The Mafiascum World of Warcraft Thread

[JDodge]

I have decided to succumb to peer pressure and look at joining you guys (prior lack of wow experience aside from 10 day trials aside) as soon as I can swing the money; anything I should know before I jump head-first into the icy, shark-infested waters of MMOland, and do you guys mind having a complete WoW newb along with you for whatever-it-may-be? Also, would my lack of (until late March, assuming I stay hooked) WoTLK and Cata cause problems for you guys?

[JDodge]

We don't have any warriors AFAIK, and I think our druid/shaman are also pretty low leveled. I'd need to check hunter, since ours basically doesn't really play anymore (friend from RL)

I could make a hunter if we need one, it sounds interesting. I don't think I'd make a good tank, though, so warrior is probably out. I'd probably prefer to play a DPS class, so whatever we need on that I'm willing to go for.

[JDodge]

Warriors can DPS too, not just tank. DPS warriors are dual wielders IIRC.

But they are subject to WARRIORS ARE TANKS ALWAYS-itis quite a bit from what I've heard.

[JDodge]

bought and installing now!

[JDodge]

realID is auralhallucination@gmail.com

going to roll a hunter as soon as i get the time to start out

[JDodge]

Yeah, we might be at a point where we could get there in our own guild anyway.

Things came around to this tonight in a chat with myself, Cay, dram, Pie, and Nik - I remember there being some concern about guild rewards and the whole not having them thing, but I believe we came to a general consensus (with dram noting that he didn't really care either way) that the lack of them was greatly outweighed by having a group, and that if need be we could branch out with recruiting later on. I suggested that we sort of put it to the people who play with us regularly, so any sort of yes/no on whether or not you guys would be interested would be nice.

[JDodge]

Right then, since everyone seems to agree that we need a guild, we should probably start hammering out the details. The only things I can think of off the top of my head are name (obv) and guild leader - I think we're all able to cooperate to enough of a degree that it won't matter who the leader is, so I think it'd mostly end up being a functionary position more than anything (for now at least, unless we decide we should recruit from outside MS at some point later on). Ideally the person we pick would be trustworthy and fairly active.

[JDodge]

i think it'd be better for long-term recruiting and our own sanity if we sort of distance ourselves from the whole

lynching

thing

also, i don't want it to seem like i'm taunting people with oh my god you suck because it's my guild tag

[JDodge]

i'm very meh on the whole OMGWS idea, it seems extraordinarily ham-handed

[JDodge]

<3 <3 <3 +15% to arcane shot and concussive shot duration up to 6 sec

[JDodge]

also: good god no to LCPP, still extraordinarily meh on OMGWS

would like non-confirmed masons were we to drop the non-confirmed, perhaps unconfirmed might work better, but i think just masons is a good mix of mafia-related and accessible; i also kind of like confirmed innocents, same reason as masons

[JDodge]

like mo, hate law of averages because i'm not enough of a nerd for it

[JDodge]

Pfft. I'm the only addict.. and Dram..

Everyone else seems fairly casual (casual to me is less than 20 hours a week)

>.>
<.<

You'd fit right in

yeeeeeeeeah i see how it is

I wont be on much this week due to midterms and studying for said exams. next week however is sprrriiiiiiiiiing break! woooooo!

And you are going to WoW on Spring Break? Don't you American kids go to like Daytona Beach or something?

on behalf of the citizens of the daytona beach metro area, go away we don't want any more tourists

[JDodge]

BM Hunter buffed.

The buff is to Aspect of the Hawk, which every hunter has (and uses at most all times already), so it's less a buff to BM and more a buff to

every

hunter.

[JDodge]

BM Hunter buffed.

The buff is to Aspect of the Hawk, which every hunter has (and uses at most all times already), so it's less a buff to BM and more a buff to

every

hunter.

Why is Blizz buffing hunters?

I'm holding out hope that Blizzard

did

just randomly decide to buff one of my abilities (which is essentially a passive buff that is more useful than the other aspects except in situations where you need a high nature resistance or you need to run really really fast) by over three times what it did before, and that this isn't some cruel, sick joke. Or a typo.

[JDodge]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/218 ... b-are-back!

I believe that should give a clearer explanation for some of the changes. For example, shamans don't have Fire Nova pulse from the totem, and cause enemies affected by flame shock to explode. Instead, the target with flame shock on it is the source of the fire nova. In addition, fire mages are actually getting a nerf (I would be quite surprised if the second highest average dps spec was getting a buff). The proc used to be off of any spell, periodic or non-periodic. The periodic component is being removed.

This is the source for the above link, direct from Blizzard:

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1604 ... oming-soon

Unfortunately for Jdodge, I see no mention of a change to aspect of the hawk.

Good. That shit would have been very, very OP.

[JDodge]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2259389

Jdodge should have a look at that. The reason it wasn't in the patch notes is apparently because the aspect of the hawk change is already active in the hotfixes.

Aimed Shot damage has been decreased to approximately 160% weapon damage (at level 80+), down from 200%.

makes me a sad panda

[JDodge]

It's bizarre how you guys get hacked - my battle.net account got hacked when it was just SC2 and it locked itself automatically before they could do anything because the system thought the fact that some guy in China was trying to play Starcraft was suspicious.

[JDodge]

i have begun my temporary exile now that my subscription has run out; i'll be back in about 2 weeks when things are less hectic

[JDodge]

i too am apparently not important enough for the opening post

[JDodge]

i too am apparently not important enough for the opening post

[JDodge]

Tans abandoned us.

Asswipe.

did he take all his stuff from the guild bank with him?

cause if not i'd hardly call him an asswipe, and even if he did i'd hardly call him an asswipe

same thing for the vent server

[JDodge]

No I left everything I even told reck I'd still tank for modus I just wanted to join a guild that was starting and had the people to run 10/25 man raids

so

essentially our problem here is that tans wanted something else from the guild, and still left a whole ton of shit for us and agreed to still tank for us, thus he is an asswipe

[JDodge]

pessimism: either you're right, or you get a pleasant surprise!

