Micro 999 | Underage Gun Control | Mafia wins!

[Menalque]

Is claiming my IC status at L-2 premature or nah?

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VOTE: ythan

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I'm not saying speedwagon

Coward

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That’s the spirit

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VOTE: mare

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All the spicy naked votes, I love it

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Momrangal why do i recognise your name

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Flea is good, voting for scum

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Mare had

Maybe ythan bad

Hoopla good

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Vandercamp good?

Infinity something?

Momrangal something?

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Vandercamp and whoever is good of infinity/momrangal vote mare and let’s get that bread

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Depends, more scumvotes or more floof in bowls?

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Mare not lim?v bad

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VOTE: infinity

This is a serious vote

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I’m also gonna need to hear ythan, vanders, and hoopla justify their votes

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I dislike infinity’s simping for mare who is exceptionally null rn (if infinity!scum then mare equity goes up a lot)

I dislike his throwaway justification when he revoted me

I dislike him voting me in general

And finally I feel like he’s not been giving any real analysis beyond very surface level, which I will quote in 2 secs

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actually, that strategy may be playing with fire, as the setup is symmetrical with the inclusion of an IC. we don't want the innocent babby ripping the cord prematurely.

I think it's still good, I think IC prematurely claiming is not as big a loss for good as suicide bomber suiciding early is for evil.

This felt towny to me

This was pingy

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Hoopla revolting me is also pingy but I’m kinda waiting on the explanation before I hardcall it

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Revoting* ffs

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I dislike flea and ythan beyond infinity and mare is scummy but it’s in such a way that it’s kind of too blatant so actually maybe town

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No, no, dear boy, a coward, I’d never suggest that you sully yourself with cattle

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Y are u still voting me?

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What are your thoughts on infinity?

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That would be good, yis

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What would be even better would be voting for him

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She isn’t, she’s mostly null

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Maybe null-to-scum given that she’s posting elsewhere on site, but this game is so astonishingly dead that I’m begrudgingly giving passes on activity tells for the moment

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Nice

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Nice

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Sorry we’re moving forward into a glorious new age of luxury gay space communism and all reads are now owned by all others

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Incidentally, there are i think 2 answers that hoopla can give on why she’s voting me or else her scum equity is hiiiiigh and she’s repeating patterns from the last time I played with scum!her

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Loving that Menalque doesnt like me but doesnt want my complete and utter BS vote justifying lol

This is a very uhhh characterisation given that I was pretty obviously engaging with my wagon first?

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Hoopla revolting me is also pingy but I’m kinda waiting on the explanation before I hardcall it

consider my vote like rubbing two damp sticks together trying to create a spark.

I think this more or less falls within the remit of acceptable reasoning

What do you think of infinity so far hoopla?

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VOTE: Menalque and NOW we have the serious vote happening.

do tell

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Uh

Was that not a hammer

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Oh, mare unvoted

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actually, that strategy may be playing with fire, as the setup is symmetrical with the inclusion of an IC. we don't want the innocent babby ripping the cord prematurely.

I think it's still good, I think IC prematurely claiming is not as big a loss for good as suicide bomber suiciding early is for evil.

This felt towny to me

This was pingy

Why?

Felt like giving away an early relatively unjustified townread which I think is more likely to come from scum

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1 You give me the bad vibes, 2 you feel jumpy and 3 theres absolutely no way you go around demanding vote justification 4
and just on your attackers unless you're bad news imo

(1) ok, y

(2) ok, y

(3) uh, actually I tend to do this whenever someone votes me unless I think I’ve been actively scummy

(4) why is it noteworthy that I tend to focus on my attackers? Like, I’m at e-1, I know that it’s very likely that one of those 4 people is scum, are you expecting me to not be primarily interested in sorting there?

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And now some food for thought.

Mare is the only one who has been ran up to L-1 and none of the other wagong that have been formed are sticking. Let's talk and think about that for a moment

This isn’t true tho?

