Micro 1034 | Meet me on the Astral Plane | Game Over!

[HoldenGolden]

Oh Dkobba is posting now

Hiya

VOTE: Wright and Justice

I'm too full from Thanksgiving. Tired to eat human beings but failed due to 'ethical standards'....had to settle for ham and sweet yams. Sad.

Can we eliminate someone so I can feast on their body?

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler: Me right now

Ditto buckaroo so let's get down to business. Am I going to have to cannibalize you this game?

[HoldenGolden]

Is Andres spicy?

[HoldenGolden]

Nah they just have rolled town 20 times in a row on this site and we're just waiting on him to rand scum

That's just Gambler's Fallacy

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Andres

You person of a bitch I'm in

[HoldenGolden]

OK first things first

DONT CLAIM IF YOU HAVE A HOOD OR YOUR HOOD PARTNER UNLESS YOU ARE AT RISK OF ELIMINATION

Second of all - if you are the friendly water spirit or whatever GB has called the friendly neighbor this game - DONT PLAY LIKE YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SELF CLEAR - it is a bad strategy. Play to

roleswap

- and to the townies who have hoods -

BE OPEN TO ROLESWAP.

.
Third thing:

SORT IN YOUR HOOD IF YOU HAVE ONE.

Don't let it go to waste. Grill your hoodmate. You want to either be able to turn that shit into a masonry or find a scum within in. Don't let it go to waste. Don't make it obvious you have a hood either - make sure to mirror your pushes within the game too.
4th thing: THERE WILL BE A LOT OF CONVERSATION THAT YOU DONT SEE - so dont be alarmed that someone might have a read that seems TMI on 1 other person, or has seemingly jarring progression! It's just entirely possible they sorted within their hood! There are 4 hoods in this game - remember that!

dumping this for start of game c/p here

Town

Why?

I can see how you could get that, but want to hear your logic.

[HoldenGolden]

thats t3, regardless of alignment you're not getting much and his play is hard to parse. Easier to solve around him. I'd say tje best way of finding his alignment is via TMI

?
Why did you soft white knight them already if that's the case lmao?

[HoldenGolden]

thats t3, regardless of alignment you're not getting much and his play is hard to parse. Easier to solve around him. I'd say tje best way of finding his alignment is via TMI

?
Why did you soft white knight them already if that's the case lmao?

?
Im just warning you because t3 gets limmed in pretty much every game he is in that its not a conventional read

?

I get that, but it removed a way to read them besides TMI if they are scum potentially (i can go into this more, but maybe they will respond). Also...why not wait for me to start developing points on them in order to read me better too?

[HoldenGolden]

Why not wait? Im impatient as a player. I like to speak my mind.
I'd appreciate the

shade for what is just informimg you of the met

a of a difficult to read player to be dropped btw. I was trying to prevent a state where the conversation starts revolving around t3 and i dont think thats useful ever esp on d1.

Why are you discounting it as shade my lawyer friend?

Here's why I'm pointing it out. You know that T3 gets talked a lot due to their play style meaning it's NAI. I don't. Hypothically if I make a push on them, you would then get to see how I tonally handle it. Am I being reachy? Aggressive? Do I have no other reads? Or is it coming from some sort of townie mindset?

From what I remember you are a tonal player too, hence why I'm confused. Am I misremembering wrong? You seem to be gunning for the town leader role, which is fine, but you also imo restricting some info for the thread.

[HoldenGolden]

I think what I wrote makes sense. Was stuffing my mouth with cheese during it.

[HoldenGolden]

T3 is good at having consistent tone - I've evolved a bit in terms of what tells i use as reliable nowadays.

I just would rather not go down paths that i deem to be circular and NAI.
The way you are responding felt like you were trying to bait me into miswording something and using it as a gotcha so my b if that isnt the case. I tend to be an easy target for that as a

high emergy emotional player

Oh I remember

Nah it's because of the difference of approaches. That and it felt unnecessary from my pov which sent off vibes. If you don't mind though, could you hold off a bit from cutting off my questions d1? I typically ask the thread for stuff when I'm not sure or want to crowd source things.

Out of curiosity, what parts felt "baity"?

[HoldenGolden]

OK first things first

DONT CLAIM IF YOU HAVE A HOOD OR YOUR HOOD PARTNER UNLESS YOU ARE AT RISK OF ELIMINATION

Second of all - if you are the friendly water spirit or whatever GB has called the friendly neighbor this game - DONT PLAY LIKE YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SELF CLEAR - it is a bad strategy. Play to

roleswap

- and to the townies who have hoods -

BE OPEN TO ROLESWAP.

.
Third thing:

SORT IN YOUR HOOD IF YOU HAVE ONE.

Don't let it go to waste. Grill your hoodmate. You want to either be able to turn that shit into a masonry or find a scum within in. Don't let it go to waste. Don't make it obvious you have a hood either - make sure to mirror your pushes within the game too.
4th thing: THERE WILL BE A LOT OF CONVERSATION THAT YOU DONT SEE - so dont be alarmed that someone might have a read that seems TMI on 1 other person, or has seemingly jarring progression! It's just entirely possible they sorted within their hood! There are 4 hoods in this game - remember that!

dumping this for start of game c/p here

Town

Why?

I can see how you could get that, but want to hear your logic.

Would it be bad if I said "I have no idea, it just sounds towny"? Because that's where a good chunk of my reads come from.

I'm so bloody high anf drunk that this is fine.

Vibe be passed heretical

[HoldenGolden]

Wait....

We've played haven't we T3

I *THINK* you tried as scum and got KABOOM by da meta.

Hmmmm

Research!

Pedit: that makes no sense lawyer person.

[HoldenGolden]

Also the scum mollie i played against was very under the radar and this is the exact opposite for an entrance.

That makes more sense

[HoldenGolden]

Wait....

We've played haven't we T3

I *THINK* you tried as scum and got KABOOM by da meta.

Hmmmm

Research!

Pedit: that makes no sense lawyer person.

It makes sense to me - is all you gotta know.
Im basically adding a reasonable thought process for a townie there -> showing viability in them being town for others to see through my analysis.
Also im high too

Oh you frame's it as them just Ego posting and taking up an argument for the sake of bickering. At least my brain read it as that.

I shouldn't be poposting. I'm fine high, but cross is too much.

I can't find t3 game but I'm sure we did it

Oh content! How's your weed reads Wright besides pritatemofile

[HoldenGolden]

Order 66.

I actually have a light town spark on T3 for vibe reasoning point despite me disagreeing over that post being AI.

Why me town? Can follow IV read.

[HoldenGolden]

Brain says you speaking a lot townie
But also your depth in your posts and clear care in parsing what people say is +town

I also prefer to bin people bringing wim to the table in a positive way in the town pile :p

Wim?

Ok. Uhh that makes sense I guess.

I bs honest now.

I'm anxious about you. Gut feels werid. I need to read that old George badly branded game we played because I think I felt the same there here. We play diggers. No real base logically yet that is like makes sense.

Town read

Makes my dumb brain more anxious. Like rat.

Basically

Bleed town please

Like physically bleed and submit it for t3sting.

[HoldenGolden]

Fuck

[HoldenGolden]

I'm leaving.

That post is bad.

I'll sleep on vibes. I feel I'm just being distracting.

Be free olayers! Chat!

[HoldenGolden]

Mwah to the Bailey god

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler: FM post spoilered for length of quote chain

Why not wait? Im impatient as a player. I like to speak my mind.
I'd appreciate the shade for what is just informimg you of the meta of a difficult to read player to be dropped btw. I was trying to prevent a state where the conversation starts revolving around t3 and i dont think thats useful ever esp on d1.

So what you are trying to do is steer the game. Right?

Yes I am - that is my MO as town pretty much always especially in setups I know and playerlists I feel comfortable with.

Can you explain why you think outting the FN is acceptable on d1? Thats what you want according to your push here.
I never suggested.that hoods never out but that people actually push their hoodmate if they think something is up.
You're not reading my whole post amd just looking at small specific points.
Again - i can happily link you to me treating this setup the same last year *as town*
And nobody here has played with me that time so i could have pretended that game doesnt exist and push hoods to claim.

1. You try to steer the game as town, I'll give you that. You did it in the game I played with you. But...who do you know in this playerlist? Because you asked

me

in our hood, but never answered yourself. And apparently, you do know a lot of people.

What an interesting thing to refrain from sharing, especially since you are flexing who you do know in the game threa

d. Also...were you the friendly neighbor in that game? I haven't looked it up.
2. Okay. Well I am pushing you.
3. What post are you referring to?
4. There is a difference in self meta as scum, compared to self meta as town. It is an unconscious tell, where people focus more on

what

they did, and not

why

they did it or the strategy and thinking process behind it.
5. Why would you refer to the game exclusively as town, and not as scum? As scum, you have 1 game as town where you used a specific strategy and won it. It would be silly not to self-vet this as scum.

And you are not silly, from my limited experience. You played fantastic as town, I can see you easily suggesting this strategy as scum

.

And you have pinged all over the place in our hood, I mean, where do I start

.

Wright and Justice vs FM feels like SvS ironically to me

This may be an absolutely dumb ass question, but if ya are in a hood, why are you also directly arguing with eachother here? It be better spent trying to illustrate to us why the other member is scum instead of taking pot shots at eachother. Not to mention also just lead to more interactions.

