Large Normal 220: Jazz Mafia [Game Over!]

[Something_Smart]

I was going to fake a guilty on the IC. Dammit. Who will I fake a guilty on now?

[Something_Smart]

No, I'M mason!

[Something_Smart]

I was going to fake a guilty on the IC. Dammit. Who will I fake a guilty on now?

Your predecessor was a funny guy you have big shoes to fill

Not gonna lie, I read his ISO after agreeing to replace in, and he and I could not be more different

So good luck with that.

[Something_Smart]

No, I'M mason!

Vote Elsa Jay mason

Oh right, you're my mason buddy.

But I'm a mason one-shot cop and I got a guilty on you, so how can I trust you...

[Something_Smart]

Two more posts after this one and I can start taking the game seriously.

[Something_Smart]

Elsa claimed vig, right?

And no, I'm trolling. There's a fine line

[Something_Smart]

Thonking intensifies.

[Something_Smart]

Okay, I'm done shitposting for now. (Or was I ever really shitposting? )

Before anything, we need Elsa to confirm who he shot.

[Something_Smart]

Elsa’s probably town.

Any, uh, reason for this?

Do you know why his shot failed?

[Something_Smart]

Oh yeah I don't see why Baezu would hammer that as scum.

[Something_Smart]

Wait, who’s your mason?

I must have missed all that, lol

I just replaced into this 100-page game yesterday and I know the answer to this

[Something_Smart]

I didn’t even know you were in this game.

I am \o/

I replaced in overnight

[Something_Smart]

Lover Suicide Bomber Vig, obviously

[Something_Smart]

:thonk:

[Something_Smart]

Or roleblocked to mislynch town Elsa?

[Something_Smart]

Why is Elsa avoiding the thread?

[Something_Smart]

I mean it's just annoying either way

I just want to know who he shot and why he thinks it failed before we move on

[Something_Smart]

Why would scum Elsa avoid thread when I’m here hard defending.

It don make no snens

Try to lurk out the wagon?

Idk his mind works in mysterious ways

[Something_Smart]

Well Boon

What I want to know is if he can shoot again, and if his shot will be interfered with again.

I'm not going to say what I want to do afterward, because that could give him a cue as to what to say.

THAT's why him lurking is so annoying-- because it's proper play to make the game grind to a halt until he arrives.

[Something_Smart]

If that's the case, he should say so.

Reason being that if scum weren't able to mess with his shot, they know he's bullshitting anyway.

[Something_Smart]

Excuse me that's afk ACTIVE lurker to you.

[Something_Smart]

I think ofrhz is either scum or town

Probably

[Something_Smart]

Nuu not Tet he was my best friend

[Something_Smart]

Vork do I need to make it more obvious?

[Something_Smart]

Boon knock it off. I get that you're annoyed that Tet died but you don't know the half of it :/

[Something_Smart]

I don't really see why you'd necessarily be mislynched though? Like if a Boon scumteam has two of its members lynched on the first two days, something has gone horribly wrong.

[Something_Smart]

There probably is someone who can inno you, though, but I doubt they've done it already.

Guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

[Something_Smart]

When are we going to lynch Baezu?

In my extremely well-informed opinion, she gets a pass for a while for the last-minute A50 hammer. Unless I'm mistaken she could have just pretended not to be around.

[Something_Smart]

I would be surprised if 2751 came from an A50/Elsa partner.

[Something_Smart]

But it is town indicative.

[Something_Smart]

TLK, what differentiates your town game from your scum game? Why is this the former?

[Something_Smart]

It was BEF, but I think the point was that Ank, who was scum, said it was bizarre.

[Something_Smart]

ofrhz
Flavor Leaf
The Last Knight
Something_Smart

This is my pool right now for the last scum. TLK doesn’t feel scum but he sort of has the defeatist or woe is me like tone going on that doesn’t really make sense since we have curb stomping scum.

That's, uh, not a great pool.

[Something_Smart]

Are you... claiming traffic analyst?

[Something_Smart]

This is unreal.

But I'll wait for them to claim before I say anything more.

[Something_Smart]

@Something - who do you think I really checked and what were my results? You can probably tell.

I think you only have one check, from last night.

[Something_Smart]

To be clear, I believe your role is even-night traffic analyst.

That or this game is yet another in a string of weird coincidences.

[Something_Smart]

well, at least I knew Tet wasn't in a PT. All good that did me.

Are

you

shitting

me?

[Something_Smart]

Boon, please explain what the hell is going on.

I refuse to believe this is a coincidence.

[Something_Smart]

Boon please. Don't pull this shit on me again.

