The Resistance #2 - 5P Game
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Mathdino Survivor
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ideal for the first mission is finding 2 players who won't sabotage even if they're scum
obviously best case scenario is finding 2 town
also helps because if spies are on the first mission people will inherently trust those 2 players more and inevitably get betrayed by them later
SO
optimal first mission is me (who can obvtown as town by gamesolving) and someone who, as a spy, would be afraid of 1v1ing me for the next 4 rounds
VOTE: Mathdino, TheGoldenParadox
sheep this-
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Mathdino Survivor
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so for the record i don't actually think paradox is town
and his vote there super pinged me
that said the entire point was to come up with a group that wouldn't sabotage even as town so in that sense we succeeded
i'm not sure where to go from here. the 3rd mission is a gimme. outside of that, we have 3 chances to find the correct town out of 10 possibles.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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my best guess right now is mathdino/irrelephant/iconeum
that said, one possible solution is purposefully trying to put both scum on the mission and watching for any communication (given no daytalk)-
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Mathdino Survivor
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the mechanics of the IRL game are really just a formality
more fundamentally it's just "you need 3 players to agree to send a team on a mission", which is pretty similar to voting mechanics in mafia
the reason i don't use mission leader and simultaneous yes/no voting is because that makes it take an incredible amount of time for a forum game
and your question applies to the game of mafia in general
the point is to find town and find scum and vote for town
who's town-
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Mathdino Survivor
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why the fuck do you guys think paradox is town-
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Mathdino Survivor
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okay but if this mission fails with paradox on it then it's back to "DID ONE OF MATH/PARADOX PASS THE FIRST MISSION AND FRAME THE NEW GUY OR IS IT JUST THE NEW GUY"
i would personally gain more information with other people on it because i already believe paradox is scum-
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Mathdino Survivor
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also you two apparently agree with each other while voting for a team that includes paradox/me, thus excluding the other one of you
like from your POVs the other one should be a scumread
it's a weird game lol
i very much think irrelephant is town right now pending more posting-
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Mathdino Survivor
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this team has 2 scum on itIn post 38, BuJaber wrote:The irony is you make me want to vote for me, icon and paradox but I don't think gut should determine this mission. That comes later when you need to decide who is lying when people inevitable start accusing each other of sabotaging.
does anyone wanna try it lol-
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Mathdino Survivor
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if anyone says anything about who passes or fails a mission then that's obviously a spyclaim
VOTE: Bujaber, Iconeum, Paradox
let's do it for the meme of 2 sabotages
that said, i'm wondering though
we get 3 shots at finding all 3 town this game
if we do this, even if we have 2 spies on the mission (betting the game on irrelephant/mathdino mutual townread), and even if they both sabotage, that gives us 2 chances to find the 1 town among 3
if we want to bet the game on irrelephant/mathdino town, we could just try all 3 of them on all the 3 person missions
thoughts?-
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Mathdino Survivor
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if anyone says anything to imply that they would be the ones to pass/sabotage a mission so that their spy buddy knows what to do, we should treat that as a full on spyclaim
even things like "i'll pass this mission" or "if someone sabotages, it's probably [x]" or "i think [buddy] is going to pass this"
there's a lot of hidden ways to communicate in resistance-
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Mathdino Survivor
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doing that produces a 66% winrate lol
hunting for 2 town produces something significantly lower-
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Mathdino Survivor
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yeah no
if i'm to go with a team without me there's no way i'm putting irrelephant on
either me and elephant both or neither of us at all-
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Mathdino Survivor
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not gonna get bogged down in theory here
trying to get 2 spies to sabotage does work with 5p, and can clear 2 town instantly
as scum i wouldn't lie about that unless it benefited me strategically to fake trying to put 2 spies on the mission (i.e. i'm scum with one of those 3)
so while me wanting those 3 is consistent with me being a spy in itself
my play is still town, as is the fact that proposing this helps solve the game FMPOV
now on the other hand i could just bet the game entirely on elephant being town-
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Mathdino Survivor
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like, bujaber, i get what you're saying here, but you're also taking a naive/surface-level approach to the game
0th level (VI): vote for whoever!
paradox once voted for 3 person teams without him on them on marathon weekend and got crucified. he wasn't thinking.
this is obviously not me, you know i don't do shit like that lol
1st level (surface): i must go on all missions and people who don't put themselves on missions are scum!
this is the classic way to play.
this is also a setup/way of playing i would consider scumsided without F2F tells.
