Star Trek Deep Space Nine Season 1 Dead Thread

[MonkeyMan576]

This is the dead thread.

Currently dead:
LicketyQuickety(lynched day 1)
Saint(killed night 1)
MaxwellPuckett(killed night 1)
Hostile Intent(killed Night 2)
senator (lynched day 3)
Salamence20(killed night 3)
ChannelDelibird(lynched day 4)
ika(lynched day 5)
Narninian(killed night 5)
St. Constantine the Hermit(lynched day 6)
Psyche(Killed night 6)
Riabi(Lynched day 7)
Suzune(Killed night 7)
Titus(lynched day 8)

[MonkeyMan576]

Titus is an example of someone who people have criticized in the past but have changed their play to suit the style of this forum more.

[MonkeyMan576]

There's not a lot wrong with your logic, I think what turns people off is your hyper posting play style. Town players will want a relatively equal amount of posting from all players so they can feel like everyone is giving an equal amount of input. If one player posts a lot more than everyone else, then it gives scum players a chance to lurk.

[MonkeyMan576]

Well, practice makes perfect, and you're free to talk about the game in the dead thread from here on out:).

[MonkeyMan576]

You are presuming that A) All deaths are town and B) everyone is a power role.

[MonkeyMan576]

We'll see, but perhaps.

[MonkeyMan576]

Scum would have been killed last ngiht had it not been for a roleblock

[MonkeyMan576]

We have an unusal amount of new players in this game, for sure. I am going to have an experience requirement in the season 2 game.

[MonkeyMan576]

Let's keep things civil. This isn't junior high. Even if she is scum it's scum job to lie and there is no reason to be rude and callous.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think I have the full picture of what a hider is even though I looked it up on the wiki.. could you explain it please?

Sorry didn't see this question.

A hider visits a player each night. If the player they visit is town, they are immune to night actions. If the player is mafia or the player is town and is killed, then they are killed. With a smart player it can be used as investigative role to clear players as town if they survive.

Just an FYI for those that are paying attention to the thread, the reason PV is advocating massclaim is that he is an oracle(can ask any pre-randomization setup question as a night action). Two nights ago he asked what the scum roles are and last night he asked what the town roles are. So now he knows the entire game setup, and obviously wants to catch scum in a lie. The problem is he doesn't have a lot of town cred, so it will be interesting to see how this turns out.

Scum has a fakeclaim of benjamin sisko, which will be difficult to break as scum without any investigative roles left(except Tracker and Theif), so i think the odds of either side winning right now is pretty close at 50/50.

[MonkeyMan576]

Not with the fake claim, and Oracle has to survive to use it. Scum have lots of power too so it's not overpowered. Powerful yes, but not overpowered.

Also it relies on Oracle knowing how to use the power. That's a lot of variables.

[MonkeyMan576]

Also his oracle ability is two shot so he can't use it anymore. Forgot to say that.

[MonkeyMan576]

See, town has an oracle, are massclaiming based on the oracles info and they still apparently will lynch town again.

[MonkeyMan576]

No.

[MonkeyMan576]

This is a critical point in the game, scum could have speed lynched Titus but chose not to, they probably could have lynched PeregrineV as well before St. Augustine messed up. If they end up lynching St. Augustine, he is scum and could be the tipping point in the game.

[MonkeyMan576]

Scum could still speed lynch PV or Titus right now, I'm kind of dumbfounded as to why they are not doing it. Losing St. Augustine would be pretty bad for them.

[MonkeyMan576]

You have a right to your opinion but it is not correct.

For example, PV has claimed oracle since day 5, and he is still alive. Apparently scum are discussing killing Psyche tonight and not PV, even though PV has not shared the town roles yet.

Also, scum has made some poor assumptions about who is and who isn't power roles based on their tracking.

And you are forgetting scum has a fakeclaim, a very powerful fakeclaim, that if used right can refute the oracle.

So I think you'll be surprised. You are making judgements without knowing the whole picture.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah but not everyone is a town pr. That's why there is vanilla townies.

