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Post #65 (isolation #2) » Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:53 pm
Postby Radical Rat »
In post 61, ShadowGirl wrote:I'm going to copy and paste the text from the RR image so that we can all refer to it and not have to click the link a million times.
Radical Rat
What's the point of even saying something like this? You don't actually give the claim that allegedly ICs you, you acknowledge that Mafia have fakeclaims that could negate it, so why bring it up at all?
Thank you for doing this. I'd intended to, but got busy. And now it's in my ISO, albeit out of order.
Anyway...
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #66 (isolation #3) » Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:59 pm
Postby Radical Rat »
I am in fact NOT rolefishing here. You (koopashell) proclaimed yourself an IC but gave no elaboration. And note that my question was not "What is your role then?" but rather "Why did you say this?"
If you're Town, this is bad because you're just painting a target on your back for nightkills without actually getting the benefit of being, y'know. An IC.
If you're scum, then you don't have to worry about the nightkill, and maybe you get some free townreads for pretending to say something meaningful.
So yeah, I know which way I lean here, and your OMGUS really isn't helping change my mind.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #71 (isolation #5) » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:22 pm
Postby Radical Rat »
In post 69, koopashell wrote:As for the difference between "what is your flavor then?" and "why did you say this" there is no effective difference, so please spare me the overexplainations of how it is "technically" not the same thing. You wanted me to claim my flavor and I am refusing to.
I really didn't. I wanted to know why you felt like saying things you had no intention of doing anything with. You either had a reason or you didn't, and right now it sure seems like the answer is that you didn't.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #76 (isolation #7) » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:33 pm
Postby Radical Rat »
In post 72, koopashell wrote:Something in your last post felt villagery, however, even though it is so convoluted and wrong. Feels more you think you got a case of the "I want to be wright", but really you are just, as I mentioned in my last post, taking a shortcut that does not ever work consistently.
You have never played with me - you should perhaps assume good faith that the action I am doing, if it can be determined as NAI, is indeed, NAI. In fact, I think many would actually improve their townplay if they didn't attack a claim just for the sake of attacking someone claiming such as in the manner I did Just a thought.
If I did this for every sketchy action with a feasible NAI explanation I'd never push anyone for anything. Gotta start somewhere.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #79 (isolation #8) » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:46 pm
Postby Radical Rat »
The issue I have isn't so much that it's scummy on the face of it, but rather just that I can't really think of a reason Town player would open with a pseudo-claim like that, but I can imagine a scum player thinking the early towncred is worth the restriction later. Especially if you don't give details and can make plausible excuses why your self-resolution didn't happen.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #104 (isolation #9) » Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:33 pm
Postby Radical Rat »
In post 101, ShadowGirl wrote:Radical Rat, Not Known15
The Bulge, Gamma Emerald, Save the Dragons,
Not_Mafia (I have no experience with this person so idk about the self vote; they haven't done any further weighing in), koopashell, Kcdaspot (just currently not seeing much reads going on/productive talk)
Why is NK15 so high for you?
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #117 (isolation #10) » Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:44 am
Postby Radical Rat »
UNVOTE:
Hopefully some kind of protective role exists, because I would very much like for you to be able to actually use that desperado if it's true. And if it's not true, that will indeed become self-evident.
VOTE: Not_Mafia
I would've expected at least SOMETHING from him by now
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
You fished yourself, bud. There was no reason for you to say anything about your role until you intended to use it. It was weird that you did, and while I do regret that a fullclaim was the result of this whole kerfuffle, I don't regret pointing out that weirdness.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #133 (isolation #12) » Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:04 am
Postby Radical Rat »
I think this is a discussion that would probably be better to have in the postgame. Unless you still think koopashell could be scum gambiting hard here, but judging by your unvote I don't think that's the case.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #194 (isolation #13) » Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:23 am
Postby Radical Rat »
VOTE: Not Known 15
Been thinking on it for a while, and that supposition that N_M not constantly refreshing the page to drop hammers in an instant was indicative of an StD/N_M scumteam... I don't like it, not one bit.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #251 (isolation #16) » Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:13 am
Postby Radical Rat »
The problem is if koopashell's Town, his claim is both easily confirmable and very powerful. Either he does tonight from the scumkill, or we eliminate him after he fails to actually deliver on his claim.