[JDodge]

it seems to the outside observer that tans decided to move on, probably did so on the server less than gracefully, and now reck (and to an extent dram) is being a cunt about it

is this a fair summary of events

because it's getting kind of annoying and i don't want to when i log back in on sunday just have to listen to people bitching about drama shit all day

[JDodge]

First off, you were talking about us not having enough guildies to raid, to which I pointed out that we're progressing and will soon have 6-7 people at level 85. You THEN went on to bring up "not enough achievements", and that is when I said "Who cares about achievements?". Also, for us "not getting achievements", or "not caring about achievements", you should probably tell BBM to stop doing battlegrounds for the sole purpose of getting all the Slayer achievements, and you should probably tell dram/Kai/BBM to stop wasting time running every old world heroic and every expansion heroic in order to get the guild run achievements for those, and you should probably tell everyone else that leveling up isn't doing enough to contribute to the guild achievements.

he clearly wanted to do raids rightright now, which i will agree is a bit impatient

however i don't see how your achievement point is a counter to his

We did build this guild. Not everyone is officers yet because we have like eight fucking members total, so if we make everyone officers and then start recruiting, how is that going to fucking look?

right, but we haven't started recruiting and so your excuse is kind of bullshit - i imagine when we start recruiting, we'll settle on a sort of guild structure, which means it doesn't necessarily matter right now who's an officer and who isn't

OH AND REGARDING ALL THE SHIT ABOUT US TEASING YOU
Seriously, don't dish it out if you can't take it. You flung so much shit at everyone, especially towards me. I get it, I can take some ribbing, and I took it all in good stride. Then the first time Kai & BBM start teasing you about your inability to tank, you flip a shit and leave the guild. Then, after you come back, you continue with the ribbing, so I continue with poking fun via MotD and guild notes.

am i the only one who remembers the whole MotD thing being

before

he quit the first time

The fact of the matter is that you left behind a group of people who I *thought* you were friendly with (hell, Brock sits back a lot and go 'Okay, I like tans') because we weren't "progressing" fast enough for you. Sorry for flipping like I did... and if you had a problem with the MotD and officer notes, fucking tell me it's actually bothering you instead of throwing a hissy fit. You pulled Thans because you wanted to raid, then you showed up and pulled Tans because "this guild is boring me so much I actually started leveling an alt over the weekend". Then... we see you on the alt daily, still leveling it. Guess that other guild wasn't quite exciting enough?

the "i thought we were friends" excuse is kind of bullshit here, if he hated us:

A) he wouldn't have left everything he did
B) he wouldn't be agreeing to continue tanking for us
C) he wouldn't have bought Cay that extra month when she almost ran out
D) he wouldn't have bought me WotLK out of the blue for no real discernible reason

tans is/was, by far, probably the single most monetarily (in terms of real world currency at least, not sure on the current gold:usd rate to compare fully) invested in the guild, and seems like the person who was most invested in the progress of the guild as a whole

i think that if he had decided to leave, we should have accepted that gracefully instead of acting like a bunch of 2 year olds over it for no discernible reason whatsoever

[JDodge]

right, but we haven't started recruiting and so your excuse is kind of bullshit - i imagine when we start recruiting, we'll settle on a sort of guild structure, which means it doesn't necessarily matter right now who's an officer and who isn't

Exactly.

What does it matter who's an officer and who isn't if we're not recruiting?

i would say that argument would be less bullshit were it not for the increased privileges re: guild bank, etc that officers and etc are generally extended as part of the default guild setup

out of curiosity reck, who exactly have been made officers within the guild and who haven't? and what sort of privilege setup do you have set for them?

I don't have a problem with tans leaving, per se, I just feel like it was kinda bullshit that he left because "we weren't progressing fast enough". Sounded really fucking elitist for a goddamn MMORPG.

Right, it was really fucking elitist of him to leave in order to get the sort of thing he wants out of a "goddamn MMORPG". It was really fucking elitist of him to agree to keep tanking for us, leave all the stuff in the guild bank, help people out with paying for the game itself so we could be at full strength, and provide us with the vent server.

[JDodge]

Honestly, I don't see any reason for officers in a guild the size of ours. You don't exactly need structure for the 8 people that play in the guild. We can all invite, we can all change public notes. What else do you want to do for fucks sake?

the issue i have is with the innate privilege structure - the one where we can't see if people above/below us are getting perks we aren't

if we can all invite, there is no reason to have any officers

if we can't, there is reason to either change that or have officers

if we can and there are officers, what do they get that we don't

if we can't and there are officers, what else do they get that we don't

[JDodge]

There's a special chat for officers and officer notes. AKA: Nothing of use to anyone but those who give more than two fucks about useless shit.

there's also the thing of increased guild bank privileges

you see, i can only make 3 withdrawals per tab per day, but stuff like that can be changed with permission masks

i'd also argue that giving certain members of the guild a sort of private clubhouse within the guild itself is just as if not more worrying in the long-term as well

[JDodge]

We started recruiting tonight FYI.

was any sort of actual structure for the guild and whatnot decided upon or are we just jumping in head-first without thinking things through

[JDodge]

As no.1 contributor to the guild exp-wise (IN YOUR FACE BBM!) I approve of this.

i was #3 or some insane thing like that for the week or so after i first started playing, which i thought was pretty funny

less than a day and a half before i should be able to join you guys again!

I will start promoting old members to veterans and initiates to members as we get more initiates. I'm looking at, in the future, having all the MS.net players be Veterans with a whole slew of recruits to fill our member/initiate slots. I'm thinking there should some sort of standard for contribution to the guild, i.e., doing a certain amount of guild runs in instances/heroics, or contribution to the guild bank, or helping with questing, or something to that nature.

i think our next step needs to be to figure out what sort of a guild we want to be in the long-term

[JDodge]

As far as what kind of guild we want to be, I'd say for now we should focus on leveling/PvE with instances/heroics, and once we're at the point where we have the members for raiding, we can set up some sort of raiding structure. It'll be a long time before we can do 25-mans, but it shouldn't take us too long to do 10-mans. Essentially, we'd want one or two different people who could lead a raid, with dedicated raiders in the guild.

as long as we aren't mandating anything re: raids, i think that'd be a good idea

i think that eventually - once we have enough members - we should look at tending towards a more democratic structure than the quasi-oligarchic one we'll have set up at first

i volunteer for looking into getting some sort of outside website set up for us all, second dram for bank management

[JDodge]

Okay, we need to decide what our guild recruitment message is going to be.

Obviously, I'd say that we're focused on leveling, primarily, but we can also mention that we're working to form 10-man raid groups. People are gonna want to know what our "primary" raiding nights are: how does Thursday & Sunday sound to everyone?

