STEVEN UNIVERSE 2: HOMEWORLD COMMUNICATION HUB

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, we can also kill Xkfyu with remote detonator if we choose to.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh. :/ I did not realize anything we had submitted differed from what anyone had said directly to you. Sorry.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Twie, how is the dgb saga? Did you respond to her?

[Reasonably Rational]

^^ ask her to full claim properly, and to tell you how she's supposed to join her team..:p

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm pretty sure she's actually jaspar btw.

Alliance forcing makes perfect flavor sense, Varsoon doesn't like cops so it would only make sense as a mechanic given to someone who isn't town, and the ascetic I'm gonna have to assume was a lie. Though a weird one to tell.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah, so TWIE: tell her she might as well full claim, real and fake claims, flavor included, and all actions taken, since if you're town now that she's done this twice there's no way she's not getting lynched today..:p

[Reasonably Rational]

You know what fits your meta beat really. As long as it makes sense, go for it.

If there are ONLY mastin and Titus on the list, you two will need to claim to have voted for titus (most likely, basically depends on the point spread. We basically want town to have two equally large pools with equal numbers of scum in them, so they don't get too close to solving either one too quickly.)

It's unlikely that will happen imo, because I expect someone to self vote and convince their ally to vote with them, giving us a nice buffer for lies, but we'll see.

[Reasonably Rational]

Umm, has everyone submitted their votes? For fear of enraging varsoon...

All members of our team(RR, TWIE, SS, and Skybird) vote for Mastin in the beachapalooza.

Please everyone confirm that you agree with this action please.

[Reasonably Rational]

Still no response from dgb ya?

Did you ask her for thr additional claim stuff?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Last time I give town ANY credit at all.

...

Coulda totally made Titus get the event. *sigh*

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yes, Skybird and us are claiming we voted mastin.

You and twie need to come up with an explanation for not voting either mastin or titus . You can claim a random throwaway vote on someone else, or just not voting, or whatever. Just make sure it makes sense and doesn't get you killed, and stick to the order in the post titus made.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, called it on someone being dumb and voting for themselves and convincing their partner to vote for them too.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh. Guys. I figured this out forever ago but never mentioned it:

DGB is a vote stealer. She took KCs vote on D1 and out it on snarky.

Adding that into my math, if she's the traitor...we're like 3 mislynches away from winning, even with the cluster not working, and town getting a resurrection...if we kill all the gems. 4 away if we don't kill all the gems.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yume isn't really conftown, she's actually third party, but depending on what KCs flip shows, if it even ends up happening, she's going to be considered conftown sure.

I actually think it's more likely the game has a load of 3p party that could have went any way, and with SC's D1 flip they're all working to help town.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Lol yeah. That's what I meant with the not being subtle comment. She said she wasn't going to express her own thoughts in order to keep people from sheeping her and to not out her guilty....then she says stuff like that.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well it's anti-town to not claim an ascetic ability asap, so the suspicion due to not claiming it is perfectly warranted.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

We need her full claim. Fake claim too. All abilities and events.

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm always around.

[Reasonably Rational]

Yep, kts must be another gem. Only explanation.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Do so. Add a caveat that you've been told thngs by ste en that make him a but more town to you, but his play dosent inspire confidence.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

All of your guys really need to participate in the thread. :/

Skybird: actually, I probably shouldn't be looking over anyone's reads list lol. I don't really have any advice for where to place people, most important thing in my opinion is making sure that the list makes sense with what's happened in thread and with whatever stances and pushes you've made, with maybe some fabricated mistakes in your reasoning/perpetuation of some mistakes somebody else made so you don't look too aware, unless awareness is your thing.

I'll ping drixx and see if he has thoughts about placement.

Either way though, we really need all of you guys actively doing shit in the thread, because right now you're all sticking out a bit

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Why almost over conftown? What do you think of Farside?

Xkyfu is up to claim who he voted for. Then TWIE.

Possible answers: didn't trust mastin or titus' judgment after the mathblade push and flip, A50 is obvtown and seemed to have extra information that would let him make better use of the reward.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Be...super duper careful about that.

And so xkfyu did join them, and he is carrying out his plan of trying to infiltrate the scum team. Alright.
@TWIE: the reason to kill moi is if we're trying to reach vote majority as quickly as possible. If he's a gem, his death puts us closer to activating skybirds extra vote+roleblock+bg.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm not familiar with him, but I'll take your word for it.

I'm pretty uncertain about the best path going forward. We wanted the kc flip so we'd knock out the last support mastin may have, and know of that win condition the gems have requires that they help town, since if it doesn't it opens up the field for mislynches significantly. Once we have that first flip though? There may be better choices.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fair enough. Any progress on dgb, since you're both online right now it seems?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Mo I makes sense as a gem. So does random kinda, since I believe he said something about having information for us when he wanted to ally with us.

Fyi guys, in like 48h Drixx and I are planning on pushing the people who are just sitting back and watching pretty hard. It would be good if ik that time frame all of you were active and providing enough content so we didn't have reason to push you.

-Cerb

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I need to do a run through figuring thIngs out. Titus seems pretty unlikely to be a gem given her apparent ignorance of a lot of stuff gems should know.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

So, MoI, random, klingon, and Yume were the original gems. Xkfyu is peridot. Bismuth and lapis are unknown but fb is probably one of them. Dgb is our traitor. A50, farside, mastin, and Titus are not gems.

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm at a pretty high certainty that she's the traitor. Her gambit claim with klingon doesn't make sense, it must have been a legitimate attempt to find hee teammates, and giving a cop to town is out of character for varsoon, but her presence does explain why there are millers.

The only way to be certain though is get her to full claim to you, both her real and her fake flavor, etc. I don't know how we can do that though.

Her cop power she's claim is like skybirds gem check it seems. When she allies with someone, she learns if they're scum or not.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Because klingon is a miller and dgb ignored the prequel and missed the claim. She also missed my crumb in the prequel.

