Turn of Camn ~FIN~

[northsidegal]

confirm, i'm a miller

[northsidegal]

NOTE:
I talked to alisae and, unbeknownst to me, at least before we talked, alisae ASSIGNED the town people’s roles. For example, I’m a role that fits me really well. This was really easy to miss in the rules, so realize that roles are NOT random, and that we can townfirm people (at least some) by how well their role fits their personality

is this serious

how does miller fit NSG's personality at all

i refuse to believe pine drafted her and then told her to claim miller lol

Alisae probably just gave it to me because it's something i wouldn't fakeclaim (despite me thinking about fakeclaiming miller just the day before i got the role pm) and because i could be obviously town anyways?

[northsidegal]

For the final post:

Many of you are aware of elli’s “tell machine”

I was petrified that I would just be caught as instantly scum because it works that well, so pre game I asked alisae and she said she couldent ban elli from using it

Therefore, because I want to win and am not in favor of sacrificing my win condition for the spirit of the game, I say we force elli to use his tell machine to clear me and others as town or claim scum

God I love that mafiascum allows you to talk about mod communication

i don't entirely understand what you're getting at here. i mean, even if you consider ellibereth's "machine" to be able to just say bleep bloop mulch is town, did you think that ellibereth wouldn't be using it without you saying this?

like, why did you feel the need to say this?

[northsidegal]

I'm a miller btw if anyone missed that

[northsidegal]

I'm a miller btw if anyone missed that

Didn’t miss out, just don’t care

??????

[northsidegal]

people claiming scum,

yawn

[northsidegal]

i agree that mathdino wanting to lynch ellibereth day one is terrible

[northsidegal]

people claiming scum,

yawn

this post + miller claim => lynch this player before lylo always.

Thanks in advance.

If you interpreted that as me cheekily saying "oh this post is a scumclaim", you're looking at it wrong. It's really boring seeing people like mastina or firebringer say "lol yeah guys i'm scum!!!!", and i think chara did it too. I normally dislike policy lynches but it makes me want to policy lynch them to get peopl eto stop doing it.

[northsidegal]

don't talk to me.

[northsidegal]

VOTE: bbmolla

[northsidegal]

Can you focks vote mastina please

Why did you make this post?

[northsidegal]

just lol.

[northsidegal]

To elaborate: i don't see any particular reason that bbmolla is calling for more votes on mastina right now. For one, centipede has already made it clear multiple times that they don't want a lynch happening very fast in day one. Even if people are scumreading mastina, accelerating that lynch doesn't really accomplish much. Even more, outside of mastina doing the whole "claiming scum" bit, i really don't see why he would have a scumread of that strength on mastina such that he would make that post. I've made that post before as scum when i was pushing fake reads, and it reminded me of that situation. I'd like to hear his own rationale for why he said that, hence my asking.

[northsidegal]

Can you focks vote mastina please

Why did you make this post?

Too many people are completely ignoring mastina's postings

Fuck lynching anyone else, mastina is trying some stupid gambit which is almost certainly scum, let's lynch her and deal with other scum later

what makes it "almost certainly scum" to you?

[northsidegal]

Like, that doesn't seem real. If you're speaking without hyperbole i just don't think it's reasonable to have a scumread of that strength on mastina right now, and you don't strike me as the type of player who makes 100% or near 100% confidence scumreads like that this early with this little to go off of.

[northsidegal]

Like, that doesn't seem real. If you're speaking without hyperbole i just don't think it's reasonable to have a scumread of that strength on mastina right now, and you don't strike me as the type of player who makes 100% or near 100% confidence scumreads like that this early with this little to go off of.

you have meta on bbmolla?

i don't even have meta on bbmolla and i literally wrote his title lol

no, just speaking from "soulreading" as the MUers say.

[northsidegal]

What is your read on mastina nsd?

i have no clue whether the whole claiming scum thing is more likely to come from scum than town. i also think that town loses a lot by losing townie doing outrageous things over silently scummy people so i suppose i'm cognitively biased to treat it with less weight than other people seem to be treating it.

hey NSG what do you think of always lynching radiantcowbells D1 then

i disagree with it?

[northsidegal]

hey math, did you ever read open 701?

[northsidegal]

hey math, did you ever read open 701?

no, reading larges is dangerous for my health

i read your ISO, like two others, and the entire mafia PT, but that was it

Spoiler:

I'm not sure what "vegging" means, but my opinion on pisskop is very simple: this guy is a troll. Everything he says is NAI and nothing he says is worth reading. His chance of being scum is 3/14. I am no longer going to bother reading anything he says nor react to any of it.

For the purpose of preserving my own sanity, I just wrote a quick script to hide his posts, so I

literally

won't be reading him anymore.

aster's response to pisskop seems like an overreaction to me. i can understand getting annoyed but writing a script to ignore an entire player's posts is a bit much – i have to wonder if he's just saying that, and hasn't actually done anything.

Here's the script if anyone is wondering:

Code: Select all

// ==UserScript==
// @name          Mafiascum: ignore PK
// @namespace     https://www.mafiascum.net/
// @description   Saves your sanity.
// @include       https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?*
// @version       1.0
// ==/UserScript==

try {
	let thread = document.getElementById("page-body");
	let posts = thread.getElementsByClassName("post");
	for(var i=0;i<posts.length;i++) {
		let post = posts[i];
		let profile = post.getElementsByClassName("postprofile")[0];
		let usernameLink = profile.getElementsByTagName("a")[0];
		let username = usernameLink.text;
		if(username == "pisskop") {
			let inner = post.getElementsByClassName("inner")[0];
			inner.innerText = "This post isn't worth reading.";
		}
	}
} catch(e) {
	// Do nothing.
}

It's an userscipt meant to be used with Firefox/Greasemonkey, but I hear Chrome has built-in support for them (didn't test.) It has some rough edges (doesn't hide quotes, doesn't work on the post preview page), but I couldn't be bothered putting more effort in it if I'm in all likelihood the only one using it. It does work for the bulk of the hiding, and ignoring those edges takes less effort than polishing the script.

