Mini 686 - Chess Mafia (Done)

[Indigo Heron]

I disagree with 1. e4. The very simple, logical reason is that 1. e4 leads to 1. ...c5 - the Sicilian Opening.

Besides that, I'm getting a vibe that 1. d4 is the move to play in this match.

move: d4

I concur with SensFan. It wouldn't be good to start off with a lynch, at least for now. Perhaps later when Black equilises (if it does).

[Indigo Heron]

Suggesting silly moves the new scum tell for this game?

c5 isn't exactly a great move for the bN. I would play

move Nc3

instead

It's the Alapin Variation. I played against that in one of my earlier games on the site. However, I can't help but seeing that you're trying to make it look as if you do not know about it when it seems to me that you do. Just a hunch.

IGMEOY: Pesco47

Since we're playing against the Sicilian, I suggest Nf3. Bc4 is too newbie-ish to play. Since we are assuming that Black is going for the best move of the game, how do you think he'll react with THAT move?!

If we actually go ahead with this, which I doubt, Black would equalise for sure by taking control of the centre with d5 eventually, and would be gaining tempo by attacking a (in my opinion) premature bishop.

Move: Nc3

[Indigo Heron]

Sorry. Bolded in the wrong thing.

Unmove, Move: Nf3

[Indigo Heron]

But still...Bc4?! Nc3 may be a better alternative if you don't want the usual tactics.

[Indigo Heron]

Well, after some thinking, I'm fine with Nc3 or Nf3, although I wish I could say the same for Bc4. Pesco is right; Bc4 gets us nowhere. It also makes Black have an easier time to equalise (refer to my previous post), forcing us to have to try and lynch them.

Nf3 is a well-established, well-analysed move in the Sicilian, it leads to several well-known variations of it. So, I guess it's not surprising you guys may not want it. Nc3 isn't, and may still spring a surprise or two. I still need time to think about it, but for now, I'm still comfortable with my vote on Nf3.

[Indigo Heron]

After some thinking, I have decided not to follow-up with Nf3. It seems like a move everyone knows for the Sicilian.

unmove, Move: Nc3

[Indigo Heron]

I recommend playing 3. f4. It's probably the best thing we have going for White now. It also has the added merit if avoiding the Closed Sicilian, and is not very well known (for now). 2. f4 would have been dangerous for us, which is why I didn't suggest it earlier.

[Indigo Heron]

EBWOP: Sorry for typos. I'm using an iPhone to post.

[Indigo Heron]

Move: f4

For reasons previously stated.

[Indigo Heron]

I disagree. White should attempt to press for a kingside attack via g4.

move: g4

[Indigo Heron]

I concur. 4. ...f5 doesn't seem like a particularly good move.

Move: exf5

[Indigo Heron]

To me, Qe2 does not have any merit. White is blocking the white square bishop from becoming a factor in the game early on. Besides, after the Black Bishop pin, Black can then play to avoid moving the Queen out of the way. Besides, Qe2 cramps our end of the board, while Black is developing nicely.

Black would be nuts to play Qe7 in response to our Qe2, as they did not take advantage of the fact that our side is cramped.

Remember, we are assuming that Black will make the best move.

At this point, I'm all for a move by White's mobile bishop to d3 or c4, hence Bd3 or Bc4. I still need to think things through.

[Indigo Heron]

O.o Too right, Pesco. Only either people who seek to undermine White from within would say something like that, or are newbies. In chess, everything is expandable for the win (or draw), except your King.

Yes, I understand that, Pesco, about your Qe2, but perhaps it would be better off if we took the slower and steadier alternative to Qe2, which is either Bc4 or Bd3. Bc4 and Bd3, for example, initiates a kingside attack.

Currently, I favour Bd3, but I will rethink Qe2 and see where that will lead us to.

@Gorrad's suspicious activity: If this was a normal game, I'd have thought that Gorrad was a newbie. Unfortunately, this is a chess-themed mafia game, full of people who are adept at chess, and what more, people who have passed our able and judicious moderator's vetting, so yes, it really does seem like a not-so-subtle and not-well-thought-out attempt to undermine us. I still urge everyone to be patient with this, as us trying to lynch one of them means that they can assassinate one of us, not to mention that in a game like this, we can't afford to be careless. In the meantime,

FoS: Gorrad

[Indigo Heron]

I've been doing some thinking about Qe2, and I still stand by my disagreement to the move. The game played out in my head agree to my initial prediction of the move.

I would like to reiterate all of Goatrevolts points about Qe2, including my own, so just refer back to the posts that were made (posts #113 and #129).

[Indigo Heron]

@Pesco: If you do that, I'll just take the f5 pawn via Bxf5.

@sirdanilot: The '+' symbol means check.

In my head, whether it's Bd3 or Bc4, it won't really matter, since it will progress down the same road, and I wouldn't worry about the blocked d-pawn, either, since in about 3 or 4 moves, we'll move the bishop at d3 to b5.

Move: Bc4

[Indigo Heron]

@SensFan (Sorry, I was typing out my post, didn't saw yours): Unfortunately, I don't think that even Black will be as idiotic as to play 6. ...Qe7. Refer back to one of my previous posts (#113, I think).

If we DO end up pinning the bishop, which is what most probably will happen if we play Qe2, and we move Qe3, we waste tempo freeing up our lines, and Black will attempt to control the centre via d5, or move via Nb4, or Nf6 (I would've played d5 if I was Black). By then, Black is much more developed than White, and now White's Queen is in danger of attack.

[Indigo Heron]

Really? I think that Black's best answer to 6. Qe2+ is 6. ...Qe7, which leads to 7. Qxe7+ Bxe7. Black would be idiotic to let us pin their Bishop imo.

EH...thanks to you, I saw another route for White to take. If Black plays Qe7, White plays Nb5 (not take their Queen), which could be dangerous for Black. However, Black could simply play Kd8...so once again, I'm still got my mind made up on this one.

Now, back to the question at hand...

Scenario 1 is slightly better for Black. Black has a good chance of equalising the game, thanks to our suicidal queen. It has brought Black's bishop out, leading to better freedom of movement compared to White, which still needs to castle (what I'd do) to attack.

Scenario 2 is no good for White. Black has an even better chance of equalising, since White has lost tempo to regain freedom of movement for its pawn.

[Indigo Heron]

EBWOP: I mean bishop, not pawn.

[Indigo Heron]

If we DO end up pinning the bishop, which is what most probably will happen if we play Qe2, and we move Qe3, we waste tempo freeing up our lines, and Black will attempt to control the centre via d5, or move via Nb4, or Nf6 (I would've played d5 if I was Black). By then, Black is much more developed than White, and now White's Queen is in danger of attack.

I've already stated it right here, the argument against case 2.

[Indigo Heron]

I didn't say that Black had an advantage. I said that Black could equalise from these 3 positions.

[Indigo Heron]

Oh crap, Pesco, how did I miss that?!

[Indigo Heron]

Dubious move?

Not in my head, SensFan, after seeing it play out in my head.

