Open 823 - To Tell The Truth | Game Over

[Zyla]

VOTE: Cyrus.
Anyone can read that, and there's only vanilla roles any way, there's no point in it even if it were some master code

[Zyla]

no? If we get Player X and Player Y. and Player x's role is innocent, and they get a true result, they will be annouced as town. However, lets say we roll a 6 on the 1VX(number of mafia), Players Y's role will be announced as town even if they are mafia so we do we really have confirms? I could just be stupid

Wont X elimination confirms that Y result was untrue.

Elimination does reveal their rule faction isn't it?

If X gets eliminated, it confirms that X's result was true, it does *not* confirm that Y's result was false.
Since "X is innocent" is true, that means that "X is innocent or ..." is true regardless of what comes after the or

My only question is what happens if both results are false

[Zyla]

Oh, yeah, you're right Hockey

[Zyla]

D1 reveals the identity of two players - One of it is True and the other is false. Eliminate one and the other gets confirmed.

Nono, one is true, the other is

possibly

false
Specifically, the one we get tomorrow will have a 3/8 chance of rolling guilty, regardless of whether or not they are
(I'm assuming we can't do a no-lim because that would break this setup in a couple of nights)

[Zyla]

VOTE: arcangel

Wait wtf cyrus might be town?

What about this vote makes him towny?

[Zyla]

Oh yeah. I don't think I've ever actually managed to hit scum first time so I forgot it was possible xD

[Zyla]

N_M, why are u doing this to me smfh, pls dont claim scum when I tr u

It's Not_Mafia, this is just how they play.
Honestly, it's pretty frustrating

[Zyla]

It's Cyrus

[Zyla]

Wait, what do "irt" and "lettuce town" mean?

[Zyla]

I'm not so sure about Arc tbh, some of her confusion about the setup seems almost put on to me

[Zyla]

discrediting everyone here aka chainsawing.and whiteknighting.

I don't know what chainsawing is, but WKing is defending people, and "too early to call them scum" is way to weak a defense to call it that.
Angel's post was scummy to me, but that's because she was dismissing Hockey and your (Cyrus) reads rather than trying to

discuss

them, not because she was 'whiteknighting'

[Zyla]

discrediting everyone here aka chainsawing.and whiteknighting.

I don't know what chainsawing is, but WKing is defending people, and "too early to call them scum" is way to weak a defense to call it that.
Angel's post was scummy to me, but that's because she was dismissing Hockey and your (Cyrus) reads rather than trying to

discuss

them, not because she was 'whiteknighting'

so you think arc is scum too?

I find her post to be suspicious, yes
But atm I'm interested in what your definitions of those terms are

[Zyla]

Can we please take me off NM-1.
I'm slightly paranoid

You've got 44 hours, I'd suggest giving us a reason to vote someone else, not focusing on yourself.

Also, if anyone's confused, NM likes to quickhammer, so E1 is effectively a hammer in a game he's in

[Zyla]

cyrus, vote him by meta.

Not really sure what meta you're meaning tbh

[Zyla]

Can you tell which part of that you found suspscious?

The fact that you were dismissing their reads rather than trying to discus them

[Zyla]

I'm good where I am for now, you're one of my top suspects so I don't mind if you get eliminated

[Zyla]

Apologies for the delay, school got busier than expected, but I've gotten settled and should be back to regular availability

On my re-read I found Zyla and find her posts about cyrus/T3 interesting. Especially cyrus. I'd previously had a vague town-lean on her but when I did a deeper read this is what I noticed:

VOTE: Cyrus.
Anyone can read that, and there's only vanilla roles any way, there's no point in it even if it were some master code

A weak reason to vote cyrus. That's absolutely fair enough, since it was early on D1. What's of note is that her vote never moves after this. So if Zyla's town, either she found stronger reasons to keep her vote on cyrus (if so, what?) or she never had any better reason to vote anyone else?

The second one is correct

VOTE: arcangel

Wait wtf cyrus might be town?

What about this vote makes him towny?