Anyways back to the SvS thing. The whole conversation has an artifical vibe of hostility around it. I fully can accept that a TvT interaction this early in D1 could be anger filled too, but the way its being done here doesn't collide with that. Normally when TvT's fight its more explosive and natural. Here, it seems more passive and forced from the lens of an outsider to their pt.

For example with the quoted post, i can agree with some of the logic (4, 5) but its presented with that tonal issues as seen in the colored sections(apologies to anyone colorblind):

Red: vague language; insulates that it's 'interesting' yet what does that even mean in the context of leading the thread? I feel if you think their withdraw from stating who they played with is scummy, then that has some implications regarding their interactions with people like T3. Yet that isn't explored in favor of just prodding that it's strange.

Green: completely throw away part of message. Virtue signals scummy behavior to the rest of us without actual contextulzing it. Tonal wise is in contrast to the thing above it in yellow. Yellow comment is pushing the narrative that Wright is clever enough to munch off past game credibility, yet green shows a carelessness implied from slipping a bunch in their pt. Therefore I don't really follow what picture FM has overall.


Obviously if their hood claim is true, which seems a given, then it can really only be TvS. I quoted FM, but I have some of the same issues with Wright and Justice too. Just don't have time rn to go in detail.

Thoughts? Is my metric wrong or does it make sense?

[HoldenGolden]

I have a thought

I don't quite understand how you got from

Wright and Justice vs FM feels like SvS ironically to me

to

Obviously if their hood claim is true, which seems a given, then it can really only be TvS

Can you explain again being less verbose this time please?

Ah yeah a result of waking up. Here:

>Their interaction has the characteristics I prescribed to an SvS interaction tonally, and does not feel like an TvT interaction.

>They clearly are in a hood together as par their own wording.

>therefore according to the rules of the game the interaction is either TvS or TvT. Since I don't feel it's TvT, it's TvS in my eyes.

[HoldenGolden]

Hence why I said ironically as it's impossible for them to be scum together if they are in a hood

[HoldenGolden]

I drove for 6 hours nearly straight. Might not post tonight. Depends on shower.

[HoldenGolden]

I'm going to step away from reading Wright/Molie since I'm going back and forth and having WiFom issues with them and stuff like thread reaction (I can explain this but it would be a giant wishy washy blob so meh)

Reading through those that posted, I don't really like IV. While I understand that IV plays by PoE, their posts feel extraordinary uncommitted. Below is a subsection from their ISO with bold highlighting parts I deemed to be unwilling to commit.

Spoiler:

I have zero read on koba slot

pirate mollie like maybe slightly +town

maybe not

Holden

seems alright maybe a little performative

I’m not convinced that FN is like that essential this game to protect and withhold neighbor info and solvy stuff

but I’ll go along with whatever ppl think

hang in there gamma

yeah I just said it

seemed performative lool didn’t say it’s not in townrange but thanks for bringing up the meta nugget

okay so gamma signs with justice every time? Is that how I tell you two apart?

that's how I intend this to work, yeah

-Justice

ookay thanks so I will assume any non signed post is koba then. And unrelatedly I’m aware activity isn’t really that AI for you

So whats scummy from me then?
Where did you get the idea that activity isn't AI for me - we havent played together - but ive spectated 1 game where you were scum and replaced into 1 after youve already flipped scum.
So whats up?

i was talking to gamma in that post and ive played with both scum and town gamma - he was lurky and active as both alignments at various times. that's all im saying

im voting your slot rn bc i can tbh and i don't really have any read on you rn despite how much you've posted already. your insistence on me playing to my scum meta is rly weird too and having a confident read on me at this stage is bizarre especially when it's wrong

note that bizarre/wrong doesn't mean i think you're scum necessarily just worth parking my vote here rn, also im more of a PoE type player anyway so not that many things scum ping me, etc etc

*Entire post reduces impact of the read

I kinda think u are town because you have been very straight-up with everything you say idk it’s a weak tonal read that I got in the last like 15 seconds.

I didn’t really have a read on u before that but just noting it here that I had this thought before I go

No the fuck i didnt.
I assumed it was a true claim becuase im autistic and took it at face value
Fuck you if you think i thought it was a joke becsuse it was *not* clearly a joke to me

I was considering your hood real.and my fucking push on you askkng why you outted it wjth a null read on andees should be proof that was my thought process not whatever garbage about "fishing hood status".

Would you not fucking think its scummy for a neighbor to claim with anything above a scumread? Because i do.

im not sure if there’s a tonal tell here and in which direction if so

In these posts, it feels IV is purposely leaving the door open on a lot of their points. 162 in particular rubbed me the wrong way as it gives multiple reasons to back out of the read established in 161 which ALREADY talked in length about why their voting. As such, 162 feels redundant and displays a type of worry about appearing 'correct' that I associate with scum. In other words:

IV seemed more concerned on justfiying the vote and providing a way out rather then committing to it.

this is additionally alarming since the point was to apply pressure which is undermined by the rest of the posts.

Given how consistent this tone is as well, I am scumleaning them.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: innocentvillager

IV: can you give me a working PoE of your headstate right now? Please try to inculde some rationale with it. If it is truely wishywashy, then please give me details upon why it's like that to you.

[HoldenGolden]

(Also I have written Dysgraphia so I sympathize mollie)

I want to hear T3's TvT point, but I actually like their posts still.

The fact I can't recall any more player posts beyond that group is alarming ahhhh.

[HoldenGolden]

This may also be a really dumb question but:

sure i will play along with the don't claim hoods thing i don't see a good reason not to

Ok lets approach this differently - why do you think you're *not* playing to scum.meta?

i don't really think im readable yet ive had some shitposts and argued about some things i think are just not true, both of which are things i do as both alignments

and it's helpful to know early confidence is a thing for you

question for u how does scum!you approach this day different from what you're doing here? i get the sense that you're a powerwolf type player that wants to control everything early

but i haven't played with u so idrk

.

@Wright and Justice, have only one of your heads played with IV before or have neither played with them? I beleive Dokkba (I butcher names) is the one who has, but the quote post seems to be replying to that side of the Hydra so I'm confused a bit.

That's what happens when you are a donkey sheriff

[HoldenGolden]

Hmm

FaceBone I have two requests for when you catch up:

1) What's your read on T3 (if you got one)
2) What's your take on Mollie trying to branch out from the interactions with Wright?

Bonus) Does it hurt your soul knowing your name abbreviated is FB such as Facebook? Do you ever stuff your voodoo head in a textbook to get along with that accursed social platform?

[HoldenGolden]

atp i think i'm going to ignore the mollie wj conflict because i think they are t/t

I think it's a personality/playstyle clash paired with the fact that they are in a hood.

How is the first part TvT indicative though? What about the clash screams town vs town instead of one of them being scum and catching the other off guard?

in 161 i explained why i was voting koba which is essentially what they were asking. i found those things weird but not necessarily scummy and i wanted to make that clear in 162. i wasn't really voting for the sake of applying pressure

i can understand you disliking my wishiwashiness, but that's just me as a player as both alignments.

im not very confident on a lot of things especially early on which is in stark contrast to a player like koba.

ive played with gamma but not really with koba.

It's more that you are being wishy-washy AND setting up ways to get out of stuff. That's why it rubs me wrong.

Could you elaborate about your feelings about T3?

[HoldenGolden]

W+J strong start, Koba doing the usual, but then immediately covering Gammas ass

even though Gamma posted

My bad, I thought gamma had posted, they hadn't.

.
Sus.

Pirate Mollie amazing entry

Typical facebones entry, and typical response to facebones entry...

Bad response to mollie from WJ

WJ flipped signers? nope, me being dumb

Golden gun beholden.

Koba wanting me to town tell 18 hours into a game where I don't towntell in any game makes me lol.

WJ/PM is TvsS. Knowing my Bias on Koba is here I don't want to fall into my usual pit of just confbiasing them as scum... PM makes an amazing post though.

Shame about the misgendering >.<

IV is someone I need to look at.

Oh personal attack time... and it gets better.

Auties rise up.

And of course, give an inch and someone will take the whole damned mile...



And thats the quick notes version because I don't have the energy or medication to do my usual

God I wish I had a golden gun. Though I don't have good track records when it comes to being a Vig.

Why is IV someone you want to look at in particular?

Just got home from my boyfriends house.
I'm gonna be relaxing because my social energy is drained, saw alice elitelling so im gonna keep my vote here.
-wright

But but....we could make 5 more pages!!

[HoldenGolden]

Dkoba just made a post in our hood where it was clear that his priorities are special/power role hunting over scumhunting. Like it is really freaking obvious.

Can you elaborate? Are they trying to hunt the FN? Or just hood sort?

[HoldenGolden]

...

I'm getting drunk on fireball to kill my anxiety

Then I'm staging one of those relationship talk show mixed with my southern sailor mouth for you two because I it's 2 days~ in.

Pedit: do you have something besides Meta to think IV is town Wright? I ask because IV seems to have a good grasp on their meta, so I don't really consider it worthwhile to prove or disprove their alignment. Explain why the though process in this environment alone is towny.

[HoldenGolden]

Koba let me level with ya cause four shots of whiskey makes me want to KASLAM everyone.

I admire your bash stance but it's hard to follow and take you seriously when you constantly rattling off about how someone is discrediting you and ahit. It bloats your posts and adds more fuel to the flame for any would be scum read if your town. I ~think~ me and you even had something similar to you and mollie in brass harald but I can't fucking remember.
I just remember us fighting for a good while Over the tonal beats and stuff though my weak ass bitch ass is a sucker for good town atmosphere and I think I gave up.

