Open 844 – Cults With Guns [Endgame]

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VOTE: stephen a smith

cult recruit me please

it'll help my scum winrate

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UNVOTE:

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alright I gotta be frank, this feels like being in lylo on day 1

where you're hesitant because it's day 1 and there's no information and then you're also double hesitant because you know if you lim wrong the game is probably over

at the same time though I've realized the situation is probably not going to change, the cultists have no incentive to rock the boat and can probably mostly just lurk and win

VOTE: fua as they fit the category of, just coasting by, you know/? and it is indeed strange that they had zero comment on the fact that the vig claimed they would be shot tonight

ummmm but yeah most of the game is kind of just null to me

90% of the conversation thus far has been about setup and, sure, while town often do talk about setup, scum also commonly talk about setup just to seem townie

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sure but, not even asking him why? not addressing it at all? why is the possibility of looking defensive more worrisome to you than the possibility of a townie getting shot and us basically automatically losing?

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Why would any townie want to look scummy?

you must have a very low opinion of the town if you believe we will scumread the mere act of engaging with someone regarding why they want to shoot you

sounds more like paranoia

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okay, let's say for the sake of argument that questioning stephen is a bad move

why are you fine with questioning me? shouldn't you also be worried that this will be seen as defensiveness?

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a vig's gun is not pressure??

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okay so help me understand the why me fry me principle

is 2 votes the limit? why me fry me at 0 votes, why me fry me at 1 vote, but at 2 votes we gotta start arguing our case. is that the rationale?

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yeah but you're not, you're at 2 votes

so what I'm asking is, does "why me = fry me" only apply when you are at 0 votes? then, once you have a certain amount of votes it no longer applies and you start defending yourself? is that how it works?

and if so, how many votes does it take for you to abandon the principle? 1? 2?

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I get to decide when defending yourself is scummy

well, no. I said the exact opposite, actually. I believe that defending yourself is not scummy at all

YOU are the one currently arguing to ME that defending yourself is scummy, which is why you didn't want to do it. I'm just trying to understand the rationale of that stance

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To answer questions posed to me in a PM, explosion does not end the Day. It resets the vote count, however. Even if the Exploder explodes, the other cultist is still able to recruit, as both have the Alpha status. (The Alpha status indicates which cultists can use the recruit ability, and no new cultists receive it.) An Exploder may not explode during Twilight.

VC

soon

ROFL FUA 100% THE EXPLODER

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I'm on the floor crying right now

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54 feels tmi and the whole conversation on page 3 feels fake as fuck

lol care to elaborate? what "feels fake" about it?

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it feels like you're handling fua with kiddie gloves while showing a decent amount of certainty that they're scum, and not really looking for possible things that would change your mind.

this take is strange. most of my ISO is me looking for possible things that would change my mind, by asking them specific questions about their motives. so what do you mean by this?

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i mean exactly what i said. your questions towards fua are hot air designed to make you look unaligned. you're not going through a thought process while asking them, they're not guiding your thinking, you're asking them for the sake of asking questions. which part is unclear?

the part that's unclear is the part you keep repeating but not actually explaining. what in my posts indicates that the questions I was asking had no thought process behind them? or that they weren't guiding my thinking? reading my own ISO I'm struggling to grasp what you could possibly mean by this

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well, no. usually when someone votes someone else, they have specific reasons in mind. all I wanted to know was, what those specific reasons were for you

I'd assumed you had already done the combing by now to be making this case in the first place

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seeing things for myself and presenting them to others in a way that's understandable by them are two completely different things. not to mention that the other takes a lot of time.

is this conversation helping you in any way?

feel free to take your time

yes, I really do want to understand where you've coming from with this

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do you not have any other reads on anyone else?

I don't have any particularly strong reads since there's been not that much actual content in this game, all things considered. and a big chunk of what content there is, has related to fua, who has already been figured out

and the thing that benefited the cult by fua exploding is how few people directly interacted with them while they were alive

in fact, before the mod outed them, the only other players who interacted with fua at all were enchant and flea and stephen. and we can already assume stephen is town (or else, he will be shot by the real vig, so assuming he's town is safe for us to do)

enchant's interactions with fua were purely setup discussions (oh and fua said enchant likes to lolhammer?)

flea however... fua criticized him in 33 and later voted him. do they really risk the life of their fellow cult leader like that? in what's probably an easy win game if they just sit and do nothing? it's... possible... but idk if I see it

I also don't know whether scum!flea really posts all that stuff about wanting the IC to confirm when it claims, in the face of town!enchant arguing the opposite. maybe he does idk but my gut would lean toward no

korina has contributed very little, which I could possibly see coming from scum looking to just coast to an easy day 2 victory given how cultsided this setup is. but yeah this is mostly null.

enchant has posted a lot but almost all of it has been setup discussion, which again I don't really consider AI because anyone can post about the setup. that said, you've mentioned that in your past experience with enchant she's not really super active and protown as scum. you're probably telling the truth about that regardless of your alignment. on the other hand, meta can be easily manipulated. so, townie plus for enchant but a small one

as for you, until just recently you were mostly just in the same category as fua and korina in my mind, one of the less active players who could be coasting by. but now I have to figure out whether you truly believe this case you've made on me. currently I'm struggling to follow your thought process on it

so I think if I would order the four of you in most to least likely town it would go

Flea
Enchant
Korina
Datisi

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I will likely *not* be around

VOTE: Datisi this flips cult. this push on me was a last ditch yolo play. but now he's given up and is avoiding the thread (yet he's still been posting elsewhere)

do we get to vote Cook as town MVP?

