Mafia 78: Meta Breaking Mafia 1 - Game over!

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Mod:

it will end no later than March 1 10 PM EST

Are we going back in time?

Vote: pickemgenius

in order to bandwagon.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Rosso Carne has not voted yet... I'd like to get out of the random stage, thank you very much nicely.

Are you saying that everyone needs to vote before the random stage is over?

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

EBWOP:

Rosso Carne has not voted yet... I'd like to get out of the random stage, thank you very much nicely.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I do not like Surye's progression of actions either, he's by far the scummiest player in the game now.

Unvote, Vote: Surye

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Several people have misrepresented me as the person putting on the L-1 vote without giving warning. I was clearly the 6th vote with 8 to lynch, thus only getting Surye at L-2, which is significantly less dangerous than L-1. This warrants an

FOS: ABR

since he started the misrepresentation.

Also a big

FOS: Coolbot

for his over-eagerness to see a claim.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I'm just a townie.

I still haven't seen any good reason to let up on Surye, so I still want a claim.

Are you kidding Surye will have only 2 votes by the time I do this:

This is really L-1 :arrow:

Unvote, Vote: CoolBot

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

So...has anything actually relevant happened here yet? So far I see a baseless wagon on coolbot leading to a useless vanilla claim and thats about it.

yeah pretty much.

I love how both of you are complaining that nothing relevant has happened while you both also are saying nothing relevant for pretty much the whole game.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I will have limited access from now thru 4/13. I'm pretty sure there is free wireless internet at the hotel I'm staying at, so I'll be sure to post here ASAP.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I currently still like my Coolbot vote. His stubbornness amazes me.

I also find camisade to be the biggest lurking-in-plain-sight player in this game, thus

big FOS: camisade

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I smell scum on this wagon.

I think there would always be scum on wagons, whether it is scum trying to lynch town or bus scumbuddy.

What's Coolbot at vote wise?

What was so hard about looking at the vote count at the top of the page and seeing 1 unvote and 2 votes?

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I'm not familiar with too many players here, but does anyone have a meta that fits?

Personally I ignore player metas, so I don't consider town/scum tells based on if people are behaving the same or differently relative to past games.
To what extent do you consider players' metas to be town/scum tells?

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I am not buying farside's wagon due to the link in her sig.

And with the deadline coming up, I do not see myself moving my vote away from CoolBot unless somebody quickly becomes extremely scummy.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Since the alignment of both Albert and Adel are currently unknown, I consider their war of words to be a null tell. So I still like CoolBot as the best lynch.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

The most recent exchanges gave me town vibes from both ABR and Elias. On the other hand CoolBot is overwhelmingly on top with his defeatist "I'm expendable" comment.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

@Elias:
ABR just seems genuine in his efforts, even though it is somewhat twisted and may very well be wrong. And this is a significant improvement over his play earlier in the day where he had displayed no interest at all.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

He seems genuine in his efforts? What kind of BS is that? If a scum is genuine in his efforts to quicklynch a townie, is that a town tell? If the answer is no (which it better be) then why is being genuine in leading a completely baseless wagon on obvioulsy terrible meta when all of your arguments have been soundly defeated without proper response possibly a town tell either?

From the outside perspective, yes ABR's arguments have been mostly crap, but from ABR's own perspective, the sincerity of his efforts leads me to believe ABRtown is more likely than ABRscum. And his recent claim IMO reaffirmed this, because while most will think RBer is a scum role, the meta breaking nature of this game makes a town RBer more likely.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I will be rereading, especially since the current three dead players were centers of discussion yesterday.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

First I'm taking a look at the CoolBot wagons, which likely have scum.

CoolBot reaches L-1 in VC#8: {Surye, shaft.ed, Albert, Ectomancer, Adel, pickemgenius, Machiavellian-Mafia}
CoolBot is lynched VC#20 {pickemgenius, Machiavellian-Mafia, shaft.ed, Surye, the silent speaker, Kison, farside22, Adel/Gorrad*}
*Adel actually hammered first but misspelled vote. Gorrad successfully hammered.