Humble up my friend. You don't need harshness to be the leader.

At least can we both agree and actually stick with the no shit talking in the thread cause? If one of ya makes a bad red on another, let someone KASLAMM them and get us more info.

Anyways town atmosphere. We need that fucking shit. We can keep entertaining the shitshw, but we are sorely lacking in content outside of it. It's why for example Wright is prodding in the afks.

Anyfuckingways: I'm wifoming between the two being TvT or TvS due to how the thread was lax during that time. If it's TvS, the partner should of been pushing pressing off but no one did? So either it's TvS with second partner afk or it's TvT since scum is fine with the shit show.

Idk. I want to smoke

(This isn't meant to be mean or condensansing. I'm just noticing I feel irrated already and that's a bad sign)

[HoldenGolden]

I need more substances

[HoldenGolden]

atp i think i'm going to ignore the mollie wj conflict because i think they are t/t

I think it's a personality/playstyle clash paired with the fact that they are in a hood.

How is the first part TvT indicative though? What about the clash screams town vs town instead of one of them being scum and catching the other off guard?

in 161 i explained why i was voting koba which is essentially what they were asking. i found those things weird but not necessarily scummy and i wanted to make that clear in 162. i wasn't really voting for the sake of applying pressure

i can understand you disliking my wishiwashiness, but that's just me as a player as both alignments.

im not very confident on a lot of things especially early on which is in stark contrast to a player like koba.

ive played with gamma but not really with koba.

It's more that you are being wishy-washy AND setting up ways to get out of stuff. That's why it rubs me wrong.

Could you elaborate about your feelings about T3?

I may have used the wrong phrasing. Idon't necessarily think they are both town, just that the points made in the conflict are not AI.

Fair.

Can I trouble you to give your feelings on them besides the conflict. Reading your iso it seems you suspect Wright. Is that still true?

[HoldenGolden]

re pirate's 251 uh i think you again inferred some more stuff about my post than i was going for myself? i simply noted those two koba outburst posts as posts i probalby should've been getting a tonal read from but wasn't sure if it's actually town indicative or scum indicative.

can you explain what you found towny about it?

maybe you'll convince me

wrt the italicized and the bold:

are you asking me if I think

your

post is townie or W&J's?

I missed those two posts and I am taking a step back because I have grown to understand that neurodivergents have a completely different set of scumtells than neurotypicals. I misread Titus for years because of this, and it caused a lot of pain on both parts. We worked through it and now she is my favorite player and we send each other gifts.

Again, I am not abandoning my read. I am just shelving it for now.

The reason I am shelving it is because I want to think about it and I am waiting for other people to post.

I kind of want to vote Flea, 2 posts and 1 is a prod dodge. At this point I am wanting to lim one of the lurkers

.

I thought you loved me Dokba

(Above is just random post I found where priate give something else then you guys. I'm quoting mainly to show that more needs to be said then general blanket statements that discredits both of you)

Anyways since 2v1 is your issue private mollie, takk with me. What do you think of Flea's last posts? Anyone else sparks your timbers?

[HoldenGolden]

There's issues with the flea read but mean.

Also im a lightweight but hold my liquor and weed quite well despite being 5ft 8 and only 135 lbs.

Twink non binary for the win

Pedit: hedge posts like the one I pointed out?

[HoldenGolden]

Eariler you were agreeing with IV that their meta covered stuff like that unless I'm not remembering. Is it mainly the connection that drives you to render them scummy or are you np longer thinking that's within the relem of town IV?

Pedit: I agree with the association.

[HoldenGolden]

Didn't find enough time to catch up, but from few first pages I think Wright and Justice is scum.
1) discussing mechanics and providing optimal strategy is a cheap way to get towncred, you don't need to do reads and probably people wouldn't reveal their hoods anyway. T3 got baited for that.
2) self-meta thing is something scummy as wellg
, I definitely can see Kobba trying to replicate the same style as scum.
If it worked as town why wouldn't it work as scum.

Also Mollie revealing their hood is quite controversial which usually comes from town as you can never know how town will react to that.

Mollie, T3 - town
Wright and Justice - scum

Will read the rest of the thread tomorrow. Probably I'm quite behind.

1) "could be scum" is a shit reason. You are accusing me that I would never do that as town(which is impossible as a) I did it in a previous iteration of this setup, b) I am town this game) so nice try alice
2) I self meta on the regular as town. Wanna get dunked on? I refuse to talk about self meta as *scum* because it makes it harder for me actually. A conclusion with no basis in fact.

Take a shot and reread it.

Alice: why is 1) scum lean and not NAI? That logic only makes sense if you come from it with the notion that they are scum only. Show me why it's AI.

[HoldenGolden]

Why do they have to refute it tho?

Have they ever stated they townlean IV?

[HoldenGolden]

Mate I don't do the bloody metas. Mine alone makes a compelling case not to

Let's give Mollie some time to respond and reply. I beleive you already made that point before, so giving each other time to develop new thoughts will be beneficial.

Besides it will be nice as an outsider to have points generated in the thread rather then the PT to go off of since we don't have murky optics.

Why did Gamma say T3 was town?

[HoldenGolden]

Actually I'm kinda confused so entertain me dear Wright.

You seem to be using meta a lot. This is fine despite my gripes with it. Have you considered mine at all in conjuction with your read?

I beleive I'm the only one so far that you haven't mentioned any past history (I have theories why), so I'm curious.

Also thanks for the T3 bit. I agree the read on IV is weak though the time it was given it makes sense? Again would like to see Mollie renewed stance on it.

[HoldenGolden]

Oh would be protown play to stop posting for an hour and allow other interaction to occur.

I am one person trying to post, and I can't keep up with both of you spamming the thread.

Spoiler:

https://m.imgur.com/eOeSxzz

Its not woeking wirh img tag so please click it

Look at me mollie, I am the captain right now.

Don't worry about the lawyers. I'm your counter lawyer. Confide in me. Talk to me. Don't worry about them right now and just come blabber to me about the game. I want to know things. Many things!

[HoldenGolden]

Actually I'm kinda confused so entertain me dear Wright.

You seem to be using meta a lot. This is fine despite my gripes with it. Have you considered mine at all in conjuction with your read?

I beleive I'm the only one so far that you haven't mentioned any past history (I have theories why), so I'm curious.

Also thanks for the T3 bit. I agree the read on IV is weak though the time it was given it makes sense? Again would like to see Mollie renewed stance on it.

Yes meta from brass played a part in my initial townlean on you.

...

Have you bother to look at my scum meta...? Lmao

[HoldenGolden]

WAIT UR PROFILE PIC IS A HORSE WTF I THOUGHT IT WAS A GORILLA

It's a donkey sheriff.

Hence why I refer to myself as donkey sheriff

Pedit: fair.

[HoldenGolden]

re pirate's 251 uh i think you again inferred some more stuff about my post than i was going for myself? i simply noted those two koba outburst posts as posts i probalby should've been getting a tonal read from but wasn't sure if it's actually town indicative or scum indicative.

can you explain what you found towny about it?

maybe you'll convince me

wrt the italicized and the bold:

are you asking me if I think

your

post is townie or W&J's?

I missed those two posts and I am taking a step back because I have grown to understand that neurodivergents have a completely different set of scumtells than neurotypicals. I misread Titus for years because of this, and it caused a lot of pain on both parts. We worked through it and now she is my favorite player and we send each other gifts.

Again, I am not abandoning my read. I am just shelving it for now.

The reason I am shelving it is because I want to think about it and I am waiting for other people to post.

I kind of want to vote Flea, 2 posts and 1 is a prod dodge. At this point I am wanting to lim one of the lurkers

.

I thought you loved me Dokba

(Above is just random post I found where priate give something else then you guys. I'm quoting mainly to show that more needs to be said then general blanket statements that discredits both of you)

Anyways since 2v1 is your issue private mollie, takk with me. What do you think of Flea's last posts? Anyone else sparks your timbers?

It is hard to get reads and respond thoughtfully to the thread, when W&J keeps spamming it. I am trying to be selective in my responses, because I am one 1 person responding to what feels like 20. I seriously need them to shut up for a minute.

I don't know! Gun to my head I would say town, but it isn't a ride or die. On a scale of 1 to 10, I would give that read a 2, with confidence. I will have to examine my bias in that they thought I had an amazing entrance, and I know I am susceptible to flattery.

What are your thoughts on other players thus far?

Then focus on me, take your time, and reply to our dialogs.

Treat it as they don't exist for 24 hours. It may be hard, but we will get more done that way. If nothing happens, we'll, you guys got 6 days to resume battle >:)

Id like if you use this oppertunity to formulate a good IV read. I'm interested in it because that's who I'm pushing, and your hood friend is interested in it too for other reasons that do not matter such much right now.

I've kinda stated my feelings on players throughout my posts but so far the tldr looks like:

IV: scum lean
You and WrightJustice: bundled trouble.
T3: townvibes
Flea: gut vibe town which I'm too drunk to deeply explain.

(Andrea's | Alice | facebone) are all moot. I have thoughts on some, but not enough to develop anything.

[HoldenGolden]

Not anymore. Koba’s point about how they are only high post count when town is true and even if that is untrue, that kind of observation often comes from town.

Then may I ask who are your suspects right now?

I think you said IV long ago but my reading comprehension is shut rn

I may pass out soo

[HoldenGolden]

I've been drinking more and playing darkest dungeon.