Hockey answered Zyla, saying it was because cyrus scumread ArcAngel. Zyla said:

Oh yeah. I don't think I've ever actually managed to hit scum first time so I forgot it was possible xD

Can't quite pin down why but something about this post gives me a gut feel that Zyla knows ArcAngel's alignment one way or another.

I'm confused to what those two posts have to do with each other at all

N_M, why are u doing this to me smfh, pls dont claim scum when I tr u

It's Not_Mafia, this is just how they play.
Honestly, it's pretty frustrating

In response to NM asking why cyrus crumbed VT:

It's Cyrus

If Zyla was voting cyrus for the crumbing (ie basically for his play style), why cyrus and not NM whose playstyle she describes as 'pretty frustrating'? This makes me doubt the genuineness of the continued cyrus vote.

I do find Cyrus to be frustrating, but whether or not NM is frustrating to play with, I've also heard good things about NM's scumhunting ability, whereas the games I've been in Cyrus have not given me the same trust in his abilities. So if my vote were based on who I didn't want to play with, of those two it wouldn't be NM

discrediting everyone here aka chainsawing.and whiteknighting.

I don't know what chainsawing is, but WKing is defending people, and "too early to call them scum" is way to weak a defense to call it that.
Angel's post was scummy to me, but that's because she was dismissing Hockey and your (Cyrus) reads rather than trying to

discuss

them, not because she was 'whiteknighting'

Zyla's calling Angel scummy but criticising cyrus for how he made the same point. This leads to a discussion of semantics:

so you think arc is scum too?

I find her post to be suspicious, yes
But atm I'm interested in what your definitions of those terms are

I find it suspicious that Zyla was focusing on the semantics rather than either: looking for substantive reasons to either confirm her read on cyrus or clear him, or looking at other players to see if she could find a stronger scumread.

When cyrus answered Zyla in post 202, Zyla didn't respond to him. Was this desire for clarification just an excuse to continue to keep her vote on him?

I was partially focusing on the exact word choice, yes, it seemed a little buzzy, especially since I didn't agree that it was strong enough for the words to be accurate. I touched on this lightly in 183

Can we please take me off NM-1.
I'm slightly paranoid

You've got 44 hours, I'd suggest giving us a reason to vote someone else, not focusing on yourself.

Also, if anyone's confused, NM likes to quickhammer, so E1 is effectively a hammer in a game he's in

Feels like Zyla either saw T3 as scummy or didn't care whether he was eliminated or not. If the latter, that's suspicious (especially if T3 turns out to be town). If the former, why didn't she voice any suspicions of him earlier?

An alternate take on the "I'd suggest giving us a reason to vote someone else" is scum coaching, which perhaps is boosted by the fact she says that even though her vote isn't on him. This might be a stretch but at the very least I don't think a Zyla scum flip would make T3 any more likely to be town.

When T3 does offer an alternative:

cyrus, vote him by meta.

Not really sure what meta you're meaning tbh

Again this sort of feels to me like Zyla not really caring about which one of T3 or cyrus gets eliminated. Considering her vote was on cyrus at the time this is a pretty lukewarm response to T3.

I mean, I preferred Cyrus as the one to get eliminated, but T3 wasn't looking particularly towny to me, so I would've been fine with him too, yes. As far as 'scumcoaching', if I were a scum partner, why would I say this in the main thread instead of the mafia thread, that just seems illogical to me

I'm good where I am for now, you're one of my top suspects so I don't mind if you get eliminated

Zyla, what was it that made cyrus "one of your top suspects"? Aside from cyrus and ArcAngel, did you have other "top suspects" at that time? Was T3 one of your top suspects at the time of post 200?

Do you have any town reads?

T3 was my other major suspicion. As for town reads, Hockey is looking towny to me, mostly by meta from our previous game.

[Zyla]

Scum me is very very serious and town me is chaotic.