Aside from that, we need some help with recruiting. I'd suggest everyone create a macro with the guild's advertisement in it so they can just click a button and send it to General chat wherever they are. We just need to know what the message should say, exactly.

are we trying to be super super serious about everything or sort of a laid-back group of friends type thing?

what are the benefits for being there for raids? is there a mandatory attendance level? how are we deciding loot?

what sort of benefits are we willing to extend to people who join that make us a better choice than the other guilds?

[JDodge]

i'm pretty sure you misunderstood my second set of questions completely

[JDodge]

y'know, i was kind of under the impression when we as an MS group founded that this would be a democratic sort of order until we got to the recruitment process and not a reck-and-everyone-he's-fuckingocracy

perhaps i'm just jaded and cynical from my cybernations days wherein i helped establish a completely new alliance only for us to be merged into a different one by the group-of-friends founders who made sure they were the only ones who benefited from the merge, but it seems as if a small group of people have got it in their head that they're "founders" and can do what they want with no recourse (with the exception of dram, who is still one of the nicest people i've ever met on the intarwebs)

to be more specific, here is an exact list of my points against everything:

1. a complete and utter lack of communication, as explained by the following anecdote:

as was said earlier in the thread, i began research and work into a website for the guild roughly a week or so ago; not wanting to say anything on it until i was absolutely sure on our best course of action would be (which i determined would be to hop onto a pre-made site like GuildPortal at the start and either create a heavily personalized site on their framework depending on how customizable it is or create our own thing and launch it only once it's complete). i woke up this morning to see plastered everywhere "Brock is working on a website for us! let us know if you can help!" or something similar. apparently this was due to the fact that i didn't check in with reck and he "didn't know i was actually working on it" or something similar, and due to the fact that even though he told brock i was working on one, brock seemingly completely ignored that in favor of just deciding to do his own anyways

2. power to the (certain) people!

i've noticed a trend wherein the only people who hold any power within the guild above and beyond everyone else are:

Reck
Dram
Brock

what do these three have in common? i shouldn't have to spell it out to you

when i brought up that Brock had a competitive advantage if he was creating a site in parallel with me because he had MoTD rights, i was told that we all did in a rather backpedally manner:

(2:14:13 PM) wtfxwill: I upped everyone from MS.net + Brock to new ranks after our discussion in the WoW thread.
(2:14:28 PM) wtfxwill: But I don't remember if I did you because you weren't online.
(2:14:45 PM) wtfxwill: Actually, I probably didn't BECAUSE you weren't online and I only did online members >_>

right, because we were content to allow a sort of oligarchy to form until i questioned it

i came on after i went to work to see that brock has been given a special rank, which see above for the three who have powers over the rest of us

3. the chasing away of and then acting like a prick towards former members

see: tans drama earlier in thread; i still feel that the way he was treated after he was gone

after all that he did for us

was disgusting in every way, shape, and form

4. power-hunger

it seems quite obvious to me that reck has taken his position as guild leader to mean he's in charge, when i was pretty sure that when we founded as a group our idea was to sort of democratically do things, with reck agreed upon as the functionary leader

most recently, it seems as if he's unilaterally decided to give brock special powers as co-founder, and i disagree with that because lazercannonpewpew or whatever it was is dead. it died when we refounded and changed our name to modus operandi. we are all co-founders, we all poured ourselves into the guild, we all agreed on a direction to take, we all agreed on everything.

we are a people united, not a people dictated.

this is not the decision-making process i agreed on, this is

those are the main four reasons why my next log-on will be either rolling a new character or typing /gquit. i'll be back when you guys pull your heads out of your asses and either toss reck out on his or take him down the peg he so desperately needs to go.

- written by jd, agreed upon by cay

[JDodge]

JD, I tried to explain this earlier.

#1) The lack of communication wasn't on my part. It was on yours. You said you volunteered to make a website; I said okay; Then I heard nothing else. Brock, who doesn't even read this forum, informed me last night, "Oh, by the way, I downloaded Dreamweaver so I could work on a guild website," and I told him, "Oh, well I know JD mentioned something about making a website, you should check with him," and his response was to send out a message to the entire guild letting them know that we should all start collaborating on a website. I literally

do not care

who is working on a website and who isn't, but JD, you had no communication with us about the fact that you were working on one past "I'll do it!", and Brock wasn't "completely ignoring" your work on a site by working on one, he was taking initiative… and he clearly did your efforts, otherwise he wouldn't have changed the message of the day.

Right, his response was not to attempt to get into contact with me, but seize creative control over the entire project.

This is the issue here

. I understand that you don't care, but this is like if we were shooting a movie or something and one day you decided to replace the producer without telling him, or making any effort whatsoever to talk to him. It is not my fault that you did not check with me. It is not my fault that you assumed that I wasn't doing anything when I was just making sure all the ducks are lined up before anything happens, like I have been this entire time during our founding process (we needed to decide on a guild structure before we started recruiting, not afterward; our history so far is completely lined with overly-rushed and rash decisions made by the few and carried out apathetically by all).

What you call taking initiative I call seizing control completely and icing me out as nothing more than a mere collaborator.

#2) I have power because I'm the Guild Master. That's it. Otherwise, I haven't done a damn thing besides change ranks around. You yourself even nominated dramonic to be in charge of the Guild Bank… which, besides me being the GM, is still the only real leader/power role in the guild. Brock sat me down and talked to me and expressed his concerns over the fact that he & I started this guild (from the original purchase of the charter and everything), and he gets very little recognition for that. There was never an oligarchy - if it was just "Reck and all his friends lalalalala" then my friends Kole, Lauralee, and Stacey would have power in the guild. They don't. I've asked multiple times for Council position suggestions and everyone has pretty much ignored me. Nobody's really stepped up with any ideas, or any eager volunteers for the Council, so I cannot be blamed for there not being enough officers.

Dram has power because everyone agreed to it, I have power because hurr-durr I am the Guild Master, and Brock, who didn't even HAVE power until TODAY, is being made a co-GM because he was there from the start and does deserve some form of power/leadership in the guild itself.

This is a new start, and we are all here for it. He deserves nothing of the such until he has proven he deserves it, same as anyone else. Where was my shiny title and rank and stuff when I was the one who started the real 100% push for an MS guild when I first started playing? Where's my stuff for putting in for a bank tab as well? Where's BBM's special stuff for moving over his main at his own expense in order to bolster our ranks? Where was Tans' special stuff for paying for a month for Cay, buying me WoTLK, depositing all that stuff in our guild bank, buying a tab of his own, and allowing us to use his Vent server? What about Kai? What about Pie? What about Cay even though she didn't get a chance to do much of anything with us?