IV why are u raging? You seemed to understand where I personally was comingfro.. Earl. Why I'd it suddenly awful ?

[HoldenGolden]

in 161 i explained why i was voting koba which is essentially what they were asking. i found those things weird but not necessarily scummy and i wanted to make that clear in 162. i wasn't really voting for the sake of applying pressure

i can understand you disliking my wishiwashiness, but that's just me as a player as both alignments. im not very confident on a lot of things especially early on which is in stark contrast to a player like koba.

ive played with gamma but not really with koba.

the point of my vote wasn't really specifically to apply pressure, im not sure why you think that was the primary goal. i just wanted to have my vote somewhere while i talked to them

as for my current reads, no townreads and no scumleans. i think Holden and pirate are townleans. T3 im not sure but maybe slight townlean but im going to sort this slot as it goes on. wright is still pretty null for me. i don't have any opinion on anyone else

I'm not going to explain all these reads but if you want a specific one i can go more into it.

Like I don't get how we gotta her

I just want to play dam. Mafia

[HoldenGolden]

I understand that people think wishiwashiness is a scumtell but I am telling you that is menas both alignments and koba thinks it’s a lockdown read on my case

No offense to Kobba, but they think all their cases are slam dunks.

(I admire their confidence)

Do you think they are scum piggybacking off me or townboiiiiii

[HoldenGolden]

I'm aware there are posts addres to me but span short

Middle of boss fight

[HoldenGolden]

I don't like your list.

If you want to engage with me and determine my alignment, why are you not addressing the points that I have made against W&J, to see where I am coming from? I don't even know what your read on them is.

It seems you are trying to rushedly townbin us, with the early TvT assessment and the reiterative post here, and I am trying to weigh that in.

I think you may be misrememebring some stuff. I was the one who first claimed it was TvS then branched out from there.

Anyhow

Your two bundled together because of thread dynamics. I've epxlained it eariler, but I find the lieu of outside counterpushing to nudge it to TvT. IV was the only person that attempted to engage in a serious manner but backed away. It's a bit faulty because of the less active people, but I did notice it. Hence why I'm trying to push out conversations elsewhere.

As for why indivual reads and why I don't sort you two outside of the conflict: I can't read Dokkba for shit. Everything they post is scummy to me until I realize who it's coming from. It's hard for me to actively read through Dkooba because it's the inverse of how I beleive town should play. If I didn't know their playstyle, I'd be all over them. It's why I've been trying to ENCOURGE THEM TO LOOK AT OTHER PEIPLE because I know what the town!Wright death tunnel is mike

As for you, I've actually waxed and waned a bit. I didn't like you when I pointed out the TvS comment but your intial parley post felt townie. Then it all went to shit when it spewed back up and I'm mixed. Hence why I'm also interested in talking to you directly.

Honestly if I was a day vig I would shoot into you two right now shamelessly. You should see my hand written notes before I turned to ole Jack.


Also i started typing something about IV but my memoey is bad so idk what it was but hete is what i wrote: Unlike Dokkba, while I see the association, I'm not really voting due to it. I don't care to until there's a red flip.

[HoldenGolden]

UNVOTE: innocnetvilager
if koba keeps needling me like this I’m re self voting but for now I’m just going to pray I’m less tilted about this game tomorrow. I just can’t when people get overconfident about me being scum for dumb reasons

Despite my read, sending good vibes assuming you are town

(I tired making that sound nicer and it failed.

[HoldenGolden]

I'm not functional

Diamas died due to bullshit crit

Imma prob take another shot and pass out.

I saw your reply to my post IV and I'll get to it tomorrow if that's oKi

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler: FM post spoilered for length of quote chain

Why not wait? Im impatient as a player. I like to speak my mind.
I'd appreciate the shade for what is just informimg you of the meta of a difficult to read player to be dropped btw. I was trying to prevent a state where the conversation starts revolving around t3 and i dont think thats useful ever esp on d1.

So what you are trying to do is steer the game. Right?

Yes I am - that is my MO as town pretty much always especially in setups I know and playerlists I feel comfortable with.

Can you explain why you think outting the FN is acceptable on d1? Thats what you want according to your push here.
I never suggested.that hoods never out but that people actually push their hoodmate if they think something is up.
You're not reading my whole post amd just looking at small specific points.
Again - i can happily link you to me treating this setup the same last year *as town*
And nobody here has played with me that time so i could have pretended that game doesnt exist and push hoods to claim.

1. You try to steer the game as town, I'll give you that. You did it in the game I played with you. But...who do you know in this playerlist? Because you asked

me

in our hood, but never answered yourself. And apparently, you do know a lot of people.

What an interesting thing to refrain from sharing, especially since you are flexing who you do know in the game threa

d. Also...were you the friendly neighbor in that game? I haven't looked it up.
2. Okay. Well I am pushing you.
3. What post are you referring to?
4. There is a difference in self meta as scum, compared to self meta as town. It is an unconscious tell, where people focus more on

what

they did, and not

why

they did it or the strategy and thinking process behind it.
5. Why would you refer to the game exclusively as town, and not as scum? As scum, you have 1 game as town where you used a specific strategy and won it. It would be silly not to self-vet this as scum.

And you are not silly, from my limited experience. You played fantastic as town, I can see you easily suggesting this strategy as scum

.

And you have pinged all over the place in our hood, I mean, where do I start

.

Wright and Justice vs FM feels like SvS ironically to me

This may be an absolutely dumb ass question, but if ya are in a hood, why are you also directly arguing with eachother here? It be better spent trying to illustrate to us why the other member is scum instead of taking pot shots at eachother. Not to mention also just lead to more interactions.

Anyways back to the SvS thing. The whole conversation has an artifical vibe of hostility around it. I fully can accept that a TvT interaction this early in D1 could be anger filled too, but the way its being done here doesn't collide with that. Normally when TvT's fight its more explosive and natural. Here, it seems more passive and forced from the lens of an outsider to their pt.

For example with the quoted post, i can agree with some of the logic (4, 5) but its presented with that tonal issues as seen in the colored sections(apologies to anyone colorblind):

Red: vague language; insulates that it's 'interesting' yet what does that even mean in the context of leading the thread? I feel if you think their withdraw from stating who they played with is scummy, then that has some implications regarding their interactions with people like T3. Yet that isn't explored in favor of just prodding that it's strange.

Green: completely throw away part of message. Virtue signals scummy behavior to the rest of us without actual contextulzing it. Tonal wise is in contrast to the thing above it in yellow. Yellow comment is pushing the narrative that Wright is clever enough to munch off past game credibility, yet green shows a carelessness implied from slipping a bunch in their pt. Therefore I don't really follow what picture FM has overall.


Obviously if their hood claim is true, which seems a given, then it can really only be TvS. I quoted FM, but I have some of the same issues with Wright and Justice too. Just don't have time rn to go in detail.

Thoughts? Is my metric wrong or does it make sense?

I have a thought

I don't quite understand how you got from

Wright and Justice vs FM feels like SvS ironically to me

to

Obviously if their hood claim is true, which seems a given, then it can really only be TvS

Can you explain again being less verbose this time please?

Ah yeah a result of waking up. Here:

>Their interaction has the characteristics I prescribed to an SvS interaction tonally, and does not feel like an TvT interaction.

>They clearly are in a hood together as par their own wording.

>therefore according to the rules of the game the interaction is either TvS or TvT. Since I don't feel it's TvT, it's TvS in my eyes.

I'm going to step away from reading Wright/Molie since I'm going back and forth and having WiFom issues with them and stuff like thread reaction (I can explain this but it would be a giant wishy washy blob so meh)

Reading through those that posted, I don't really like IV. While I understand that IV plays by PoE, their posts feel extraordinary uncommitted. Below is a subsection from their ISO with bold highlighting parts I deemed to be unwilling to commit.

Spoiler:

I have zero read on koba slot

pirate mollie like maybe slightly +town

maybe not

Holden

seems alright maybe a little performative

I’m not convinced that FN is like that essential this game to protect and withhold neighbor info and solvy stuff

but I’ll go along with whatever ppl think

hang in there gamma

yeah I just said it

seemed performative lool didn’t say it’s not in townrange but thanks for bringing up the meta nugget

okay so gamma signs with justice every time? Is that how I tell you two apart?

that's how I intend this to work, yeah

-Justice

ookay thanks so I will assume any non signed post is koba then. And unrelatedly I’m aware activity isn’t really that AI for you

So whats scummy from me then?
Where did you get the idea that activity isn't AI for me - we havent played together - but ive spectated 1 game where you were scum and replaced into 1 after youve already flipped scum.
So whats up?

i was talking to gamma in that post and ive played with both scum and town gamma - he was lurky and active as both alignments at various times. that's all im saying

im voting your slot rn bc i can tbh and i don't really have any read on you rn despite how much you've posted already. your insistence on me playing to my scum meta is rly weird too and having a confident read on me at this stage is bizarre especially when it's wrong

note that bizarre/wrong doesn't mean i think you're scum necessarily just worth parking my vote here rn, also im more of a PoE type player anyway so not that many things scum ping me, etc etc

*Entire post reduces impact of the read

I kinda think u are town because you have been very straight-up with everything you say idk it’s a weak tonal read that I got in the last like 15 seconds.

I didn’t really have a read on u before that but just noting it here that I had this thought before I go

No the fuck i didnt.
I assumed it was a true claim becuase im autistic and took it at face value
Fuck you if you think i thought it was a joke becsuse it was *not* clearly a joke to me

I was considering your hood real.and my fucking push on you askkng why you outted it wjth a null read on andees should be proof that was my thought process not whatever garbage about "fishing hood status".