I have also been at E-1 and I’m not sure mare actually ever got to E-1?

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given its RVS I can't see scum being that worried about it really.

This doesn’t really make sense given that one of your reasons for disliking me is that I’m “jumpy” supposedly

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Felt like giving away an early relatively unjustified townread which I think is more likely to come from scum

I do this as town all the time though

Do you? I feel like this is significantly more a marker of your scumgame whereas when you’re town you’re normally more hesitant on giving reads

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i'm underwhelmed. i'm waiting for him to step up and dazzle me. where's the energy? where's the passion?

Not gonna happen, sorry

bc ur scum?

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he's only shown, relatively, positive feelings towards people/their posting so far and nothing pushing

This is cause he’s scum

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Not sure I love hoopla voting infinity actually

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Infinity, is this true?

Whispering voice floating in on the wind:

~yes mare, I, Infinity 324, am scum, sorry to have betrayed you!~

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Nah, I wouldn’t do that

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But hey girl, imagine if you like, just lolhammered him rn

Haha jk

Unless..?

Nah nah, I’m playin’, just playin’

...

Unless u like, wanted to lolhammer him

Nah, u wild, u wild

But I mean like... u could

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I also don't really TR hoopla anymore

Why?

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Okay I may have been wrong about mare

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You took my pagetop, so no, I won't do it yet.

Also ending the day right now would feel just like stepping on a little bug when I'm big game hunting right now.

You’ve passed the Schrodinger’s joke gambit, congratulations

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In panic room I tried to make sure that the reads were justified, whereas I just say what I think as town regardless of whether I can articulate it

I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm hesitant to give reads as scum, that's not true at all (especially with TRs)

No i meant more like

As town you don’t give TRs so quickly

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What about your mare scumread?

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lmao rip infinity

Were you scum?

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As town you don’t give TRs so quickly

This isn't true in most of my towngames

I cbf to go check rn but this doesn’t feel accurate in my experience w/ u?

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I also don't really TR hoopla anymore

Why?

Similar reasons to vander, she's very not out of her scumrange and I'm a bit more confident in my reasons to TR other people

This is also a like ? thing for you to be saying almost immediately talking about how you’re not engaged with the game

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And if that is the problem, what is gonna help u to get more engaged?

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Idk if I’ll be here much today but I don’t love the vig claim seeing as that’s literally the only claim scum can make that won’t see them limmed

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Like I think EV is prooooobably to not lim it and let him take a shot if true

But ehhhh

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I sort of feel like town!finity is more likely to read mom’s post as a joke?

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Incidentally

Mare
Vanders, ythan
Hoopla, mom
Flea
Infinity

But with important addendums:
- Hoopla/infinity not aligned, and hoopla down if infinity!town
- vanders/flea not aligned, if flea not scum then vanders equity up

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Let’s wagon flea

VOTE: flea

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Okay I’m gonna be responding post by post bc that is the most god awful formatting I’ve seen in a *while*

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1 You fail the vibe check. Thats all there is to it.
2 You covered this later on, so you know why.
3 Misrep by extraction from context
4 I'm a reflexive hunter as well, I don't often go looking for fights - Difference is I look on and off the wagon as well. As well as going to my attackers, who isnt on that wagon who I'd expect to be?

(1) okay so we’ll file that under “no reason” then?

(2) don’t think I did, but feel free to explain where I covered this later on

(3) how. There’s no extraction from context?

(4) okay, how is this relevant? So you look at who’s on and who isn’t on as well when ur town. I focus on those who are trying to push me bc I spot bad faith a lot easier when it’s directed at me. Why is it scummy that I do things this way?

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Youre really good at this content extraction thing aincha.
Given that this is referring to Mares wagon, I don't see how you see fit to not only remove its context but respond to it.

