Mafia 78: Meta Breaking Mafia 1 - Game over!

[Adel]

1 = PEG
2 = ABR

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[Adel]

vote:Albert B. Rampage

[Adel]

Albert B. Rampage

For a competing wagon.

who are you trying to kid? That isn't a vote.

[Adel]

oh wow, another San Diego scummer. Howdy! Are you attending college here or in the military?

[Adel]

i don't see how that could be relevant. See Gambler's Fallacy.

[Adel]

Mod: camisade has not posted in this thread yet. Prod?

Rosso Carne has not voted yet... I'd like to get out of the random stage, thank you very much nicely.

[Adel]

Mod: camisade has not posted in this thread yet. Prod?

Rosso Carne has not voted yet... I'd like to get out of the random stage, thank you very much nicely.

nah, nothing really to vote on IMHO.

Ecto has a Depeshe Mode quote in his sig... IRL that is enough for me to put machine oil in his coffee.

[Adel]

I listen to KMFDM, and you can't appreciate KMFDM unless you are familiar with the enemy.

[Adel]

unvote, vote: camisade

that kind of attitude is anti-town

[Adel]

unvote, vote:Surye

because I said so.

[Adel]

we figured out that you are scum. Me and ecto and PEG share a brain, and we always share alignment.

[Adel]

I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

[Adel]

Mama, I don't know why you have to make everything so difficult. I look at having a baby as the opportunity of a lifetime. Sure there may be risk involved, but that's true for anybody. But you get through it and life goes on. And when it's all said and done there will be a little piece of immortality with Jackson's good looks and my sense of style, I hope. Please, please I need your support. I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special.

[Adel]

i don't see how that could be relevant. See Gambler's Fallacy.

I know how to flip a penny a hundred times Adel.

What I'm getting at is whether Elias took an opportunity with ABR's comments about Elias crawling out of the woodwork. Its a perfectly acceptable response on the face of it, and may be completely innocent, but I cant help at wonder at the perception generated by it.
He says he was NK'd N1 3 games in a row. Usually (though not always), if you are NK'd it is going to be by scum. It meant that in 3 games, scum found him to be the biggest threat for one reason or another. Extrapolate on that and it means that Elias is probably a good player to keep around for scum hunting.
So following your Gambler's Fallacy, yes, he has proven to be town and apparently threatening to scum for 3 recent games, but that doesn't mean that he is town again in this game. I dont believe I've ever played with Elias, so I wonder (again) whether he is as subtle a player to casually influence town's desire to keep him around.

Why do you think you got NK'd those 3 games Elias, with 20/20 hindsight? Were your speculations close to the mark and they were forced to kill you, or was it because the general perception of you was that you were town? Or was it sheer dumb luck?

he is 10-1 as scum right? So if he hasn't been NK'd by day 4 it may be a good idea to lynch him.

[Adel]

Only if he really looks like town. He's 5-5 as town, so if he's looking mediocre

we

can leave him alone.

Who do you mean by we?

you are included in that set, btw.

[Adel]

So you want to lynch him already?

We have to give him time to prove himself either excellent or mediocre don't we? My vote is on Surye.

OMGUS much?

I don't think "OMGUS" means what you think it does... otherwise jumping at the chance to call OMGUS is a scumtell. my vote is on you as well.

[Adel]

I call him out, and he responds by just saying he'll vote for me, I thought that was OMGUS. Perhaps I misunderstand, but I'm not sure why else he would say he'd vote me without saying anything else as to why.

actual sequence of events:
1. you voted for me
2. i voted for you
3. ecto voted for you
...
you call OMGUS on Ecto.

does not compute,
advise quicklynch of Surye under LAL

[Adel]

you didn't call OMGUS on me.

he voted you

BEFORE

you placed a FOS on him.

I normally harass a player I am unfamiliar with in the beginning of a game to get a read, and the read I'm getting off of you is scummy as hell. I expect you see you lynched within a few pages.

[Adel]

he voted you

BEFORE

you placed a FOS on him.

Hmm, so you're right, I forgot the vote order since up till now it was mostly non-sense voting, and when he said his vote was on me, for some reason I was thinking he was

threatening

a vote on me.

I don't see how it's scummy as hell though. If his first vote was from the random voting stage, and after I FoS him, he solidifies it into a real vote, I still stand by my OMGUS. If it's not, then that means he actually meant something by his first vote on my, and that sets you and Ecto as having an agenda.