Would you not fucking think its scummy for a neighbor to claim with anything above a scumread? Because i do.

im not sure if there’s a tonal tell here and in which direction if so

In these posts, it feels IV is purposely leaving the door open on a lot of their points. 162 in particular rubbed me the wrong way as it gives multiple reasons to back out of the read established in 161 which ALREADY talked in length about why their voting. As such, 162 feels redundant and displays a type of worry about appearing 'correct' that I associate with scum. In other words:

IV seemed more concerned on justfiying the vote and providing a way out rather then committing to it.

this is additionally alarming since the point was to apply pressure which is undermined by the rest of the posts.

Given how consistent this tone is as well, I am scumleaning them.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: innocentvillager

IV: can you give me a working PoE of your headstate right now? Please try to inculde some rationale with it. If it is truely wishywashy, then please give me details upon why it's like that to you.

(Also I have written Dysgraphia so I sympathize mollie)

I want to hear T3's TvT point, but I actually like their posts still.

The fact I can't recall any more player posts beyond that group is alarming ahhhh.

Koba let me level with ya cause four shots of whiskey makes me want to KASLAM everyone.

I admire your bash stance but it's hard to follow and take you seriously when you constantly rattling off about how someone is discrediting you and ahit. It bloats your posts and adds more fuel to the flame for any would be scum read if your town. I ~think~ me and you even had something similar to you and mollie in brass harald but I can't fucking remember.
I just remember us fighting for a good while Over the tonal beats and stuff though my weak ass bitch ass is a sucker for good town atmosphere and I think I gave up.

Humble up my friend. You don't need harshness to be the leader.

At least can we both agree and actually stick with the no shit talking in the thread cause? If one of ya makes a bad red on another, let someone KASLAMM them and get us more info.

Anyways town atmosphere. We need that fucking shit. We can keep entertaining the shitshw, but we are sorely lacking in content outside of it. It's why for example Wright is prodding in the afks.

Anyfuckingways: I'm wifoming between the two being TvT or TvS due to how the thread was lax during that time. If it's TvS, the partner should of been pushing pressing off but no one did? So either it's TvS with second partner afk or it's TvT since scum is fine with the shit show.

Idk. I want to smoke

(This isn't meant to be mean or condensansing. I'm just noticing I feel irrated already and that's a bad sign)

This is pretty much all the posts I've spoke about it. The post you are referring too may of been 314 but I thought you were talking about 122 where I first actually made the claim

[HoldenGolden]

I took the day off yesterday to relax and play Hades and Hellish Quart. Both are fun games on sale right now on steam.

I suggest people do the same to rejunivate themselves. Be more on after morning classes (making this just so mods don't have to bother with a prod

[HoldenGolden]

Speakth the Dark Twink One's name and They shall arise.

I did find Holden's comment about Facebones abbreviating to be funny though. My absolute favorite post in the entire thread so far <3. It would make my heart sing if I could get a townread on them.

"Certification of Towniness:

I hereby declare HoldenGolden the Greeniest Donkey Sheriff around for his shitty humor and ugly mule face.

Signed Ex List Mod Micc"

There, you got a townread on me. Totally legit!

I'm riding bus home from classes so we can tango more while I catch up, though I did want to remind you that the post you bookmarked didn't actually call it TvT. I called it TvS. I believe due to everything (and I recall the bbcode fucking up) you might of missed me clearing that by quote-linking my progression in a post two days ago. Unless I'm being daft and misremembering.

[HoldenGolden]

This will be just a post breaking down anything I found interesting. Spoilered only because I want to keep thread clean. Questions within are addressed to @Alicem @Mollie, and @WJ (W)

Spoiler:

Didn't find enough time to catch up, but from few first pages I think Wright and Justice is scum.
1) discussing mechanics and providing optimal strategy is a cheap way to get towncred, you don't need to do reads and probably people wouldn't reveal their hoods anyway. T3 got baited for that.
2) self-meta thing is something scummy as wellg
, I definitely can see Kobba trying to replicate the same style as scum.
If it worked as town why wouldn't it work as scum.

Also Mollie revealing their hood is quite controversial which usually comes from town as you can never know how town will react to that.

Mollie, T3 - town
Wright and Justice - scum

Will read the rest of the thread tomorrow. Probably I'm quite behind.

1) "could be scum" is a shit reason. You are accusing me that I would never do that as town(which is impossible as a) I did it in a previous iteration of this setup, b) I am town this game) so nice try alice
2) I self meta on the regular as town. Wanna get dunked on? I refuse to talk about self meta as *scum* because it makes it harder for me actually. A conclusion with no basis in fact.

Take a shot and reread it.

Alice: why is 1) scum lean and not NAI? That logic only makes sense if you come from it with the notion that they are scum only. Show me why it's AI.

Yes it is not scum only thing of course, but I can see a plan to attack anyone who doesn't abide by proposed startegy to be attacked (Mollie). That's scummy. Other than that which is not talking place here, when you do mech talk without doing reads.

This kinda leads me to ask: if you think scum!WJ plan was to potentially attack people over the mech talk while proposing me as their partner, could you explain how me questioning T3 over town reading it and later implying it was NAI fits in?

There's answers to that which makes sense in my head, but I want to hear your logic.

im increasingly getting the vibe that W/J is town i think they've done enough things that make sense from a town perspective and it's a little too big brainy/too over the top fake towniness that on balance i think they're probably just town.

I'll explain further down with IV's read on me, but I feel townreading WJ while wanting to push me is not likely to come from mafia given the gamestate. Unless the team is exactly WJ/IV, the latter is actively choosing to try and undermine me while town!WJ has made it clear the strength in their townread on me, even as far ago as when this post was made. Further, I don't think that team is likely as during the initial bout between WJ and Mollie, IV came in pressing WJ over meta points.

VOTE: Facebones

i have zero opinion on facebones' posts but assuming mollie vs koba is v likely to be a town hood mathematically that leaves Facebones as the highest probability to be mafia.

may as well shell out some remaining opinions.

i skimmed facebones's iso and zero things stand out to me im sorry.

i think T3 is very slightly to be +town because he is actually producing content/asking questions with a plausible intention to understand the gamestate better and not being over the top with emotion which is what he did in a recent scum game. this is quite weak because again im still not too sure how to distinguish between town and scum him.

AliceK zero opinion. i played with town!AliceK once and did not post very much.

Flea zero opinion I don't think fae has really started playing yet.

no idea how to read andres because he's never actually been scum

I remember having an early TL on Holden but i think it's disappearing a little bit. one thing that pinged me slightly was going back to the early framing of mollie vs koba as SvS -> TvS because they can't actually be SvS seems consistent with an early attempt to sow more discord between them. Yes it's backed by what could be legitimate reasoning but it's consistent with a potential scum agenda all the same - i mean if you're going to frame something in a certain way you have to provide some semblance of reasoning

With that said, I have no clue how this progression on Facebone makes sense. I have done some maths on the set up after a few events (If I am alive on day 2, I will explain), but I think what IV is getting at here is that since they think that Mollie and WJ are TvT, then Facebone now has a 66% chance of being scum instead of 50%. A monty hall paradox basically....expect it doesn't work out. If someone outside of IV's hood filps scum and the assertion that Mollie/WJ is still held, then Facebone goes back to having a 50% chance of being scum (as there are only two hoods left with one scum remaining).

^That was mostly a math flex (unless it is wrong then I never replied).

Outside of that 479 mirrors what I had issues with before. The post really doesn't have any content in it. Outside of the null reads, the T3 and my read both are laced with conditionals or words to lessen their impact. As such, effectively, nothing is said by this post in terms of solid reads. I will say that I do at least like the logic surrounding mine though despite not leading to a real conclusion. Looking back at the post, it does feel that my overall confusion about the tone at that stage could be scum egging on the thread to hyperfocus onto the fight and take sides. Disregarding team requirements, it shows IV is trying to think deeper about my ISO.

OK I want to shelve it and not add onto the fire and talk about it postgame mollie.

So if you please - drop it.

If you want to discuss it further we have a private topic.

I'm not going to unpack and explain right now.

We made progress here. Just focus on that please.

It is clear that you have made the hood an unsafe place to be in.

I am not going to talk to you there, because I want witnesses.

I am now scumreading your slot because Gamma was once a list mod, and is well aware of the direction of the sitewide goal of inclining towards civility as a whole, because it has been toxic for years. He should be telling you to shut the fuck up right now, because you are trying to bully me into submission but it isn't going to work.

What I am trying to parse, is whether or not you came in with a premeditated plan to pick a fight with me or whether you merely anticipated one. Every single bit of that points to Gamma's and your pregame analysis, and it is their alignment I need to determine in order to determine yours.

Gamma knows that site meta historically has been, "pick a fight with Mollie, if you are scum you will get town cleared because she is emotional and she gets toxic when she gets emotional". it is why I took a break, and the world changed and the site sort of got better. At least I thought.

It is Gamma I am trying to read at this point, not you, I just want you to make up your mind about me and leave me the fuck alone.

reposting.

Flea, it really worries me that you are trying equalize the level of hostility between us, because I am not being hostile, except very recently, while dkoba has been aggressively putting me down all game. It is a false equivalency that sounds strange coming from you.

I am so so sorry to have to ask this Mollie, but I am curious -- How well did you and Gamma know eachother prior to your break?

