Micro 1047: Vengeball! -- Game Over!

[Bell]

Mine
VOTE: Hockyfan
It is known that all hockey fans are scum.

[Bell]

Just to spite you, I'm going to post exactly 9 times.

[Bell]

*lays down a stack of bills and a hamburger*

[Bell]

*pokes the thread with a stick* there are two spammers in this game. Koba and I.
Do not town bin koba.
He will beat you to death with a bad read.

[Bell]

Even if you’re scum, plz town bin me. I’m not picky.

[Bell]

I'm intensely sick today, and habe been sick the past few days but it got worse today

Covid tested myself today and it's negative tho

I guess I'll need to find your scum partner then.
Get well soon!

Who is this worm? I'm a bird. Birds eat worms.

[Bell]

Hi Dwlee.

[Bell]

Please just let me hunt Koba, lol. I obvtown when left alone and I don't want the stress.
But if this is your strategy for scum you, please, proceed. Then I can pretend I'm really cool when I vote you and you flip scum when in reality it was just omgus all along.
Well, not that there's anything to omgus yet.

[Bell]

I'm town whether I'm shoved against a wall or not tho.

[Bell]

I mean, I would drop my icecream if Dkkoba ever admitted to being caught for the right reasons. :3

[Bell]

dwlee u will never accuratrly read me on d1 i promise u that.

I say that since fmpov no matter your alignment you csn still be hunting for a scum here and i assume your read is genuine town or not

See, this is why I hate multiball.

[Bell]

I don't think I'm going to be able to differentiate between Koba town and Koba scum if I leave them in their comfort zone. I'm not sure how to poke them back though.
I guess I'll just keep going back and forth with them until I smell some bullshit or don't and then they can just...keep going.

[Bell]

*cringe*

[Bell]

I feel like you're asking me out to dinner when I just met you on the street and I'm not entirely sure I want to hear what you're selling when I'm not worried about you making content and I can, at least, fool myself into making an educated guess.

[Bell]

This is the part where, if I were scum I would try to get Koba limmed by attacking their general unlikability.
But since I'm not, all I can think about is if I come to the wrong conclusion and I push their lim I'll never hear the end of it in the dead thread/post game.
-[

[Bell]

They're an acquired taste.

[Bell]

This Dwlee feels different.
But I feel like Dwlee always feels different.

They're doing the "prove yourself or die cur" Which Koba is also doing, which is great for getting town read if you're scum.
Except it's kind of old hat at this point. Koba put more effort into it though. But in a creative way, so it doesn't feel anything other than forced but because they always force themselves it just looks the same.

But Dwlee, doesn't usually do that.

[Bell]

*pokes Dwlee with a stick*
What'ssup Dwlee? What sekrets are you hiding?


I would rather not kill Koba day 1 because they're fun to play with and given the activity of everyone else, if they die, I will literally not be able to solve for anyone and I will be really bored and frustrated.

[Bell]

Consider it a challenge. If you're not as good at scum as you think you are, then prove it by fooling me. I'll be first in line to murder you if I think you're scum.

Well, no I won't because I always take forever and am indecisive as fuck, but you get the idea.

Also, I'm vetoing Koba's plan. Unless they're scum in which case, this is a great plan. We should do it.

[Bell]

Why would you resist that. Why would you post that.
Also, I almost never read the set ups I'm in, so I was just nodding my head along and was like "that's true, scum will either kill them or me day 1 if either of us sufficiently annoy the scum team"
though, unlike me, I do think Koba is more vulnerable to getting miselimmed.

[Bell]

Might as well own my own laziness and ignorance since I'm stuck with those traits whether I like it or not. :3

[Bell]

Why don't you just engage with people in real time.

[Bell]

VOTE: Kcdaspot

[Bell]

Mine

[Bell]

I feel like you're acting fake kc. Your wording is unnatural, your thought process seems wrong given hockey's posts were from like page 1-3 and when the game actually got started with something AI(Dwlee, Koba chat/with a mix of bell) they weren't here. Because they were probably off somewhere living their hocky fan life.

