Micro 753: Votefuckery (Game Over)

[Sobolev Space]

hey everyone I'm here and have skimmed the thread but am ridiculously busy tonight so real content coming tomorrow.

I'm assuming locked votes means that people who haven't voted yet still can do so, they just can't change their vote when they do. is this correct?

[Sobolev Space]

I'm assuming locked votes means that people who haven't voted yet still can do so, they just can't change their vote when they do. is this correct?

My vote along with Beeboy's and Sheeps are basicly frozen in place.

oh rip. my role becomes a little more NU with this but it probably won't come up for a bit so i'm going to keep from claiming for now

[Sobolev Space]

wait I'm here please don't lynch anyone for at least an hour when i'm all caught up

[Sobolev Space]

okay so i'm fully caught up holy shit. i don't have any hard town reads at this point which is a little worrying. i agree with 456 that sheep's claim looks pretty bad. overall my reads are like:
{alisae, sakura}
{beeboy, PP}
{n_m, asp}
{sheep, maru}

since my read on maru seems to be the furthest from consensus i'll offer some explanation:

the first thing that i think is weird is his turnaround on sheep from 419 to 442 where he declares intent to hammer. he notes that sheep seems to be "actively lurking" in 419 but appears to not think this merits a scumread. i would buy that his mind changed in 442 based on alisae's case in 423 but in 446 he seems to think the main reason to lynch sheep is his "lack of effort" which imo falls in the same category as "actively lurking".

next, during the sakura/beeboy shitshow his attempts to diffuse the argument don't really come off as genuine. this is more of a gut read but like comparing 276 285 to alisae's attempts to diffuse the argument shows a huge difference. sheep is also guilty of this which is one of the reasons i sr him .

unfortunately, if asp really is voteless its probably impossible to lynch maru today unless he self votes and i'm also happy with lynching sheep today too so...

[Sobolev Space]

Yay please don't replace out you seem fun to play with.

I had thought the opposite actually.

I guess this is all bee misreading something again........ as expected.

UNVOTE:

wait also sakura can you explain your reasons for this unvote? do you think bee misreading things explains away all of the reasons you scumread them?

[Sobolev Space]

okay i buy it

asp, when you have time can you explain your reasons for scumreading n_m earlier? i have no experience with him and based on his posting so far i have no idea how to start sorting him so...

[Sobolev Space]

VOTE: sheep

[Sobolev Space]

yea nice try

[Sobolev Space]

okey dokey

[Sobolev Space]

no i just can't hammer

[Sobolev Space]

A sheep Lynch yields almost no information but thats a stupid reason to not Lynch someone I guess.

this post assumes im town
which is true but in a way it could be a slip

wait how do you think this assumes you flip town?

[Sobolev Space]

or nevermind

[Sobolev Space]

lets wait for a replacement first

[Sobolev Space]

lets wait for a replacement first

Ok. Put your vote in fourth position, and I will wait until we get a replacement before declaring intent to hammer and giving 24 hours.

why?

[Sobolev Space]

okay i guess but i hope theres an explanation for this soon
VOTE: sheep

[Sobolev Space]

pp can you double vote? this would greatly increase my desire to push a maru wagon today

[Sobolev Space]

before i thought it was kinda a lost cause because with 3 votes locked and asp voteless it'd be impossible to lynch him without a self vote

[Sobolev Space]

I feel like Maru is the type of player where later on in the game is you do a complete reset you can tell he's pushing an agenda because he won't try to hide it.

what exactly do you mean by this post?

[Sobolev Space]

pp can you double vote? this would greatly increase my desire to push a maru wagon today

No. I apparently misunderstood the way my role pm was written. I only have one vote.

so we basically have to lynch in {sheep, sakura, beeboy, alisae, asp} today which is a bummer because i tr at least 3 of those

[Sobolev Space]

lol its not ur fault

[Sobolev Space]

I feel like Maru is the type of player where later on in the game is you do a complete reset you can tell he's pushing an agenda because he won't try to hide it.

what exactly do you mean by this post?

Exactly what it says?
Some people are just easier to catch later in the game.

just clarifying what you think the proper course of action wrt maru is

[Sobolev Space]

also pp based on 525 and 551 do you think alisae forgetting the vote lock is ai?

[Sobolev Space]

why do you think scum would be more predisposed towards forgetting mechanics? or do you think it was faked?

[Sobolev Space]

what scum motive is there behind faking that?

[Sobolev Space]

scum!alisae faking that e forgot the vote lock

[Sobolev Space]

sorry everyone i had a busy weekend. content coming tonight. still trying to sort maru because his reasoning for the sheep read/intent to hammer seems plausible but i still have a gut scumread there. will iso later to see if its justified

[Sobolev Space]

so it makes no sense for a scum sobolev to post 475, confirming my slot as town

lol

[Sobolev Space]

ur not confirmed town

[Sobolev Space]

also north wouldn't you inherit the role of today's lynch as opposed to the NK?