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"avoiding the thread" lol i am not about to waste half an hour of my life explaining to scum why they're scum. nobody else asked.

...huh? you really have zero interest in explaining your *own* case? against what you truly believe is the last remaining cultist? why not?

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okay. you're functionally admitting your case is a fabrication and even you don't believe it. thanks for confirming

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so, you stopped reading the thread? my questions was, okay, what exactly in anything I said indicated that? I'm reading my own questions and the thought process is pretty clear. is it not?

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then he said he needed to comb through for that. then I said take your time. now he's claiming he just doesn't want to anymore

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if he didn't feel the need to explain at all, he would have said that from the get go. we wouldn't have had this whole back and forth to start with

what happened instead is, he gave vague explanations. then I asked for specifics. then now he's like "well i don't need to explain anything to you." hmmm okay

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Why should Dats explain to you, why it thinks you're cult?

I can't make heads of tails of this question. if he's town and he actually thinks I'm scum, why would his goal not be to explain his reasoning so people will want to vote with him? why would he just throw out something vague then shut down when asked for specifics?

I asked, what, a half dozen questions to fua? and none of the posts were long at all. you could probably read through it all in around 60 seconds. he couldn't point to a single point of actual evidence for his claims?

and I've been in a similar scenario before. in cul-de-sac mafia I led an elimination wagon on a scum, then their last remaining scum partner, as a desperation play, tried to come after me and argued the whole thing was just an elaborate bus. then when asked for specifics, could not really back up why they would even think such a thing. so, you talk about experience? I've experienced all this before. It's very obviously coming from scum

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Your 235 is crap, if I'm entirely honest. There's been a number of times I've gone into something raring and ready to look at it and just go "Ya know what. Shove it. I don't have the spoons/spell slots to do this, I'm not explaining to you when you're using fallacies and exaggerations. Just be yeet." as this is what I see you doing.

this is baffling to me. where were the fallacies, the exaggerations? I was asking him very simple questions, and accused him of nothing. why should it have frustrated him so much to be asked for simple specifics?

"your scum because I think your posts seemed fake"
"okay, what in my posts seemed fake to you"
(no response)

that's town? really?

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Exaggeration and wilful missed reinterpretation of what was said with a hint of undermining as a whole.

I get that you didn't like 235, sure. though to me 235 is an accurate interpretation of what's gone on here

but no, I'm talking about *before*. you said it's natural for him to not want to answer questions in the face of fallacies and exaggerations. but, when I was asking him questions, when did I ever make a fallacy or exaggeration? is "can you go into more specifics about your case" a fallacy or an exaggeration? I had not yet voted him nor accused him of anything at that point, I was just asking questions

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and the more of this sorta thing. like my problem with this convo is thta it seems to be based entirely on wave trying to figure out some of fua's principles and core ideas of playing (when to defend yourself, is that scummy, how many votes is pressure etc) which like, are fine, but also they're not exactly conversing about alignments, they're conversing about game theory. now, not saying the two cannot be intersected, they absolutely can, but he seems to be doing it in a way that was purely game theory no actually alignment-related thoughts on them... doesn't help there was no follow up until fua got shot

you've made my own point for me here

why did fua have zero reaction to a vig saying they're going to shoot them, and then voting them? no response at all? not even wondering why? at all? when, if you're town, a vig shooting you here (or getting you eliminated) will literally lose us the game?

in a game where I'm specifically looking for people who are trying to fly under the radar and just make it to day 2, that's a big red flag in my eyes

so yes, I needed to understand this "why me = fry me" principle fua kept going on about, as it was their only explanation for what I saw as strange behavior. fua themself said, "you can check my past games to prove it". okay, I need to know what I'm checking for. because what I'd seen so far was inconsistent - first they're adamant that defending themself at all in any way shape or form is a bad move, then I cast a vote and suddenly they start defending themself heavily. sooo what am I supposed to be looking for in their past games? sometimes why me = fry me, sometimes they don't give a shit? like it literally made no sense

and the questioning was useful. their explanation for the switchup to defensiveness was that they were at E-3. their explanation for not reacting to stephen's vote was that they weren't online. after that was established, I said nothing. I had my suspicions, they had their defense. I wanted to see what the rest of the town's take on things would be. once other players get involved and take a stance on fua, that would've been, finally, ACTUAL CONTENT. not this endless stream of setup talk we've had so far. and from there I could've finally formed some stronger reads

what part of this seems so implausible to you?

it's also telling that your initial argument was that there was no thought process behind my questions. now that you're actually ISOing me, you know there's an obvious thought process, so your argument has changed to "well, there's a thought process, but it was all theory and not alignment related"

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have you read the above? of course I did not hard pressure, it was a flimsy read on page 3 of the game. I needed to understand more and get more content out of the rest of the players before making any stronger reads

and I apologize for the pronoun, honest mistake

I don't know what you mean by abuse tactic?

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gg I was town

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I feel bad for flea that their misread rate on Datisi remains at 100%

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meh. town was probably never winning this anyway. gg boys

The Cult team of Flea The Magician, the worst, and fua wins!

so who was the alpha cultist? the worst I'm assuming?