SU2 - ALMOST50, RR, & THEFUZZYLOGIC99 ALLIANCE

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SU2 - ALMOST50, RR, & THEFUZZYLOGIC99 ALLIANCE

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:52 pm

Post by Varsoon »

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Welcome to your Season Finale (Episode 8) Alliance Neighborhood.
So long as the Stress is at +2 or higher, all members of your alliance may use their abilities as if it were the Season Finale.
On the Season Finale, all abilities used by members of your alliance can not fail.
You may chat here at any time due to this being a Season Final Alliance.
Your members include:

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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:05 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

Yo all.

Fuzzy, did you shoot SS last night?
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:12 pm

Post by Almost50 »

Hi, Cerb. Gimme 5 min to go over some stuff (off site) and we can talk afterwards

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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:32 pm

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

No/.... I thought I was to wait and not vig anyone so I didn't.

I thought about it but I said I was not going to kill anyone so decided to keep my promise. TBH I am a little weary of shooting S_S as town seems to be tunneling town and than killing them. I think paranoia has got to me.

I think there was atlest one scum on the Creature wagon yesterday if not both. ( I am assuming there is two left based on the number of rubies) I will be gone for an hour or so.... Have to work out,
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:09 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

Okay, that's fine. If you weren't going to shoot someone then (imo) you should have shot at farside, just to push her towards the win con thing and force her to either achieve it and prove that she can win without hurting town, or prove that she's lying, but whatever, what's done is done. I'll look at the wagon.

Do you have any thoughts on who is most likely scum on the wagon?

My first thought for today is that we should use it to remove SS and Farside, one lynched and one shot, and neither one should be capable of escaping if we hammer the slot that we lynch.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:38 pm

Post by Almost50 »

First things first: The current running event.. is it yours?

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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:00 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

Nope.

I assume it belongs the the gems. The title of the event is the title of a song which is song primarily by Steven, but all the gems, and only gems, have a line or two in it.

Here it is, actually:
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:00 am

Post by Cerberus v666 »

I'm pretty confused by grapes right now, actually.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:03 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

Ego for the hydra.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:06 pm

Post by Drixx »

Listen up ... both of you. This is fucking silly and the sort of shit that could cost us the game, despite the amount of effort to get to such a strong position. I'm going to talk to you both separately and I want you both to talk to ME until you understand why you're both logically wrong and how you're going to help us make sure that this game doesn't somehow get handed to scum.

Firstly, you both need to realize that there may be 3 scum alive. We believe it's 2 scum and that Farside is a 3rd party incompatible win condition, but it could be 3 scum. That's the worst case scenario we talked with Random about yesterday and he checked our logic. I can lay the whole thing out, but I think you should both get it with just this: as far as we understand the setup, this game began with 25 players and 9-11 slots who could never be mislynched (gems in the masonry, Steven, Mastin, Titus, another townie getting Titus' IC ability copied to them, a beach-a-palooza clear) and another that should not have been (Kraska). We also have absurd protective power (the scum have fewer nights with kills than without and we're on day 8). That should properly adjust your expectations for how big the scum team should be, and with Shadow literally scum claiming (but also previously being mod confirmed as having no abilities), there's even more reason to expect a larger scum team than would normally be considered balanced.

So first you both need to realize that what you're doing is literally what scum want you to do. So stop it.

@Fuzzy:
A50 is town. The things that A50 knew and passed on to us so that we could get them to the gems and Mastin make it absurd to believe that A50 is scum. There's like three gigantic mistakes the scum team made that would have been easily avoided with the knowledge he had, most glaringly obvious of which is having Skybird in alliance with Xykfu and pushing stress to where Xykfu could kill her. A50 knew about that. In fact ... A50 as scum would mean Skybird probably would never even have BEEN in that alliance to begin with. A50 would have to be gamethrowing to be scum.

@A50:
Fuzzy is almost certainly town. The whole reason we wanted to have him allied with you today was to clear him. He didn't shoot last night because WE proposed a specific plan and others decided to ignore us even though we've been consistently right and consistently game solving all game. We wanted him empowered because we wanted nothing to prevent him shooting or be able to be an excuse. Either he proves the vig shot or he has some explaining to do. Since the firebringer kill has no other posited source, we're inclined to believe that he'll shoot just fine.


Now hopefully that will get you two to back off of each other and talk to me. If you're not convinced, ask questions and we'll be as thorough as necessary.


Now ... as for the vig shot to clear yourself, Fuzzy, The person you need to be shooting tonight is Farside. I will make the case for you as thoroughly as you need. I don't recall if you played in SaGa Frontier, but at this point I would bet my left nut that Farside is a 3rd party and I would not be comfortable betting anything at all that she can win in some way that won't screw us. Again ... I'll go through it in detail if you like, but all you really have to do is look at her today like 3 or 4 times already trying to push the narrative that we had done or said something which we hadn't. She's fighting for her 3rd party wincon and she knows I'm not ever going to stop. She's caught only there's too many distractions and she's getting away with it.

I would prefer that we lynch Farside today because our ability would let us prevent her from escaping the lynch and you could simply shoot shadow who is outed scum who has also been confirmed to have no abilities. The mess of implosion going on in the main thread right now just makes me want to shake people, so instead of doing that and accomplishing nothing, we can just adjust around stupidity and get this win finished off.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:25 pm

Post by Almost50 »

I'll follow whatever plan you propose. If you want far lynched today rally up for it and I'm in. TFL shoots Shadow tonight. I get to check on grapes (just about the only slot not yet confirmed and and currently not bubbled). If the Gems decide to release Shiro before the end of the day though I would check on him instead.