Basicallu, she fucked up by being lazy and has compromised her slot as a result.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It makes more sense than that she was trying to gambit trick klingon by making such an outlandish claim that there wS no chance an actual scum slot would believe her.

She also made that attempt before there was any evidence that a traitor existed, making it even more likely to be legitimate.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Titus - Not a gem, BP, IC
Xkfyu - Peridot
Almost50 - Cool Kid Buck
DrippingGoofball - Most likely Jaspar
Farside22 - Kevil
Yume - Steven, BG.
mastin2 - Centipeedle, won beachapalooza, can't talk in alliances, has some awesome effect on allies that is useless to town adn useful to scum.
Not Chara -Unknown, unlikely to be a gem
MagnaofIllusion - Gem
randomidget - Gem
Firebringer - Probably Lapis or Bismuth
grapes - Unknown, unlikely to be a gem. reason: Neutralizes powers of those allied to him. Possible, but feels unlikely that a potential member of the gem pt would be a detriment to them when allied to one another.

So, our pool for the last gem is:

Shiro - Unknown
McMenno - Unknown
TheFuzzylogic99 - Unknown
SnarkySnowman - Unknown
Creature - Unknown
Kraskaeaque (kraska77 + lyncanfire) - Unknown

The big problem here is I think whichever of them is the last gem did not know who the gems were, so there won't be any associatives early game. :-/

-Cerb

@Varsoon: Can we use a quote from a PT we have access to for remote detonator, or is it only claims made in the main thread that are usable?

[Reasonably Rational]

Booooooo


:p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yep. Defending yourself is silly, I attempt to only spend time on it when people say really stupid things...but even then you should keep pushing others.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Varsoon: can you please confirm the points for the beach-a-palooza are correct. I feel like you only gave mastin one point for Yume's vote, rather than two, even though the two are technically "allied" with one another. :p don't confirm or deny anything, just please confirm the numbers are accurate...cuz it's sorta making it so the numbers DON'T add up when there's no reason why they shouldn't.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Drixx and I are discussing it. The concerns are 1) losing our mole, 2) she might be bp, 3) it means stress will rise, making the cluster even less likely to be triggered, 4) we lose the surprise option of late game enabling pearl access plus killing a town slot, giving us a sudden win.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Twie, please get dgb to explain wtf is going on. :/

[Reasonably Rational]

Not really. The vote discrepancy MUST be the result of mod error OR a misunderstanding on Titus' part. There should be no extra votes, and with no extra votes there is NO PoE possible until they get some scum flips from among the different voting groups.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It is a mathematical error I think.
But what I'm saying is that after that is resolved. It will become obvious that there are some scum in all the people who haven't voted the top 3 or haven't voted at all.

Town getting this info for nothing is heavily unfair on us.

Well, I didn't have to trigger it. :/ So, sorta my fault. And, well...it's less useful information than you'd think, because titus was right that there are corresponding pairings going on. There do have to be some scum among those who didn't vote, but....it's not exactly a small pool.

[Reasonably Rational]

Okies. So yes you should have given 2 points instead of 1, but you're making an executive decision that their alliance didn't count that way for the beachapalooza.

Got it! :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It's fine. What it really means is that Yume will ask him to clarify as I requested, and he'll answer her in a way that crushes titus'assertions, and we'll be fine.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yume confirmed it's not an alliance there are no point discrepancies, crisis averted, don't push farside but absolute do not get in Titus' way.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, I don't know if anybody else noticed this, but yume claimed to be full BP.

...

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@skybird: you need to ally within this pool:

Shiro - Unknown
McMenno - Unknown
TheFuzzylogic99 - Unknown
SnarkySnowman - Unknown
Creature - Unknown
Kraskaeaque (kraska77 + lyncanfire) - Unknown

Grapes would be here too cuz drixx thinks he said something to make him a gem, but he's already got an alliance set up.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Shadow. I don't want to be a dick bere, but you WILL be costing us your slot if you don't go post and scumhunt. Like, actively. Make some fucking points.

Your entrance was good, people are just scumreading you because of your predecessors inactivity. ...but now you're doing the same thing.
They're going to point to all the different people nvolved in the slot and how they all just didn't do much to scumhunt, and decide you must be scum.

As it stands, you are a slot who is not going to live past today if farside isn't lying about being unlynchable today.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

To all of you: you don't deal with pressure and wagons by disappearing.

That ALWAYS gets you lynched. You need to engage the game and the thread and actually accomplish something to have any hope of changing people's minds about you.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, also shadow....try to not waste your time defending yourself. There isn't a big wagon on you, but there is sentiment against you, and if people see all you do is show up and respond to stuff attacking you, they'll just lynch you because they don't see any game solving.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Please tell me if I'm out of line btw...I'm just trying to help, but that frequently comes across as telling people what to do for me. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Lol. Well, there's a 4+ man effective masonry well need to deal with, soooo better get used to it. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I might be wrong but hasn't mcmenno been allying with mastin two days in a row now?

Probably. Never confirmed. Mastin's allies don't get a pt, but mastin said she submitted him yesterday so he should have some information thst was pmd to him. McMenno didn't figure out an alliance for today I don't believe, so they may have just stuck together.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Twie, is dgb still uninformative?

[Reasonably Rational]

Lol. Did you lay out the fact that at this point, either she's completely full of shit or she's the actual traitor, and if she's the actual traitor AND believes you're one of her teammates, the only way she could possibly hope to get you to believe her would be to do as you ask?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

not like that. but i can bring it up more sarcastically

Sarcasm is fine.

@RR are you ever going to vote people ?

Not until there's a preponderance of evidence against them. We nearly have that with farside, but I really really want this dgb situation figured out before we hit a lynch.

I also have discussion under way with A50.

And town!me would insist on making sure everyone's alliances alliances are figured out for tonight before getting anywhere close to voting for someone who is halfway to a lynch.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@skybird: you need to ally within this pool:

Shiro - Unknown
McMenno - Unknown
TheFuzzylogic99 - Unknown
SnarkySnowman - Unknown
Creature - Unknown
Kraskaeaque (kraska77 + lyncanfire) - Unknown

Grapes would be here too cuz drixx thinks he said something to make him a gem, but he's already got an alliance set up.

