Micro 594: One Night Ultimate Werewolf 5 (Game over)

[PokerFace]

full seer may work just don't put it with aprentice. Having both is OP having one may be alright

My only concern with having full is if its doppled that nearly gaurantees 3 center card exposure. I think I'd rather sub in the hunter for a villager than turn the apprentice into a full seer. I see some value in scum fakeing hunter while there is no value when the scum is alone in a setup where two full seers out all center cards

[Lowell]

Eh I pretty much called pod as a scumguy. DO NOT DOUBT LOWELL.

I mean I also thought alex was town, but it seems like HE thought he was too, so my reads aren't so bad.

[vettrock]

From the site http://onenightultimate.com/ some recommended setups for 9 players.

9 2 Werewolves, 3 Villagers, Seer, Robber, Troublemaker, Tanner, Drunk, Hunter, Minion
9 Robber, Troublemaker, Tanner, Minion, Doppleganger, Alpha Wolf, Mystic Wolf, Apprentice Seer, Witch, Revealer, Bodyguard, Aura Seer
9 Seer, Robber, Troublemaker, Tanner, Drunk, 2 Masons, Minion, Doppleganger, Alpha Wolf, Mystic Wolf, Witch

What do you think?

For the new roles:
Tanner, wins if they are killed.
Drunk switches his card with one in the center without looking.
Hunter kills the person they are voting if they are killed.
Alpha wolf: In addition to being a werewolf, selects one player and swaps their card with a designated werewolf card in the center making them another werewolf without their knowledge.
Mystic wolf: May look at one other players card.
Witch -starts on the village team. She may look at one of the center cards. If she does so, then she must swap that card with that of any of the players, including herself. Therefore, if she gives herself a werewolf card or tanner, she joins the werewolf team, or stands alone.
Revealer-looks at another players card. If it is not a werewolf or a tanner, the card remains face up.
Bodyguard-The person voted by the bodyguard cannot be killed. If they have the most votes, the person with the second most is killed as long as they have more than one.
Aura Seer- Is told which players either looked at or swapped cards, but not which action they took, or which cards.

[podoboq]

From the site http://onenightultimate.com/ some recommended setups for 9 players.

9 2 Werewolves, 3 Villagers, Seer, Robber, Troublemaker, Tanner, Drunk, Hunter, Minion
9 Robber, Troublemaker, Tanner, Minion, Doppleganger, Alpha Wolf, Mystic Wolf, Apprentice Seer, Witch, Revealer, Bodyguard, Aura Seer
9 Seer, Robber, Troublemaker, Tanner, Drunk, 2 Masons, Minion, Doppleganger, Alpha Wolf, Mystic Wolf, Witch

What do you think?

For the new roles:
Tanner, wins if they are killed.
Drunk switches his card with one in the center without looking.
Hunter kills the person they are voting if they are killed.
Alpha wolf: In addition to being a werewolf, selects one player and swaps their card with a designated werewolf card in the center making them another werewolf without their knowledge.
Mystic wolf: May look at one other players card.
Witch -starts on the village team. She may look at one of the center cards. If she does so, then she must swap that card with that of any of the players, including herself. Therefore, if she gives herself a werewolf card or tanner, she joins the werewolf team, or stands alone.
Revealer-looks at another players card. If it is not a werewolf or a tanner, the card remains face up.
Bodyguard-The person voted by the bodyguard cannot be killed. If they have the most votes, the person with the second most is killed as long as they have more than one.
Aura Seer- Is told which players either looked at or swapped cards, but not which action they took, or which cards.

First setup is a bit basic. Seems pretty antitown.
Second setup is absolute chaos. I love it, but it will probably be a bit overwhelming.
Third setup is still pretty hectic (potential for five wolves).

As far as individual roles go, I think the Drunk is pretty unfun, especially with a Seer involved. I've always houseruled the Drunk that they get to look at a center card AFTER switching. So they don't know what they are, but they get some information to help balance their horrible role out.

I've always liked the Revealer, but the townie who gets revealed is sometimes pretty upset about it.

I hate Aura Seer. They have far more information than any other role.

Also, Witch has a lot of power. That doesn't make her bad, I'm just saying she does a lot. She can potentially make somebody a Werewolf, then call out that information.

I've always liked the Sentinel. He takes the first night action, and protects a card from being interacted with at all. All players can see the protected card, and know they can't do anything with it. A protected Robber or Drunk doesn't get to perform their night action.


I also love playing without Basic Villagers, but in order to do that, you need a lot of information trading, and roles like the Tanner and Minion who are willing to draw attention to themselves.

[PokerFace]

When this is run again, I'd nix the ability to double lynch. I think it makes it too easy for town. As I said earlier, the party game is so much shorter that it's not plausible to build a fool proof split. The nature of forums makes this version inherently different, and I think you need to change the rules for a tie to disallow a double lynch.