Could you go into detail more on why Flea felt off during Fae attempt to deescalate the situation? Is it off AI wise, or was this more of a heat of the moment comment?

Right now I look at solves in my head that look like:

WNJ - mollie[/green]

IV

-

Facebones

Alice

-

REDACTED

REDACTED - REDACTED

REDACTED

this is how I view my solves in a setup like this.

I would have shared this solve with mollie if I could trust them not to just share it with everyone and point scum straight to the FN.

Sorry mollie , but your tenacity to constantly share things that are not pro-town to the main thread does not make me want to work with you in terms of solving the game - not that you are willing to right now with anyone. (please prove me wrong by doing so)

Why is Facebone red? Everything up to this point has been you saying that he is townish. If it's PoE, why couldn't the mysterious hood have it?

FB why are you not talking to IV in your hood?

Facebones - you were already asked before, but why havent you used your hood to communicate with IV?

I've been communicating with him, albeit rather cautiously. It's not like I've been flat out ignoring him or anything. The opening few posts of the hood was a straight up scumfession from IV who had been allegedly suffering from a guilty conscience and it made me mad paranoid. I felt like I had to pick my words carefully/not get into detail because it might make it's way into the maf PT which would only aid their cause

Then I think we talked about Thanksgiving for a coupla posts, I jotted down about how I was townreading GoldenHolden and had a sook about how T3's reputation for being a player of few words and quite vague makes him unhelpful as town in my view (both of which IV had nothing to say about, just encouraged me to keep posting so he could get a better read on me)

Then some maths about why the likelihood of me being mafia increases if Wright v Molly is TvT followed by an apology

Thoughts from Boneyface:
This too and fro between W&J/Molly is starting to become tedious. It's distracting me now and would be greatly appreciated if they stopped talking to each other/about each other for ~48 hours

GoldenHolden is probably my highest townread, he's answered every question asked of him, is making logical reads while explaining them and dumbs it down for simpletons like myself to understand without being snarky. Does seem to be showing intent to solve

I'm pretty sure IV was just either just taking the piss or doing a reaction test thing in our hood when he admitted to being mafia and junk in the first 3 posts. That plus putting himself on E-1 on D1 and the frustration has him in the town pile for now

My thoughts on T3 hasn't really changed much since 466

Very curious to hear Alice and Andres thoughts, they're both at null for me

I wrote like 4 paragraphs flipping out that Facebone has said that he felt his partner had scumconfess and wasn't pushing them before seeing Facebone say they think its a false claim

I do not like a trend I am seeing out of Facebone: they aren't really pushing much since 121 it feels. Although they are a pleasure to talk to, their play has been pretty reactionary since then. They agreed Mollie and WJ was TvS only after I posted, made 466 off my question, and responded to hood questions. While this read post is nice, I can't really say it pushes the gamestate further at all. Not to mention I don't see any formal scumlean or FOS either. For this far into the game,

I expect Facebone to have or convey some sort of lead.

Therefore, they are into the soup.

PEDIT:

Holden don’t think ur talking to me but I’m aware u were very early to call it TvS and that was kinda weird to me

I was gonna say scum but it just flashed in my mind that scum would probably want to watch it develop and take a more subtle approach so maybe that’s actually town indicative for u in a weird way

Well this makes me feel better about IV being town as conceding that it makes me town, he's reducing potential disruption of an broad townlean if scum. And no, it was to Mollie

TLDR:
- On it's own, I find IV's posts such as 479 still to be scum like. His reaction (which was not covered in the above but shut up this is my TLDR) could go either way and it felt out of tone. However, his read and
progression on me feels grossly mishandled for scum!IV. Not only was it risky to push me given WJ strong town lean on me (assuming their aren't a team but again that's unlikely), but by just now flipping it it undermines his strongest potential scum lean at a time where most players are converging onto PoE targets. An argument could be made regarding if scum!IV could pull it off, but I don't think it would of been hard since the logic he had in after mention post wasn't half bad. Therefore, I am coming around to them being townish.

UNVOTE:

-Facebone has gone down on account of not really trying to push the game forward since 121. A majority of his interactions from that post has been spent replying to people. While I thank him for answering, the lack of scumhunting/pressuring is alarming. The play is too passive given all that has happen, especially since prior to 121 he was prodding for info a lot more.

(Not in catch up but TLDR like thoughts so fuck you they go here )

I don't really have anything new on Alice that hasn't been said. Hopefully they post more. I will be voting Facebone right now merely because no since not spreading pressure, but I am fine with the Alice pressure wagon too.

VOTE: Facebook

wait

VOTE: Meta

Better (god if only I did meta)

Flea has posted a lot but I don't have strong feelings on them at the time.

Questions aimed at me:

I forgot most of these but remember WJ asking if I read the links they send about meta. I do, I just skim them mostly as I already read too much IRL.

[HoldenGolden]

im just going to re-throw out that i don't see as holden as locktown. yes being cooperative and having coherent, non-super simplistic thoughts are in theory town traits but im not ready to townbin based off of that. if there's any meta evidence that they cannot do this as scum id reconsider.

if it's a "good enough for D1" read then im totally for that, i don't see any reason to push them today yet. just not going to throw away the chance they're deepwolfing yet

I haven't played since May of 2020, but I have powerscummed -> deep wolf every time I roll mafia. Outside of a few idiosyncratic tells, I consider my old metas to be similar. Maybe I do a bit more analysis as town.

This was why I was questioning WJ on if they read my old scum meta too as if they did, their strength in their read would be very weird to me.

My read on Holden is the only read that Dkoba is weirdly obsessed with, and they are townreading them. Wouldn't my opinions on Alice and Facebones be more important, since they are scumreading them? But w/e I am giving it a rest. Y'all either see it or you don't.

Spoiler: No lawyers allowed (I am serious Dkobba)

Shhh buddy attempts are my new bait. The old guard knows of my defeat to humaneatingmonkey because of buddy issues.

[HoldenGolden]

I don't really understand what you are doing here? I mean, I am not reading you as town. Yu are yet to be determined with a scumlean by my standards.

Have you iso-ed W&J? I am not engaging in meta, I am asking if you have looked at them in isolation. I was going through it and there is a lot there that doesn't add up and it seems like town!you would pick up on that.

So why aren't you?

I was being cheeky. You said your heart would sing if you could 'get' a townread on me so I 'gave' you one.

Just to be clear, by meta you are talking about the buddy stuff? That's the only thing I have mentioned other then answering their question of if I read their posts containing meta. I am not sure where meta can up here.

Not much has changed on W/J since I last responded to you about them expect they have slid a little more down into middle of the pack/null range

outside of ya'll dynamic

. Gamma hasn't preformed to my liking in hopes of clearing up their slot. I wish they would post a bit more tbh. My biggest grip with Dkobba is their push switching doesn't make the most since from my perspective. While I don't mind (and even think it's townie) to drop and instantly pick up a new target, stuff like the random red Facebone think jut out to me as odd. Hence why I am asking them about it.

In terms of some of the points you have made, some I concede are true. One I don't see through the thread the premeditated logic. It implies some bait had to be laid for you, but looking back at the start of the day, that really doesn't seem to be the case. I think the ramp up in hostility was faster then what I would expect, yet hoods make that difficult to understand especially since we got conflicting stances from both of you. You may of missed it in my spoiler post, but how well did Gamma know you before your break?

Personally I am trying to look into Facebone and the rest to A) expand the topics being discussed in the thread and B) because they are easier for me to sort. Since I answered some of what you are interested in, what do you think about my IV and Facebone points?

[HoldenGolden]

Votecount 1.6

AliceK(2)

~ Wright and Justice(239), T3(36)

Wright and Justice(1)

~ piratemollie(101)

Facebones(1)

~ innocentvillager(92)

Meta(1)

~ HoldenGolden(58)

Not Voting (4): Facebones(12), AliceK(5), Flea The Magician(35), Andresvmb(8)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-05 18:49:25)

FLAVOR

"You look around. The vines start creeping."

I am guessing the red "You are a disappointment" color indicates that my vote is bad ?

[HoldenGolden]

Also Mollie, what is town!me suppose to be seeing according to your eyes?

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler: off topic

humaneatingmonkey came back for like a month in july and made a gtkas and you were one of his favorite players onsite

The situation has been handled

[HoldenGolden]

Hey Mollie?

I mean this nicely, but you need to read the thread closer.

For example:

No.

I don't even know what you are talking about here.

I asked if you had read them in isolation.

It is a simple yes or no question

.

Have you iso-ed W&J?

I am not engaging in meta, I am asking if you have looked at them in isolation.

I was going through it and there is a lot there that doesn't add up and it seems like town!you would pick up on that.

You brought up meta to this discussion at that time. I had just done a catch up and I wasn't sure what you were exactly referring to by it. Thus I ask what meta are you talking about. It's not as complicated as you make it out to be.

The post that 608 responds to also includes my stance on Dkobba which conflicts with the underline. I did answer it -- regardless if you liked it. This ties back in with the TvT stuff. Even other people in the thread like IV were saying that it was TvS when you made those posts. Yet, you kept saying it was TvT. Stuff like that

It really fells you are more invested in trying to prove people are scum rather then scum hunting. I mean, you jumped on T3 here for a post that says it is unrelated to game which implies you didn't also read my catch up post.

But the reason why I really point this out:

*Holden thinks they are being slick with the tags

I think that is why George Bailey highlighted your name in unbolded red, I think. The bbc code messes up if I requote your [/m e t a ] post intacted.

