Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Pink Ball]

@Pink I see what you mean, but aren't we sort of just in the eliminate all the scummy players part of the game? I don't think it's necessary to prolong it. A kill decided by town is definitely better than a kill decided by scum because scum isn't going to kill scummy players only towny players.

But scum having to decide who is less scummy or a bigger threat gives us more info. We would be making their job easier. Maybe I'm getting too paranoid and you're right about not prolonging it, but for me more info is always better

[Pink Ball]

barded

What does this mean?

If I bard someone, they can perform two actions the next night. Was part of the plan to bard Raya so he could accelerate TSE and gift XP to Ame so Raven could voyeur one of them

Right, that was the plan, so this looks really bad for TSE because Raya has been pretty good about her gifting and I have a great deal of difficulty believing she didn’t stick to the plan’

Whomever killed Raya was trying to frame Ali. I just can’t see scum!Ali killing Raya. Why do you kill your easy lhf potential mislynch? It absolutely makes no sense.

You have yet to explain how is someone trying to frame Ali if scum!Ali wouldn't kill Raya. Makes no sense

[Pink Ball]

I don't remember the claim order, but I'm fine with lynching one of the players who claimed VT. That's what making more sense to me as a fakeclaim

[Pink Ball]

Raven, could you answer what I'm asking you? How is scum trying to frame Ali if scum!Ali would never make that kill??

[Pink Ball]

I was sure it had to be ABR but he claimed 5 XP, so scum shouldn’t have so much XP.

What if scum have a way to gain extra EXP?

This is an interesting idea. Maybe scum can gift their XP to one of their partners? In that case, we could have a buffed up remaining scum who doesn't have to train to make kills, and the lack of kills during N2 was because of Creature's role

[Pink Ball]

No Raven, you're saying "I don't think scum!Ali would ever kill Raya", and then say "scum is framing Ali". Why, if in your own logic scum!Ali would not make a kill like that, makes YOU think it's a frame?

[Pink Ball]

In oder words: if a kill would make sense coming from scum!Ali but Ali is town, then scum could make that kill to make it look like scum!Ali made it, thus, a frame. But if a kill WOULDN'T make sense coming from scum!Ali, then it's not a frame

[Pink Ball]

Like, you're coming to the opposite conclusion based on the information you're giving lol I don't think scum!Ali would kill Raya, so it doesn't look like a frame to me

p-edit how is the Ali wagon based on Raya being NK'd??? They were all naked votes! And one of them from TSE who is clearly following what Ame is doing!

I already said why I think Raya was nightkilled: he would become conftown if someone else died because Raya's actions would be confirmed by Ame, TSE and you, so he couldn't be the one making a nightkill

[Pink Ball]

In oder words: if a kill would make sense coming from scum!Ali but Ali is town, then scum could make that kill to make it look like scum!Ali made it, thus, a frame. But if a kill WOULDN'T make sense coming from scum!Ali, then it's not a frame

You’re assuming the last scum thought this through to that extent. Why is there a wagon on Ali if my theory is so farfetched?

Raven I'm asking you, I'm not saying anything about what the remaining scum is thinking. And I'm not saying your theory is farfetched, I'm saying it doesn't make sense

[Pink Ball]

HOW

[Pink Ball]

I'm trying to understand here, if I'm not being clear enough. I don't understand your theory. I want to understand it

[Pink Ball]

I don't think Ali is scum and I don't think that Raya's nightkill makes em look bad. That's my point

p-edit and what does Ali being the sole vote on Raya have anything to do with a frame theory?? And no, they were naked votes, you're assuming the wagon was formed because of the nightkill

[Pink Ball]

you're assuming the wagon was formed because of the nightkill

[Pink Ball]

OOOOOOOOOH ok ok ok now I get your logic, fuck me I really didn't understand where you were coming from with that theory

[Pink Ball]

Wow it wasn't so hard lol you mean like Ali was pushing Raya as scum but it turned out that Raya was town so Ali look bad because e was pushing town?