-Cerb

A reminder. Also, Shiro shouldn't be on the list, I remember he said something that makes me think he's ronaldo.

Fuzzy and snarky are allying, I don't know if that's a pair you would ever be interested in allying with for the finale, but if so, it's a good opportunity.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

We get two allies tonight....and it won't hurt to ask. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Eh have you expressed a super strong town read on them? There's no real reason to claim that, it's actually against your best interests as a VTfor people to know you're a vt.

If you work with them to run some sort of gambit, say where you report their results if they have any or something, so that way you'd end up shot instead of them, that could make sense...but otherwise just telling people you're a vt doesn't really do anything.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Only 1107 posts till maatin catches up.

...

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Definitely possible.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Mmmm your vote on kraska might be a bad thing for the wagon.:/
We shall see though!


-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Lol. Whenever you have the chance ro address kraskas stuff feel free, if you won't be able to address it don't post here/anywhere else until you have answers. I'll be busy tonightish, but I'll be home in like....15 hours, and if you havent dealt with it by then I'll be able to advise regarding response options if you'd like.

Whenever you do respond, make sure you're not JUST being Beetlejuiced and defendinf, but also probe elsewhere.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Titus has games of brilliance, but she has a tendency to focus on the wrong things sometimes.

Honestly, I don't know what I'm doing advising anyone, I probably have less actual experience playing scum than everyone else here. :p it's Drixx who's the overall scum play virtuoso, I'm just good at not getting lynched.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm going to ignore your question until you bring it to my attention again.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

What might be even more town, btw, is for you to look at my iso and find my answers(because I already gave those answers) and quote those then push me for more details.

If you don't have time, again when I'm home I'll give you post #s for those reads.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Double voting gladiator with a whole team behind her. Yeah. Pretty damn strong.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

A new thought(and really we need you guys commenting TWIE and Skybird): if we remote detnate yume, and there's the mislynch today...stress will be at +4.

This would 1) enable TWIES power, 2) strengthen town protectives, and 3)(and this is the important one): give town access to their high stress events...which could EASILY drive stress all the way back down to -3.

I mean, I just don't see any way for the cluster to EVER trigger effectively, unless town has A LOT of stress reduction.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

My position is that if we're going to trigger it before end game, now is the time to do so, but triggering it AT end game is very very desireable.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You're misunderstanding. High stress means the game is going poorly for town. Town deaths increase stress, scum deaths decreases it. Town favoring events require high stress aND lower it...scum favoring events require low stress and increase it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well mastin is already townreading us. :p anyways, Drixx and I are torn on the issue..Drixx really wants to do it, I'm really attached to a blitzkrieg endgame. Need Twie and skybirds input.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yep, the question is just should we.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Considering the idea is to use it end game, yes, other people will claim 100%.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Nope, not sure. We asked Varsoon about BP mechanics here and he clarified thst whether or not an event kill would work on a BP target depends on the exact wording of the targets BP and rhe event.

For example, SCs BP specifies "normal killing actions", so it would not stop remote detonate. Basically, a BP would need to either specify immunity to event kills, OR specify immunity to ALL kills.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

you may instantly kill that player.

I think this kill should be like strongman.

Well, it wouldn't be affected by normal protections, but it WOULD be affected by protections against events specifically

I sort of want to do it now just to see what it does to the flavor..:p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

So, I'm sorta concerned that DGBs ability to join our team is gated by some sort of event she has to trigger which requires targeting scum slots. :/

I mean, she's not exactly in thr best position in thr game, BUT, in terms of pure power, I think she has to be fairly strong as a role, given what we've seen of the power of just one of the gems. Our greatest strength was the ability to, theoretically, muster 10 votes from 6 slots...but other than that, I don't see much mechanical strength here...which means jaspar must possess a good bit of it. I mean, our events are good, but only usable once we're already on the back foot as it were.

Anyways.

TWIE, I'm not certain what se want to learn from it, but there's little reason to not use it as soon as possible..it's a minor concern though when deciding if we should do the detonation, more like a perk.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

...

You should just ask dgb how she joins her team. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, target with what? The vote control?

Probably mastin, since she has some uber benefit and has no idea who her allies are because she doesn't get a pt with them. ;p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah. If she answers about how she joins her teammates, and it make sense etc, I'd suggest forcing the alliance with mastin. If you think she's the traitor..you guys don't really talk enough for us to figure her out. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

So, I'm thinking assuming this goes through and stress goes up to 2, we're going to bring the farside lynch back up (drixx will at least) and ask for everybody to hold their votes on anyone else. We'll be able to use our hammering kill power due to A50, so I think we should be able to swing a lynch on her, which will prove titus wrong (important, because she's 60% right) and embolden mastin, who is currently way off.

I want us to all be on this lynch, because so far we've defied VCA nicely, not bussing our obviously gonna die teammate, and not voting for the town mislynch at all. Of were ALL on this lynch it will absolutely wreck any sort of analysis Titus and Mastin want to make.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Don't bring that up SS.

Let someone else do it for you. Like Mastin.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

The town confusion is so entertaining.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Meh. I'm currently super demotivated because people are dumb and making really stupid unfounded assumptions. And cuz the thread didn't lock when we sent in thr kill like 10 hours ago and so momentum started shifting tiwards our probable traitor and so now people are just gonna kynch her instead because they're going to think she's connected.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

So yeah, going to sleep. Unrelated, good job SS, you got mastin townreading you at least.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Sorry guys.

Clearly fucked up.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Twie, sky, please be around for once to object to the alliance grapes set up for you thst fucks up things.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

What issue do you have with the current ones?

Twie and skybird are together.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Skybird was removed by Xkfyus event that we told you guys about already, where he can remove all members of his alliance from the game and privately kill one if he wants.

I'm currently my operating off the assumption that skybird is dead.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't see any reason why killing him would help skybird.

