Large Normal 235: Large Normal With No Multiball [Game Over]

[KittyTacky]

Hello, I missed the game start because it took so long.

I actually didn't play with most of this list before so this will be interesting.

[KittyTacky]

I noticed that the site meta has changed over time.

It used to be that power roles were helpful to the town, and that claims helped solve the game. This is no longer true.

I just finished playing Sybil's Elegy which was a great example of the role distribution being designed to confuse at best, and F up at worse, the town. I have played others with similar anti-town mod shenanigans.

Here's the deal.

We should not claim, ever.

Treating the game as mountainous will increase our chances of winning.

What we should do (and I include vanilla townies) is to crumb our night choices somehow BEFORE the night. Vanilla townies must crumb fake targets.

When you're dead, and we know your role and alignment, we can go back and use the crumbs for the solve.

Solving games by way of RESULTS and CLAIMED ROLES will not work. It just doesn't work anymore.

VOTE: DGB

One game =/= meta shift. If I learned anything from TOS and offsite mafia, an informed town is a winning town. I don't support this.

[KittyTacky]

I'm gunna veto this, but still read it as Townie.

Scum?

How serious was your first post?

It wasn't. It's a copypasta (as gamma pointed out)

Oh OK, nevermind that. It read like a serious strategy proposition.

[KittyTacky]

The only game I played with Nero (Sibyl's Elegy), he was traitor, and I'm not sure if his traitor meta is similar to his scum or town meta.

[KittyTacky]

Oh OK, nevermind that. It read like a serious strategy proposition.

In the original context it was. (Original post)

Actually the fact that you actually weren't in SE should have tipped me off. But I thought maybe I was misremembering.

[KittyTacky]

Sorry it's late in Russia, I'll finish my catch-up and post a reads list tomorrow.

[KittyTacky]

The only game I played with Nero (Sibyl's Elegy), he was traitor, and I'm not sure if his traitor meta is similar to his scum or town meta.

this isn't true. Not really sure if this is EAL worthy bc the short term gain seems minimal.

Correct but I don't consider "A Large Normal" to be

played

exactly since I accidentally broke a rule and got myself replaced before interacting fully with you. It's over so it's OK to talk about that game.

[KittyTacky]

EAL? By the way, what's that?

[KittyTacky]

Your play just seems so different this game

This is because I am catching up. Not good at joining late.

Weird vibe, especially since I only asked to wait on voting you until after you gave the reasons you already said you were going to post.
If you don't give reasons/the reasons feel fabricated it feels you are just trying to start a push on a townie for no reason, which would definitely seem more scum than town.

you are just trying to start a push on a townie for no reason

tmi slip?

This is blatant quote doctoring.

VOTE: Nero

I don't see the quote doctoring here? Yes only part of the quote is quoted but it is still relevant in that context.

[KittyTacky]

T3 could be doing a common noob scum play where they focus solely on scumreading one slot to look like they're scumhunting, plus not giving away too much. I've never played with them before though so I'm not quite sure of their range. I'm pretty confident that T3 vs Nero is SvT and if either flips green the other will flip red.

Chipping in, I played a game with scum T3 in Sibyl's Elegy and he is prone to ballsy plays (there he got hanged day 1 for it).

I wouldn't have gotten that if I just asked "Why?" because I'd likely (and deservedly) just get "why me fry me" as an answer,

why my fry me is just a weak push and only lvl 1 players use it. Also the fct that you wanted to avoid that just in case makes u look self conscious

What's wrong with WMFM? "Why me" is a pretty bad defense anyways and I don't really see a townie who isn't a total newbie asking "why me" in most cases.

I think you had plenty of interaction with me but the point is that you were listing our game history and you left out a game and ????

I explained my reasons, I counted full games only. Might have been a bad idea though.

---

Not enough reads to make a list yet, this game has been difficult to read so far. STD seems town to me on vibes at least. He played like this in our last game. Lots of one-liners, relatively relaxed.

[KittyTacky]

Fuck, messed up the quote formatting on that.

[KittyTacky]

The play by play gave me town fuzzies.

Maybs it's just T3, Kitty, Testa and a mystery scumbutt like AA9.

