Mini 686 - Chess Mafia (Done)
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Chess first. The more we mislynch, the less we are at an advantage against the mafia in the chess game. We have more people now, which should result in better play. We do have to remember though that we might have to start lynching a long time before the chess game is starting to look bad for us, as we still have to make moves if we lynch. But the thing is: I don't expect the chess game to look bad for us, because a consensus of more players usually gives better results than one of few players. Unless the mafia are some extremely good chess players and town sucks, we shouldn't worry about this.
Move: e4. It's just the best move and that's it.Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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Thanks, I got it now. As such, I think Nc3 is our best option, but if someone can convince me otherwise, just try.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:lol, I didn't see that there was a second page. Sorry to parrot indigo.
I definitely think we shouldnotmove Bc4... it's a super-weak move.
Lawrencelot: in chess, the point of the early going is generally to control the middle four squares of the board... a Bc4 doesn't really help us do that without something to support us. We're sticking that bishop out there without any support, and moreover impeding our own ability to develop queen side.
In response to your concerns about 2. ... Qa5, I think that black would be essentially wasting a move to do that. 3. c3 would make that a wasted move. And besides, what does black do after that?
unmove; move: Nc3Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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I didn't either, but I think CS wants to do it because it will protect a pawn on f4. But then why wouldn't we perform f4 first...Pesco47 wrote:I don't see black's knight going Rambo all by it's lonesome in the next move or two. I still don't fully understand g3, I won't ask.
Move f4
I'm willing to change to f4, it's like Goatrevolt says: if we want to do both f4 and Nf3, f4 should come first.Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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I still think Ng5 is best, although admittedly I did not think about castling. But if they castle there's a good follow-up. Here's what Ng5 does, I probably miss some moves black could do:
*chess tag removed*1. e4 c5
2. Nc3 Nc6
3. f4 e6
4. Nf3 f5
5. exf5 exf5
6. Qe2 Be7
7. Nd5 Nb4
8. Nxb4 cxb4
9. d4 Nf6
10. Ng5 Ne4*/chess tag removed*
We hit their knight, and if they hit our knight back we hit the pawn and there's still a pin.
*chess tag removed*1. e4 c5
2. Nc3 Nc6
3. f4 e6
4. Nf3 f5
5. exf5 exf5
6. Qe2 Be7
7. Nd5 Nb4
8. Nxb4 cxb4
9. d4 Nf6
10. Ng5 O-O*/chess tag removed*
We can play Qc4+ here, and our bishop is free to move and we can attack whatever we want, like the f5 pawn or their queen/rook with our horse. Or set up an attack on h7.
Wait, they can just move h6 as well. Hm, anyone got a solution to that?Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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Unmove, move: Qb5
Although what Pesco says is true, I've got a good followup for that last one. I don't think sharing it helps black, so:
*chess tag removed*1. e4 c5
2. Nc3 Nc6
3. f4 e6
4. Nf3 f5
5. exf5 exf5
6. Qe2 Be7
7. Nd5 Nb4
8. Nxb4 cxb4
9. d4 Nf6
10. Qb5, g6
11. Bd2, a6
12. Qe5 d6
13. Qe3 Ng4
14. Qb3 */chess tag removed*
Then black does something, and we might play Bb4 or move the other bishop.Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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We are not severely underdeveloped. We got a queen and a horse there, black only got a horse, and our bishops attack way more spaces than black's. And if we move the queen to Qe5 our right bishop has a whole lot of range, while moving her to Qc4 keeps her protected by our right bishop. If you want the right bishop to develop, why waste two moves to let it attack a pawn and 1 space instead of doing one move that keeps pressure on black and also allows the bishop to move freely?
Move: Qe5. As I said, I'm also willing to do Qc4. Btw, with so many people on the same side, it's hard to screw something up, so playing agressively is not a bad strategy.Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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Why not just take the pawn after Qe5?
*chess tag removed*
1. e4 c5
2. Nc3 Nc6
3. f4 e6
4. Nf3 f5
5. exf5 exf5
6. Qe2 Be7
7. Nd5 Nb4
8. Nxb4 cxb4
9. d4 Nf6
10. Qe5 O-O
11. Qxf5
*/chess tag removed*
After black's next move here, we'll most likely have to retreat with our queen, but that's no disaster as we're a pawn ahead.