Our kill resolves at the end of the night. The effect removing her takes also ends at that time. She will be killed before/ at the same time as our kill.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Are we using TWIE's event? What day are we targeting? What are we hoping to gain from it? Should Drixx and I roleblock A50 (he's going to use an investigative on either shadow_step or grapes tonight, a super tracker, that eill tell him what ability they used and who the target is)? Who do we kill? If skybird dies we don't care about gems anymore, other than to remove people who we won't be able to get lynched, mastin may be BP, Titus almost certainly is.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I mean what's rhe best case scenario for it? Construct a reason to use it beyond learning 3 slots roles, some additional benefit we'd gain.

If all it is gonna do is gain us that knowledge in the best case we should use it now. Otherwise, we should use it later.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Not sure what we'd be looking for honestly. :/ the main thing I'd be curious about is what stopped our kill on grapes N1, so perhaps finding who suspected skybird and may have blocked her, and who was obviously townreading grapes and may have protected him, could be worthwhile?

Other than that, no idea really. Had some thought of using it to buy you town cred if it looked like one of us was going to be lynched, by cat ching is making a kill, but that's not really an option, nor is it a good choice right now.

Also, you can't really claim the event, since using it means you didn't contribute to fighting the cluster, which will bother people, so it should basically be used in an obviously beneficial to scum way..however, that just makes it so if town decides to do an event claim after nobody claims this, you'll be without any claim to make. :/

Lot of things ro consider, and I'm far from certain what to do.

[Reasonably Rational]

Titus can be BP Drixx. She could be a bad kill. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh. I meant to say mastin is bp.


Because they can honestly both be bp quite easily.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Titus is claiming BP but then said it was a sham, but now it's supposedly passive.

But I am suggesting a Mastin kill anyway.

Titus never said it was a sham.

Later she said she received it from Yume.

The ONLY reason to think she was lying waa because she counterclaimed SC, which she wouldn't have done if she KNEW her ability was given to her, rather than something innate with her role.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

DGBs a fucking failure who didn't even read the fucking game. Who even fucking allies with a claimed miller as a traitor cop, when there are three other slots who have crumbed things to make you think k they could be your teammates? (Yume, myself, and FB)?

I made this post to quote in the post game discussion.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Just using it to use it is bad. :p likex what's the town motivation in using it?

[Reasonably Rational]

She says she isnt, she's publicly doubting me and wants farside to come after me.

If she is lying about that and really does scum read me...I have no idea.

I'm the one who suggested we test farside by using the low stress thing. Makes no sense for me to bring thst up at scum. :/
:

[Reasonably Rational]

Ugh.

So maatin copped you TWIE, but doubts her result/believes you have a killing action.

You need a fake claim that includes an ability that can result in someone's death before you show up anywhere.

[Reasonably Rational]

She must have used the gunsmith, or she wouldn't have phrased thr guilty the way she did.

[Reasonably Rational]

And yes, having a vig that's only usable at 3/4 stress would work. So would any number of other abilities thst can kill someone.

[Reasonably Rational]

Ya, seems reasonable. They'll ask you if you know what's true among the claims. What's the reason for choosing skybird?

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah. Neither does skybird though. :/

You can say you picked me potentially. Not sure if more associatives would be good or not though. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hmm. Maybe your primary suspect list was less than 3? So you threw in skybird to minimize information scum might gain?

[Reasonably Rational]

That must be a season finale thing snarky has going on btw.

Nobody else reported it, and they would have...gotta check and make sure he was allied in thr past.

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh. Something you guys need to know the gems got a cop clear on kraska, and Titus told us about it.

Twie, we need to keep you alive one more day if possible, so we can trigger return to earth and lynch you tomorrow and get ourselves at least an extra kill out of your caught slot...unless we think we can save you 100% of the time? Were too low on members to risk defending one another imo, town will feel confident just risking mislynches on weak associatives.

[Reasonably Rational]

*sigh* I should have suggested you claim your investigative.

Titus won't believe you strictly because your claim doesn't fit the pattern of other roles. Sorry, didn't consider that.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

what's the scum motivation of revealing he did it

Two reasons.

1) it's so unbearably scummy the way he did it that simply admitting he did it will get him townread by some people.
2)if he doesn't claim it and doesn't give town as much information as possible if a mass claim ever happens he'd be left without an event to claim, o forced to claim it at a time when it will look even scummier.

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah, theres a shitload in our favor to keep us alive till end gamw. I'm currently trying to figure out what 3/4 man lylp/mylo we can win.

The biggest problem I see right now is titus has my roleblock.if twie dies, and stress is not at at least-2, then we willnot be able to kill tonight and she'll lynch us tomorrow. Our only way out o that scenario is if you claim to ally us, while we target titus for our ally tonight, so the roleblock wont work.....but then we end up in a 1v1 with you tomorrow
(Claiming we submitted you and you mist not have submitted us) OR we have to lie about us being in an alliance together.

I don't know which would be better.

[Reasonably Rational]

It's not a matter of whether she wants to or not. She knows I'm VT now, so practically speaking there is no reason to not block me. The only reason she might not want to block me is because shiro can make our alliance into a permanent hood, and if she'll block him as well then she won't want to block me. I don't think that permanent hood will be so valuable to her with the position town is in.

[Reasonably Rational]

If Farside's around and we can get snarky at 5 votes, she might just hammer him for us.

Her multivoting would bypass any trigger kraska may have set for using his power too.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You should probably ignore me if you can. Talk to xkfyu etc in your pt with them.

We don't want to distract from snarky momentum and make them realize you're the perfect compromise lynch.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

trivializing my questions works too. Lol.

-Cerb

Pedit : ya, that's true. That D1 fuck up with alliances may indeed come in handy.

[Reasonably Rational]

Umm.

Did xk claim that he killed skybird to you guys?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

:/ weak yo, but alright.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Holy shit she did it for us.

!!

[Reasonably Rational]

Ss, offer to ally with xkfyu in your pt.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Tonight we activate return to earth.

Almost nobody will be able to vote tomorrow.