Either way, Ecto is implicated, so I think I'm on the right track,

and the way you are responding makes me really suspicious of you.

now

that

is OMGUS.

I do have an agenda: lynching you today. You are my target, and as many of the other players in this game know, I usually get my way on day 1. Any last words?

[Adel]

I told you you were part of the seven :0

[Adel]

Because Adel seemed serious about it, and everyone who has posted seems to agree. But looking at it again, that's not that many, I guess I started feeling a snowball growing behind me for no reason. Guess I'm getting ahead of myself. But if this is just their play style, then I am not sure what I have for this game yet.

*yawn* typical paranoid scum

[Adel]

come on y'all, this by itself:

And @Adel, how is you defending ecto's OMGUS (you've cleared it up, that's what it was) not suspicious?

should be worth three or four votes!

[Adel]

Wrong about what?

[Adel]

Unvote, vote Machiavellian-Mafia

putting players at -1 with no warning or explanation ? You sir, need to be lynched.

since when are you against quicklynches?

fos: ABR

Surye's most likely scumbuddy!

[Adel]

it isn't the action, it is the coverup that revealed you to be scum.

I hope you have better luck in your next game.

[Adel]

I have a meta on ABR, he is acting scummy.

[Adel]

Quote="Surye"]I didn't even vote anyone once the game got more serious. [/quote]

How is that even close to anti-town?

Unvote, Vote:Adel

There, we're out of the random voting stage.

trying to revise history


...

also

I have a tendency to over post my foot into my mouth, and that's what happened here, I don't know what else to say, other then show me where it's scummy and not just me being an idiot, and I'll do my best to address that.

attempt to use Idiot defense to absovle yourself from responsibility.

[Adel]

with 15 alive I would expect that 8 would be needed to lynch, and yet the line "With 15 alive, 8 votes will lynch" line is mysteriously absent from Guardian's votecount.

This is not typical for Guardian as mod.


~~~

fos: shaft.ed

for trying to stir up WIFOM with his last post.

~~~

unvote, vote:ABR

because he asked me to nicely.

[Adel]

ok,

unvote, vote:Machiavellian-Mafia

putting him at -1 (probably) was a bad thing to do without the required warning.

[Adel]

Surye, just when I was starting to think that there was a chance you were not scum, you make three posts in a row, each once worse then the last.

unvote, vote:Surye[/b

[Adel]

actually I love your level of participation in this game, unfortunetly for you it leads me to conclude that you are scum.

[Adel]

btw, it is the content of your posts, not the volume.

[Adel]

And yet you still haven't pointed out anything wrong with the statements in my triple post...

and I don't have to. learn to deal with it.

[Adel]

hey ecto, can we just stick to one wagon for a little while this time. jumping aound like this is making me seasick.

unvote, vote:coolbot

[Adel]

hey ecto, can we just stick to one wagon for a little while this time. jumping aound like this is making me seasick.

unvote, vote:coolbot

FoS Adel

We're going to lynch her Day 3 or 4. She's useful early.

and almost useless in endgame, but I am usually NK'd before getting lynched or endgamed.

[Adel]

Adel why are you pushing bandwagons further than in House?

Am I? I don't see any bodys hanging around here. If anything, I think I'm less agressive here than I was in that game.

[Adel]

ecto was right, rosso is trying to coast through this day without doing work. name calling is much easier.

[Adel]

I want you to claim. I haven't been unclear about this. You defending your early behavior as just generating discussion is what warranted the wagon, but now I want a claim.

damn dude, you are like a bulldog on this. he is like -4321 to lynch and you are still demanding a claim.

*nothing to see here*

[Adel]

Happy scumday albert!

What about Adel ? What do you think about Adel ?

I suspect he knows that I would skin him alive just so I could watch the expression on his face when he see me wearing his face.

[Adel]

people in glass houses, something something, shouldn't throw axes at people stirring the pot, or else a kettle will call you back.

[Adel]

unvote, vote:Adel

[Adel]

unvote, vote: Ectomancer

for breaking the pattern.

[Adel]

reading all of shaft.ed's posts in isolation I note two things...
1. he recognizes my playsstyle and characterizes it as being my SOP
2. Beyond typing my name a lot, he votes for me and then says he needs to figure out why he thinks I am scum...

conclusion: shaft.ed likes me getting attention

[Adel]

but you have time to made multipule posts in the social forums?


interesting...

[Adel]

@mod: how many votes does it take to lynch?

[Adel]

@mod: a round of prods please.