For now, it's better to leave it be.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #279 (isolation #17) » Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:11 pm
Postby Radical Rat »
In post 276, ShadowGirl wrote:When I say that's not how I do things = I mean that I don't play as E-1 being just an invitation to quickhammer someone with no claim. I don't see what is pro-town about not asking for a claim before hammering.
Not_Mafia's whole schtick is lolhammering wherever possible, regardless of alignment. Which is why E-1 is particularly dangerous territory this game.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
Conflicted. I mentioned earlier I believed her thought process, but the vote on you was really bad. I do believe her frustration with you is genuine, and that COULD lead to Town making bad decisions... Or it could be scum just not caring that eliminating you now leaves Town in a worse position, because well. That'd be scum's goal right? And then just using the frustration as an excuse. I don't know which right now.
Backing off after no one went with it is probably NAI, because could be Town that realizes the mistake, or scum backpedaling when it didn't take.
So yeah, probably either her or NK15 today would be my preference.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #295 (isolation #20) » Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:14 am
Postby Radical Rat »
So I 100% disagree with kcda's logic there, not least because as already noted scum have valid fakeclaims available...
But I do take issue with you calling that a crumb. "A character in this game has a tangential relation to a different character in a different game that is actually who I am" feels like you're just trying to squeeze something in to make it fit...
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
Aye, until the added sentence in the post below.
That one is defensive and very image-conscious. That's scummy.
The added sentence in question was just me saying I wasn't going to force everyone to read objection.lol posts all game. I find it really weird to focus on that instead of the Actual Content.
I wonder if that was intentional...
If std flips scum this one is next.
And then I've already talked about this bit, but... a failed quickhammer attempt, plus shading N_M for not being there right that second... It's a real bad look, to say the least, overconfidence or not.
The stuff in between looks alright, makes some decent points that I agree with, but it's way overshadowed by the quickhammer thing in my mind.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #300 (isolation #22) » Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:29 am
Postby Radical Rat »
I had a game with him as scum fairly recently, but I don't really think the situation is applicable. Basically he just defended his buddy a little too hard a little too early, and got called on it quickly.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #303 (isolation #23) » Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:38 am
Postby Radical Rat »
Like I said, I don't think the situation is really applicable, and this isn't a meta read.
And he very well could still be Town, but well. At the moment, I think ShadowGirl and NK15 are on roughly the same level, and no one else is approaching that.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #309 (isolation #27) » Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:58 am
Postby Radical Rat »
That actually does make the crumb look a bit better, because then putting emphasis on the detective aspect isn't just a weird reach to connect characters...
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #318 (isolation #30) » Fri Apr 08, 2022 5:22 am
Postby Radical Rat »
Setup spec does often get incorrectly (or correctly in some cases) labelled as rolefishing, and I don't really see how you're getting that she thought she was the only PR out of that.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #345 (isolation #34) » Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:54 am
Postby Radical Rat »
koopashell wrote:Why did you allow ShadowGirl to die there?
What were your thoughts there?
I thought your posts didn't really make sense, but ShadowGirl's play was definitely weird as well, and the Detective claim seemed awfully convenient. I would have preferred to eliminate NK15 and let you desperado ShadowGirl instead, but you and others had him as a strong townread, so I knew support wouldn't be there for that, and deadline was getting close, so I figured it'd be best to just trust that you knew what you were talking about.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
In post 201, koopashell wrote:VOTE: ShadowGirl
Not gonna lie, I wanna kill this.
I thought about this for a bit and this is the wolfiest slot in the game so far. I'll be happy to ellaborate on this when I'm not phoneposting.
I don't know in how many different combinations of words I can say that at the time it felt sketchy that you invited conversation by preemptively claiming and then got very defensive and wanted everyone to stop talking about your claim by just calling their play trash when it's natural that people were going to discuss it since that was the most significant thing happening in the RVS stage?? I don't know if you're just unable to see outside of your own perspective of how your actions could be perceived from others. As I said already, I'm fine to leave you be with your claim for now since in time we'll see how it pans out.
I wonder if that was intentional...
If std flips scum this one is next.
Not loving setting up eliminations like this or inviting a quickhammer with your vote - but I don't have any meta experience with Not Mafia that if it's some super scum tell that ? they didn't quickhammer, if your attempt was simply to bait them for that tell?