[northsidegal]

wait does that script actually work even though scum wrote it

do you wanna make a pact NSG to create an expanding ignore-pinebloc

i have no clue if it actually works, the thought just popped up to me. i think aster might've actually posted a screenshot of it working so i'm inclined to say it does.

yeah, i think it's far better to literally mechanically ignore everything pine says than trying to read into the wifom.

[northsidegal]

Code: Select all

// ==UserScript==
// @name          Mafiascum: ignore Pine
// @namespace     https://www.mafiascum.net/
// @description   Ignore confscum
// @include       https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?*
// @version       1.0
// ==/UserScript==

try {
   let thread = document.getElementById("page-body");
   let posts = thread.getElementsByClassName("post");
   for(var i=0;i<posts.length;i++) {
      let post = posts[i];
      let profile = post.getElementsByClassName("postprofile")[0];
      let usernameLink = profile.getElementsByTagName("a")[0];
      let username = usernameLink.text;
      if(username == "Pine") {
         let inner = post.getElementsByClassName("inner")[0];
         inner.innerText = "Ignore confirmed scum, :good:";
      }
   }
} catch(e) {
   // Do nothing.
}

[northsidegal]

yeah, it works, will have to turn it off when not playing this game though

[northsidegal]

i actually don't know how that works lol

are you on chrome NSG?

will teach myself JS if it means i can make sure that script is restricted to only this thread so everyone can use it

you have to install the "tampermonkey" extension, yes using chrome.

i actually fixed needing to switch it off when not looking at this thread though i think:

Code: Select all

// ==UserScript==
// @name          Mafiascum: ignore Pine
// @namespace     https://www.mafiascum.net/
// @description   Ignore confscum
// @include       https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75794*
// @version       1.1
// ==/UserScript==

try {
   let thread = document.getElementById("page-body");
   let posts = thread.getElementsByClassName("post");
   for(var i=0;i<posts.length;i++) {
      let post = posts[i];
      let profile = post.getElementsByClassName("postprofile")[0];
      let usernameLink = profile.getElementsByTagName("a")[0];
      let username = usernameLink.text;
      if(username == "Pine") {
         let inner = post.getElementsByClassName("inner")[0];
         inner.innerText = "Ignore confirmed scum, :good:";
      }
   }
} catch(e) {
   // Do nothing.
}

[northsidegal]

oh true, i guess it's a trade off between having to turn it off elsewhere and that

[northsidegal]

huh there's still a flaw in the code, other people seem to still be responding to pine

[northsidegal]

i don't actually know how to code things, i just edited a few lines from aster's code

[northsidegal]

mastina, why exactly does it benefit town for you to get lynched assuming you're town?

[northsidegal]

This code literally does nothing except to ignore the posts of a certain player. What's the point of this?

what? pine is literally

confirmed scum

. like, we know that he's intentionally going to be trying to mislead town and wifom us. paying attention to what he has to say is pretty much going to be a waste of time – i don't really think any claim that we can "see through the wifom" or anything is actually substantial. so, everyone should be ignoring what he says. like, seriously. i see people responding to him or to things that he says – just stop. if you're town there's no purpose to it, i think it really only benefits scum trying to create non-associatives.

[northsidegal]

This code literally does nothing except to ignore the posts of a certain player. What's the point of this?

To be mean and cruel.

Mod: Alisae, can you ban use of that sort of script? It breaks the spirit of the game.

I'll discipline NSG in the scumchat.

ugh, saw this from firebringer's quote. i know i said i don't like responding to pine, but i feel like this has slight out of game / "meta"-game relevance. in my view using the script only breaks the spirit of the game insofar as closing my eyes every time i saw a pine post would. they're functionally identical and accomplish the same thing, it's just automated using the script.

[northsidegal]

Read through the entire thread, and, ignoring any modmetagaming based reads, that is, I'm not taking into account who Alisae/Pine may or may not have picked, here are my scumreads:

Mathdino, Ginggie, Centipede Syndrome

with Firebringer as a potential fourth.

is this kiana talking here?

[northsidegal]

Spoiler: 541

Never Loses: Kuuhaku (Kiana Kaslana + Shiro)

Townreading: Lady Lambdadelta, MariaR, Mulch, Parama
Probably won't get picked by Pine so odds are town: xRECKONERx, Aristophanes, BBmolla
Scumreading: Ginngie,

Mathdino, Firebringer

, Centipede Syndrome (Ellibereth + Chara)

Yet to sort:
- shos
- DrippingGoofball
- mastina
- Implosion
- Northsidegal

~Sora

mastina

------------ 4 ( BBmolla(15),

Mathdino(43), Firebringer(52),

Lady Lambdadelta(8) )

L- 5

two of the four people voting are scum so irdc to look into individual votes. if you think mastina is scum it's your job to convince me, not to tell me to look into it myself. that being said, i again see no value in elaborating on townreads d1 because it not only tells scum who to kill but also why

That seems to fit somehow.

again, is this kiana? the first post you quote here is from sora, so if it's kiana making the second post can i assume that you two are in the same place when it comes to reads?

[northsidegal]

Shiro hasn’t posted yet

who's "sora" then?

[northsidegal]

i really didn't like how kiana spent a lot of the time initially after coming into the thread just talking about the draft and how she wasn't drafted or scum or how she was drafted for town or whatever, felt kind of transparently LAMIST.

541 struck me as a towny post, but knowing that it's kiana posting and not sora i'd have to question if it's real that both of them are in the exact same spot with regards to those reads, and i really hate 583. i mean, even on just a surface level it's masonhunting, but for kiana specifically i feel like as scum she would be the type to more actively push scum wincondition as opposed to trying to play exactly her towngame so i'd say it's more of a scumtell than it would be for any other randomly given person.

[northsidegal]

Shiro will be signing as Shiro. We don't want to confuse people.

[northsidegal]

thanks, firebringer.

[northsidegal]

{northsidegal}
{mulch, Aristophanes}
{Parama}
{Ginngie, shos, DrippingGoofball , xRECKONERx, Mathdino, mastina, Lady Lambdadelta, MariaR, Centipede Syndrome, Implosion}
{Firebringer}
{kuuhaku}
{bbmolla}

[northsidegal]

thanks, firebringer.

oh this was sarcastic at first but then i realized that i misread.

anyways, sure. what would you like to talk about?