[Adel]

I count 5, ecto unvoted, and shaft.ed and farside voted for him since the last votecount.

[Adel]

I'm not familiar with too many players here, but does anyone have a meta that fits?

Personally I ignore player metas, so I don't consider town/scum tells based on if people are behaving the same or differently relative to past games.
To what extent do you consider players' metas to be town/scum tells?

I see two useful types of meta's:

1) Out and out tell. This is a behavior that someone always does differently as scum/town that they are unaware of. I've caught these behavoirs on occassion and will use them to weigh end game decisions or who to pressure if I notice them. These can be noticed from simple re-reads of a players history.

2) Playstyle. If I notice someone has a particular playstyle after playing with them as town/scum, if they go against this I will decide to pressure such players. Not nearly as useful as tells, and are more difficult to absorb from a dettached re-read. I only have enough game experience with Adel to really use this approach. But her meta seems to be that she constantly shifts her meta, so I don't know if it will be too useful.

you noticed! *huggle*

[Adel]

In a game filled with teenagers, I suppose a wagon on the new mother if almost inevitable. I find it distastful. Plus, Ectomancer & Surye are one it.

Congrats, btw, farside.

[Adel]

We're not lynching Surye or Rosso. Vote for Adel.

dude, after a six month break you are trying to lynch me again out of habit? do you really want me to bring up all of the previous games? get a new shtick, seriously.

[Adel]

[Unvote, vote Ectomancer
Only scum would want to keep playing!

Your added comment was just a momentum killer type statement, and with a deadline looming in the not so distant future, its a scum style comment to me.

This is the best case in the entire game, therefore Adel is the best lynch.

[Adel]

Unvote, vote Ectomancer

Only scum would want to keep playing!

Your added comment was just a momentum killer type statement, and with a deadline looming in the not so distant future, its a scum style comment to me.

This is the best case in the entire game, therefore Adel is the best lynch.

[Adel]

And you are trying to distract attention from and undermine the current wagons by pushing my wagon... but only after making game stalling comments. Hello pot, I'm a kettle, and I'm calling you "black".

Who are you trying to protect: Coolbot, farside22, or Ecto?

[Adel]

]This is the best case in the entire game, therefore Adel is the best lynch.

Actually I was referring to farside's comments, but I suppose it could just be the epidural talking...

I stubbornly stay my vote on Adel-scum.

so if the "best case in the entire game" is against farside, why isn't your vote on farside?

[Adel]

It may apply more accurately to you than to me. Why should it count as a scumtell against me but not against you?

[Adel]

This game should be abandoned.

[Adel]

unvote, vote: Albert B. Rampage

he even did us the courtesy of digging his own grave

[Adel]

are you refering to the ongoing games, or recently completed games?

[Adel]

You need a new shtick. You almost ruined mafia for me last year by going out of your way to get me lynched in each game we were in together (and replacing into games I was in to lynch me, and I'm not going to take it laying down anymore.

this post covers the last four games I played with ABR

If you had joined the game and been scum with them, killing them would have been against your WC. My understanding is you joined several games just to kill Adel, though... was she scum in all of them?

only one out of four.

after he lost to me in a game, the next three games I joined he joined as well. We were both town in all three.

The fasted he got me lynched was in Assassins in the Palace but at least I was just vanilla there and we both won.
He also got me lynched in Mini 471 where I was a doctor and made the mistake of thinking that I could ride out the b.s. day 1 wagon he built for me without claiming. We both lost.

I was also a doctor in Newbie #415 - Super Go-Getter Mafia where is wagon on me day 1 lead to me claiming doctor, but this time I made the mistake of unclaiming to avoid the nk, only to get lynched day 2. We both lost.

Due to the profanity I stopped posting in the post-game, but pickemgenuis (who was not in the game) started exchanging words with ABR. It got a little heated.

then

, almost immediately afterwards, ABR replaced into mini-458 where PEG and I were scum, and ABR posted that he only replaced into that game to get PEG and I lynched.

I was going to quit playing once all of my games were done, but ABR got his victory so I figured that the matter was settled.

I probably wouldn't go through the trouble of typing all of this out, but I just watched the new Frontline documentary on the lead up to the Iraq war and historical revisionism pisses me off.

Lies do not age well. His defense of his actions has changed with time, and I think that contradiction is most damning.

You have no case against me, and once your logic was exposed as being poorly contrived and oppertunistic, you appeal to the freakish accuracy of your ongoing games which could just as easily be due to random chance or you bussing a scumbuddy. The sample size is too smal for any real conclusion to be drawn.

