, it's not that i wanted to be a brick wall to her, although generally im not gonna convince scum that they are scum anyway.

[Sakura Hana]

Like her posts just give me a vibe that she's more worried about clearing herself than finding scum.

[Sakura Hana]

So let me get this straight, you're townreading her for that post, regardless of experience level?

[Sakura Hana]

Says the person that townreads people for fatalism

[Sakura Hana]

Well, regardless, she doesnt look like a newb, more like an alt.
I'm not gonna go easy on her, I do think scum is capable of omgusing like that, but that's because I've done it before, then again, people do think im capable of almost everything as scum, so i probably shouldn't use myself as a base.

[Sakura Hana]

sakura could you get one board with an asp lynch today?

Not really

[Sakura Hana]

As for seeing people being survivalistic as town... Well i dont see any reason for her to be survivalistic, her role seems more NU than you'd think, specially if she inherits something like ASP's or bee's role, or heck even mine or Sobolev's. She waited until I was tunneling her, to start complaining about me being a brick wall, instead of engaging me when i wasnt tunneling, doesnt feel like she ever wanted to sort me, and as a result, im gonna predict that she's gonna scumread me, she's been preparing for it for a while.

[Sakura Hana]

not mafia is, as always, an enigma. despite his meta, as town i would typically expect him to have reads that he would be pursuing, even if he doesn't give explanations, ie he would pick up on something and then start voting that person for it, even if he wouldn't really make a case. i don't think he's really done that this game. there was the fake hammer in 516, but i'm not sure that really means anything.

Thing is this sort of thing doesnt look like coming from a newb.

[Sakura Hana]

Although if List Mod didnt say anything about that, then maybe im wrong.

Well... its not like i was epecting not to be wrong anyway..........


.
.
.

[Sakura Hana]

Sigh...
Sometimes I dont even know why I do stuff, guess I'm doomed to being wrong.
UNVOTE:
Whatever

[Sakura Hana]

If after all this, NSG is actually scum.
Im not ever gonna forgive myself for second guessing myself after being right.

[Sakura Hana]

But seriously guys, it's only D1, what are you all getting apathetic for.

[Sakura Hana]

There's also less than 2 days and a half until deadline.
And seems that all my attempts at finding scum have been met with objections.

[Sakura Hana]

i dont think ASP is scum tho.
I'd first lynch my NU role than someone that at least looks like it's better at scumhunting than me.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah, my role is the cause of this apathy to begin with...

[Sakura Hana]

I still cant shake the feeling that NSG is scum.
But I've been wrong so often lately that I have a hard time believing myself over someone else.

[Sakura Hana]

And people want to lynch ASP apparently.

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: North
I think this is L-1

[Sakura Hana]

ASP is a lazy wagon
North is a lazy wagon
The only other 3 options are myself, bee and you.
I doubt you want to lynch yourself.
So the other options are myself or bee.
Last i heard you townread me and had a bunch of nulls.
So are you saying that bee is scum? otherwise i dont see this day going the way you want it.

[Sakura Hana]

What are you on to?
If all you're gonna do is complain, but dont want a no lynch, I dont see you offering anything else other than "North is town because of post X" "ASP wagon is a lazy wagon", it's hard for me to take it and believe your words.

[Sakura Hana]

Why would you even be lynched.
We figured my role counters yours no?

[Sakura Hana]

3?

[Sakura Hana]

We figured my role counters yours no?

[Sakura Hana]

@North: I was referring to this post by Alisae:

what are your opinions of the ASP wagon

It's a really lazy wagon

The entire post you quoted was towards Alisae.

We figured my role counters yours no?

So we freeze the votes on you again tomorrow?
What does that accomplish?

I have a plan

[Sakura Hana]

i wonder if it could be an asp/maru scumteam

Yeah, i already noted that in my previous reads list

[Sakura Hana]

And if you get NK'd over PP then what?
I want death vote me.

.
.
.

Why would I even get NK'd if i've been supposedly wrong about everything this game.

[Sakura Hana]

My main problem is that Alisae complains about every single wagon, but is doing nothing ever since eir engangement with North.

And im not sure how that fits into that theory.

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: ASP
I suppose, I liked North's latest post anyway.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh and if it wasnt obvious.
If im alive tomorrow, please use only pseudovotes at the start, even if you're not gonna be voting me.
I'll consider any votes before I try out any plan I have, a scum claim.

If im not alive, due to bee's role, that too.

[Sakura Hana]

And here i was looking forward to having a game with you.

[Sakura Hana]

I wish I could be like that tbh.

I'm never charismatic or convincing enough to push anything.

All i ever do is vote ppl i feel are scum and hope someone sees what i see.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah yeah whatever maybe I'll get invested in the game when I have a vote

Sorry :<

[Sakura Hana]

What an exciting discussion we're having this twilight.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh...
lol
Forgot about not mafia.