Ginngie, shos, DrippingGoofball , xRECKONERx, Mathdino, mastina, Lady Lambdadelta, MariaR, Centipede Syndrome, Implosion}

These all null?

yeah.

What the hell is this "LAMIST" thing that you guys keep talking about these days? It doesn't sound to me like being lame or whatever.

"look at me, i'm so town"

Commonly Used Abbreviations

[northsidegal]

Kind of cringe terminology if you ask me.
What’s the difference between try hard Town and scum trying hard to be Town?
Seems hard to distinguish.

i think it's not at all how you described it. "lamist" is more for someone like,

bragging

specifically or just talking a lot specifically about how towny they are. it doesn't describe "try hard town" at all, it describes someone more focused on

looking

town than actually being town, if that makes sense.

I don't know about you but I don't close my eyes at the attractions when I go into a haunted house. But maybe you do. Pine is the same, he's just a backup mod adding flavour to the game. That's how I deal with it.

they're two entirely different situations. when you go to a haunted house, you are not playing a game against someone. i think a more apt comparison would be someone shouting loudly at you while you try to solve a crossword or sudoku puzzle, and then putting on earplugs. it's the same thing, i feel. pine is someone actively trying to inhibit town's goals, so we should be ignoring him.

[northsidegal]

I agree. That terminology is 100% cringe. I'm dismayed that NSG has adopted the use of such a cringey term. So far, I've only seen newbs and weaker players do so.

oh this was sarcastic at first but then i realized that i misread.

Ohhh I thought we weren’t on bad terms anymore.

i felt that 73 was unnecessarily rude and completely uncalled for so it put me in a bad frame of mind with regards to you.

So, now that Firebringer has helpfully corrected your mistaken identity of who's posting in my slot (Thanks, Firebringer! But, NAI.), does that change your analysis from #600 onwards?

it removes my concern about faked reads being "agreed upon" by both members of the hydra but other than that, not much.

[northsidegal]

For the record, Shiro is townreading Firebringer, and, my scumread on Firebringer is the weakest of my 4 picks. However, I took Firebringer's soft defenses of Ginggie as well as his reactions towards me as an admission of guilt.

could you explain your scumread on centipede and math, and your townread on bbmolla?

i also want to hear the reasoning on your ginngie read but apparently you're not doing that. any reason why?

they're two entirely different situations. when you go to a haunted house, you are not playing a game against someone. i think a more apt comparison would be someone shouting loudly at you while you try to solve a crossword or sudoku puzzle, and then putting on earplugs. it's the same thing, i feel. pine is someone actively trying to inhibit town's goals, so we should be ignoring him.

Well, I guess we can agree to disagree. I'll have to say that my perspective is a little biased, though, since I have been naturally trained to ignore my scumreads in the first place, so, it isn't too difficult for me to ignore Pine's scumtalk.

If you need tools to help you do so, then, so be it

. I'm just sharing what methods I use to deal with certain issues, in the hopes that it may help others.

~Sora

[northsidegal]

i wasn't talking to you at all when i said that or trying to make a conversation around it, i was literally restating my claim in case anyone missed it, as i said fairly unambiguously in the post. i'm not sure why you assumed otherwise.

[northsidegal]

2) Alisae randomize the roles for Town as far as I know. Otherwise that needs to be disclosed or bastard

>

ROLES

AND ALIGNMENT ARE NOT RANDOM.

[northsidegal]

BBmolla seems to be a weak player that would be unlikely to be picked by Pine in a draft, for similar reasons to Aristophanes. I could be wrong.

and do you get this sense from this game only or for meta from elsewhere?

[northsidegal]

BBmolla seems to be a weak player that would be unlikely to be picked by Pine in a draft, for similar reasons to Aristophanes. I could be wrong.

and do you get this sense from this game only or for meta from elsewhere?

From this game.

doesn't it seem rather circular to you to look at bbmolla's play this game, after he's received his alignment, and use that to make a judgment about what his play would be like as scum? either circular or already assuming bbmolla is town, no?

like, you look at bbmolla's play this game and say "oh, this guy is playing a weak game, so he probably wasn't chosen for scum", when the converse of bbmolla being scum being the reason for him playing a weak game is also valid?

[northsidegal]

Five more minutes before I leave. Ask me any more significant questions before I do so.

Gone, bye. Shiro will be taking over for now.

Be back later.

~Sora

that wasn't 5 minutes

[northsidegal]

wait a minute

scum miller lmao

sorry, this isn't a normal game

[northsidegal]

points to whoever gets that

[northsidegal]

don't think you're actually solving / sorting

[northsidegal]

points to whoever gets that

it's from a normal game where they lynched the rolecop-confirmed "mafia miller"

Spoiler:

I believe mafia miller is a possibility, it's more the stuff I've analyzed from Mulch that's really making me think it's you. As for mulch hard townreading you well if you were his buddy he also has reason to do so, as I noted Mulch had a readlist with the two flipped scum and you as town. Also, your miller claim sorta took you off the table for a while, and that's why you weren't lynched day 1.

The point of miller is a fake guilty, it brings down town power without making the game swingy. And just because your role is confirmed doesn't mean your role can't still be mafia.

[northsidegal]

I'm a little miffed by the claim tbh but whatever role =! alignment

firebringer's claim?

also, you kind of just popped in and then popped out. nothing to say?

That’s an interesting conclusion

"interesting" how?

[northsidegal]

erm, why?

[northsidegal]

"interesting" how?

Just doesn’t seem to be matching with my perception of my own play here.

Wondering how you see that is the case

i mean, you've done a lot of just declaring reads, i haven't really noticed any visible sorting. where does your perception come form?