I don’t think Kitty is scum rn
Last time I played with Kitty!scum she crashed and burned kinda quickly, she may be suspicious but unless I see signs of her previous scumgame I’m not gonna yeet her, at least D1
Plus she’s townpinged me a little bit so far

Why she, my pronoun is written right there. And yeah I accidentally self-destructed that game because I panicked.

Shrek is either new town or scum playing at being new town which is lame so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Shrek seems a bit like Not_Mafia: slightly lurky troll by playstyle. Really hard to read. But somewhat less of a troll than N_M.

[KittyTacky]

I have more time now, will post more today.

[KittyTacky]

Only me and std scum read gamma

Can you explain your Gamma read? I don't see it.

[KittyTacky]

I still think checking an actively scummy slot is bad, idg what your response does to mitigate that opinion

as for bad feels it feels like trying to wedge me and Nero further apart
I've caught scum twice off that type of behavior, Nero actually being one of the ones I caught

confirming whether a slot is scum in the early game sheds a lot of light on the opinions surrounding them while an inactive doesnt give anywhere near as much information. you go from turning someone who could be an easy miselim for scum into either a lockscum + a ton of info or a confirmed town that the maf is forced to kill like nero said. idk why thats bad.

OBJECTION! A scummy slot is likely to die soon anyways, thus actually wasting your invest shot.

[KittyTacky]

A50 I'm sad that you rolled scum and haven't been your cheeky self with me this game.

Yeah A50 is oddly quiet. Though in Sibyl's he was quiet and town. Unsure how applicable meta is here.

[KittyTacky]

case on T3 is?

An opportunistic jump onto the first stable wagon of the game (Nero). Citing meta on Nero which would've been too early to apply, tunneling Nero which no other scum reads. Offering metadiving spiciness on Nero and then metadiving DGB instead. Then being a lurksack under pressure and confessing his guilt via an avatar of obvscum.

Lots of busywork, nothing of substance.

You know what, on a re-read I have a similar opinion. I'll sheep.
VOTE: T3

[KittyTacky]

Only me and std scum read gamma

Can you explain your Gamma read? I don't see it.

He opportunist icly hopped on my wagon then backed down when he couldn't bullshit his way to continue to scumread me. Wasn't hunting and when he finally did get a reads list it was lol bad. His recent votes of std and a empty test slot are safe lhf votes.

Yeah I can see it now but I think T3 is even worse. Plus his tone is yuck in the last pages.

[KittyTacky]

Although dotw is super right that we are just talking in circles and nothing new is being added. Waiting on lurkers and replaces is boring more t3 votes

Yeah I will be honest I think this is going nowhere. Just wait for Testarossa's replacement to post then turbo T3. We need a flip.

[KittyTacky]

{LicketyQuickety, Roden, NorwegianboyEE, Shrek}
{Nero Cain, Dragon of the West, Save The Dragons, Gamma Emerald}
{Almost50, KittyTacky, ArcAngel9}
{DrippingGoofball}
{Testarossa, Dwlee99, MegAzumarill}
{T3}

This may come off as self-centered, but I feel offended to be placed in the same category as the 2 slots who offered absolutely nothing (although I've posted more than both of them combined), so here's my question: Just how much more of the scumminess odor do i need to wear to earn me a spot next to DGB??

Most of this game you were about as quiet as me, weren't you?

[KittyTacky]

I have more time now, will post more today.

Heard of being AFK for a few hours? I

am

posting more.

[KittyTacky]

This feels like an gamestate of: "scum is getting wagoned so something fucky is going on, but it’s hard to tell where it’s coming from"
I feel like we should eliminate in T3/Gamma today but i’m not entirely sure whuch one is best yet.

That something is a split wagon. I'm getting slight scum vibes from Gamma (perhaps subconsciously sheeping) and strong scum vibes from T3. I just don't see town acting like that. If that makes any sense?

kitty can i get reads from you? theres not much to go off of based on your iso tbh

Alright. I'm having a bit of a difficulty reading people though. Maybe the game's too fast paced.

Locktown

{Me} - no explanation needed.
{Nero} - strong town vibes, seems to play somewhat different from his traitor game. Talks to people more. I can bin this.

Townlean

{Cheeky, Shrek} - haven't done anything noticeably scummy, good tone.
{STD} - meta read.