[Pink Ball]

There are only three players voting Ali and one of them is TSE who you have been really vocal on your scumread on him so I know what you're trying to do

[Pink Ball]

Yeah, you're probably right

[Pink Ball]

I'm fine with being the lynch today 'cause I can't vengekill anyone so scum will be forced to take decisions. I actually think it's the right path if I'm eventually be a mislynch to make it today rather than later.

I still have one bard shot and I can use it now, I don't know if it would go through but it should. Who should I bard?

[Pink Ball]

The bummer is that I think I'm very obviously town by mechanics and play, but both ABR and Ame are town and chill, so they should win this

[Pink Ball]

The bummer is that I think I'm very obviously town by mechanics and play, but both ABR and Ame are town and chill, so they should win this

Why do you think you were town? Can you explain all your townreads?

First of, because of how Farkset died. Ame hasn't fully claimed so we don't really know how they died. We know it was because of Ame, but not how. Scum can't really know that either, so I think they're paranoid about him and that's why they haven't killed him, 'cause there's a chance Farkset targeted Ame on N1 and they think that Ame treestumps scum as a passive.

I barded Ame right after Farkset died 'cause I didn't think of this until later; Ame never told not to bard him so that's why I'm assuming that Ame is not a PGO (in this case treestumping instead of killing). My point is, I lack the information that scum could have, 'cause if I had it, I would've not barded Ame right away because of paranoia.

I also happened to get Knight lynched. It doesn't matter if he was obvscum or not (I don't think that's true), but I was the main factor into derailing Alisae's lynch and making Knight the lynch during that day. I'm more of the philosophy of having as much scum members alive to win together rather than bussing unless completely necessary as scum, and in this case I don't think it was really needed. I could've just shut up and follow louder voices.

I followed last day's plan by barding Raya, which I think is what got him killed and that's good for having a better PoE. If I were scum, I would've killed Raya but not barded him, why would I use one of my shots on him when I can restrain it for a better purpose? Also, I did two night actions last night: bard Raya (confirmed) and train, leaving me with 1 XP. If you want to, I can bard today and leave me without XP; if there's a nightkill, then I become conftown.

Basically, my play is pretty much solid town, and the paranoia towards my slot is rather unreasonable. From Ame I get it, 'cause he could feel pocketed and because of a wrong PoE, but from you it feels like you went for the "you guys suck, I know who the remaining scum is... and you won't believe who they are, but I'm so good I caught them!!" road and it matches with your personality. What I mean is, you want me to be scum to be the only one who realized this, instead of going for the obvious path that is me being town.

[Pink Ball]

I'm fine with being the lynch today 'cause I can't vengekill anyone so scum will be forced to take decisions. I actually think it's the right path if I'm eventually be a mislynch to make it today rather than later.

I still have one bard shot and I can use it now, I don't know if it would go through but it should. Who should I bard?

The bummer is that I think I'm very obviously town by mechanics and play, but both ABR and Ame are town and chill, so they should win this

Aren’t you usually more upset about being mislynched? Why are you so chill about this?

'Cause I haven't given enough attention to this game so I'm not as invested as in other games, and because we're 7v1 right now and my lynch secures that it stays 5v1 next day instead of 4v1.

PB has given up its 7v1. Not worth fighting hard every day for weeks and weeks only to lose in the end.

You clearly don't know me. I would be invested as fuck on winning this if I were the remaining scum. I love being scum and when the game's hard, even better

[Pink Ball]

That's convincing, but what does barding do?

Whats your upgraded abilities?

Barding is giving my target the chance to perform twice during the next night: they can use their ability and train at the same time, for example. The upgrade gives me the chance to perform twice when I bard someone too. Takes me 1XP to bard, so I've trained twice when barded Ame and Raya, I think that's what how my role was supposed to be played. And of course, try not to bard scum 'cause I give them the chance to perform a kill and train at the same time.

[Pink Ball]

Raven, does PB deserve all the credit for knightmares lynch?