[MonkeyMan576]

So scum kills Psyche, the tracker, rather than PV, who knows every single one of their and the towns roles, and has yet to reveal the town makeup.

Yet some claim it's game balance and not scum stupidity that will lose them this game.

[MonkeyMan576]

The wifom is one of the reasons the game is not broken though. Scum thinks they have a chance to win and that is all that really matters.

[MonkeyMan576]

Here is a classic reason why the game is still balanced.

Town is convinced there is scum between Titus and PV, and both are town.

[MonkeyMan576]

If the players can effect the outcome of the game, then the game is balanced. An imbalanced game is one where the players actions have no effect on the game due to the roles.

[MonkeyMan576]

So you're saying you should never have cops or vigs? That doesn't make sense at all.

I mean if you are anti-power role you're entitled to your opinion, but this game was reviewed by very respected members of the community, whose opinion I trust more than you, to be honest.

[MonkeyMan576]

It is Benjamin sisko. They choose the power.

[MonkeyMan576]

I didn't know what questions the Oracle would ask when I designed the game. But the last scum could reasonably claim Ben Sisko, VT, since Dr. Bashir, another main character is vanilla. This could make things a little more difficult for town.

[MonkeyMan576]

You can't ask questions about the post-randomization setup(such as who is scum or town)

[MonkeyMan576]

You could ask what roles were on the same team, but not players.

[MonkeyMan576]

Trying to outguess the mod is generally not the best way to win mafia games.

I think the scum team still has a few tricks up their sleeves.

[MonkeyMan576]

How do you know what scum has Titus? You're town, remember?

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, but he didn't ask if scum had fakeclaims.

[MonkeyMan576]

No, they wouldn't. Because I would have know way of knowing which scum would use the fake claim until they use it.

[MonkeyMan576]

At any rate, the game is going to go town to at least the final five players, and possibly the final three, so I don't think there's any way you can argue that it isn't balanced.

[MonkeyMan576]

In can work in different ways, but in this game, the scum have their normal roles, but they are given one "safe claim", a claim that would normally be considered town, which is Benjamin Sisko. I could have given every scum a safe claim, but I thought that would be overpowered, so instead I gave scum one claim that would be hard to refute, the captain of the station. Some games give scum a power as well as a role, but since there is an Oracle in the game, giving out roles doesn't really help that much, and even then, there would be nothing to stop scum from using their claims however they wanted, i.e. one player using a claim that wasn't intended for them. So because of that, there is no way that an Oracle or Cop's results could be influenced by the claims, the Oracle or Cop just gets the actual roles/alignments.

Nero Cain is obviously going to claim Benjamin Sisko, Vanilla Townie. Pretty much the only way town will have to refute this is if dave's theif role targets Nero Cain, thus getting the tracker role to steal. But dave hasn't been that diligent in using his power, in fact he hasn't actually stolen anything yet. So who knows if he will actually submit his night action. Either way it will be an entertaining Day 9.

[MonkeyMan576]

At any rate, the game is going to go town to at least the final five players,

and possibly the final three,

so I don't think there's any way you can argue that it isn't balanced.

In bold. I don't get it.

If a town dies tonight, then there will be five players left tomorrow. If town fails to lynch scum tomorrow, and another town dies tomorrow night, then they will be down to the final three players.

[MonkeyMan576]

it doesnt change the endpoint that an oracle being able to know an entire setup as well as scums having one god damn fakeclaim with 5 people on the team is terrible

Not really, when you consider how easy scum usually win on this site.

[MonkeyMan576]

It's not impossible, but scum didn't help themselves by keeping an obviously dangerous role alive.

[MonkeyMan576]

Not really he waited at least a day or two to out the scum roles.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm not saying I wouldn't use Oracle differently in the future, just that it's not unbalancing the game.

[MonkeyMan576]

I haven't seen Oracle actually used, I just saw it in the list of roles and decided to use it.