2nd level (crazy idea guys): what if we put both spies on the mission and try to fish for double sabotage or double pass?
used to think this was crazy
then did it IRL
it works if and only if the spies have no clear hints to each other, which unfortunately they often do
anyway point is you're seeing me as a spy under 1st level play/thinking
i guess what i'm trying to say is
i'm playin fuckin 4D chess here-
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Mathdino Survivor
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you can disagree, that's fine
if you end up voting for a team that you're on that you think is all town (due to scumreading me)
and i happen to think both spies are on it, i'll auto-hammer it
we can disagree on theory and still agree on the specific mission
the flaw right now is that you seem to be reading me based on setup spec that you disagree with.
i don't fake setup spec as scum. my sig is probably the funniest example of people scumreading me for suggesting "optimal strategies".
you may think that what i'm doing is pro-scum but that would make me wrong, not scum.
so what are you scumreading me for? do you think i'm aware my strategy is shit and i'm pushing something that will fail? or do you think that i'm just faking what town-me would propose in this situation?
if the former, you're reading surface level like i said. if the latter, then you need much more of a case to argue "mathdino is faking his towngame to a T and this makes him scum".
think about this sentence and get back to meIn post 54, BuJaber wrote:Also you supposedly wanting to put both spies in the mission still does't explain why you are not putting yourself in there.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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sounds good!
VOTE: Mathdino, Irrelephant, Bujaber-
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Mathdino Survivor
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wait no that's inconsistent
UNVOTE:
elephant solve bujaber/iconeum alignments for me pls-
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Mathdino Survivor
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paradox, this post is overexplainy and a bit LAMISTyIn post 13, TheGoldenParadox wrote:that's great since I know i'm town and dino is probably town from that first post i'm gonna sheep that
VOTE: MD, TGP
i assumed D1 that scum would jump at the chance for some juicy towncred
i get the sense that i'm gonna have to explain like every single thing i do lol
read between the linessss-
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Mathdino Survivor
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this might actually be correctIn post 81, TheGoldenParadox wrote:I'm really sorry.
I can't believe I forgot about this game, I knew there was a nagging feeling at the back of my mind.
Philosophically I think the best way to win the game is to get either an all-town team or two scum one town team, I know I'm town, and I see Dino and Elephant as aligned together, so
VOTE: TGP, MD, I11
worth nothing that no matter what if bujaber or iconeum is scum, they've both proposed teams with 2 scum on them
unless irrelephant is scum
i don't know what to make of that-
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Mathdino Survivor
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because i really don't understand why you're townreading bujaber-
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Mathdino Survivor
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this is actually a farce lol
what the fuck are you guys townreading about paradox i can't even
i literally designed that first mission so it would be a pass regardless of paradox's alignment
why would i succeed the first mission only to 1v1 paradox and refuse to let him on future missions anyway-
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Mathdino Survivor
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scum-me with this strategy just fails the first mission knowing i was gonna 1v1 the other member of the first mission anywayIn post 99, Mathdino wrote:this is actually a farce lol
what the fuck are you guys townreading about paradox i can't even
i literally designed that first mission so it would be a pass regardless of paradox's alignment
why would i succeed the first mission only to 1v1 paradox and refuse to let him on future missions anyway-
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Mathdino Survivor
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it means
that if i were scum
the first mission would have been a failure
because no one actually gives a shit about towncred from the people who went on the first mission
your reads make 0 sense with your proposed teams
bujaber is top scumread
i'm primarily iffy on iconeum as a result
paradox was legit a "his first post was scummy and he hasn't done shit since then" read-
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Mathdino Survivor
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the fuck?In post 108, BuJaber wrote:I accept that his inactivity could be a valid reason for scumreading him but you scumread him way before that. You went in with the idea.