I think it was because we were debating it so my brain forgot about any other move, concentrating on the possible moves we had.

[Indigo Heron]

Oh. I just didn't see it, not that it was dubious.

Moderator, can we get a votecount, ASAP?

[Indigo Heron]

Yeah...we kinda had that figured out a while ago...

FoS Level 2: Gorrad

for attempting to create meaningless positive points about him trying to help White.

[Indigo Heron]

I don't think there will be. Nd5 is the best move I can see.

move: Nd5

[Indigo Heron]

move: Nxb4

[Indigo Heron]

h4 is incredibly naive for me. Black has the chance to mobilise more materiel quicker on the kingside. White's position is somewhat cramped on the kingside if you push ahead.

Besides, h4 really takes away the initiative from our hands. In my mind, it's one of those 'Oh, what could've been' moves that may result in White having to resort to a lynch to win.

[Indigo Heron]

For some reason, d4 doesn't rub well with me. It seems too obvious a move to play. However, I do like Nd4.

move: Nd4

[Indigo Heron]

I disagree with the both of you. I vote

move: Qc4

because Black is more than likely to play O-O instead of Ne4. It unpins the King and gives it a very secure location which would be hard to penetrate. Qc4 blocks the castling move, and our Queen can run riot on the enemy's queenside.

[Indigo Heron]

We should CERTAINLY not move our queen from the current spot. By moving the queen, we garuntee the unpin you claim to be trying to avoid. Not to mention that a castle would be far from impenetrable at this point and that our queen would be undefended if we allow it to, as you say, "run riot".

Apparently, our playing styles are very different.

[Indigo Heron]

The problem with Qc4+ is that Black plays d5, which puts us in a bind. This is why I suggest playing Qc4 now instead of later. We can still take a pawn from Qc4, and Black will be distracted.

[Indigo Heron]

It's not like Black can do anything to stop the queen from doing what it does best if Qc4 is played.

g3 and Bg2? That may work...but White will have be on the defensive.

[Indigo Heron]

Qc4 gets met with d5, slamming the door in the face of our queen. Indigo, can you explain how we get a pawn from it? I don't see the move sequence that results in us picking up a pawn.

Move Qb5

If White plays Qc4 now....

10. Qc4 d5
11. Qb5+

See where I'm going with this? I don't want to reveal so much so that Black won't catch on.

[Indigo Heron]

They can have the Queen. In fact, I practically insist. I'll force them to make the trade by 12. Ne5.

[Indigo Heron]

EBWOP: By then, the pawn capture opportunity is gone...but at least we'll have something of theirs that's more valuable than ours in the endgame.

[Indigo Heron]

Moderator, can you please prod everyone?

[Indigo Heron]

Maybe you can explain why you're still voting Qc4.

The whole point of White playing Qc4 is to force Black to play d5, steadily stripping away his pawn defence. After d5, White follows up with Qb5+. Black can either reply with Bd7 or Qd7. I won't explain this step thoroughly, or Black will get a forewarning of what is happening.

Bd7 follows up with Qxb7. I can safely assume that Black is going to feel incredibly threatened at this point, and play O-O. So, White plays Ne5 to advance on the enemy.

If Black plays Qd7, White plays Ne5 anyway. Black will have to capture the Queen or be captured. Thus, a trade of Queens ensures - Qxb5, followed by Bxb5+. This leaves Black with two obvious moves, and perhaps one subtle move (I'm not sure about you guys - it took me 15 minutes thinking about the position and imagining myself as Black to see the 3rd move).

[Indigo Heron]

Do you have a better idea?

[Indigo Heron]

What I see as the two most likely lines of 10. Qc4:

10. Qc4 d5
11. Qb5+ Bd7
11. Qxb7 Qb8

Really? If Black plays Qb8...I'd be shouting for joy (in a way).

11. ...Qb8. 12. Qxb8 Rxb8 13. Ne5 (or Bd3) Ne4 14. Nxd7 Kxd7 with the advantage in our play again as Black's king is forced to take the knight, which costs him a castling move, which gives us an edge.

And then what have we accomplished? In order to even make our queen relevant again we have to move Qa6 first, which is a wasted move. Or we could queen trade, if you think going up a pawn is a fair trade for letting black develop while our position stagnates.

10. Qc5 d5
11. Qb5+ Qd7
12. Ne5

Which was suggested as a positive line by someone, but I don't see it ending well for us.

On the contrary. What is supposed to happen if we go down this step is not much further ahead than move 12. Take a good look at it.

12. Ne5 Qxb5
13. Bxb5+ Bd7

At which point we could play suicide chess, as I surmised might happen.

Well, I call it trying to take advantage of Black's position. I also don't like the fact that you are trying to avoid casualties, when White can take hold of the game. Casualties have to be accepted to gain an advantage.

14. Bxd7 Nxd7

And the optional

15. Nxd7

For extra TCS wrist-slashing goodness?

Nope. I was looking more at Nxd7 Nxd7, but I'll take a look at Bxd7 Nxd7...

Or...

14. Bc4

Oh, no, wait, they played 10. ... d5. So we move Bxb5+, or run the hell away.

How else does this line end? Am I just expecting the most moronic? What do you guys think, if you're thinking at all?

What on earth are you talking about here? I don't understand. You seem angered that we won't follow your suggestions (if they actually are suggestions). Are you trying to mislead us somewhere?

[Indigo Heron]

EBWOP: Uh....

On the contrary. What is supposed to happen if we go down this step is not much further ahead than move 12. Take a good look at it.

This post is not TCN's. It's mine. I simply misplaced the quote tags.

[Indigo Heron]

You doubt the effectiveness of the Grand Prix Attack? It's a very useful counter to the Sicilian and has gotten me out of many Sicilian games victorious.

If we play Qc4, Black would lose out if they wanted a queen trade. Now is the time to be aggressive with our forces, but I suggest Qc4 because we gain a materiel advatage going into the game, as well as applying pressure to Black.

@SensFan's FoS: I was also wondering about that as well. I had the sense that SensFan was trying to inquire about what I thought as the best moves for white on the first few pages of the topic, being expertly manipulated to see how my playing strength was.

P.S. I'll be thinking about Qe5 (a move that didn't initially come up in my head) till then.

[Indigo Heron]

Okay, I just came back from college, and have had some time to look at the position properly. My immediate concern with this question is that Black has a chance to fortify his position with O-O, which makes our job a lot harder. Qc4 blocks the castling move from happening, keeping their king exposed in the centre.

So...

10. Qe5 O-O (assuming) 11. Bd3 d6 12. Qe2 and we are back where we are, but Black is now securely holed up. an alternative move to 11. ...d6 is 11. ...d5 if Black wants to take the game to us. Then we can choose either 12. O-O, by which Black plays Ne4, which is BAD (AND I MEAN REALLY BAD - SEE ME USING CAPITAL LETTERS?!). Other alternatives are Bxf5 and Qe2 (which brings us back to square one).