[Something_Smart]

Did I miss something? He was visibly confused and then all he said was that he didn't believe that what happened were just coincidences.

Which actually now that I say it I'm not sure what he is referring to exactly.

Nah, you didn't miss anything. My reasoning for Boon town is fairly, but not completely, solid: he busses as a last resort and very highly believes in the power of scumteams to win by working together.

Especially given the influence he often has on the game, if he's scum he probably can, and certainly will, prevent his buddies from being lynched D1 and D2.

NOW the shit he's been claiming is a different matter entirely, and I should probably just let the cat out of the bag on that one, because I guess I've been kinda obvious.

[Something_Smart]

See, Boon is playing with my head and I don't like it.

I'm an odd-night traffic analyst.

Spoiler: crumbs

No, I'M mason!

Vote Elsa Jay mason

Oh right, you're my mason buddy.

But I'm a mason one-shot cop and I got a guilty on you, so how can I trust you...

(What do you call a cop that also gets a guilty on masons?)

And:

I

was going to fake a guilty on the IC. Dammit. Who will I fake a guilty on now?

N

o, I'M mason!

I was going to fake a guilty on the IC. Dammit. Who will I fake a guilty on now?

Your predecessor was a funny guy you have big shoes to fill

N

ot gonna lie, I read his ISO after agreeing to replace in, and he and I could not be more different

So good luck with that.

No, I'M mason!

Vote Elsa Jay mason

O

h right, you're my mason buddy.

But I'm a mason one-shot cop and I got a guilty on you, so how can I trust you...

T

wo more posts after this one and I can start taking the game seriously.

E

lsa claimed vig, right?

And no, I'm trolling. There's a fine line

T

honking intensifies.

Now that we have two scum flips, I can't be sure that my innos are real, because there could only be one scum left (or one scum plus a traitor).

[Something_Smart]

Lol yes. Tet was my N1 target.

[Something_Smart]

Because of Boon's bullshit.

[Something_Smart]

But, if you think about it, if we're both wary of the other then we're actually probably both just town. Or at least that's what I want to think you are. If either of us were scum, we'd fully engage and force the other into a 1v1.

Maybe you disagree but I think that if one of us were scum, we would have spilled the beans by now.

TLK you want to explain why you talked to your inno this way?

[Something_Smart]

I don't believe PT cop is normal anyway. Just traffic analyst.

[Something_Smart]

ss what are your reads?

I don't freaking know.

Baezu FL Bu ofrhz could be town?

Lucian could be scum?

Le shrug. I haven't been in the game long enough for this.

[Something_Smart]

Vorkuta and Enigma are masons, so remove Enigma.

[Something_Smart]

Sig bets are against the rules, knock it off.

[Something_Smart]

Sig bets are against the rules, knock it off.

Dang, it's all in good fun though.

The problem is that it's an out of game influence. If you're town you can do something like "if I'm scum here I will put [insert awful thing here] in my sig for five years" and then you either have to go back on it when you are scum, which defeats the whole point of the bet and pisses people off, or you actually do it as scum, which is doing an out-of-game action for the sake of winning a game.

It gets worse when you think about statements like "if I'm scum I'll pay you a hundred bucks" or "if I'm scum I'll quit mafia forever." You can say these things as town and they mean nothing, but they mean a lot if you say them as scum, which is problematic.

If people see you promising to do a thing if you're scum that they know you won't do, and you have a reputation for always keeping those promises, then that's a trust tell-- and they're illegal. If Boon hasn't already explained to you what a trust tell is, you can ask him to (since I know he's gotten in trouble for them in the past)

[Something_Smart]

Did RC and I cause that?

In all honesty, I would not be surprised.

[Something_Smart]

Interesting, so he did. I'm surprised that nobody else remembered that.

And you think that my mafia partners wouldn't have told me this?

[Something_Smart]

Do you think it's more likely that I'm actually traffic analyst or that I'm actually VT?

[Something_Smart]

It seems that apparently PT Cop is both normal and more popular. But traffic analyst is also normal.

[Something_Smart]

But, uh, yeah.

I was not exactly thrilled to replace into a game and see that four-- count 'em, four-- people had been forced to claim confirmable town roles on D1. (One of them was evil, but even still.)

[Something_Smart]

LUV is, unfortunately, correct in that regard, though I don't see why he had to go and point it out.

[Something_Smart]

That whole exchange regarding Boon’s claim and then you claiming read fake as hell to me and I have you in my POE pool so.

But I’ll listen, why did you fake claim?