Did you know that would happen?

You forgot a quote start bracket hence why it broke and when you quote the original one, it fixes the post. Try it. Press quote on 608.

1) Nope, it is also against the rules I believe
2) The meta tag you are referring to was added in on your reply. My post's code doesn't actually contained it.
3) [meta][/meta] aren't actual bbcode handlers and such wouldn't impact anything.

This accusation is actually pretty serious for what is outlined in 1). I would normally forgive it, but

you seem to have added the meta tag which you are claiming breaks the bbcode.

Regardless of your actual role: if you are scum, that's really fucking low and toxic. If you are town, you really need to be more careful and track . You aren't coming off as 'direct' but rather unwilling to parse things.
-------------
I spent all the free time I had before class writing this on mobile. When I'm done, I'll engage with the rest of your post. 612 just really got to me and I want to set it straight first.

[HoldenGolden]

So I had a thought. I've been reading these odd and morbid manuscripts of unspeakable evil and have ponder its applications. In a fit of transcendent brilliance, I realize that one could infuse the negative social energies of a cud de sac into a being. Thus my work begun beating an AI with a digitally crafted stick. The pain mirroring that of which we all have felt, one time or another. In the end, the sickening sacrifice was finished and now it paints its pixelated surfaces with its dread. Like all artist, it's depressed and inflicted with deep rooted daddy issues. Like Picasso or myself. However Like all good entertainers, repression hides the all consuming void of illness to fulfill commissions.

Signor Wombo.ai bespeaks that you gaze upon its newest psychedelic piece dubbed 'Happy Mafia'.

Spoiler: Happy Mafia

Let's us all admire and treasure this new addition to the game while willfully ignoring that the donkey has been busy with LDOC and finals starting Friday.

(Catching up now)

[HoldenGolden]

Oh shoot, we have 4 and a half days left.

Everyone vote someone even if it's just a hunch rn

VOTE: Facebone

[HoldenGolden]

Doing spoilers again because I think they are neat!

(also I feel they look better)

Spoiler: Mollie related stuff

Ah I see about the BBcode. Sorry I acted that way. It just didn't come off as a joke due to the post's surrounding it if that makes sense. Serious posts like that always rub me wrong.

Why did you have them as town (W&J) in the first place?

My apologizes as I fucked up. They shifted down comment was referring to an earlier version of that post I had talked why i shifted from TvS to Tvt over the span of like 200 posts before remembering it was suppose to be in isolation and rewrote cutting it out and trying to be less verbose. Result ending up as you saw.

I think if time permits I am going to ISO them. Namely I want to compare what they say they want versus what they actually do (Woah, mindblowing analysis) as I have hard times remembering the timeline of their posts. For some reason, my mind thinks they have contradicted themselves.

I think IV is town. There was an opportunity that presented itself for IV to foment the rage W&J has towards me, but they opted not to and tried to actually sort things out. I am unsure on Facebones, they are a low content poster who is standing on the sidelines and feeding the fire.

In what ways are they feeding the fire?

Actually, I am just trying to have a conversation with Holden. I am trying to figure out how he thinks because he was weirdly silent when I made my case and I am wondering why. I don't even care if Holden addresses my points. We can talk about something else if he wants to.

If I am honest? Your two's conflict sparked my urge to defend town -- specifically the atmosphere. Contrary to what others used to think, I am not that good as town. The reason why I do so much better as scum as because I have perfect info and know how to feign scumhunting well. I have my moments, but tend to not be able to make them count. What I am good is trying to fuel town's atmosphere so the better scumhunters can well...hunt. Therefore when you two started up, my motherly instinct kicked in. I also recall not being swayed by it by virtue of it being koba.

Spoiler: IV

sure my 479 was devoid of any "solid reads" but again that's just how i play i was giving out my thoughts on every player at the time. im not sure why you think that's so scummy other than maybe wishiwashiness/general lack of a read being some sort of real scumtell for you.

Here let me detail my thought process in hopes you can understand it better.

People think that day 1 is a clusterfuck and in many ways it is, but it is equally clusterfuck on both sides. As much as town has little to go off of, scum lack any insurance of safety. They don't have any town cred out of the gate to fall back on, nor do they usually have a feeling for how certain players will react. Meta helps sure but only so much. Therefore, often I see scum suffer from extending too far to try and look towny. While it can take multiple forms, the most reliable type of scummy post I have seen is the D1 'readlist'. Rather then just listing AI points on some players and then doing a blanket statement for the rest, Scum tend to bloat out their post to take the form of a readlist. The issue being that since most of the reads are null (as they want to keep doors open to pressure), they have to write something NAI to accompany it to make it look like actual work. That or they do 'pseudo' reads which are just long wishywashy statements that say nothing. Because it looks like a readlist, they get more credit and are attributed to solving the game despite it not having much substance. I can quote some from age old games of mine that I remember if you want to see this.

Now let's take a look at 479 with this in mind:

may as well shell out some remaining opinions.

i skimmed facebones's iso and zero things stand out to me im sorry.

i think T3 is very slightly to be +town because he is actually producing content/asking questions with a plausible intention to understand the gamestate better and not being over the top with emotion which is what he did in a recent scum game. this is quite weak because again im still not too sure how to distinguish between town and scum him.

AliceK zero opinion. i played with town!AliceK once and did not post very much.

Flea zero opinion I don't think fae has really started playing yet.

no idea how to read andres because he's never actually been scum

I remember having an early TL on Holden but i think it's disappearing a little bit. one thing that pinged me slightly was going back to the early framing of mollie vs koba as SvS -> TvS because they can't actually be SvS seems consistent with an early attempt to sow more discord between them. Yes it's backed by what could be legitimate reasoning but it's consistent with a potential scum agenda all the same - i mean if you're going to frame something in a certain way you have to provide some semblance of reasoning

Of the 6 player's listed, 2 actually have any content to go with them. The rest bloats the read to look like more was put into it without saying anything of consequence. Everything said falls into public knowledge expect maybe the Alice one, yet it still doesn't really assert anything.

The irreducible representation of the post then becomes:

Fake quote:

Facebone is Null
t3 is slight town read (logic here)
Flea is Null
Andres is Null
AliceK is null
Holdengolden is slipping from tl (logic here)

See it now? You can even take it further and analyze how the structure of the post is such that the reads with actual content are near the top and bottom which has psychological implications. I tend not too as I find it a bit WIFOM, but that's a nutshell of why its scummy to me in a vacuum. In conjunction, the washyiness of the reads also plays into it but I spoke of that so.

Spoiler: Misc

these kinds of deranged conclusions dont come from a scum so really just like bin mollie as town and just ignore them from now.

they got 24 hours and only just barely decided to read outside of my slot and still keep trying to make reads based on how people read my slot.

its been well over 24 hours so im coming back swinging now.

I disagree with this sentiment.

Yeah its been tangential to your slot, but not in the sense that it has a dependency on it. For example, the concern of how I wasn't engaging on their case despite being active is more of an indivual point on me rather then off of you. Ditto for IV.

Hit me with a homerun: Give me the solve Seto Kobba otherwise its the shadow realm for you. MWHAHAHAHHAHA-cough

T3, going back a coupla hundred posts to

Not anymore. Koba’s point about how they are only high post count when town is true and even if that is untrue, that kind of observation often comes from town.

Then may I ask who are your suspects right now?

I think you said IV long ago but my reading comprehension is shut rn

I may pass out soo

Just IV. I think the other scum is in Alice/Flea and maybe Andres if I'm wrong.

Why did you view Flea otherwise possibly Andre as the second scum?
Is this still the case?

POE.
No.

Mollie
Wj
Holden
Facebones
Flea
IV/Andres
Alice

I'm assuming this means Flea is no longer a part of your POE then?
What changed your mind on faer slot?
Also, what was the thought process behind unvoting IV and placing it on Alice instead?
IV seems to be the only person you've had reasons for thinking is scummy besides "POE"

I mildly like this.

Reads right now are:

PM

WJ (Tvt logic), Flea (Flea >>> WJ in this bracket)

IV

Andres, T3

Facebones, Alice

Honestly im paranoid of any active scum player right now. Gamestate is getting better, but the lack of any real wagon suggests scum are fine where it are. I lean into thinking some of the lurkers are scum though. There was minimal disruption during the Koba vs PM conflict as well which supports it. I am not sure exactly if Alice is scum by this metric as they are gearing up to be the universal lim target, but I can't really say I don't see why. T3 has fallen off for me. I don't mind the small amount of posting. They don't carry the small energy though that felt townie at the start of day 1. Much like FootMuscle, I would like for them to push more.

Flea I haven't talked much about but tonally I like them. Faer's feelings about the game seem to mimic mine and I'd think it be a tad difficult for scum!Flea to pull it off.

PEDIT: Oh Flea made point too. Cool. Townie points. Vote though.

[HoldenGolden]

Oh shoot, we have 4 and a half days left.

Everyone vote someone even if it's just a hunch rn

VOTE: Facebone

Dear Holden,

Please don't be scum. It would crush my hopes and

dreams, and break my heart.

Yours truly,

Mollie

Dear Mollie,



Yours truly,
Holden

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler:

(I like to think that's why I used get to last-elim so often. Scum didn't want to kill me for the jokes and town was too charmed to ever consider elim me )

[HoldenGolden]

Dipping for classes

[HoldenGolden]

I'm here mod. Sorry I have been dead since English final (16 pages in 3 hours. Fuck time writing assignments)

Catching up with my morning tea

[HoldenGolden]

Do I hear prod dodge?