[Indigo Heron]

I don't like Qe5. Enough said. I could give you an FoS just because of Qe5. You're pinning your hopes on the assumption that Black will not castle.

[Indigo Heron]

If Qe5, than Black goes O-O. We've established that.

However,

11. Qxf5 (your suggestion) d5 which puts the Queen in immediate danger.

12. Qd3 Nh5 (I think) 13. g3 Bf5 (pushing our Queen) 14. Qb5 (which is what Qc4 would bring us, only that Black's side is more developed. An alternative is Qd1). Be4.

*chess tag removed*[white=Everyone][black=? and ?]e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6*/chess tag removed*

Looking just 3 moves ahead, I don't like how Black has quickly established itself on our side. Qc4 plays practically the same thing, only that Black has less of a chance to mobilise. Thus, I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with veerus' move, and warn that his move is one of those 'oh-what-could-have-been' moves.

@TCN: For now, g3 is unnecessary. The only immediate threat to the f4 pawn is Nh5, but that can be countered, and it is highly unlikely that Black will play that move if we move Qc4.

@veerus (again): We aren't behind, really. We have a superior position compared to Black. Admittably we lost some of it when we played Qe2 instead of Bc4, but we still have the advantage, and the game is still ours to lose.

[Indigo Heron]

EBWOP:

*chess tag removed*[White Everyone][Black ? and ?]e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qe5 O-O Qxf5 d5 Qd3 Nh5 g3 Bf5 Qb5 Be4*/chess tag removed*

P.S. Sorry, forgot to re-check the board and input new moves.

[Indigo Heron]

Currently, I see that Qe5 forces us into a disadvantage. Qc4 would put pressure on their king, which would force them to make some decisive moves that could decide the game in our favour. No offence, TCN, but g3 is far too defensive and we are simply inviting trouble over.

[Indigo Heron]

Not to mention that you were so strongly in favour of Qe5, but after my post, you (in Pesco's words) 'backtracked' after intimidating us with an alternative to Qe5 = scum win. The way you worded said attempt at us...if I didn't know any better, you were trying to get us to rush a decision.

[Indigo Heron]

Why not just take the pawn after Qe5?

*chess tag removed*
1. e4 c5
2. Nc3 Nc6
3. f4 e6
4. Nf3 f5
5. exf5 exf5
6. Qe2 Be7
7. Nd5 Nb4
8. Nxb4 cxb4
9. d4 Nf6
10. Qe5 O-O
11. Qxf5
*/chess tag removed*

After black's next move here, we'll most likely have to retreat with our queen, but that's no disaster as we're a pawn ahead.

Bd2, I don't know. It attacks a protected pawn, but it does allow us to castle.

Where were you when I posted posts #343 and #344?!

[Indigo Heron]

Case 1: Qc4
*chess tag removed*1. e4 c5
2. Nc3 Nc6
3. f4 e6
4. Nf3 f5
5. exf5 exf5
6. Qe2 Be7
7. Nd5 Nb4
8. Nxb4 cxb4
9. d4 Nf6
10. Qc4 d5
11. Qb5 Nd7
*/chess tag removed*

I don't see it ending well for us down this route. The queen gets trapped into permanently running while they get plenty of attacks in.

If that be the case....

12. Qxd5!

You can see what's gonna happen if that be the case...right?

Case 2: Qe5
*chess tag removed*1. e4 c5
2. Nc3 Nc6
3. f4 e6
4. Nf3 f5
5. exf5 exf5
6. Qe2 Be7
7. Nd5 Nb4
8. Nxb4 cxb4
9. d4 Nf6
10. Qe5 o-o
11. Bc4 d5
12. Bb3 Ng4
*/chess tag removed*

This looks like a fine position to ask 'Would you like to resign?' That d5 is a brilliant move and we get screwed over this badly.

Equally good alternatives to Ng4 are a5, or Re8, or Bd6. However, if you intend to continue down the Ng4 line...which is BAD...

13. Qxd5+! Since you decided to shift protection from the pawn to somewhere else.

Alternative : Bd2
*chess tag removed*1. e4 c5
2. Nc3 Nc6
3. f4 e6
4. Nf3 f5
5. exf5 exf5
6. Qe2 Be7
7. Nd5 Nb4
8. Nxb4 cxb4
9. d4 Nf6
10. Bd2
*/chess tag removed*

How about this one?

Now this isn't half-bad. This was one of the moves I considered, but I favoured the more aggressive Qc4. Black and White's chances are pretty much equal from my PoV. Both sides seem equally developed, and both sides have attacking chances.

[Indigo Heron]

Just prod everyone...

[Indigo Heron]

I do agree with veerus about this. However, I would like to propose that we move to Bd3. It applies pressure on the f5 pawn. Black would most likely play d6 to get rid of the Queen, or d5 to complicate matters, but I see ways for us to win on either route.

move: Bd3

If you guys would rather, Qxf5 is a move to consider, but to me, it's too direct.

[Indigo Heron]

I concur. However, after looking at the board, I have deemed it unfit to carry out my proposed Bd3, as Black will threaten with b5 or d5.

Thus, I propose that the Queen doubles back to Qd3. Another good move that I'm considering is Be2.

unmove

[Indigo Heron]

If I'm right, no one commented on my latest post. 11. Qb3 d5 12. Qa4

How about that one?

11. Qb3 d5 12. Qa4? to me. Qa4 brings Bd7 to defend the King, and instantly, Black is on the offensive.

[Indigo Heron]

I have something that I'd like to post, especially what I've thought to be the best move for White, but I can't right now. I just got my new laptop (Sony VAIO CS!!!) and I'm currently pumping it full of

crap

uh....games and programs, as well as updating the OS system, and such, so yeah, expect a post from me pretty soon (approximately 12-14 hours).

[Indigo Heron]

I'm sorry, man. I really screwed up this game. I've been going over the game over and over and wondering where we went wrong with this, but I have yet to see where it is we drew/lost this game. I'll keep searching.

I propose moving to Qb3. Black is pretty developed, and he'd be threatening the kingside as well as the queenside if he is allowed to castle and bring his King's Rook into play.

For the sake of trying to win this game back, I urge you guys to see what I'm doing first, and to not speculate anything on this forum, since anything that we know and refuted as bad moves for Black are caught on by Black and hence not played.

[Indigo Heron]

No? Got a more elaborate answer than that?

[Indigo Heron]

It disables Black the ability to castle, which in turn would be very dangerous for us. It also moves the Queen to safety.

[Indigo Heron]

Not really, I wanted Be2 instead of Bd3, but you got the gist of it.

[Indigo Heron]

Well, I've gone over my proposed Qb3, and I have concluded that we'll most likely draw the game. Goatrevolt's Bd2 may lead us somewhere with it...at least in my PoV.

unmove, move: Bd2

[Indigo Heron]

Damn, man. I was kinda hoping that it would be peace-time for a little more.

[Indigo Heron]

The situation is a tight rope right now. I'd rather not reveal the entire plan and spoil Black with it. All I can say that Bd2 can still bring us victory. Anything else will just be a draw.