Bd2, I don't know. It attacks a protected pawn, but it does allow us to castle.Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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Hm, I didn't think about this move for black, and I also forgot what we were doing. But I don't like d5. What if we do something else, and respond to b5/d5 by moving our queen to b3, and try to keep preventing black from castling? I don't know what this 'something else' would be though.Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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Yeah I was looking for preventing d5 in a different way (and then flee after the b5) but I don't think there is.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Allowing black to move d5 essentially defeats the purpose of moving Qc4.Lawrencelot wrote:Hm, I didn't think about this move for black, and I also forgot what we were doing. But I don't like d5. What if we do something else, and respond to b5/d5 by moving our queen to b3, and try to keep preventing black from castling? I don't know what this 'something else' would be though.Move d5Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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Unmove. I'm considering moving to b3 already. What would black do if we move our queen to b3? Develop something? They still can't castle then. And after that we could move our pawn or bishop to c4? Probably not a good plan, but someone please point out why. I'm trying to gain an advantage by hitting a pawn after black castles, or attacking the king from a4 with the queen before black castles.Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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If I'm correct, post 404 is the latest official one: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 43#1391043Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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*chess tag removed*SensFan wrote:*chess tag removed*
1. e4 c5
2. Nc3 Nc6
3. f4 e6
4. Nf3 f5
5. exf5 exf5
6. Qe2 Be7
7. Nd5 Nb4
8. Nxb4 cxb4
9. d4 Nf6
10. Qc4 a6
11. d5 O-O*/chess tag removed*
You just let his King out of the center.
1. e4 c5
2. Nc3 Nc6
3. f4 e6
4. Nf3 f5
5. exf5 exf5
6. Qe2 Be7
7. Nd5 Nb4
8. Nxb4 cxb4
9. d4 Nf6
10. Qc4 a6
11. d5 O-O
12. d6*/chess tag removed*Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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Qb3 still prevents black from castling. Not that they'd castle the next move anyway, but if they want to castle again they need to move the d pawn, in which case we might be able to play Qa4. We also give our right bishop more mobility after Qb3. Qd3 just gets stopped by g6, and if they wouldn't play that they could castle, and it chokes our own right bishop.Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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Did anyone yet respond to this? Does g6 not ruin Gd3? (yes or no will suffice)Lawrencelot wrote:Qb3 still prevents black from castling. Not that they'd castle the next move anyway, but if they want to castle again they need to move the d pawn, in which case we might be able to play Qa4. We also give our right bishop more mobility after Qb3. Qd3 just gets stopped by g6, and if they wouldn't play that they could castle, and it chokes our own right bishop.Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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Makes sense, but if g6 indeed ruins their pawn structure (which I'm not sure about but whatever), why not force them to play g6 by playing Qb3?veerus wrote:no.. because attacking that pawn is a secondary objective.. the primary objective is to move the queen out of the way into a position where it would be useful.. and technically g6 ruins the pawn structure on the kingside if black castles thereLeaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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Fos: veerus
I know for a fact that sirdanilot is way worse at chess than me, and do you see me contribute much? Besides the chess play, sirdanilot has contributed a lot, maybe the most of all people. I also did not expect this level of chess players so I kinda stayed back and supported the suggested moves that I think were the best. That being said, I think we should just play chess instead of voting. Everyone who votes someone is a risk for the town. We have enough time to start playing mafia if the situation becomes hopeless, it's not like a hopeless situation ends a chessgame in 2 turns.
I don't like moving our Queen away. Her pressure on the H7 spot should stay, and I don't think we should worry about our left bishop, a trade isn't disastrous. I'm all for an aggressive move like Ne5, but g3 looks good as well.Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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Qb3 attacks the b4 and d5 pawn. Sure they're protected, but that means the defenders of those pawns can't move. I don't see what Qe3 should accomplish, it's not like that knight is gonna panic and say 'oh if I move away that Queen can attack our bishop, I'll guess I'll stay here'Leaving mafiascum temporarily or not due to circumstances- Lawrencelot
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