Town forced to no lynch most likely, or requires 100% of available votes for a lynch.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Lol nope. ::p

Too bad we don't actually have an extra kill..Varsoon said the cluster kills if any occur, will be clearly marked as occurring due to the cluster.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Twie who are you allied with? The alliance pts are usable tonight, so you can ally with whoever your other pt mate was.

Same thing with SS.

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay, I'll look at alliance sometime today and see who was with who today, and cross reference that with the gem list, so we can see who the potential pairings are. We have a small pool we basically need to kill within to cut down on all these conftown slots, so we need to remove whichever one of then is most likely to also deny another town slot an alliance.

Pedit: got it, that sucks. Alright.

[Reasonably Rational]

They can't now.

Night started at -4, so we have full access to everything.

So we kill Titus, the roleblocking BP IC, yes?

The only problem with that is its not a kill you'd make with a vig shot, but I think it's a kill we have to make...and worst case right now is you'll get lynched tomorrow and we'll get am extra kill, and your flip will line up farside as a mislynch the next day.

Best case is town won't have enough votes to actually lynch you because of the day getting cut short.

[Reasonably Rational]

So optimal play is to have SS submit the kill, BUT we know that A50 has a tracking power which will always succeed tonight, and will tell him everything about the action taken by his target...and he was voting for SS, making it more likely that SS will be his target.

If we expect that TWIE will have to be lynched at some point, then he should submit the kill right? Thoughts?
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Killing titus also denies farside her alliance, so she won't be able to do any multivoting to ensure a lynch tomorrow.

Pedit: alright. So TWIE kills titus, activate Return to Earth, and that's it right?

[Reasonably Rational]

We don't know, but it seems likely she does, because she said something about how her N1 action would have shown up if she had realized she should claim it.

[Reasonably Rational]

He's a smart guy. He'll figure it out.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Kraska clear was fake. Titus lied to us because she was paranoid we were scum.

So that's one less thing to worry about.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

A consideration that was brought up by titus again: our kill tonight may still fail, if titus gets bubbled to protect her, as Firebringer was.

I don't think we can let that change our course of action though unfortunately. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Umm, if bubbling counts as a commute,I dontbelieve it would. And I don't think varsoon can tell us...

[Reasonably Rational]

I figured out a way to ask that doesn't involve varsoon telling us how the bubbling works. Just asked if our -4 stress kill ignored roleblocks/redirection/protection, OR of it was function all promoted to the top of NAR and thus resolved before anything else could stop it...or both I guess.


-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

They're actually right. Mastin is more correct than titus is right now, but titus is capable of backing us into a corner because she stole my rb. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, and mastin is also someone we can try to kill through conventional means later on since we know she didn't pick the BP.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Varsoon's answer was not helpful. I say fuck it, kill titus, if it fails and she gets bubbled in spite of our ability saying that any effect would save them will fail, I'll just bitch at Varsoon post game for making a foil to our supposed unstoppable kill, while simultaneously putting in an obvious target for said kill.

TWIE kills Titus
Trigger Return to Earth
RR allies Randomiget.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

No its fine, town will no lynch today, and we'll just kill someone tonight. We actually need a longer period of time until lylo so we can remove all the conftown.

That's why it waa good to use the event, it's only useful if we're going to have a scum lynch the next day, or to force a no lynch.

[Reasonably Rational]

And, well. Nobody is going to fucking suspect that the entire scum team let themselves be voteless.

[Reasonably Rational]

A no lynch means no kynch happened, so th day did not end in a lynch. :p

Looks like kraska a gonna end the event though.

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, we kept our pt with shiro, so we can still talk to him, but it has no mechanical effect.

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, you should town it the fuck up in the main thread man.

[Reasonably Rational]

So farside WAS targeted by someone last night. So the risk of saying you targeted her is decreased. But maybe not necessary, you could just go with the roleblock thing, in which case you should pick a lurker and say that's who you tried to shoot.

Or be crazy and just say you didn't try to shoot anyone. :p
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Random is gambiting to see who bites.

[Reasonably Rational]

Call him out on claiming the vent though, that's total wtf

[Reasonably Rational]

Claiming fared is risk because she knows smoke tried to target her last night, and that person can Cc you. :/

[Reasonably Rational]

Looking like it, lol.

[Reasonably Rational]

Plan worked almost perfectly, except town has a way to stop the event...and the one slot who we care the most about denying voting to can still vote because she lked to the thread and the IC.

Pedit: farside has at least 9 points left if her previous claim was true.

If there's not a cap on how may votes she can generate, then they could lynch with just the two of them.

[Reasonably Rational]

We can no lynch.

Also, kraska will use their power to drop stress and then stop this event, so it'll be back to normal game play soon most likely.

[Reasonably Rational]

That's fine. Chillax, unless you're obviously posting in other games but not here.

[Reasonably Rational]

Cool. Take your time then. Mastin won't be around until late tonight, hut its also the weekend, so she MIGHT not show up at all. I'd wait until tomorrow morning, and if she hasn't posted by then, make a move.

Honestly, it's entirely possible farside will be lynched before then if we get all the checks in and kraska ends the event. ;p

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay np I'll wait
Also a heads up: I just noticed the meter is at 0, so I'll have to drop the meter by 2 before I can stop the event(i can only stop events if stress is at -1 or lower)

-1, and she has a power to manipulate stress.

[Reasonably Rational]

TWIE: Been talking to Drixx, he said you should just claim you shot at farside, but WERE NOT TOLD you were blocked by her, and that you have no idea why she's still alive because you didn't think ascetic worked on kills.

You said shiro's actions were one of the ones you modified to be accurate, which means that he did not target her on N1.

That means that a roleblock of him which occurred via her on N1(as she claimed she did) happened as a result of a targeted roleblock of some sort, NOT her automatic reflexive roleblock.

You can use this later on as further implication of her guilt, since obviously you were blocked by her since she knew you had a vig to use.