#3) Don't say "members". It's "member". It's tans. Nobody chased him away. He left because we weren't raiding enough. And by the way, it isn't just me that was acting like that towards him. A majority of the members were saying things in Guild Chat, too, and generally disliked the way and the reasons he left the guild.

well it's members now, three of them

#4) I fail to see how I am "power-hungry". I mean, seriously, this is like a ten-person guild on a MMORPG. What kind of power do I wield, exactly? I can… edit nametags on the guild bank… and change ranks. You are crying that I'm power hungry because I made Brock a co-GM… well, that's literally the ONLY decision I've made non-democratically. Yes, we're all founders. Unfortunately, there can't be ten GMs. That's why I made a proposal (one would say… democratically) and presented my plan for tiers in the guild, what each role should do, and so on and so forth. Dram was fine with it, AGar was fine with it, you responded to the post and didn't raise any issues, Kairyuu was fine with it, and BBM was fine with it.

You are not a GM as an elected official, nor are you a GM as a leader. You are a GM as a functionary. I am fine with the tiers and the like, but don't contrarily change things around later on when you decide you want to give someone else another perk for no reason.

I then came to you guys asking people what kind of focus they wanted. Your contribution so far has been to ask questions (to me, generally) about what kind of guild we want, what our focus is, what our requirements are… after I've brought these things to the rest of you to decide on. I've done nothing in a non-democratic fashion other than promoting Brock, and that was for no reason other than the fact that he helped pitch in to get the guild started, buy our first bank tab, get things rolling. We didn't consult him at all on changing the guild name, or setting up the ranks, or anything. He hasn't been a part of the democratic process, and him being set up as a co-GM is a show of good faith that despite the fact he can't communicate with us forum-wise, he's still important to the guild as a whole.

Really? Cause I kind of assumed the people who had regular contact with him such as yourself were informing him of what was going on and getting his opinion. Is this going to be a lack of communication that's my fault again?

I wish you would reconsider your stance, here, because I do not see how I'm this power-hungry, dictator that has seized control of Modus Operandi. If you want, I'll even hand control over to a neutral party who everyone can agree on, like dramonic. I do not care about being a Guild Master, I just want to play the fucking game and have a good group of people to do it with.

I want my complaints addressed in a satisfactory manner, I want a structure standardized and decided upon, I want people to stop putting the cart before the horse, I want people to start communicating with each other through whatever channels are necessary to get the job done.

These are my demands, and that is what it will take to get me back.

[JDodge]

JDodge, just out of curiosity, what structure would you propose? Seriously, Reck has tried to propose a structure, and I believe I was the only one to give input on that of any kind.

I'm pretty sure I agreed to the structure. My issue is that one was not in place before we began recruiting.

What's the big deal about Brock being a co-GM?

There is literally 0 reason for him to have that position.

What's the big deal that the website changed hands? It's not a spectacular website, it's a pre-made template that churns out a bunch of APIs from blizzard. And honestly, we needed

something

going soon, considering not everyone in the guild is a MS user.

I wanted to over time (using something as a short-term solution) build our own website. We can pull from those APIs, too, we just need to build the systems to do so with.

[JDodge]

What's the big deal about Brock being a co-GM?

There is literally 0 reason for him to have that position.

He put in for the original charter. As far as I'm informed, we didn't repurchase anything, and this wasn't a "from-scratch" guild. Why wouldn't he be deserving of it? We're not a strictly MS guild, as we've opened up recruiting, and it seems we haven't always been a straight-MS guild. I feel like this is nothing really worth arguing.

So? He's not the only one to have put in for stuff. I'd argue that we in essence refounded the second we changed our name and we all joined up. Aren't guild charters 10 gold? some people have put in for entire bank tabs, which cost way more.

What's the big deal that the website changed hands? It's not a spectacular website, it's a pre-made template that churns out a bunch of APIs from blizzard. And honestly, we needed

something

going soon, considering not everyone in the guild is a MS user.

I wanted to over time (using something as a short-term solution) build our own website. We can pull from those APIs, too, we just need to build the systems to do so with.

Well this is the short-term solution. Reck and I already talked about the APIs and building something from scratch today. I see no problem with multiple people working on the actual website for long-term, unless you have something already half-built and aren't telling us this. If you thought you were going to build it on your own, I either worry for your sanity or question if you've taken on a project like that before. I've seen a single person try and build up an entire site - it usually ends in disaster if they're not a professional at this. Again, you might be, but I'm guessing the likelihood is you aren't if you were researching the possibilities before.

The issue is not multiple people working on the website, it's creative control and the fact that nothing was coordinated between the two of us.

[JDodge]

i'd also like to take this time to ask exactly what this co-founder position's benefits are, noting that if it's essentially co-GM then reck definitively should step down as GM as it's pretty clear he's no longer a trustworthy arbiter, nor is he acting in his position as the "necessary functionary" that we agreed on

[JDodge]

You know, I chipped in for a bank tab, have been making pots and such on request (namely cayke and her mana potions), have farmed mats for people (ex - dram's Motes that took for-freaking-ever), have mailed random useful gear/potions to those that could use it... Hell, our guild name was one of my suggestions. Do you see me asking for power or throwing a fit about other people having a higher rank than I?

No. My point is not that I have no power or that other people have a higher rank, my point is that there is no need for the power to exist and the rationale behind it is a steaming BS sandwich.

No. Because not only is this just a game, but we're supposed help each other out, as a guild. We're supposed to not only help, but communicate with one another. That's key. And that's all this seems to be - a miscommunication.

The latest in a string of miscommunications.

JD, I see where you're coming from. If you had a problem, though, you could have spoken up instead of threatening to quit the guild. I don't have anything against you, but I do have to say this - if you want to leave, leave. No one's stopping you. Also, if you want this to be a full democracy, why not let our recruits have some input too? You've failed to mention them.

This is me speaking up, and I have technically quit already (as has Cay, who has cosigned on my original letter, but she's not formalized it yet)

I have not met any of our recruits yet.

Concerning the guild architecture or whatever the fuck, I gave no input because I don't think I'm that great a player, so my opinion doesn't matter as much. I do like the idea of higher ranks acting as "teachers" to the lower ranks. I'd even offer to "sign up" for a council position, but again, I lack self-confidence/skill.