No I hear HoldenPaul's Sheep Race.

That's right! The meat sack that operates this account is incredibly tired mentally and still has a final today after just getting out of one.

So for today, and today only, you lucky contestants get to bribe me in order to receive my luxurious vote. Huzzah.

(I'm also down to a similar PoE as WJ I'm just debating Mollies post flip posts in my head.)

Spoiler: Me until tomorrow

[HoldenGolden]

Morning Tweet it's been too long!

Would you like to participate in HoldenPaul's Sheep Race?

[HoldenGolden]

Oh there is a bear.

Alright lets catch the fuck up

[HoldenGolden]

Wait are we discussing the last hoods and stuff?

[HoldenGolden]

Molly/MT isn't scum because if she was, she wouldn't try to incriminate Wright so much (I assume they've played together before?) so early. Even if they've not played before, she saw how it was going to go down and didn't shy away, but dug her heels in.
I don't think scum!Molly would've gone through all that effort and drawn that much attention to herself

I was a bit suspicious of WJ and thought it would be right in their nature as scum to bus their partner, but IV sort've touched on that and WJ's reaction to it made me change my mind

In hindsight, it makes no sense that scum WJ provided an alternate wagon to town!me yesterday and ultimately get her scum buddy elimmed, even more so seeing Alice wasn't on anyone elses radar
Why would WJ do that if scum with Alice?
That does not make sense
I might not agree with some of the ways they've gone about their game, but it did come across as genuine frustration including all the times WJ told Molly to look elsewhere

So that's one TvT hood done from my point of view

We all know how Andre/Alice turned out

IV I've been mad suspicious of ever since the claim, and questioned his alliance several times in our special room. Since that claim, he's been cool, calm, collected, is going into a lot of things with an open mind, trying to view all aspects of the game and see what pieces fit where and attempting to solve this puzzle
The mathematics says the chances of IV being mafia is 33%

Taking into consideration the ways he's gone about playing the game I'd say it's even less

Which leaves us with Flea, T3 and Mx. Slick as the last hood and the FN

On the first and second page, T3 and Mx. Slick's interactions were strange for me, and the way Mx. Slick was questioning WJ about T3 lead me to believe they were the final hood, meaning Flea was the FN

I asked Mx. Slick a couple of questions, he seemed to be more than willing to answer, explain and elaborate
I asked T3 a couple of questions, he did not seem to willing to explain and elaborate

Then the votes happened and Alice turned scum, and that's what's conflicting me the most right now

Mx. Slick, the person who I thought was the most towny out of the players remaining, was not voting for scum
T3, the person who I thought was the scummiest was 2nd in line to vote Alice
The person who I thought was FN (Flea) hopped on the wagon once it had started gaining momentum, and voted Alice with this

VOTE: AliceK

Get yo ass in here and give the promised content. Longer you wait the more I expect my mind to be blown.

Which is pinging the hell outta me

Although MT made some good points about the actual direction and strength of the scum reads, this post reveals a potential game plan perspective for scum!Facebones which the rest of his Day 2 posts and his progression on IV falls in.

He basically has a pool of 3 people with the caveat that one is FN, so effectively two real targets for a mis-elim. Scum!Facebones needs three in order to win. Even if he convinces town to elim those two, he has to backtrack on the other reads he has presented: namely his town reads on either WJ or IV. Likely IV if it came down to it, as attacking town!WJ in last-elim would result in WJ voting them 9/10 times because that's dkobba for ya. In such a case I'd predict the following plan:

D2: Elim Holden/Porky/T3 seed doubt in IV
NK2: FN claim from the three forced by his discussion
D3: Elim other person in Holden/Porky/T3 trio; start undoing read on IV
NK3: one of MT/WJ (likely MT at this junction)
D4: Last-Elim with one of MT/WJ + IV + FB, Push IV to win

Which if you look at his posts since D2 began (and the bold above):

IF SCUM DID BUS
I'm suspicious of T3 (I've asked him a couple of questions and he's given me nothing answers and I'm not a fan of the "best to try to solve around him" logic), although he was the second to vote Alice, he just hasn't been willing to cooperate I guess? Everyone else seems to think he's town though, and being second on the wagon is kind of hard to ignore so I'll say he's town for now

I'm about 80% sure IV is town at this point, but I keep getting a weird naggling feeling about how both him and Alice felt the need to treat the hood PT as a confessional. Town for now

Which leaves Flea. I've only played with faem twice, maybe three times? Both times fae were town, and I've no idea how fae play as scum. I don't like how late fae were on the Alice wagon.

If Molly was scum, would they really be willing to put themselves in the headlights so blatantly?
It does come across to me as a genuinely frustrated towny, but she might just be a good actress

Another possibility is IV hammered his team mate for the towny cred once Alice got to E-1 and he realised my elim wasn't happening

He's handling IV slot already in that manner for a potential flip D3. Most of his logic presented this day phase hasn't actually explained much of why IV is still town for him post Alice flip expect for 902's general remark on IV's overall playstyle. This is in contrast to how he goes about explaining WJ and Mollie in these posts. With them, Facebones made sure to provide specific details over his analysis of the Alice interactions to support why they are town. IV doesn't have this, and even with this post filled of interactions with Alice FB chooses not to include earlier statements he made about possible connections IV has with scum!alice. In fact, the only mention I could find of any other reasoning to town read IV was back in day one:

I'm pretty sure IV was just either just taking the piss or doing a reaction test thing in our hood when he admitted to being mafia and junk in the first 3 posts.

That plus putting himself on E-1 on D1 and the frustration has him in the town pile for now

WHICH he has expressed doubt over the underline this day phase with 891, re-contextualizing what he thought was a reaction test to be a thread with Alice. As such, their only reasoning left that I can trace is IV's day 1 implosion and self vote combined with his general tone.

But after this post day 1...

Do you think it's possible that IV is scum here?
If IV was town, would scum let them off the hook so quickly after getting them to turn suicidal and being one vote away from hammer?

There was no follow up to this post by FB. So either town!Facebone was merely probing for more information on IV to sure up his read, or scum!facebones is purposely keeping that avenue open because his partner was likely to get elim through proxy of asking the question. In following Facebone's read on IV, I really don't see why FB has him as town. Time after time again, he expresses doubt or undermines IV's read left and right. If that was the case, then wouldn't it be a town lean at most? Not the "80%" he stated earlier? There is so much undirected doubt here it doesn't feel townie. Rather, I really think Facebone is scum and has selected their method to win the game via mis-eliming the VT's in the after mention trio and flipping on his hood partner.

VOTE: Facebones

Imma keep reading but that's a nail for me. Too much makes sense coming from a scum!facebones perspective in the original post quoted.

[HoldenGolden]

I am also salty that Alice didn't post enough to make a deep VCA possible

[HoldenGolden]

Why were you anxious about Koba townreading you on page 3, if you recall?

I was on various amounts of substances but I remember getting buddy vibes.

I know I am buddy target no. 1 as town for scum so any early town read that feels out of nowhere always rubs me wrong

kekekekekeke

[HoldenGolden]

no im not going through this fucking wifom bus bullshit again

Spoiler: Why Dkobba is scum and is holding town gamma hostage

If you take the number equivalent of the first letter of each of their hydra names you get W = 23 and J = 11. Adding this together and looping back around the alphabet once you get to 26, you get to 7 which is G. Why is G important? Well now if we subtract Dkobba from gamma we get 12 which is L for last. This means we need to go back to the original calculation that got us G and enter the value there like a hashmap, expect that spot is already filled. If we do an inverse linear probe upwards, we get F instead for the subtract key pair.

G + F = GF which is gamer talk for GodFather -- a taunt Dkobba coded into the hydra creation using high level maths and basic computer science bullshitry. You see I believe in accordance to the flavor, Dkobba bribed Georgeboy into making sure they would roll scum. Now you might say "Holden, George wrote that the flavor has no real game importance." To which I say.....

Consider the fact that today is a Friday in America, but Friday in Romania as well. BailyWaily used to have an profile picture inspired by castlevania which hosts dracula as the final boss. Once the game got well underway, it was changed to be some weird yellow king reference. Why is this important? Well the F from earlier is also the First Letter in Friday, but also the First letter in Fusion. And what is a hydra but a fusion of two people? I decree that out of shame, Bail boi changed his pfp to avoid the mental visual connection of shame due to the bribe. He kept the rules the same in order to through off any connection. But he felt so bad that he Freudian slipped by naming mafia the "Old Gods". Old God? Sounds like a Father of Gods to me! It was clear to any deep maths person like IV.

So why hasn't IV caught on?

Because fool Gamma of course! G starts with G and his name in the hydra math wise is G. G G G ! That's a Great Good Game! The level of BM is so fucking high that IV couldn't possibly catch on with his math skills BECAUSE DKkoba is a mastermind! Dkobba has digitally capture them to toy with our emotions! Why else has Dkobba stopped signing the posts? It's because its not a hydra at all!

But Dkkoba didn't account for me signing up, hence the buddy attempts early on! But I got you, you slimely lawyer! Victory shall be ours! Mwahahahahaha

I do not know why I do these.

[HoldenGolden]

never seen anyone ever tank the towniness of a slot upon replace in but now ive seen it
VOTE: pooky

Also can you explained this?

[HoldenGolden]

Hmm

Facebones would you face me in a duel?