Well I didn't want to say it back on D1 because I wasn't willing to make a 1v1 against mastina but...

@Pine, i think you are the authority here when talking about mastina, is that AI for her?

Actually.
The authority for reading me this game would probably be Pink Ball.

mastina said this because she knows I know what scum!mastina does different from town!mastina, and I was giving her time to start doing what town!mastina does, but she never did and she left the game before she could do it, so yes, it's very likely we're dealing with a scum!mastina slot. I haven't read anything coming from Knight, but I'm willing to get rid of that slot rather than Raya.

Before I said this, Raya was the main wagon of that day, and Raven immediately voted after I said that, making Knight the next viable wagon, tying both wagons.

[Pink Ball]

That's convincing, but what does barding do?

Whats your upgraded abilities?

Barding is giving my target the chance to perform twice during the next night: they can use their ability and train at the same time, for example. The upgrade gives me the chance to perform twice when I bard someone too. Takes me 1XP to bard, so I've trained twice when barded Ame and Raya, I think that's what how my role was supposed to be played. And of course, try not to bard scum 'cause I give them the chance to perform a kill and train at the same time.

Which nights did you bard/train?

Night 2 and 3, I upgraded during D2.

and why did you do it?

Because Ame was conftown and I thought he would treestump twice during the next night. You can see my disappointment at the start of the next day when everyone was alive. And Raya because it was part of the plan, and that plan would make Raya conftown if he remained alive. Problem is that we lynched our protective role.

[Pink Ball]

Raven, does PB deserve all the credit for knightmares lynch?

Well I didn't want to say it back on D1 because I wasn't willing to make a 1v1 against mastina but...

@Pine, i think you are the authority here when talking about mastina, is that AI for her?

Actually.
The authority for reading me this game would probably be Pink Ball.

mastina said this because she knows I know what scum!mastina does different from town!mastina, and I was giving her time to start doing what town!mastina does, but she never did and she left the game before she could do it, so yes, it's very likely we're dealing with a scum!mastina slot. I haven't read anything coming from Knight, but I'm willing to get rid of that slot rather than Raya.

Before I said this, Raya was the main wagon of that day, and Raven immediately voted after I said that, making Knight the next viable wagon, tying both wagons.

What were you waiting on mastina to do?

Either scumhunting or overly reacting at someone scumreading her. Two easy and recognizable traits from town!mastina. But she never started scumhunting, she just was here, talking about anything else rather than her own reads. Never got the chance to react to her wagon 'cause she already repped out at that point, but the other missing town traits was good enough.

[Pink Ball]

Night 2 and 3, I upgraded during D2.

Can you list your actions per night?

Night 1, trained. Started D2 with 3 XP (I started with 1, 1 from training and 1 from FoC's death). I upgraded immediately and barded Ame, leaving me with 0 XP (upgrade took 2, barding took 1), but since I upgraded I could train during the night too. So started D3 with 1 XP, barded Raya, 0 XP, trained, 1 XP. And here I am once again asking for your financial support.

[Pink Ball]

i dont think ames ability is reactive. Maybe you are scum and wanted Ame to vig town twice? Its certainly possible. Did you start with 1 xp? Why didnt you use it n1?

Yeah of course it's possible. I haven't said I'm town for barding Ame from that perspective, I think it's NAI. Unless Ame's reads at that point of the game were so wrong that I felt confident enough to think he would vig wrongly twice. I don't remember how his reads looked at that point of the game. I know he vigged right once, 1 out of 1 at that point.

I didn't bard during N1 because I had no strong townreads and barding scum, as I said earlier, would've been really bad 'cause I could give them the chance to use their roles and shoot at the same time, or train and shoot.

what kind of shit scum doesnt at least pretend to scumhunt? This sounds so contrived.

The kind of player who has a good enough reputation as scum that they don't need to effort too much at the begining of the game. Like Flavor Leaf. There's paranoia, sure, but paranoia tends to help scum rather than lynch them.