See, the problem with this is that since you know this about yourself, it's not a valid tell.
In one of my previous games, someone mentioned that I use the word "Honest" in about half my posts when I'm playing scum. Since I know this about my posting, I know to be careful to not use it much as scum, and potentially should be more liberal with my usage of it in town games.
If you know that you're chaotic as town, that's reason for you to try and be chaotic as scum.

[Zyla]

-snip-
The idea that you placed a very early vote on cyrus for an extremely weak reason and didn't find any better reason to vote anyone else (or even a better reason to confirm your vote on cyrus) for the rest of the day doesn't sit well with the idea that you're town trying to solve the game.

-snip-
Wasn't that what your vote actually was based on? I.e. cyrus being cyrus. This bolded line gives me the sense your vote on cyrus was for other reasons (such as cyrus being an easier mis-elim for scum to push).

Also if you're scum then the fact you see NM as good at scum hunting gives additional motivation to not vote him, i.e. to not draw his attention onto you...

When I had done a meta read of Cyrus for my previous game with him, he hadn't done his weird "crumbing" before that game. I thought it was interesting that with me and Hockey in the same game as him again he did it again; I partially thought that he did it again in this game thinking that the two of us would believe him, because he had been telling the truth with it in our last game together
As for the second part, I would hope that scum!me can play well enough to not let the fact that I'm scum influence my voting

that

directly

-snip-
This doesn't really address my points:
a. That you were focused on semantics rather than on substance
b. That while you used this to keep your vote on cyrus, you didn't respond to cyrus's 202

To me, using buzzwords while not seeming to understand them seems like a warning sign. In this case, it wasn't
As for B, he hadn't responded to my point in 183

-snip-
I mean, I preferred Cyrus as the one to get eliminated, but T3 wasn't looking particularly towny to me, so I would've been fine with him too, yes.

'wasn't looking particularly towny'? That sounds very lukewarm when you said (below) he was one of your 'major suspicions'.

It's day one, major suspicion is relative

As far as 'scumcoaching', if I were a scum partner, why would I say this in the main thread instead of the mafia thread, that just seems illogical to me.

If scum only chat in their day thread that makes them easy to spot so they have to have some main thread interactions too. Like I say, though, this line of thought isn't an additional reason to think you're scum. More just noting that if you are scum it's very compatible with T3 also being scum.

I mean, yes you have main thread interactions, but why would you be teaching them in the main thread rather than the mafia thread?

-snip-
"your other major suspicion" was someone who you literally didn't mention until post 200 and even then you didn't give any reasons for suspecting him, just asked him to make a case on someone else?

TLDR:
I really don't get the sense that you've been trying to solve this game at all. My vote's staying on you.

The reasons that I have for suspecting T3 have already been brought up by other players, so saying them wouldn't really help anything
As for the tl;dr? Fair enough.

[Zyla]

Zyla says you're a good scumhunter

She was lying

I didn't say NM was a good scumhunter, I said I've

heard

that NM is a good scumhunter. I'm still unsure on that

t3, whats your gun to head solve

Arc Zyla Imaginality?

Why Arc? I still don't fully trust them as town yet, but are they really scummy enough to outweigh the night result?

[Zyla]

For now, I think I'm going to
VOTE: MegAzumarill
MegA has mentioned not feeling involved in the discussion, but I see no effort in trying to become involved.

[Zyla]

T3, any response to why Arc is scummy enough to override the night result?
As Hockey pointed out, you seemed to be pretty interested in mechanics day 1, but now you seem to be going against them

[Zyla]

Also, just amusing even if not relevant

VOTE: zayla

That's a new one, lol

[Zyla]

Rule 12

[Zyla]

T3, any response to why Arc is scummy enough to override the night result?
As Hockey pointed out, you seemed to be pretty interested in mechanics day 1, but now you seem to be going against them

Come join me on a T3 wagon?

Not quite ready for that, but I will give Kop a chance to look towny

UNVOTE:

[Zyla]

why do we not have a hammer yet literally no one of posting

I was waiting for Kop to post, probably others are too?

