Micro 670: Death Miller Mafia 2 GAME OVER

[rb]

funnily eniugh all people that i know who are named Sam are pretty serious

[mykonian]

votecount

karnos (3): GuiltyLion, Road Kamelot, Lemons
GuiltyLion (2): BTD6_maker, karnos
culted (1): Charloux
Road Kamelot (1): culted
Charloux (1): rb

not voting (1): ArcAngel9

[rb]

Karnos is town noobs

[GuiltyLion]

let's get even more serious now and make things abundantly clear

1) karnos posted something stupid by implying that he can be guilted
2) I said it was a bad post
3) karnos asked me why
4) I pointed out that it implied he could be guiltied
5) karnos says I'm scum for pointing out that he implied that he could be guilted
6) I ask him why does that make me scum
7) karnos refuses to answer and starts WIFOMing that he actually intended to imply that for "reasons" which will be explained "later" aka he is now trying to soft that he actually can't be guilted after all

None of it what karnos is doing is town play. If karnos were town he'd be willing to answer me about why only scum would do #2 or #4, he'd have a good reason for thinking that. But he can't give a good reason, because I'm town and I did #2 and #4 to try to sort him based off of #1, to see if #1 was legitimately a stupid post or a scum post. karnos' response was to tunnel on me, refuse to engage with me directly, and also start instead trying to imply that he's a PR deliberately WIFOMing in #1. That's not a town response.

[karnos]

This wagon building fast.

GL is playing very anti town. Without going into detail, one big difference between town and scum is such: a town player will look at a reason why an action might be taken by town, while scum players just need to look for a reason why an action might be taken by scum.

The is a perfectly good reason for my plan, I assure you, but the act of explaining it would ruin it.

[karnos]

Ultimately, I'll explain when I'm at L-1 with intent, not before, because I see no reason to ruin things if I don't have to.

[rb]

Karnos is town noobs

[rb]

Anyone who thinks Karnos is scum is slow irl

[rb]

Welcome to my townblock Karnos. Population: rb and karnos

Wanna vote Charloux with me?

GL is derp but derp doesn't mean scum

[rb]

I am doing a poop at the moment so this is a shitpost

[GuiltyLion]

GL is playing very anti town. Without going into detail, one big difference between town and scum is such: a town player will look at a reason why an action might be taken by town, while scum players just need to look for a reason why an action might be taken by scum.

The is a perfectly good reason for my plan, I assure you, but the act of explaining it would ruin it.

uh, no, sorry, more bullshit.

Even if you are town, your "plan" is complete shit and indistinguishable from scum, and therefore trash play. What you did is functionally no different than claiming VT on page 2 in a normal setup (like a Newbie matrix setup, for example). It's WIFOM for the sake of WIFOM and completely worthless,

while giving you a cover to explain why you weren't NK'd, if you are scum

. Town shouldn't ever bullshit and introduce WIFOM and play games, town should hunt scum.

Which, by the way, you are not doing. You still haven't explained why I can't be town in your opinion. Do you disagree with my summary in 103? Do you not see why my actions could be taken by town? Who else, besides me, do you have any sort of read on?

[GuiltyLion]

and what's even worse is you didn't even explicitly claim VT, you just "slipped" it (or scumslipped) and then backtracked by trying to imply that it was actually an intentional play. Which again, doesn't make sense, because you had to ask me to point out what was wrong with your initial post. Now you're trying to set it up so you can claim to be either a VT or a PR.

Either talk to me and explain why I can't be town for calling you out on your anti-town play, and simultaneously start scumhunting elsewhere, or else you can get lynched, because you're doing absolutely nothing that is useful to anyone and there's a significant chance you're just bullshitting scum.

[GuiltyLion]

like, let's just pretend for the sake of argument that karnos is ACTUALLY a town PR intentionally spreading WIFOM to trick those silly scums into keeping him alive

would a PR be comfortable letting himself be run up to L-1 and then being forced to claim at that point? Would a PR just be sitting around obtusely referring to this master plan but not actually trying to game-solve and just be town to show to his voters that he's town?

Do his actions make more sense from a town!PR perspective or a scum perspective, where he'd be trying to soft a PR but not actually claim it to dissolve the wagon on him, yet keep his play as flexible as possible?

If karnos were a VT then he already slipped at this point, and what he should do is make the most of it and relentlessly hunt scum and be aggressive and be so obnoxiously obvtown that scum are forced to kill him anyway, because he's unlynchable. But karnos isn't doing that either, instead he wants to pretend he's got some genius next level "plan" in hopes that we get bored with him and look elsewhere.