Look at the move from different perspectives and see if you can find it.

[Indigo Heron]

Assuming of course, that Black is stupid enough to play it.

[Indigo Heron]

I second that. Anything that gives White a chance to win on my sheet of paper does not see a queenside castle.

[Indigo Heron]

Trying to get me to reveal my chain of thought?

IGMEOY: sirdanilot

[Indigo Heron]

@pesco47 and to some extent, sirdanilot: There are 6 possible moves for Black that I can see. They are...

b5, d5, a5, Qb6, Ne4, Rb8. See them as you will, guys.

[Indigo Heron]

Oh God. I found a break in my list of possible moves for Bd2 that may not be good for White. For now,

unmove

while I consider other moves.

[Indigo Heron]

11. Bd2 b5 12. Qd3 O-O 13. Qb3 Kh8 14. Bd3 Bb7 15. Bxf5 Rc8 16. Ne5 Ne4 17. Bxe4 Bxe4 18. O-O Rxc2

*chess tag removed*e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qc4 a6 Bd2 b5 Qd3 O-O Qb3 Kh8 Bd3 Bb7 Bxf5 Rc8 Ne5 Ne4 Bxe4 Bxe4 O-O Rxc2*/chess tag removed*

That's on my piece of paper. There may be better moves than this, but this position obviously gets us nowhere, in my opinion.

[Indigo Heron]

11. Bd2 b5 12. Qb3 Bb7 13. Ne5 Bd5 14. Qh3 O-O 15. Bd3 Ne4 16. Bxe4 Bxe4 17. Qb3 d5 18. O-O Qd6 19. Rfe1 Rac8 20. Rac1 Rfe8

*chess tag removed*e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qc4 a6 Bd2 b5 Bd2 b5 Qb3 Bb7 Ne5 Bd5 Qh3 O-O Bd3 Ne4 Bxe4 Bxe4 Qb3 d5 O-O Qd6 Rfe1 Rac8 Rac1 Rfe8*/chess tag removed*

I was prepared for you to say that. The above board would happen. Qd3 first, then Qb3, allows Black the chance to castle and solidfy his king's position, but leaves him forced to defend a Qb3+ from which White can take some advantage and pick of a few pawns here and there. Going straight to Qb3 means that Black is forced to develop his pieces, and it really doesn't seem like it's going anywhere from the above chessboard view. To me, Black has a slight advantage since they are better placed to win exchanges as compared to us. Thus, I do not like Bd2 one bit. Besides, 12. Qb3 is one move too late for us to play.

I will, however, would move for 11. Qb3 immediately. I'm still working out the consequences of said move. Other moves that I am considering but have yet to work out are veerus' 11. Be2 and 11. Ne5. 11. Qd3 may also be an interesting proposition.

However, anyone wishing to chase after 11. d5, please reconsider. It's a bad move, and believe me when I say that we'll be forced to resort to lynchings to win.

[Indigo Heron]

@Goatrevolt: Off the top of my head, if 13. Bxb4,

13. Bxb4? Bxf3 14. gxf3 Bxb4+ 15. Qxb4 Nd5!.

Just by looking at the notation, I can already tell that things aren't going to go down well with White.

[Indigo Heron]

If that be the case, 16. ...Qh4+! How would you move then?

Oh yeah, I'd like to refer to one of your earlier posts. You said that Bd2 was superior since it meant that Black had to defend the b4 pawn. Black doesn't have to; he can't defend the pawn reasonably well anyway. Besides, Black can still attempt to defend it by harassing other pieces; our Queen, for example.

[Indigo Heron]

If that be the case, 16. ...Qh4+! How would you move then?

Oh yeah, I'd like to refer to one of your earlier posts. You said that Bd2 was superior since it meant that Black had to defend the b4 pawn. Black doesn't have to; he can't defend the pawn reasonably well anyway. Besides, Black can still attempt to defend it by harassing other pieces; our Queen, for example.

[Indigo Heron]

Crap, can you delete the double post? Thanks in advance.

[Indigo Heron]

@Goatrevolt: Are you sure you wish to do that?!

17. ...Ne3+ (if you still wish to continue) and now Black has a clear advantage (if it wasn't evident enough earlier).

@veerus: I know that. However, I can't seem to decide on either Ne5 or your Be2, or Qb3. All of them, just as Goatrevolt said, lead to some nice attacks by White, but Black will still force out a drawn position time in and time out.

[Indigo Heron]

Well, my chain of thought was 11. Qb3 d5 12. Ne5...

So...

move: Qb3

[Indigo Heron]

Ditto d6 as well for me. d5 is just a no-brainer.

[Indigo Heron]

Sorry, guys. I haven't been posting as much as I'd like, because, besides the lack of activity in this game, my computer is in the service centre undergoing repairs. The dumb VAIO is giving me lots of problems right now, and I'm currently borrowing someone else's computer.

Just glancing at AA's (You don't mind if I call you that?) sequence of moves, he may be on to something here, but still, it still looks like a very much equal position to me.

[Indigo Heron]

Okay. Now that I have some time to myself, I can now make my re-vote.

I WILL NOT accept anything besides Qb3, Be2 and Ne5. I have proven in earlier posts how stupid d5 is. I have also shown how we'd need to come to lynchings sooner rather than later for Bd2.

As Ne5 is not picking up any momentum at all, and the same goes for Qb3 I will vote for Be2.

Hence,

move: Be2

[Indigo Heron]

unvote; vote: Pesco47 We are in a bad enough position where no move is a great move and most lead to worse positions. Pretty sure us beginning to lose the game was the agreed point at which we would start lynching.

I don't see how we lost the game yet, just that we're not in the position to do a very good move right now.

But sure if we get a consensus to start lynching by all means be my guest. It'll spice up the game a little. But then we should completely ignore the chess game of course.

You seem excited; impatient even, to get to the lynching stage.

FoS: sirdanilot

[Indigo Heron]

Just when I unmoved on it...

Okay, I have shot my mouth off. I concede the point.

[Indigo Heron]

For obvious reasons (I already explained what would happen earlier, around December the 28th)...

move: Qb3

[Indigo Heron]

I'm sorry, typo.

Unmove, Move:Qd3

[Indigo Heron]

I'm sorry, typo.

Unmove, Move:Qd3

@AA: What? Is there a better move for Black than b5?

[Indigo Heron]

And here I thought this was a no-brainer. Had you guys wanted to move to Qb3, you should have done it on move 11, not move 12. It is simply a move too late...

11. Bd2 b5 12. Qd3 O-O 13. Qb3 (or perhaps 13. Qxf5) Kh8 14. Bd3 Bb7 15. Bxf5 Rc8 16. Ne5 Ne4 17. Bxe4 Bxe4 18. O-O Rxc2.

That was what I refuted as a (quite possibly) a best case scenario for us WAY back around post #530. Unless someone wishes to prove me otherwise...