My point is that everyone's opinion should matter if we're to continue the facade that we're a welcoming, social group.

But basically, we're all adults here (right?). Let's talk things out. As long as we have a website, I fail to see why it matters who makes it. Everyone has equal input regardless of rank (Reck offering to step down to appease JD proves this), so everyone just take a chill pill.

First tans and now this - I'm tired of all this drama. =/

/phonepost

As an artist, and as someone who views this undertaking (most of which is going to be about aesthetics, as is most every website in the long run; you wouldn't visit a place if it was hideously ugly) as a creative endeavor, having creative control stripped from me without anyone consulting me is something I take as a personal insult to my talents and to my dedication towards this project (which will require a lot of hours of work). Since it seems we have taken the "I'm just going to make my own" approach to things here, then the fact that my project was at a competitive disadvantage from the beginning is also insulting to me.

[JDodge]

really suggest in the long-term scaling the HR position to a sub-council of people, or perhaps separating it from the "council" part

You haven't logged on in a while and only hinted once at having interest in us having a website =S

1. i stated pretty publicly that i was taking a 2 week break for midterms + spring break
2. i'm on AIM almost 24/7, people could have dropped me a line there
3. we have a fun thing called a pm system here on MS that could have been used

Well, if you're not openly announcing that you are currently working on a website for the guild it's not stripping you of creative control as much as assuming you were just launching an idea in the air...

i don't see how i at all didn't openly announce i was working on one, and people could still have asked instead of assuming

when you assume, you make an ass out of yourself

The only one with ACTUAL higher power besides Reck is myself, and it's that to reorganize the bank pretty much freely. Brock's Co-GM title is a name more than anything else.

it's impossible for any of us to confirm that

[JDodge]

when you assume, you make an ass out of yourself

when you make an assumption, you make an ass out of you and umption.

so long and thanks for the fish, asshole

[JDodge]

1. i stated pretty publicly that i was taking a 2 week break for midterms + spring break
2. i'm on AIM almost 24/7, people could have dropped me a line there
3. we have a fun thing called a pm system here on MS that could have been used

Why is it our responsibility to do that? I appreciate you volunteering as I'm sure everyone else does, but we saw no proactive progress, and it's not up to us to somehow get ahold of you to make sure you're doing what you at-one-time volunteered to do. And no, there was no way for Brock to contact you, seeing as how he doesn't have AIM and isn't on MS.

so you're working from the assumption that i'm a liar when i say i'm going to do something and/or that i'm a flake

well that's a good place to start

it's impossible for any of us to confirm that

It's impossible for any of you to confirm... what? That nobody else has higher power other than dram? No, that's pretty easy to tell. That I haven't given secret powers to people? No, I haven't done that, and there's no reason to think I have.

actually, i'd argue that defining a rank for

a single person

is a good reason to think that you have, otherwise it's at best just an appeasement (which i'd find kind of insulting, personally)

[JDodge]

In the local game store today, I was checking out the WoW expansions. 50$ each. Meaning it would be 100$ as well as the monthly subscription to get back into things.

THIS IS WHY PEOPLE PIRATE GAMES.

look at battle.net's pricing - they have a deal where you get $$$ off for buying everything at once

[JDodge]

We could find a way to use the site JD designs on the dotcom then just link to the forums like MS.net does.

Of course I'm terrible at setting up FTP stuff so that's up to you guys.

perhaps this wasn't obvious, but seeing as i have since quit the guild i no longer have any desire to do any free work

seeing as i'm not that good at coding and would rather not deal with any of that nonsense, feel free to contact me for a quote for design aspects you might need

[JDodge]

SARAH PALADIN IS NOT TERRIBLE PIEMAN

[JDodge]

"Q: Can we see gear won via need rolls become soulbound? - Lorinall (NA/ANZ)

A: Yes. We plan on implementing a system where winning an item via Need (when using the Dungeon Finder Need Before Greed loot system) will make a BoE item soulbound. We hope to have this working for the 4.2 patch.

To expand on that idea in case it’s not obvious, we don’t think players should be able to claim certain loot drops based on their class if their only intent is to sell the item. If you want to use the item yourself, awesome, go ahead and roll Need on it and you’ll get preference over players who can’t use that armor type. But if all you want to do is run to the Auction House, then everyone should have equal dibs."

Cool.

MY PROFIT MARGINS

MY BEAUTIFUL BEAUTIFUL PROFIT MARGINS

[JDodge]

semester is over, so i should have time to play now (read: i'm trying not to burn out on LoL and I have nothing else to do between now and september)

going to work on getting my hunter to 85, might be willing to join up with you guys on occasion for funtimes once i get there

[JDodge]

I suddenly want Tri-spec so I can pick up a Fury spec and play around with it. Arms is fun with Lolblades, but the appeal of TG is still fun sometimes >:-D

but wouldn't lolblades be a go less often then

[JDodge]

can anyone help me figure out what stats i should be focusing on for my prot pally

i need to figure out what i should and shouldn't be trying to get

[JDodge]

i tend to forget ej exists, it's a shameful affliction really

[JDodge]

I might be re-subbing sooner than I thought. Doing alright money-wise and a friend is really harassing me to play with her (on Skullcrusher, so I may not be on my DK too often).

Not 100% sure if I actually will or not yet, but just figured I'd mention that I'm very tempted to re-sub.

doooo eeeeet

[JDodge]

Seems like Reck is back (finally).

In other news, I've opened talks with another small guild about them merging into our guild in exchange for some officer powers and such (because I'm apparently PR now, *cough*). Once we hear back from them as to whether or not they're all interested, I'll lay out the exact proposal, and we can vote on it as a guild.

Current things we're considering offering/they've requested if they decide to go for it:
1. Officer status to all of their officers.
2. Insertion of one of their members as head raid leader, moving BBM and me to a subordinate position.
3. They have a web domain and a programmer working on getting it up and running, and would like to use it. This particular one we're iffy on, as we know that several people have an interest in the site we already have, and would want to be involved, regardless of what domain the site is under.


