Secret Hitler (Game Over)

[OkaPoka]

in

[OkaPoka]

korina i assume ur a secrethitler.io player?

[OkaPoka]

No objections either way

[OkaPoka]

if u nerds like meta play it would be 15 26

point of meta on first deck is to minimize number of touches of people on first deck to get info

but like

we are on mafiascum dot net

we can figure out who is evil using our words right folks

with that being said the thing about 15 26 is it allows libs to find a lib triangle (aka 3 libs that rule government forever for free wins)

ok any questions

[OkaPoka]

BRUH

[OkaPoka]

r u part of the fascist party

[OkaPoka]

honestly as our first government

i dont mind if you went with 15 fishy

[OkaPoka]

(that means u make nmsa ur chancellor)

[OkaPoka]

also want to remind everyone the goal of this game is to get liberal policies passed

the secondary goal is figuring out who is evil

but main goal is to pass lib policies

[OkaPoka]

@mod do scum get secret pt thread

Basically theory states that optimal play for first government is go play Seat 1 + Seat 5 government

There are a lot of reasons why this is optimal, the whole meta thing. I've played a fuck ton of secret hitler but basically since thats a text chat and people aren't vocal there its a statistics game there and turns out without meta this game is ridic scumsided so meta was created to find an optimal lib path and game devolves into a game of chance (which is no fun) but there are some important lessons.

One of the big reasons why 1+5 is good is because if you find a blue government, then we can safely mark you both as liberal until a fascist policy is passed or the deck has some errors. We want to make sure a minimal amount of people touch the deck so if the numbers don't add up (for example people claim that they've only seen RRR when the deck reshuffles but there was supposed to be 6 blues!) then we have a narrower pool to PoE the liars.

But as for 15 itself, if thats a lib government, then we just need to find one more person to form a triangle in 2/3/4 to avoid a top deck (when government fails a certain amount of times).

This is really advantageous because having a triangle allows to minimize deck touches and often forces a person to conflict ( when President and Chancellor claim different things) and then if its a winning triangle then it allows for basically freelo.

Then you just block all governments outside the triangle. Lets say three was the third triangle. Then you run 13 35 51 over and over until something bad happens and you can do it because of how these govs were spaced out to avoid a top deck. If we ran 12 and found a winning triangle in lets say 123, then we are forced to run 12 23 31 and then we are fucked because if we go back to 1 being president we need to topdeck and thats usually bad.

[OkaPoka]

im going to go more indepth

if 15 succeeds in getting a lib policy the next set is usually 26
if 26 succeeds then you have two lib pairing governments for the moment

you veto until seat 5 is president and seat 5 nominates 1 again, then seat 6 nominates 2 and you run these two governments back and forth until someone fails

altermatively if 26 fails then you go to 51 again and then after that you play 73 or 74 (you don't want to play either 2 or 6 here because they could have double dropped lib cards so you lock them out, and you need to find a winning triangle)

now for more interesting scenarios

if 15 fails and 26 fails then it becomes interesting because 2 has an investigate and usually you should investigate your own chancellor and then theory breaks down a bit on optimal choices of whether 37 or 47 or 6 should play but hopefully we dont reach that

but like meta is more of a guide

and since we are on a mafia site

we can use this as a guideline rather than a strict playbook (this is probably my least favorite part of secret hitler site, they only play meta and even if you scumread people and it can get throwy)


pedit: yes that would be the goal of finding a lib triangle, you leash it down so you have a good poe pool to find who is to blame if things fuck up

[OkaPoka]

well you gotta make sure your government passes lib policies if you want that power

[OkaPoka]

also if you do get two blues and a red

usually its optimal to force them to play blue

just putting it out there

[OkaPoka]

Yea, but like, 7p is the most fun game to play. 8p and above is too many people and extremely unbalanced. 6p and below is too few people and extremely un-fun.
That also means that shots have to be made more carefully. And also, fascists aren't guarenteed to win if it comes down to a 3v3. They have to topdeck from that point on and hope they can win on policies, or hope they can get the gun again, which liberals won't allow to happen.

To illustrate the point about 8p+ being broken:
The 9-10p board has two investigates back-to-back. Let's say two people conflict, and the president checks someone else and they claim fascist.
Let's say the next person conflicts as well, and they get investigation. They check the previous president. They see liberal.