[Bell]

and instead of reading any of that, you just drop a wall of fluff posts and ask for a wagon.

[Bell]

I'll look really cool if you're scum.
Please be scum, okay?

[Bell]

I don't believe it's possible for town to think other people are right.
They must be scum you guys.

[Bell]

Enchant, do you have some sort of contract in which you have to roll scum in every game I'm in?

[Bell]

The worst thing you can say is that Hockey cribbed off my 1-3 pages point which might be sowing seeds to get me miselimed as a partner later.

[Bell]

He seems a bit kill happy as scum.
Also, his posting looks the same.
Plus, reasons that aren't important, interesting, or useful.

[Bell]

Good response.

[Bell]

Thoughts on kda so far?

Also who are we still missing?

[Bell]

He seems conscientious under the cool kid mask.

[Bell]

I think they’re scum tho.
So my vote is gunna sit there until you folk catch up.

[Bell]

Excuse me, but all page tops are mine.
Please fix this.

[Bell]

I too am excited to try to sort bulge before inevitably failing for the thousandth time.

[Bell]

Lhf question to enchant. If scum are motivated to elim town as fast as possible why did you put hockey at E-2? Or are you just open wolfing?

[Bell]

Bleh, that question is so boring.
But let’s see.
Also enchant what is your native language if I may ask?

[Bell]

I’m here but heading out soon. Hi bulge

[Bell]

Dwlee is weird every game, but always weird in different ways. This game is no exception, they’re weird here.
Can’t tell if scum. Personally think they’re more engaged than usual. But they also aren’t hesitating as much as I would expect.

[Bell]

Nvm on the going out thing. Guess I’ll get covid tested tomorrow(routine).

Those sure are some unexplained reads. It’s early tho. Could you just give a lazy summary of reasoning for each?

[Bell]

Dwlee is weird every game, but always weird in different ways. This game is no exception, they’re weird here.
Can’t tell if scum. Personally think they’re more engaged than usual. But they also aren’t hesitating as much as I would expect.

This is a great example of what I don't like about your posts, they're extremely careful and caveated.

That’s me, yeah.

[Bell]

I can get tunneled. But for the most part, I’m a fence sitter yeah. I may argue that a player that people have cleared shouldn’t be, for example. But people were largely confused that I wasn’t confident they were scum, just that I thought they could be scum and that for the reasoning presented they shouldn’t be excluded from the elim pool.

[Bell]

K Kcda.

[Bell]

I ate him.

[Bell]

The bulge seems fine if a little inflexible. But no more than Dwlee has been so far.

[Bell]

It's going to depend very much on people's mindsets and ability to compartmentalize.
I don't have much experience with multiball because I avoid them. So I've been brain storming on how to differentiate. But I've been mostly stumped so far.

[Bell]

I've decided that Dwlee is probably town.
3 more to go.

[Bell]

inb4 I'm wrong. :<

[Bell]

I've decided that Dwlee is probably town.
3 more to go.

I get done with typing my last post arguing why someone is town and i have to turn around and say actively townhunting is dumb cuz poe is also dumb.

1. Why are you wasting time telling people how to play mafia ‘right?’
2. I can change my read whenever I’d like, it’s not set in stone.

Aw, work. :<
You’ll never see what 3 and 4 and 5 are now.

Such is life.

[Bell]

Also reminder about the rules. The new rule is meant to be respectful, I don’t personally expect you to be perfect about this right away, but put the effort in to check your posts before posting.

[Bell]

Cussing is fine to me. L word is not.

[Bell]

Actually, it would take too long to get into the nuances of what swears I’m cool with and which I’m not. In general, I’m not okay with gendered or racist cussing. But I am okay with the classics, shit, fuck, goddamnit, idiotic, stupid, bastard, and probably a few more that I can’t think of. Uh, this is a detail.

I have read the last two pages with interest. But mostly, it tilted gander slightly up, kcda stayed even, bulge is neutral, enchant went down but I mean, contextless posting is contentless, I don’t disagree with the low hanging fruit observation from kcd.