I don't understand why STD was nearly quick eliminated when there's other people who have contributed even less than they have at that point??
VOTE: Kcdaspot I would love to see some more content from this slot since there's only really been one post talking about their reads.
In post 54, koopashell wrote:From my experience with host provided fake claims - they usually are not actually good, so when we do get to a massclaim stage, I do feel we can sus out whoever is mafia via their claim
I mentioned wolf fakeclaims because objectively, people should think that my flavor is one that scum should not be able to receive
, and thus why my role is fully resolvable at night 2.
So you have a flavour claim that is totally safe but mafia fake claims will be "too safe"? So basically no one should be entirely safe due to flavour claims?
I pinged these two posts as scummy earlier, and this is even more feeling like a scum slip now because it feels like a confident take about the scum fakeclaims. These are posts that you also never addressed when I prodded you on them.
In post 223, koopashell wrote:I'm not here to hold people's hands though. I'm not going to support my statement unless it is in the face of a counter statement.
Stop pestering me.
In post 63, koopashell wrote:Have I acted in a way where I am simply sitting back and abusing that fact to do nothing? That is how it feels like you are framing it.
You are doing exactly what you said that
you were not going to do
, which I already called you out on page 3 for thinking that you were going for a town pass, that you believe you can cruise through without giving any of your reads. I think you got frustrated that your claim didn't give you the pass you thought it did and that everyone was thinking it was scummy and was trying to dig into it, which resulted in your full claim (which no one asked for), to get everyone off your back. And now you're trying to play it off that it's an "essential clear", which it's not. I don't have faith that you are playing a pro-town game. VOTE: koopashell
My read for you leans town, particularly with your interaction with STD, since I think that if you were have been scum that you might have pushed them harder rather than allowing them time to develop more reads. In general you seem to be asking questions and trying to engage with other players. But I am trying to figure out what koopashell's town shell forever for sure town read of you means, as whether that's +partner equity or if they're trying to pocket you, given the weird interaction that ? you thought you had previously played with them.
In post 273, ShadowGirl wrote:I mean I'd love to develop more reads on people, but there's players who basically briefly showed up in the early game but are essentially lurking now, like Not Mafia and The Bulge, so there's very little content to even go over. So yeah, it does feel like hitting my head against a brick wall at the moment because there's only a few of us being active and we keep going around the same topics because that's what there is to go on.
I also agree that kcdaspot's recent activity seem townie as there's a transparent development of thoughts over time. And it would have been super easy for them to put me at E-1 and force a claim from me.
VOTE: The Bulge as the early spat with koopa feels like an early attempt to appear like doing active scumhunting and despite promises to re-engage, I haven't see any content from them since then.
In post 9, koopashell wrote:I think I'm effectively an IC based on my claim even though, yee, mafia have fakeclaims.
I have a novice role that is pretty weak too so
I assume this is role madness
.
This feels a bit like a subtle fish too looking for confirmation...?
I'm just going to ignore you from now because if they're only thing they're going to do is be personally condescending to me and just throw sentences out that show that you're not even reading my posts then I don't know what's the point of talking to you.
This is the second that you've baited for a hammer from NM without putting anything about your read on this person.
I think you called out NM for not quickhammering because you were disappointed that they didn't do so and wanted to ensure/force that they did it the next time the opportunity happened.
I wonder if that was intentional...
If std flips scum this one is next.
Based on what?
Not Mafia was obviously here, yet only reacted after a significant amount of time. If not mafia is scum with std intentional not hammering immediately is the only way for them to win, unless they survive.
VOTE: Not Known 15
Between the two of them, they've voted every player in the game........ Except for each other.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
In post 309, Radical Rat wrote:That actually does make the crumb look a bit better, because then putting emphasis on the detective aspect isn't just a weird reach to connect characters...
i hate this.
i just dislike this post like how people dislike biting into raw onions.
RR recents are a bit towny but this... it reads as a scum defending scum.