They now know who three of the four fascists are, and one liberal, meaning they know the alignment of half the people on the board. This is only made worse if the second investigator is hitler, since they automatically know who all their fascists are, and that everyone else is a liberal.

oh my god korina

you don't know how fucking long i argued this on .io

i was arguing that it was optimal to have second investigate be on first investigator because that reveals so much about the game, but they kept saying inv chancellor

asdfad

[OkaPoka]

discarding the red

splitting the deck is usually risky because of how the deck works, we aren't guaranteed to have full scope of the deck and more people might lie so if you and your chancellor disagree and enter a conflict, you lock both of yourselves up and lose two blues from the deck

[OkaPoka]

theoretically itd be nice for you

but everyone else would be worse off

[OkaPoka]

am so down to play on .io with other ms.net players

[OkaPoka]

OOPS WRONG ACCOUNT

[OkaPoka]

Fish you feeling trustworthy?

[OkaPoka]

NVM abort idea

Let's go to next phase

[OkaPoka]

You did right fish

Not outting is an advanced strat that isn't necessary and probably confusinf

[OkaPoka]

I'm just gonna trust the people who know how the game works. I got LL.

I was given RBB and I discarded red and passed two blues.

You got RBB which means now there are 5 fascist and 9 liberal policies left in the deck.

i think you got that mixed

[OkaPoka]

we can follow this for the first deck

[OkaPoka]

Claim first. Nein until 51

Me touching the deck isn't helpful

[OkaPoka]

can confirm

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: nein to 5

[OkaPoka]

i really need to stop alt slipping

nominate formerfish

[OkaPoka]

pick formerfish please

[OkaPoka]

3b 5r "left?"

this is where the game gets spicy

[OkaPoka]

Next power is investigate loyalty so I just want to make sure of something

@mod do we get discussion during the president's phase of investigating loyalty?
or generally speaking do we get to talk before someone finalizes power selection

[OkaPoka]

The lines get blurry on a "conflict" (a conflict is when chancellor and president disagree on the claims of what cards they have), but who to investigate becomes similar to mafia where we need to agree on someone.

[OkaPoka]

Personally I like to investigate someone I feel is very lib to remove my doubts on them being hitler but thats just me.

Oh yeah and btw "conflicts" can refer to an investigation conflict where someone claims to have investigated a fascist.

[OkaPoka]

oh yeah this train of thought only occurs during a conflict

if its RRR investigating chancellor is optimal so we can CUCU

[OkaPoka]

And uh on cucu

it means that we have the investigated lib choose the investigator

And basically the investigator cannot "conflict" with the investigated lib so it can force some blues

unless its double fasc which would be a meme

[OkaPoka]

aight im okay with dweller picking egix

also

dweller it is not worth to drop liberal policies to give yourself an investigation

passing liberal policies is always the goal

[OkaPoka]

I mean it'd be good if we could help inform him on the decision but what makes secret hitler a lot spookier is from a libs point of view literally half of the "opinions" are fascist opinions

As long as he can reason it out is the goal

Because if he does something random/yolos it, its going to be under the scrutiny of a microscope because this power is a very effective fascist tool as well as a very effective tool for hitler

[OkaPoka]

A true fascist

[OkaPoka]

HMMM IS THERE REALLY 3 BLUES AND TWO REDS ?

[OkaPoka]

dweller u gotta check egix

[OkaPoka]

man is datisi hitler and u fascist mena?

[OkaPoka]

hi there !

[OkaPoka]

Dweller who are you suspicious of?

[OkaPoka]

I want to see the investigation first. I think there is a slightly better plan than 15 if 2 comes up lib.

[OkaPoka]

Dweller who are you suspicious of?

[OkaPoka]

I want to see who dweller is sus of

[OkaPoka]

im hurt datisi

[OkaPoka]

Dweller who are you suspicious of?

I mean the only other people who played F. because it is the only option where I can get any info. but inv my own chanc also seems a valid choice. because it also help us getting info

So you are suspicious of Datisi?

Here's the thing though, the next person who draws three cards should confirm to you if Datisi is good or not based on odds (like if they draw 1 blue and 2 reds, the chances of there being 2 blues at the bottom of the deck is really low)

So you could gain that info on them with mechanics, meanwhile gaining info on Egix would be pretty good for all of us. We get the option to CUCU if you see lib, or we get a conflict between you two which is also nice because egix was a one Blue president raising the odds of him being hitler rather than fascist.