[northsidegal]

thought about it a bit. i wonder how much firebringer's seeming unrealization of the non-randomness of roles is real, given these:

Spoiler:

reading larges is dangerous for my health
still surprised that people did that

can't we just play pretending that guilty child is on our ignore list

this setup should be townsided with combination of
1. choose your side meta (props to LLD for reminding everyone of this beautiful thing)
2. innocent child is supposed to be the counterbalance to guilty child but it's extremely +town EV while pine is 0 EV
3. NSG is basically an innocent child as well,

along with others depending on what roles alisae assigned them personally

We can try but lol

There is a reason for Pines title

We have no mod confirmation the drafting was done as pine said btw unless I missed a post

It’s actually n setup info

This setup is confirmed to have 4 wolves and 13 villagers.
> Pine is confirmed to be the Guilty Child Impotent Treestump. So he's like, the bad guy.
> camn is confirmed to be the Innocent Child N0 Modified Masonizer Treestump. So she's like, the good guy
>

ROLES AND ALIGNMENT ARE NOT RANDOM.

> Before the game, Pine was given his choice of scum roles as well as one request to the setup in the town. From there I balanced the setup against Pine.
> After the playerlist was set, Pine and I drafted players using an EVEN spread, Pine went first, then I picked and so on.
> Whille the draft is happening, camn will send me a list of 5 people on it. From those, her mason will be chosen out of the townies through RNG.
> Once the mason is picked,

I will assign roles as I see fit.

> After all confirmations are sent in, Pine will have 24 hours to assign his roles. He can talk in wolfchat while he does this.
> There is atleast one person with a Vanilla Townie Role PM. This will be seen below.
> Both Pine and camn have strict consequences if they fail to post.
> Pine's baby is due on May 17th. When the baby arrives, I'm pausing the game for 1 week for obvious reasons (I'll keep all private topics open). Keep this in mind please

It actually doesn’t confirm draft went as pine said actually lol

It says they go back and forth not how many picks they got each time lol

[northsidegal]

cst

yes, i am playing mafia at 5 am

[northsidegal]

if it means anything to anyone i would literally never care about a mafia game at 5 am unless i was town in it

[northsidegal]

that's a towny sort

[northsidegal]

erm, why?

Because it is equally good a hard vanilla-town Gambit as it is a trueclaim strategy.

And in a game like this...is there a cop? Really? And who plays follow the cop anymore anyway?

well, i can confirm that i'm not vanilla-town gambiting.

So like

you're saying that fire knows details about the setup and he talks about it a lot in the thread

but at the same time you're seeing him act ignorant of other details?

yeah, there were some posts that he responded to / seemingly read which should have informed roles not being randomly assigned and yet he still seemed ignorant. it might just be paranoia on my part, but it could have been faked to make the claim more believable.

[northsidegal]

what would be the point of claiming miller as vanilla town? isn't a miller fakeclaim really only a scum thing?

[northsidegal]

happy birthday ellibereth!!!

[northsidegal]

Alternatively, a Gambit to discourage a miller fakeclaim by scum if youre ACTUALLY a town cop.

huh, never considered this one but it makes sense.

[northsidegal]

I play a devious and multilayered game.

Are you swearing on your life that you are a real life miller...with the inevitable implication that there is a (maybe) sane cop in this game?

yep, swearing here, although i couldn't tell you if a cop is in the game or not – sometimes (from memory, at least), millers are put in with role cops or loyal cops or things like that just for a bit of setup complexity.

I absolutely missed the miller claim, didn't see it at all, but from NSG's posts independently I've been townreading her outside of it. I see no reason to change my read based on something as irrelevant as a miller claim.

this here's a townslip btw

scum-kiana would remember all the claims i think

i disagree. even if you have reason to believe that scum-kiana would remember the miller claim, what she

said

was that she

missed

it. that's entirely different and, in my view, changes things.

---

i saw a few people townreading bbmolla, but i don't really recall seeing any explanations – could you all please explain that? i really don't see that.

also, it's kind of surprising that i have the fifth most posts of anyone, but i don't feel like i've been doing any spamming. i guess i'll try to condense things, though.

[northsidegal]

like, bbmolla's last two pop-ins were just to talk about himself and why he's town or something? nothing else:

Spoiler:

BBmolla seems to be a weak player that would be unlikely to be picked by Pine in a draft, for similar reasons to Aristophanes. I could be wrong.

and do you get this sense from this game only or for meta from elsewhere?

From this game.

I'm actually very easy to read and thus I think I'm strong in that sense tbh.

I think my scumplay is better than my townplay because then I don't have to be honest. When I'm honest people seem to get upset with me.

Off to bed, I'll post more whenever Reck decides to catch up.

BBmolla seems to be a weak player that would be unlikely to be picked by Pine in a draft, for similar reasons to Aristophanes. I could be wrong.

and do you get this sense from this game only or for meta from elsewhere?

From this game.

I'm actually very easy to read and thus I think I'm strong in that sense tbh.

I think my scumplay is better than my townplay because then I don't have to be honest. When I'm honest people seem to get upset with me.

How can your scumplay be good if you are "very easy to read"? By definition, you'd be obvscum when you're scum, so, it would necessitate poor scumplay!

This is a rhetorical question. Just an offhanded comment, I believe BBmolla is town here.

~Sora

Cause people suck at this game

before that it was just to continue the mastina tunnel:

Spoiler:

Mastina or no lynch

No lynch is actually kind of nice for ~reasons

All good Reck your vote is good

i get that these things can come from town but it really doesn't seem like they would in this case, and the strength of the whole mastina scumread seems fabricated from the start.

[northsidegal]

so who's excited for mastina's 20+ page catchup?

[northsidegal]

i don't understand your meta reads on mariar, kuuhaku, firebringer or implosion. for that matter, same with mastina really.

side note – it's funny to see how things propagate. (wrt to the script)

[northsidegal]

Drop out parama and bollards

...
Bbmolla
Autocorrect

why are you townreading bbmolla?

[northsidegal]

I may or may not have coded a version for alisae in sitechat in which you can blacklist as many players as you want

i disagree with that sort of usage, but whatever i guess.

[northsidegal]

I'm honestly surprised that you're not just taking me for my word on kiana
Although I guess you never really did like to sheep me lol

i understand where you're coming from, i just think that you're interpreting it incorrectly.

[northsidegal]

from the queue thread:

Oh dear

/In

But I'm on VLA till Wednesday

[northsidegal]

I really don't feel good about Maria, tbh.

