Trigger Warning: Word Discussion: Gaslighting

[Something_Smart]

It seems to me that you are using the term "gaslighting" in a much broader sense than most people understand it. To me, gaslighting is manipulatively denying someone's perceptions to make them lose self-confidence or question their sanity. It seemed like you were using it in a case where people held different opinions from you.

I don't think that's gaslighting, because it's not malicious, and it's not disagreeing about objective facts. I may be wrong, but I think most people would agree with me on that.

I don't mean to minimize your experiences with your ex-husband, but I feel like you might be extra-sensitive to manipulative behaviors to the point where you sometimes misclassify normal behaviors as manipulative. (Which in a lot of situations is better than the reverse!)

There's not an easy answer to this-- for some people, getting accused of manipulation when they are acting normal could

itself feel manipulative

, so you can't really get free rein to make those accusations. But we don't want to completely deny you the ability to express it. Maybe a good compromise is to ask you to say how you feel more descriptively (e.g. rather than "you're gaslighting me!", say "I think my point of view makes sense and it's upsetting me that nobody else is seeing it").

[Something_Smart]

A lot of this just boils down to "you're just imaging it" which is gaslighting.
It doesn't have to be malicious but it doesn't matter because it is malicious. It's malicious because you're dismissing her concerns and making them feel like they're not real.

I genuinely believe them to not be real and I genuinely am trying to help her. That could be misguided, but it isn't malicious.

And, I'm trying not to be malicious. I'm trying to understand why she thinks that way and bridge the gap between her and the people who think differently.

At the end of the day, she did something that at least some people find offensive, and most people agree was unwarranted. Even if she doesn't understand why it was a problem, it's still a problem, and I want to at least make an attempt to come to an understanding with her, because otherwise she'll just be banned from using the phrase without knowing why.

Also, the end comes across as tone policing and in the end those 2 statements are literally the same.

If they mean the same thing, that's great, it means she can get her point across without making other people feel like they are being compared to domestic abusers.

[Something_Smart]

Manipulatory tactics are one thing - reads and meanings of results can be undermined, twisted and shifted by others. Your position in the game can be manipulated and undermined.
Your role PM cannot.

I agree with this. Accusing someone of lying, or doubting their honesty, isn't gaslighting. (With the usual caveat that I'm talking about how I understand the term, your understanding may differ, but I think mine is the common one.) Gaslighting is getting someone to doubt themself, and that means they have to trust you more than they trust themself.

Accusing someone of lying can absolutely be abusive or manipulative, but... this is a game about lying. It's a totally normal thing. And it sure feels unpleasant, but it doesn't mean that people are trying to harm you.

(And relative to what Alisae said, I'm not trying to be dismissive of Titus's concerns. Manipulative tactics are a fantastic thing to be on the lookout for, and it's perfectly fine to be worried about them, but once you have that feeling you should look for evidence supporting or refuting it. I'm trying to help that process by giving my opinion that the evidence probably refutes the claim. That's not dismissal.)

[Something_Smart]

I think the main point that doesn't have a resolution is whether it is acceptable to gaslight in Mafia or not.

I think the point is more about the definition of it.

How I understand it, it's basically impossible to truly gaslight in a mafia game, because it's an attempt to get someone to doubt their memory or perception for objective facts, but there's a record of everything that happens. If I insist something happened, and you tell me that it didn't, I don't have to freak out or doubt my own sanity or anything, I can just go back and look.