Mini Normal 1809 Mod PT

[Dierfire]

This is the Mod PT for my notes.

GAME DESIGN

1x Mafia Ascetic Roleblocker
2x Mafia Goon

1x Town Weak Neighborizer
1x Town Jailkeeper
1x Town 1-shot Vigilante
7x Vanilla Town

PLAYERS

01. Robbnva
02. Elyse
03. BlankFace
04. cmitc1
05. Vedith
06. Wake88
07. Grendel
08. Hoopla
09. BBmolla
10. House
11. Masquerade
12. Egg
13. ChaosOmega

[Dierfire]

I'll roll for each player, with the ordered results of the rolls giving the roles listwise (highest gets Mafia Ascetic Roleblocker, next highest gets Mafia Goon, next highest gets Mafia Goon, and so on with the lowest six getting VT). Tied results will be culled out and rolled against each other for placement when that would affect their roles (if two players are tied for highest, I'll roll them against each other for the highest to be Mafia Ascetic Roleblocker and the other to be Mafia Goon; if two players are tied for lowest, they both get Vanilla Town).

01. Robbnva

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (57) = 57

02. Elyse

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (16) = 16

03. BlankFace

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (70) = 70

04. cmitc1

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (55) = 55

05. Vedith

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (41) = 41

06. Wake88

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (8) = 8

07. Grendel

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (95) = 95

08. Hoopla

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (90) = 90

09. BBmolla

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (91) = 91

10. House

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (50) = 50

11. Masquerade

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (83) = 83

12. Egg

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (66) = 66

13. ChaosOmega

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (92) = 92

[Dierfire]

Both cmitc1 and Masquerade rolled 65. These will be rolled again; the higher number is a Mafia Goon (with Elyse and BlankFace), and the lower number is the Town Weak Neighborizer.

cmitc1

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (66) = 66

Masquerade

Original Roll String: 1d100

1 100-Sided Dice: (99) = 99

[Dierfire]

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome, Elyse, to Mini Normal 1809!

Your role is Ascetic Roleblocker, aligned with

Mafia

.

Abilities: You may converse with the other players aligned with Mafia at this link. During each Night Phase, one living player aligned with Mafia may be assigned to kill one living player not aligned with Mafia. If the action is successful, the target will die.
In addition, during each Night Phase, you may choose one living player not aligned with Mafia to block. If your action is successful, any action attempted by that player during that Night Phase will fail. You will not be informed whether your action was successful. You may not use this ability during a Night Phase in which you are assigned to make the factional kill.
Finally, any action that targets you, other than an action that would kill you, will fail automatically.

Victory: You win if the number of living players aligned with Mafia is greater than or equal to the number of living players not aligned with Mafia, or if nothing can prevent this.

Welcome, BlankFace, to Mini Normal 1809!

Your role is Goon, aligned with

Mafia

.

Abilities: You may converse with the other players aligned with Mafia at this link. During each Night Phase, one living player aligned with Mafia may be assigned to kill one living player not aligned with Mafia. If the action is successful, the target will die.

Victory: You win if the number of living players aligned with Mafia is greater than or equal to the number of living players not aligned with Mafia, or if nothing can prevent this.

Welcome, Masquerade, to Mini Normal 1809!

Your role is Goon, aligned with

Mafia

.

Abilities: You may converse with the other players aligned with Mafia at this link. During each Night Phase, one living player aligned with Mafia may be assigned to kill one living player not aligned with Mafia. If the action is successful, the target will die.

Victory: You win if the number of living players aligned with Mafia is greater than or equal to the number of living players not aligned with Mafia, or if nothing can prevent this.

Welcome, cmitc1, to Mini Normal 1809!

Your role is Weak Neighborizer, aligned with

Town

.

Abilities: You have access to a PT at this link that will remain open for discussion at all times. During each Night Phase, you may send me the name of one living player (you may not choose yourself). If your action is successful, that player will be given access to the PT. If your target is not aligned with Town, you will die (your target will still be given access to the PT).

Victory: You win if all living players are aligned with Town.

Welcome, Robbnva, to Mini Normal 1809!

Your role is Jailkeeper, aligned with

Town

.

Abilities: During each Night Phase, you may send me the name of a single living player (you may not choose yourself). If your action is successful, that player will be unable to die during that Night Phase and any action attempted by that player during that Night Phase will fail. You will not be informed whether your action was successful.

Victory: You win if all living players are aligned with Town.

Welcome, Grendel, to Mini Normal 1809!

Your role is 1-shot Vigilante, aligned with

Town

.

