Mini 621 - Pantsville (Game over!)

[Lowell]

vote erratus

. If he threatens to quit he's scum.

[Lowell]

FOS clockwork

. That's the second time he's taken the path of least resistance and tried to look useful while being opportunistic.

unvote, vote guzame

. I highly doubt reborn is scum, more like your standard, run-of-the-mill reckless townie. The fact that guzame seems intent on goading him on rings alarm bells for me.

[Lowell]

^^^^ post 79

Very much agree.

[Lowell]

Also, calling for a prod is super-weak and retarded.

[Lowell]

Eh, minor scumness from this post ^^^.

unvote, vote yos

[Lowell]

For whatever reason I find reborn actually to likely be pro-town.

Those on the chensi wagon: how serious are you about it? Is this just one of those safe vote zones, or is there something I should know that I'm missing? TBH, I don't see much.

[Lowell]

Yos still reads a loooot like scum to me. Go with me on this, people.

[Lowell]

^^^ agree with this

[Lowell]

(so of course it would have to be on a different page)

That's right, I agree with the title of the game.

[Lowell]

Damn straight. I'm not about to get blamed for Quag agreeing with me.

Yos, I won't go back right now, but in my initial vote of you I explained that I think you're playing a bit more cautious than when you're town. There was one post in particular that looked opportunistic and odd. Six pages in, that's MORE than enough for a vote.

[Lowell]

reborn makes no sense.

post 211 still doesn't seem like the Yos I remember. Lazier, mostly. And more meta.

[Lowell]

214 = bad (setting up future lynches and not taking responsibility for a vote)
213 = good (explaining the brilliant reasoning in my head that I hadn't thought of)

[Lowell]

Also, what does "Lowell is gambiting" mean? This guy makes literally no sense to me.

[Lowell]

No. That's retarded. I don't play retarded.

[Lowell]

@reborn- If you don't like the case on Yos all of a sudden, what were you doing on the bandwagon in the first place? What changed? Also, don't lump me in with Quag.

@yos- you HAVE been more meta this time. Taking time to explain the rules/basic strategy? Isn't there scumhunting to be done? I agree with quag's assessment that a single vote, on page 6, with not that much reasoning attached, isn't such a big deal. Not to say I'm not RIGHT about you, mind you, but still.

Also, EA is definately town. I like 235, and pretty much everything he's done.

[Lowell]

Okay, you guys are right.

unvote, vote clockwork

. Nothing about his defense does anything for me.

FOS Yos

. I'm still convinced he's scum. He's different than in other games I've played with him.

[Lowell]

Chenhsi is around, he's just not talking (he is posting in other games).

If this is true I could vote for him.

[Lowell]

I'd switch to chensi at deadline if it comes to that, but I'd still rather see Clockwork hang.

[Lowell]

I probably won't be available tomorrow. And at this point I'm happy with either clockwork or chensi. I'll switch my vote if I need to, depending on the count.

mod

can I see a vote count?

FOS Farkshin

. I'm not really sure what you're trying to do with that last post. It look a *little* like you're trying to back away.

[Lowell]

You'll notice that I still have my vote on him.

It's just that scum or town, he seems to be deliberately trying to get lynched. If he wanted out of the game, I wish he had earlier asked for a replacement, instead of trying to get lynched.

Or he's playing the all-too-common-recently "whatever, I didn't want to play anyway" card caught scum use to make themselves feel better about themselves. A defense has a chance of failing. Not trying can't fail.

unvote, vote chensi

. At least clockwork pretends to do something...

[Lowell]

^^^ I agree with Adel's approach to this.

[Lowell]

I believe reborn's claim, if for no other reason than because it's pointless for scum to claim a role like that on D1. What does lynching CR have to do with reborn's claim being true? Not that I oppose the former.

[Lowell]

Not to look like parroting, but I'm not a huge fan of Adel's 406. She's plays the inquisitive player, but sort of brushed off fark's questions.

I don't really like it when players say "yeah, I thought (townplayer X) was scum, too." It looks like trying too hard to appear fallible and clueless, aka town.

[Lowell]

Massclaiming is stupid, we're not doing it. The mod is good enough to make sure it doesn't break the game and remember we've lost a lot of townies already, and mass claiming isn't helping anyone except the scum.

I don't agree with the second part of this, but I do agree with the first.

[Lowell]

I actually agree with orange's 431.