[Sobolev Space]

or are u trying to NK me tonight and get an easy mislynch by "confirming" that you're now a priest

[Sobolev Space]

lets lynch nsg

[Sobolev Space]

whats ur read on maru

[Sobolev Space]

pp can you double vote? this would greatly increase my desire to push a maru wagon today

So you want to push a maru wagon after asking me a direct question and me not yet responding to it? Srs? Like that isnt scummy.

"Hey look guys i dont like how he did this! Why did you intent to hammer withoit changing reasons onread?" "Oh yeah your right that was kinda off..." "Hey look giys while you agree with me lets lynch him!"

maru why did u say this but not include me in your readlist in 667?

[Sobolev Space]

the argument that ur cleared by the fake hammer is bad tho. in a game called votefuckery its reasonable for scum to expect that any hammer could be fake and react accordingly.

[Sobolev Space]

if sheep acted super scummy in response to the hammer that would've confirmed him as scum

his failure to do so doesn't make him town, just not incompetent scum

[Sobolev Space]

like do u really believe that he thought the hammer was serious? don't u think town!sheep would at least try to offer some final reads or something instead of saying "oh lol i'm town actually"

[Sobolev Space]

do u think his posting has been scummy? i haven't really tried to sort him

[Sobolev Space]

i wanted more from him on nm but didn’t really have a problem with his reads in his last post

[Sobolev Space]

pp are you voting asp now?

[Sobolev Space]

fair enough

VOTE: ASP

[Sobolev Space]

so basically today we can lynch sakura, nsg, alisae, beeboy, or asp and we're gonna need a large consensus to lynch any of them as it is. i'd prefer to lynch nsg or asp and am not lynching sakura. i could get on board with alisae or beeboy if someone gave a convincing case but this seems improbable now. everyone who has an active vote please state your opinions on members of this group so we can get something done today.

sorry for my shitty activity today. the game kinda died with 4 people effectively voteless. hopefully tomorrow there will be more activity.

[Sobolev Space]

case them and i'll look it over

[Sobolev Space]

dw asp i'll obvtown it up tomorrow

[Sobolev Space]

in terms of associatives i think asp lynch > nsg but still fine with either

[Sobolev Space]

1. i think there's a lot to be seen from how quickly the initial asp wagon went up and then declined. if scum is one of the 5 voters they'd be disincentivized to bus asp because we need everyone with a vote to lynch him.
2. asps early posts when he wasn't under pressure will also be able to give us decent associatives. nsg/sheep slot only started giving content when they were at high risk of getting lynched.

[Sobolev Space]

sakura could you get one board with an asp lynch today?

[Sobolev Space]

ppl are apathetic because a ton of ppl can't vote and those who can vote don't have to worry about getting lynched

get on the asp wagon

[Sobolev Space]

i'm powerlynching the next person who says "oh we should just lynch me today" seriously

[Sobolev Space]

unless n_m selfvotes isn't it impossible to lynch him today?

[Sobolev Space]

ack

[Sobolev Space]

i would even take alisae over beeboy tbh

[Sobolev Space]

reevaluated a little. i think the reasons i was tr-ing alisae weren't as convincing as i thought and eir recent content has been unimpressive

[Sobolev Space]

calling out the asp wagon as "lazy" as well as changing eir mind on north without trying to find a feasible scum lynch for today. like even out of the inactives most of them are still content with you or north for a lynch but ali doesn't seem like e wants either but isn't trying to find an alternative.

p-edit lol its fine lots of ppl make that mistake

[Sobolev Space]

VOTE: north

[Sobolev Space]

good content

[Sobolev Space]

who are the lazy votes on you, north?

[Sobolev Space]

ASP is a lazy wagon
North is a lazy wagon
The only other 3 options are myself, bee and you.
I doubt you want to lynch yourself.
So the other options are myself or bee.
Last i heard you townread me and had a bunch of nulls.
So are you saying that bee is scum? otherwise i dont see this day going the way you want it.

is asp really that lazy of a wagon? i mean, i want you to notice something - has asp ever once seemed concerned about being lynched? looking through his iso i don't see a single instance of concern that he might die. why is that? i wonder if it could be an asp/maru scumteam, with asp confident that maru wouldn't hammer him.

townpoints to north for this. asp/maru was one of my first thoughts when the asp wagon looked destined to go through until maru came out with the asp tr

[Sobolev Space]

who wants to lynch alisae

[Sobolev Space]

VOTE: asp

you're town beeboy

[Sobolev Space]

i won't be checking this game again until after deadline. my vote is final. people who still have votes can decide to:
a) no lynch. don't do this.
b) lynch sakura. don't do this.
c) lynch north. don't do this.
d) lynch asp. do this.

good night everyone.