Now, if we take 12. Qb3,

11. Bd2 b5 12. Qb3 Bb7 13. Ne5 Bd5 14. Qh3 O-O 15. Bd3 Ne4 16. Bxe4 Bxe4 17. Qb3 d5 18. O-O Qd6 19. Rfe1 Rac8 20. Rac1 Rfe8

From my PoV, White is in a worse position against Black than we are had we moved 12. Qd3.

In any case, I'm looking at the aggressive-looking Qxf5, which may be something that could help give us an advantage.

Note: The lines above were taken to and re-asserted from post #530.

[Indigo Heron]

Qxf5 later, after Qd3. You can see it in the notations in my previous post.

11. Bd2 b5 12. Qd3 O-O 13. Qb3 (or perhaps 13. Qxf5) Kh8...

[Indigo Heron]

He didn't say this position. He meant the position later. In any case, please refer to post #530 for all the stupid things that will happen with 12. Qb3.

[Indigo Heron]

Then, Veerus tried to argue the move 13. Qb3, which I provided in the next post.

Now that I think of it...whoops!

On the other hand, I think that Qd3, then Qxf5 is looking good for me. Let me nail down any irregularities first, and I'll provide something concrete from move 12 to move 18-19.

[Indigo Heron]

EDIT: When I say 'Whoops!', I meant that the analysis for going immediately to Qb3 was in my next post.

[Indigo Heron]

I see a break for d5 that may be advantageous to us. I am reluctant to reveal it, though, and allow Black the pleasure of already having their moves calculated and analysed for them.

I am still analysing 12. ...g6, though.

[Indigo Heron]

Okay. I've had 12. ...g6 and 12. ...O-O analysed up to about move 20, and I can safely say that I'm still convinced that 12. Qd3 is the move to go. 12. Qb3 just means that the advantage is on Black.

I'm not done with 12. ...d5, yet, so I'll look into that.

[Indigo Heron]

LOL, Veerus. What do you think of me, then?

[Indigo Heron]

I have no idea what my playing strength is, and I don't dare self-gauge my own playing strength, but I have played on mafiascum.net before.

[Indigo Heron]

Hey, guys. Can we please get back to voting for a move?

Moderator, please prod all inactives.

[Indigo Heron]

I won't be convinced without any analysis. In any case, I've already done the analysis for Qb3 or Qd3, and suffice to say that I am fairly convinced that Qd3 is the way to go.

[Indigo Heron]

Can we get another prod and a deadline, moderator? Honestly, the amount of lurking in this game is getting ridiculous.

[Indigo Heron]

So do we go on with our initial plan and capture the pawn on f5? If so, how do we deal with the discovered threat after the knight moves?

We can move Qb3+ or Qxf5. I personally would vouch for Qb3+. We'll take the f5 pawn later anyway.

[Indigo Heron]

Looking back at my previous analysis...

move: Qxf5

We don't really have a better move than that.

[Indigo Heron]

Was there supposed to be one?

This move was pretty straightforward, in my opinion.

[Indigo Heron]

If you play that....

14. Qe5 Ne4 15. Qh5 Rf5

[white everyone][black 2 out of everyone]e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qc4 a6 Bd2 b5 Qd3 O-O Qxf5 d5 Qe5 Ne4 Qh5 Rf5

Not looking good for us already. An exchange of pieces is inevitable at this point.

16. Ng5 Nxg5! 17. fxg5 Bxg5 18. Bxg5 Rxg5

[white everyone][black 2 out of everyone]e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qc4 a6 Bd2 b5 Qd3 O-O Qxf5 d5 Qe5 Ne4 Qh5 Rf5 Ng5 Nxg5 fxg5 Bxg5 Rxg5

and we have to start playing with stalemate in mind. So, no.

I do, however, have a solution to the problem. I propose we move back to Qd3. We've lured the d5 pawn out, and our queen is threatened with no safe square to fall back to but the d3 square.

14. Qd3 Ne4 15. g3 Bf5 16. Qe3 Nd6

[white everyone][black 2 out of everyone]e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qc4 a6 Bd2 b5 Qd3 O-O Qxf5 d5 Qd3 Ne4 g3 Bf5 Qe3 Nd6

At this point begins an exchange of pieces, but I have yet to count the exchange out. However, this is the best move I can see for White.

move: Qd3

[Indigo Heron]

I am liking g3, but I'm also considering Qe3 and Ne5 as possible (maybe better) moves.

[Indigo Heron]

I am liking my 2 of my 3 choices: g3 and Ne5
If we use 15. g3,

15. g3 Bf5 16. Qe3 Nd6 17. Bxb4 Nc4 18. Bxc4 Bxb4+ 19. c3 dxc4.

e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qc4 a6 Bd2 b5 Qd3 O-O Qxf5 d5 Qd3 Ne4 g3 Bf5 Qe3 Nd6 Bxb4 Nc4 Bxc4 Bxb4 c3 dxc4 cxb4

And we are looking good for the win.

if we use 15. Ne5,

15. Ne5 Qc7 16. Be3 Nd6 17. O-O-O Bf5 18. Qb3 Nc4 19. Bd2

e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qc4 a6 Bd2 b5 Qd3 O-O Qxf5 d5 Qd3 Ne4 Ne5 Qc7 Be3 Nd6 O-O-O Bf5 Qb3 Nc4 Bd2

Looks deadlocked, but with an eventual exchange of possession of the d3 square, White can still win.

I'm wanna confirm Qe3 first before I post.

[Indigo Heron]

My VAIO has run into several unexpected problems for a laptop of its stature (PC shuts down without warning!), so I am on indefinite V/LA (probably a week) while it is in the repair shop.

However, I do like my development of g3...so...

move: g3

[Indigo Heron]

@AA and veerus: Perhaps it would be best if you actually sat down and thought about the implications of Qb3. I see Qb3, for all its short-term gains, does us little benefit in the future. Qe3 may put us on the backfoot for a while, but eventually, Qe3 will prevail.

[Indigo Heron]

I stare and I stare...but I don't see Qb3 being as good as Qe3.

move: Qe3

[Indigo Heron]

I have my analysis to share, but I currently have time constraints, so just bear with me, eh?

[Indigo Heron]

In a nutshell...

e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qc4 a6 Bd2 b5 Qd3 O-O Qxf5 d5 Qd3 Ne4 g3 Bf5 Qe3

Making the move...

e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qc4 a6 Bd2 b5 Qd3 O-O Qxf5 d5 Qd3 Ne4 g3 Bf5 Qe3 Nd6 Bxb4 Nc4 Bxc4 Bxb4 c3 dxc4 cxb4 Re8 Ne5 Qd6 O-O

The inevitable position as far as Qe3 is concerned. We currently have a potentially winning pawn combination in the centre, and are well-placed to halt (in my opinion) any kind of attack Black can muster without sacrificing tempo.

[Indigo Heron]

Your alternatives are Qb6, Rc8, Bd6 and Bxd2.

I haven't looked into it, but Qe3 followed by Qb6 follows the obvious Bd3. Ne5 is another viable alternative.

Going after the pawn, which is what Rc8 does, simply means that White still plays Bd3.