[Pink Ball]

mastina dayvigged me in the very first post of a game as scum because she knows I'm good at reading her. She got out of that situation because of paranoia.

[Pink Ball]

Raya would give XP to both Ame and TSE. Raven would voyeur any pf those two, since she get XP if she voyeurs someone who is targeted.

[Pink Ball]

Raya gave him the XP

[Pink Ball]

Creature (3): Ame, ABR, Raya
ABR (3): TSE, Titus, NK15
Raya (1): Alisae
NK15 (1): PB

Not voting (2): Creature, Raven

Takes 6 to lynch. 1 hours and 45 minutes

VOTE: ABR

I'll change to creature if needed but I'd rather do this

I didn't agree with Creature's lynch. We had less than 2 hours and it was the only viable lynch at that point because we didn't have enough people to vote ABR at that moment

[Pink Ball]

I agreed that it was Creature's scum meta which is doing nothing, but he probably siteflaked and fucked that meta

[Pink Ball]

I obviously can't publicly answer about you specifically. But upgrades may be made during the day, provided you have enough XP; you'll learn your upgraded role at the end of the phase.

[Pink Ball]

I think that means that the upgrade could resolve before the lynch even if they don't get to know what the upgrade is

[Pink Ball]

Creature wasn't obvtown. Raven you're calling out someone because you were right about a townread at the same time you're having second thoughts on someone who treestumped scum.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't be paranoid about everything, that's part of the game. But that's the point: it's part of the game. You can't act like someone being wrong when you're right is so fucking atrocious when being paranoid is part of the game.

Ame is being really respectful with how he's playing and he's really trying, so how about working together instead of blaming him for a mislynch?

[Pink Ball]

Creature wasn't obvtown. Raven you're calling out someone because you were right about a townread at the same time you're having second thoughts on someone who treestumped scum.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't be paranoid about everything, that's part of the game. But that's the point: it's part of the game. You can't act like someone being wrong when you're right is so fucking atrocious when being paranoid is part of the game.

Ame is being really respectful with how he's playing and he's really trying, so how about working together instead of blaming him for a mislynch?

We obviously aren’t going to see eye to eye on this. I unvoted ABR and Ame drove a mislynch on a read I considered obvtown. And when I checked the thread it was too late. The mod would have given us an extension but not cancel the flip. I respect your viewpoint but I also have mine and I have a right to view it differently. You’re of course free to condemn for having a different pov than you but that doesn’t change my mind on that. Re: Ame. I honestly thought he was confitown. I had no idea that scum could actually kill a buddy but Occams razor still points to Ame being town, so your analogy fails to take that into account.

Having doubt/= driving a mislynch. I didn’t even vote for Ame. I was legit in shock that he wasn’t actually confitown like I had previously thought. I’m of course willing to work together with my trs and Ame is still one. What I’m waiting for is proof of NK15 cancelling his upgrade and proving that he actually has 4 XP, which he should if he’s telling the truth about his claim.

What I will do however is apologize for and redact is my blacklist threat. That was a way overreaction but I was seriously pissed enough to consider replacing out once I saw the flip but then I thought better of it.

And PB, you’re definitely wrong about Creature not being obvtown. 1) Farkset/Mastina dissociatives. 2) LC was super townie. 3) Creature’s role claim. 4) Creature’s posting - especially the post where he said he refused to lynch Ali, me or Raya. You can even add Titus’ VCA into that. Like seriously, how many reasons do you need?

My analogy is towards the point "don't get pissed because someone is wrong when you're right. Get pissed when someone is being an asshole". Ame hasn't been an asshole. Nothing else, nothing more.

And I don't agree with Creature being obvtown, that's an opinion, I can't be wrong. Again, not because you were right on his alignment means Creature was absolutely obvtown and everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong. Ex ante and ex post. Yes, now that we know he flipped town, we can say "hm yeah that was pretty stupid, he was very townie because of all of this reasons", but when you don't KNOW his alignment, you get paranoid and think "no that's NAI" or "that looked suspicious". You're leaving out the context of the situation.