[Sakura Hana]

Does this mean that the only viable lynches are me and north then?

[Sakura Hana]

Unless he magically appears to hammer ASP

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: No lynch

I want an even number of players.

We have an even number of players.

[Sakura Hana]

Also didnt i say yesterday to use pseudovotes today?
Scum already got a free kill and you're giving them ANOTHER one?

[Sakura Hana]

One thing i find interesting tho is, why PP, i mean, I was thinking that if north is town i'd get killed to give her a NU role.

[Sakura Hana]

Yes because I don't want an odd number of players.

We have an even number of players, wtf are you on about.

[Sakura Hana]

Another townie.

[Sakura Hana]

Dont you mean NM?

[Sakura Hana]

We already lost a lynch, we dont need to lose another one.
Giving scum 2 free kills is like straight up giving an entire day phase up (2 town deaths) on ppl we wouldnt ever lynch to begin with.

[Sakura Hana]

If ASP is town we need every single town vote to lynch correctly today btw lol.

Why? he said he was only voteless D1.

[Sakura Hana]

that nightphase wasnt even long...

[Sakura Hana]

But if you're going to be a jerk about it, im not gonna care about your auto hammer triggering.
All you've been done lately is being a jerk anyway.
It'd probably be better for my sanity to ignore your posts.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah im fine with either of those 2 dying tbh.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah im fine with either of those 2 dying tbh.

[Sakura Hana]

Well, if you're all gonna act like that
VOTE: No Lynch

[Sakura Hana]

Because the almighty god of MLG mafia said so.

[Sakura Hana]

Because the almighty god of MLG mafia said so.

is this passive-aggressive pettiness really necessary?

Sorry, that wasnt mean to offend you

[Sakura Hana]

UNVOTE:
And the first thing i say, the first ppl do, well whatever, it will not be my fault if ppl get their votes frozen again for not following instructions.

[Sakura Hana]

Im just gonna lay it out here, if i see someone with 2 votes, they're gonna be very sorry for stealing Alisae's vote....

VERY sorry.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura btw
Beeboy is like
confirmed town.

Do you see me voting him?

[Sakura Hana]

Like if you don't want to play mafia with me, whatever we don't need to play together.

@sakura

I actually almost replaced out myself, but decided to wait in case your or I get NK'd, but you know how i feel about what you said, i decided to try and endure it as it would be better for the game, but dont expect me to not get mad at you if my sanity snaps.

[Sakura Hana]

Well we need to prevent bee's auto hammer first, so I need bee to pick someone he wants to vote and be 100% sure he doesnt want to vote elsewhere first.
Which also means he needs to vote there first.
In the meantime, might as well

Psuedovote: Space

[Sakura Hana]

Hmmm...
What, did I just read...

[Sakura Hana]

Pseudounvote

(not like that even matters)

[Sakura Hana]

I need to re-read that whole interaction again, because maybe I missed something.

[Sakura Hana]

because maybe I missed something.

Come again?

I'm saying that your whole interaction with SS is making me lean town on SS and scum on you, which is a flip of what I had earlier, so I'm re-reading coz maybe im misinterpreting or missing something.

[Sakura Hana]

Like
You are aware
that this is what SS wants
right?

Well I mean you BOTH have a point.

SS didnt actually have much of a reason to strongarm a lynch on ASP.
But she also has a point that the only potential lynches yesterday was the group of me, you, bee, north and ASP.
You didnt want either of the later 2, you didnt want a no lynch, and i doubt you'd have wanted yourself, so i'd have been between me and bee, I asked this same question yesterday and your reply was that you didnt care coz apathy or probably faking apathy.
So it's not like you did much of anything to prevent said NL from happening.

Also im not buying the "information" you have in a game with vote based roles, but im putting that on the side for now because im starting to doubt EVERY role is vote related. Not that said Information would've done anything for me as I had already a strong TR on bee.

I really wanna know where your thought process about that was and is now. Because you kinda dodged the question twice by now.

[Sakura Hana]

And excuse me for not seeing "obvious scum" but im not guillable to follow your every step.
I find something worth questioning in the discussion and i'll do so.

[Sakura Hana]

I really wanna know where your thought process about that was and is now. Because you kinda dodged the question twice by now.

what are you asking.
I don't see it.

About your thought process behind not wanting to lynch either of the 5 only lynch options but not wanting a NL either. Unless you actually wanted me or bee to die yesterday.

[Sakura Hana]

On another note, if you have #Information on bee being conf town provided by your role, means that role would be useless in scum hands, which would lead more credence to north's role being more town oriented, but you kept insisting it wasnt AI if it was confirmed.

If it's not role related, then idk where you'd have obtained said information other than by flat out being scum tho.