Bd6 also means that Bd3 and Ne5 are viable candidates.

I know that you think that Nxd2 is the best move here. To me, it doesn't really matter. Kxf2 in view to the king's rook threatening Black's queen is just as viable. Same as Qxf2.

Besides, playing Qb3 means that the queen has brought herself away from the centre of the board. Black can force the queen to commit to that flank via Rc8.

[Indigo Heron]

I concur.

move: Kxd2

[Indigo Heron]

An outpost? Black's looking to infiltrate our position.

I say that we should confront Black's outpost before he manages to consolidate it.

move: Bd3

I'll post the reason when I'm sure of it.

[Indigo Heron]

Yep, TCS is on the right track.

[Indigo Heron]

Oh...

well, the principle is still sound.

un-move, move: Re1

[Indigo Heron]

Anyway, to the people voting Re1, what will your response be to ...Rc8? Our best reply to that before was c3 however that is no longer an option.

Then Rxe4, and Black might as well resign.

[Indigo Heron]

Firstly, happy scumday to Goatrevolt!

Secondly, I'm sorry for not replying sooner. I'm in Singapore right now (on short notice), and have not had enough time to warn you of the change. I'm really busy right now, busy enough to declare myself incapacitated from all mafia responsibilities right now until May the 20th.

P.S. Getting a Razer Mamba and a Steelseries Siberia headset!!! (at least, I hope)

[Indigo Heron]

For me,

19. Re3 g5 20. Bd3 gxf4 21. Rxe4 dxe4 22. Bxe4 and the game is...more or less still a drawn position.

unmove, move: Re3

[Indigo Heron]

If 21. Bxe4, Black replies with fxe3 and White is finished.

Anyways, that's the initial thought. I have a line that sees this position and with my moves that shows that this will lead to a draw. I need to finalise a few things first.

[Indigo Heron]

I'm fine either way. I just want this game to continue.

unmove, move: Qe3

[Indigo Heron]

What about 20. Bd3? I haven't actually thought this path through yet.

However, I strongly oppose 20. c3. 20. ...Qc7 and it's all over.

[Indigo Heron]

Oh sure....let's resign immediately after that, shall we?

[Indigo Heron]

Sound strategy, but that you've missed the rook lurking on the f8-square.

As far as I can see, Rg1 definitely has a chance for us to salvage something from this game, but otherwise, it leads to a drawn position.

@AA: I disagree with your move. I think that

20. Rg1 Qc7
21. Bd3 Bxd3
22. Kxd3 Bf6
23. Ne5 Rac8

Also, you guys are not including Bd3 in your discussions.

[Indigo Heron]

Well, I'm glad that people have done the analysis for me.

Move: Bd3

[Indigo Heron]

move: Qe2

I think this move is relatively straightforward. The other alternate move: gxf4 invites Black to attack our right flank.

[Indigo Heron]

You guys are being very materialistic. This is one of those 'make-or-break' moments. Right now, one of the worst things we can do is 21. gxf4. This would break up the pawn structure, and all Black has to do is to simply focus their attack on our right flank, and we're done for.

I don't say that it is the worst thing to do, since that dubious honour goes to anything that has nothing to do with countering the pawn's threat.

Besides, I foresee White easily playing gxf4 later on.

[Indigo Heron]

Not right now, no. Right now, we're just moving White's pieces and pawns, but I wouldn't doubt it if we resorted to lynchings to try and beat Black (considering the way this game is going).

[Indigo Heron]

We do gxf4....

21. gxf4 Bd6 22. Ne5 Bxh1 23. Rxh1 Qh4 24. Rf1 Qxh2+.

[Indigo Heron]

How can you not see the attack coming?!

[Indigo Heron]

Really? You don't play Ne5, and see what happens.

[Indigo Heron]

move: Qxd3

For sure.

[Indigo Heron]

@TCS: I don't think we could have possibly missed a mate opportunity. I'm sure that this game has more than competent players that would catch a mate opportunity if and when they saw it.

Meanwhile, I'm supporting neither of sirdanilot's moves. I propose g4. Black is stuck then. The only reason I haven't confirmed it is because I want to be sure of the moves first.

[Indigo Heron]

@veerus: A knight is techincally speaking the best piece to block a pawn with.

@everyone else: I have my finals coming up next week on July the 20th and 21st, so I cannot pay close attention until then.

[Indigo Heron]

With what little time I have (finals), I've gone over Re6 and g4 repeatedly, and I definitely believe that we can go ahead with either move. Black is stumped either way. However, simply because Re6 seems more aggressive,

move: Re6

[Indigo Heron]

EBWOP:

unmove, move: Re6

[Indigo Heron]

Okay. My finals are done, so I can give my full attention to this game now (as well as another Newbie game, my practical driving test, and application to transfer to another university....).

[Indigo Heron]

I like our chances with Ng5. I'll most probably vote for it tomorrow after thinking through.

[Indigo Heron]

A draw? I see victory!

There are better moves than Rhe1. We're already covering the rook with the knight.

move: Rf1

Rf1 clears a path for the pawns to move up, and we'll easily take the knight back anyways. Besides, for those who can see a little further, check out the nasty surprise that this move holds in store for Black.

[Indigo Heron]

I don't think Black is stupid enough to accept the trade that obviously will not end well for them. If I were Black, I'd move Rf8. Can you see what's to come if Black moves Rf8?

[Indigo Heron]

Looked into what: Rf1 for White or Rf8 for Black?

[Indigo Heron]

...My response for Rf8 was responding to Rhe1. Anyways,

Rf1 Rf8 h4.

[Indigo Heron]

I never actually argued for Rf1, but anyways...

[Indigo Heron]

@Emp: Keyword in your quote is 'actually'.

Also, your argument concerning Rf1 is flawed. You said that after Rf1 Rh6, Black will come out top. I think you're blind.

Rf1 Rh6? Rxh6 Qxg5 Rxd6 fxg3+ Qe3 Qxe3+ Kxe3 and does Black have anything else left? The passed pawn is all laid to waste for Black.

I also don't agree with Qf3. I personally do not want to change tack to the centre when we already have an attack lined up for Black's kingside.

@veerus: You must be just as equally blind as Emp (for this move). It's so bad, I think I'll put it as a blunder.

Re1 Rf8 Rh6?? (your killer attack) Qxg5!

What will you do now?

[Indigo Heron]

@Emp: The 'aggression I was so gungho about' was because deadline was approaching, and I just wanted to make the game move (we were waterlogged for that day). As it turns out, Black made some bad (tentatively speaking) moves, so we weren't punished that badly.

Also, right now, Black has to attack, or pay the price. We just sit back and wait for them to come. All we have to do is keep our cool, and we'll pull through.

Also, Black does not have the opportunity. We have the initiative. Black's bishop is stuck, and we have a pawn majority on both flanks.

[Indigo Heron]

EBWOP:

@Emp:

Also, your argument concerning Rf1 is flawed. You said that after Rf1 Rh6, Black will come out top. I think you're blind.