Abilities: During one Night Phase, you may send me the name of a single living player (you may not choose yourself). If your action is successful, that player will die.

Victory: You win if all living players are aligned with Town.

Welcome, House, to Mini Normal 1809!

Your role is Vanilla Town, aligned with

Town

.

Abilities: You have no special abilities.

Victory: You win if all living players are aligned with Town.

Welcome, BBmolla, to Mini Normal 1809!

Your role is Vanilla Town, aligned with

Town

.

Abilities: You have no special abilities.

Victory: You win if all living players are aligned with Town.

Welcome, Egg, to Mini Normal 1809!

Your role is Vanilla Town, aligned with

Town

.

Abilities: You have no special abilities.

Victory: You win if all living players are aligned with Town.

Welcome, Vedith, to Mini Normal 1809!

Your role is Vanilla Town, aligned with

Town

.

Abilities: You have no special abilities.

Victory: You win if all living players are aligned with Town.

Welcome, Hoopla, to Mini Normal 1809!

Your role is Vanilla Town, aligned with

Town

.

Abilities: You have no special abilities.

Victory: You win if all living players are aligned with Town.

Welcome, ChaosOmega, to Mini Normal 1809!

Your role is Vanilla Town, aligned with

Town

.

Abilities: You have no special abilities.

Victory: You win if all living players are aligned with Town.

Welcome, Wake88, to Mini Normal 1809!

Your role is Vanilla Town, aligned with

Town

.

Abilities: You have no special abilities.

Victory: You win if all living players are aligned with Town.

[Dierfire]

All roles have been distributed and the confirmation phase has begun.

I'm noting here that Performer asked to be a spectator without spoilers. I'll be forwarding to him all "Day Start" PM that I send to the entire player list so that it will be easier for him to follow. He does not have access to the Mod PT, Mafia PT, Dead PT, or Neighbor PT.

[Dierfire]

Spoiler: Quote

If you're a PR you don't deserve to die

but that doesn't make you right

Role fishing?

I'm not a pr but I can still fuck town over

You fucking claimed bulletproof.

Note you say you aren't.

One way out the other, you're lying and deserve to hang BY YOUR STANDARDS.

Sorry I'm in 2 games with that ass wipe

I'm bp yes I am.

Town will be losing said bp if you aren't lynched

This appears to be Robbnva claiming VT for my game, but making the claim in a different game thread (Newbie 1722). Robbnva is active in other games than mine, but the underlined section above appears to specify an active game in which BBmolla is also active, which would narrow the scope to just my game.
I don't believe that this counts as compromising BBmolla in my game, since there's no guarantee that Robbnva is being truthful with that claim (in fact, Robbnva is Jailkeeper in this game). Also, even if BBmolla were compromised, force-replacing wouldn't help, since the other game is public information (in fact, another player in my game who is not active in Newbie 1722 has also seen that information). Replacing/killing those players in my game would not solve any problem.
I also don't believe that the Robbnva slot is compromised in my game; there's no guarantee that that claim is truthful, so it would not be accurate to say that other players have obtained information that they should not have (Robbnva could, for example, be Mafia in my game and claim VT, so it's not as though the other players to see this quote have any information that unfairly breaks the game). Therefore, I don't believe that replacing/killing the slot would serve to correct an issue of inappropriate information.
The only thing that I still need to consider is whether some action is warranted for disciplinary reasons rather than balance-preserving reasons. Since disciplinary action is not emergent, I believe that I have time to consult with the authorities. My thought is that Robbnva should probably receive a warning from the Mod of the other game and instructions to not discuss ongoing games outside of the appropriate threads.

[Dierfire]

The main reason for the recent temporary thread lock was that Robbnva seemed to imply that site administration indicated that he was to be killed in this game.

I've already clarified with a site mod that my punishment will result in a mod kill and a temporary site ban. It's not egregious enough for a permanent ban.

I have received no indication from any authority that this is the case, and Robbnva has clarified by PM that this is not the case.

Robbnva also seemed to accuse other players of bringing outside influences into the game.

yways, why are you threatening this anti-town behavior Robbnva?

Cause molla is scum and people aren't lynching him because he's molla and are willing to let their friend live longer just cause they are friends.

On my review I do not find sufficient evidence of this behavior to take any action.

House believes that Robbnva violated site rules for ruining the game, and for the discussion of other games in the game mentioned previously.

@Huose considering that you added the most fual to the Molla vs Rob flame you really shouldn't be talking.

I'm not the one making threats to ruin the game and providing the ultimatum to lynch in less than a day or regret it.