Null-ish

{Meg, Norwe, Roden, DOTW, Dwlee}
{DGB, A50, ArcAngel}
{Testarossa}

Scumlean

{Gamma}

Lockscum

{T3}

[KittyTacky]

also you seem to have left out LQ

Yep I did, they'd be in the same tier as STD but for a different reason: their interactions with T3, if T3 is scum, don't point to a team.

If I had to pick a team? {A50, T3, Gamma, maybe Testarossa if the lurking was on purpose}.

[KittyTacky]

also you seem to have left out LQ

Yep I did, they'd be in the same tier as STD but for a different reason: their interactions with T3, if T3 is scum, don't point to a team.

If I had to pick a team? {A50, T3, Gamma, maybe Testarossa if the lurking was on purpose}.

Replace T3 here with Meg I guess? I'm still reading D2.

[KittyTacky]

I completely don't get Cheeky's STD vote. To me it feels random and out of the blue. Is there a scumread that I missed or forgot about?

[KittyTacky]

T3 was a push by town as far as I can read it. He self-destructed is all. Any scum on the wagon just followed along.

[KittyTacky]

I have a guilty result.

Share with the class.

[KittyTacky]

And yeah, just tell us who, there are several widely-townread slots. Ambiguity helps nobody here, the mafia knows you're likely an investigative anyways now.

[KittyTacky]

And yeah, just tell us who, there are several widely-townread slots. Ambiguity helps nobody here, the mafia knows you're likely an investigative anyways now.

That sounds like something scum would say.

Wanting the town to get more unambiguous info is scummy?

[KittyTacky]

Are you also a checker? That isn't how NRG works on loyal.

Okay either there was a mod mistake, DGB omitted part of its role name, or DGB is straight up faking it. I'll refrain from voting it just now in case it's the first but

FOS: DGB

Kitty -- on 1835

What does this mean?

[KittyTacky]

1835 was bad posting

How so? DGB accused me, I defended myself. In what way is town getting more info on a result when someone is being shady bad?

[KittyTacky]

Are you also a checker? That isn't how NRG works on loyal.

I received no acknowledgement of my action, I thought the mod might have made a mistake, so I asked.

You remind me of scum!MathBlade casting doubt on my cop-guilty result in another game. Are you scum, Dwlee?

So the mod accidentally spoiled that your action was successful to you?

LOL no surprise, KittyTacky is scum.

Seriously, how am I scum?

[KittyTacky]

I'm not the one claiming investigative and then being shifty about my results. I don't see any town motivation in doing that.

[KittyTacky]

DIE SCUM DIE

I still don't see who you actually targeted. Honestly this reads more like scum getting mad at a botched fakeclaim getting exposed.
VOTE: DGB

[KittyTacky]

tbh i agree with dgb’s play here actually. better to bait out potential scum partners rather than end the day early

I can see this. But the rest of DGB's play seems just... artificial. Especially the reaction to my question.

[KittyTacky]

Good night. Tomorrow I re-read the entire D2 and parts of D1 and share my thoughts.

[KittyTacky]

Are you also a checker? That isn't how NRG works on loyal.

I received no acknowledgement of my action, I thought the mod might have made a mistake, so I asked.

You remind me of scum!MathBlade casting doubt on my cop-guilty result in another game. Are you scum, Dwlee?

The mod can't tell you if your action succeeded, only if it was received.

I'm not "casting doubt" I'm getting clarification because the way you described it is not how it works. If you knew your action succeeded it goes to a hard guilty instead of a soft guilty (cause the action could have been roleblocked)

My bad. I made a mistake in my interpretation.

The link to the neighborhood PT was in my role PM, which I did not notice.

I was expecting to receive a message from the mod regarding my action in the game morn, with a PT if successful (i had forgotten there was already a PT).

The mod did not understand why I was confused in my messages so we were communicating at cross-purposes for while.

So, sigh, now I have to explain that my action succeeded in the sense that the player i targeted was added to that PT (which i didn't notice because i had forgotten its existence) and is in fact town.

If you didn't ask so many questions it could have been a great accidental gambit

I'd probably speed-raptured for this but luckily there is a player that can vouch for me.