... and you try to use that fact that i'm defending myself as a tell against me? I call bullshit. I'm not going to let another fantasy case of your's get me lynched, undermine the town's chances of winning, just for you to get chuckles.

Do I really think you are scum? Not really, but I do think that you are a bastard who likes to get me lynched for your own chuckles. I'll be the bigger person and

unvote

but it was really tempting to get you lynched just to spite you.

[Adel]

The shadow of what little doubt I have is quickly receding

and what, exactly, is causing that doubt to receed?

[Adel]

I've read ABR being very bull-headed so there's an off chance they're two townies having at it.

that was my read. I don't think he would have such a hard-on for me if he was scum. Check out theose games where he has lynched me early in the game as part of his revenge fantasy orr picking-on-the-girl impulse or whatever is motivating it.. he is always like, "oops, I guess she really isn't scum" he knows that he won't be held accountable. after getting some sleep, I think I can see him getting me lynched day one and knowing that when I'm exposed as town he won't be held accountable.

He clearly tried to stall the game out, and then accused me of doing the same thing he is guilty of. Worst case, he is town acting very anti-town and distracting everyone. I now think there is a better chance of him being scum than anyone else in the game. Notice how he hasn't linked to mini-458, the one game where he actually got me lynched as scum. I didn't resist that lynch very hard in that game because I didn't want my scum-budies to get linked to me by defending me.

meh, I shouldn't have unvoted last night, but I was worried about this becoming one of those idiotic flare-ups where two townies just get each other lynched. I have been down a similar road with ABR before.

I love how he claims that resisting a wagon of his creation and getting pissed at him for being a bull-headed ass are

universal

scumtells.

vote: Albert B. Rampage

I don't understand Coolbot's push for a Surye claim so long after Surye's wagon evaporated. It seems to be that ABR is pushing a false choice awfully hard.

[Adel]

Status:

Day 1

Deadline:

May 1, 10PM EST

Not much time left before deadline guys

. A bandwagon on Adel is what we need now."

[Adel]

could someone with an ounce of reason please do a post-by-post comaprison of me and ABR? please? I know I can't win a typing contest against him, and it disturbs me that people like farside are left with the impression that I'm not destroying every case he brings against me. I'm also disturbed that players like Machiavellian-Mafia are concluding that there is no difference between us.

What this town needs is a objective analysis of the evidence and cases produced so far.

The sooner the better, since ABR is sure to bury the evidence I've brought up by posting even more bullying and bombastic posts that only add noise and not information.

[Adel]

Why should we trust the meta of a player who has led to her repetitive lynch as town, and led to games lost multiple times?

Because its been an entire year since.

another lie. one year = six months in ABR world?

how many games have we played in together since the last one? zero.

[Adel]

I'm personally not getting a good read on either Adel or ABR. Elias matches what little I've seen of him as town. And I still like my Coolbot vote.

after modding me in House, do you think that he could honestly consider me unvoting him for a mater of hours to be both "wishy washy" and a scumtell?

[Adel]

I strongly prefer an ABR lynch to Coolbot's.

[Adel]

When should he claim?

lynch -1. he knows this.

I bet he breadcrumbed earlier, and is overeager to get his cunning and crafted fake-claim out in the open. He wants to draw the doc protection tonight and get me lynched today. Claiming early helps both of those ambitions.

I think his hubris will be his downfall.

[Adel]

has anyone revisited the coolbot + ABR connection lately? I don't have time to right now, but it occurred to be that ABR may be coaching Coolbot, anf trying to keep Coolbot from getting lynched without attracting too much attention to his connection to Coolbot. Does the evidence support this hunch?

[Adel]

has anyone revisited the coolbot + ABR connection lately? I don't have time to right now, but it occurred to be that ABR may be coaching Coolbot, anf trying to keep Coolbot from getting lynched without attracting too much attention to his connection to Coolbot. Does the evidence support this hunch?

Wasn't Albert just stating that he was for a Coolbot or Adel lynch 2 pages ago. Not that Scum don't out each other, but this early? Meh.

he says that he is for a coolbot lynch, but he doesn't really do much to push it or encourage it... and he can't seem to decide if he really wants to be on the wagon or not.

[Adel]

Good point. In endgame (or before) his claim can indeed be tested.

unvote

[Adel]

Although a RB is more scum in games that I've played then town. With a deadline and people piling votes I think him claiming is reasonable. However RB is a hard thing for me to swallow. I have seen town and scum RB, but most time they are scum.