[Bell]

Okay, work now. *serious face*
See ya’ll later.

[Bell]

BELLL and KOBA both have FAKE PERSONALITIES
My brain not sure if SCUMZ or just get jollies from being COOOOL INTRENET DUDES??

I don't really consider this side of me as fake. /:
Is this your way of saying that you don't have a read on either of us?

[Bell]

The bulge seems fine if a little inflexible. But no more than Dwlee has been so far.

They're attacking anyone even remotely implying anything bad about hockey which is pinging me weird. Anyone know if they've played a lot together?

Quick skim says no, or once/twice max.

[Bell]

Do you normally try to sort people on tone?
Hockey doesn't sound like town or scum to me. I'm remarkably neutral on them, with one or two pings up and down.

[Bell]

No, that's pretty much how I behave IRL when it comes to decisions/evaluations/choices etc.
Big wallop of I'm not sures and maybes.

[Bell]

Plus in Mafia, everybody has experience with mostly being wrong. I'm surprised more people don't talk like me.

[Bell]

Vander, no response to me?

Bell, you really sure im the target today?

I'm glad about that vc cuz if i didnt wait i'd be on a wagon with bulge which im uncomfortable with.

No, I'm town, so of course I'm not sure we should eliminate you today.

[Bell]

I wonder if it says something that Enchant mentioned a coin flip.
It just occurred to me that there's a clean 50% chance of hitting scum this game which is actually pretty amazing when you think about it.

[Bell]

Ouch, I can confirm that I am *super* lonely.
Can confirm that Koba and I are both try hards. Though, I'm only a try hard as town to my detriment.
I heard Koba has a special someone, but who knows how that's going!

Okay so you have us both down as try hards and think we're playing like goons? Do I even want to know the rationale there?
Eh. Sure. Explain it please.

[Bell]

Ouch, I can confirm that I am *super* lonely.
Can confirm that Koba and I are both try hards. Though, I'm only a try hard as town to my detriment.
I heard Koba has a special someone, but who knows how that's going!

Okay so you have us both down as try hards and think we're playing like goons? Do I even want to know the rationale there?
Eh. Sure. Explain it please.

Do you think you're out of your scum range?

I can’t answer this.

@enchant how is that going?

[Bell]

No more inflexible.

[Bell]

I think associatives would work especially well here. But the rest gets muddled yeah. I don’t have much multiball experience tho.

[Bell]

They manage to be just stubborn enough that their backpedals don’t come off as obviously fake.

[Bell]

I like spot’s approach here. If I were a normie I would say, why doesn’t kcda just pm the mod instead of town tell in thread. Must be scum.

But I do that all the time as town. So, I’m like. Huh.

[Bell]

Or just read the rules.
But nobody reads the rules.

Wouldn’t be caught dead reading rules or an instruction manual.

I have to go to work. Sadface. Catch ya’ll later.

[Bell]

Fuck, I’m gunna be late. But it feels sort of dissonant that spot came in being a seriousface and then admits to not reading the rules instead of continuing to be a serious face by going out there and reading them(by the way, I have no idea what the answer is either, so please answer that question pav)

[Bell]

I have a secret Koba scum read btw.

[Bell]

Vander's point is so nuanced, I can't help but feel they're projecting, lol.

[Bell]

I've almost moved my vote to enchant like 2-3 times lhf be damned.They're intentionally being obtuse and unhelpful for no clear reason. so it just ends up with them being anti-town ~~~ scum.

[Bell]

I wanna see what the Worm does next.

[Bell]

Vander's point is so nuanced, I can't help but feel they're projecting, lol.

explain

They're explaining a very specific viewpoint that should be difficult to do without having a reference manual.

[Bell]

Enchant, why aren't you hunting at all? If you're town you aren't playing to win condition at all, which is annoying.

[Bell]

You're perspective taking from the pov of mafia in a super nuanced way. It's one thing to hypothesize another's perspective, but it's another to actually put that perspective taking into practice. I didn't even occur to me that scum might dismiss certain players as town because they can't be partnered with another player.