Alright I misunderstood. UNVOTE: DGB

[KittyTacky]

Part of me thinks kitty would be a little more cautious as scum but I guess I can sorta see a scum him think he can maybe throw enough doubt on dgb....but then I don't think it's exactly impossible that town kitty just thinks dgb was full of shit

Yeah their original explanation seemed like just that: bullshit. But this new one? Seems fair.

[KittyTacky]

So this is dw and my 6th game 3 of them is town 2 of them is scum so there's a50/50 chance he is scum. So I'm just not going to bother till later.

That is the Gambler's Fallacy.

[KittyTacky]

So this is dw and my 6th game 3 of them is town 2 of them is scum so there's a50/50 chance he is scum. So I'm just not going to bother till later.

That is the Gambler's Fallacy.

It’s not even that, it’s just WRONG.

I thought Gambler's Fallacy was exactly this? Assuming something completely random (barring mod corruption which is unlikely) is less likely due to it happening before.

[KittyTacky]

V/LA with college work until tomorrow.

[KittyTacky]

don't make it easy for scum, if cyrus is scum time will tell but don't lim him just because he's wacky because he's wacky nuts crazy bonkers cuckoo no offense

Honestly, agreed. I read a Cyrus game and played a bit with him once... He's always like this.

[KittyTacky]

Unless we're PLing Cyrus (I don't think PL is a good idea when there are still leads) I'm fine with going for Mega once I finish my D2 re-read and also my catchup.

don't make it easy for scum, if cyrus is scum time will tell but don't lim him just because he's wacky because he's wacky nuts crazy bonkers cuckoo no offense

Honestly, agreed. I read a Cyrus game and played a bit with him once... He's always like this.

What do you think of lynching Mega?

I share most reads on Mega. They just didn't do much at all all game and I don't like their tone.

[KittyTacky]

Also we now use lim.

[KittyTacky]

i want mega over cyrus because cyrus is actually contributing instead of lurking as soon as he gets sussed. plus with any luck cyrus will slip and reveal scum partners while we cant get the same info with mega

If MegA flips scum go Kitty next since they probably voted a buddy in case they went down.

???

So everyone scum votes before going down is a buddy? Framing exists.

[KittyTacky]

VC 2.8

MegAzumarill

(7)

- CheekyTeeky, Shrek, Gamma Emerald, Dragon of the West, Save The Dragons, Dwlee99, Nero Cain

[E-1]

cyrus62 (2) - DrippingGoofball, Roden
DrippingGoofball (1) - cyrus62
Shrek (1) - ArcAngel9
KittyTacky (1) - MegAzumarill
Gamma Emerald (1) - LicketyQuickety

Not voting: Almost50, KittyTacky

With 15 alive it takes 8 to exile.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2021-08-22 22:30:00) or when an exile is reached.

@Mod if a neighbourizer uses their action and is NK'd will their target still be added to the hood?

Answered privately.

Right I am not voting Meg until a claim is made or they stall for long enough. But.

FOS: Meg

[KittyTacky]

Just yeet them if they don't claim today.

[KittyTacky]

Hey @Meg, cough up a claim within 4 hours or I will vote you (because I will be going to sleep around then).

[KittyTacky]

Hey @Meg, cough up a claim within 4 hours or I will vote you (because I will be going to sleep around then).

As promised, VOTE: Meg

[KittyTacky]

Good night.

[KittyTacky]

When you miss a whole-ass day... starting my read of it and this current day after I eat.

[KittyTacky]

We should have just prob killed mega yesterday

Yeah I said Cyrus was just town who was acting weird. He always does. It's pointless to hang a VI for being a VI.

[KittyTacky]

When you miss a whole-ass day... starting my read of it and this current day after I eat.

You had 48 hours to catch up. Why are you just doing this now?

Because I forgot.

[KittyTacky]

Hello fellow cat.

I'm honestly unsure where to go regarding Shrek. Either it is a town being genuinely confused or scum messing up a fakeclaim.

[KittyTacky]

When you miss a whole-ass day... starting my read of it and this current day after I eat.

You had 48 hours to catch up. Why are you just doing this now?

Because I forgot.

Still scum.

You keep calling me scum but refuse to elaborate whenever I ask you. Interesting.

[KittyTacky]

Like forgetting to read a short day I completely missed because I was busy is scummy for whatever reason?

[KittyTacky]

You keep calling me scum

absenteeism and lack of solving.