[rb]

"everyone should have my playstyle and anyone who doesn't is scum"

who's your second best scumread GL tythx

[ArcAngel9]

let's get even more serious now and make things abundantly clear

1) karnos posted something stupid by implying that he can be guilted
2) I said it was a bad post
3) karnos asked me why
4) I pointed out that it implied he could be guiltied
5) karnos says I'm scum for pointing out that he implied that he could be guilted
6) I ask him why does that make me scum
7) karnos refuses to answer and starts WIFOMing that he actually intended to imply that for "reasons" which will be explained "later" aka he is now trying to soft that he actually can't be guilted after all

None of it what karnos is doing is town play. If karnos were town he'd be willing to answer me about why only scum would do #2 or #4, he'd have a good reason for thinking that. But he can't give a good reason, because I'm town and I did #2 and #4 to try to sort him based off of #1, to see if #1 was legitimately a stupid post or a scum post. karnos' response was to tunnel on me, refuse to engage with me directly, and also start instead trying to imply that he's a PR deliberately WIFOMing in #1. That's not a town response.

How is not willing to answer someone question makes it scum???

that makes him lousy town player or bad player. I am failing to see your logic here

[Charloux]

Well Karnos is obvtown to me. RB buddy-ing him is just his playstyle(If i got his character right) with no ulterior motives.
GuiltyLion is rubbing salt on a mistake Karnos made and is not letting go which will only hurt town in the long run. Don't think he is scum for pushing, but if i were scum i would either let this play out without me involving myself or find a reason to get Karnos to L-1 *looks at Lemons*

[rb]

Why is Charloux now going from thinking I'm scummy to now saying it's just my playstyle with no ulterior motives?

Can we just powerlynch this scum already

[Charloux]

You are really sharp sometimes but can also be pretty dull at others. It was already explained that 28 was fake.
You like quantity over quality so it was important for me to get a grasp on your personality.

[GuiltyLion]

"everyone should have my playstyle and anyone who doesn't is scum"

who's your second best scumread GL tythx

Don't be reductionist. karnos isn't scumhunting. karnos is accusing me of being scum for weak reasoning and is refusing to explain. His play isn't doing anything to help find scum.

Second best scumread is culted

[Charloux]

Whats your read on RB then? His play so far can be summarized in pointing fingers at me. How is that different from Karnos? Also i can't see Culted as anything but a jokester, and even though my RVS vote is still there i have a null read on him. What did you see in his posts that looks scummy?

[Lemons]

I'm willing to admit that my vote on karnos may have been a kneejerk reaction to something due to my limited experience. Now that I have more time/less stress, I'm going to reread the thread later and see if my opinions change at all.
I would like to hear about the read on culted as well. Is it only because he disagreed with you about karnos?

[GuiltyLion]

Whats your read on RB then? His play so far can be summarized in pointing fingers at me. How is that different from Karnos? Also i can't see Culted as anything but a jokester, and even though my RVS vote is still there i have a null read on him. What did you see in his posts that looks scummy?

I would not summarize rb's play as simply "pointing fingers at you". rb has also called karnos town, argued with RK over chainsawing for Charloux, and soft-defended myself as town too. He's interacting with others, presenting reads, advancing the game.

Meanwhile, karnos' opinions on anything/anyone are...?

with respect to culted, I thought his case on RK was weak and made to misrep RK rather than coming from genuine intentions and thought process.

[GuiltyLion]

I feel like everyone is like "wait oh shit karnos could be a PR slipping VT for WIFOM, he's softing it, let's townread him"

well, I've been playing for a year and a half and I have seen a lot of scums soft PRs and get away with it. I just recently lost a game partially because I thought someone was the doc when they weren't. I'm not letting that happen in this game, if karnos is town he needs to stop trying to play bullshit WIFOM plans and needs to play openly and straighforwardly

[karnos]

if karnos is town he needs to stop trying to play bullshit WIFOM plans and needs to play openly and straighforwardly

So are you asking me to claim on day 1 when I'm not even at L-1?

[karnos]

It's mostly RVS here.

Anyway, I basically looked at Karnos vs. GuiltyLion. I don't have much time at the moment but what I will say is that it is GuiltyLion that looks slightly worse from the interactions.

when do you expect to have some more time?