The only obvtown in this game, from my perspective, is you. Creature had some iffy posts, LC had some iffy posts, and Creature not being present matched with his scum meta. You on the other hand, are so fucking obvtown it hurts!

[Pink Ball]

For what is worth, I don't think you've crossed any lines.

Let's move on!

While diverting crazy theories is part of this game, at this point the remaining scum has to cling to whatever they can make up to get the required amount of mislynches they need to win. Even if Ali was the one who brought up the possibility of Ame being the remaining scum, I think NK15 going for it is a desperate call of "I'll do whatever it takes".

I don't know about NK15's reluctancy about cancelling the upgrade, like where does that come from... But NK15 was my main concern yesterday and that hasn't changed.

I'm right here now:
{Ame, Raven}
{Titus, Ali}
{TSE, ABR}
{NK15}

I'm fine with lynching any of the bottom three, but mechanically speaking, I'd rather go for NK15 so he doesn't get to vengekill if the game continues.

[Pink Ball]

I'm not understanding this plan. What if scum is telling the truth about their remaining XP?

[Pink Ball]

I'm not understanding this plan. What if scum is telling the truth about their remaining XP?

The mafia nightkill costs 1 xp. Night 3 kill was done by the remaining scum.
Plus, even if they didnt lie because they got xp from another source - we are doing this mainly to NOT vengekill someone today because that messes up the numbers and costs us a lynch later on, AND a vengekill.

The second part I agree and I'm into it. The first part is what didn't add up 'cause they could tell the truth about their XP and lie about their role. Or lie about "I didn't train last night", or well many possibilities

[Pink Ball]

Titus you shouldn't bodyguard. You should be bodyguarded, Ame too. That way we force the remaining scum to kill outside conftown or near conftown

[Pink Ball]

Could y'all claim your XP right now?

[Pink Ball]

1 XP, I barded Ame and trained last night

[Pink Ball]

Could y'all claim your XP right now?

0. I decided to watch Titus and no one targeted her, I was debating between Ame and Titus but since despite PB’s arguments to the contrary, I still think Ali was likely framed for Raya kill, so I thought scum might target Titus and possibly frame another slot. Obviously, since Ame was the target, I assume due to her tracking ability. Scum apparently doesn’t have a roleblock which is good.

I don't have arguments to the contrary, I said I didn't understand why did you think it was a frame, and then I understood and I agreed with you lol

[Pink Ball]

Could y'all claim your XP right now?

0 I upgraded.

And you didn't train?

[Pink Ball]

Yes, and since I upgraded, when I bard someone, I bard myself too...

[Pink Ball]

Role Name: Town Bard
Abilities and Cost: twice during the game I may target a player and at the begining of the next night, that player may use an aditional action. Costs 1 XP to do that. My upgraded role is that I get one more shot, and I get barded myself
Actions during each phase: Trained first night, barded Ame and trained second night
Anything else relevant: No.

XP
Starting XP (from your role PM): 1 (note it doesn't give my starting XP in my role PM, they just told me I had 1 in the day 1 start PM)
XP at the end of D1: 1
XP at the end of Quest 1: 1
XP at the end of N1: 2
XP at the end of D2: 1
XP at the end of N2: 1
Current XP: 1

XP needed to upgrade: 2
Have you upgraded (yes/no): Yes
If yes, during which phase: Night 2

Summary: started with 1 XP, got one more from training N1, got one more from FoC's dying, I upgraded during D2 so back to 1 XP, barded Ame which leaves me with 0 XP, but since I got barded myself I could train and I got 1 XP and that's where I am now so I can bard again tonight and train again and so and so until I'm out of shots. Game will probably end before my shots so I think I played the role as was intended.

[Pink Ball]

I get how Raven could get things mixed up, but that vote looks bad on you, Titus

[Pink Ball]

Raven, they were naked votes. They had no explanation written. A naked vote is when someone posts a vote withount any explanation in that post. And I didn't discredit your theory, I was trying to understand your logic. And I did.