Well I completely missed the last day so I understand the first one but I'm trying my best to solve. It's a difficult game for me, in my last game I did better (and then fucked up).

[KittyTacky]

Kitty how much of the game have you read?

Most of it.

[KittyTacky]

I haven't played in about a year, but is Alien a role that mods are actually putting in Normal games now? I know it's whitelisted, but a year ago, I don't recall seeing a single Normal with an Alien in it. Has the meta for Normal setups changed that much?

IMO normal meta is unstable enough now that it's pointless to rely on it. So yes. Look at some completed reviews and games, the setups are often so creative or have a gimmick.

[KittyTacky]

My thought on D3 is... why did they not turbo Mega after their action claim? It blatantly contradicted everything. Yes Mega died fast but the fact that they argued a bit more after that raises an eyebrow.

[KittyTacky]

Shrek has scum equity in my eyes RN. I'm still reading though.

[KittyTacky]

I legit forgot she was in this game 0_0

...I have my pronoun right under my avatar. My God.

[KittyTacky]

My thought on D3 is... why did

they

not turbo Mega after their action claim? It blatantly contradicted everything. Yes Mega died fast but the fact that they argued a bit more after that raises an eyebrow.

Who is the "they" that you're referring to here?

The players in general, particularly the D3 Shrek wagon.

[KittyTacky]

my claim as tracker was faked to see what mega would say and if he would fall for the bait, but i had to improvise when people asked me for my n1 results. it DID work, though. mega only claimed his results after i claimed tracker meaning that he outed himself as a mafia member immediately. i wanted to see whether or not he would double down on it but i was pulled away from the computer and the day phase ended while i was gone

Oh. Well you get towncred for that, still not enough to clear but this post reeks of a genuine town gambit rather than mafia pulling out.

[KittyTacky]

Y'all need to figure out what happens if Shrek flips town here

Cheeky stonks go way down in that case.

[KittyTacky]

Locktown
{Me} - no explanation needed.
{Nero} - strong town vibes, seems to play somewhat different from his traitor game. Talks to people more. I can bin this.
Townlean
{Cheeky, Shrek} - haven't done anything noticeably scummy, good tone.
{STD} - meta read.
Null-ish
{Meg, Norwe, Roden, DOTW, Dwlee}
{DGB, A50, ArcAngel}
{Testarossa}
Scumlean
{Gamma}
Lockscum
{T3}

This readslist doesn't progress well from the initial reads Kitty had at the start. It also goes with consensus in the thread with little reasoning.

Happy to flip this at some point.

Currently at:

{LicketyQuickety, Gamma Emerald, DrippingGoofball, Roden, ArcAngel9}
{Almost50, Dragon of the West, Dwlee99}
{Shrek, Nero Cain, KittyTacky}

If Shrek flips scum PR it definitely puts Dwlee in the lower bracket.

Well no shit? It was half the game ago, my two readslists were close together. My reads changed quite a bit at this point though.

[KittyTacky]

It's almost definitely a protection IMO. I don't see a case where it would be beneficial to no-kill unless it's some sort of 100000IQ play my brain is too small to comprehend. Maybe framing a roleblocker target or something.

[KittyTacky]

My assumption is that dgb was the intended kill and the bg saved dbg. Would dgbs neighboizor still happen if dgb was killed last night?

Wouldn't the BG die then? Do you mean doctor?

[KittyTacky]

Well no shit? It was half the game ago, my two readslists were close together.

My reads changed quite a bit at this point though.

Please post a readslist.

Previous list with flips:
post 1445, KittyTacky"]Locktown
{Me} - no explanation needed.
{Nero} - strong town vibes, seems to play somewhat different from his traitor game. Talks to people more. I can bin this.
Townlean
{Cheeky, Shrek} - haven't done anything noticeably scummy, good tone.
{STD} - meta read.