To be perfectly honest, I expect them to demand more than we'd be willing to give them, (as in, I believe they'll try to pretty much take over the guild) but if this works out we may have initial stages of a working raid group ready as soon as a few days from now.

as official whiner and policy nazi, allow me to review these terms and conditions

officer status to all of their officers seems like it clashes completely and utterly with the philosophy of a democratic process we seemed to agree on; if this plan has changed due to everything falling apart, i think that this is a bad thing to do until we have some solid guild structure

what are their goals as a guild? they seem focused on raiding - i don't want to start some massive rift between the new blood and the old guard on how much we're raiding, etc.

if they have their own domain and whatnot, doesn't that require either a name change on our part (which i'm strongly against, if they want to merge into us, they need to be accepting of our terms and conditions; i have a lot of negotiation experience if you need someone to strong-arm them onto favorable positions for us) and/or a lot of confusion over the domain and whatnot?

i'm very, very wary of this, we need to hear exact terms and conditions from them and then counter; make sure they give us an entire list of what they want before we start offering them things, we need to get in a position where we're making them tailor their demands to us instead of us tailoring to them

[JDodge]

@JD: Kai was confused - they don't have a domain name, we do.

They seem to be mostly focused on raiding, yes, but the talk of arena teams came up, and I'm sure we could nab people for heroics too.

In order for this merge to go successfully, we would have to give them some kind of say in the guild. If that meant me stepping down from Officer in order to give a council position to one of their people, I'd do it.

Of course I'm not sold on this either. We'll need to wait and hear back with what they say, first, which is what I said to the other GM and Kairyuu tonight.

yeah, yeah

i just want to make sure that the terms and conditions of this merge are favorable to us instead of them

[JDodge]

I'm half and half on this.

I don't like the idea of giving all of their officers officer status. Some is fine, but (especially when we have no clear "direction" for some of ours it feels like) all of them feels like now we get pushed out of the mix/you'll have two opposing factions vying for control [maybe we should rename the guild to "Tol Barad - Guild Edition"] of the guild.

I do like getting a pickup on raiding sooner, but at the same time, I don't want to basically see us get shoved around because they're more focused on raiding (it seems) than we have been able to been.

I definitely want to see what else they have/want but right now I'm leaning against it slightly.

would everyone somewhat on-the-fence-leaning-against agree that the main issue we have in this merger is that we don't actually have enough organization on our own side to support bringing in a bunch of new people?

i'd also like to take this time looking at the original post to note how much i hate the wording of this:

2. Insertion of one of their members as head raid leader, moving BBM and me to a subordinate position.

did they specifically say subordinate position? i have a massive problem with allowing anyone that demands that our current members be subordinate to theirs in most every actual position that they could have

i'm rather heavily in the "their terms are awful" camp right now

[JDodge]

"The Fourth Reign" is their guild name.

They didn't say "subordinate" specifically, that was just something I said.

I'll wait and see what happens with their counteroffer and discuss it with you guys.

counteroffer implies something was offered to them in the first place

don't make me quit you guys again, i got really bored really quickly

[JDodge]

yeah no, i'm completely and utterly against giving pretty much anything to them

they're 10 characters, almost certainly of which 2 are alts

they have no achievements to speak of, nothing accomplished

i'll start data mining on their roster in just a few to give us a better, more detailed idea of what they are

[JDodge]

data sorted into table form yay

Char Name	race	class	spec 1	spec 2	ilvl	prof 1/lvl	prof 2/lvl
Falda	Tauren	Druid	Balance	Resto	322	JC/416	Enc/334
Daskrust	Belf	Priest	Disc	Holy	356	Alc/525	Tail/525
Darkgrave	Orc	Warlock	Destr.	N/A	359	Tail/525	Enc/485
Brodan	Orc	Shaman	Enhance	N/A	350	JC/508	Mine/525
Dopeness	Goblin	Mage	Arcane	Fire	348	Tail/461	Enc/467
Deadlyhorns	Troll	DK	Blood	Unholy	348	JC/511	Mine/525
Torey	Tauren	Warrior	Arms	Prot	354	Alc/525	Herb/525
Gorgyra	Troll	Priest	Shadow	Disc	352	Alc/510	Herb/525
Mushual	Undead	DK	Blood	N/A	71	None	None
Koroso	Goblin	Warlock	Demon	N/A	7	Tail/75	Enc/67

conclusions: they don't bring much to the table aside from a few raw stats

[JDodge]

Just talked to one of their guys briefly.

- Raiding is "their only direction" right now.
- Details of importance to them are which guild merges into which & how many of us are looking to raid.
- Notes we are slightly undergeared. (I did point out that the same can be said for their group - the 356 arms warrior is in PvP gear, and a lot of them aren't fully gemmed/enchanted/etc).

While talking with Reck, we agreed to discuss this before any decisions are made, but it seems the general consensus here is we won't be going with it.

They didn't seem to want to talk to me, so meh.

I'll let Kai work on getting a final terms from them before anything else. Told them we'll be in contact.

consider this my personal stamp of no

Jdodge if he's planning on raiding with us,

I might be interested once I get my mage up to that level. Not really on my hunter because the only really good hunter spec for raiding from what I can tell is survival, and fuck that noise.

[JDodge]

@Jdodge: Marksmanship is the OP spec now actually. the first 20% actually takes a good amount of time, and getting those massive crits from aimed shot + attached dots sticks marks way above the pack for that part, and while they do lose some dps after that 20%, they're still right up there with the best of them.

Yup, just checked stateofdps and it looks like marks hunters are the best spec in the game on the adjusted totals (aka for the aggregate of every fight except halfus).

i almost get rid of the damn thing and you have to come in with your

facts and logic

in other news i'm switching to beastmaster

>.>

[JDodge]

Oh, I bug JD to hurry and level all the time. He prefers Archaeology

it's more i have 3 different characters i'm working on at the same time

when i get the money i'm likely going to move my pally over to LB; i'm planning on having a prot spec and a holy spec so i can tank/heal depending on what we need

[JDodge]

Kai and I are both leveling and gearing other toons to be able to fill extra slots in raids. Lol.