I mean, yes, it was intentionally overdone and I assumed that the more insightful players would see through it

But I think the reason was pretty self-explanatory. With two masons and an IC outed on D1, anything a VT can do to catch a bullet is a good thing. Course I maybe should have read through BoomBoom's ISO more carefully but to be honest I actually was thrown by Boon claiming the same thing I was planning on claiming
(And not gonna lie, reading BoomBoom stressed me out )

[Something_Smart]

I honestly don’t like SS fake claim

Saudade, what do you make of that?

What don't you like about it? (I mean aside from the execution which was sloppy, but intentionally so. This was not meant to trick someone like Boon. In fact if I'd lived to D4 I probably would have put Boon as my inno because if he were scum he'd already have known I was bluffing.)

You remember how I wanted to fakeclaim doctor in BTX, right?

[Something_Smart]

I believe bef

VOTE: tlk

Some of tlk’s posts don’t match up to his alleged scumread on saudade

He is a gunsmith though

We are definitely in a position where we can afford to give him a day.

[Something_Smart]

V/LA until Monday

[Something_Smart]

TLK got fruit = we have a fruit dispensary.

I'm gonna guess he just made that up.

[Something_Smart]

Spoiler: @Smart

I think whoever the remaining members of the scum team are would probably be looking to kill off confirmed town. Baezu and Creature (who can’t be anymore transparently town) are practically confirmed town levels here too as well. I also doubt we have a scum team of all goons so who knows if scum had a way to deal with your fake claim.

You may have just subbed in but I feel like as town you would see the dire situation scum are in right now as well as who’s flipped and not have attempted to fake claim.

I just don’t like how you opened at all today. One on hand, it feels like you didn’t know how you stood amongst one of the strongest players in the game at the moment and tried to appeal to him early starting from 3235. Then on the other, feels like some weird sort of WIFOM thing Boon and a partner would do when you go into your claim starting at 3426.

And yeah, Boom Boom was something else for sure

Never got a chance to respond to this.

The point of the claim was to create something that scum would rather kill than a conftown. A mason or an IC is just a conftown, but a traffic analyst can clear more players the longer they are left alive, so if scum believed my claim and didn't think they could mislynch me through it, it would be right for them to kill me before a conftown.

And it is unlikely that scum had a PR to deal with it. Pretty much the only PR that they could have used to stop a traffic analyst is a roleblocker, but roleblocker anti-synergizes with masons and IC and I seriously doubt that one would exist in this setup.

[Something_Smart]

And for the record, Boon, I would have never let TLK claim odd-night gunsmith.

Odd-night cop claims are always false. And you and I should know this better than anyone

(For the record, this is actually a really good rule to live by. If someone claims odd-night cop or something similar, they're very likely lying.)

[Something_Smart]

why were you on Elsa and not on skitter

Because babysitter should be targeting scumreads, not townreads, if they think there's a chance they will die at night?

[Something_Smart]

I mean that makes sense Baezu. Babysitter is intentionally a weird role that can be played several different ways and can backfire if you pick the wrong one.

But now that you're an outed babysitter you DEFINITELY shouldn't target a townread

[Something_Smart]

Creature you broke the site

[Something_Smart]

Oh wow.

LUV being scum in that VC would be WILD.

[Something_Smart]

Vork stop breaking the site

[Something_Smart]

Wanna bet you eat rope today?

If you lose you put the "i lost to saudade the king" in your signature for a week

@TLK
fix that signature up

Stop this shit.

[Something_Smart]

I'm VT btw. I pretty much claimed yesterday.

[Something_Smart]

I'm amazed ofrhz isn't a mason with how much Vork was defending him.

I would have pushed him yesterday but I thought Vork was softing to stay away.

[Something_Smart]

Oh never mind, ofrhz is a mason and they told him to claim VT for shits and giggles.

[Something_Smart]

LUV's claim is the worst I've heard in a while.

Why would you target the IC as voyeur?

[Something_Smart]

The only action that would maybe target them is a protective, if there was one.

And why not? Well, imagine the IC dies and you get seen by a tracker or a watcher. That wouldn't be great, now, would it?

Also, if you knew there was a motion detector, why act N3 when no motion on you confirms you as town?

[Something_Smart]

Well it doesn't confirm him, but it does make his claim really damn convenient.

[Something_Smart]

Nobody cares about a sweep except for ego purposes.

I think the play is this. Lynchpool is {roster, Saudade, BuJ, S_S, ofrhz if he isn't mason}, unless I missed someone.

We lynch someone from this group, and LUV names a player in that group and targets them. Baezu names a second player from the group, and flips a coin, randomly targeting either her name or LUV's. BEF targets someone who was not named. Tomorrow we claim actions LUV -> BEF -> Baezu.