[Sobolev Space]

sorry everyone i'm around just had a busy weekend. responding to alisae's case and giving reads soon.

[Sobolev Space]

wait we can also pretty easily check that north now has penguin's role right?

[Sobolev Space]

ftr i'm much more ambivalent about lynching asp today. yesterday our two main constraints were:
1. there was only a subset of people who could actually be lynched
2. only a subset of people had movable votes which means we needed much more consensus than usual.
i was pushing asp because i thought he hadn't really done anything really impressive so far, his reads seemed to just align with consensus, and penguin, one of my trs was also pushing him. i also wanted north for a while but posts like 953 made me reconsider that read. finally, given the state of wagons by that point in the day i felt the asp lynch could give us the most information like i mentioned in 874.

given how neutered our lynch power was yesterday i felt like town's first priority should be building consensus even if it means voting somebody you don't have the strongest scumread on. this is why it was super frustrating to see people just stick to their guns without actually attempting to engage with other people who had votes. on this point i'm also gonna give town points to maru for 985.

alisae my problem with u wasn't just that u didn't buy into the asp lynch, but that you were throwing shade at the asp and north wagons without actually trying to find a positive way to use town's lynch power yesterday.

[Sobolev Space]

Sakura btw
Beeboy is like
confirmed town.

wait alisae can you explain this one too?

[Sobolev Space]

Like
coming to think of that reasoning to push a read is extremely bullshit considering most of the game
everyone had a read that was consensus or easy.
It took me a bit to realize it
but its fucking true imo.




Also shadethrowing is one of the most overused buzzwords that has exactly 0 meaning.

i mean but there were people who did work like actually try to start wagons and stuff even if consensus formed later, like pp or the whole beeboy/sakura thing

okay hows this rephrasing "my problem was that you called them both bad lynches without trying to find a productive way to use town's lynch power"? what would you have considered a better lynch yesterday than either of them?

like alisae if i read u as charitably as possible i think our fundamental difference is that u didn't have a vote yesterday so played pretty traditionally while i did so my main focus was finding the best lynch given the absurd constraints we had on us.

that said i'm starting to think that ur actually just scum

[Sobolev Space]

what would you have considered a better lynch yesterday than either of them?

Not those two?
If there wasn't litterally nothing for ASP then maybe I wouldn't be so adamant about ASP, but there was litterally nothing.

I haven't actually done the work at the time to figure out a better alternative.
have I done so I would have suggested one.

right like this is my point. the lynch is towns only tool to kill scum and even when its power has been destroyed every townie should still be trying as hard as they can to use it well.
nothing you posted yesterday showed that you cared about making the best of the situation we were in with respect to the lynch. talking about these lynches as bad without caring about finding a better one, or realizing that they might be the best we could have done doesn't show to me somebody with town motivation.

If you think I'm scum your best bet is to look for my buddy and try to lynch them, because I WILL being dieing tonight because I have ~information~, and leaving me alive is dangerous.

lol k

[Sobolev Space]

lol i was planning on it don't worry bud

also i was saying every townie

should

not every townie was. obviously town sometimes doesn't play optimally but u can't use this to discredit any kind of motive hunting ever

[Sobolev Space]

are we doing fos or pseudo-votes?

pseudo-vote

: alisae

honestly also could get on board with n-m but alisae has been ridiculous through this whole interaction

[Sobolev Space]

lol is your whole argument premised on maru being scum? because i don't buy that.

if you're really confident with me/maru as scumteam would you also be on board with a maru lynch today?

[Sobolev Space]

lol okay.

you've made it clear we're not gonna get any further in this discussion so i'll wait for other people to come in and offer some opinions. hopefully they'll realize how garbage ur push on me is but if not whatevs good luck town.

the last thing i'll say is: you keep accusing me of trying to strongarm the asp lynch yesterday. yes, i was trying to push the asp lynch pretty clearly yesterday because the odds were overwhelmingly in favor of town no lynching which is almost always worse for town.

i also have some thoughts on who ur partner is likely to be but i'd prefer to have other people post first before making these public.

[Sobolev Space]

noice. u at least got that one right alisae

[Sobolev Space]

right, all i'm saying is that my primary motivation yesterday was finding and achieving the best lynch we could given the situation we were in and it doesn't at all look like alisae had the same goal. nothing u will find in my or alisae's isos contradicts this.