Rf1 Rh6? Rxh6 Qxg5 Rxd6 fxg3+ Qe3 Qxe3+ Kxe3 and does Black have anything else left? The passed pawn is all laid to waste for Black.

I'm interested in seeing how you reply to this.

@Goatrevolt:

Rf1, Rf8

And the queen forces a knight retreat. The other alternative being h4 to protect the Knight, but that just opens us to fxg3 and a protected passed pawn.

The passed pawn is easily countered. Why can't people see that? Why can't people see that fxg3 is the least of our worries regarding that move?

[Indigo Heron]

I still want to know why you tried to deny you were arguing for Rf1.

I didn't throw out my entire game plan for Rf1. That would be an 'actual' argument. I'm still liking Rf1, and I will not budge on this matter.

Also, deadline’s approaching now too, so how is your attitude regarding aggression any different here?

Wait, what? I was? I thought you were talking about the move per se?

[Indigo Heron]

...My response for Rf8 was responding to Rhe1. Anyways,

Rf1 Rf8 h4.

Why h4?

h4 protects the knight from a discovered attack instigated by Black's queen.

[Indigo Heron]

EBWOP: Also, we can play h4, since Black cannot simply play fxg3 without losing his rook (thanks to the rook on the f file).

Ok, I'm gonna look over the given suggestions of this day. But I've seen that Qf3 has a lot of support. I haven't read why yet, but from the look of that last bord given, it would give the rook on the f-line a lot of freedom. I don't see why we want that. It would result into a giant attack on the knight, which only the rook and the queen can protect. The rook is easy for black to take down, leaving two black pieces (the queen and the rook) to attack the knight with only the defence from the queen. Leading into a knight win for black or a knight and queen with as return a rook.
The other option would be to get the knight into safety, which would lead into a giant battle among the pawn at f4. And again, black seems to win that as they would have 4 pieces to attack, while we can only defend with 3 pieces (once again, the rook that is now at e6 can't do a thing).

Either this line of thinking is wrong, or I'm not seeing something that you are seeing.

tl;dr
In my opinion, Qf3 will lead into a lot of destruction at the least. At most, we'll lose.

FINALLY, someone who sees it my way!

[Indigo Heron]

Guys...

after Rh6, doesn't Qxf5 ring a bell? Black would be a bitch if they lost after that.

[Indigo Heron]

FoS: ah2190

purely because of OMGUS.

25. Rhe1 Rf8 26. Rh6....

e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qc4 a6 Bd2 b5 Qd3 O-O Qxf5 d5 Qd3 Ne4 g3 Bf5 Qb3 Nxd2 Kxd2 Be4 Re1 Kh8 Qe3 g5 Bd3 gxf4 Qe2 Bxd3 Qxd3 Bd6 Re6 Rf6 Ng5 Ra7 Rhe1 Rf8 Rh6

From here on, what is the most obvious move that Black can make? Qxg5 of course!

e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qc4 a6 Bd2 b5 Qd3 O-O Qxf5 d5 Qd3 Ne4 g3 Bf5 Qb3 Nxd2 Kxd2 Be4 Re1 Kh8 Qe3 g5 Bd3 gxf4 Qe2 Bxd3 Qxd3 Bd6 Re6 Rf6 Ng5 Ra7 Rhe1 Rf8 Rh6 Qxg5

It destroys the entire attack that White has planned, and from my PoV, we had better resign if we keep going down this course.

P.S. I feel retarded that I have to show you guys chess boards, when I thought that notation would clearly be good enough.

[Indigo Heron]

Actually, that was more OMGUS than my FOS would have been!

How so? You are making the move for all the wrong reasons! The fact that you are willing to let this killer move go by is just plain OMGUS.

But, never, EVER, reveal weaknesses. Because Black might exploit them.

Therein lies the flaw in the plan. There is no way that Black could have missed that. I would bet my participation in this game on it.

[Indigo Heron]

e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qc4 a6 Bd2 b5 Qd3 O-O Qxf5 d5 Qd3 Ne4 g3 Bf5 Qb3 Nxd2 Kxd2 Be4 Re1 Kh8 Qe3 g5 Bd3 gxf4 Qe2 Bxd3 Qxd3 Bd6 Re6 Rf6 Ng5 Ra7 Rhe1 Rf8 Rh6 Qxg5 Rxd6 fxg3<textarea id="ChessTextareaUnset" style="display:none"> There. Easily done. The f4-pawn and queen now have something to do, and we're well on our way to losing. Why isn't anyone seeing this through?

[Indigo Heron]

EBWOP:

e4 c5 Nc3 Nc6 f4 e6 Nf3 f5 exf5 exf5 Qe2 Be7 Nd5 Nb4 Nxb4 cxb4 d4 Nf6 Qc4 a6 Bd2 b5 Qd3 O-O Qxf5 d5 Qd3 Ne4 g3 Bf5 Qb3 Nxd2 Kxd2 Be4 Re1 Kh8 Qe3 g5 Bd3 gxf4 Qe2 Bxd3 Qxd3 Bd6 Re6 Rf6 Ng5 Ra7 Rhe1 Rf8 Rh6 Qxg5 Rxd6 fxg3

[Indigo Heron]

I'm trying to show you guys how silly it is to keep pursuing this way down. I normally don't do this, but I'm astounded that you people aren't seeing why we cannot move Rh6 after Rhe1.

The reason why I still pushed for h4 for the Rf8 route is because Black cannot simply take the g3 pawn.

[Indigo Heron]

No. White cannot afford to play h4 if we don't play Rf1.

[Indigo Heron]

I concur. h4 is a no-brainer.

move: h4

[Indigo Heron]

I really don't want to leave our g3 pawn exposed to fxg3 with that bishop covering it.

Really? I don't see fxg3 being a viable move for Black.

[Indigo Heron]

For me, I don't think fxg3 will even materialise. I can see White playing g4 on the next move (assuming Black moves where I think it will move).

[Indigo Heron]

Really? Mind explaining it to me? I personally don't see any credible threat on the rook.

[Indigo Heron]

/prod received

[Indigo Heron]

I believe that gxf4 is not a good move. It's incredibly short-sighted, enough said.

Re5 isn't very good either, at least when I compare it to either Qd3 or Nxh7.

Qd3 Qf8 Nxh7 Kxh7 g4 Kh8 gxf5 Rc7 Rxa6 Bf6 Rf1 f3 and really, Black is screwed all over.

OR....

Nxh7 Bf8 Ng5 Rf6 gxf4 Rc7 Kc1 Rxc2 Kxc2 Qc8 Kb1 and Black is still screwed, but at least he goes down trading pieces.

I've yet to make up my mind, but I will. In the meantime, I beseech you to unvote and discuss the new moves first.

[Indigo Heron]

I'm convinced in Qd3.

Move: Qd3

[Indigo Heron]

The moves I put forward are the moves that I think Black will make (or at least, moves that I will make).

I love the move at first blush, but I haven't really trusted AA or veerus for a while now. I need to look it over more thoroughly before voting.