Town

Null-ish
{Meg, Norwe, Roden, DOTW, Dwlee}

Norwe town, Meg scum

{DGB, A50, ArcAngel}
{Testarossa}

Town

Scumlean
{Gamma}
Lockscum
{T3}[/quote]

New list:
{Me} - I am still town.
{Nero} - Still willing to sheep him.
{DGB} - I trust their claim.
Townlean
{Cat Scratch Fever} - Maybe too early to read into them much but good tone and shows an interest in solving.
Null-ish
{Roden, DOTW, Dwlee} - Literally don't ping me as anything really.
{A50, ArcAngel} - Quiet but that's not enough for a strong scumlean.
{Cheeky} - Lots of shit takes despite an early good tone.
Scumlean
{Gamma}
{Shrek} - Slipped one or two times but claim is semi believable.
Lockscum
Nobody yet.

My only lead is on Shrek RN.

[KittyTacky]

Fuck, I accidentally messed up the formatting on the quote.

[KittyTacky]

And by only lead I mean "scummy enough to be worth a vote over Gamma". VOTE: Shrek

[KittyTacky]

Lots of shit takes despite an early good tone.

Can you give some examples?

You die today Shrek never dies. MegA dies tomorrow, then DoTW and I'll find your last buddy no sweat.

Don't like the tone here.

i mean i didnt get a result back so idk what he is. you tell me.

Shrek claim makes the least sense. If he flips green can go DGB, but pretty sure he flips red now.

Says this when MegA contradicts more people, surely MegA's claim made even less sense? Shrek is still scum though but this feels like possible distancing from a buddy in hot water.

Also MegA is pretty confirmed scum if I was RB'd over them.

UNVOTE:

Why didn't you vote them then and there if they were outed scum?

And so on. And this is just D3. Now you're still townier than equity hence why you're null instead of a scumlean. Plus Shrek is worse RN.

This list has to be fabricated.

Well it isn't, it's my honest feelings on the current gamestate.

[KittyTacky]

KittyTacky, how can you have me placed lower than DBG if you trust its claim? Either we're both town, I'm scum with DGB, or I'm town with DGB scum. But there isn't a scenario where I'm scum and it's town.

You seem like a logical, measured player, and if you were town, I doubt you would've overlooked this point when trying to solve.

Make it make sense.

What did LQ claim so that the last case is impossible? I can't seem to find it.

[KittyTacky]

Yeah I read that, I just had a brainfart. Makes sense. You'd be in DGB tier.

[KittyTacky]

Ech


Am I obviously town?

Yep. VOTE: Roden

[KittyTacky]

Where is Kitty Tacky?

GMT+7, in the city of Novoaltay(j)sk. Don't want to tell more.

[KittyTacky]

I mean, Russia has like 11 timezones and depend on where he's from it could be really early morning. Is there something he's suspicious for besides just posting once a blue Mon?

It's actually evening now, I was busy in the morning and remembered that the day started just now.

[KittyTacky]

Gonna allow some time for a possible Jailkeeper or town roleblocker to confirm they didn't block DGB.

Exactly why I'm not on Cheeky right now, I have 2 hours before going to sleep though.

[KittyTacky]

I am confused as hell and it's probably due to my sleepy mind. Good night, I'll decide who to vote.

[KittyTacky]

GG! My role PM:

Large Normal With No Multiball

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Welcome, KittyTacky! You are a

Town 1-shot Ascetic

, aligned with the

Town

.

Abilities:
• The first Night you are targeted by a non-kill action, you are immune to non-kill actions.

Win Condition:

•

You win when there are no longer any threats to the

Town

, and at least one

Townie

is still alive.

Please confirm this Role PM by replying with your role and alignment.

I crumbed it early in D1, the first letter of my posts spelt out "ASCETIC".

[KittyTacky]

I often get scumread by town and Nero lol which is usually a good sign that I'm on the right track. It's why I said it's weird noone was scumreading me D1.

Yeah same, no matter my actual role PM I am always a Day Miller.

[KittyTacky]

I actually kinda managed to meta read Kitty

Was my playstyle much different from Sibyl's Elegy?

[KittyTacky]

I wasn’t in that
I actually felt your play was different from Owner’s Market Blitz + similar to LN234

OMB I just flailed and sank. I panicked there.

[KittyTacky]

I don't remember this game having any funny quotes to put in my sig unfortunately.

[KittyTacky]

I don't remember this game having any funny quotes to put in my sig unfortunately.

It would require you to play the game on the first place!!
You bagged a free win without doing anything.

Yeah as I said I had difficulty engaging, didn't want to replace out though. Sometimes happens.