[Pink Ball]

Ugh... Are you serious

[Pink Ball]

VOTE: Pink Ball

Get me out of this game

[Pink Ball]

One more vote, do it please

[Pink Ball]

Or it'll get nasty

[Pink Ball]

Nah dude Raven caught me, fair an square! She caught all the inconsistencies in my play!

[Pink Ball]

Ugh... Are you serious

If not you, PB, who is the last scum? Ali claimed to intend to upgrade on N2 iirc and on D3, eagerly and quite aggressively pushed for the Quest mechanic, so eir lack of XP N3 would be presumably accounted for and like I said, unless you argue that Ame is somehow lying about being targeted - unlikely -, you barding her doesn’t get you town points. If Ame had not been targeted, then yes you’d probably be clear.

ABR and TSE were at home. The night before, it was Titus, he cleared. I know I’m town and my validated XP claim confirms it, so I don’t see how it isn’t you.

And, your claim that your role makes you exempt from the no train + additional action, cannot be substantiated by the mod.

So, why couldn’t scum!you claim train on the night that Ame was targeted? But yeah, I thought your discredit of my theory was really weird, because how in what world would leashed Raya have remotely be confitown with a no kill? You counter argument made no sense logically and and you seemed to be so certain that my Ali frame theory had to be wrong, eventhough when I opened the thread, there were already votes on Ali.

How many times do I have to say that I didn't discredit your theory for you to actually read what I'm saying?????

The stayed at home could be because scum didn't kill last night and hoped to get a false clear as far as I know. Beats me.

Just lynch me already, I don't want to play with Raven anymore

p-edit: please lynch me dude, Ame, get me lynched. We have enough clears to win this without me.

[Pink Ball]

No fucking role can be substantiated by the mod for fucks sake I wouldn't have enough XP to Bard 3 nights in a row if I weren't training myself and it's confirmed I barded three nights in a row

[Pink Ball]

Being home last night is only an alibi if Ali was targeted. Y'all are going to assume that's true. I think that's an assumption that Ame is making because no one died.

Ali = Ame

This is why I'm asking for everyone's XP, 'cause the players who upgraded could have not enough XP to perform a kill and had to train last night

[Pink Ball]

If I don’t train tonight, I’m going to punch myself in the face.

TSE you trust me right? Could you vote for me please?

[Pink Ball]

Oh so there was a point I had four votes when I voted myself

mod[/mod]

[Pink Ball]

lol

mod

[Pink Ball]

VOTE: TSE

[Pink Ball]

Don't do it Ame

[Pink Ball]

'Cause Ame is a logical guy and you got me lynched with confbias and no logic whatsoever

[Pink Ball]

Raven if you don't read what I say and disrespect me by keep repeating a blatant lie (that I discredited your theory when all I was trying to do was trying to understand your logic behind it in a good manner), it gets really frustrating and gives me the idea that I shouldn't play with you

[Pink Ball]

eventhough my XP level confirms that I couldn’t have possibly killed Raya than, I have no words.

This is not how it worked that

[Pink Ball]

Raven if you don't read what I say and disrespect me by keep repeating a blatant lie (that I discredited your theory when all I was trying to do was trying to understand your logic behind it in a good manner), it gets really frustrating and gives me the idea that I shouldn't play with you

That’s how it looked to me because I don’t understand how Raya would be confitown had there been a no kill. I swear it is 100% not/now/never is my intention to ever disrespect you and I’m really hurt that you think I would actually be capable of that.

Then read my posts and stop lying about what I say or do. You created a whole case based on a lie, because of confbias. You could just say "hey by PoE it's either Ali or PB and I think Ali is town so it has to be PB", but you have to create a whole thing to think you caught me not because of a mechanic of the game.

p-edit: you haven't hurt my feelings!! Chill

[Pink Ball]

Yeah ABR, chill dude.

