Mini Normal 1854 Mason PT

[Dierfire]

This is the Mason discussion PT. It will remain open at all times, Day Phase and Night Phase, while the game continues.

[Dierfire]

The Masons are Lil Uzi Vert and MisaTange.

[Dierfire]

This thread is now open for discussion.

[MisaTange]

My first (non VT) power role as town in this site! I dunno how to play as Mason (I assume pretending not to know any outside information to guise yourself as a VT). Ahh.

[MisaTange]

I'm probably gonna eventually have to claim in this game so

1. Do I even straight up claim Mason or do I have to be vague about it?
2. If I straight up claim, Town is probably gonna ask me to reveal my partner. Should I??

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hey Misa!

This is my first PR as well so I'm excited to see how I play it especially since it's a town PR and those are a lot harder to play than scum PRs. I'm not sure how to play this role but the fact that we know each other's alignments means we can work together on our scum reads and push them effectively.

I think if you're forced to claim, it's correct to claim mason as even if one of us dies, you and/or me are confirmed town and that puts scum in an awkward position during the night phase.

[MisaTange]

Now that the game is properly(ish??? The topic is unlocked but the title isn't changed accordingly) started, some more things:

1. Feel free to deck me if I make bad plays
2. The wiki article makes me think we don't have a cop (or a strong investigative role like cop), since best case scenario we have two confirmed towns and we'll have a townblock based on mutual townreads. I think this depends on the moderator, but, yeah, thinking out loud...

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm still new myself so I don't even know the good from the bad. I just wouldn't overthink anything.

The recent game I was in had masons and we had a watcher so we might have that here.

[MisaTange]

LUV, do you townread Gamma and Ari as well? I wanna start a townblock at least.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

TR neither right now. TF and Deer seem town.

[Dierfire]

Nachomamma8 replaces MisaTange

[Nachomamma8]

Are we claimed? Anything in particular you think I should know?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah we are claimed. Creeps might have a potential PR.

[Nachomamma8]

Come vote Fitz with me!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I thought he was pretty town last time, let me reread lol

[Nachomamma8]

Are you all caught up? What are your reads?

[Nachomamma8]

And even if you ignore me I'll probably do my best to get my reads in full in this thread before I'm taken out by that dark demon they call Death; my goal is to develop about 5 strong strong townreads overnight that I would be defending like hell and then 2 decent ideas for scum picks.

[Nachomamma8]

But it'd be more fun to do our solving together like good mason buddies would

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not ignoring, just been disinterested. I'll catch up sometime tonight.

[Nachomamma8]

I will too!

[Nachomamma8]

Sorry for the delay, but I am here. I'll try to finish catching up the rest of the way right now and then post a consolidated reads list.

[Nachomamma8]

Creeps's 433 is a townread for me; I can completely understand why a new player wouldn't immediately understand that claimed masons = town, and I expect a scumpartner would have explained that to him in scumchat unless scumchat was completely dead (which is possible, but). We can assume scum have daychat since we have daychat. I also think that if Creeps were scum he would back off you more once you claimed masons; scum tend to get shy scumreading someone who is townread by a lot of people but town don't.

Gamma's suggestions to PL creeps in 435 is misguided, but I don't think that it's scummy. I don't often see scum suggesting to policy lynch players for reasons like that, but I think that it should be emphasized that policy lynches are useless in most situations; it's much better that we lynch who we think is scum and end the game before it comes to LyLo than it is to lynch someone because we think they will be a danger to town down the road (it silences strong town voices and means they have less impact on the game overall, sometimes players who seem like liabilities early can clear themselves later, etc).

@Deers's 441: I don't like how Deers says that there isn't a need to reread because of Creeps didn't answer his questions, but I guess I can see the perspective where Deers would be doing something like that if he were town. If I was alive tomorrow, I'd probably question him on it.

I like the conviction behind Creeps's 442 although I suppose that isn't a particularly compelling argument in general.

[Nachomamma8]

Eric's 451 seems town as hell; very rarely do I see scum announcing to the thread that they are lurking so people leave them alone.

This FrankJaeger post is yet another place where he shows he's active enough to avoid prods, but not yet active enough to play the game. I find a huge disparity between his play here and his play in the recently completed game Newbie 1744; I understand that he's a lot busier than he was in that game, but his complete lack of any thoughts or pushes when he does have time seems more intentional and less "I'm just busy!". He is probably my preferred lynch for tomorrow based on that disparity alone.

To Aristophanes's 460:
I agree that his fixation on Deers's meta is not particularly productive; however, the perspective that you seem to be taking here that it is scummy is incorrect. I find the fact that he did that research on his own to be pretty townie, actually, while the actual gain of it for Creeps as town is small, it's something he obviously believes in and I don't think that there's any reason for him to look up who Deers was as scum.

To Hiraki's 464:
To the bet of my understanding, Fitz's attack about "one scum in 4 is useless" was based on Io's opening post; no one went "on and on" about it, so that's a misrep; because the entire point of his argument here was the persistence of the bad argument, it's a bad point. I don't remember where people were criticizing fitz for townreading people who criticized masons but it wasn't the brunt of the case against him. I think that TF's approach here was pretty reasonable.

I don't understand the problems you have with Gamma in this post.

As a whole, though, I really like this post; if Hiraki was scum in this situation and trying to get cred for bussing a partner, it doesn't make sense to discredit the other people on the wagon who are also scumreading fitz; I find the fact that he wanted to go for a policy lynch over an actual scumread to be silly (and would in general like it explained) but at the end of the day the post still reads town.

[Nachomamma8]

This post by Eric is also, strangely enough, a point towards Hiraki being town. If Hiraki was white knighting Eric against everyone that would lynch him, I expect he'd do so in a way where he was likely to gain allies on it; taking out the piece where Eric is lying about being experienced and is stupid would be pretty highly likely to make him townread Hiraki to no end and isn't something that's likely to get him any friends elsewhere.

I think that Fitz's posts towards TwoFace bump TwoFace up to the "locktown" tier; I don't really see the two going at it as persistently as they did when A) the game is inactive as hell, so it wouldn't be particularly difficult for them to strongarm mislynches through together, and B) it's not like any of them was taking any significant heat that wasn't guided by the other.

This attack in Vedith's 497 is pretty terrible, considering the crux of it is "Creeps is using not having an avatar to scum advantage", which is... questionable? Terrifyingly bad?

512 is also misrepping TwoFace's post in a very big way.

Can't emphasize how dumb Gamma's "Creeps is a liability because he distrusts the masons!" point is - we are getting kill long before LyLo regardless of who the scumteam is.

Vedith starts looking a bit better once he starts posting more; nothing in particular that looks awesome, but he looks better. Don't like Deers doing nothing but prodding along the Creeps wagon with the "he still hasn't answered my question!" bit.

[Nachomamma8]

Deers's read on Creeps goes from scumread to policy lynch in 626, which is strange and not very comforting.

Vedith calling out Frank is a good look for him.