Common players among both wagons: {MM, PEG, Surye, Shaft.ed, Ecto/Gorrad}

PEG - Generally non-contributor during D1. Full of one-liners. No reasoning whatsoever. Leaning scum.

FOS: PEG

Surye - Defended himself well against early D1 attacks and justified his suspicions towards CoolBot. Leaning town.

Shaft.ed - One of the most protown players thus far. Had valid reasons for CoolBot vote. Leaning town.

Ecto/Gorrad - Ecto was a little bit better than PEG, but still a general non-contributor. Gorrad seems to be an improvement, but currently there are too few posts from Gorrad to make judgement. Neutral.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

MMk. I honeslty don't think that the coolbot wagon is anywhere near the place to look for scum. He did some scummy shit, flat out, and that means people SHOULD lynch him. I'm always an advocate of lynching someone scummy and standing by it.

I think scum would be more likely to be on a scummy player since it's an easy wagon to hop on. I can't see how a town player's lynch wagon consists of all town.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

PEG has not done anything recently to change my mind about his lack of contributions a.k.a. lurking in plain sight, so

vote: PEG

.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I'm buying Xtoxm's claim for now. The role of FBI agent makes sense meta-breaking-wise regardless of whether there is actually an SK. An SK/SK-investigation role pair is rare, and an SK investigation role with no SK would epitomize meta-breaking.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

@Gorrad: I agree that there is a possibility of fakeclaim, but I haven't seen scummy play from Xtoxm to warrant selling his claim.

@Mod:

I am currently voting for PEG

Mod: fixed

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Cnosidering the significant slowdown of this game, I also need a reread to see what else I can find.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

After rereading, I find Rosso's play to be just as bad as PEG's. He always seemed to push for certain players' lynches without backing them up with votes. FOS: Rosso

I also revisited the derailment of the Surye wagon, and I find some validity in the Adel/Surye connection. Adel first derails that wagon by subtly complying with ABR's request of "we should all lower our guns", then immediately switches to me for the misrepresented reason of "putting him at L-1" when my vote was L-2. After that Adel fakes re-voting Surye, as if to paint the picture he is trying to undo the derailment. Then the CoolBot wagon gained strength with Adel hopping onto that as well, and Adel rarely if ever mentioned Surye again.

Thus,

Unvote, Vote: Surye

. I believe that's L-2.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

EBWOP:

FOS: Rosso

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Surye who do you suspicious right now? It seems like you have been defending yourself most of the time, I haven't seen any votes or FOSes out of you today.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I currently buy Surye's claim, because as others have said, his partner can confirm him. With the deadline coming up soon I will reread specifically at Tar and to a lesser extent Ecto/Gorrad since they seem to be the two most likely lynches to happen today. I will reach a decision later today.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Although Tar was basically nonexistent D1, I get much better vibes from him in his recent posts, which made sense and had some valid points. I don't think Tar is the lynch today.

On the other hand, I like a Gorrad lynch much better. His predecessor Ecto was one of those general non-contributors who posted mostly one-liners with no reasoning and was involved in the Surye derailment. And since I'm currently buying Xtoxm's claim, I see Gorrad's strong reactions to Xtoxm as signs of more likely SK than not.

Unvote, Vote: Gorrad

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

MM why do you think he's a likely SK? That's a big stretch based off of a single comment in my eyes.

I think it makes the most sense for an SK to react strongly to that claim to try to discredit the SK investigator. Now taking into account Gorrad's overeager vig claim, I find it more likely that one of Xtoxm and Gorrad is lying, rather than both claiming truth. I buy Tar's claim.

I can go with the plan regarding Gorrad and Xtoxm. I also have no problem with a Rosso lynch, as I have expressed suspicion before and Surye made some valid analysis. I believe this vote will be the 6th vote, or L-1:

Unvote, Vote: Rosso

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Oops in the quote in should "shaft.ed wrote" not "Gorrad wrote.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

GorradSK is in full desperation mode now, so he should be the lynch today. But I agree with shaft.ed that we need to have everyone post before lynching Gorrad. There's 10 alive, so it's 6 to lynch and Gorrad already has 4 votes.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Though I'm not overly excited, I accept the direct-Gorrad-kill plan. I'll need a reread find who else are lynch candidates.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

As indicated by my sig, I will be on vacation until Sunday.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

MM - Defended farside on the same reasons that Adel did. FoS'ed Rosso Carne out of what seems to be thin air, then voted him at deadline. If there is a non-Mafia mafia-aligned role, I'd say he's it.