Or, implement the Tanner. The Tanner is a neutral party, and only wins if he dies. If the Tanner dies, all other players lose. This could help to discourage a split vote.

I like playing as tanners and jesters, but I hate playing against them. If I am scum, I want to be able to lynch everyone so I can survive. If I am town, I want to lynch scummy players. Punishing both those alignments for doing what they are suppose to lynch, feels wrong.

For these reasons I would not like to play with a Tanner. It rewards bad play if you are one and punishes good play if you are not one

I prefer minion over tanner as that role is werewolf aligned instead of 3rd party. Scum is not penalized for lynching it and does not have to decide if something is a tanner or not. Since werewolves don't know their minions, worrying your minion is a tanner is a problem when tanner's are allowed in the game.

I am not bothered by town getting punished by a minion lynch simply because finding who not to lynch can be argued to be a job of any town. Meanwhile finding who not to lynch should never be a job of the scum

[shos]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7770772

[PokerFace]

For the new roles:
Tanner, wins if they are killed.

Already said why I don't like this role

Drunk switches his card with one in the center without looking.

This role randomly screws someone and there is no way of learning what you now are. Don't want

Hunter kills the person they are voting if they are killed.

I am fine with this role. It can help both sides somewhat

Alpha wolf: In addition to being a werewolf, selects one player and swaps their card with a designated werewolf card in the center making them another werewolf without their knowledge.

This role screws over a player and does not really help scum much since their new scum buddy doesn't know he is scum. Don't want to play with it

Mystic wolf: May look at one other players card.

This role is fine. Should Town be wining a lot we should start running games with this to give the wolves a better chance

Witch -starts on the village team. She may look at one of the center cards. If she does so, then she must swap that card with that of any of the players, including herself. Therefore, if she gives herself a werewolf card or tanner, she joins the werewolf team, or stands alone.

I don't like this role. She could grab werewolf from center, give it to another player, claim witch and get that player and herself double lynched for the win as town

Revealer-looks at another players card. If it is not a werewolf or a tanner, the card remains face up.

I am fine with this role. I may need to change my setup idea to include this but I have a question. If it reveals a minion does the card stay revealed?

Bodyguard-The person voted by the bodyguard cannot be killed. If they have the most votes, the person with the second most is killed as long as they have more than one.

I see nothing wrong with this role. But I don't see too many instances where it would be helpful either, so meh it ok

Aura Seer- Is told which players either looked at or swapped cards, but not which action they took, or which cards.

They check one player to see if they are a power role or do they learn who all has powers?

[vettrock]

For the new roles:
Tanner, wins if they are killed.

Already said why I don't like this role

Drunk switches his card with one in the center without looking.

This role randomly screws someone and there is no way of learning what you now are. Don't want

Hunter kills the person they are voting if they are killed.

I am fine with this role. It can help both sides somewhat

Alpha wolf: In addition to being a werewolf, selects one player and swaps their card with a designated werewolf card in the center making them another werewolf without their knowledge.

This role screws over a player and does not really help scum much since their new scum buddy doesn't know he is scum. Don't want to play with it

Mystic wolf: May look at one other players card.

This role is fine. Should Town be wining a lot we should start running games with this to give the wolves a better chance

Witch -starts on the village team. She may look at one of the center cards. If she does so, then she must swap that card with that of any of the players, including herself. Therefore, if she gives herself a werewolf card or tanner, she joins the werewolf team, or stands alone.

I don't like this role. She could grab werewolf from center, give it to another player, claim witch and get that player and herself double lynched for the win as town

Revealer-looks at another players card. If it is not a werewolf or a tanner, the card remains face up.

I am fine with this role. I may need to change my setup idea to include this but I have a question. If it reveals a minion does the card stay revealed?

Bodyguard-The person voted by the bodyguard cannot be killed. If they have the most votes, the person with the second most is killed as long as they have more than one.

I see nothing wrong with this role. But I don't see too many instances where it would be helpful either, so meh it ok

Aura Seer- Is told which players either looked at or swapped cards, but not which action they took, or which cards.

They check one player to see if they are a power role or do they learn who all has powers?

I agree on the drunk and the Tanner. It looks like a Minion stays revealed from the description. We could house rule modify that as I don't think it would be good to keep a minion revealed.

For the Aura Seer in the actual game everyone that swapped or looked at a card puts their thumb up when the Aura Seer wakes up. Here I would just send the Aura Seer a list of players who manipulated cards.

[shos]

<NOMINATED>

[podoboq]

<NOMINATED>

Thanks, man. Is our field "Kodak Moment"? I'm glad I could contribute to a game so weird it got nominated.

[shos]

Apparantly this is the only thing that fits lol so yeah

[PokerFace]

Aura Seer- Is told which players either looked at or swapped cards, but not which action they took, or which cards.