Mulch is probably town, but honestly this town would win more frequently if he was dead (Firebringer if you're actually a vig, that's a positive EV shot. Who knows, sometimes maybe I'm wrong and they actually are scum).

Mathdino feels like scum, Reck is 100% town.

DGB is being elusive as always. Just come back to her in two days, and if none of her reads from day 1 are even remotely close to right kill her.

Firebringer, NSG both get to live a day for virtue of claims if nothing else. Also think FB is just town, but am less sure on NSG. See: my post regarding their miller claim.

Mastina/Ginngie is a distraction I will lynch into if for no other reason than it removes things for scum to hide behind and just tunnel random other people without much consequence. I'll be honest I'm just too lazy to even want to parse either one of them. The whole meta relationship thing is just so stupid.

Implosion is weird, having weird feelings about him. He's high on the EV list of Pine draft picks and low on the EV list of Alisae draft picks, and his posts aren't really filling me with good feelings.

That's about all I'm really in the mood to think about tonight, Wrestlemania blew chunks.

i don't really like this post.

like, looking at it, how many reads does it

actually

contain – i feel like the dbg, firebringer, nsg, mastina and ginngie reads all don't really say anything. that leaves maria, mulch, mathdino, reck and implosion.

i don't know, i guess i'm doubting myself on this point. it just seems to me like there isn't really a whole ton of content behind the reads that are left – like there's a lot of talking just for the sake of talking. i think the comment on implosion is kind of a good example. just "weird feelings" and not "good feelings", along with a comment about the draft EV that seems like it could apply to a lot of people.

maybe what i'm looking at isn't actually scum-indicative.

[northsidegal]

My problem with Maria is essentially like... I'm starting to see a pattern of behaviour from her in who she pushes and why,

and I think her pushing me here is something she does as scum almost triple as often as she does as town. Maybe more.

And the schtick kind of falls within her normal behaviour.... but it also just feels cheeky, and Maria scum is kind of cheeky from my experience, where as her town is far more focused and driven, so.....

could you explain this? (the bolded)

Also, I don't really know how to parse Kiana's reaction to my opening, and I'm still really put off by their opening posts but they gave me kind of genuine vibes later (the hydras posts were very genuine and authentic) so consider them on my "fuck if I know my gut says one thing and my head says another" list

which posts / what was kiana talking about that you felt was genuine?

[northsidegal]

Are you just saying that to get fire to vig someone else?

[northsidegal]

this discussion would be far more productive if people provided reasons instead of essentially just saying "you're wrong".

as far as i understand firebringer's point is just that the self-voting gambit thing only comes from scum, but i just don't see why that's the case.

[northsidegal]

on a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you want to read mastina's 30 page catchup

irrelevant

her reads are bad, she's more EV for scum than town

that's not a reason why she's scum, i'm pretty sure it's also not something that i should be going off of given that we don't have any flips yet

what reads does she have specifically that you think are bad?

literally read her first 5 posts in this thread for an actually solid argument for why lynching mastina is the right call

summarize it for me, pelase

also i don't think self-voting gambit ONLY comes from scum, not by any means. but in a bayesian sense i think it's MORE LIKELY to come from her scum-mind than her town-mind

okay, why?

like, it really seems like people just

want

to lynch mastina moreso than they actually have reasons that she's scum.

[northsidegal]

Parama slot is town 100% confirmed by the way. I do not think Parama scum replaces out like that.

I mean we do not know if he will replace out yet at all. This is quality AtE stuff he might be pulling. Hold your judgment there.

don't like this post

[northsidegal]

Alisae insulted us by giving nsg the miller instead. :<

haha, did you want to compete for being obvtown?

[northsidegal]

i think it'd be a mistake to not vig kiana.

are you really going to vig mastina just because you don't like her?

[northsidegal]

[northsidegal]

if it means anything ellibereth, i got incredibly hyped seeing that countdown.

[northsidegal]

(expired on 2018-04-11 21:03:37)

this is how long mafia has left to enjoy this game.

[northsidegal]

VOTE: brian skies

[northsidegal]

hey

can someone help me with finding power series given a function?

like, taylor series?

[northsidegal]

@mod, v/la through sunday

[northsidegal]

Friends! No! This is a setup!

I was the scum-designated mislynch. Look how fast people tried to lynch me over Mastina.

This sounds so hilariously fake

Also i read this in the voice ya boy makes when you catch him with another girl

Lol, he's just given up, I don't think he was being serous

VOTE: Brian skies

[northsidegal]

what are you talking about, alisae gave them 2-shot daycop

[northsidegal]

eh, i think it's reasonable enough to at least let everyone check in, even though brian's basically already scumclaimed.

UNVOTE:

[northsidegal]

winning is fun.

[northsidegal]

hi, i'm back, will try to sit down with this game later today

[northsidegal]

right then, focusing on this game right now. just going to stream of consciousness, honestly.

also, switched some stuff around and now i have to get my script working again. annoying.

[northsidegal]

we know that mastina's gambit and subsequently math bussing her by half-pushing for a policy lynch and half-saying that it was more likely to come from scum mastina was planned from the very start. we also know that implosion was scum. i don't actually remember what implosion's position on the mastina wagon was, but what i wonder is if it was decided that more than one scum (math) would join in on the bussing, and if so how many. all of them?

[northsidegal]

Hey.
VOTE: mastina.
Dead serious here.
I'm entering in a 1v1 with mastina.

Like. If she flips town POWER lynch me here.

I was informed that role assignment wasn't random this game.
Pine knows me to be a stellar scum player and not quite as strong a town player, yet I wasn't one of his picks for the scumteam.
But unless I massively misunderstood the game's nature: Pine did in fact get a choice in at least ONE scumbuddy, if not all three. (Something about a draft order.)
He didn't select me.

I refuse to believe he allowed both me and mastina to be town.
So lynch me, lynch mastina, doesn't matter who you lynch first but mastina is scum.
Guaranteed.