That is correct for me

-Snip-

ok well meg replaced out, sooo

VOTE: ArcAngel

That is a total change of attitude, what made you so easily change from that question, to then voting for Arc?

Wait, what change of attitude, and what question? Was there a reason you quoted two different players?

That is a total change of attitude, what made you so easily change from that question, to then voting for Arc?

My vote was to put pressure on Mwg and force them to speak, but since they replaced out, I moved my vote. I wasnt nesccearily hard sring them unlike Arc, so i unvoted so the replacement can either scumtell or towntell. Imo it was better to vote someone that would actually be replaced.

This made me go back and look at your vote of Meg, and you specifically said that no one else deserved to be eliminated; if you're still hard scumreading Arc, why do they not deserve a vote?

[Zyla]

I do kind of agree with T3 here, so far Kop seems to be trying to sort, and Hockey seems to barely care about anything other pushing Arc at this point
So between the two of you
VOTE: Hockey

[Zyla]

Alright, so, at least one of NM and AA is town, and at least one of goats and imaginality is town.
That means that most likely there's scum between me and T3
VOTE: T3

[Zyla]

So we go between T3 and Zyla today right?

That's my thought according to setup, and T3 was already in my scum reads, so it works, but otherwise Arc is also questionable.

Tbh, I do not like at all how quickly Day 3 went by.
We got scum with the hammer, but we didn't actually give them any chance to contribute to the thread and slip up somehow
Imaginality gets town points for not voting Kop before he showed up, Arc loses points for taking them to E1 (especially since she's modded games with him in them, and thus knew his hammer rule).

[Zyla]

How is Imaginality is clear? Goats is obviously town becuz between goats and Kop, one of them was scum, since kop flipped scum goats is most likely town.

Nobody is cleared yet.
"ArcAngel is Town or Not_Mafia is Town" is a True statement, and "goats is Town or imaginality is Town" is a True statement.
For the first to be true, at least one of the two of you is Town, for the second, at least one of goats and imaginality is town.

I do agree that goats is most likely town, which means that either you (ArcAngel), NM, or imaginality is T3's partner.
If I'm mistaken about T3, then I would be pretty sure that the scum team is AA & Ima

[Zyla]

Unless goats is the ballsiest scum ever.

Is this about being put in the "truth" set two days in a row? Because, honestly, I could see reason for that whether or not goats is town

VOTE: zyal

xD is my name really

that

hard??

[Zyla]

Apologies, got distracted by some heavy IRL stuff, I'm gonna go back through ISOs

[Zyla]

Seriously?

With a town as quiet as this, this is why we need to eliminate scum!goats today or else they're just going to lead you all to defeat tomorrow.

If they could lead us to defeat tomorrow, what's stopping them from leading us to defeat today?

[Zyla]

Yeah, at this point I don't think anyone would be willing to swap to an Arc or T3 wagon, and your point does make sense, so
VOTE: Goats

[Zyla]

Zyla/imaginality isn't the team, so killing AA first ~always gets a wolf, and you can kill into both zyla/imaginality after

I am very willing to test this, and would much rather elim arc than you
VOTE: ArcAngel9

[Zyla]

if imaginality is town then fucking lmao considering he's literally making things up to push the only person who has killed a wolf this game, but alas, a broader overview of the game actually shows zyla/aa is more likely

On the other hand, how exactly are you "the only person who killed a wolf this game"? We were

all

gunning for Mega/Kop. You just happened to be the first person to vote for them

[Zyla]

My instinct here is to vote imaginality, the chances of two false negatives on goats or NM seem way too low for me
To me that says that it's imaginality

If that's true, than the scum team is T3 (has to be within T3 and me)

And off chance I'm wrong, at least we know that the team is {T3, Goats}, even if we lose the game by finding out xD


VOTE: imaginality

[Zyla]

Welp, gg everybody xD
Not sure why you chose that as your final group, but I suppose it worked, since you only needed to convince one person between me and NM

[Zyla]

Dang, if you'd just said so we could've voted T3 instead xD