Coolbot, pay attention

reminds me of something Mr. Flay said in a game about six months ago

Maybe I'm getting old, but "Mafia Roleblocker" is a newer type of role, and not as common as some players here would like you to believe. It's true that Mafia Roleblocker is a much more purely-beneficial role for its side to have than Pro-Town Roleblocker, because the pro-town type has to deal with not blocking cops, docs, etc. Still, it's testable.

link for full text and context

[Adel]

im happy with either wagon still. please get them going.

your entire "pushing wagons without getting onboard" shtick is getting old.

[Adel]

I agree that we can make no assumption as to if a roleblocker in this game is more likely to be mafia or town. It is worth noting, however, that a roleblocker is far more valuable a role for scum than for town.

[Adel]

Gorrad's level of confidence makes this feel like a bus.

I agree with this service.

[Adel]

i'll go ahead and hammer. it does seem like he has been buddying up to me for a while, and if he is getting bussed than at least we still get a dead scum.

vte: Coolbot

[Adel]

I support the bussing of scum on day 1. In the end, it is a service.

[Adel]

so am i more scummy or less scummy in your eyes for having hammered coolbot?

[Adel]

[11] If you have a night choice to make, it is due by the posted deadline. I will not wait for you. If you do not submit a choice to me, I’ll make it for you and you won’t like it.

To help prevent the perception of bias while I am the mod, this rule now states:

[11] If you have a night choice to make, it is due by the posted deadline. I will not wait for you. If you do not submit a choice to me, sorry, you take no action for that night.

I'll change the wording in the first post as soon as the admins activate my my moderator permissives.

[Adel]

/confirm as mod. btw, I still can't edit or delete posts so players will have to behave themselves.

[Adel]

Vote Count #42

Not Voting[7]: Gorrad, Machiavellian-Mafia, pickemgenius, shaft.ed, Surye, Tarhalindur, Toaster Strudel

~~~


Deadline for Day 4 is 8 PM Monday, July 30th.

[Adel]

Vote Count #43

Not Voting[7]: Gorrad, Machiavellian-Mafia, pickemgenius, shaft.ed, Surye, Tarhalindur, Toaster Strudel

[Adel]

can we get a PEG prod, he's back to active on site.

I almost missed this post. If someone wants my attention

bold letter

really help.

PEG has been prodded.

[Adel]

Vote Count #44

Gorrad[1]: Surye

Not Voting[6]: Gorrad, Machiavellian-Mafia, pickemgenius, shaft.ed, Tarhalindur, Toaster Strudel

[Adel]

I've sent a PM to the powers-that-be requesting mod rights for this game, again. I also sent a PM to guardian in case he somehow has access. I will not post a death scene until I can also lock the thread.

Until then, enjoy your twilight!

[Adel]

I may have access troubles this weekend. I'll PM Adel and tell her to deal with the lynch scene should there be one while I am away.

Got it.

[Adel]

Totally Unnecessary Vote Count #47

Skruffs[1] (Surye)
Surye[1] (Skruffs)

Not Voting[2] (shaft.ed)

~~~

Deadline for Day 6 has not yet been set by Guardian.

[Adel]

Deadline will hit this time in 4 days.

I missed this post. My role in this game is strictly limited to posting vote-counts and death scenes.

Feel free to PM Guardian. If the deadline passes before he returns, I will let him deal with it. If he got attacked by rabid ducks and fails to return, I'll turn the game over to someone who doesn't have a conflict of interest.

[Adel]

This was the most uncordinated scum team I have ever been a part of.
Our quicktopic thread reads like a comedy of errors. As it worked out, my play certainly didn't help our team.

mad kudos to Surye for pulling out the win.


I don't see how Skruffs could've played any better than he did. I think this game illustrated how lurking by townies really hurts the towns chances of winning. More active posting by members of the town really would've changed the course of the game.

[Adel]

I don't think anyone really read or understood the purpose of this game, and that saddens me

. I tried to say clearly it was intended to be a game with standard roles but in awkward combinations. It was meant to be something of a fake out, in that there

were

no two-of a kind roles, but there could have been. However, there was the fbi agent and vigilante, the town roleblocker with no scum power roles, etc.

Ideally, when should a massclaim have gone down?

I thought the most meta-breaking part of the game was the title.

I think your objective with the setup may have been better filled if the game had been semi-open, with a list of all possible roles on the first page.