[Bell]

You're perspective taking from the pov of mafia in a super nuanced way. It's one thing to hypothesize another's perspective, but it's another to actually put that perspective taking into practice. I didn't even occur to me that scum might dismiss certain players as town because they can't be partnered with another player.

ngl i think u should step away from this line of reasoning its way too reachy

It was mostly a joke.

[Bell]

Then again, I'm not really sure how far down the rabbit hole you have to go to catch scum in multiball. So maybe, eh.
I've been ignoring the gf/thug argument because it's just not something you can differentiate. Or rather, I've simply given up on ever being able to accurately tell the difference.

[Bell]

Forget it.

VOTE: Enchant

[Bell]

Die a thousand deaths.

[Bell]

bell thoughts on Dr Worm?

Whatever you're seeing, I'm not.

[Bell]

So anyway i get killed for it, but Kuba is maf i think.

Shoot them then.

[Bell]

So anyway i get killed for it, but Kuba is maf i think.

FYI this isn’t a response of someone who has a vengekill.

[Bell]

I mean the timing would be worse if someone wasn't at E-1 because then they'd have more options on who to push.
But I feel like I'm missing the point.

[Bell]

@Enchant, to your question, not quite. I just think you'd be more vindictive and less threatened by the idea of being eliminated if you immediately got to shoot whoever you wanted lol.

[Bell]

Also yeah, I don't think I've played with town enchant that I can remember, but if this is town enchant there isn't much if any difference between their town and scum games.

...Have I really never played with town enchant?
/:

[Bell]

Kill lists help scum because they know who they need to bring to elo with them and who they should kill.

[Bell]

Curiosity is cool. But thinking about what you're doing makes you even cooler.

[Bell]

Yes and scum play dynamically, so they can choose the best strategy in the moment.
Giving them a game plan is not wise.

[Bell]

Well, unless you're enchant in which case, it honestly doesn't matter.
My reads won't change unless the players do by posting scummy or townie stuff.

RN, I would just shoot in the "not helping us win pile" and hope there's scum in it because we're screwed anyway if there's not. I can't carry the entire town myself.
But I never expect to be eliminated anyway, you'd only ever even know I'm town when I started threatening people with getting shot if I got wagon'd.
Well not really, I don't think it's much of a secret.

[Bell]

Nope.

[Bell]

Rather, I will regret it if they're town but this is actually how they act as scum, so I don't feel like this is wrong.

[Bell]

Would like to see a hammer soon.

[Bell]

Would like to see a hammer soon.

[Bell]

Taking time out of my lunch break to say. Unless you have something absolutely life changing to share about the game state, please vote enchant.

[Bell]

Holy shit, did not see dwlee coming.
Also the worst is the worst. I thought we missed because of their gif.

[Bell]

I've decided that Dwlee is probably town.
3 more to go.

inb4 I'm wrong. :<

Obligatory ego deflation.

[Bell]

Processing.

[Bell]

I wanna delude myself into arguing that bulge will be more readable later on, but nope. Never been the case for me.
I’ve waited to see what the worm will do and the answer appears to be: not much.

[Bell]

*open mic*
Koba, just asking for all our paranoid viewers out there but are you perhaps, a god fa-botherer?

[Bell]

if kdca is scum pocketing me rn then wp, also yeah i should have been wary of 12 years of experience at that point. but we do have 2 mislunches to be able to reeval.


btw if we DO hit a venge, they should holster if possible? so we can still shoot for the godfather here.

Is it wp? I flagged it, it's pretty obvious, since a more skeptical player would be like "Do I trust your trust in Dwlee's reads for a player and did Dwlee really think that, or did they just not wanna deal with Koba"

[Bell]

No, ty.

[Bell]

Also I don’t think kcda is abrasive.

[Bell]

maybe it do be bell and hockey with hockey GF hahaha

Shoulda pushed worm while I was there

Anyway, I think kcda is buddying you. That’s the biggest red flag I’ve seen this day phase.

[Bell]

I don’t even trust myself and I actually consider myself a decent meta player.
Present the argument.