[OkaPoka]

before the deck gets shuffled we need to minimize the number of different people who've touched the deck so its easier to PoE the discrepancies in card claiming

[OkaPoka]

RN its to space it in a way to hopefully find a lib triangle that we can play without destroying the government but since we have had two fasc governments in a row in 51 62 a lib triangle will probably include players form 3/4/7

but since we are still on first deck we want to keep the deck in the hands of 1/2/5/6 to catch card discrepancies

[OkaPoka]

alright

I want to spitball an idea

12 26

[OkaPoka]

actually 15 probs better

no need to powerplay someone yet

we need discusison tho

[OkaPoka]

7 no touch deck and therefore questionable but if you want to bring a non toucher you want to bring him in as a chancellor

[OkaPoka]

someone do the math

what if we topdeck twice and then draw the cards

[OkaPoka]

imagine if we had all truthful people and we got 3 blues rn the glory

also i think we go 15

[OkaPoka]

i kinda dont super trust datisi here and i think most people are in that boat

so maybe 12?

[OkaPoka]

we get two reds in a row odds are both datisi and dweller r fascist boys if we want to hard gambit

but i guess we dont need desperation play

question rn should be

fish egix or fish datisi

[OkaPoka]

Datisi u do realize that if most people don't trust you

A fascist formerfish can force a conflict on you and come out on top? This is probs the best method that keeps you semi clear for now as we need to resolve dweller/you

[OkaPoka]

well ur being shaded rn so i mentioned it now

[OkaPoka]

oh thats just me talking and train of thoughting

[OkaPoka]

fish you thinking about noming dat or egix

[OkaPoka]

oh wait im a dumbass ok

[OkaPoka]

did mena nom someone

[OkaPoka]

did mena nom someone

Menalque

has nominated

Datisi

as Chancellor.

The next game action is for the players to vote JA or NEIN on this government. Please submit your votes via PM to me, but remember when all votes are submitted your vote will be publicly revealed.

The deadline for the next legislative session is (expired on 2019-11-09 17:30:00).

NEIN

[OkaPoka]

im actually being such a klutz rn i thought i clicked pm adsfsadf

[OkaPoka]

I think it's time to go cucu

[OkaPoka]

if it flips red I think Formerfish gets presidency

but meta is now like flimsy and most people on .io say x is meta to get themselves into government but like you'll see arguments about what is meta after this gov because its not set in stone

[OkaPoka]

The reason why Fish gets presidency imo

is because he was a blue president twice and forced both times which is a v lib play

so odds are he is either hitler or lib and hitler president tho bad is not the worst

[OkaPoka]

yes

[OkaPoka]

we are in hz if this reds

[OkaPoka]

BRUH

[OkaPoka]

THONKING HARDER

[OkaPoka]

Fish, who would you pick as chancellor

[OkaPoka]

I prefer wait

[OkaPoka]

Remember, we are in Hitler zone though

[OkaPoka]

It's very atypical to find full fascist lines when we have no conflicts

Either we got deck fucked or we have droppers

Dweller cleared egix

[OkaPoka]

I feel like dweller wanted to avoid clearing egix which makes me think that dweller is a normal fascist, not hitler

[OkaPoka]

I think egix might be Hitler lul

And got an actual RRR

[OkaPoka]

Man we really got deck fucked with two BBRs

[OkaPoka]

Most important right now is not picking hitler

[OkaPoka]

Mizzy we chill

[OkaPoka]

If you pass a red, dats gets a gun

[OkaPoka]

More importantly there was 1b1r left in the deck which is unlikely but not impossible

[OkaPoka]

I want fish to have the gun

[OkaPoka]

Make me chancellor tbh

[OkaPoka]

You think I'm Hitler?

[OkaPoka]

Everyone is a gamble. You want to pick someone who is least likely to be Hitler as chancellor

[OkaPoka]

Point is if fascist have gun they can force a 3v3 and win most of the time

[OkaPoka]

Why is dats lib?

[OkaPoka]

Me as Hitler would probably make stuff up on meta to get an election on me

[OkaPoka]

Dats got forced on both and passed reds to fish

[OkaPoka]

And didn't dats support the meme election on the first attempt?

[OkaPoka]

If prefer fish dats to dats fish if those were the options

[OkaPoka]

Mena is fascist not hitler

[OkaPoka]

Cuz ur being unlikeable but you seem like you want to stop fish from having gun when fish is towny

[OkaPoka]

Why are we quantifying what we've done like this is mafia

[OkaPoka]

Why do you give a shit what fish calls you if you aren't going to be played or be shot

[OkaPoka]

Meta is less gives libs good wr and more makes it so libs don't lose 9/10 games fwiw

I think libs have a 50 wr with meta

[OkaPoka]

Mena whats ur dream gov wo yourself

[OkaPoka]

Mena how would you play your situation as fascist

[OkaPoka]

U should sit down and think about it

[OkaPoka]

i am not okay with president dats

[OkaPoka]

tbh u should just trust me to be chancellor

[OkaPoka]

i think only president im ok with is u fish

[OkaPoka]

chance slot is important but the thing is for me you are lib or hitler and i dont feel confident enough to risk it on you being lib over hitler

[OkaPoka]

Why are you confident on Datisi being lib?

