Shadow Realm

[Kagami]

Mollie, you should have gotten my orb piece.

[Kagami]

Going to bed, but let's chat tomorrow.

Pretty sure zito had an ability that ended the day early and used it when he hit L-1, but I'm curious what conclusion Dunn had come to.

[Kagami]

Here are unfiltered thoughts, I'll probably wait until people post their start-of-day stuffs before doing too much in main thread unless meetings are boring.

Firstly, SAD kill seems like a kill on a player that scum find inconvenient now or difficult to lynch later. Also suggests that the scum is not going for orb-pieces, as both Drealz and Dunn very obviously had one going into N1. Scumteams featuring zito, camn, or dunn have the most to gain from the kill, I think.

I don't understand how people aren't coming to the obvious conclusion that Zito ended the day early, in the 15 minute gap between camntsuki's vote and Dunn's vote. The weird thing about that, though, is that zito doesn't seem like he's really keeping an eye on the game regardless of alignment, and it would be quite a coincidence for him to show up at just the right time like that.

I've been in a game where actionDan-scum had an ability that ended the day immediately. Iirc Katsuki was scum with Dan in that game, so it's surprising that the hydra doesn't have anything to say about it.

I want to think that it was actually Dunn who ended the day, faked a Hammer on scumbuddy zito that he knew wouldn't go through, then killed SAD, who was his scumpartner in the Dance that just finished, and had him as a scumread. He then gave me his orb piece (the other player in this list who was in the dance game) as a means of mollifying me.

Unless there's a town governor claim, I still want to lynch zito. I don't get why he's oddly popular despite magically avoiding lynch and despite the death of one of his strongest wagon supporters.

[Kagami]

since I just mentioned it, btw, Dunn gave me his orb piece.

[Kagami]

if dunn is town here, then drealz is pretty suspect. I don't see any reason whatsoever to crumb that you have an orb piece unless you're not worried about being NKed.

[Kagami]

Nacho continues not to impress. Willing to give him a couple RL days.

I feel like fate is trying to get us to figure out what Nacho is with the goofy PRs (new one seems to be the Mlem mlem thing) if it's real. They don't seem like "mod trolling a player PRs," but rather "this player is this kind of thing, which talks funny."

[Kagami]

if dunn is town here, then drealz is pretty suspect. I don't see any reason whatsoever to crumb that you have an orb piece unless you're not worried about being NKed.

Should add that the annoying softing is also pretty much the only thing he's done.

Pretty ballsy play for a newscum though, so idk. Makes a lot of sense as town trying to be tricky, and then scum-dunn using that to have some "clever" town-looking off-the-wall read.

[Kagami]

O, and I had no idea you had a neighborhood with Dunn, where did you get that idea, and why did you ask to be neighborized?

[Kagami]

I thought you needed to have a PT to have superpowers, but you already had one?

[Kagami]

RC and Staeg are people who are seriously not making waves too.

[Kagami]

No role flips is obnoxious. How am I supposed to know what a Ritual Caster is?

[Kagami]

Camntsuki could also have ended the day shortly after making the L-1 vote, which would explain why they didn't mention the ActionDan thing.

[Kagami]

I take it you would prefer filtering.

[Kagami]

Don't buy "frustration" as a compelling reason for Spyrex's nonsense, btw, but stand by zito and spyrex being unlikely to be scum together (which means not both scum given no extra kills).

[Kagami]

Rather, that frustration doesn't mean town. It's not hard to be frustrated as scum, especially when one feels like he was caught over some detail.

[Kagami]

I'd have to sell myself on it first, mollie. I will take care to keep things filtered, though I was sort of hoping for yarrrrgami v2.0

[Kagami]

I strongly agree that I expect town-Nacho to be doing things that this-Nacho isn't doing, and that he's generally being extremely lazy with reads.

[Kagami]

I'm waiting for someone to say "I am town and I ended the day early," before I worry too much about anything.

If that doesn't happen, then the day ended because scum made it end, which makes absolutely no sense if zito is town.

[Kagami]

I don't think he super scumread Dunn, and if he did, I would think it somewhat less likely that Dunn would kill him. I think he had Dunn floating as a latent scumread, placing him scummier than 6 people (half the town) and then putting him in a top 3 lynch list, which scum-dunn would have reason to want out of the game.