[Bell]

I cringed when I called myself a decent meta player. *sigh*

[Bell]

maybe it do be bell and hockey with hockey GF hahaha

Shoulda pushed worm while I was there

Anyway, I think kcda is buddying you. That’s the biggest red flag I’ve seen this day phase.

I can see that. However Koba has also been towntelling for me all game as well, i mean look my reaction to their D1. Plus with their logic has been similar to mine this phase.

Objectively speaking, its hard not to look at the interactions as just raw buddying. all i can say is that I'm town AF, Koba town AF, Get on the damn wagon.

I recall you saying that town hunting was dumb.

[Bell]

@koba are you going to meta case hockey or not?

[Bell]

I believe the argument was that those against the enchant wagon must be town.

[Bell]

The premise being that scum don’t care who gets eliminated unless it’s them or their buddy, barring who they say they’re going to shoot.
Just based on numbers, at least 1 scum from the blue team had to have been on the wagon for it to go through. So Koba is at least half right. I usually don’t correct people’s reasoning because I’d be here all year if I did unless I feel super strongly about it.

[Bell]

There are clear flaws to the argument, for example, presumes that the scum team knew that enchant was scum. When pushing could have gotten them shot if they were wrong.

[Bell]

Actually I just can’t do numbers and in fact both scum could have been off the wagon.

[Bell]

if youre scum you would prefer to be shot than limmed me thinks

Pretty sure the preference is to both get a miselim and not get shot. You can weigh best and worst case scenarios.
But mostly I’m just waiting and wondering why you aren’t sharing the meta reasoning on hockey.

[Bell]

I was objecting to specifically asking about venge kills.
Not giving reads.

[Bell]

whatever Vanders just said was pretty good lol

, Bulge is probs someones GF here(one of my TRs probs but idrc)

What do you mean?

[Bell]

I'm sick.
Please kill me to end my suffering.

[Bell]

Fuuuuck

[Bell]

I can't focus at all. Been throwing up all day.

[Bell]

anyone have meta on dr worm? idc who the main is im talking experience with this particular gimmick

I have none. First time seeing this gimmick. 0 interest in stopping whoever gets limmed shooting them Or they get limmed them shooting Bulge.

[Bell]

Kcda is looking better, they're more motivated than they were when the game started. Though there might be some other reason for that.

[Bell]

Life is suffering.
Suffering is life.

Plz, stop yelling at me stomach.

[Bell]

VOTE: Hockeyfan

[Bell]

... i dont like that vote naked, can you elaborate on it when you can? mabbe whn you feelin better.

If someone keeps yelling from the roof tops “IT’S THAT GUY DUMDUM” eventually I’m going to give in.

[Bell]

I feel slightly better today! I haven’t thrown up since 2 PM. And my stomach isn’t screaming at me, it’s just poking at me with like a knife, but it’s a half-hearted jab.

[Bell]

... i dont like that vote naked, can you elaborate on it when you can? mabbe whn you feelin better.

If someone keeps yelling from the roof tops “IT’S THAT GUY DUMDUM” eventually I’m going to give in.

Well, actually this isn’t true. It depends how strongly I feel about a read. But I don’t feel that strongly. If I had I’d be pushing harder to murder someone else and probably get myself in trouble when I missed and then frantically try to fight my way out of it. It would be a pain and I don’t feel well.

Skip.

[Bell]

I was saying I would skip taking responsibility for my own lim which would probably be wrong and then get tons of shit for it and I'm going to skip that because I don't feel well.

You know like when you press x to skip a cutscene or dialogue.

@Koba, okay.

[Bell]

How do I read Not_mafia.

[Bell]

How many miselims do we have left

[Bell]

2.

3 if we hit the goon.

[Bell]

My stomach hurts

[Bell]

If I cased Koba would anyone actually listen

[Bell]

Why did i expect anything.

flag

[Bell]

Okay.
Dkkoba is scum because they wouldn't explain why they were voting Hockey until after they died. They're very focused on winning, but they're willing to engage others to get there. They didn't do that here. Which I think is slightly out of character for them.
Also, also.
No that's pretty much it. They kind of always powergame, but I don't want to have said nothing. Because that would make me sad and I don't want to be one of those people that just sees somebody post a lot and think "eh ifthey're scum I'll engage them later as we go kill, all the non-entities, kill, kill kill.
My stomach hurts.