P-Edit: So what gives with this post:

Why would I respond to that?
You already had several game days before to engage with me, and you decide to do it now that im in tunnel mode? well though luck then.

BTW we should not no lynch

P-Edit 2: @Alisae

[Sakura Hana]

You keep missing the point.
I'm not sure whether on purpose or not however.

P-Edit: I wasnt even asking you to claim.

[Sakura Hana]

You kinda were
but I mean hey
I don't really care?
I kinda just want to die
so...

Not really, I could work under the assumption that you had a role that could give you that information.
And you're still missing the point / dodging the question / whatever.

I dont know how much more explicit I can get.

[Sakura Hana]

I'll try again, but im getting tired of asking the question, tbf, i'm often misunderstood/misrep'd so it may be my way of typing things out:

Ok so North claims a confirmable role, the role by itself it's not AI, specially with the claimed roles we had have at that point, but you knowing your role exists, which would be a useless role for scum to copy, your push on North felt even weirder.
Then later on you state that you dont want a NL, But it's impossible to lynch anyone outside of bee, me, you, north and ASP, you apparently disagree with all 4 of those. Then what were you going after?

[Sakura Hana]

The only possible lynches were
Me
You
North
Bee
ASP

Which of these do you lynch day 1 if you dont want a no lynch.

[Sakura Hana]

Like it seriously cant get any more explicit than that.

[Sakura Hana]

Like
if I had to pick one, it would have to be ASP even though the lynch to me looks like it was stongarmed by scum.

And...
That's exactly what SS was doing.

[Sakura Hana]

It was impossible to lynch outside of that, there werent enough votes.

[Sakura Hana]

If you dont believe me, let's do a experiment

Sakura (2)

beeboy, Alisae

North (1)

North

Not Voting: Not Mafia, Penguin Power, Sakura, Sobolev, Maru
Can't Vote: ASP.

Find me a lynch that doesnt involve someone self-voting

[Sakura Hana]

Well "not someone self voting" not including north who had her vote frozen on herself.

[Sakura Hana]

Nope, he said he could only move his vote anonymously, but he couldnt have a 2nd vote.

[Sakura Hana]

ok
I think I get what you are getting at

I lynch ASP D1, but that doesn't mean I can't oppose the lynch.
Because I still hate it.

Yeah, and that's what SS's been telling you that she was doing, it was an information lynch out of the 5 possible lynch options.

[Sakura Hana]

I wouldnt blame you for missing the fact that it was impossible to head anywhere outside those 5, you had your vote frozen and seemed quite apathetic.
But if you'd lynch ASP, isnt that doing the same thing SS was doing? you know, the thing you're accusing her of doing?

I ask you to look at it over again with this in mind and if you still think she's scum then come and tell me why with that information in mind and I'll look at your case again.

But at this point, I just think both of you are town misunderstanding each other.

[Sakura Hana]

like sakura i think ur pointing out the same things i was trying to get at so can you tell me at all if u can see ali's responses coming from someone with town motivation

That's what im trying to figure out, im removing all the possible misunderstandings so I can better tell what's going on here.

[Sakura Hana]

if anything all i see is SS trying to ensure a lynch happened D1.
But if you disagree, now that you know that only those 5 could've been lynched, I want you to look it over again, with a fresh mind, if you still think she's scum, then come and tell me why, that will make it easier to tell who's the town of you if not both.

[Sakura Hana]

like imo towns motive yesterday should've been first trying to find a good lynch so the fact that alisae has been so resistant on this point indicates a scum mindset

I think this is kinda muddled by the fact that Alisae hadnt realized it was impossible to lynch outside those 5 + Apathy.
Hence my posting.

Once again, I dont think you could be wrong, it's possible you're right, im just trying to figure out if this is just you 2 misunderstanding each other.

Anyway that's my current opinion on it.

[Sakura Hana]

i literally said multiple times yesterday that those were our only possible lynches...
alisae missing this is either willful ignorance or atrocious reading
like e comes out with this read on me after supposedly isoing me but missed this in my iso? what?

I did too.
And it took me SEVERAL posts today to get the point across.
Wouldn't surprise me at this point....

[Sakura Hana]

Like if you notice how long it took me to explain that fact to Alisae today, why are you surprised e missed it yesterday.

[Sakura Hana]

Like if you notice how long it took me to explain that fact to Alisae today, why are you surprised e missed it yesterday.

Do you think her read on me is natural or agenda based?

As of right at the start of this entire situation i'd say natural, i mean that's what i felt when i read through your initial interaction.
Then when I tried to explain to you, I noticed that your read on her was because you werent aware it was mechanically impossible to lynch outside those 5 yesterday, and you even came to the same conclusion she did.

Further than that me trying to explain this to you, it seems like neither of you is budging and, well...

I don't even know what to think at this point.