[Kagami]

I am not planning to lynch anyone whose name is not "Papa Zito."

[Kagami]

I feel you're not listening to what I'm saying, and I'm hoping that's because I started out saying a lot of things.

I am not pushing Dunn, I am not saying Dunn is very high probability scum, I am not even really thinking too much about Dunn beyond what I was mulling over last night, which included a specific narrative in which Dunn is scum. I "see" what you say above, but Dunn being scum implies that scum doesn't care much about the orb, which we already know to be the case since they almost certainly knew the orb existed before today, yet they prioritized killing SAD.

I don't disagree on Nacho; he's pretty likely to be scumacho. I am not going to lynch him over Zito in the absence of an explanation for the day mysteriously ending just prior to Zito being lynched, which is a massive elephant in the room that people seem oddly oblivious to. If such an explanation arises, I'm on board the nacho wagon.

[Kagami]

I wrote a big thing, but I decided not to hit submit, which I think is best. I'm going to give this hood one more shot.

I came in here and posted my thoughts. I don't care if they don't line up with your world-view, that wasn't the point. This isn't the outside thread, "throwing shade" means nothing unless you want to tell me how that has anything to do with "pushing" Dunn, which I continue not to have done anywhere.

In your first quote, I've written an objective analysis of the NK, which includes Dunn's name. You can go ask Dunn about it and he will likely agree that scum-Dunn kills SAD with high probability. In your second quote, I've described a specific narrative that would make a lot of sense to my mind, but I am far from certain is the case.

In your paragraph, you say I'm focusing on Dunn's vote but not Nacho's. This is not relevant, since the only reason Dunn's vote is interesting in the context I presented is that it surrounds the Day-Ending action. i.e. The Day mysteriously ended in the 15 minutes between camn's and Dunn's vote. If Nacho had been the final or penultimate vote, I'd be saying Nacho there instead of camn or Dunn, but he wasn't. I don't care about the reasons for any of the votes right now, and haven't talked about that.

I disagree wholeheartedly on zito as you already know, and I do my best to unpack that for you:

There are several ways Zito can be town- 1) A town-aligned player could have ended the day because that player really, really thinks zito is town and didn't want to see him be lynched. 2) A scum-aligned player could have ended the day because he wanted to frame zito. 3) Zito himself did it, and is town.

Now let's go over those-
1) This is possible, but that town-aligned player will claim the action. This is what I'm currently waiting for.
2) This is extremely unlikely. Town-Zito could easily have some power that makes him obviously town, or he could be investigated, or he could just worm his way out of it somehow. That would be a massive waste of an extremely powerful scum ability, when they have everything to gain by simply allowing him to be mislynched. The action was also done with

urgency

; it was done within 15 minutes of camn placing the L-1 vote. I don't think they make that decision so readily to save town from mislynching.
3) This is vaguely possible, but it means that Zito, despite never making an actual post, was watching the thread like a hawk to make sure that he could end the day the moment he hit L-1. He decided to do this rather than just tell us that he's not going to allow himself to be lynched and giving us a chance to lynch elsewhere, despite there being a lot of other possibilities and few people really

wanting

the Zito lynch. I just don't think that makes sense from town-zito.

Now for Nacho. I clearly don't possess the confidence you do on this. I think he has a very strong chance of being scum. I think his iso is unimpressive even for his scum self, and I think his most recent vote is more than a little shallow. He could legitimately have time issues and that's generally bringing down his game, or he could just be upset about having drawn scum again against some of his favorite players. I like that he acknowledged me yesterday, and I liked that he made the Zito wagon the compromise, which represents a serious reach-out toward me. I usually have a pretty good feel on Nacho's alignment, and that feel is not telling me "100% scum, lynch with much gusto."

Going to go for a minute, but I have questions for you.

[Kagami]

So I have questions:

You say you have a hood with Dunn. Why didn't you tell me about this when it should have been obvious I was responding to your request for a PT (which you apparently already had)?

Why did you voice suspicion about a nahdia-dunn-drealz hood in 740?

Both you and Dunn have been jumping on me whenever I've hypothesized Dunn-scum as if that's a strange thought to have. Is this related to your PT? Why are you so super confident he's town?

[Kagami]

Going to be brief because I had a company outing that involved more drinking than I am comfortable with, but I am very certain that nacho talked about my code post in a way that he recognized I was trying hard to get something from him.