[Bell]

Can't you just shoot someone.

[Bell]

If Koba gets limmed and doesn't shoot someone as town, I will actually laugh which may put me in the hospital right now.

[Bell]

Link it.

[Bell]

Eh.

[Bell]

Eh.

[Bell]

Those aren't real explanations, it's all backloaded behind faulty premises and refusal to share.
Which isn't unusual for you.
What is weird thoughis if the "I don't trust town to win this without at least one scum dead" thing, because that's completely alien to a town mindset with a vig shot and your personality.
You'll insist that other people shouldn't shoot, but I really doubt you'd think that as town, you shouldn't shoot anyone if you get flipped.

[Bell]

My stomach still hurts.
Please, make it stop. Why it's been four fucking days.

[Bell]

I don’t even trust myself and I actually consider myself a decent meta player.
Present the argument.

@koba are you going to meta case hockey or not?

if youre scum you would prefer to be shot than limmed me thinks

Pretty sure the preference is to both get a miselim and not get shot. You can weigh best and worst case scenarios.
But mostly I’m just waiting and wondering why you aren’t sharing the meta reasoning on hockey.

[Bell]

100.1fever. Woo. 4 days off fuck yeah! I hate myself.

Sure thing Koba you won the argument. Eliminate me.

[Bell]

No go for it.
I’m good.

Fun fact, N_M will auto hammer if you put someone at E-1.

[Bell]

I’d self vote but I banned myself from doing that, because of game losing moves that some people *cough Koba* *cough* do when they don’t get their way.
I’m happy to shoot someone who I think is scum.

[Bell]

And worst comes to worst I can at least kill someone who would push a sick dude who hates being pushed when he’s feeling fine.

*sweats*
Can I go now.

[Bell]

He only hammers his null reads and below

Oh. That’s cool

[Bell]

Well, because when I joined this game I received a role pm telling me I was town.

[Bell]

no one but me really cared to pay attention to how nm plays so like im basicslly a lowkey expert on reading nm bc everyone assumes nm just does gimmicks and thats it which is kinda rude

You’re like Jesus. Good for you, salvaging the wretched that just want to graze on grass in a ranch and play harvest moon or something.

I would like to do this some day.

[Bell]

Can I go now.
I really don’t want to get in a toxic 1v1 right now. But I am easily baited.

[Bell]

Oh fuck. Nvm. I’m out.

[Bell]

Oh that’s the stuff. Only I would be stupid enough to post just before throwing up.
I made it though and that’s what matters.

[Bell]

I’m town tho.
Also. I think I need a break 3am diarrhea and even changing position in bed would result in dry heaving and stomach pain.

[Bell]

This has to do with bells meta

If you're waiting for me to town case myself in a multiball game, that's not happening until I hit scum from the other team. I usually don't town case myself anyway. That was a new behavior that I only recently started doing and absolutely nobody ever responded or acknowledged my self-casing.

[Bell]

I'm town regardless of what you think. You can pressure me forever, but that's not changing and, more likely than not I'm going to shoot you for your comment about not wrting to leave it to the rest of the town.
But I don't think I'm the elimination anyway.

Also, you've been inconsistent with the pressure you insisted you'd place on me until I town told. You pushed Hockey instead.

[Bell]

Woohoo. I woke up to being dead after a nap!

[Bell]

gg all! Sorry Worm.

[Bell]

tyty. I will continue to suck less at scum one step at a time.

[Bell]

Oh wow, we lost 5 minutes ago. lol.

[Bell]

tyty. I will continue to suck less at scum one step at a time.

You were mostly just caught in PoE, the other scumteam getting eliminated in full Day 1 made it almost impossible for you

That was a dead serious post, lol.

Thanks for the game again. Good job modding Pavowski.

[Bell]

VENGEBALL