I'm not a huge proponent of analyzing night kills, but I get why some people are. So I don't find it particularly scummy for people to suggest it, but Adel's post does so sort of backhandedly. Like "well, I don't necessarily agree with strategy X, but let me go ahead and vote based on strategy X." I think she ought to own it more if that's what she believes.

[Lowell]

Are we all claiming? Is it my turn?

[Lowell]

It is. Sorry for the holdup. Away for the weekend.

I am a townsperson. I have no abilities other than if (and only if) I am the last pro-town player remaining with one remaining non-town player I can win the game because of my dueling abilities.

Also, an insect is referenced in my PM.

[Lowell]

Oh, right. Forgot how this worked.

Cedricson next. I have a theory.

[Lowell]

Is there any flavour in your PM Lowell?

Not really. I didn't realize the townie PM is listed on 1st page. It's similar, except has a bit of flavour about duels and dueling abilities.

[Lowell]

vote guzame

. I have a feeling he's lying about his claim.

To answer your question, I'll PM the mod, but no, my role doesn't say anything in particular about a gun.

And I don't think my role makes me more likely to be around at endgame. If anything it makes me LESS likely.

[Lowell]

I'm here. May not have access again until vacation ends on Saturday. Not an excuse to lynch me.

The insect in my PM is a non-issue. I just read the townie PM, it's the same.

I still don't like Guzame's claim, and I think the number of people claiming to be "normal" townies is too high. Given the number of quasi-vanilla roles, I can't see there being so many pure vanilla.

For now internet time is limited. If I can steal wireless I'll add more later this week.

[Lowell]

I dont' know about the gun. It doesn't say I do, but I can ask.

[Lowell]

1) I've been away, didn't think about it while others were claiming.

2) The word "vanilla" does not appear in my PM, no.

[Lowell]

I'm back, just so everyone knows.

Will look through everything again later, but for now I'd say that we're almost certainly dealing with an SK and at least one of the vanillas lying.

[Lowell]

To answer the question someone asked, I

do

have a gun.

This is what I see, briefly.

Adel

- She pushed hard for claiming and was in the forefront of the CR lynch. I'm not sure why she'd go to such lengths to bus a teammate. Especially if the CR slip is right and there's only two mafia. The much more likely scenario for her to be an SK, if she's scum at all. The biggest point against her is the very OMGUS 686. Not only is it lazy, but it makes no sense. What does HC suspecting her have to do with him being scum?

HC

- As the claims were starting, HC made some posts that made me think he's scum (post 429 in particular). He half-heartedly opposed the claiming, but not strong enough to be seen doing it. However, I like his most recent post (688), though I think it makes a much stronger case for goborage than for Adel.

goborage

- what HC points out is right, I think. Plus I really don't think there are as many vanilla in this game as he would have us believe.

EA

- this doesn't strike me as the same guy that came totally unglued when he was called out for a slip in another game (as scum). However, he's been out of the fray a lot, making me think that if Adel isn't the SK, he is.

reborn

- His vote for EA seems strange to me, though he could be right. The only problem with it is it looks like he was eager to start the day voting for one of the least active players, which reeks of opportunism and diversion.

vote goborage

. I like this vote better than HC, and much better than Adel.

[Lowell]

I know I have a gun because I asked the mod at several ppl's request.

Is the point you're trying to make that I didn't read the vanilla PM at the beginning of the game? Yeah, that happened. If this matters, the insect is not listed in the same PLACE in my PM. It is offset by commas on both sides.

[Lowell]

I'd like goborage to show up and tell us what he makes of the case against him. He's done a good job of doing nothing but hiding, and HC's case works for me.

vote goborage

. I'd like a little more push on him.

Three things about myself:
1) If I were fake-claiming, I don't see the advantage of me bringing up the insect at all. Especially given no other powerroles (or quasi-powerroles) seem to have it in their PMs.

2) I have a role that basically encourages BOTH scum factions to kill me, so it's probably the dumbest role to fake having.

3) reborn- the phrase in quotes is NOT how the word is used in my PM.

[Lowell]

Which is probably tonight.

[Lowell]

I don't even get the slip. Didn't two people die?

[Lowell]

I wanted to get things started early on, Lowell. I am fine with a goborage lynch - I feel like if we don't lynch one of the vanilla claims today it will be spitting in the face of yesterday's mass claim.

Your turn towards me is interesting.

[Lowell]

EBWOP: Nevermind 719, I see what you're saying. Slip is me assuming SK and mafia.

Regardless, I'm pretty certain this is what's happening. I don't know what incentive a vig would have to lie at this point.

[Lowell]

I don't even get the slip. Didn't two people die?