[Sobolev Space]

like sakura i think ur pointing out the same things i was trying to get at so can you tell me at all if u can see ali's responses coming from someone with town motivation

[Sobolev Space]

well considering the lynch didn't even go through if anything i should've strongarmed it harder

[Sobolev Space]

like imo towns motive yesterday should've been first trying to find a good lynch so the fact that alisae has been so resistant on this point indicates a scum mindset

[Sobolev Space]

lol but my read wasn't very nuanced, it was just the best i had to go on once i started light tr-ing north

[Sobolev Space]

like iso me from yesterday and you'll never find me expressing a super strong scumread on asp. i had a light/moderate scumread but it wouldn't have been enough to merit a lynch in a normal game.

[Sobolev Space]

i literally said multiple times yesterday that those were our only possible lynches...
alisae missing this is either willful ignorance or atrocious reading
like e comes out with this read on me after supposedly isoing me but missed this in my iso? what?

[Sobolev Space]

right alisae i was even willing to give u some leeway at the beginning of today because i can understand being apathetic in that situation but then u came out with this terrible read on me which just confirmed u as scum

[Sobolev Space]

Like if you notice how long it took me to explain that fact to Alisae today, why are you surprised e missed it yesterday.

its more plausible to me that alisae understood this but feigned not doing so than that e missed it after it being multiple times in my iso and my entire defense today being based around the constraints on towns lynch power

[Sobolev Space]

Like if you notice how long it took me to explain that fact to Alisae today, why are you surprised e missed it yesterday.

its more plausible to me that alisae understood this but feigned not doing so than that e missed it after it being multiple times in my iso and my entire defense today being based around the constraints on towns lynch power

Are you even reading my posts?

yea i've read them and i find my explanation more believable

[Sobolev Space]

i mean why should i budge? the argument in favor is that alisae really didn't understand that we had limited lynch options yesterday.

but my entire case today has been "our lynch power was hugely constrained yesterday which explains how i was acting" and i fail to see how alisae reads several pages of me saying this without asking "hmm what constraints on our lynch power is she talking about?" unless e just wanted me to be scum.

[Sobolev Space]

i can even understand alisae missing this in my iso from yesterday but it takes willful disengagement to not understand it through several pages of interaction with me when this is what my entire defense rested on.

[Sobolev Space]

i mean why should i budge? the argument in favor is that alisae really didn't understand that we had limited lynch options yesterday.

but my entire case today has been "our lynch power was hugely constrained yesterday which explains how i was acting" and i fail to see how alisae reads several pages of me saying this without asking "hmm what constraints on our lynch power is she talking about?" unless e just wanted me to be scum.

i can even understand alisae missing this in my iso from yesterday but it takes willful disengagement to not understand it through several pages of interaction with me when this is what my entire defense rested on.

and you think that this comes from alisae being scum? do you think that alisae, as scum, thought it was possible to push through a lynch on you on a misrepped point? it doesn't seem likely to me.

this is actually a decent point.

i'll be rethinking my read on alisae overnight but i've gotta log off to do work anyhow

[Sobolev Space]

welcome gorkington.

okay so i reread alisae and my argument and have done a little bit of reevaluation but i have one final thing that needs clarification before i'm done with this:
alisae what did you mean with the following two posts yesterday, if you weren't aware of the limited d1 lynch options at the time you made them?

every townie should still be trying as hard as they can to use it well.

Now now you're assuming town plays optimally all of the time.

Spoiler: Spoiler Alert

they don't

If every towny was playing optimally then that gamestate wouldn't have been a problem to begin with.

my post that you were quoting for context:

right like this is my point. the lynch is towns only tool to kill scum and even when its power has been destroyed every townie should still be trying as hard as they can to use it well.
nothing you posted yesterday showed that you cared about making the best of the situation we were in with respect to the lynch. talking about these lynches as bad without caring about finding a better one, or realizing that they might be the best we could have done doesn't show to me somebody with town motivation.

because the way i read those posts was:
1101: "attacking me for not playing to our lynch constraints is silly because not everyone plays optimally all the time" (indicating awareness of the limited lynch options)
1102: "if we were all playing perfectly the lynch constraints wouldn't have mattered at all" (not sure why, but still indicates awareness of the limited lynch options)

but if you really only became aware of the limited lynch options after talking to sakura then i'm probably misreading these so lmk how i should have interpreted them.

[Sobolev Space]

probably reading maru after i'm done with this.

also sakura why do you have alisae at the top of your town list? like even if you didn't buy the arguments i had for scum!alisae has e done anything super towny?

[Sobolev Space]

thats fair. i mean i'm treating gork as town anyway because is alisae is town then he's cleared and if not i'd be very impressed if scum!alisae faked a clear on eir scumpartner and also that both scum votes were locked on the same wagon all d1

[Sobolev Space]

roast?