I am not saying anything that is untrue in the slightest, so I'd that's a problem, we should be able to sort it out.

My ability is that I neigjborize die one night/day phase. I can do it every night.

[Kagami]

eh, if I have anything I want to say privately, sure, but I feel like this got in the way more than it helped.

You'll still have it tonight if you have a role that interacts with the PT.

[Kagami]

and of course we can chat at night, which will be nice.

[Kagami]

That's an odd sentiment o.o

I don't think it was a bad choice, per se, and I feel a lot better after the weekend break.

[Kagami]

Ok. I'm going to tell you exactly what I think is going on and I hope I'm right.

Firstly, I think you started D2 with something that means to you that Dunn is town with certainty, probably related to the neighborization last night. I think this is why you fixated on the Dunn paragraph of 4.

I intended that to be a theory, like many I've made in the past, which are often wrong but are sometimes right and worth thinking about. We now know it's probably wrong because Zito is probably telling the truth, and you would have then known its false because you strongly believed Dunn was town, but I thought it was reasonably plausible when I said it and was worth thinking aloud about.

You attacked me several times on that from the perspective of someone who knew it was wrong calling it a bad push and throwing shade. You pointed out the SAD thing and said my theory was a scumread generated through NKA, which is simply not correct. I tried to correct you on the SAD point, and am still fairly certain that my interpretation is correct: SAD had a latent and very real scumleaning on Dunn that scum-Dunn would have reason to be concerned about.

I never "pushed" dunn. I wouldn't even say I've ever scumread him (which means to me "thinks he's very likely to flip scum," but I think means something different to you). You can say I "threw shade" at Dunn, but I don't even get why that's a bad thing. I would not object to the lynch of over half the playerlist atm, Dunn probably not being in that list because of what I'm inferring from you.

I STILL think Zito's story is suspicious. It seems like a really strange design decision to give town passable protection from lynches, and it's incredible that the wording of the ability would be sufficiently vague that it could be interpreted as only stopping NKs while actually protecting against anything. If you know something special that he was at a funeral, that's probably a good explanation for the non-presence, but I didn't think he said anything about that. Sick kid can mean a lot of things, and I can say as a parent of two, it usually means MORE time to check this silly site, not none at all.

Nacho I'm actually terrified that you might be right, but Idk. I just played against Nacho-scum and was able to identify him as nacho-scum easily enough. He didn't act like he has this game, and I think one of us would have died if he is scum.

[Kagami]

You're probably right that I should not have expressed a townlean on nacho.

[Kagami]

Kind of meandered there, but if 31 is you pushing to clear up communication, then I did not get that at all.

What I read there was you calling me a liar when I've done nothing but try to clear things up and express my thoughts.

[Kagami]

I was thinking SK/multiball as the most likely case, but 1 kill so meh.

Shaman mafia had some goofy third party (GreyICE was it, iirc), so I'm kind of thinking that's more likely, which also suggests scum would make sense starting with an orb piece. Not really inclined to hunt off orb pieces anyway.

I don't know why nacho dropped off the face of the earth after it looked like he was getting back into things, and it might have been because I dropped the nacho-town thought, which let him keep coasting.

[Kagami]

Here is an updated tier list

RC, mollie
Staeg, infinity, Kagami, dreamz
Dunn, Spyrex, Nacho
camnhydra
Nahdia, Zito

Man you people making me doubt on dreamz and moving him to tier 2 I hope you're happy.

People I'm okay with lynching today:

Zito
Nahdia
Dunn

I will go on record saying I oppose a dreamz and infinity lynch today (and camnhydra too because I think I can get a better read on them anyway if they keep posting so no rush to lynch them)

Me mollie kagami rc nacho and dunn to save his skin we lynching scum zito.

My understanding of SAD's position is that he has Dunn as null-but-wants-to-lynch in 856/857 which is sounding like it turns into a more scumlean or straight-up scumread by 908. He said he couldn't read Dunn at 870 as the reason for including him in 857, but I don't really buy that, and the 908 comment suggests a pretty non-null read to me. You could be right, but I don't think I was wrong to think that scum-dunn would have wanted to off SAD given his position.

[Kagami]

Depends on how infinity flips

[Kagami]

You knew Dunn would hammer

[Kagami]

Boo, thread not open. Did you guys kill me?