[Reasonably Rational]

So there's a nonzero chance that farside will just hammer us at some point, which is a little concerning. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Lol, I'm not conftown, and I'm the last person who would assert I am when I know there are definite ways I could be scum. ;p

And yeah....we did bring it on ourselves, but we couldn't trust Shiro to make this push the way we could trust Titus to.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Twie, I need to know right now, have you just given up, or is there an objective to making posts like that "welp"?

[Reasonably Rational]

Got it. Sorry, to me it reads as "welp, I'm caught and can't do anything about it".

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh. Right, yes, chara could be lapis too.

TWIE: at some point you might want to ask farside about roleblocking shiro, since you revealed shiros actions and he didn't target her on N1.

[Reasonably Rational]

Just be careful. Even though farside said she thought you probably weren't scum, she's voting you, and she's worth 4 votes. Just needs two more votes in you to hammer right now, amd having her hammer scum diminishes our ability to get her mislynched.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Wow. Town is really gonna lynch Creature over you or Farside.

How is this even possible?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Nice save Cerb

Thanks! And yeah. This is far too tense, for how good thingd seemed at day start.

Fairly irritated at our poor luck, the no lynch plan was perfectly set up, except the one friggin slot who could stop it happened to have access to abilities because the other friggin slot lied to conftown.

*sigh*

[Reasonably Rational]

We really cant afford to have farside hanging around..I can delay and sow doubt and slow things down for lynches and create space for wiggling out of them, but not if all it takes is a couple people voting for hammers to happen. :/

[Reasonably Rational]

Love how magna is missing the fact that we actually had another double voter from SC, and that in season finale it would have been a triple vote(though it couldn't have hammered), and that the pearl could vote too, and tbus could have hammered.

Remove all gems, coordinate with dgb by planning events the day prior, and we could have controlled 11 votes at the season finale if we all allied togethee, in our best case scenario.

[Reasonably Rational]

Not sure, honestly. I pushed him towards it a bit in our pt when he suggested that we should just lynch TWIE because he has a guilty on him and it's the safest bet...and I asked him if he really wanted to go on day after day afraid farside would start a sequence of quicklynches to end the day...and he said zi had a good point, but didn't vote her. :p

Random is having a crisis right now I imagine. He townreads me and trusts my judgment historically, and agrees with me personally,, but he KNOWS MoI shares his goals and MoI completely disagrees with me.

[Reasonably Rational]

Made the last post without running it by drixx. Objective is to remove all town cred farside might gain if a twie hammer does end up happening by suggesting she do it.

[Reasonably Rational]

Lol yeah. She's being eminently practical, and it's terrible.

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't think a guilty on our slot is possible?

We roleblocked yume N2, while killing someone else. Only actions we've taken. If NC had a result on us that would be a virtual guilty, such as tracker or watcher, they would have expressed it on D3 right? Our prior claim makes us immune to gunsmiths...and our role is not scum in aND of itself, especially since dgb is a known roleblocker for scum.

[Reasonably Rational]

Do it!

I really am getting tired of the arguing though. :/

[Reasonably Rational]

This, uh, last post there, is hedging. Ideally farside hammers creature, and our vote on twie pushes her away from him. If it doesn't. ..then at least we're on the scum wagon ?

[Reasonably Rational]

So, the question is who kills? It's unlikely town has another tracker besides A50, and his power is one shot, refilled on finale. Do they have a watcher? MoI probably isn't the most likely kill for them to suspect if they do.

I sort of want to send SS on principle since your power to kill is now available to you, but that's not a good reason..

[Reasonably Rational]

Ah. That is very good to know.

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah...if they're not all lying, deck seems pretty stacked yo. And all the things that we used to "even" things out...were only options because our team was dropping like flies.

TFL concerns me a bit. Obviously I can't have him shooting me, and A50 is an integral part of ensuring we win in LYLO. :-/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Lol yeah. I think town should know that A50 knew about Xkfyus power though. I'll have to check my iso and his, but if it's in the thread, you can point thst out to him as the reason why myself and A50 don't make sense as scum. A shot at a gem would be best, yeah, but idk if he'd do it. We might want to shoot mastin tonight over MoI, since fuzzy is suspicious of moi, and leave him that potential target as well. Also, shooting mastin who is a staunch defender of both of us makes us look good, much more so than shooting moi does.

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah, as long as they're allied they can choose which of them dies if they'd be nk'd

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well they won't be allied tomorrow, so we can make sure the one we want dead dies.

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah. The game won't hit positive stress before it ends unless we use our event, so all of towns extra powers should be turned off until the season finale.

[Reasonably Rational]

Mmm, you allying with mastin is so useless. :p adds a bit of upside to shooting her though, since she's willing to make you harder to lynch.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yes, A50's tracker shot will be refunded so he can track tomorrow night. Allying with mastin is possible, but it's super out of character for Drixx and myself, since we know we can't actually talk to her and it will just waste that whole opportunity. On the other hand, since we're already allied with shiro and connected to A50 through him, it's not wholly unreasonable for us to be willing to lose the benefits of a season finale alliance in exchange for learning what her ability is and helping us put the pieces together for the game.

Good point about farside too.

[Reasonably Rational]

Holy shit they might give us the empowered shot.

[Reasonably Rational]

A50 makes it so his allies actions can't fail on the season finale. Drixx and I wanted to ally with him, but couldn't suggest it because we know about that benefit, and as a slot with absolutely nothing to offer for empowering it doesn't make sense for us to ask for that alliance.


Since HE suggested it though....

And yes, mastin will likely have np allying with you again, to protect her town read from town making a mistake. You, her, and random is perfectly plausible.

[Reasonably Rational]

*shrug* there was a chance. And framing today as lynch you or shoot farside versuss shoot you/lynch farside would have been beneficial I think. *sigh* Anyways, we'll try to salvage this. TFL doesn't have any of the benefit of having shot you at least, so he's mislynchable, especially after he didn't shoot you last night.

[Reasonably Rational]

*sigh*

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah. It's pure wifom etc.