VOTE: mastina

VOTE: mastina

obviously for the sake of my pride / ego i still want to say that bbmolla is scum who was also bussing mastina, but i don't have much more to substantiate that read with now than i did previously. i also believe that he was in ellibereth's town PoE, so probably good evidence that he's town here. bah. like i said, just pride.

[northsidegal]

is aristophanes town yet?

[northsidegal]

We’re lynching mastina, this is a scumtina gambit 100%.

still want to call this level of confidence faked and part of the gambit, honestly.

[northsidegal]

does scum parama take the progression that she did on mastina? honestly not sure, but i feel like it's more likely to come from town. it still comes down to how the final scum chose to interact with the mastina wagon. looking back i can see that implosion took the route of treating mastina as a strong townread. i thought that would be more revealing, but i'm not sure what sort of conclusions to draw from it.

if i were to make a sort of shot in the dark, i might conclude that implosion only ever voted town this game. he entered with math and mastina in his town pool, but he also did this strange thing where he pointed out exactly what was going on with his scumpartners:

Math's vote on her is really strange the more that I think about it. It's in this place where he's calling it a policy vote and repeatedly espousing that she's the perfect policy lynch, but at the same time he seems to be half-assedly justifying why she is more likely scum than town. Which feels a bit intellectually disingenuous. But I still think a lot of his posting has been town. Like 88.

from the mini normal that i modded where he was scum, day one the entire scumteam was all getting scumread and were all viable lynch targets, and so he (and the rest of the scumteam) chose to throw scummy-looking votes towards each other, which ended up getting the others falsely confirmed for a while. we already know that he didn't do this with mastina and math, so i think it's reasonable to say that he didn't do it with his third partner? i think it's a question of mindset. in that other game, the mindset was "how do i make the best of this bad situation?" the answer was the throw bussing votes and even if one scum went down the others would thrive. in this game, we can be reasonably confident thanks to Ellibereth that the scumteam were playing around ellibereth from the start and would be trying to go for the long term. analyzed from that perspective i feel better about my conclusion.

[northsidegal]

I'm pretty much in my town meta. Camn is town.

Math

,

ari

, and

mastina

are solidly in their town meta, although I'm having some reservations about Math because I know he's a capable scum player. But there have been a few subtle things here that are making me read him town.

MariaR

,

kuuhaku

,

Firebringer

, and

Implosion

are also solid meta town treads. Same with northsidegal, although not as confident. And I really like Centipede's last post, but not going to lock them town yet.

I agree with basically this entire list

sans maria

. My poe pool is actually really small right now that I count the people in it (reck, shos, dgb, lld, maria).

I'm certainly wrong somewhere but alas.

might point towards kuuhaku slot being scum

that or scum being someone not mentioned here at all

[northsidegal]

Ok, just going to put this here.

I'm pretty much in my town meta. Camn is town. Math, ari, and mastina are solidly in their town meta, although I'm having some reservations about Math because I know he's a capable scum player. But there have been a few subtle things here that are making me read him town. MariaR, kuuhaku, Firebringer, and Implosion are also solid meta town treads. Same with northsidegal, although not as confident. And I really like Centipede's last post, but not going to lock them town yet.

So I feel like we're looking at 3 scum probably in here:

- Ginngie
- shos
- DrippingGoofball
- xRECKONERx
- BBmolla
- Lady Lambdadelta
- Parama-
- Centipede Syndrome (Ellibereth + Chara)

Anyone disagree?

*raise hand*

Not a single scum on that list. Nope nope nope.

You kind of suck at this, Mulch.

ugh, really annoyed my script isn't here. it's actually making me consider that pine was being serious here.

[northsidegal]

Maybe BBmolla and Mastina is another Cogito Ergo Sum and Marquis situation.

[northsidegal]

in my soul i still feel it's bbmolla

[northsidegal]

{nsg}
{Mulch}
{Ginngie}
{MariaR, Lady Lambdadelta}
{Keychain, Aristophanes, DrippingGoofball, shos} <- too lazy to sort tier
{Madoka and Homura}
{BBmolla}

[northsidegal]

on further retrospection i feel like much of what i looked at would make sense with an absentee 4th scumbuddy for day one

implosion leaving the last scumbuddy out of his initial townreads
ellibereth only getting the three
mastina's attempt at accelerating her own lynch

with that in mind that'd probably raise madoka/homura and lower basically that entire lazy tier (probably shos and dgb specifically, keychain less so)

[northsidegal]

being honest with myself list:

{nsg}
{Mulch}
{Ginngie}
{MariaR, Lady Lambdadelta}
{Madoka and Homura, BBmolla}
{Keychain, Aristophanes}
{DrippingGoofball, shos}

[northsidegal]

that's all i've got for now i think

[northsidegal]

if i'm wrong on one of my townreads it's lld i think

[northsidegal]

Ooh, finally an excuse to quote that thing from a bit ago

[northsidegal]

i honestly forget that there was an ic in this game. sorry, i'm in a lot of games right now and i think i mixed things up. i wasn't trying to troll, i was naked voting to try to bait reactions.
UNVOTE:

I was going to argue that using the word honestly here was an indication of scumminess as some players use it when they know that they are lying, but then I looked back through the finished games north played in.

Spoiler: nsg's "honestly" posts in completed games

newbie 1828 - town
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73591&p=9665336&hi ... y#p9665336
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73591&p=9723752&hi ... y#p9723752
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73591&p=9723494&hi ... y#p9723494
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73591&p=9665336&hi ... y#p9665336

Open 700 - town
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=73760&p=9745804&hi ... y#p9745804
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=73760&p=9720461&hi ... y#p9720461

Newbie 1826 - town
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73448&p=9754409&hi ... y#p9754409
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73448&p=9743411&hi ... ly#p974341

Micro 753 - town
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=73827&p=9785029&hi ... y#p9785029
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=73827&p=9731171&hi ... y#p9731171


Mini 1964 - town
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73968&p=9766735&hil ... y#p9766735
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73968&p=9768914&hil ... y#p9768914
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73968&p=9785091&hil ... y#p9785091
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73968&p=9789888&hil ... y#p9789888

Micro 758
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=74032&p=9795396&hi ... y#p9795396


Newbie 1836 - scum
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=74039&p=9799732&hi ... y#p9799732

Turns out nsg seems to say "honestly" more often when town.