[Something_Smart]

Cool, another conftown

You should vend to LUV imo.

[Something_Smart]

Oh yeah, that's true. You can do the same thing as Baezu and flip a coin between her two targets, making it even harder for LUV to guess a result.

[Something_Smart]

I kinda feel like scum getting neighborized and asking if the neighborizer is loyal is not rolefishing... :thonk:

(Although it is LAMIST )

[Something_Smart]

I seriously doubt that scum passed up a kill to use their action.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, I would ask that question.

Yah because you are the definition of LAMIST as both alignments. It isn't fishing though.

[Something_Smart]

This exchange made me imply S_S has something on orfhz and I backed

Oops

That comment was only meant to soft I was a PR, not that I had info on ofrhz

[Something_Smart]

I seriously doubt that scum passed up a kill to use their action.

This. Scums too far behind to ever attempt a no kill.

Although I have seen it. Maria did it in TIAM's game that you always forget about.

[Something_Smart]

Btw

This is why the multitasking rule sucks

We're stuck with modwifom of "but what if Saudade is a scum multitasking neighborizer or Baezu is a scum multitasking loud role" and there's no way to get out of it.

[Something_Smart]

That’s the game LUV forfeited I thought? Unless that was TIAM’s other game.

Idk. I think I blackout any memory of TIAM so I don’t lose it

No, a different one. You were scum on Morality and got tracker guiltied. That's probably why you forgot it

[Something_Smart]

Lots of idiots in this table

:'(

[Something_Smart]

Saudade: The Neighborizer That Was An Asshole To Everyone

[Something_Smart]

Vork don't engage him.

[Something_Smart]

We could have waited and verified TLK as well

Leaving TLK alive was giving advantage for scum even after lynching TLK. Leaving last scum alive for now then lynching them later isn't any advantage.

Well, it is because we don't know they're scum. It may be that the plan that gives us the highest chance if winning leaves the last scum alive a few more days, but it doesn't make it a bad plan.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: roster

[Something_Smart]

Wait.

This is it!!

They role copped Creature!

Nerfed knew about the even-night

*doubting intensifies*

[Something_Smart]

I think scum's in {BuJ LUV roster}, mechanically it's bad to lynch LUV when his claim can be confirmed.

[Something_Smart]

Unless he's multitasking he can't voyeur and kill in the same night.

[Something_Smart]

Unless he's multitasking he can't voyeur and kill in the same night.

Tbh if we go down this rabbit hole we have to reopen quite a few doors.

Yes. This is why leaving the multitasking question open rather than answering it in the ruleset is bad.

But that's a matter for the NRG and not for the game mods.

[Something_Smart]

Thanks LUV, I appreciate that. I would have continued to push against lynching you despite thinking you were most likely scum.

I know from experience that being the last scum in a situation where everyone thinks you're scum but it's technically better to leave you alive sucks. (Though you probably would have ended up lynched anyway, because nobody ever listens to me )

[Something_Smart]

What was your actual role luv? Tbh this setup still feels townsided. Though I guess it’ll feel like that no matter what because of the chain scum lynches

Yeah I mean any setup's townsided when you lynch scum three days in a row

[Something_Smart]

Eh alien's not that strong when the majority of town's power doesn't visit.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, he’s gotta put that sig up.

That wasn’t even an alignment orientated bet, tbh.

That was a “i bet i can get you lynched today” bet

Nope. It's still game-related, and therefore still an outside influence.

[Something_Smart]

Also I am willing to disconsider the antitown fakeclaims that happened this game.

In fairness, I think it would have worked if Boom hadn't claimed VT like a genius.

[Something_Smart]

Holy shit yeah. That's way too many conftowns.

Also wtf why would you loyal neighborize a mason.

[Something_Smart]

It wasn't unwinnable, but I think Ank's right that scum need to get the nightplay right to have any chance. The loyal neighborizer basically needs to die or be jailkept after a few nights or it will absolutely run away with the game.

[Something_Smart]

yes thank you for modding, sky

don't let my complaining take away from that, your modding was very good this game and I appreciate you taking our criticisms in stride

Seconded!

(Though, one bit of feedback: it would be nice, if you have videos in VC's, to put them in spoilers. Because multiple times I wanted to ISO you while on my phone, and it just wouldn't load )

[Something_Smart]

To be fair Boon, most of my ability to read you comes from the fact that all games where you're scum go pretty much the same way, and if the game's not going that way you're probably town

And a lot of times when you're scum you back yourself mechanically into a corner in a way that most people can't see

That's probably why my worst misread of you was in an open setup, now that I think about it.