Pretty sure with a long day I could have convinced fuzzy to consider shooting someone besides you or farside though. Not sure I'll be able to get him to shoot farside like I want...and if he doesn't shoot farside and won't shoot grapes...only options are me or A50. :-/

[Reasonably Rational]

Gotta fight it a bit, because I need fuzzy to not shoot me tonight. :/

[Reasonably Rational]

Grapes whole thing is interesting, I think he's upset because I'M not upset about creatures mislynch, when in all honesty I feel terrible about it. If anyone ever reads the log from drixx and I, they'll see that I specifically say how shitty it feels to get mislynches on people who are genuinely nice good people who just happened to make a mistake that the rest of the town pounced on. People like MoI act like assholes and I wouldn't care about seeing them mislynched, but creature? I feel bad about that.

I'd feel better about it as town, than I do as scum, because it wouldn't have been deliberate.

Either way, I wouldn't express any sort of emotional response.

[Reasonably Rational]

So, I was thinking earlier that we're completely screwed.

The whole shiro getting conftowned too was a problem, but...I realized even though he's a mislynch that's gone, he's also a mislynch that's CERTAIN our slot is town. if we make it to 3 man lylo, we've already won. If we make it to 4 man lylo, we've *probably* won.

It's just getting there that's going to be really really hard.

[Reasonably Rational]

If grapes is lapis, we could put the game into kingmaker the next day, if the gems unbubble shiro. If they don't, we could just win outright.

Remove all humans and crystal gems and we're left with grapes, mastin, and us, with grapes as a leftover deciding who to have win.

[Reasonably Rational]

Thanks man. So many options now, and if we pick the wrong one we instalose. Ah well. in sure we'll figure it out.

[Reasonably Rational]

Ya know, even though her arguments are myopic(there are many reasons for the events this game to have happened besides the ones she's suggesting), mastins appraisal of the game state is quite accurate. If we live through today, we're more likely to win than lose.

The main concern is that our path to winning involves shooting her tonight, which means tomorrow becomes just as dangerous since obviously were the one who benefits the most from shooting at her. If we shot at MoI, which we'd prefer, they'd most likely just have random take the bullet, which would make us very vulnerable.

Also, for the record, I did not realize mastin was allied with grapes. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Varsoon: I have neither the time nor inclination to put the work into this that arguing with mastin+going through the game and putting out legitimate content and analysis requires, and my hydra partner has been on vacation for a good while and will be gone for another day or so at least.

I tell you this because right now the only "town me" content I can possibly put forth is laying out the rather limited pool of suspects, which includes myself, and indicating that I lack the time to actually figure out which of the other options is scum(if I throw away all pre-existing beliefs) and just tell the town that they should just lynch me because I'm not going to be able to be very helpful anytime soon(that is, the only town me content that is actually going to *do* something other than saying "i'm town, so obviously we have to lynch someone else because lynching me today is a 0% chance of success while lynching someone else is a 25% chance of success(if we assume myself, random, MoI, and mastin are all guaranteed to be town").

The hope here would be that said willingness will ensure that someone such as A50 puts themselves forward as a preferable lynch to myself, but the concern is that it would be practically playing against win con(particularly since to do it convincingly I'd have to vote myself, putting myself at l-2 with one slot(TFL) having displayed willingness to vote me already.

So, eh, yeah, question to you Varsoon: is this a valid line that wouldn't be penalized?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

...

Motherfucker.

Grapes event fucks our plan hard(and proves that our idea of slingshotting stress down to -4 to enable the cluster could have worked. :p

But yeah, the plan was to kill MoI then random, leaving mastin alive until end game, and triggering keeping it together, to put the game at +4 stress tomorrow. That would make it so there were 6 alive, so 4 to lynch+1 from stress, meaning ANY lynch would require everyone else be on the wagon. This would either tie town up into ridiculous knots they could never agree on lynches, or simply make it highly improbable that we'd be lynched, ESPECIALLY after we spent a second day finishing off the gems instead of mastin. In mylo the stress thing still applies, so at 4 alive it would take all 4 to lynch, thereby ensuring no lynch is possible that day, and giving us one extra day to shoot mastin OR shiro(who would both be conftown at that point), and leaving us with an A50/us/mast in or shiro lylo to win.

Grapes event fucks that.

[Reasonably Rational]

So we discussed it, and decided to carry on with the plan. Not shooting gems allows a guaranteed loss for us by allowing a gem to bubble us after a mylo lynch, which won't be prevented because stress won't be that high.

Carrying on with the original plan at least gives the chance that grapes won't be able to trigger his event during the day and will thus be suspect for asking for one more day when if he's part of a two man scum team, that one day will guarantee his teams victory if town mislynches.

If grapes CAN use his power during the day, I don't believe there is any target he could have thst would allow us to win. If tfl gets lynched, the gems bubble someone, we kill someone, and grapes takes out someone else, a game state with no earth aligned individuals could be possible, but it would require that the gems not release the person they bubbled, and just seems improbable. Unfortunately shooting at a gem rather than a non gem means this line of victory isn't possible tomorrow, but it means we aren't guaranteed to lose.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I played my heart out...I have not always played well this game but I did my best to help town win/ The only way I am saved if Almost does not so up in time. I am not sure that would be good for the town though.

This breaks my heart.


-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

For the record, Drixx and I did not make any plans to ignore or evade mastins request, it was just lost in her walls. :/ Otherwise we could have easily addressed it days ago.

I was actually composing a post outline what to do in the current circumstances when the thread locked.

Luckily, Mastin will be alive tomorrow, so we get to see about bringing her around.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Varsoon: This is what I said I'd bring up to you in skype when I got home.

Why I don't think it's mathematically possible to win at this point:

Assumptions:

All claims made in public are true.
Gems can bubble once per season(A one shot factional power that's refilled on season finales), which is in keeping with the timing of Shiro's bubbling, and can thus bubble once this season
Mastin, MoI, and Randomidget can not be lynched.
At 4p or less, Shiro can't be lynched, due to that confirming he is not part of a pair of scum.
Grapes can, at +4 stress, remove himself and someone else from the game, giving them the same benefit as Shiro.
Mastin and grapes will ally tonight, proving to the town that tomorrow is not mylo, and therefore clearing both grapes and shiro.