[Sobolev Space]

hmmm...
time to do some rereading. i'll report back tomorrow.

[Sobolev Space]

lol asp is probably scum actually

[Sobolev Space]

Just feel like one of the main reasons we didn't have any lynch D1 was Alisae, coupled with the suvrivalism > town of NSG.

like i don't think town in asp's slot makes this argument

[Sobolev Space]

p-edit of course i still need to do my reread of maru too

[Sobolev Space]

honestly asp/nm looks really likely but that just seems too obvious. i can't see asp/maru because of maru's asp l-1 near deadline

[Sobolev Space]

yea i mean i have little to read nm based on this far in the game so my main reason for believing they're a plausible scumteam is asp's actions and nm not hammering asp at deadline yesterday. all this is dependent on an asp scumflip of course.

[Sobolev Space]

aight i'll iso maru tomorrow and look over your read on him but now ive gotta go to bed

[Sobolev Space]

asp that doesn’t really respond to north’s point....

p-edit nice

[Sobolev Space]

okay i reread maru and would be fine with a lynch there today. one thing to point out:

671 feels extremely defensive towards a meme imo

there are a couple other places where he's like this:

Spoiler:

Can we cut the avatar discussion. Its distracting and NAI and not remotely related to this game and we can start a GD thread about cuute avatars if you guys want but I could care less about avatars and it setracts from the game. I've had this one since 2011 when i joined the site

Whoever is town please reply to this post stating you are town.

Except that the only people who will probably do this are mafia trying to townypoints

Whoever is town please reply to this post stating you are town.

Im town

Facedesk

which doesn't seem genuine considering he does a lot of memey stuff as well like in 714 and 133.

other than that nothing maru did struck me as super scummy but i can see where alisae's wallpost analysis is coming from.

so yea lets lynch asp or maru.

[Sobolev Space]

forgot to add this for the above post

#27 wait is scum a real person? If so can we please use their full name and/or give them a nickname? Using scum as both a proper noun for this player and as a name for the bad guys will otherwise get confusing as fuck.

[Sobolev Space]

hype

[Sobolev Space]

Do you think SS has a naturally formed read on my slot?

yes

[Sobolev Space]

lol what is asps role is he's voteless day 1 and gets to steal someone's vote to use for other days

that would be sick

[Sobolev Space]

rc can you also explain the alisae tr? i've begrudgingly accepted our fight was due to a misconception so thats nai and am inclined to townread em but can't put a finger on why

[Sobolev Space]

i mean if he were town yea...

[Sobolev Space]

p-edit nice

[Sobolev Space]

um

[Sobolev Space]

sakura why did you decide that now was the best time to come clean

[Sobolev Space]

hmmm...

[Sobolev Space]

yea i think i have to do some reevaluation before i can contribute too much here. honestly, aside from gork, alisae might be my strongest tr right now.

the good thing is that even though i'm various degrees of ambivalent about everyone else i think there are enough associatives now to knock out most major teams

[Sobolev Space]

Think about it, Ali's vote was stolen, no one has come forward to claim that action, which means it was a scum motivated action, why would scum do that to some of their own, when having less voting power than town would hurt them pretty bad? I think that fact alone points towards Ali being town.

i mean if ali was scum why would you expect e's telling the truth about the vote stealing?

[Sobolev Space]

when i was tunneling ali i was thinking e might just be voteless d2 and playing up the stolen vote thing for some scummy reason

either way its irrelevant since i tr ali on unrelated reasons and i'm convinced you genuinely believe your argument was true

[Sobolev Space]

tbh i should be cleared by pp nk

[Sobolev Space]

i could get on board with nm tbh

[Sobolev Space]

but would prefer asp if we're lynching in that duo

[Sobolev Space]

was busy yesterday and traveling all day today. hopefully going to catch up tonight or tomorrow

[Sobolev Space]

lol i wish it was something cool but im just going back to school in chicago

[Sobolev Space]

okay i'm caught up but first

rc, do you think i'm the vote thief? if not who do you think is my partner that stole at least one vote?

north, are you saying it could've been a town vote theft?

[Sobolev Space]

VC 2.2

No Lynch:

Gorkington

Not_Mafia (1):

A Simple Plan

Not Voting:

Everyone Else

With

???

votes available,

5

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2017-12-01 18:17:44)

also wanted to check this because i didn't see gork vote no lynch, do you have a hidden vote or know why your vote was there gork?