Side note - our main priority should be rdps, we're stacked to the hilt on melee and have two to three tanks, depending on if brock chooses prot or holy as his main spec. Heals we have Dom/BBM/New druid (chill dude) + Kai in a pinch and if Reck/Brock get heals sets for emergency situations.

actually it's more an "i wanted a healing/tanking toon for when i inevitably get bored just shooting things, and i might as well move it to a server that i'd rather play on", but thanks for your condescendence in lecturing me on what we need

in other news, if our main raiding nights are going to be monday/tuesday, i should be around tuesdays at very least and possibly mondays depending on when we start

[JDodge]

Guild Wars can also be played in short bursts, unlike WoW, and is currently the game stopping me from re-subbing. <_<

why don't you love us anymore

[JDodge]

so i decided to stop arch grinding until i hit 85 on my hunter (which i'm trying to do while i'm on vacation this week), and i sold my leftover keystones on the AH since i'm just going to be getting more anyways

4 Troll Tablets at ~89g for ~340g profit
2 Dwarf Rune Stones at ~81g for ~154g profit

this tells me that when i go back to my arch grinding, the key is to not use keystones at all to complete artifacts and instead sell them for massive profit

[JDodge]

Yeah, keystones are huuuge in generating gold.

Problem is I'm trying to power to 450, and keystones make that a lot easier

, especially in the BC zones where you can use 2 keystones for some common artifacts. There's also a really cheap way to get two keystones to a vanilla common by getting within 11 or closer of the current projects threshold without keystones, using a keystone and then solving, and using a keystone on the next artifact.

Troll tablets are going to have the bottom fall out soon, though. Zin'Rokh will become less relevant with the 4.2 patch when it does drop (still 3-5 weeks out I think).

bolded part is the

exact reason

why the bottom won't fall out of the market

EDIT: For my own benefit

current market price per unit on keystones

Highborne Scroll - 66g
Troll Tablet - 87g
Dwarf Rune Stone - 80g
Draenei Tome - 122g
Orc Blood Text - 101g
Nerubian Obelisk - 200g
Vrykul Rule Stick - 99g
Tol'vir Hieroglyphic - 332g

running more numbers after lunch

[JDodge]

Yeah, I'm actually surprised a bit at the prices, but yeah, that should stabilize things. Didn't think about that. I expected troll to be a bit higher on the end of things atm, but again - wrong. Lulz.

it's a combination of rarity and usefulness

[JDodge]

so, here's what my simulations say

assuming that you get 1 keystone per dig site, the information i have on dig site frequency is correct, and that my calculations are correct, then the following is figured out:

Prior to level 300 of archaeology, EK gives ~11g more per dig site than Kal
At level 300, Outland dig sites become available; they outclass EK dig sites by ~51g
At level 375, Northrend dig sites become available; they outclass Outland dig sites by ~6g
At level 450, Cata dig sites become available; they change the numbers on EK to make it even less profitable and over double the Kal dig site value; that being said, Northrend still outclasses it by ~3g

Put simply, Outland, Northrend, and Kalimdor post-450 give near-identical amounts of gold per dig; EK is better until you hit 300 but after that is pretty much useless

Obviously these numbers will change as market price changes, my numbers say that the current top expected per-site value is Northrend's 118.98g per dig site currently

[JDodge]

WoW is not my main focus at present; it's going to be a while before I hit 85, just as a note towards your raid planning. I'm also not sure how much I'm going to be available for it.

[JDodge]

Yeah you're not getting an invite from me to come back if they kick you out again.

you'll get one from me, i want to win the "when will he quit again" pool

again

[JDodge]

Careful Aim now grants additional critical strike chance against targets over 90% health, up from 80% health.

nooooooooo

Arcane Blast damage done has been reduced by 5%.

noooooooooo

blizz be nerfin mah deeps

[JDodge]

@AGar: Matt wants to. I want to. You obviously want to. The problems lie in those of us (me included, though I'd stop if it actually looked like anything was going to happen) who randomly disappear, but say that they're interested in raiding. Also lack of any real progress on recruiting.

So, short answer is maybe. Longer answer is eventually, but only if the people who have expressed interest actually make an effort to get themselves ready and help recruit for the spots we're still missing.

@all: If you are actually serious about wanting to raid as a guild sometime in the NEAR future (aka 2-4 weeks from now AT MOST) then say so in thread please. If we don't have the manpower for it, I say we just put this on the back burner indefinitely until we actually have the size/interest. I also may very well join a raiding guild on Kai in the mean time, but if/when Modus is actually prepared to raid I'll be back for sure.

Out of curiosity, who is randomly disappearing at the moment for the most part? I know me + BBM have been on a lot (I tend to disappear for a day or two when I get swamped with other projects, but I'm usually on at least once a day if not to get inscrip research on my mage), but come to think of it that's pretty much the only person I see on.

I feel that the likelihood of us getting together enough people for actual raiding funtimeses is highly unlikely at this juncture, and we should consider (as a group) abandoning ship. After thinking this over last night, I feel that we need to make a decision as to whether we shut down and move as a group or split up and do our own thing. I don't feel continuing on where we are is a tenable decision at this point in time, as we're very much the rudderless ship at the moment.

If we do move as a group, I don't really care where we go as long as they don't have some sort of minimum raid requirement - I'm never entirely sure of my schedule from week-to-week due to my keeping odd hours most of the time while working on various projects. I don't think I'd be able to commit to a full-on raiding schedule.

[JDodge]

If you guys decide to close up shop on Modus Operandi, I would only ask that you guys pitch it as a merger so that some of the officers can still get high ranking positions in the new guild. Not for me -- when I come back it'll probably be in a limited capacity. But I'd also like the guild you guys find to be social/relaxed. Raiding group is fine, but not a hardcore raiding guild,etc.

Here's the main issue. We, as a group, don't bring all that much to the table. In a merge situation, we have zero-to-none bargaining power. Any agreement on our end will be more of a capitulation than a merge. We aren't creating something new in this situation - we're selling ourselves. I feel that we should as a group pore through potentially interested parties and then send our strongest negotiator into the situation to see how much we can possibly get; we should also open talks with multiple guilds simultaneously and see if we can't start a bidding war.

I'll try to get to 85 before we start talks; having another 85, not to mention it being an 85 with the current highest DPS spec in the game, that only needs gear to be raid-ready will be

crucial

in gaining favor.

[JDodge]

Well, there's also the issue that if there's another guild about our size or perhaps a bit bigger, gaining that many level 85s in exchange for a bit of administrative power is a good deal for them.

Not really. There are always going to be free agent level 85s. There's not always administrative power.

[JDodge]

started scouting out the guild scene on my mage, will let you guys know my results

[JDodge]

9.15m xp to get to 85 wat

i'm thinking the guild i found isn't the right one for us to go into, but i might stick with it anyways

[JDodge]

i have hit 85 and all i got was this lousy fixed-rate mortgage on my mortal soul

[JDodge]

WoW is free (limited). Might start messing around with that this month (along with free expansion pack for those who are already members and haven't gotten it yet).