inactivity is the least valid reason for scumreading him
i scumread him for being weird as fuck in his first post
i took him on the mission because i knew scum-him would never sabotage if he was up against town-me
every single time i've been in a game with paradox as either alignment i've won a 1v1 with him (or just mislynched him straight up). every. game.
that's why i specifically chose someone who would be afraid of me-
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Mathdino Survivor
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nah
you don't get to play an incredibly surface level game and then deny the extra information i have that can be used to generate reads
if he's scum, there's no way for you/iconeum/irrelephant to know which between me/paradox is actually scum
also, i specifically worded every post to not even have a possible interpretation of telling who to pass and who to sabotage, specifically so all-pass missions can't be used against me
you seem more focused on possibilities than probabilities-
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Mathdino Survivor
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like you don't seem to understand that "mathdino proving to you he's not brain dead" is not alignment indicative for me
i could talk to you all day about logic for mission 3 and be exactly as convincing as i want as scum
but logic isn't alignment indicative and neither is effort
and neither are general opinions on resistance strategy
yet you've managed to toss away the useful info for getting reads while taking into account the useless-
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Mathdino Survivor
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how does this help anythingIn post 114, BuJaber wrote:Icon and TGP give this a chance.. math has ignored my step by step process of figuring out if math/tgp is 0, 1 or 2 scum. Don't go on a mission with him. Until he agrees to math/tgp/buj I don't agree to any mission he is on.
i think you're scum
if there's 1 fail (which there almost certainly will be)
how does town figure this one out between 3 possible spies-
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Mathdino Survivor
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ummmMMMMM
if mission 2 fails with paradox/math/bujaber
and then paradox/math somehow gets sent on mission 3 (something that i would not approve of)
and THAT fails
then that makes lylo on mission 4, where town has a 25% chance of guessing correctly between math/paradox and irrelephant/iconeum
your strategy is lowkey selfish
it doesn't work here because lack of simultaneous voting-
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Mathdino Survivor
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bujaber, the first mission is most of the time completely meaningless
you could pick any 2 players to be the given mission 3 fallback option
there's no actual reason to send math/paradox and especially not if you don't think we're both town
now i can argue that as a spy i would've failed the mission
i don't think paradox can really argue that, so i'm nullreading him at best and scumreading him because i have stronger townreads elsewhere
your strategy just seems completely independent of reads and i don't get that-
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Mathdino Survivor
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mission 1 IS meaningless for the entire game though that's the point i'm trying to make-
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Mathdino Survivor
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what's your read on bujaber
i disagree with him on like everything but i guess i'm 'starting to see where his town self is coming from-
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Mathdino Survivor
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...if mission 2 passes then we've essentially won already-
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Mathdino Survivor
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what possible scumteams are you seeing
because it seems almost certain that at least one scum has proposed a mission with themselves and their partner-
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Mathdino Survivor
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haha i only won spyfall because i figured out the location on page 2
i was playing my towngame after that
i want more content from paradox-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Paradox is correct from his pov
Idk if that makes me suspect him more or less xD
I can't really fault him like I fault Buj/icon haha-
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Mathdino Survivor
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thus far the only team consistent with the actual votes is bujaber/irrelephant-
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Mathdino Survivor
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this might've been correct the whole time actually
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Mathdino Survivor
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VOTE: Iconeum, Mathdino, TheGoldenParadox
this is the only mission that's consistent by the votes if we go on the assumption that scum will not put the entire scumteam on the mission
open to being convinced otherwise-
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Mathdino Survivor
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wow gottem
dat VCA tho-
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Mathdino Survivor
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That's interesting and is something I'd like to discuss in the Discussion thread.
It's actually fairly well accepted right now that on the mafia side of things, forum mafia is significantly more scumsided than face-to-face, because ability to reread the thread is nowhere near as good as being able to read your friends' faces. So the loss of the leader mechanic (which was dropped due to difficulty of implementation), which I'm not sure I'd call scumsided, is 'balanced' by the newfound ability to do VCA.
If you look at the Resistance game I modded, the entire scumteam basically continually fucked VCA by voting each other onto teams and signaling or just passing missions they didn't have to. Town didn't stand a chance at all.
But, that game was 7p and this is 5p. So balance is definitely a discussion that should be had.
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