Hydra Discussion Thread

[Skelda]

I've never played with a hydra, but I'm curious to know if we think hydraing is an advantage or a disadvantage for the players in the game? It kind of seems like it's an advantage having someone you know you can trust to talk things over with and not getting as burnt out, but I could see there being some drawbacks as well. But most hydras do tend to have a more dominant hydra head, which can be a nice way for people with busy lives to still get to play, but I would also like to see more hydras which are truly equal partnerships.

Also if our games are going to continue to struggle to fill like this one did, maybe having large numbers of hydras in games is not the way to go, especially when we're talking about 24+ person games

[Skelda]

I've never played with a hydra, but I'm curious to know if we think hydraing is an advantage or a disadvantage for the players in the game? It kind of seems like it's an advantage having someone you know you can trust to talk things over with and not getting as burnt out, but I could see there being some drawbacks as well. But most hydras do tend to have a more dominant hydra head, which can be a nice way for people with busy lives to still get to play, but I would also like to see more hydras which are truly equal partnerships.

If you want that, you should probably talk to MURDERCAT & June, because they were roughly equal partners.

I agree, and I said that in my torchwalk to them! They were the ideal hydra team to me

[Skelda]

Ego because I feel very strongly that hydras in games are very bad and don't know how to put that into words yet.

I honestly have a gut feeling against them too, but I think it might be irrational.

Fun experiment, definitely not a thing for every game or even most games. And I agree that I prefer them in more complex games, so BS was a good place for them.

[Skelda]

I also don't think having more than 3 hydras total is a good idea unless the whole game is hydras.

I would love a whole game of hydras to be run. Like a 12 person Big Brother game with only hydras? Yes please.

[Skelda]

I would be down with saying that hydrae either add points to a game's complexity or can only be included in games of a certain complexity. I know practically, a lot of times hydrae join games bc specific players request them, like Malkon and Flum in Equestria. But if I joined a Standard or Vanilla game wanting a pure Survivor experience with few twists and a hydra was present, to me that is a significant twist.

[Skelda]

Even in that case, I'm still fine with it.

That's buck wild to me that you can openly say "It is inherently unfair and advantages one slot over another but I don't care".

I dunno why striving for equality across slots isn't high on the priority list.

I think the debate isn't about whether there is an advantage to playing as a hydra, but about how big the advantage is/if there are enough other benefits of hydras to outweigh that significant disadvantage.

I don't even disagree with you, like my gut is against hydras and I think about all of my worst moments in games and how much better I would have handled them if I wasn't in it alone. Especially Hare passing off his final speech to Tortoise when he was burnt out was a moment where I was like, "Man I would love that to have that option," especially when contrasted with Rey who was clearly also burnt out but had to write a speech herself which ultimately cost her Avo's vote (and maybe other votes as well).

A lot of Survivor twists are about deciding what degree of "unfairness" we are willing to accept in order for the betterment of the overall game though, and I don't really view hydras any differently.

[Skelda]

I'll tell you one thing, this thread is really making me never want to play as a hydra because I feel like even if you win as a hydra, people are gonna be like "oh no, you were a hydra, such a huuuuuuge advantage" and it's almost like your win doesn't fully count. That sounds pretty depressing to me.

[Skelda]

And also if a hydra makes FTC again, they will get negative questions about the advantages that came along with being a hydra. Bet.

[Skelda]

I'll tell you one thing, this thread is really making me never want to play as a hydra because I feel like even if you win as a hydra, people are gonna be like "oh no, you were a hydra, such a huuuuuuge advantage" and it's almost like your win doesn't fully count. That sounds pretty depressing to me.

Sounds like redemption. Never understood why that mechanic is used when half the players have no interest in it.

It hasn't really been used that much, and I haven't heard anyone criticize hydras until this very moment.

[Skelda]

I don't see all-hydra games becoming common, but it would be nice to have one.

[Skelda]

I really doubt you could wrangle two dozen players willing to be in hydras for a 12-slot game with any sort of regularity. I think it'd be fun to do once but also the appeal seems like it'll dry out very fast since there's really not a ton of design space with a 12-slot game. Like we've only been talking about doing it as BB, because Survivor isn't going to be feasible.

The horrible part is that with a 12 person hydra BB game...you're essentially PMing/getting to know 22 people on round one! It would be insane trying to keep track of everyone.

[Skelda]

Noraa I enjoyed how much effort you put into the game and I'm happy for you and Mist. You worked together well.

I still don't like hydras as a concept though. I don't know how you can say that hydras aren't an advantage and then in the same post say that you wouldn't have won if not for being in a hydra (which idk that I agree with btw. As you say, you played super great and so did Mist, so it's very likely you could have won individually). I wish the two of you could have proven that individually though.

I do still think hydras are an advantage, especially when both heads are active and putting in effort. Especially at FTC, seeing the advantage of having two people PMing and thinking about the game and bouncing ideas off of someone they 100% trust really became obvious.

Anyway I love you and Mist, you're two of my favorite people on site. Please don't take any comments in the spec forum personally. Congrats on your win.

[Skelda]

Oh another thing: if there are hydras, there should be no flexibility with challenges. They should be forced to alternate challenges. Already the challenge aspect is a benefit for hydras since it allows players who lack challenge ability to play with someone who doesn't, but if they have any flexibility, that is a huge advantage over non-hydra players. Shouldn't be a problem if we have all hydra games though.