[Pink Ball]

Dude ABR, town already won. I was the remaining scum, I lynched myself thinking I was putting myself into L-1, I didn't see TSE's vote on me and fucked up. It's a legit mistake, I think I had a great chance of winning this but I fucked it up. Stop fighting, game's over.

Raven I didn't get mad at you, but your reasoning was atrocious. It didn't get me frustrated because I thought I was going to get even more townreads out of our interactions.

p-edit: I'm not conftown ABR, I'm confscum. Town won.

[Pink Ball]

I'm so upset with myself for fucks sake I really think I had a shot at winning this, I played it superbly. I'm a fucking idiot.

[Pink Ball]

Thank god this game is over.

VOTE: PB

I'm already lynched, but sure.

[Pink Ball]

Just to be clear: I didn't give up. I'm just a fucking idiot.

p-edit: yeah but I fucking lynched myself lol

[Pink Ball]

You guys clearly shouldn't play with each other, why do you put yourself into this situations.

[Pink Ball]

Raven you're not MVP. Ame is the MVP. Mechanics won this game and he was the most mechanical player

[Pink Ball]

Oh yeah the way I fucked with you guys is that barding someone didn't cost me any XP, and it was considered a day action so I could train and kill at the same night

@Ame dude what the fuck was your role????

[Pink Ball]

I voted scum after Raven pointed out the slip. I may not be perfect, but I can see when I am wrong and admit it.

It wasn't a slip, it was you guys forgetting my role

[Pink Ball]

VOTE: Pink Ball

Be quiet Titus I was going to kill PB not you.

I just like you to take care of where your toes step is all.

Pb ame conf-town, we can just bodyguard them and lynch everyone else 1 by 1, no need to discuss anything with really annoying players or blatant scum

[Pink Ball]

Raven you're not MVP. Ame is the MVP. Mechanics won this game and he was the most mechanical player

I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings but denying me proper credit is super hurtful. I wouldn’t do that to you.

You voted me because of a lie and a fake slip. A broken clock is right twice a day. As I said, you could have come to the conclusion with "it's between Ali and PB, and I think Ali is town so it has to be PB", but you made up a whole case that has no rationality behind it.

You voted me, good job! But that's all. Don't get cocky.

p-edit: there were no inconsistencies in my play. That's my point. What you did really good this game was being a solid townread from everyone and recognizing that Titus was town. That's good enough, that fucked me, that's solid teamwork. You're a good teamwork player, don't take credit all for yourself.

[Pink Ball]

Also your townread on Ali was really good. I didn't try to frame er tho, but the "why would Ali derail Hectic's wagon" and you townreading Hectic gave you a solid 4 people townbloc: you, Ali, Titus and Ame. That's enough for winning a game with only a remaining scum. You had a good PoE.

[Pink Ball]

Raven, you played well, I'm only saying you didn't catch me because of a good case, you caught me because of mechanics and PoE.

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Raven, you played well, I'm only saying you didn't catch me because of a good case, you caught me because of mechanics and PoE.

No, I caught you because I had good reads and if you insist on being hurtful and denying me that, there is literally nothing more for me to say. :/. I would 100% not do that to you, ever.

You keep misrepping me. I said you had good reads. I'm also saying that I legit tried to understand your logic behind the frame theory, I wasn't discrediting you, but sure, keep reading what you want to read.

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From the Mafia Thread:

"And to be clear, I really don't understand Raven's logic here. She's confbiased on Ali being town and TSE being scum, so it makes sense to her that Ali was framed. But that really doesn't makes any sense.

Also I killed Raya because he was going to be conftown and I told that in the main thread lol"

"...it does make more sense now and I'm stupid"

I didn't discredit you, I legit tried to undestand why Ali was framed. But sure, keep lying.

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Do you honestly not see why I think this?

Yes, I see it, I told you back then that I understood, and I kept repeating that I understood after your explanation, but you keep saying it was a discredit.

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Raya WOULD BE conftown because he would both gift XP and target whoever, making that the two actions during the night I barded him, so he wouldn't be able to make a nightkill...

Be happy Raven, you won.