[Sobolev Space]

north, are you saying it could've been a town vote theft?

no, what i'm saying is that the purpose of the vote is to lead us to some false conclusion or contribute to some false narrative rather than the obvious conclusion of "the vote thief doesn't like the not mafia wagon and wants asp lynched".

fair enough, i wouldn't discount the possibility of asp or an asp partner doing the theft since its still feasible for nm to get lynched

[Sobolev Space]

VOTE: Sobolev Space

I think the vote thief suggests that scum are trying to play up that 1v1

like tell me if i'm misinterpreting this rc but i don't really get what you're saying. at the state the game was in the lynch was gonna be 95% asp or nm. i'm pretty sure its impossible for me to get lynched anyway given locked votes and ali voteless. so why would scum!me do the vote theft instead of just letting the day run its course?

[Sobolev Space]

nm can you state clearly whether or not your responsible for either of the stolen votes today?

[Sobolev Space]

lol hopefully?

[Sobolev Space]

oh lol thanks

[Sobolev Space]

is it just rc/nm/asp who haven't claimed?

[Sobolev Space]

why does it come from a scumteam with me on it?

[Sobolev Space]

don't give up plz y'all i'm on a win streak and i can't extend it without ur help

[Sobolev Space]

which one?

[Sobolev Space]

I don't think that scum have two vote thieves

i think you're right but like i also feel like alisae's vote was almost certainly stolen by scum since town would've claimed at the beginning of the day.

[Sobolev Space]

either

1) alisae is scum
or
2) NM is town

i'm leaning towards nm town because i brought up alisae faking the stolen vote thing earlier and this:

when i was tunneling ali i was thinking e might just be voteless d2 and playing up the stolen vote thing for some scummy reason

You lost me

seemed like genuine confusion. that said i'll probably reread some of alisae's posts about eir stolen vote at the beginning of d2 later tonight

[Sobolev Space]

thanks for providing an explanation of your read on me rc. i was a bit paranoid because you've always read me pretty quickly and accurately in past games but you're right that my motivation for this game has been shot since d1 so i haven't been obvtowning as hard as usual.

the other thing thats improved my rc read is that nm is less likely to be scum and i had rc/nm as one of my top potential scumteams earlier. that said, it means that even if asp is scum i have to start looking into my town leans to find his partner, and if he's not scum then i've just been completely off all game.

SS you're my biggest ? left in the game and I would appreciate it if you would post more and give me a clearer read on you.

this post still throws me a little because i gave you like 3 opportunities to engage with me yesterday and you didn't really but i'm willing to table it for now.

on the recent rc/nsg interaction - i don't actually scumread this. even though nsg seems inconsistent i'm not sure its a scummy inconsistency. it reminds me of this from one of my first newbie games. compare the brie (town) reaction to the frederick (scum) reaction. but unless rc's role has some extra stuff i'm not sure it matters anyway since our lynch options today are just asp/nm and i have a clear favorite out of those.

final comment is on sakura. i've been paranoid of sakura for a while now first as an alisae partner and later as an rc partner. but i just can't see scum who has vote lock capability using it in sakura's gambit d1. like as bad as that gambit was for town its even worse for scum since it makes them instantly lose one of their strongest tools in the game.

trying not to do too much pre-flip analysis but this seems to narrow down a potential asp partner to just {alisae, nsg} which looks helpful but i honestly have no idea which of those is more likely.

VOTE: asp

[Sobolev Space]

oh yea also can people please stop complaining about the setup. save it for postgame jfc

[Sobolev Space]

i dont think we can lynch asp today because of the vote freeze unless n_m has two votes.

I do

[Sobolev Space]

but i mean honestly who cares? like you wouldn't feel proud of winning a game even if you played like shit (trust me i have a lot of experience in this area) and you shouldn't feel bad for losing a game even if you play well. all that matters is how you play and spamming dejection all over the thread isn't helping yourself or anyone else play their best.

[Sobolev Space]

yea i'd say join the asp wagon but idk how many votes are on him now if nm possibly has two votes

[Sobolev Space]

[Sobolev Space]

yea sure im in class now but ill do it in 90 min when i get out. keep in mind a lot will depend on the flip today tho

[Sobolev Space]

okay i have a short amount of time to make a readlist. i'm going to make these my reads pre the current rc/nsg fight because i don't really have time to process this and reading small interactions like nsg's initial vote on rc is one of the worst parts of my towngame.

[Sobolev Space]

Reads:

Mechanically Towny and Towny Content

Sakura - Was pretty obvtown through day 1. I was a little suspicious of her at the beginning of day 2 but recent content looks solid. I mentioned in my last big post why I think role-wise she's probably town. Despite her day 1 gambit hurting us, it would be even worse as scum.

Alisae - After our fight I did some reevaluation. Not only did the narrative e presented there adequately explain the reason I was initially scumreading em, its been consistently shown their eir play this entire game. Also, if town stole Alisae's vote they almost certainly would have claimed it by now so the only way Alisae is scum is if e's voteless day 2 - but I mentioned in a previous post this is pretty unlikely given one of our interactions.