I mean, you’re saying that you think scum wouldn’t be particularly worried by being run up, yet one of your reasons for why I’m scummy is that I’m “jumpy”

Like I’m struggling to separate how that isn’t a comment on my response to my wagon, but if you think scum wouldn’t be phased by the run up why are you selectively applying that to mare and not to me?

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If you mean Infinitown doesnt give town reads so easily, Disagree. I've seen him do this a few times.

How many games do you have with infinity?

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This is STINKY. I've worked in a field of cows and that didnt smell as bad as this.

Y

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Hang on..
*Dives into the picnic basket for around a minute*
Knew I had some somewhere.
*hands Menal some straws*
You know you can just ask instead of reaching.

You know, there’s this thing you can do called “providing reasoning”

Saying “this is reachy” is meaningless unless you have like, literally anything to support that assertion or to make me think you’re not just talking shit

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This gives me heebies. Thats more personal OoG reasons though, dont use "it" to refer to people without permission. :/

This is rly obviously referring to “the slot” and not infinity as a person but also I’m pretty sure he’s a big boy and able to raise points like this himself if he were to interpret it that way! Nice white knight tho!

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Sooo Menal, remember I said about also looking for votes that SHOULD be there as well as ones that arent? This is one of those votes I'd be way more suspicious of not being there.

Y

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VOTE: Menalque - Summary being ye gods Ive made some awful posts and plays in my time, this boi be reachin hard.

This is (1) performative given that you were already voting me and (2) not based in any sense on reality given that you can’t substantiate in any way how I’m “reaching”, and lowkey I think that’s why you decided to shelter the majority of that post under spoiler tags

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Flea, Ythan, Hoopla, Infinity.

These people are currently off my lol!hammer list

Explain

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Yo infinity, what do you think about flea?

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Oh, okay

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I mean that doesn’t really change how terrible what was inside the spoilers was but I guess they’re not scummy intrinsically

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Yo infinity, what do you think about flea?

I don't really know how to read faer, fae's in my PoE I guess

What did you think of 269?

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I don’t think you two are aligned, probably

Correct, I am aligned with the town

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Hmm

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You’re expecting to die tonight, yes?

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Vote for flea and if u die and flip town I’ll send hoopla to the grave tomorrow?

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I’m not saying I’m hard committed on linking flea today

But I would at least like faem(?) to be main wagon and unless they post good content then I probably want to lim faer

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On limming*

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3 and 4 are a combined point, that you're seperating them is interesting. A player being jumpy is VERY different to an RVS wagon on a player going to E-1.

Only I literally was the RVS wagon so where’s the difference?

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Regarding the it thing, like I’m sorry if that’s happened to you but it’s not what was happening here and it’s hard for me to entirely separate that to an oog thing when I don’t know you at all

But I’ll give benefit of the doubt that it’s just an irl thing and not you playing for advantage or trying to pocket infinity

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The fact that you’ve just like faded away and not really responded to a bunch of my points/questions and now are just playing it designed makes me feel p confident this goes red

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I’m going to feel very embarrassed if I alt slip by the way and I almost did and I would have left out of shame.

>.>

Do I like know u well on ur main?

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The fact that you’ve just like faded away and not really responded to a bunch of my points/questions and now are just playing it designed makes me feel p confident this goes red

I'm the elimination of choice, my answers mean nothing when my flip speaks so much more. I got tired of your context shifting

Again, feel free to provide any examples of me context shifting

Oh wait u can’t

3 and 4 are a combined point, that you're seperating them is interesting. A player being jumpy is VERY different to an RVS wagon on a player going to E-1.

Only I literally was the RVS wagon so where’s the difference?

This is the only thing I don't recall answering, you werent the only RVS wagon FMPOV.

I’m p sure there was other stuff too but how does there being 1 vs multiple RVS wagons have an impact on the logic being discussed?