[Sakura Hana]

Like if you notice how long it took me to explain that fact to Alisae today, why are you surprised e missed it yesterday.

its more plausible to me that alisae understood this but feigned not doing so than that e missed it after it being multiple times in my iso and my entire defense today being based around the constraints on towns lynch power

It would be easier to know if this was the case if both you werent going against each other guns blazing, like you not budging is also giving alisae reason to not budge on it.
And alisae not reconsidering is giving you also reason to not budge on it.

Which makes it harder to tell who's the town and who's the scum here if not T/T.

[Sakura Hana]

With all the misunderstandings gone, tbh, both of you seem like overdoing it, or dont want to be wrong, or simply because the other is not budging.
Neither looks natural to me now.
Which obviously cant be the case unless this is the cross bus of the century, and even in that situation why not leave it be if both can just be townread, so yeah no, nevermind, S/S is impossible.

[Sakura Hana]

Sorry i just cant stop thinking this is just T/T

[Sakura Hana]

Anyway, imma take a break from now, I've given my opinion on the mater, not willing to vote either of you without a more convincing argument that isnt based off "i cant believe e didnt realize it" or "he was strongarming a lynch without many reasons".
Prefer to let other people pitch in too.

[Sakura Hana]

Took me a while but i can finally understand what was going on in both of your heads yesterday. Anyway, Im just gonna wait for the others to give their thoughts on the whole thing.

[Sakura Hana]

Btw assuming that what we had here is a TvT, this is where i am at right now:

Town:

Alisae
beeboy
Sobolev

Towny:

North

NFI:

Not Mafia
Maru
ASP

Can it really be this easy.

[Sakura Hana]

I mean if it's not TvT then we'd already have 1 scum between the 2, so it's also easy regardless but...
Maybe im missing something, or is the game technically solved... aside from the Alisae vs SS thing.

[Sakura Hana]

ok so we can try to enact my plan now to prevent the auto hammer so then we can vote normally, but for now i require north and NM to stop voting unless they dont care if their votes are frozen where they are.

[Sakura Hana]

Hey Gork, nice to see you again!

[Sakura Hana]

whats something you think i should know about the game?

Well, read Alisae x Sobolev day 1.
then read Alisae x Sobolev day 2.

And tell me if you think it's T/T or T/S.
That's the main problem we're dealing with here atm.

If you need more information to make an informed decission then just read all of D1 and my engagement with Alisae today.

Afterwards you can focus on the rest.
Also, I need to know if beeboy lied about any part of his role or not, coz my role can cancel the negative portion of it by freezing your vote.

[Sakura Hana]

probably reading maru after i'm done with this.

also sakura why do you have alisae at the top of your town list? like even if you didn't buy the arguments i had for scum!alisae has e done anything super towny?

Eir whole D1 was pretty towny to me up until the point they got apathetic after their engagement with North.
My current reads list is based off the assumption that your engagement is T/T, also, there's no specific order in that one list, all of ppl in each tier are more or less the same strength, and if Alisae's town, by default so is Gorkington, and then you if that argument is T/T.

On the case that it's T/S, then my read on all those 3 isnt as strong, and maybe except Gork, who i had a solid TR on bee day 1 anyway, and then i'd have to figure out which of you 2 is scum.

[Sakura Hana]

What.

Anyway, the good thing is that in both scenarios scum is rekt, as long as we can correctly identify is it's T/S or T/T.

Which is pretty much the point i've been struggling with.

[Sakura Hana]

sakura's town.

<3

[Sakura Hana]

Why NM being around between L-1 and deadline matters? It was obvious we wanted to lynch you since way before, he could've changed his vote before the L-1 that we all thought was a hammer.

Btw, I concur with North's questioning of you. More town points for North.

Sakura's town

<3

[Sakura Hana]

good idea, let's finish the game with an entire different playerlist that started it.

Oh well, hope it's just he didnt have time for it.

[Sakura Hana]

Also @Gork:

Also, I need to know if beeboy lied about any part of his role or not, coz my role can cancel the negative portion of it by freezing your vote.

[Sakura Hana]

Im not in a good mood right now, if you need me please leave a message after the tone.
BEEEP!

V/LA 1 week

[Sakura Hana]

RadiantCowbells replace Maruchan.

<3

[Sakura Hana]

the more RC posts the more i wanna lynch ASP.
Maybe i dont really need to bother freezing votes today.

But i'm just gonna come clean already and take the hate mail up front.