Rob crossed a line I never went anywhere near

He actually crossed TWO lines, but I can't discuss the other one because rules.

I do not feel that the former behavior requires action on my part because I do not feel that it deviates to a sufficient degree, or with sufficiently malicious intent, from behavior that players normally take in attempting to advocate for the lynch of other players. The ultimatum below comes closest to the line.

If molla isn't lynched by the time my counter hits zero town is going to regret it. I'm not fucking joking.

As Robbnva has recanted that position, I do not feel that replacing/killing the slot is necessary at this time.

I feel that the latter behavior is probably against site rules, but as I discussed previously I do not feel that it compromises this game such that action on my part is needed (killing/replacing the slot). I'm still conferring with the authorities on what action should be taken.

[Dierfire]

This post by Robbnva requires some comments.

mod, if house is lynchhed today I will request replacement

Will that work?

mod is this acceptable to you?

For one thing, I'm not a player in this game, and I definitely will not be entering into any deals in which one player is lynched in exchange for another replacing. That would constitute unfair influence on the game on my part. The idea of having a player leave in exchange for another player leaving also sits wrong with me, as I feel that it would constitute replacement for strategic reasons.
I've given Robbnva instructions to not pursue this attempt to invoke unfair influence on my part any further. I still have to figure out what to say in the main thread that doesn't confirm or imply that Robbnva is Town.

[Dierfire]

This post by House needs a comment as well.

I've already clarified with a site mod that my punishment will result in a mod kill and a temporary site ban. It's not egregious enough for a permanent ban.

THIS IS WHY I SAID THAT YOU FUCKING ASSCLOWN.

But wake asked you what you would do IF I RETRACTED MY THREAT

Which means my threat was off the table

You reply that you still want me mod killed.

Oh so sorry you lose.

Now good night.

When you pretended to act like you had a modicum of common sense after you can within a pube hair of having that happen, did I go on about wanting you mod killed? No?

Shut the fuck up then, you toxic piece of trash.

I wanted your poisonous excrementation to stop. Period.

It's clear to anyone with a functioning brain stem (sorry to exclude you, but you did that here, not me) that I wanted you replaced and only accepted that you'd be modkilled AFTER YOU SAID IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

This post is getting toward the level of aggression that would require my intervention. I've sent a PM by House warning him of such.

[Dierfire]

Also since some players are requesting that I replace Robbnva, I'm recording here that I've given him warnings about specific behaviors, but he's always been quick to apologize in ways that suggest that he's not actively trying to ruin my game.

Apologies for my temper. I am no longer making any threats to anyone. I'm still pushing my scum reads however.

vote: molla

I'll consider lynches on house or egg atm but don't personally agree with a vedith lynch.

Sorry to be a pest. I'd appreciate it if nobody attempts to argue with me and I'll refrain from arguing with you.

I'm sorry to everyone.

Obviously I'll be on the watch for continued behavior in this vein, because at some point the game could be ruined even by unintentional actions, but in my judgment Robbnva has to this point not crossed a line that requires a forcible replacement/kill of the slot.

[Dierfire]

I've been instructed that the situation regarding discussion of ongoing games requires me to kill the Robbnva slot.

[Dierfire]

Since I'm reading the MD thread about balance, this is a good time to note that the Town suffers from the loss of the Jailkeeper here. The only roles that they have left are the 1-Shot Vigilante and the Weak Neighborizer. I'm most interested in seeing how the latter behaves, but I don't think that it's likely to be a tremendous help.
If the Neighborizer doesn't target a Mafia player, the Vigilante will return us to odd numbers of players for day phases.

[Dierfire]

Time to discuss N1 actions! I haven't received one from everyone yet, but I'm going to go ahead anyway.

I think that cmitc1 is in a difficult position here. Perhaps this is just a result of paying more attention to my tasks, but I couldn't say that any player in the game is an especially obvious pick for Town. Of course, cmitc1 could go for a guilty result (although I'm also not aware that any player in particular is standing out that way), but without having called a target beforehand, this is unlikely to be successful.
Grendel should have a strong incentive to shoot before dying so as to give Town an extra kill rather than forcing a day without a lynch. Whether "shoot before dying" means "shoot N1" is unclear to me, especially given how few players seem to be standing out. At the very least, the additional kill will strongly suggest that Grendel is Town if he claims it (particularly if it hits a Mafia player, although even if it hits a Town player it will likely weigh in his favor).
The Mafia players are almost done doing useful things with the Roleblocker; Grendel only has one action, which leaves cmitc1 as the major target. On the other hand, the block does serve as insurance in case they want to leave Grendel alive for some reason (the block protects against the possibility that he has additional shots or JOAT abilities). House seems to have attracted attention as a possible PR, which could help draw the block away from the more important roles.
Again, I'm not seeing any player in particular that needs to die, so they could probably kill most any player. In their position I'd probably attempt to kill players who look likely to be replaced and thereby allow someone to enter and make order from chaos.
BlankFace might be sacrificed at some point, although the removal of Robbnva and the kill by Grendel accelerate the end of the game and will perhaps allow the Mafia players to buy sufficient credit with a single sacrifice--or even none--to wrap up the rest of the game.