If I'm scum, and I know SG is going to flip red, why do I say this here? It's clear at this point that ShadowGirl's getting eliminated with or without me, so if I'm trying to actually prevent that wavering on my own push isn't going to accomplish anything. If I'm trying to bus her, then all the waffling and uncertainty doesn't help there either, as it would be much easier to have just... not unvoted, and let the hammer happen.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #368 (isolation #40) » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:04 pm
Postby Radical Rat »
But if that were the case I would have actually tried to defend her from other people's pushes instead of just questioning my own conviction and asking for clarification on koopashell's posts. I also could have just continued to waffle until someone else either voted or didn't show up in time for deadline.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
Conflicted. I mentioned earlier I believed her thought process, but the vote on you was really bad. I do believe her frustration with you is genuine, and that COULD lead to Town making bad decisions... Or it could be scum just not caring that eliminating you now leaves Town in a worse position, because well. That'd be scum's goal right? And then just using the frustration as an excuse. I don't know which right now.
Backing off after no one went with it is probably NAI, because could be Town that realizes the mistake, or scum backpedaling when it didn't take.
the softest defense in the history of the world. you were LOOKING for a reason to get off this. you were probably screaming at her in the scumtopic.
That was my reasoning FOR voting her though
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #375 (isolation #42) » Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:20 pm
Postby Radical Rat »
I think StD or Kcdaspot are both solid targets.
If you must shoot me, then so be it, but it'd be an unnecessary death, and a waste of both of our abilities, so like. Literally anyone else would be a better choice, even if they happen to be Town.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #377 (isolation #43) » Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:29 pm
Postby Radical Rat »
OMGUS, but also it does feel like their arguments are in bad faith here. Like they've made up their mind I'm scum and are squeezing my posts in to fit that instead of the reverse.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
In post 201, koopashell wrote:VOTE: ShadowGirl
Not gonna lie, I wanna kill this.
I thought about this for a bit and this is the wolfiest slot in the game so far. I'll be happy to ellaborate on this when I'm not phoneposting.
I don't know in how many different combinations of words I can say that at the time it felt sketchy that you invited conversation by preemptively claiming and then got very defensive and wanted everyone to stop talking about your claim by just calling their play trash when it's natural that people were going to discuss it since that was the most significant thing happening in the RVS stage?? I don't know if you're just unable to see outside of your own perspective of how your actions could be perceived from others. As I said already, I'm fine to leave you be with your claim for now since in time we'll see how it pans out.
I wonder if that was intentional...
If std flips scum this one is next.
Not loving setting up eliminations like this or inviting a quickhammer with your vote - but I don't have any meta experience with Not Mafia that if it's some super scum tell that ? they didn't quickhammer, if your attempt was simply to bait them for that tell?
I don't understand why STD was nearly quick eliminated when there's other people who have contributed even less than they have at that point??
VOTE: Kcdaspot I would love to see some more content from this slot since there's only really been one post talking about their reads.
In post 54, koopashell wrote:From my experience with host provided fake claims - they usually are not actually good, so when we do get to a massclaim stage, I do feel we can sus out whoever is mafia via their claim
I mentioned wolf fakeclaims because objectively, people should think that my flavor is one that scum should not be able to receive
, and thus why my role is fully resolvable at night 2.
So you have a flavour claim that is totally safe but mafia fake claims will be "too safe"? So basically no one should be entirely safe due to flavour claims?
I pinged these two posts as scummy earlier, and this is even more feeling like a scum slip now because it feels like a confident take about the scum fakeclaims. These are posts that you also never addressed when I prodded you on them.
In post 223, koopashell wrote:I'm not here to hold people's hands though. I'm not going to support my statement unless it is in the face of a counter statement.
Stop pestering me.
In post 63, koopashell wrote:Have I acted in a way where I am simply sitting back and abusing that fact to do nothing? That is how it feels like you are framing it.
You are doing exactly what you said that
you were not going to do
, which I already called you out on page 3 for thinking that you were going for a town pass, that you believe you can cruise through without giving any of your reads. I think you got frustrated that your claim didn't give you the pass you thought it did and that everyone was thinking it was scummy and was trying to dig into it, which resulted in your full claim (which no one asked for), to get everyone off your back. And now you're trying to play it off that it's an "essential clear", which it's not. I don't have faith that you are playing a pro-town game. VOTE: koopashell
My read for you leans town, particularly with your interaction with STD, since I think that if you were have been scum that you might have pushed them harder rather than allowing them time to develop more reads. In general you seem to be asking questions and trying to engage with other players. But I am trying to figure out what koopashell's town shell forever for sure town read of you means, as whether that's +partner equity or if they're trying to pocket you, given the weird interaction that ? you thought you had previously played with them.