[Sakura Hana]

To anyone familiar with me it shouldnt be a surprise by now, I was actually kinda gambiting with my role because I found literally no use for it, my ability's not NU, it's actually Active not Reactive, hence why my initial claim was kinda... weird, as all it takes is a PM to the mod to freeze everything that's voting someone, I made it trigger day 1 to further push this, i apologized several times because this stupid gambit drew apathy and was one of the primary factors of a lynch not ocurring D1 due to all the frozen votes, but it is what it is, I thought if coming into D2, scum would shoot me thinking my role was NU, it would clear NSG and NSG would know what my plan was to keep bee from auto hammering.
The initial plan was more of wanting to see if scum would pile votes on me in hopes of freezing the votes, later on I realized how stupid that was because scum wouldnt be that obvious, and that my gambit ended up hurting town more for no actual gain, and hence my whole feeling bad and apologizing the entire Day 1 for what happened.

[Sakura Hana]

So yeah at the end of Day 1, my whole "plan" simply was for bee to pick who he wanted to be voting and freeze it before anyone else voted so there was no auto hammer danger.

Anyways, sorry again.

[Sakura Hana]

tl;dr: My gambit with my role hurt town way more than i initially predicted, and im bad and i should feel bad.

[Sakura Hana]

I made it trigger day 1 to further push this

why?

I thought if coming into D2, scum would shoot me thinking my role was NU

?

it would clear NSG

?

1) Basically as soon as bee voted me, and me freaking out over it after i had warned ppl to not vote me, if the votes froze it would make it look reactive and make the gambit look more real.
2 and 3) If scum wanted to give an NU role to a town backup, considering as bee said i was being very townread, i'd be the prime target, you would obviously receive the legit version of the actual role and figure out what I was trying to do, this is also why I kept telling bee to not worry about it because I knew any negative effect of his role I could counter with mine.

[Sakura Hana]

But obviously PP getting shot threw that 2nd part out of the window.

[Sakura Hana]

I hope no one was townreading me exclusively for my role, if you have, then i rather have a proper townread than something based off a gambit.

[Sakura Hana]

I hope no one was townreading me exclusively for my role, if you have, then i rather have a proper townread than something based off a gambit.

LOOOOOOOOOOL

What is that supposed to mean...

[Sakura Hana]

1) Basically as soon as bee voted me, and me freaking out over it after i had warned ppl to not vote me, if the votes froze it would make it look reactive and make the gambit look more real.
2 and 3) If scum wanted to give an NU role to a town backup, considering as bee said i was being very townread, i'd be the prime target, you would obviously receive the legit version of the actual role and figure out what I was trying to do, this is also why I kept telling bee to not worry about it because I knew any negative effect of his role I could counter with mine.

1) right, but what did you accomplish by convincing everyone that it was real? what did you hope to accomplish? i'm really not sure why you felt the need to convince everyone that it was real.
2/3) how does this factor into anything? obviously you couldn't have had this plan at the start of the day, so why bring it up?

I already explained that in my initial post where i came clean.

The initial plan was more of wanting to see if scum would pile votes on me in hopes of freezing the votes, later on I realized how stupid that was because scum wouldnt be that obvious, and that my gambit ended up hurting town more for no actual gain

sakura why did you decide that now was the best time to come clean

Because i was feeling bad about it.

[Sakura Hana]

you're lucky that you're basically mod confirmed town because that is one of the most pointless pro-scum gambits that I have ever seen

wait what? since when im mod confirmed town.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah okay, coz i was gonna eyebrow rise on why maruchan would've scanned me.

[Sakura Hana]

Also I know bee's no longer here, but I also wanted to apologize to HIM because he kept thinking it was his fault that the D1 happened the way it happened.

So bee if you're reading this, im really sorry.

[Sakura Hana]

Ali is never scum in this game.

[Sakura Hana]

Think about it, Ali's vote was stolen, no one has come forward to claim that action, which means it was a scum motivated action, why would scum do that to some of their own, when having less voting power than town would hurt them pretty bad? I think that fact alone points towards Ali being town.

[Sakura Hana]

i don't think your reasoning is very good

I dont think so either, it was a stupid gambit, and i've been feeling bad ever since I realized how stupid it was of me to think that scum would pile on me to trigger my ability (specially with how TR i was), that'd be like literally saying "HEY LOOK WE'RE THE SCUM TEAM"

P-Edit: Ali already proved the vote theft was true

[Sakura Hana]

There's no denying the vote theft happening, the only possible way ali is scum is via what RC just mentioned.

[Sakura Hana]

Were you guys blind or not paying attention.
Alisae voted SS (or was it ASP?) a while ago this DP and eir vote already didnt appear in the vote count, it's a proven fact, as i doubt Ali would have a similar role to PP, which is already proven to have gone to NSG.

[Sakura Hana]

Tbh, at this point im willing to bet the game on Ali being town, and i cant ever read RC, but he hasn't gone in condescending "insult everyone for being useless" mode so...

[Sakura Hana]

Maybe it's just as easy as ASP/NM?