Our options:
1) Activate keeping it together, while shooting MoI(or random). This will put stress up to +3 when we include fuzzy's flip, with stress going up to +4 when the gems reveal MoI or random's flip.

These will be the living players

Mastin
Randomidget
Shiro
Grapes
RR
A50

At +4 stress, Grapes can use his power. If he uses it during the day, he and A50 will be removed from the game. When the game does not end at that point, it will be known that there is a scum within (Shiro, RR). Because there will only be 4 alive at that time, and stress is at +4, a lynch will be impossible, and it will be known that Shiro is not anti-town.

That night, the gems bubble RR. Our faction loses.

If Grapes can only use his power at night, this same scenario plays out, except one of RR/A50 is lynched because such a lynch will be possible. Assume A50. That night, Grapes removes one of Shiro/RR from the game, while the gems attempt to bubble grapes(this prevents them from losing if grapes was lying and is scum with someone). The bubble fails/doesn't matter, and the game either ended during the night, or it is CONFIRMED that RR has an anti-town role, and they are lynched.

2) Do not activate keeping it together, while shooting MoI(or random)
Grapes is brought to lynch, and is not lynched because mastins power is still functioning. Town now KNOWS that there can not be 2 scum alive, and grapes is cleared, along with shiro(because if there is only one scum alive, then when shiro was bubbled town would have won).

Conftown
Mastin
Random
Grapes
Shiro

Suspects
A50
RR

Lynch one, bubble the other.

3) Do not activate keeping it together, while shooting mastin
Grapes is lynched tomorrow, a gem is shot in the night, mylo is

conftown
Random
Shiro(because there are only 4 alive now, which means there could not have been 2 scum)

Suspects
A50
RR

Lynch one, bubble the other.

The only thing we're currently playing for is essentially to determine whether or not the gems are allowed to make it to endgame and win with town. There is no way for our faction to win, barring the existence of a malevolent 3p that kills the gems, or a lynch on a gem.

Even if we manage to get grapes mislynched because in scenario 1 he can only use his power at night, and town is paranoid about allowing him to live until the night+doens't realize they can simply secure the win by attempting to bubble him, we STILL lose.

Why?

Grapes gets lynched. We shoot random. Random bubbles *SUSPECT(A50)*.

One of two thigns will occur at this point.

A50 will be released, or A50 will stay gone.

If A50 is released, and his bubbling happened and the game didn't end, he is now confirmed to be town.

The game will be

Shiro(Conftown due to 4 alive)
Mastin(Conftown)
A50(Conftown)
RR

They will not be able to lynch us on that day because we will not vote for ourselves, allowing us to shoot A50 or Mastin or Shiro, but the next day we will be lynched.

If A50 stays gone, the game will now be

Shiro(Conftown due to 4 alive)
Mastin(Conftown)
RR

They will then be able to lynch us, and we will lose.

Only if us shooting random somehow denies his bubble do we have a chance to force the mislynch on A50.

So, Varsoon, if us shooting random wouldn't deny the bubble, just ask the gems if they'd bubble us tonight. If they won't, the'yre going to all die and won't be able to win. If they would, then they will win with the town. Either way, playing out the rest of this is fairly meaningless.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'd like to note that these scenarios do not require "good" town play. They merely require town acting on the assumptions they've been playing with all game, and the mathematically certainty of certain mechanics.

-Cerb

Oh, and there's alos a fourth option, of activating keeping it together while we shoot mastin.

In that scenario, stress will be at +4, grapes can use his power, AND the gems will be able to bubble at lylo. It's simply inferior to the other scenarios with this many conftown around.

[Reasonably Rational]

Activate Keepng It Together
Shoot MoI
Submit Grapes for our ally

[Reasonably Rational]

Returning grapes to the game and having him remove shiro and himself isn't as disastrous as it seems The game will be at 4 with +4 stress, therefore the lynch threshold will be at 4 and a no lynch will be forced. Town will know one scum exists within A50/us. The next day, we'll be at 5 and thus there is nothing mastins power could do to confirm grapes isn't scum. It'll be difficult to convince them to lynch in the grapes/shiro pool rather than the us+A50 pool though, but if we accomplish that we arrive at a 3p lylo with either grapes/shiro, OR mastin, as conftown. If they lynch A50, then they always lynch us the next day because it's guaranteed we're scum.

It would have been best for us had we not used the event, given that grapes was removed, but there was no reason to think the gems would waste their bubble like that. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I umm, I think I just threw.

I meant to say LYLO, not MYLO.

I accidentally directly pointed A50 right at the one assumption that we need them to be wrong about.

Desperate save time.

[Reasonably Rational]

Given that Varsoon's last post was on Tuesday, a full four days ago, and given the delay in how long it takes to release grapes given this, I think we would be within our rights to ask for one.

Mod: can we have a deadline extension?

V's normally pretty accommodating for things like this, especially if he thinks that he himself could in any way be partially responsible for it.

Agreed/seconded.

Also, just a thought I had: I actually think it might make more sense to have grapes remove us or A50, and just lynch Shiro. A50 because the argument you're making is that he's playing in a scummy defensive fashion...which means he's the most likely suspect from that perspective, which just means removing him there makes the most sense.

And removing us is to save us the ignominy of being lynched and also save us the trouble of being questioned while we figure things out tomorrow if something goes wrong.

-Cerb

@Varsoon: The above is a lie. The remaining scum members want there to be as little time as possible. A large part of our plan for today(and the reason for the shitstorm between Drixx and Mastin, which was stirred up very deliberately) was to delay the time when grapes would come back and minimize the chances of A50 having time to fall on his sword, so we actually go into the night with a no lynch.

[Reasonably Rational]

The next to last post is legitimately my rant to drixx.

The last post is what so wanted to immediately post in response to her but decided not to at first.

-Cerb