Alternatively, we follow MoI's plan (that IS going to cost us the game), and we lynch Shadow. TFL shoots me, and I don't really care what happens afterwards.

I still don't see why we should lynch someone with no abilities even if they ARE conf.Scum over people who are potentially much more dangerous if they're scum unless we believe we are in LyLo/MyLo already. Shadow should be the lynch we fall back on when we're cornered. Otherwise we have other means to neutralize him AND gain another lynch and/or piece of info.

Shooting me at the night I'm having my check is pretty stupid though, and having it announced in the thread is even more stupid. At least let the scum shoot me rather than know they can shoot elsewhere and still be safe from my check.

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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:29 am

Post by Almost50 »

Hey, guys. Sorry if I got too emotional out there, I know it's just a game and all, but it's quite frustrating to be scum read for speaking my mind. It feels like some players want it there way or no way, and can't even stand someone thinking for their own. That just sucks.

Anyway, I will submit my action and alliance choice (RR) as I would do normally, so -in my own eyes- I have done everything I can to help the Town win. I will then step aside for a while with this account making way for the hydra with NC to play more games. At least when I get emotional I'd have them to vent out to in the hydra PT.

Once again. I do apologize for the ramping rage.

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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:50 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

@Varsoon: if someone in here used a night action and was roleblocked tonight, with nothing else changing im the game state including our membership in this alliance, what would occur?
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:02 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 12, Reasonably Rational wrote:
@Varsoon: if someone in here used a night action and was roleblocked tonight, with nothing else changing im the game state including our membership in this alliance, what would occur?
It highly depends on the wording of all roles and abilities involved.

If you are asking about the 'all abilities used by members of your alliance can not fail' aspect of this alliance--this means that any abilities used by members of this alliance have increased priority. Increased priority actions can only be stopped by similarly increased priority actions.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:47 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

Okay, so fuzzy, what did you ask Varsoon before?

The questions you should have asked were:

"If I shoot at someone, and no effect protects them or interferes with my action, and stress is at NOT at +3 or greater, what will happen?"

And

"If I shoot at someone and stress is +3 and they are BP, what will happen? How about protected by a doctor or bodyguard? How about if I'm roleblocked or redirected? In all cases, assume that there are no special modifiers for these effects."

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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:49 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

I'm like 99% you just have a regular vig shot THAT WILL NEVER FAIL unless some other roles effect interferes with it.

That means the +3 thing just means you get to ignore the parts of other roles effects that could affect. I would assume a BP would still stop you, but a reflexive roleblock, a normal roleblocl, redirection, or doctor protection on the target would all be bypassed by you, barring enhanced priority on the part of the other actions.

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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:58 pm

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

This is what I understood from Vasoon response to me which was similar to what he posted here.

I guess I could kill a BP but it seems unlikely ....... Far seems like she is BP.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:01 pm

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

if I was designing a third party survivor I would prob do something similar to Fars ability. This is of course playing out guess the Mod a bit
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:27 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

Farside isn't BP. She roleblocks anyone who targets her. At least, that's what she told us. If she is outright BP in addition to that roleblock ascetic thing, then she's lied to us...again.

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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Post by Drixx »

Her power set screams third party with a self-interested win condition. Her play says the same thing.

Please check how SaGa Frontier ended to understand why Cerb and I have been trying to force her to be completely exposed and taken out before we kill the last scum and then Farside laughs at us as it's game over but only she wins.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:24 pm

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

Fine I shoot Far....at this point I don't care. I kinda wish this game was over. Obvious town does not care about winning or we be trying to kill the last two scum.....so whatever
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:41 pm

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

wow that is a messed up game......... I am still not sure if I can even kill her though.......
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:43 pm

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

part of me wonders if Vasoon would use the same trick twice,,,,,,,,,, I guess its possible,,but if I agree w should be worried about it ending like Saga
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:44 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

Because I refuse to waste the post that got cut off by the thread lock:
In post 11473, mastin2 wrote:
In post 11419, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:I am so confused at this point...I was sure A50 was scum but I am not so sure anymore
To simplify: you have two kill choices--RR or Almost50. Both are making egregious plays uncharacteristic of their towngames. The main thing to decide is which you think is more likely to be motivated by being scum.

Now, I know Almost50 can get crazy and insane as town.
I know RR shouldn't get crazy/insane as town.

For that reason, I lean towards RR being the scum of the two.
But both are pretty damn bad.
Mastin, simply put: you're wrong. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of our town game, perhaps because you weren't in Space Dandy 2, and it usually doesn't come up because most games don't have 11 slots that were never going to be lynched.

There's a flow chart:

1) Ensure town can not lose during the night. If this is the case, move on to 2.
2) Ensure town wins the game 100% of the time in the number of lynches left before most likely lylo. If this isn't possible, go to 3.
3) Get town as close as possible to 100% in that same time frame.

Right now we're still on 1, because the game is incredibly stupid and refused to deal with farside at any earlier point.

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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:12 pm

Post by Almost50 »

RR, who are you allying with next? Not sure I want to ally with far anyway.

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