Really? I never really trusted veerus, Goatrevolt and ah2190.

[Indigo Heron]

Also, as long as you are comfortable playing chess, there is no reason to even be concerned with the mafia aspects of this game.

QFT. However, I did have my hair-tearing moments.

[Indigo Heron]

Sure, go ahead. I think we can agree that Black is screwed either way.

[Indigo Heron]

Nxh7? White can solidify their position and play Qxd5.

Also, why are we caring about materiel gains, when we should be thinking about their King?

[Indigo Heron]

I will stick by my move.

move: Nxh7

[Indigo Heron]

Off the top of my head? Ng5 perhaps?

[Indigo Heron]

Yes, I meant Nxh7 as our previous plan, sorry.

I will stick by my move.

move: Nxh7

Hmmm. Don't you see the superiority of g4?

I do, but I see Nxh7 as being even more superior.

[Indigo Heron]

@veerus: Black thwarts White's attack, but gives White an even stronger attack. Your point is...?

[Indigo Heron]

..but gives White an even stronger attack.

You didn't read this?

[Indigo Heron]

Thank you, Emptyger, for reminding me.

Moderator, we need a general prod on everyone who hasn't posted on Day 28

Zazier, forget veerus. You don't have to listen to him - he has no credit in this game anyway. I for one am not interested in veerus' attempt to drag this game down into just another mafia game.

[Indigo Heron]

Moderator: Prod everyone who has not posted a move vote until now.

[Indigo Heron]

Because those people who have not posted a move vote are inactive. The ones who have, like me, are patiently waiting for them to post something corresponding to the move.

[Indigo Heron]

@Zazier: Und das?

[Indigo Heron]

I would've thought that with German and English possessing similar language structures, people would have an easier time learning German then French.

I tried learning French as well, but as it turns out, I really suck at it. It seems much better to admire that blasted language from afar.

[Indigo Heron]

Here. Waiting for one of the following to happen:
-The inactives to become active.
-The Move-hammer for Nxh7.
-The deadline to hit.

Or hopefully for someone to think things thru and go for g4.

Fat chance.

[Indigo Heron]

I smell the other scum partner amongst the two of you.

In any case, TCS, neither move is L-1, so not much to worry about. If you don't want to vote on a move, at least discuss and debate about Nxh7 v. g4, or throw out new moves if you think you see them.

[Indigo Heron]

*facepalms, muttering "Only human..." over and over again*

*recovers after 10 minutes*

I believe that gxf4 is not a good move. It's incredibly short-sighted, enough said.

Re5 isn't very good either, at least when I compare it to either Qd3 or Nxh7.

Qd3 Qf8 Nxh7 Kxh7 g4 Kh8 gxf5 Rc7 Rxa6 Bf6 Rf1 f3 and really, Black is screwed all over.

OR....

Nxh7 Bf8 Ng5 Rf6 gxf4 Rc7 Kc1 Rxc2 Kxc2 Qc8 Kb1 and Black is still screwed, but at least he goes down trading pieces.

I've yet to make up my mind, but I will. In the meantime, I beseech you to unvote and discuss the new moves first.

[Indigo Heron]

EBWOP: Whoops.

I believe that the Qf7 response has been covered by veerus today. Just check back.

[Indigo Heron]

Doesn't TCS (as well as anyone for that matter) ever read my previous posts?!

[Indigo Heron]

Black doesn't have a choice. Black's pieces are pretty passive, and White would have to be a moron to lose this game.

We're not looking at a materiel advantage right now. Nxh7 is a sacrifice, but we will solidify our position if we do so.

[Indigo Heron]

@Zazier: QFT. I banged my head on the table for the majority's idiocy and short-sightedness.

move: hxg5

No-brainer.

[Indigo Heron]

Even if the mod screwed up with the deadline votes, which it looks like he did, I completely fail to understand why this is such an enormous deal. We are going to win the chess game. Relax, play smart chess, and enjoy.

We have won, yes, but I want to win big. I want White to decisively beat Black.

@Veerus:

28. Nxh7 Kxh7 29. g4 Kh8 30. gxf5 Bf6 31. Kc1 Rf7 32. Rxa6 Qg7 33. Rf1 Rf8 34. Kb1 Bxd4

My notes. Black's best line against White's best line. If you wish to refute, do so.

[Indigo Heron]

move: Rg6

Pretty damn self-explanatory.

[Indigo Heron]

Rg6 is an obviously *awful* move. It doesn't accomplish anything, doesn't threaten anything. (It isn't even the best way to make a pointless attack on the bishop. Re5 would at least threaten the d pawn, not that it's not easy for black to defend both.)

Move: Qf5

We're up material and we no longer have a mating attack. It's time to trade queens.

What's wrong with Rg6? It threatens the bishop, and another pawn. Black cannot easily defend either, so it has to give one up. I'm going to go for the pawn.

Trade queens? You must be joking. If we do this right, we don't have to trade. Black will be forced to give up his queen just to stay in the game.

And we already have a mating attack. Why would you want to give that up? Materiel comes later.

[Indigo Heron]

Why not give us your input, and the hammer?

[Indigo Heron]

AA just hammered...but the discussion ought to continue. Since Rg6 is confirmed, anyway, Zazie, can you reveal your plan had we gone with Qf5?

[Indigo Heron]

Naturally, if White moves Rg6, threatening the bishop, Black naturally moves Bd8, which moves it out of harm's way, but more importantly, removes the threat of an attack on the king.

[Indigo Heron]

You think they will move Qe7 in response to Rg6? White simply moves Kd1, moving it out of harm's way.

[Indigo Heron]

You guys stilll aren't done, even though I largely ignored this for about a week?

[Indigo Heron]

This is straightforward.

Move: Qf5

[Indigo Heron]

I am only looking at two moves right now: Rhe1 and Rh5. Rhe1 looks nice though.

[Indigo Heron]

Hi.

I left for a church camp and stayed for 4 days. I am back now.

[Indigo Heron]

move: Rhe1

[Indigo Heron]

I am fine with R1e2.

move: R1e2.

[Indigo Heron]

Move: Re8.

This is pretty straight-forward.

[Indigo Heron]

I do not think that the trade is the best use of Black's resources. Hence, I do not think that Black will make the trade (not yet anyway).

[Indigo Heron]

What's so hard about it? We are going in for the kill.

[Indigo Heron]

34. Re8 Bg5+ 35. Kd3 fxe2 36. Rxg8+ Rxg8 37. Kxe2 Bc1 38. Qf6+ Rg7.

Now do you see it?

[Indigo Heron]

I don't think you're an incompetent moderator, for the record. I'm pretty indifferent towards you.

[Indigo Heron]

Wow...me and TCS are the only original players.

I like Qxd5+, but Kxe2 looks interesting.

Move: Kxe2

[Indigo Heron]

So now I am the only original member from the group that started.

[Indigo Heron]

Move: Kxe2

[Indigo Heron]

Move Count:
(2) Kxe2 - Thok, IH