I see your "thin air" comment as a misrepresentation. During one of my rereads yesterday I found Rosso to be as scummy as PEG since they were both severe non-contributors. Also I remember a couple of other players express suspicions about Rosso before I did.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I currently like PEG, TS, and Elias as scum candidates, in that order, since they have all been pretty much nonexistent in terms of contributing, especially recently. I'll jump on TS wagon and pressure him.

Vote: TS

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I did a reread on my top 3 suspects and I view PEG in a more positive light now. So I like TS lynch + Gorrad killing Elias.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I travelling to China these next couple of days. No access until Wednesday.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Sorry for not posting in a week. The hotel I am staying at did not have its internet working for a while, and when I did get internet I found out the Chinese government blocked mafiascum! Since I'm really dumb with computers, it took me a few more days to figure out I should use proxy sites. So I'll give a serious post in the next 24 hours.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Besides Gorrad, I currently suspect shaft.ed, surye, and TS, in that order, based on process of elimination and role based info.

And I have no problem with mass claiming now.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Claim: insane or paranoid daycop

Initially I was not told of my sanity, but I figured it out through my investigations that I have to be either insane or paranoid.

Day 1: Investigated CoolBot because of his claim-demanding scummy behavior and got mafia/guilty, thus my aggressiveness towards getting him lynched is the breadcrumb.

Day 2: Investigated Tar due to strong suspicion at that time and got mafia/guilty. I recall 1 post in which I said "specifically" look at Tar, which was the breadcrumb. Also after Tar claimed, I said "buy" instead of "currently buy" for the claim, which breadcrumbed that I have very strong belief in the claim due to my investigation and Tar's claimed flavor matching mine.

Day 3: Investigated PEG due to strong suspicion and got mafia/guilty. I recall 1 post in which I said "I see PEG in a more positive light", which was the breadcrumb.

I think my role is more likely to be insane than paranoid because I believe Tar and PEG to be town. Hopefully my investigation for today can result in a not mafia/innocent.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I have sent in my day investigation choice for Surye since he hasn't been investigated yet and like Tar said, there's a chance of a scum mason.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

@shaft.ed: I already investigated PEG yesterday, and I did send it in to Adel.

My result on Surye is again mafia/guilty. Since now I have 4 of the same results, I'm taking the paranoid sanity as equally possible as insane. And paranoid daycop would definitely fit as meta-breaking.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I'm calling BS on this one. How convenient that you break out the guilty in this probable LYLO situation. Your fakeclaim is all making sense now.

First you choose to no-kill Night 2 to fool the town into thinking TSdoc successfully protected you.

Then you still do not kill TSdoc Night 3 since you knew you probably would draw the protection again.

Next when TSdoc indicated she might not protect you anymore Day 4, you killed her Night 4.

And now you go for the win.

Finally, a sane cop + doc combo is the ultimate anti-meta-breaking role pair in mafia.

Vote: Tar

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I need to reread MM reaction to Tar's claim. I would expect it to be rather incredulous.

Actually my reaction was the opposite of incredulous. At that time I had just day-investigated Tar and thought it was highly likely my sanity was insane due to CoolBot flipping town, so I believed Tar's claim. Obviously now I know Tar is fakeclaiming and my sanity is paranoid.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I'm really sorry to say but I'm at this camp right now that is supposed to have internet, but there has been huge internet problems. I will be back on July 27th-28th, so I'll leave it up to Guardian if I need to be replaced.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Wow that was a great tactic by Surye to bus me. Surye was definitely our scum MVP. I apologize that I could not be as involved at the end due to my unexpected internet problems. Thank you for modding Guardian and Adel.