[northsidegal]

hard data + meta = justice

[northsidegal]

aka paragonllibereth

[northsidegal]

Is shos being completely unaware of what happened to the scumteam a towntell? I guess a preliminary question would be whether or not the confusion is legitimate in the first place.

[northsidegal]

LLD who's your real scumread?

Saying that it's us is a scumclaim.

You realize I literally cannot be scum due to my role claim?

And it's you.

How does being a redirector make you literally unable to be scum?

[northsidegal]

Since they know I'm a power role anyway

-If I'm a vig or vig variant, I tried to shoot implosion
-If I'm a cop or cop variant, I green checked Madoka
- If I'm a protective or protective variant, I protected Elli in the night
- If I'm a different type of role, I visited Shos in the night.

this guy dead yet? ^_^;


pedit:
because ffs I need to understand what the hell happened and what conclusions I can get from previous posts of people obviously
and I don't get it

did he just go "oh yeah lets kill these three" and town virtually all cooperated and everyone of those turned up scum? because this is how it seems from the game I'm reading and I'm sort of in shock



are there FACTS that we know of? cop results? rolecops? mod confimarions?? Has anyone alive already claimed?

ellibereth is good

that's really all there is to it

[northsidegal]

we know that mastina's gambit and subsequently math bussing her by half-pushing for a policy lynch and half-saying that it was more likely to come from scum mastina was planned from the very start. we also know that implosion was scum. i don't actually remember what implosion's position on the mastina wagon was, but what i wonder is if it was decided that more than one scum (math) would join in on the bussing, and if so how many. all of them?

Uhhhh that was me who said those things about mastina, not math

if you're referring to the "half-policy half more likely to come from scum", i'm fairly certain that it was math.

[northsidegal]

northsidegal ------ 2 ( shos(23), DrippingGoofball(29) ) L- 4

what

[northsidegal]

would anyone like to talk to me about reasons why people are scum, without yelling?

[northsidegal]

[northsidegal]

Do you want me to quote my page 83 posts

Is what I said just uninspired or something and that's why nobody responded

[northsidegal]

I absolutely missed the miller claim, didn't see it at all, but from NSG's posts independently I've been townreading her outside of it. I see no reason to change my read based on something as irrelevant as a miller claim.

this here's a townslip btw

scum-kiana would remember all the claims i think

Kinda town spewy

UNVOTE:

you think so? i think scum mathdino would definitely use some kind of made up townslip to clear a buddy of his. if anything i think it's

more

of a reason to scumread that slot.

[northsidegal]

Damn Pine

Are you actually doing research to discredit people?

Pine was in that game (so was I)

[northsidegal]

Someone please respond to anything I'm saying!

[northsidegal]

I absolutely missed the miller claim, didn't see it at all, but from NSG's posts independently I've been townreading her outside of it. I see no reason to change my read based on something as irrelevant as a miller claim.

this here's a townslip btw

scum-kiana would remember all the claims i think

Kinda town spewy

UNVOTE:

you think so? i think scum mathdino would definitely use some kind of made up townslip to clear a buddy of his. if anything i think it's

more

of a reason to scumread that slot.

[northsidegal]

VOTE: madoka

[northsidegal]

why maria?

[northsidegal]

omg, i need to get my script working again.

[northsidegal]

the second lowest poster yesterday, hadn't claimed (as far as i know), didn't seem to have any individual read that nobody else has. (except perhaps the keychain vote?)

had supposedly been conftowned by LLD the redirector.

[northsidegal]

I suppose there are few appealing kills. Not sure why ginngie or LLD wouldn't be targeted, but everyone else is either a lurker or a mislynch target. i guess i'm considering myself in the "lurker" category there.

[northsidegal]

what does a redirector even have to do in this setup?

[northsidegal]

Hi everyone!

Read most of the game in its entirety last night, pretty confident with the reads I have so far, hope we can wrap this game up today~ ^_^

what would those reads be?

[northsidegal]

what was the point of the nexus?

[northsidegal]

why maria?

Likely cause she was almost conf town by LLD

VOTE: shos

right, i feel like that's the obvious conclusion, but it begs the question - why not kill LLD?

[northsidegal]

hadn't realized it was odd-night.

[northsidegal]

are things really that simple?

[northsidegal]

Waiting on nsg

really just waiting on the question of "did i know it was L-1"?

i'm pretty sure i did.

[northsidegal]

i don't think this is as big of a deal as you're making it out to be.

[northsidegal]

right then, going to try to effort this right now.

[northsidegal]

i can't remember why i was townreading mulch so much but i feel like i had good reasons.

[northsidegal]

oh yeah, ellibereth had mulch as town.

[northsidegal]

Hm, shos, DGB and Aristo.

Is it really just shos? I still feel like things make sense early game with lurkscum, but that applies to pretty much all three of those people. Aristo seems towny, DGB has the weird claim. I guess i feel like it's probably just not that simple.

[northsidegal]

Keychain come talk to me

[northsidegal]

What changed your mind on the kill pointing away from shos?

[northsidegal]

VOTE: shos

[northsidegal]

keychain, let's say we're wrong on shos. who do you think it'd be?

[northsidegal]

we're mostly in agreement then.

[northsidegal]

we're mostly in agreement then.

God, how uncomfortable, don't we normally disagree on things?

hm, i don't actually remember. didn't we agree on espeonage being scum back in 1964?

I'm dead tonight, so maybe I should get another crack at this...

Who the fuck do I lynch...

LLD I like your new avatar! Updated thoughts on who we lynch?

keychain didn't compliment my new avatar

[northsidegal]

D:
I did think it but I didn't say it! It's cute.