In post 273, ShadowGirl wrote:I mean I'd love to develop more reads on people, but there's players who basically briefly showed up in the early game but are essentially lurking now, like Not Mafia and The Bulge, so there's very little content to even go over. So yeah, it does feel like hitting my head against a brick wall at the moment because there's only a few of us being active and we keep going around the same topics because that's what there is to go on.
I also agree that kcdaspot's recent activity seem townie as there's a transparent development of thoughts over time. And it would have been super easy for them to put me at E-1 and force a claim from me.
VOTE: The Bulge as the early spat with koopa feels like an early attempt to appear like doing active scumhunting and despite promises to re-engage, I haven't see any content from them since then.
In post 9, koopashell wrote:I think I'm effectively an IC based on my claim even though, yee, mafia have fakeclaims.
I have a novice role that is pretty weak too so
I assume this is role madness
.
This feels a bit like a subtle fish too looking for confirmation...?
I'm just going to ignore you from now because if they're only thing they're going to do is be personally condescending to me and just throw sentences out that show that you're not even reading my posts then I don't know what's the point of talking to you.
This is the second that you've baited for a hammer from NM without putting anything about your read on this person.
I think you called out NM for not quickhammering because you were disappointed that they didn't do so and wanted to ensure/force that they did it the next time the opportunity happened.
I wonder if that was intentional...
If std flips scum this one is next.
Based on what?
Not Mafia was obviously here, yet only reacted after a significant amount of time. If not mafia is scum with std intentional not hammering immediately is the only way for them to win, unless they survive.
VOTE: Not Known 15
Between the two of them, they've voted every player in the game........ Except for each other.
On top of just generally not contributing much to the game
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #384 (isolation #45) » Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:13 pm
Postby Radical Rat »
I figured bussing was probably unlikely here, so I looked for who was off-wagon, which was Bulge/StD/Kcda. Kcda did give intent though, unfortunately now impossible to know if they'd have followed through, but eh. Bulge wasn't really there for most of the latter half of the Day at all, so not much to read into, and then StD was left, and I was curious about voting patterns, so I checked and yeah they covered the whole list except themselves. I doubt it was done on purpose, but if they never had a reason to bus each other, then they probably weren't going to randomly vote each other so... yeah.
I know it's not much, but nothing else really sticks out at me the same way
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #394 (isolation #46) » Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:31 am
Postby Radical Rat »
In post 385, koopashell wrote:Can you do a more detailed case on a person you think is wolf, RR?
Well, I did just try to case both StD and Kcda... Kcda I actually think is probably Town again, and StD just... Doesn't have the content for a big proper case.
No one else has really pinged me at all, aside from you D1, but you're pretty clearly Town now, so.
I don't really have much else, sorry
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #412 (isolation #51) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:46 am
Postby Radical Rat »
Well, I may not get another chance to post tonight, and enough people have expressed interest in voting me that I'm gonna go ahead and claim.
Mike Meekins, Friendly Neighbor here. I know the flavor doesn't mean much when scum have free fakeclaims, but I did choose Meekins for my objection.lol post on purpose.
Friendly Neighbor is also why I said koopashell shooting me wastes our roles. If he misses, his target becomes conftown, at the cost of his own life. Which can potentially be worth it, but since I can already confirm myself... It's a waste to use it on me. Unfortunately, my target last night was NK15 because I expected koopashell to get nightkilled, and well... Clearly things didn't go as expected.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #440 (isolation #55) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:33 am
Postby Radical Rat »
Fun fact! This is actually the second time in recent history I've been an easily verifiable Town PR, and still managed to get myself killed for it! Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug.
Though at least this time I didn't actually die...
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
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Post #516 (isolation #56) » Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:22 pm
Postby Radical Rat »
I still think it's StD/Norwee. I've done the ISOs, I've re-read the pages, and I townread basically everyone else.
I'd also go for N_M but that's like. Half policy, and I don't really want to do a policy lim, but it's better than nothing if we can't agree on anything else.
Maybe the real Mafia was the friends we made along the way