[OkaPoka]

dats you do realize we can never allow fish to chancellor and still win right? requires topdecking but

[OkaPoka]

im saying that fish is playing very lib which makes him lib or hitler so yes we shouldnt let him chancellor and instead have him have the bullet

you have an unknown with the bullet and they make the shot then the play becomes nein everything and top deck

[OkaPoka]

its pretty clear i want fish as president

[OkaPoka]

im still thinking about who to chance because im not going to be passed

[OkaPoka]

Why are you more opposed to chancellorizing me than VV?

[OkaPoka]

Actually better question:

What criteria are you using to find optimal chancellor

[OkaPoka]

What about odds of being hitler? Ignore chances of being fasc.

[OkaPoka]

Okay consider this.

Assume you have a lib president in hitler zone.

Lib + Lib government with blue pass = blue pass, lib + lib gov with red gov (no conflicts) means shoot outside.

Lib + Fasc government with blue pass = blue pass, lib + fasc gov with red gov (no conflicts) shoots outside, lib + fasc government (conflict) means you have an outted fascist for a free shot for lib

Lib + Hitler government = game over.

Effectively with a Lib president, LibLib and LibFasc are equivalent governments at start of HZ.

[OkaPoka]

Egix be a lad and pass it to fish

[OkaPoka]

It's weird

I feel like fish is 80 percent chance lib and 20 percent chance Hitler

[OkaPoka]

So make him presi

[OkaPoka]

Oka that doesn't make sense

Isn't FF most likely to pick me?
If you think he's 80% lib wouldn't it make more sense to make him chance

having a lib or hitler president is >>>> fascist president

He's greater than rand hitler and I don't want to lose like 20% of the games because he rolled hitler and forced two blues

[OkaPoka]

yes


but i think ur more likely to be fascist than fish

[OkaPoka]

btw libs

if president makes a kill before consulting all of us

it means he's fascist and you vote nein on every gov and go for rng

[OkaPoka]

let's not instantly shoot please

[OkaPoka]

if we get a red on this next phase then it means we would have drawn 6reds in a row which is

or we have confs

or we have droppers

which in all cases

we need to talk odds

[OkaPoka]

anyways egix if you think dats is a better president you need to explain why

[OkaPoka]

u do realize that you could've just submitted nein but joked about saying yes without following through?

what if we all memed and ja'd

[OkaPoka]

i trust that fish isnt fascist here (maybe hitler) so I want him paired with least likely hitler odds

[OkaPoka]

And I'm pretty sure the only gov that has the votes is some iteration of fish + datisi

anything else won't have the votes

[OkaPoka]

Just a heads up fish, don't shoot dweller if you draw RRR immediately

[OkaPoka]

<3

[OkaPoka]

Dat, you hitty?

[OkaPoka]

r u himmler?

[OkaPoka]

mena why werent u going ham earlier on datisi

[OkaPoka]

mena why werent u going ham earlier on datisi

Hmmm? Wdym?

You had plenty of time to bring up concern but you are doing it now at a very inconvenient time

[OkaPoka]

honestly if ur that scared u could go vote no

[OkaPoka]

dweller + mena + egix/vex

[OkaPoka]

im either right or very wrong

[OkaPoka]

I vote ja but you can vote whatever you want dweller

[OkaPoka]

U still don't trust me

[OkaPoka]

No worries, we can td until we run fish-dats

[OkaPoka]

Egix can't be Hitler?

[OkaPoka]

You can if you td

[OkaPoka]

Vex Mena dweller are scumteam whee

Td still optimal, if you trust in lib lib they have Veto

[OkaPoka]

If we double td

[OkaPoka]

It's not but I think to get to fish dats it's one td and then we reshuffle

[OkaPoka]

One td, they play, shuffle

They get a shot

Then we are in veto zone on a new deck

[OkaPoka]

If we td we get one hand with old deck

[OkaPoka]

Yeet

You could always trust me too

[OkaPoka]

Actually just td until fish dats again

[OkaPoka]

nein to formerfish

[OkaPoka]

I mean you guys have basically been following my plan this entire game idk why you are still paranoid of me

[OkaPoka]

mom egix

[OkaPoka]

is the plan

[OkaPoka]

dont feel bad owo

describe the uk for us americans

[OkaPoka]

GG

Thanks for modding!