Gorkington - Towny content overall. Mechanically he's town if Alisae is town and truthfully claiming, and if Alisae is scum I don't see em pulling a gambit like this to clear eir scumpartner.

Mechanically Towny

Not_Mafia - Pretty easy to see this one.

Null for Now

North - I stated the reasons for my initial townread on north for her actions near the end of day 1. Play today hasn't been super impressive and is currently null pending my evaluation of her interaction with RC.

RC - I had a scumread on Maru. RC has been town-ish but not enough to completely override my initial scumread. Would normally be scummy but given that NM is likely town and NM/RC was one of the main possibilities I saw I'm bumping him up. That said, I at first thought Maru/ASP was unlikely because of Maru's willingness to shift onto ASP near deadline, but RC's interactions with ASP haven't done any more work to convince me they couldn't be partners.

Scum

ASP - Come on. Just look at his ISO for today.

[Sobolev Space]

i'm around and will be intermittently checking the thread through tonight and the morning.

who wants to talk

[Sobolev Space]

who should i vote

[Sobolev Space]

alternatively: what do you make of the recent rc/north shenanigans

[Sobolev Space]

i didn't scumread the initial "hmm" and then the vote but the thing that worries me is that in north's later explanations she gives like two reasons for her vote: 1. she thought scum roles could possibly work in lylo and 2. she thought rc could have been scum trying to get us to think his role worked in lylo. but these things can't both be true at the same time so it kinda feels like one was made up after the fact

[Sobolev Space]

rc did u have a scumread on north prior to her vote on you? can you point me to any posts supporting this?

[Sobolev Space]

lol we could lynch nm without you

[Sobolev Space]

thats all i'm trying to do

[Sobolev Space]

alisae idk about u but i'm feeling a little paranoid about rc/asp here

[Sobolev Space]

on the other hand this still would only buy rc like a day

[Sobolev Space]

I did not, I was considering her and you but I wasn't like scumreading her.

also lmao at this by this point you should realize this isn't my scumgame rc

[Sobolev Space]

i'm ready for an rc/alisae 1v1 with 36 hours to deadline

[Sobolev Space]

i mean the biggest impression i got from your scumplay that game was that you stay focused on the endgame as opposed to me who just kinda tries to act how i would as town.

that game we had a feasible path to victory if i was lynched. this game if asp is lynched and flips scum you're pretty much always on the chopping block the next day

[Sobolev Space]

yea i'm not very good at scum though

[Sobolev Space]

i mean given ur role ur almost certainly going to get your wish of an nsg lynch today as it is.

[Sobolev Space]

lol there's your path to endgame right there

[Sobolev Space]

oh wait shit i realized thats dependent on a north flip nvm

[Sobolev Space]

i thought you were trying to line up north -> ali lynches if ur paired with asp but that would've been too obvious

[Sobolev Space]

lmao

[Sobolev Space]

VOTE: nsg

hope ur right rc

[Sobolev Space]

If NSG does in fact flip some flavour of universal backup then we've got autowin fairly easily if we can confirm only one of Sobolev and ASP's roles as not being the vote thief

my role can be confirmed tomorrow but you probably won't like how...

[Sobolev Space]

If NSG does in fact flip some flavour of universal backup then we've got autowin fairly easily if we can confirm only one of Sobolev and ASP's roles as not being the vote thief

my role can be confirmed tomorrow but you probably won't like how...

I thought it already was confirmed

i mean it should be but in case anyone wants to confirm it again

[Sobolev Space]

dw nsg its all part of my plan

[Sobolev Space]

so like

[Sobolev Space]

I dont want an asp or an nsg lynch but will hammer to prevent a NL. Whoever is at L-1 when I wake up I'll hammer

I hate this. VOTE: a simple plan

tbh that no lynch actively makes not care more about this game

Same.

I hate no lynches. Now the mafia have influenced every bit of flip and associative info rather than us having 50%

I get an additional vote that gets consumed when used every day phase so I'll have 3 tomorrow.

I thought Executioner coz Executioner can get a lynch through with half the lynch treshold

technically I only needed two votes but I wanted to save my votes damnit

[Sobolev Space]

its rc/asp right?