Isn't that only to level 20? Aside from the first time around, absolutely nothing interesting happens up to level 20 except for the really, really awful early instances.

That being said, if you do you should start a character on Lightning's Blade (Horde). I'd be more than happy to run the really, really awful early instances with you.

[JDodge]

i did sfk three times in a row once because i kept ballsing up the quests

no joke

haven't been in an instance since aside from when i solo'd the deadmines for le shits und giggles

it was a very scarring experience

[JDodge]

How goes getting the computer fixed, Kai? It's boring when I'm the only person logged in most of the time...

i should be on more now that the shiny has worn off of the steam sale stuff

[JDodge]

i've fallen back onto the wow train, looking for a new guild on LB because fuck server changes

been using it to relax after work and to give me a reason to stream before team practices

[JDodge]

free pandawow for anyone who wants it for as long as this sale lasts because i got screwed over by blizzard having the worst wallet system ever designed

[JDodge]

Yo.

Do you have any conditions?

you need to have the base+bc+wrath+cata (which are all on sale for a total of $15) and I will buy it for the person I feel like buying it for

[JDodge]

i used scorch back in cata when i was leveling

[JDodge]

I know they

need

a nerf but I think it's going to hit Arcane Mages way harder than they're thinking, it wouldn't shock me for them to not even scrape the top 10 anymore

marksman hunter nerf PTSD says hi

[JDodge]

Yeah, it's weird that Aff didn't get a nerf. Sad that Arms & MM are still bad

That being said, I'm really not seeing where Arcane is 20-25% higher DPS than the next closest class. Noxxic (which uses Simcraft

not actual numbers

) has Arcane at 117k max/100k realistic, and the next closest classes are only about 3-4k behind. WoL has way more fire mages, afflication locks, and prot pallies above us on DPS for most of the fights. The only fight I see where Arcane Mages are #1 is the first encounter in HoF.

bolded important part

There are several real-world issues that a simulation can't account for - one is class difficulty and thus room for human error. I use Raidbots for all of my info because it normalizes DPS across all encounters by scaling them all off of each other (scoring on a curve) instead of averaging it across all fights (where fights with naturally lower DPS poison the statistics, so to speak). The data I have off of that states quite clearly that in 25M Heroic, both Arcane mage and Aff lock are

way

higher than all other specs normalized across all fights. I would argue that based off of the data (and taking the lower standard deviation on Aff locks to mean that they're more consistent and/or generally easier to play), Aff lock was the more broken class but both need a toning down.

A 20% reduction in DPS off of the 14-day moving median DPS from top 100 parses I have would put Arcane mages at 129,196 from 161,495. This would put them on the low end of the spectrum but still viable (the only arguably unviable DPS specs at the moment are Unholy DK, sub rogue, Frost mage, arms warrior, and mm hunter), although they would be the weakest of the viable DPS classes by about 300-700 dps under Ele shaman and Demon lock.

The same pattern for the most part holds true for 25 man normals and 10 man heroics. 25 man LFR tracks them as still among the top 10. 10 man normals track a bit higher than 25 normals.

tl;dr arcane mages and aff locks both need to be brought into line as they're consistently about 15-20k dps above all other classes in the data I have; a 20% nerf is not completely eviscerating the class by any means but is putting them as probably weaker than Fire mages (which I don't see as being stronger through any overall tracking; saying that a class isn't broken because there are better classes in one fight is like saying that a Ferrari isn't faster than a dump truck because a Ferrari can't perform well in the "while carrying a few tons of rocks" category due to being slightly crushed to death).

[JDodge]

In other news I recently moved my Hunter from our old PvP server (Lightning's Blade) to a new PvE server (Aggramar) due to the fact that LB is now pretty heavily Alliance in terms of active members who like to hang out outside the inn in Halfhill for 3 fucking hours.

LOOK AT ALL THE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T VIOLENTLY MURDERING ME

[JDodge]

I found the first 3 levels to be really quick and painless, but once you get to townlong it really sloooooows doooown (because townlong is easily the worst zone of the xpac), and the last level just drags on.

I dunno, early Krasarang was pretty damn awful; is Townlong that much worse?

[JDodge]

Some parts of Dread Wastes are a pain in the ass because there are a ton of mobs everywhere, and a lot of mobs have knockbacks that cause you to aggro other mobs, but if you play around it and play smart it's fine... plus, the Dread Wastes plotline is actually really cool IMO

i'm a hunter, nothing actually hits me unless it has AoE or i screw up and forget to mend pet

[JDodge]

Dread wastes is really great, its just nice having a zone that all ties together behind a common theme/goal like that. I guess the Zhu's watch questline in kras. was meh, but once you got past that it really kicked up. I sort of struggled in kun-lai, is just felt really disjointed to me for the most part, and I wished there was more with the white tiger temple overall. That questline was really disappointing.

Valley and Dread wastes were both really great though, imo. Jade Forest was alright as a 3rd place to those 2.

See, I actually haven't started Zhu's watch yet and was talking about the start of the Nesingwary/Thunder Cleft storylines.

[JDodge]

simmed

For everyone's sake, including yourself. Stop.

SV was competitive with BM pre-patch (slightly behind at the highest levels, slightly ahead at all levels below that) and just got buffed pretty hard (Explosive Shot is your bread-and-butter skill, especially with Lock and Load, and Black Arrow is similar) compared to BM. Those numbers are janky as fuck.

[JDodge]

so basically... idk what the new mage rotation will look like at all, and holy shit they buffed Frost which was already going to town in arena, and the top 25man guild is nixing all mages to get boomkins/locks instead

source pls

[JDodge]

so basically... idk what the new mage rotation will look like at all, and holy shit they buffed Frost which was already going to town in arena,

and the top 25man guild is nixing all mages to get boomkins/locks instead

source pls

[JDodge]

Oh!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... 158?page=1

Guild is Method

i for one take everything a level 1 alt posts on the forums as absolute truth

[JDodge]

There is a drop called Opalescent Blue Crab Shell for a quest over in Kun-lai that according to Wowhead has a 12 or so % chance of dropping. The crabs also drop a piece of vendor trash 100% of the time.

Guess who killed 60 crabs before they got the blue crab shell?

[JDodge]

i'll probably be back on it once i cut the 1 in dkc3, been too busy doing level drills in my spare time :/