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Like you can replace “the” with “an” and it makes no difference to my point so you’re just playing at semantics

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Jesus Christ I leave the thread for 5 minutes and you people start trying to throw

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Votes back on flea pls

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Like, excepting anything else, just look at gamestate and flea’s reaction around faer wagon:

-Wagon on flea is v close to hammer
-Big push towards close of day to move it off
-Flea insisting that faer elim would be good/lying and saying that fae’ll selfhammer while actually trying hard to survive

That should really be enough, but then it’s p much additionally telling that the push is onto a non-content slot rather than onto someone scummy

I also find hoopla’s logic dubious: if, fhpov, flea-me is TvT then there’s a 40% chance of hitting scum in the rest. If it’s TvS then there’s a 20% chance in the rest of a 50% chance voting in the two of us. If it’s SvS there’s a 100% chance

So I’m failing to see what the benefit is in voting outside of me/flea unless you strongly believe it’s TvT and as far as I can tell hoopla’s point isn’t that, it’s just that we’re not SvS

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Flea is easily the strongest scumread I have and I’m not interested in sacking that off to do someone who’s just not been contributing much

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1 You give me the bad vibes, 2 you feel jumpy and 3 theres absolutely no way you go around demanding vote justification 4
and just on your attackers unless you're bad news imo

(1) ok, y

(2) ok, y

(3) uh, actually I tend to do this whenever someone votes me unless I think I’ve been actively scummy

(4) why is it noteworthy that I tend to focus on my attackers? Like, I’m at e-1, I know that it’s very likely that one of those 4 people is scum, are you expecting me to not be primarily interested in sorting there?

First instance of a context shift.
You isolated 3 and 4 into seperate points. They are the same point.

"theres absolutely no way you go around demanding vote justification and just on your attackers unless you're bad news imo"

This is one point, not two.

^posts like this are just fucking awful for instance

It’s entirely immaterial that I split my thoughts into two bullet points. It changes nothing on the substance of what’s being said, nor can it reasonably be said to be “shifting the context” given that nothing changes in the meaning of what’s being said. Like if you merge 3&4 into one thing it says the the same thing

So this is flea looking at the post and going “hmm, shit, how can I criticise mena/discredit this? Okay, I guess his thought process is a bit weird to format it this way... what if I say that’s context shifting?”

Like it’s just clearly not a good faith attempt to engage with what I’m saying lol

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I do think though that Flea’s paranoia/accusations towards like... everyone it feels like... means fae is probably town? And that I have genuinely seen them before be okay with being the vote while also still fighting against it.

Idk, fae don’t have that much paranoia towards everyone as far as I can see

And like there’s a difference imo between being okay with being the lim and trying to help town after you go, and incredibly performative stuff like “I’ll selfhammer” which is like... no, no you won’t, because it’s awful as town for no benefit, and it’s actively losing as scum. So you’re just saying it as a tactic

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I would probably put good money on hoopla if infinity is town

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And if he is vig and flea flips scum I think he should shoot hoopla 100% of the time

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You think that was theater then, Hoopla trying to perk up/rejuvenate Flea?

Why go that route?

I think that given the setup there are strong incentives to try to preserve your buddy D1, especially as it’s very likely one scum has to suicide in order to elim a conftown in the form of the IC or the vig

So it’s less like “that was to perk flea up” and more that’s what was needed instrumentally to justify them both shifting to ythan

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If something makes no sense as scum but also makes no sense as town the wise play is to lim it

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@vanders that was

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Also, Mare, I’m p sure I know who you are and knowing you’re an alt is making me a teensy bit paranoid

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But I guess you weren’t really trying to conceal it or you wouldn’t have mentioned it at all, which makes me feel better

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I want clarification from ythan that he isn’t the vig before we hammer anything

I had the thought that it was possible that infinity was IC and fakeclaiming vig for some reason and that’s why ythan was acting weird about the claim but if it’s hoopla then I’m not sure what the implication is

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Also, if this is a fakeclaim then the actual IC should definitely just activate their status

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I’m p sure even if it’s exactly hoopla/flea that this plan is also suicidal tho, so I’m assuming trueclaim

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Okay hoopla, so let’s say the viable partners are (vanders, mare, ythan)

I don’t think mare is scum and like honestly while we haven’t interacted enough for me to be totally locked on it, I can normally read her I think and I’m happy saying town

So that’s 50/50 in vanders/ythan

The two things:

(1) why should I take a 50/50 when I think flea is just scum?