[Sakura Hana]

Well i could arrange a voteless ali D3 with my vote freeze

Just kidding

[Sakura Hana]

Well i could arrange a voteless ali D3 with my vote freeze

Just kidding

I swear to god if you do this I will kill you so hard you will die to death postgame

Ali rn:

[Sakura Hana]

<3

[Sakura Hana]

But no im actually.... a VoteInFreezer

[Sakura Hana]

i would replace into a slot that i thought was scum and was in a bad spot, and i know other players that do the same thing. it's a challenging position to be in and it's good practice for getting yourself townread.

Reminds me of a time i replaced into a scum slot where the pred had claimed scum and was getting lynched, and i managed not only to escape the lynch but proceed to a perfect scum win.

Since then most ppl are scared of me.

[Sakura Hana]

I just had a food for thought.
Out of everyone to get their votes stolen why Ali (and if ASP did it, why would he target someone that was against them being lynched D1).
And isnt it quite coincidential that Ali's inspect necessitates Ali's own vote, and they got it stolen?

Don't mind me just thinking...

[Sakura Hana]

If we assume ASP is the scum vote thief why wouldnt they steal Sobolev's vote who was openly for their lynch D1

[Sakura Hana]

Possible, it's also possible that you're just faking your PR, i mean you're claimed now, why would scum not continue to steal your vote, and I still dont understand why you claimed.

[Sakura Hana]

It's not that I want to suspect you or anything, but I dont want to be bitten in the ass later for thinking of possibilities and forgetting to put them in the open.

I still think you're town, but not as "cleared" from scum's action if existant as I thought before.

[Sakura Hana]

Also possible, although that would necessisate for scum to not be ASP. As I said I dont see a world where scum ASP steals Ali's vote when Ali obviously didnt want to lynch there.

[Sakura Hana]

Tinfoil, the scumteam is Ali and NSG

[Sakura Hana]

Why are we assuming that ASP stole my vote again?
Why are we assuming that my vote was even stolen in the first place and not just gone for the day.

That was what NSG brought up, I was just wondering why would ASP do it.
Even in your scenario, if it's a factional ability, this works if ASP is scum.

[Sakura Hana]

Why are we assuming that my vote was even stolen in the first place and not just gone for the day.

Uhhh....
Being gone for the day would mean it's related to your own PR and you arent disclosing this information.

FTR im treating "stolen" as taking it away, not necessarily taking it for themselves

[Sakura Hana]

From your PoV:
-> Taking away your vote / stealing it is a scum ability because no one claimed it (I agree)
-> ASP is scum.

So why arent we assuming ASP stole your vote?
I just decided to tackle this angle instead, because the previous angle was an NSG theory which takes me to the next tinfoil:

NSG read that ASP would have a vote day 2 and decided with her partner to take away yours to frame ASP.

Sorry just that thinking of all possibilities makes me end up becoming a conspirancy theorist, but just something doesnt seem right, if ASP is scum why isnt he fighting? why is the game going so smoothly?, you'd think caught scum would be trying to steer us away and playing to their win con instead of raise their hands and give up.

[Sakura Hana]

I hope im wrong and this is just that easy.
I just have a hard time seeing it.

I want to talk to Gork too coz he also mentioned:

nsg being frustrated at not being engaged isnt exactly hard scumplay to fake. curious why people are more comfortable there now?

And since I read that i realized i dont have that much strong reasons to townread NSG, and she was the one who suggested that ASP scum stole Ali's vote to get a vote D2.

[Sakura Hana]

Maybe i was just overthinking things...

[Sakura Hana]

But i dunno, this AtE and Fatalism that Alisae is scumreading im having trouble parsing as either, but no one (other than ali) took into consideration my theories so maybe im just wrong and ASP is just scum.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm still confused if ASP is scum, why isnt his partner doing anything, why is he just giving up and saying "my flip will speak for itself".
Do we really have caught scum?

I guess it's possible that his partner decided to sacrifice him, but we already didnt lynch D1 scum is ahead.

[Sakura Hana]

Ugh, I wish more people would talk to me outta it and tell me "NO LOOK ASP IS BEING OBVSCUM, YOU'RE JUST GETTING PARANOID"

[Sakura Hana]

What is this about confirming lylo, when both NSG and Ali have confirmed their respective stuff? (NSG being able to secretly move their vote and Ali being voteless)

[Sakura Hana]

While you guys keep fluffing im gonna take a break from posting because i've already left all my theories tinfoil or not in the thread which is what i wanted just in case.
Will still read, but at this point, i dont think much can change my mind.

[Sakura Hana]

Im guessing that's a signal to me to do my thing.

[Sakura Hana]

[kind of wish sakura hadnt frozen asp's vote as well just in case we need it for a counterwagon but not much to be done about that now i guess]

He said he was ok being stuck on NM, and we all knew i was going to freeze votes once you decided which is why i kept telling people to not vote until then.