And you've made it pretty clear it's because there are two scum group, rather than there being a serial killer.

No you misunderstand. I think there

is

a serial killer. It's possible there's two groups, but I find that less likely.

[Lowell]

I also request extension

. Especially since I'll be gone this weekend, most likely without internet access. I still like the case against gobor more, absent or not.

[Lowell]

I don't agree with HC for denying an extension. If nothing else, the replacement's vote will be useful, even if gobor is scum. Generally, however, I find that people being replaced under pressure are usually scum and just don't want to go down with the ship, so I'm not inclined to give his replacement the benefit of the doubt.

Still, the votes on HC are odd. He's the only one requesting no extension. Who cares?

[Lowell]

Adel led the charge for the claims that ended up exposing CR. I can't imagine she's on CR's team.

[Lowell]

I do not at all think that gob is cleared. My vote stays on him. I'd vote for HC or EA as well if it came down to it, though I'm not seeing the HC case as much as some others are.

A possibility I've been thinking about is Adel as SK with a "safeclaim." I've never actually seen a safeclaim given by a mod in any games, but if there is an SK, it might be a good way to balance out the role and make it a little stronger, and might not be out of line with all the powerroles we've seen.

[Lowell]

^^^^ to continue above thought, this would explain why Adel was so gung-ho about mass claims. A lot of us were for it, I realize, but she seemed more than others to blow off the possible negative consequences.

[Lowell]

I still think Clockwork's slip that he's on a team of two was legit (I can't see why he would've faked it) which makes me believe goborage is clear.

That clears gobor if you believe Adel.

[Lowell]

I'll do this.

unvote, vote HC

. I highly doubt he's a serial killer, and I think the idea of two scumgroups is unlikely.

[Lowell]

Again I agree with reborn. HC's "you'll see, you'll see" posts don't impress me.

[Lowell]

Which is what makes all of this so suprising.

[Lowell]

vote adel

. This one is easy. Crabby didn't hammer, hence isn't scum.

Adel slipped like hell with that last result. First you say crabby didn't move, now you're certain he's scum and I'm SK. You're just making things up.

Also, how could you know we have a prisoner's dilemma? And crabby, why are you agreeing with that?

[Lowell]

1) Adel is definately scum of some kind based on her take on crabby last night.

2) IT DOESN'T MATTER if there's a prisoner's dilemma. If Adel dies today then town wins, regardless of crabby's alignment. Basically, there's no reason to take the chance that we're NOT in a prisoners dilemma situation if we don't have to.

[Lowell]

I am not mafia.

Adel, this makes up for Open 21.

[Lowell]

Nope.

[Lowell]

Thanks.

Yeah, a lot of things went right for me.

First, I can't believe I survived the gunsmith investigation. It pretty much forced my hand in my claim, but I thought the idea of a "duelist", basically a miller, might play, given the other roles out there. I tried to lay a cloud of smoke with the grammatical details of my made-up role. I'd like to think I succeeded in fooling everyone, but I probably just bored them to death.

I killed clammy the first time because I got slight mafia vibes from him, and because I thought he'd be an unlikely target by anyone else.

I killed guzame because I thought he was mafia. He said he was a vig that killed yos, but I knew since I killed clammy there had to be a mafia kill in there as well. In hindsight it was naive of me to think mafia would claim THEIR OWN KILL but call it vig, but for some reason that was my logic. That, and, of all the claims, his seemed the most unlikely.

The EA kill was easy. I was almost certain Adel was telling the truth about her role. Her idea for claiming is pretty much the only thing that got us CR in the first place, and I highly doubted she would bus her partner so unnecessarily. I believed reborn's claim as well, so that left me basically with EA as the only logical option.

What helped more was all the buzz Adel was getting as potential SK. It was just enough to throw EA off in his attempt to find me but made it all the easier to find him. I fully expected that as the last day dawned town would have already won. I was 95% sure EA had to be the scum, but, looking around, I figured there was a 50% chance he'd choose Adel and 50% chance he'd choose me.

The MOST beneficial thing, however, was Adel's semi-blundering of the last day (sorry, Adel, no offense). I felt throughout that there would be only 2 mafia to balance an SK in a game this small, but for some reason Adel sold the "Prisoner's Dilemma" scenario, which opened the door even more.

Good game all. This was my first time as SK. I must say I'm pretty proud of myself!

[Lowell]

Sorry, I should add, EA not killing me OR Adel was a huge bonus. I'm not sure I would have been able to talk myself out of a reborn/crabby/Lowell endgame.