(2) why ythan over vanders?

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Menalques tunnel is absolutely disgusting btw. How can you still be locked in that hard on a tunnel?

This is such strong “caught for the wrong reasons” vibes lol

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Oh god please actually kill him right now LMAO.

VOTE: Ythan I don't remember if my vote's here or not but it is now for sure.

your vote was already there.

She unvoted, actually

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Eh actually

VOTE: ythan

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?

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Uh

Idk how to tell u this

But that was hammer bud

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Hence the question mark

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Spoiler:

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nice shot infinity

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I'm thinking that with infinity conf!town that means that probably it's just a case of lim (flea, mom) in any order and win

I guess I do need to recheck mare but like I still feel fairly happy about that postflip

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Vander flipping scum makes me more confident flea is town

talk me through this, I had viable partners down to (Ythan, vanders) and I'm thinking the game is still most likely to end from a flea lim

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huh actually that's a really good point actually

if I'm not wrong on my mare read then it's v probably just flea

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I obviously don't know why or how you're wrong since you haven't given your reasoning!
I know that whatever it is, it is wrong, since I know my own alignment, but that's not really useful.

This was the one that stood out to me and really non-partnery

I think Flea's defence has been really weird, not necessarily scummy weird but imo not towny weird either.
The thing I did think was more towny was the resignation and them saying that they should die and that they were going to self vote, but if one of Flea's "beautiful" scum games involves self voting for an entire day then that really makes me not like that read.

I'm pretty happy with Flea/Ythan up top, I'd be pretty surprised if both were town here.

This one too I think. Vanders' behavior around the flea/ythan wagons felt like keeping himself open to vote either (or vote flea on d2 after a townflip)

I mean maybe and idk if it’s because I’m coming at this with a lot more suspicion of flea but this also reads like scum fence sitting

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What I'm most curious about... is why the Menal switch from me to Ythan

I didn’t feel like forcing you through vs conftown and hoopla made a good point re: mom prob not being your partner which meant it was 50/50 between Ythan and vanders

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What I'm most curious about... is why the Menal switch from me to Ythan

I didn’t feel like forcing you through vs conftown and hoopla made a good point re: mom prob not being your partner which meant it was 50/50 between Ythan and vanders

Maybe I'm having (yet another) moment... The wagons were me and Ythan, both at E-2.

You could have still pushed my elimination quite easily given how confident you were in your scumread on me. Yet you bailed, knowing I had full intent to hammer either wagon.

I mean, yea, I could have gotten into a huge shitfight with hoopla about it and maybe forced it through anyway even if she didn’t want to, but if I’m fairly happy with there being a lim on scum in the pair she wants then... it’s just unnecessary

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[Mom/Mena] probably wins I think.

Explain

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Infinity can shoot tonight safely

Hmm
Hmmmmm

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v/la

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Mare I don’t get how you went from mena!town yesterday to putting me in your scumpool today

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What was weird about them specifically?

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VOTE: flea

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GGs everyone

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I mean, yeah; that’s why I was pushing you

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No redactions in scum PT

GG all

Thanks lendunistus for modding, was a fun game

@flea yeah, your early reads were super accurate which is why you needed to be discredited or dead

@mare I can’t believe u turned on me

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I only did it bc of wincon, I swear

In normal circumstances, never

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Sorry, infinity

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Tbf I’m p sure I was intentionally playing for a pocket on you this game

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@hoopla most micros aren’t like this, this one was particularly dead

It’s probably slightly +scum for me to let that happen, but a lot of the time if I’m not active then it’s IRL related