[Sakura Hana]

i guess i have tomorrow to lynch the shit out of n_m after you die
c:

hopefully scum is s_s/rc so we can both get to feel stupid.

VOTE: Not Mafia

[Sakura Hana]

We're doing it today.

[Sakura Hana]

Apparently someone has stolen my vote.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah the mod just told me so that someone stole my vote.

[Sakura Hana]

Dunno if he forgot to tell me that at day start or it was a day action that just did it.

[Sakura Hana]

Someone obviously wants ASP very dead and NM not dead.
And apparently now im voteless until whoever stole my vote is dead.

Oh well, cya guys in forever.

[Sakura Hana]

Someone obviously wants ASP very dead and NM not dead.
And apparently now im voteless until whoever stole my vote is dead.

Oh well, cya guys in forever.

LOL NOW YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL

I've known how you feel since years ago.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45635

[Sakura Hana]

I mean at least your vote is only gone for the day, mine is gone forever, unless whoever stole it dies.

[Sakura Hana]

But do you know how I feel about you?

Do I care? prolly not.

[Sakura Hana]

I mean at least your vote is only gone for the day, mine is gone forever, unless whoever stole it dies.

is that what the mod told you?

Yes, paraphrased.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh well i was already getting bored of this game, this just finished shutting down my motivation.

[Sakura Hana]

Btw on the game I linked I was pretty much voteless as part of my role, with a couple 1-shot abilities that would change it for that day phase, I've ranted several times of how I hated it. and I guess I should've known better than to join this game. But oh well, it is what it is.

[Sakura Hana]

also wanted to check this because i didn't see gork vote no lynch, do you have a hidden vote or know why your vote was there gork?

Gork replaced bee, it was bee's vote. Pay attention to the game pls, im supposed to be the one without motivation here.

[Sakura Hana]

im glad that scum probably wins no matter what because nobody can actually vote properly.

[Sakura Hana]

this was probably a bad game to join tbh.

[Sakura Hana]

Not to mention that i highly doubt a town player would steal my vote (why not steal a scumread's vote), so far no one here has said they scumread me so, if scum can disable someone's vote and steal someone's else's vote, then we're literally fucked worse than mountainous, and im just gonna stop caring.

[Sakura Hana]

If anything that makes Ali and by default Gork conf town, because otherwise town has literally no investigative power, and even then sensor's a pretty shitty investigative power that only happened to get an inno due to circumstance, and to boot scum can just get it rekt by removing ali's vote, so, in other words, we're fucked.

[Sakura Hana]

But anyway i should probably save my complaints for post-game.

[Sakura Hana]

I mean, if ali's role is a fake claim then we literally have no investigative power or whichever investigative power we have has decided to stay silent this long.
So im just going to auto assume ali's town because otherwise everything's stacked against us and you have 3 conf towns fmPoV, we can PoE sure, but what can we do? Scum has 1 extra vote, and town has 2 votes less on 5 to lynch with 8 players. Unless it's literally 1 scum player we arent lynching scum today.

[Sakura Hana]

This is true even without my vote freeze for the record, both me and ali are voteless today, scum controls 3 votes, if there's 2 scum then there's 6-2 = 4 town votes, 5 to lynch, not rocket science, just plain math.

[Sakura Hana]

OKay I'm the vote thief

ok have fun with your free win then

PSA: im probably prod dodging for the rest of the game since the mod wont let me extend my V/LA to infinity, and i dont want to rep out and have someone come in into an unwinnable situation for town.

[Sakura Hana]

Okay, so NM just stole an obvtown player's vote. May I reiterate that this is a great wagon to be on?

So?, what can we do about it.
He's never getting lynched if he's scum and you're town.
Did you miss my math post?

[Sakura Hana]

I'm more stressed about what power town has to help find scum aside of Ali's Sensor, than about being voteless.

[Sakura Hana]

this is actually stupid. we cant fucking lynch people in this setup. why would you create a setup that nullifies votes if you dont compensate by lowering the threshold that it takes it lynch people? that makes no fucking sense at all to me.

This.

[Sakura Hana]

Also im going to make a promise here that this is the last time i join a setup with vote oriented roles/mechanics.
It was stupid of me to join just coz I wanted to play with some people considering how much I hated my role in Touhou Upick 2, but that's my own fault.

Might as well just have gone 5 town 4 scum and start LyLo from day 1 at this rate.

[Sakura Hana]

Like I feel we have a higher chance of winning a 7 v 2 mountainous than this.

[Sakura Hana]

If anything i give it to GIF, it takes lots of EFFORT to make something more scum sided than mountainous.

[Sakura Hana]

and the rest of us get to use our votes the way we want to in some kind of meaningful capacity with a full day and an actual lynch/lynchwagon to parse.

yeah must be nice not having your vote permanently gone for as long as NM lives huh

[Sakura Hana]

I've been told that my ability ceases to apply in LyLo but it wasn't in my role PM

it was in no one's role PM, it was in a PM we had to send in for confirmation.