[Sobolev Space]

whos scum then rc

[Sobolev Space]

i mean not really

[Sobolev Space]

yea i'm down for an rc lynch i'd just prefer everyone to post before voting

[Sobolev Space]

VOTE: rc

[Sobolev Space]

eh

UNVOTE:

if sakura's actually going to put effort into this i'll remove any possibility of an asp/nm quickhammer. still probably only going to be voting rc or asp today

[Sobolev Space]

Ok so NKA was a fail.
PP expressed strong suspicion on ASP, so did Gork, and... pretty much almost everyone has (except maru)

gork nk wasn't surprising. i think pretty much any scum team would have killed him cuz he was basically ruled out as a potential lynch

i think there's something to the pp nk because he wasn't widely townread. tbh i kinda assumed sakura would be the night one kill

[Sobolev Space]

lets talk alisae's vote steal rc:
are you saying alisae is scum whose vote was stolen by town? or that alisae faked the vote steal? neither i find that plausible

[Sobolev Space]

stay strong and don't fall into rc's trap sakura

[Sobolev Space]

nm who is scum

[Sobolev Space]

lol

[Sobolev Space]

what? i'm only treating nm as town because i don't think scum has 2 vote thiefs....

[Sobolev Space]

i mean if at least one scum has a nu role i don't think its that bad

[Sobolev Space]

i mean yea you're right....

[Sobolev Space]

i'm at like: sakura has been obvtown all game, nm is mechanically town. this leaves {alise,asp,rc}. out of these three most probable team seems to be asp/rc. i guess alisae/asp isn't out of the question but still seems much less likely than asp/rc

[Sobolev Space]

what's everyone's thoughts on asp today? like its pretty bad that he's lived this long as is...

i'd still prefer rc because i don't completely trust u guys to lynch him tomorrow if i'm nk-ed but i'd settle for asp if u all could get on board

[Sobolev Space]

and then scum!RC is going to win the game
and post game you are going to regret letting Cowbells ML me like this.

Actually if this is true i wouldnt even be mad because the game was BS unbalanced to begin with, specially if RC's role is scum.

i don't think rc + asp is that unbalanced. especially if rc is the vote thief and thats where he gets his extra votes which seems plausible given the whole didn't have one d1 thing

[Sobolev Space]

i'm at like: sakura has been obvtown all game, nm is mechanically town. this leaves {alise,asp,rc}. out of these three most probable team seems to be asp/rc. i guess alisae/asp isn't out of the question but still seems much less likely than asp/rc

why are you less sure about alisae/asp because that makes the most sense to me

and yes I think it's totally characteristic of alisae to have those 1v1s with scumbuddies but imo it makes more sense to be ASP in that circumstance, + having trouble seeing SS scum

i mean mostly mechanically. like i don't think alisae is voteless and i think its pretty unlikely but not impossible that e'd ask asp to steal his vote. if you can present a convincing case i'd look over it but if u inspire any doubt i'll probs just start pushing asp today and leave sorting u/alisae for tomorrow

[Sobolev Space]

I think that you're a really good player and you townreading me here would mean a lot to me.

you did make a good point on why scum would steal ali's vote. there's some stuff i want to reread but this thread is becoming way too spammy now for me to both work and keep up with it

[Sobolev Space]

and then scum!RC is going to win the game
and post game you are going to regret letting Cowbells ML me like this.

Actually if this is true i wouldnt even be mad because the game was BS unbalanced to begin with, specially if RC's role is scum.

i don't think rc + asp is that unbalanced. especially if rc is the vote thief and thats where he gets his extra votes which seems plausible given the whole didn't have one d1 thing

ASP got a vote back in D2, if on top of that RC is scum, that's 3 votes on the side of scum (on the trade for 1 vote on scum side D1)
How the hell are you not seeing this.
Meanwhile you keep shifting our focus to ASP, i think ASP is the scum designated ML now that RC's role doesnt make sense as scum.

i mean yea that doesn't seem to unbalanced to me... if town has ali's sensor role then both sides has some positive utility and some negative utility

[Sobolev Space]

sakura why would any team with me kill pp because he literally was treating me as lock town? like it really only makes sense with me/asp and then not really even...

okay now i'm actually out for the night

[Sobolev Space]

not hammering

[Sobolev Space]

but probably will in a bit

[Sobolev Space]

lol its asp

[Sobolev Space]

riperino

[Sobolev Space]

can asp just concede if rc flips scum?

[Sobolev Space]

tbh even if rc is scum we should've lynched asp today

[Sobolev Space]

also we should've lynched him d1 but that's neither here nor there

[Sobolev Space]

i mean asp has just been obvscum all game

[Sobolev Space]

zzzzzz

[Sobolev Space]

theres too much suspense i can't sleep

[Sobolev Space]

thanks sakura u did ur best

[Sobolev Space]

Ah screw it i cant even keep up the trolling.

[Sobolev Space]

oh rip

[Sobolev Space]

wp sakura if true

[Sobolev Space]

double riperino

[Sobolev Space]

oh well ggs

[Sobolev Space]

VOTE: asp

a little disappointed it wasn't sakura/alisae that would've been insane

[Sobolev Space]

zzzzzzzzz @alisae @nm