[Dierfire]

Site authorities have directed that House is to be replaced for the discussion of ongoing games.

[Dierfire]

Killthestory replaces House.

[Dierfire]

N1 actions:

Elyse blocks Hoopla (successful, Hoopla unable to take any action)
Masquerade kills ChaosOmega (successful, ChaosOmega dies)
cmitc1 recruits Elyse (unsuccessful, Elyse is not added to the Neighborhood, cmitc1 lives)
Grendel takes no action

[Dierfire]

Well, I though that the Town looked to be in trouble with all roles being claimed, but Hoopla seems to be making order from chaos.

Sadly, the Town PR are just about finished; the Mafia players are now able to block one and kill the other. The good news is that a single action will go through tonight (I'd guess that the Mafia order will be to block Grendel and kill cmitc1, leaving Grendel confirmed as Town but otherwise no more powerful than any other player and cmitc1 dead with no useful information from the action). This would leave them with seven players and lots of swing (theoretically they might lynch Masquerade today and Grendel might shoot another, yielding 6:1; the worst case would be losing immediately if they lynch Town, Grendel shoots Town, and cmitc1 has an unblocked action that targets a Mafia player other than Elyse--most likely BlankFace).

[Dierfire]

N2 actions:

Elyse blocks Grendel (success, Grendel unable to take any action)
BlankFace kills cmitc1 (success, cmitc1 dies)
cmitc1 recruits BBmolla (successful, BBmolla added to Neighborhood, however cmitc1 will die even though BBmolla is Town due to being shot by BlankFace)
Grendel shoots Hoopla (unsuccessful, Hoopla still lives as Grendel was blocked)

[Dierfire]

Ugh, I didn't standardize my PM subject lines for the night results. ChaosOmega received "Mini Normal 1809 Death" and cmitc1 received "Mini Normal 1809 N2 Result" but BBmolla just got "N2 Result" (which is not nearly specific enough).

[Dierfire]

He left a message before he died in the neighborhood to look at kill, he thought kill may be connected with masq because kill was saying the masq wagon was scum motivated

why would a neighbourhood thread be started before the nightkill resolves? this is a ballsy move if you're scum...

Uh oh! Did I use a non-standard version of this role?

I checked the Normal guidelines on the Wiki and I don't see anything that specifically says that my version (Neighborhood PT exists from the beginning of the game, Neighbors are added one by one, reflected in the PM above that passed Normal review) isn't standard, but I suppose that it doesn't specifically say that it is standard either.

Hum...

Well, it passed review, so I guess that it's either within acceptable limits or it's my one allowed variant role.

[Dierfire]

Argh, no, I can't just write it off because cmitc1 died and his role should be public knowledge!

[Dierfire]

All right, so I need a player to ask me to clarify what role cmitc1 had so that I can answer by posting a more complete explanation.
Obviously I can't correct Hoopla without being asked because that is unfair influence.

[Dierfire]

I assume that BBmolla would ask if it became an issue.

[Dierfire]

Looking at the Natural Action Resolution page which is being used for this game, it seems murky whether or not a dying neighbouriser would be able to send a message within its newly created neighbourhood. Looking at the Neighbouriser page specifically, the normal guidelines on that page say:

"They may begin speaking to each other at the end of the Night, or at the beginning of the next Night..."

The above implies that the talking begins at the END of the night, once all the actions have been resolved, which means cmitc1 would be dead. Why would the mod let a dead cmitc1 send molla messages?

"Any players added to a Neighborhood are added at the start of the next day, regardless of whether the Neighborizer lives or not, and their Role Name is not changed."

This implies he still gets added to a neighbourhood though. But I don't see why cmitc1 would have been allowed to have been talking in it already...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah

I really don't want this to ruin the game!

[Dierfire]

MathBlade replaces BlankFace.

I forgot to note here earlier that Wingback replaced Seraphim (who replaced Wake88).