[Sakura Hana]

tbf i dont know if other people's role PMs were like that, i only know mine didnt have the LyLo exclusion and considering how part of the confirmation sent to every player was to confirm that our roles didnt work on LyLo i'd assume it's something that didnt exist in everyone else's role PMs either.

[Sakura Hana]

knowing GIF it's entirely possible he forgot to tell RC, and RC's whole reaction in this has felt genuine, by the logic of RC being scum wouldn't a supposed RC scumpartner have told HIM that his role didnt work in LyLo?

[Sakura Hana]

Or if you're trying to push the logic that scum's abilities work in LyLo and that's how RC scumslipped.
How does that make ANY sort of sense, let's bone town even more in LyLo with how they are already boned with their roles? lol.

[Sakura Hana]

I dont see how you even get to this:

check your role pm again rc - i think you're either lying or what you said was a scumclaim.

[Sakura Hana]

Tabling the angleshooting NSG's hesitancy about the scumslip is extremely uncharacteristic of her towngame. She's usually very aggressive and if she were town who thought I slipped she would have pushed me hard and let me prove myself town by my reaction rather than timidly giving me a way out of the slip. She's been very tunnely in her games on site in general and I don't think I've ever seen anything like that bit around the 'hmm' from her before.

It feels a lot more like scum trying to make a show of 'hey look how much I'm thinking about this' rather than legitimately thinking about it.

It feels like scum even without that.
that logic doesnt have any trajectory nor does that read.

Well regardless she's unlynchable today without scum bussing.

[Sakura Hana]

what? i don't understand what your problem is with that - that's a perfectly valid question to ask. rc claimed a trait of his role that i know doesn't apply to me (town), and that other people who i believe are town have also said wouldn't apply to them.

v

Or if you're trying to push the logic that scum's abilities work in LyLo and that's how RC scumslipped.
How does that make ANY sort of sense, let's bone town even more in LyLo with how they are already boned with their roles? lol.

Also the post i quoted you literally accused him of lying or scumclaiming.
The former means he's town lying knowing his role doesnt work on LyLo, which if anything could've been considered a gambit and why would town question that?
The later means you think he's scum simply by virtue of his role working on LyLo.

Neither of these point to a misconception but a blatant accusation.

[Sakura Hana]

Ok so tell me how game balance works in a game where you think that a town role PM doesnt work in LyLo, but a scum one does.
P-Edit: @North

[Sakura Hana]

I think i know what role RC is claiming to be.

[Sakura Hana]

If it's the role i think it is, then yes we can achieve a lynch today on anyone.

[Sakura Hana]

Deadline: 2 days, 4 hours, 39 minutes

I didnt want to do this, but since everyone's going "we cant lynch anything else" im just going to be blunt on my question to RC.
@RC: Are you an executioner?

[Sakura Hana]

I guess you guys are happy letting the clock run out again huh.
Well it's not like I have about to do anything about it other than posting this.
My motivation to do anything in this game is already shot down by the sheer ammount of unbalance.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh so you're a cumulative voter?

[Sakura Hana]

I thought Executioner coz Executioner can get a lynch through with half the lynch treshold

[Sakura Hana]

RC is scum.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm not casting a vote anytime soon.
If you guys have trusted me with your townreads i'm not gonna cast a MyLo vote this early.

[Sakura Hana]

I'll get into this later tho, i need to do stuff IRL

[Sakura Hana]

Also first of all im going to tune out any AtE/Insults coming from you RC, I know you did that as scum with a guilty on you before, and the first instance I see of it i'll stick my vote in your face.

Ok now with that out of the way, I had a theory that RC decided to use his vote on NSG knowing today would be MyLo and wouldnt have the extra votes anyway, what's giving me pause is that his reaction to not knowing his role worked in LyLo sounded genuine.

[Sakura Hana]

nm and asp can't both be my scumbuddies

What did you mean by this?

ss if you're voting me just do it now because I'm flipping town and I just want the game over.

Assume you're not getting lynched today, pretend you're an innocent child, who's scum and why?

Also Note to self to go back and re-read D2 and possbly see if i can cross reference PP and Gork's reads.

[Sakura Hana]

Scum can miss the fact that their role won't work in LYLO, why does that give you pause?

As I said at first, i thought he used it coz he knew that would lead to a MyLo today anyway.
If he (as either alignment) genuinely missed it, then that throws that theory out of the window.

[Sakura Hana]

Ok so NKA was a fail.
PP expressed strong suspicion on ASP, so did Gork, and... pretty much almost everyone has (except maru)

[Sakura Hana]

Ok, this isnt as easy as i thought.