They check one player to see if they are a power role or do they learn who all has powers?

[/quote]

I agree on the drunk and the Tanner. It looks like a Minion stays revealed from the description. We could house rule modify that as I don't think it would be good to keep a minion revealed.

For the Aura Seer in the actual game everyone that swapped or looked at a card puts their thumb up when the Aura Seer wakes up. Here I would just send the Aura Seer a list of players who manipulated cards.[/quote]
I don't want to play with Tanner, Drunk, Witch, Alpha Wolf, or Aura Seer (Aura is too powerful imo)
I would not mind playing with Bodyguard, Revealer, Hunter, Mystic wolf

[PokerFace]

ebwop

I agree on the drunk and the Tanner. It looks like a Minion stays revealed from the description. We could house rule modify that as I don't think it would be good to keep a minion revealed.

For the Aura Seer in the actual game everyone that swapped or looked at a card puts their thumb up when the Aura Seer wakes up. Here I would just send the Aura Seer a list of players who manipulated cards.

I don't want to play with Tanner, Drunk, Witch, Alpha Wolf, or Aura Seer (Aura is too powerful imo)
I would not mind playing with Bodyguard, Revealer, Hunter, Mystic wolf

[podoboq]

Revealer is probably my favorite role outside of the base game, to be honest.

[vettrock]

I think I will go with:
Mystic Werewolf
Werewolf
Minion
Apprentice Seer
Troublemaker
Robber
Villager
Villager
Revealer (with house rule not to leave revealed minion or werewolf)
Insomniac
Doppleganger
Paranormal Investigator


One of the interesting things about the Alpha wolf that I read is the Drunk can take the werewolf card from the center and that way knows his alignment, although that kind of messes with the alpha wolf's plans.

[podoboq]

Is PI going to be houseruled at all? Or is it going to have the ability to become a Werewolf?

[vettrock]

Is PI going to be houseruled at all? Or is it going to have the ability to become a Werewolf?

I'm fine with it becoming a werewolf. Or do you think that adds too much power to the werewolf side.

[podoboq]

Is PI going to be houseruled at all? Or is it going to have the ability to become a Werewolf?

I'm fine with it becoming a werewolf. Or do you think that adds too much power to the werewolf side.

There's 5 potential scum at that point. Though none would have complete information..

I think it's OK. It just has the potential to get weird. Corner case to take note of. If Doppleganger hits PI, then checks a Werewolf, they DO NOT wake up with the Werewolves and DO NOT show up to Minion.

[PokerFace]

After much thought, I think best balanced setup is

Werewolf
Werewolf
Minion
Apprentice Seer
Apprentice Seer
Troublemaker
Robber
Villager
Villager
Villager
Insomniac
Doppleganger

Is balanced best. Yes it has two apprentice seers. This amounts to 1-3 center cards being revealed as apposed to 2-3. It also amounts to better scum fake claims since finding a liar among 3 players claiming the same role is hard.

As I am a bit overextended with real life stuff and am already in another game, I won't be joining the next ONUW regardless of its setup. Perhaps one day I myself will moderate this game with the setup I have outlined here.

Also I think revealer may be too powerful. Considering it leaves a card flipped up, it obviously acts last even after troublemaker. Also let's say revealer finds werewolf. The revealer will know they found scum despite no one else knowing it. And they will know their results are legit since they must have acted last. Also all other players will see that "hmm there is no card flipped at game start, either revealer found scum or revealer is in center". Revealer at this point should obv claim who they found to be werewolf. This could lead to a double lynch or some massive counter claim wars! For most part I think these actions will lead to a town victory more often than leading to a scum victory. I have not done math on this possibility but for most part i still feel revealer favors town more than scum. And consider the series is scum 2 town 3, town already wins enough

[PokerFace]

Yes it has two apprentice seers. This could amount to 1-3 center cards being revealed as apposed to 2-3 (one of them gets doppled). However it also amounts to better scum fake claims since finding a liar among 3 players claiming the same role is hard. Even if doppelganger vouches for one of them

ebwop

[vettrock]

Wake order is:

0 – Sentinel
1 – Doppelgänger
2 – Werewolf (2x)
2-B – Alpha Wolf (also wakes up at 2)
2-C – Mystic Wolf (also wakes up at 2)
3 – Minionbonus pack box
4 – Mason (2x)
5 – Seer
5-B – Apprentice Seer
5-C – Paranormal Investigator
6 – Robber
6-B – Witch
7 – Troublemaker
7-B – Village Idiot
7-C – Aura Seer
8 – Drunk
9 – Insomniac
10 – Revealer
11 – Curator
Does not wake

Dream Wolf
Bodyguard
Cursed
Tanner
Hunter
Prince
Villager (3x)

So yes, the revealer is at the end.

[Radja]

[Radja]

Bump