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Lying = keep saying I discredited you when I have said at least 7 times that I was trying to understand you, that's why I said you were being disrespectful.

Why are you taking this so personal, Raven, I'm not even frustrated at you.

If being the town MVP that solved the entire game makes you happy, sure, you did it.

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Stop using hyperboles towards me, Raven. It's not "really horrible" to "falsely accuse" you because I'm not doing such thing in the first place. Take a step back, I'm not attacking you.

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Lying = keep saying I discredited you when I have said at least 7 times that I was trying to understand you, that's why I said you were being disrespectful.

Why are you taking this so personal, Raven, I'm not even frustrated at you.

If being the town MVP that solved the entire game makes you happy, sure, you did it.

Stop using hyperboles towards me, Raven. It's not "really horrible" to "falsely accuse" you because I'm not doing such thing in the first place. Take a step back, I'm not attacking you.

You blatantly accused me of “lying” and how doesn’t that make it personal? I didn’t lie. If I said something incorrect, that does in no way mean I lied but that’s exactly what you accused me of, so don’t tell me that I shouldn’t be taking that personally. You know you would too.

You're right, shouldn't have used the word "lie" because it's not deliberate! I meant "misinterpret"

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pb defending me on d2 was bad

I mean I thought your lynch was going to go through

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Hehe I was wonder about that "Just to be clear Ame" post, PB.

That was the only time I slipped. I wanted you to come back to Ali

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I used that word because I'm not an english native speaker lol that's why I've been telling you to chill, I'm not attacking you or angry or frustrated or nothing.

And once again, your theory was good. I haven't said the opposite.

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I forgot how triggering the word "lie" is for you, sorry!

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Your PoE on D1 was scary dude. Well played

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Game swinged towards town because my role was a support one, but could've gone the other way.

I mean I describe a game as balanced when it's not swingy, but I wouldn't call it unbalanced/townsided either. Just swingy. We used the quest mechanic once, for example.

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Game swinged towards town because my role was a support one, but could've gone the other way.

I mean I describe a game as balanced when it's not swingy, but I wouldn't call it unbalanced/townsided either. Just swingy. We used the quest mechanic once, for example.

What about the treestump?
Either
- generates an unremovable IC at the cost of a town vote
or
- kills Mafia
Or the Restless Spirit(another unremovable IC)
Or the fact that scum had a really bad hand if town played mechanically well(regarding mechanics) which was not that difficult...(the removal of strongman would have been atrocious for scum even without so many scum dead early, and the quest mechanic was so openly scumsided that any half-decent town would have avoided it past Day 1)

Treestump is not an unremovable IC. I mean, it could be used that way, but people this days don't know how to play around an IC. They don't listen a player's opinion just because they're confirmed town. And the fact that they can't vote is, well.. Crucial. The restless spirit yeah that was very pro town but it never came to play.
The removal of strongman became atrocious because it was just me alive, but yes, that was the right mechanical choice from town. And the quest mechanic wasn't openly scumsided; we killed the player who recieved the treasure, the sabotage was the counterpart of the treasure and it never came to play 'cause that player died. And again, I was alone; with one active partner and Ali's role, Quests could've been a thing again later in the game, but we never knew what was the protown part of the quests.

As I said, I think it was swingy, but not townsided. You could repeat this setup and get a complete different game. If it was townsided, you would get a similar result everytime.

I like this setup, the mechanics were cool, it forced me to get better at game mechanics. If I were town I would've mostly ignored it, but as scum I was much more invested because of them.

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Game's already over. And I wrote that before I understood what you meant by your frame.

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And once again, it wasn't a slip... That's how my role worked.

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Twice during the game, during the day, you may target a player. At the start of the next night, that player will be notified that they can use an additional action that night, which may be an additional use of a standard ability or Training.

This is an exception to the rule that players may not use any other actions at the same time as Training.

When I barded someone, they got an exception to the rule. After I upgraded, I got barded too if I targeted someone. So I could bard and train at the same night.