We agreed on Espe I think because we lynched him but not on Dunnstral, and in Tarot we disagreed on garaputo at the end. Both times you were right and I was wrong haha. What I mean is we've always found

something

to argue over.

well, if you'd like to discuss something, what do you think of katsuki and bbmolla? i think mulch was pretty strongly town such that i think so is katsuki, and bbmolla is still my personal / selfish scumread. i feel like he hit a lot of the same beats early game that individually was scummy and looking back was consistent with what the rest of the scumteam was doing. of course, that read relies on me seeing something where ellibereth didn't so probably unlikely, but still interested to hear what you make of it.

there's also the fact that i still think the early game scum interactions make more sense with lurker scum as the last buddy. i think i've already explained this, i'll go back and see if i can quote it or if not just explain it.

back in 1964

nice phrasing

[northsidegal]

Why Mulch town?

Cuz...hear me out here... obviously Mulch worships Elli.
How would he play it if he rolled scum against him here?
How would he enter this game?

i mean, if i had to guess, probably not people specifically to not end the day before elli can get a reliable read on himself?

i feel like the way mulch would play around that as scum would be to either get a really quick end to the day or to absolutely flood the thread.

i also think that Ellibereth already accounted for people deliberately trying to play around him - that's basically how he caught mastina and math.

[northsidegal]

shos is at 3 votes by my count (pretty sure pine's vote doesn't count).

i don't think anyone else has any votes.

[northsidegal]

Why wouldn't pine have told katsuki the mistake?

[northsidegal]

LLD, you should have an inno for us after last night shouldn't you? please claim it.

Also it seems like you're taking the approach that your claim clears you. Why is that? From my perspective it could be a scum role.

Who would have killed Ginngie and not me? someone who doesn't pay attention to games by their own admission and wouldn't have really known I was a power role if, say, they didn't consult with their scum QT first.

Scum also killed Maria, presumably because of your clear, so I don't think this "you didn't know I was a PR" approach makes sense.

The Maria kill was made before katsuki replaced in.

[northsidegal]

Why wouldn't pine have told katsuki the mistake?

[northsidegal]

I mean who sends scum nightkills in not through the pt

This all feels pretty choreographed from you, honestly.

[northsidegal]

Like this is the shit that annoys me. Players who empty quote themselves asking questions that

I have already answered

because they refuse to pass a basic literacy test and play the actual game.

It's like, fucking read my post at least before you pretend to play the game.

Your explanation doesn't make sense to me. I was looking to see if there was a more sensical one

[northsidegal]

Not reading through the entire scum pt and missing something is something I can believe. Pine not saying, after the nk is submitted, "hey maybe that's a bad idea" is harder to believe within the framework of your current explanation.

[northsidegal]

What part of

KATSUKI DIDN'T READ THE SCUM QT

did you not understand?

It isn't that pine wouldn't say it, it's that Kats would NEVER SEE IT.

Are you referring to before submitting the nightkill, or after?

[northsidegal]

Erm...

Wait, pretty sure lld is scum. Like, the answer to why lld didn't die the night Maria died was "kill conftown and then kill the source", but that still gives the opportunity for LLD creating another clear.

[northsidegal]

This logic is awful.

What about my logic is awful? Or are you just disagreeing with the conclusion of lynching you first?

[northsidegal]

Either way if we assume scum is confirmed to be in this group it means elli was wrong on a townread.

Which has precedent.

[northsidegal]

It's not a perfect guilty.

Options:
1. LLD redirected Katsuki's kill to Ginngie
2. LLD killed Ginngie
3. Someone other than the two of them killed Ginngie


LLD, why did you redirect to Ginngie? Seems an odd choice.

Literally, after I called her scum yesterday, I felt she would be the LAST PERSON scum would kill. My other thought was Aristophanes, but I felt that it was better to go with Ginngie, feels like a more "out there" kill.

I wanted to limit the chance of scum blocking me or fucking with my result and then killing the person I redirected to.

Why not redirect to someone you think is scum?

[northsidegal]

And is there a problem with you outing whatever role related thing it is where you need to live to tomorrow?

[northsidegal]

It's not a perfect guilty.

Options:
1. LLD redirected Katsuki's kill to Ginngie
2. LLD killed Ginngie
3. Someone other than the two of them killed Ginngie


LLD, why did you redirect to Ginngie? Seems an odd choice.

Literally, after I called her scum yesterday, I felt she would be the LAST PERSON scum would kill. My other thought was Aristophanes, but I felt that it was better to go with Ginngie, feels like a more "out there" kill.

I wanted to limit the chance of scum blocking me or fucking with my result and then killing the person I redirected to.

Why not redirect to someone you think is scum?

I would assume she redirected the player she thought is scum. And this couldn’t redirect the target to themselves.

Can you not redirect people to themselves?

Either way, it still seems like Ginngie would still be a bad choice over, say, DGB?

[northsidegal]

DGB is basically conf town with her claim, and I could easily have seen scum trying to kill her if they chose not to kill me, how are you this dense?

I disagree. I don't think that makes me dense.

If you think it'd be me over Molla, why not redirect to me then?

[northsidegal]

I feel like I'm asking reasonable questions. You calling me dense over them only makes me feel like you're dodging reasonable questions.

I realize it may be painful to deal with an intellect so low as mine, but if the questions I ask are so illogical, shouldn't it be easy to show that?

[northsidegal]

Why would I redirect TO scum.

I want to Redirect SCUM TO someone scum would NEVER KILL.

There's only ONE scum.

So the person I think is sucm is the person I'm REDIRECTING not the person I'm REDIRECTING TO.

How is this hard

Obviously I realize that the person you're redirecting is meant to be scum. What I'm saying is that, given the goal of redirecting to someone scum would never kill, your target choice of redirecting

to

ginngie doesn't make much sense to me.

[northsidegal]

Literally, after I called her scum yesterday, I felt she would be the LAST PERSON scum would kill. My other thought was Aristophanes, but I felt that it was better to go with Ginngie, feels like a more "out there" kill.

Like, ginngie doesn't seem like a more "out there" kill to me than aristo at all.

[northsidegal]

Literally, after I called her scum yesterday, I felt she would be the LAST PERSON scum would kill. My other thought was Aristophanes, but I felt that it was better to go with Ginngie, feels like a more "out there" kill.

Like, ginngie doesn't seem like a more "out there" kill to me than aristo at all.

with me calling her scum, from the perspective of trying to frame me (Which is the only scenario where this matters)?

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.